From robinquilter at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 20:57:00 2009
From: robinquilter at gmail.com (Robin Grube)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 20:57:00 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Missing Records
Message-ID: <d61d61810910012057k5f6b1506y60695072240a848f@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Bill Remus, for your comments on the St. Petersburg Kiev and
Volhynia records. I'm comparatively new for researching this area, and I
naively thought that with the on-line availability from the Mormons of these
records, it would be a piece of cake to find my relatives from near Kiev.
Ha! I did find that one year that was missing at first glance was actually
included in another year. All of you, what would be your recommendation for
further searching? Order microfilm copies? Wait for sggee listings? I am
looking for records circa 1870 for the Herrmann family.
Thanks, Robin Grube


----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:45:39 -1000
> From: William Remus <remus at hawaii.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] missing village records in Volhynia
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <fc35c7bf30f83.4ac36103 at hawaii.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Yes, the St Petersburg records we normally look at do not completely record
> the births, marriages, and deaths in Volhynia. Here are several reasons
>
> 1 The St Petersburg archives do not have every year's records available. In
> other words there are years missing for Volhynia and Kiev.  For Kiev, the
> original churchbook is in the Ukraine state archives so the missing years
> could eventually be filled in. For parishes in Volhynia, I am not certain
> the missing years are available.
> 2. When I compare the Berestovitz (Volhynia) chapel book with the St
> Petersburg archive records, I notice some of the records from the chapel
> book are not listed in the St Petersburg archive records. Sometimes
> individual records are missing and sometimes a year of chapel book records
> are missing.
> 3 The parish lines were fluid so Volhynia villages might appear in the Kiev
> records or vice versa.
> 4 Sometimes the village names were not shown in the Volhynia and Kiev
> records or listed for the Polish or Ukrainian name of the village. For
> example Romansdorf in Kiev Parish appears also as Doliwa.
>
> SGGEE website contains information on available chapel books that have been
> filmed by the Mormons. I have no idea if there are more chapel books
> unfilmed still in the Ukainain or Polish archives.
>
> regards Bill Remus
> ********************************************************************
> William Remus
> Emeritus Professor of Information Technology Management
> 2404 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96822
> Telephone: 808-956-7608   Fax: 808-956-9889
> For Information about Bill Remus, go to his website
> http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/
> ********************************************************************
>
>


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Fri Oct  2 08:33:12 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:33:12 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Missing Records
In-Reply-To: <d61d61810910012057k5f6b1506y60695072240a848f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d61d61810910012057k5f6b1506y60695072240a848f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC61D38.8010402@warnerengineering.com>

Robin,

Since many people on this list have access to various databases, you 
really need to be more specific in who you are looking for.  For 
instance, in the SGGEE Master Pedigree Database (MPD), there are 615 
Herman or Hermann records, and another 269 Herrmann records.

Gary Warner


Robin Grube wrote:
> Thanks, Bill Remus, for your comments on the St. Petersburg Kiev and
> Volhynia records. I'm comparatively new for researching this area, and I
> naively thought that with the on-line availability from the Mormons of these
> records, it would be a piece of cake to find my relatives from near Kiev.
> Ha! I did find that one year that was missing at first glance was actually
> included in another year. All of you, what would be your recommendation for
> further searching? Order microfilm copies? Wait for sggee listings? I am
> looking for records circa 1870 for the Herrmann family.
> Thanks, Robin Grube
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:45:39 -1000
>> From: William Remus <remus at hawaii.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] missing village records in Volhynia
>> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>> Message-ID: <fc35c7bf30f83.4ac36103 at hawaii.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Yes, the St Petersburg records we normally look at do not completely record
>> the births, marriages, and deaths in Volhynia. Here are several reasons
>>
>> 1 The St Petersburg archives do not have every year's records available. In
>> other words there are years missing for Volhynia and Kiev.  For Kiev, the
>> original churchbook is in the Ukraine state archives so the missing years
>> could eventually be filled in. For parishes in Volhynia, I am not certain
>> the missing years are available.
>> 2. When I compare the Berestovitz (Volhynia) chapel book with the St
>> Petersburg archive records, I notice some of the records from the chapel
>> book are not listed in the St Petersburg archive records. Sometimes
>> individual records are missing and sometimes a year of chapel book records
>> are missing.
>> 3 The parish lines were fluid so Volhynia villages might appear in the Kiev
>> records or vice versa.
>> 4 Sometimes the village names were not shown in the Volhynia and Kiev
>> records or listed for the Polish or Ukrainian name of the village. For
>> example Romansdorf in Kiev Parish appears also as Doliwa.
>>
>> SGGEE website contains information on available chapel books that have been
>> filmed by the Mormons. I have no idea if there are more chapel books
>> unfilmed still in the Ukainain or Polish archives.
>>
>> regards Bill Remus
>> ********************************************************************
>> William Remus
>> Emeritus Professor of Information Technology Management
>> 2404 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96822
>> Telephone: 808-956-7608   Fax: 808-956-9889
>> For Information about Bill Remus, go to his website
>> http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/
>> ********************************************************************
>>
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Sun Oct  4 12:06:41 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:06:41 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fragment: churchrecord Warsaw, evang,
	1763-1775
References: <d61d61810910012057k5f6b1506y60695072240a848f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AC61D38.8010402@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <000e01ca4525$d03d8680$f800a8c0@end2000>

Hello list-members,

the states-archive at Warsaw/Poland has published some fragment of a 
church-record of the evang. church: records of deaths and funerals Warsaw 
area 1763 - 1775.
There are some indications to origin, for example Saxonia ...

http://dziedzictwo.polska.pl/katalog/skarb,Ksiega_zgonow_i_oplat_wnoszonych_za_pogrzeby_ewangelickie_z_okresu_od_1_I_1763_do_27_IV_1775,gid,386400,cid,1074.htm

Good luck
Hannes Werner
Germany




From fenenga at connpoint.net  Sun Oct  4 15:57:42 2009
From: fenenga at connpoint.net (fenenga@connpoint.net)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 15:57:42 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,
	Issue 2
Message-ID: <54039.1254697062@connpoint.net>

  

	are there compiled records for the Volhynian area? or are the church
records still seperate and difficult to view? I keep hoping that the
records will become easy to scan as all I have for my great
grandfather's place of birth is Russian Poland, which has me assuming
Volhynia, but the bounderies of Russian Poland are not so defined as
that, are they? 

	Cornelia

From ra_stein at telus.net  Sun Oct  4 16:23:43 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 17:23:43 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Poland
In-Reply-To: <54039.1254697062@connpoint.net>
References: <54039.1254697062@connpoint.net>
Message-ID: <B9FCB26BEECA47D9BA1543DAC62077C6@RichardPC>

Cornelia,
Since your great grandfather was probably born in the 1800's, Russian Poland 
(also called Congress Poland) included today's central, southern, and 
eastern Poland - as far east as the Bug River.  It is a large area with 
100's of villages where Germans lived, so you will somehow have to find more 
detail about where your great grandfather was born.  Until WW I, Volhynia 
(southeast of present Poland) was a separate province of Russia.

If you give more information, such as his name, his wife, parents, children, 
time period, then perhaps someone on the list may be able to help.

Dick Stein
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <fenenga at connpoint.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,Issue 
2


>
>
> are there compiled records for the Volhynian area? or are the church
> records still seperate and difficult to view? I keep hoping that the
> records will become easy to scan as all I have for my great
> grandfather's place of birth is Russian Poland, which has me assuming
> Volhynia, but the bounderies of Russian Poland are not so defined as
> that, are they?
>
> Cornelia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 



From ewmeyers at telus.net  Sun Oct  4 16:56:39 2009
From: ewmeyers at telus.net (Elvin & Sheilagh)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 16:56:39 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Wandering Volhynians Newsletter
Message-ID: <70311DF053304D029A9C7014EB29E38B@Meyers>

Hello Carol Jones,

I can't find your email address and my FHC is willing to photocopy those 
newsletters for you. Please email me at ewmeyers at telus.net, so we can start 
over without bothering anyone else.

Elvin Meyers 



From fenenga at connpoint.net  Sun Oct  4 18:05:14 2009
From: fenenga at connpoint.net (fenenga@connpoint.net)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:05:14 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Poland
Message-ID: <56487.1254704714@connpoint.net>


Thank you, Richard, 

	as far as Russian and Polish research is concerned, I'm pretty new,
though I've been researching for 20 years on less confusing branches
of the tree. I have lots to learn about this branch of the tree, and
it's proving very elusive. 

	Charles Wagner, son of Anton and Thecla 

	b. abt 1855 Russia/Poland (depends on record) 

	unfortunately, that's as far as I've got. death record and burial
elude me. his marriage record is where I got most of my information
from. his marriage application eludes me, and may no longer exist, I
don't know. he's not in any census and I can't find his original
immigration or naturalization. I'm on the pacific coast, so cannot
roll up my sleeves and dig into the archives like I need to. I'm at a
loss at this point. 

	here's my timeline for him, which includes all I've found on him
over the past 20 years; 

	abt 1855-1857 born in either Poland or Russia, father Anton, mother
Thekla
 said to have been raised in England-nothing found in English census
records
 bef 1883 arrived in America-states he is a US Citizen in 1883
 Jun 1883 arrived in New York from Liverpool, England on the ship
Ethiopia
 Oct 4 1883 married in Boston, MA to Annie McDonald her father Alan,
mother Sarah
 Aug 1884 on the ship Katherine J. Ireland-filed a claim against
Master and first mate for abuse.
 1885 resided 46 Fayette, Boston, MA
 1886 resided 46 Fayette, Boston, MA
 May 3 1886 son Allan b. in Boston, MA (only child by Annie)
 1887 possibly living at 6 Grenville place-Mrs. Annie Wagner (may be
someone else)
 1888/1889 resided 434 Chelsea in East Boston
 1888/1889 possibly living at 6 Grenville place-Mrs. Annie Wagner
(may be someone else)
 1889 sailed on Stephen G. Loud, H. C. Sibley, bark Sarah-Mate
(otherwise just a sailor)
 Apr 17, 1889 wrote from Fallriver, MA
 May 12, 1889 wrote from Brunswick, NS
 Jun 4 & 5, 1889 wrote from Boston, MA
 Jun 7 & 8, 1889 wrote from Bangor, ME
 Jun 7 1889 payed 5.00 from H. C. Sibley
 Jul 15, 1889 wrote from Aspinwall
 Oct 9 1889 payed at rank of Mate from bark Sarah
 1890 residing 267 Columbus Ave. Boston, MA
 1890 sailed on Sachem, bark Sarah
 Mar 4, 1890 wrote from St. Michaels
 Mar/May (illegable) 6 1890 payed from bark Sarah
 May 23 1890 payed from the Sachem
 May 28, 1890 wrote from Fayal
 Jun 13, 1890 wrote from St. Michaels
 Aug 16, 1890 wrote from Boston, MA
 Aug 19, 1890 wrote from Boston, MA
 Sep 18, 1890 wrote from Fayal
 Sep 28th 1890 wrote from St. Michaels 
 1891 residing 267 Columbus Ave and rear of Prince-same man? or two
different men?
 1892, 1893 and all years after not listed in Boston/Chelsea city
directories
 26 Apr 1892 arrived in Boston, MA from St. John NB on the steamer
Cumberland
 Jan 1894 sailed on the Mercedita
 Feb 1st payed 2.00 from the Mercedita
 Feb 3 1894 in Marine Hospital, Chelsea, MA for aneurism of arch
aorta-released improved in Mar 1894 
 3 Aug 1894 said to have died on this date, form for a death record
started, never completed or returned to Massachusetts vital record
office and there is no death record for him for 10 years on either
side of 1894 in Suffolk Co., MA
 by 1898 Annie is said to have removed to Chicago, IL, then to Omaha,
NE where she met and married Paul Gillette.
 that's it. Seaman's protection papers for that period and place have
been lost, I have nothing else to go on at this time. a handful of
letters are all my grandfather Allen saved from Paul Gillette's
burning of the family papers, and they tell me nothing except what
I've gleened from them of Charles work, his relationship with Annie
and their financial condition. I've attempted to access the Boston
sailor's society records, but they are unindexed so was unsuccessful
there. I don't know what to search next.  

	regards, 

	Cornelia
 On Sun 10/04/09 4:23 PM , "Richard Stein" ra_stein at telus.net sent:
  Cornelia,
 Since your great grandfather was probably born in the 1800's,
Russian Poland 
 (also called Congress Poland) included today's central, southern,
and 
 eastern Poland - as far east as the Bug River. It is a large area
with 
 100's of villages where Germans lived, so you will somehow have to
find more 
 detail about where your great grandfather was born. Until WW I,
Volhynia 
 (southeast of present Poland) was a separate province of Russia.
 If you give more information, such as his name, his wife, parents,
children, 
 time period, then perhaps someone on the list may be able to help.
 Dick Stein
 ----- Original Message ----- 
 From: 
 To: 
 Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 4:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol
77,Issue 
 2
 >
 >
 > are there compiled records for the Volhynian area? or are the
church
 > records still seperate and difficult to view? I keep hoping that
the
 > records will become easy to scan as all I have for my great
 > grandfather's place of birth is Russian Poland, which has me
assuming
 > Volhynia, but the bounderies of Russian Poland are not so defined
as
 > that, are they?
 >
 > Cornelia
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
 > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe
http://www.sggee.org [3]
 > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv [4]
 > 
 

Links:
------
[1] mailto:fenenga at connpoint.net
[2] mailto:ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
[3]
https://webmail.uslogin.net/parse.php?redirect=http://www.sggee.org
[4]
https://webmail.uslogin.net/parse.php?redirect=http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From roseingram at shaw.ca  Sun Oct  4 21:52:54 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:52:54 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Poland
References: <56487.1254704714@connpoint.net>
Message-ID: <001101ca4577$b3a8cf50$6601a8c0@duocore>

Cornelia,

Were Anton and Tekla and Charles of Catholic faith.  The given names of the parents seem to indicate this.  Did Charles always use this name or was it changed from Karl or Karol in England?  

Rose Ingram


  From: fenenga at connpoint.net 

  Thank you, Richard, 

  as far as Russian and Polish research is concerned, I'm pretty new,
  though I've been researching for 20 years on less confusing branches
  of the tree. I have lots to learn about this branch of the tree, and
  it's proving very elusive. 

  Charles Wagner, son of Anton and Thecla 

  b. abt 1855 Russia/Poland (depends on record) 

  -------------snipped -----------------------

From fenenga at connpoint.net  Sun Oct  4 22:57:55 2009
From: fenenga at connpoint.net (fenenga@connpoint.net)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:57:55 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Poland
Message-ID: <60078.1254722275@connpoint.net>

 

	hi, Rose 

	I do not know Charles' faith, but he married a Presbytarian Scots in
a church called the Spring Street Presbytarian church (Boston,
Massachusetts, U.S.A.), long gone, now. Catholic records can be
exceptional, it would be wonderful to find they were Catholic, simply
because they kept the records so well. 

	I never found the family in England, it's part of the family story,
but I have found no records in the bmd's for his parents, nor any
census for them, either. I do suspect they came out of the Black
Forest area, as there's a mention of the town/city of Engen. I
haven't checked those records because the mention is so vague and
uncertain that I can't be sure of it at all. it is entirely possible
that he changed his name. 

	Cornelia

From Krampetz at aol.com  Mon Oct  5 10:18:39 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 13:18:39 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fragment: churchrecord Warsaw, evang,
	1763-1775
Message-ID: <ce3.58c7c915.37fb846f@aol.com>

I wish I could read Polish.    Is anyone trying to translate  this document?
 
 
In a message dated 10/4/2009 12:11:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
Hannes.Werner at online.de writes:

Hello  list-members,

the states-archive at Warsaw/Poland has published some  fragment of a 
church-record of the evang. church: records of deaths and  funerals Warsaw 
area 1763 - 1775.
There are some indications to origin,  for example Saxonia  ...

http://dziedzictwo.polska.pl/katalog/skarb,Ksiega_zgonow_i_oplat_wnoszonych_
za_pogrzeby_ewangelickie_z_okresu_od_1_I_1763_do_27_IV_1775,gid,386400,cid,1
074.htm

Good  luck
Hannes Werner
Germany



From otto at schienke.com  Mon Oct  5 11:35:23 2009
From: otto at schienke.com (Otto)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 14:35:23 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fragment: churchrecord Warsaw, evang,
	1763-1775
In-Reply-To: <ce3.58c7c915.37fb846f@aol.com>
References: <ce3.58c7c915.37fb846f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1D96E5C0-1E02-4DA0-B4B9-6730C9DB37DD@schienke.com>

The site is in POLISH.
Certainly is a neat manner in which they present the document for  
viewing.

The document has need for one to brush upon your LATIN.



On Oct 5, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Krampetz at aol.com wrote:

> http://dziedzictwo.polska.pl/katalog/skarb,Ksiega_zgonow_i_oplat_wnoszonych_
> za_pogrzeby_ewangelickie_z_okresu_od_1_I_1763_do_27_IV_1775,gid, 
> 386400,cid,1
> 074.htm







. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



From edies_hook at msn.com  Mon Oct  5 11:57:33 2009
From: edies_hook at msn.com (Edith McKelvy)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:57:33 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rengas Radzymin Warsaw Government,
	request for info
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP21E3C84CB961689D2D7B3BE7CF0@phx.gbl>

A distant cousin-by-marriage who lives in Germany has recently found me on
the Internet!!! 
 
 Amazingly, her mother and my mother Olga Brade were childhood playmates in
Lesniakowizna, 15 miles east of Warsaw, almost 100 years ago.  Even more
amazing, she holds and has translated two documents, re my maternal
grandfather's land purchases of 1894 and 1903, from Russian to German
language for me (I use Google and/or Promt upon receipt to translate
German-English).
 
---   In 1894  " Excerpt...complete records of the mortgage book" of "the
seat RENGAS Radzymin Warsaw Government"
 
---    In 1903 (my grandfather) "Karl Brade had a passport which had been
issued in RENGAS on the 11.12.1901 under No. 49."
 
1.  What is RENGAS?  Is it a town -- a government agency -- a courthouse?
 
2.  I have read that passports were issued during this time period when
persons moved from one location to another.   I know that Karl Brade lived
in Lesniakowizna circa 1894, but where did he come FROM? 
 
Any assistance would be most appreciated...
 
Edith McKelvy
Silverdale WA
 
 
 


From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Mon Oct  5 12:01:41 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 21:01:41 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fragment: churchrecord Warsaw, evang,
	1763-1775
References: <ce3.58c7c915.37fb846f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001801ca45ee$47ec4540$f800a8c0@end2000>

Hi Bob,

the real documents are in German and Latin.
Don't know whether there is anybody who will translate/transcribe it just in 
time.

Hannes W.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Krampetz at aol.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fragment: churchrecord Warsaw, 
evang,1763-1775


>I wish I could read Polish.    Is anyone trying to translate  this 
>document?
>
>
> In a message dated 10/4/2009 12:11:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> Hannes.Werner at online.de writes:
>
> Hello  list-members,
>
> the states-archive at Warsaw/Poland has published some  fragment of a
> church-record of the evang. church: records of deaths and  funerals Warsaw
> area 1763 - 1775.
> There are some indications to origin,  for example Saxonia  ...
>
> http://dziedzictwo.polska.pl/katalog/skarb,Ksiega_zgonow_i_oplat_wnoszonych_
> za_pogrzeby_ewangelickie_z_okresu_od_1_I_1763_do_27_IV_1775,gid,386400,cid,1
> 074.htm
>
> Good  luck
> Hannes Werner
> Germany
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 




From dproper at charter.net  Mon Oct  5 20:00:30 2009
From: dproper at charter.net (Dave Proper)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 20:00:30 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
Message-ID: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>

My sister-in-law found an old document in the old family homestead this
summer. It was written in Russian Cyrillic and no could make sense of it.
Recently a friend of hers recruited a retired Russian Army officer to
perform the translation. It turns out to be a birth certificate for my
wife's grandfather, Julius Platzke. The document was created when he was
about 16 years old and the top of the document says "For the purpose of
draft or book of census. My presumption is that was for proof of age for
possible military service. The translated Russian names for the places in
Poland make no sense to me and have no references to be found online. Can
someone tell me where in Poland this might be? The document is like this:

Warsaw Province
Wlotslav District
Parish of Ev. Augsb. Hodechenii Przhedechskii

				Birth Certificate

Issued to certify that Juljush Blotzke
Son of Wilhelm and his wife Wilhelminv
Maiden name Frost was born in Domanikov
In the month of October, day of 22 (month of November day of 3) in the year
of 1877

Village of Pruidech, day of April 13/25, year of 1894

Signed and sealed by Voit Gminy, officer of the Civil Registry Office

The father is Frederick Wilhelm Platzke and the mother is Wilhelmina Frost
and the birth date is correct (Oct 22nd 1877). The only hit I found in
Google for "Domanikov" refers to geological rock unit somewhere near the
present day town of Czarny Dunajec in the far south of Poland. Strangely
enough that is about 200 kilometers due east of the little village in the
Czech Republic that my father's mother came from.

Can anyone provide some guidance as to where to start further research?
Thanks!

Dave Proper
dproper at charter.net


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Mon Oct  5 20:51:25 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:51:25 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
In-Reply-To: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>
References: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4ACABEBD.4090007@warnerengineering.com>

Dave,

Julius Pletzke, his siblings Juliane and Reinhard, and also his parents 
Friedrich Wilhelm Pletzke and Wilhelmine Frost are part of the database 
of Frank Stewner, Elene Bieberdorf and David Biberdorf.

I will send you Frank's email address in a separate email.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Dave Proper wrote:
> My sister-in-law found an old document in the old family homestead this
> summer. It was written in Russian Cyrillic and no could make sense of it.
> Recently a friend of hers recruited a retired Russian Army officer to
> perform the translation. It turns out to be a birth certificate for my
> wife's grandfather, Julius Platzke. The document was created when he was
> about 16 years old and the top of the document says "For the purpose of
> draft or book of census. My presumption is that was for proof of age for
> possible military service. The translated Russian names for the places in
> Poland make no sense to me and have no references to be found online. Can
> someone tell me where in Poland this might be? The document is like this:
>
> Warsaw Province
> Wlotslav District
> Parish of Ev. Augsb. Hodechenii Przhedechskii
>
> 				Birth Certificate
>
> Issued to certify that Juljush Blotzke
> Son of Wilhelm and his wife Wilhelminv
> Maiden name Frost was born in Domanikov
> In the month of October, day of 22 (month of November day of 3) in the year
> of 1877
>
> Village of Pruidech, day of April 13/25, year of 1894
>
> Signed and sealed by Voit Gminy, officer of the Civil Registry Office
>
> The father is Frederick Wilhelm Platzke and the mother is Wilhelmina Frost
> and the birth date is correct (Oct 22nd 1877). The only hit I found in
> Google for "Domanikov" refers to geological rock unit somewhere near the
> present day town of Czarny Dunajec in the far south of Poland. Strangely
> enough that is about 200 kilometers due east of the little village in the
> Czech Republic that my father's mother came from.
>
> Can anyone provide some guidance as to where to start further research?
> Thanks!
>
> Dave Proper
> dproper at charter.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From duesterhoeft at gmx.de  Mon Oct  5 23:45:19 2009
From: duesterhoeft at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?B?IlN0ZWZhbiBEw7xzdGVyaMO2ZnQgKGR1ZXN0ZXJob2VmdEBnbXguZGUpIg==?=)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:45:19 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
In-Reply-To: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>
References: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4ACAE77F.2010702@gmx.de>

Dave Proper schrieb am 06.10.2009 05:00:

> Warsaw Province
> Wlotslav District
> Parish of Ev. Augsb. Hodechenii Przhedechskii

Hi Dave,

I think you are looking for
- Warszawa Province
- W?oc?awek District
- Chodecz Parish

There is a Domanik?w about 10 miles south of Chodecz (52?14'N 19?03'E).

Stefan Duesterhoeft



From textor_jan at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  6 00:23:16 2009
From: textor_jan at hotmail.com (Jan Textor)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:23:16 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
Message-ID: <BAY107-W494E7FFFA807CC013FA024F5CE0@phx.gbl>


Dave and Stefan,




A small correction:

The parish is the Lutheran Parish of Przedecz.

Domanik?w is situated about 16 kilometers southeast of Przedecz, and about 18 kilometers south of Chodecz.

Jan Textor



> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 08:45:19 +0200
> From: duesterhoeft at gmx.de
> To: dproper at charter.net
> CC: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
> 
> Dave Proper schrieb am 06.10.2009 05:00:
> 
> > Warsaw Province
> > Wlotslav District
> > Parish of Ev. Augsb. Hodechenii Przhedechskii
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I think you are looking for
> - Warszawa Province
> - W?oc?awek District
> - Chodecz Parish
> 
> There is a Domanik?w about 10 miles south of Chodecz (52?14'N 19?03'E).
> 
> Stefan Duesterhoeft
> 

 		 	   		  

From roseingram at shaw.ca  Tue Oct  6 00:27:56 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 00:27:56 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
References: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <003f01ca4656$85fc0ba0$6601a8c0@duocore>

Dave was kind enought to send me scan of the document. As I suspected (as well as Stefan) the district is Wloclawek, but the parish is Przedecz.  

I have photocopies of the handwritten indexes from Przedecz films.
Julius' birth is on the 1877 index, surname written Blotzke. 

I believe I found the marriage of Julius parents listed on the 1876 index for Dabie parish. 

Rose Ingram

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dave Proper 
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:00 PM
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names


  My sister-in-law found an old document in the old family homestead this
  summer. It was written in Russian Cyrillic and no could make sense of it.
  Recently a friend of hers recruited a retired Russian Army officer to
  perform the translation. It turns out to be a birth certificate for my
  wife's grandfather, Julius Platzke. The document was created when he was
  about 16 years old and the top of the document says "For the purpose of
  draft or book of census. My presumption is that was for proof of age for
  possible military service. The translated Russian names for the places in
  Poland make no sense to me and have no references to be found online. Can
  someone tell me where in Poland this might be? The document is like this:

  Warsaw Province
  Wlotslav District
  Parish of Ev. Augsb. Hodechenii Przhedechskii

  Birth Certificate

  Issued to certify that Juljush Blotzke
  Son of Wilhelm and his wife Wilhelminv
  Maiden name Frost was born in Domanikov
  In the month of October, day of 22 (month of November day of 3) in the year
  of 1877

  Village of Pruidech, day of April 13/25, year of 1894

  Signed and sealed by Voit Gminy, officer of the Civil Registry Office

  The father is Frederick Wilhelm Platzke and the mother is Wilhelmina Frost
  and the birth date is correct (Oct 22nd 1877). The only hit I found in
  Google for "Domanikov" refers to geological rock unit somewhere near the
  present day town of Czarny Dunajec in the far south of Poland. Strangely
  enough that is about 200 kilometers due east of the little village in the
  Czech Republic that my father's mother came from.

  Can anyone provide some guidance as to where to start further research?
  Thanks!

  Dave Proper
  dproper at charter.net

  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Tue Oct  6 05:56:35 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 06:56:35 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rengas Radzymin Warsaw Government,
 request for info
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP21E3C84CB961689D2D7B3BE7CF0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP21E3C84CB961689D2D7B3BE7CF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4ACB3E83.3020002@shaw.ca>

Edith,

I suspect that Rengas is mistranslated or misinterpreted.  It is not a 
place name as far as I can determine.  Radzymin would be the nearest 
county town to Lesniakowizna and it was also the nearest Lutheran parish 
center.  Unfortunately, few records are available for that parish which 
will really complicate your search for earlier than 1894. 

While passports themselves can hold valuable info about a place of 
birth, I have not heard of anyone who has successfully traced any info 
from the place where the passports were likely to have been issued.  
Would be nice to hear if anyone has had such success.

Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



Edith McKelvy wrote:
> A distant cousin-by-marriage who lives in Germany has recently found me on
> the Internet!!! 
>  
>  Amazingly, her mother and my mother Olga Brade were childhood playmates in
> Lesniakowizna, 15 miles east of Warsaw, almost 100 years ago.  Even more
> amazing, she holds and has translated two documents, re my maternal
> grandfather's land purchases of 1894 and 1903, from Russian to German
> language for me (I use Google and/or Promt upon receipt to translate
> German-English).
>  
> ---   In 1894  " Excerpt...complete records of the mortgage book" of "the
> seat RENGAS Radzymin Warsaw Government"
>  
> ---    In 1903 (my grandfather) "Karl Brade had a passport which had been
> issued in RENGAS on the 11.12.1901 under No. 49."
>  
> 1.  What is RENGAS?  Is it a town -- a government agency -- a courthouse?
>  
> 2.  I have read that passports were issued during this time period when
> persons moved from one location to another.   I know that Karl Brade lived
> in Lesniakowizna circa 1894, but where did he come FROM? 
>  
> Any assistance would be most appreciated...
>  
> Edith McKelvy
> Silverdale WA
>  
>  
>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  6 06:12:33 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 06:12:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
In-Reply-To: <pEyP1c00G0R6wX005EyPcC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <113280.28093.qm@web55307.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Dave,
Just one minor point. The birthdate of October 22, 1877 is according to the Julian calendar. The birthdate according to the Gregorian calendar we use is November 3 as that record also indicates. So for your reference you want to specify 3 Nov 1877 as the birthdate.
Regards,
Karl

--- On Mon, 10/5/09, Dave Proper <dproper at charter.net> wrote:

From: Dave Proper <dproper at charter.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish equivalent of Russian Poland names
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 11:00 PM

My sister-in-law found an old document in the old family homestead this
summer. It was written in Russian Cyrillic and no could make sense of it.
Recently a friend of hers recruited a retired Russian Army officer to
perform the translation. It turns out to be a birth certificate for my
wife's grandfather, Julius Platzke. The document was created when he was
about 16 years old and the top of the document says "For the purpose of
draft or book of census. My presumption is that was for proof of age for
possible military service. The translated Russian names for the places in
Poland make no sense to me and have no references to be found online. Can
someone tell me where in Poland this might be? The document is like this:

Warsaw Province
Wlotslav District
Parish of Ev. Augsb. Hodechenii Przhedechskii

??? ??? ??? ??? Birth Certificate

Issued to certify that Juljush Blotzke
Son of Wilhelm and his wife Wilhelminv
Maiden name Frost was born in Domanikov
In the month of October, day of 22 (month of November day of 3) in the year
of 1877

Village of Pruidech, day of April 13/25, year of 1894

Signed and sealed by Voit Gminy, officer of the Civil Registry Office

The father is Frederick Wilhelm Platzke and the mother is Wilhelmina Frost
and the birth date is correct (Oct 22nd 1877). The only hit I found in
Google for "Domanikov" refers to geological rock unit somewhere near the
present day town of Czarny Dunajec in the far south of Poland. Strangely
enough that is about 200 kilometers due east of the little village in the
Czech Republic that my father's mother came from.

Can anyone provide some guidance as to where to start further research?
Thanks!

Dave Proper
dproper at charter.net

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



      

From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com  Tue Oct  6 13:39:28 2009
From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:39:28 -0300
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] =?iso-8859-1?q?Auswandererkartei_der_Ru=DFl?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?anddeutschen?=
Message-ID: <013f01ca46c5$1c008c20$0301010a@ntbrt02>

Hello,

Has someone already researched on the microfilm "Auswandererkartei der Ru?landdeutschen nach Brasilien, 1870-1940"?

Notes: Index cards, arranged alphabetically by surname, for German-speaking emigrants from Russia to Brazil. Includes information about dates and places of birth and death (or age) for both spouses and children, place and date of marriage, religion, homeland, date of emigration, profession, and documentary sources. Though most destinations were for Brazil, a few settled in Argentina, Canada, and the U. S. A.

Thanks,
Eduardo

From hgillespie at rogers.com  Tue Oct  6 17:05:49 2009
From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FamilySearch wiki on Germany
Message-ID: <125098.31730.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Further to Eduardo's link to the Family Search portal on Russia, I checked out the Portal on Germany and found a number of useful links - including access to a German-English dictionary, which might be  helpful to many.
As well, there are links to maps, plus links (at the bottom) to each of the regions - each with links to areas like religions, genealogy, census, emigration/immigration etc.  

https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Portal:Germany   

It might be a site worth saving.

Helen Gillespie

Searching: Baier/Bethke, Kukasch/Koenig, Schulz, Belter, Pufahl/Pufal
Locations: Berestovets, Solomka, Boruwka, Kurhany - all Wolhynia 1863-1940; Konstantynow, Turek - Poland - ca. 1860s


From wg7 at theunion.net  Wed Oct  7 12:39:52 2009
From: wg7 at theunion.net (Will Genz)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:39:52 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,
	Issue 6
References: <mailman.1.1254942003.5494.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <3F4444A9482044DC914EE4EBC5886655@authorizm3im63>

Hello Eduardo,  I think the correct spelling of the title of the card is " 
Auswanderungskarten der Russland lebende Landeutschen" the rough English 
translation is "Passport of the German citizens from Russia" However, I have 
not done the research of which you speak.  Will Grenz, wg7 at theunion.net.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 6


> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Auswandererkartei der Ru?landdeutschen (Eduardo Kommers)
>   2. FamilySearch wiki on Germany (Helen Gillespie)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:39:28 -0300
> From: "Eduardo Kommers" <eduardo.kommers at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Auswandererkartei der Ru?landdeutschen
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <013f01ca46c5$1c008c20$0301010a at ntbrt02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello,
>
> Has someone already researched on the microfilm "Auswandererkartei der 
> Ru?landdeutschen nach Brasilien, 1870-1940"?
>
> Notes: Index cards, arranged alphabetically by surname, for 
> German-speaking emigrants from Russia to Brazil. Includes information 
> about dates and places of birth and death (or age) for both spouses and 
> children, place and date of marriage, religion, homeland, date of 
> emigration, profession, and documentary sources. Though most destinations 
> were for Brazil, a few settled in Argentina, Canada, and the U. S. A.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduardo
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Helen Gillespie <hgillespie at rogers.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FamilySearch wiki on Germany
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <125098.31730.qm at web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Further to Eduardo's link to the Family Search portal on Russia, I checked 
> out the Portal on Germany and found a number of useful links - including 
> access to a German-English dictionary, which might be  helpful to many.
> As well, there are links to maps, plus links (at the bottom) to each of 
> the regions - each with links to areas like religions, genealogy, census, 
> emigration/immigration etc.
>
> https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Portal:Germany
>
> It might be a site worth saving.
>
> Helen Gillespie
>
> Searching: Baier/Bethke, Kukasch/Koenig, Schulz, Belter, Pufahl/Pufal
> Locations: Berestovets, Solomka, Boruwka, Kurhany - all Wolhynia 
> 1863-1940; Konstantynow, Turek - Poland - ca. 1860s
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 6
> **************************************************


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2419 - Release Date: 10/07/09 
05:18:00



From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 13:43:43 2009
From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:43:43 -0300
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Auswandererkartei der Russlanddeutschen
References: <mailman.1.1254942003.5494.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<3F4444A9482044DC914EE4EBC5886655@authorizm3im63>
Message-ID: <016801ca478e$df379390$0301010a@ntbrt02>

Hello Will, anyway, have you researched the card "Auswanderungskarten der 
Russland lebende Landeutschen"?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Will Genz" <wg7 at theunion.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,Issue 
6


> Hello Eduardo,  I think the correct spelling of the title of the card is "
> Auswanderungskarten der Russland lebende Landeutschen" the rough English
> translation is "Passport of the German citizens from Russia" However, I 
> have
> not done the research of which you speak.  Will Grenz, wg7 at theunion.net.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 12:00 PM
> Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 6
>
>
>> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
>> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Auswandererkartei der Ru?landdeutschen (Eduardo Kommers)
>>   2. FamilySearch wiki on Germany (Helen Gillespie)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:39:28 -0300
>> From: "Eduardo Kommers" <eduardo.kommers at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Auswandererkartei der Ru?landdeutschen
>> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
>> Message-ID: <013f01ca46c5$1c008c20$0301010a at ntbrt02>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Has someone already researched on the microfilm "Auswandererkartei der
>> Ru?landdeutschen nach Brasilien, 1870-1940"?
>>
>> Notes: Index cards, arranged alphabetically by surname, for
>> German-speaking emigrants from Russia to Brazil. Includes information
>> about dates and places of birth and death (or age) for both spouses and
>> children, place and date of marriage, religion, homeland, date of
>> emigration, profession, and documentary sources. Though most destinations
>> were for Brazil, a few settled in Argentina, Canada, and the U. S. A.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eduardo
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Helen Gillespie <hgillespie at rogers.com>
>> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FamilySearch wiki on Germany
>> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>> Message-ID: <125098.31730.qm at web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Further to Eduardo's link to the Family Search portal on Russia, I 
>> checked
>> out the Portal on Germany and found a number of useful links - including
>> access to a German-English dictionary, which might be  helpful to many.
>> As well, there are links to maps, plus links (at the bottom) to each of
>> the regions - each with links to areas like religions, genealogy, census,
>> emigration/immigration etc.
>>
>> https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Portal:Germany
>>
>> It might be a site worth saving.
>>
>> Helen Gillespie
>>
>> Searching: Baier/Bethke, Kukasch/Koenig, Schulz, Belter, Pufahl/Pufal
>> Locations: Berestovets, Solomka, Boruwka, Kurhany - all Wolhynia
>> 1863-1940; Konstantynow, Turek - Poland - ca. 1860s
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>>
>>
>> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 6
>> **************************************************
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2419 - Release Date: 10/07/09
> 05:18:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



From lloydfriedrick at telus.net  Thu Oct  8 11:26:16 2009
From: lloydfriedrick at telus.net (Lloyd Friedrick)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:26:16 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
Message-ID: <642611D0768642B6AF088F41B79C4353@LloydPC>

My Great Grandfather {Friedrich Hartmann } [born 1841, and married in Dubno] used the surname Hartmann. He married Caroline Kupferstein. 

Were these common Jewish family names at this time ?

Strangely, they recorded their children with the surname Friedrich.

Lloyd Friedrick on Vancouver's Island, British Columbia



From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Thu Oct  8 12:44:43 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:44:43 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
In-Reply-To: <642611D0768642B6AF088F41B79C4353@LloydPC>
References: <642611D0768642B6AF088F41B79C4353@LloydPC>
Message-ID: <f317803c8008.4acdeccb@shaw.ca>

My first thought on the name change is this - was your great grandfather actually named Hartmann Friedrich?? Though unusual, I have seen Hartmann as a given name.? How reliable is the translation of your document?

As for Jews, they did not begin to use surnames until mandated to do so by Napoleon in the late 1700s.? So neither of your surnames would be classed as common among Jews since they would only have been in existence for 50-60 years.? It is far more likely that a Jew adapted or adopted your noted surnames than vice versa.


Jerry


----- Original Message -----
From: Lloyd Friedrick <lloydfriedrick at telus.net>
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:29 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> My Great Grandfather {Friedrich Hartmann } [born 1841, and 
> married in Dubno] used the surname Hartmann. He married Caroline 
> Kupferstein. 
> 
> Were these common Jewish family names at this time ?
> 
> Strangely, they recorded their children with the surname Friedrich.
> 
> Lloyd Friedrick on Vancouver's Island, British Columbia
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From roseingram at shaw.ca  Thu Oct  8 16:32:17 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
References: <642611D0768642B6AF088F41B79C4353@LloydPC>
	<f317803c8008.4acdeccb@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <012b01ca486f$933fc480$6601a8c0@duocore>

Lloyd,

If you will look in the SGGEE pedigree database, you will see that Hartmann Friedrich (b. 1818) married Caroline Koberstein (b. 1821) in Konstantynow Evangelical church on 14th Jan. 1840.

Is your great grandfather of child of this couple who married a woman with a name similar to his mother?

I'm of the same mind as Jerry, I am suspicious of the translation of your document, or perhaps it was written in a manner different from what we are used to.

Rose Ingram
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Frank 
  To: Lloyd Friedrick 
  Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames


  My first thought on the name change is this - was your great grandfather actually named Hartmann Friedrich? Though unusual, I have seen Hartmann as a given name. How reliable is the translation of your document?

  As for Jews, they did not begin to use surnames until mandated to do so by Napoleon in the late 1700s. So neither of your surnames would be classed as common among Jews since they would only have been in existence for 50-60 years. It is far more likely that a Jew adapted or adopted your noted surnames than vice versa.


  Jerry


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Lloyd Friedrick <lloydfriedrick at telus.net>
  Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:29 pm
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

  > My Great Grandfather {Friedrich Hartmann } [born 1841, and 
  > married in Dubno] used the surname Hartmann. He married Caroline 
  > Kupferstein. 
  > 
  > Were these common Jewish family names at this time ?
  > 
  > Strangely, they recorded their children with the surname Friedrich.
  > 
  > Lloyd Friedrick on Vancouver's Island, British Columbia
  > 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
  > 

  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

From gary at warnerengineering.com  Thu Oct  8 19:20:17 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:20:17 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
In-Reply-To: <012b01ca486f$933fc480$6601a8c0@duocore>
References: <642611D0768642B6AF088F41B79C4353@LloydPC>	<f317803c8008.4acdeccb@shaw.ca>
	<012b01ca486f$933fc480$6601a8c0@duocore>
Message-ID: <4ACE9DE1.4020408@warnerengineering.com>

Lloyd,

In addition to the couple that Rose noted, we also have another couple 
named Hartmann Friedrich and Caroline Kuperstein.   We have not marriage 
data for that couple, but they have a daughter Juliana Friedrich, born 
in 1850 in Dubno, and she marries Johann Marks.  

Based on the couple that Rose found, and also based on the couple that I 
mention above, your data fits in all respects, except for the 1841 birth 
you note for your Hartmann.  Are you sure that his birth year is not 
about 1818?

Gary Warner

Rose Ingram wrote:
> Lloyd,
>
> If you will look in the SGGEE pedigree database, you will see that Hartmann Friedrich (b. 1818) married Caroline Koberstein (b. 1821) in Konstantynow Evangelical church on 14th Jan. 1840.
>
> Is your great grandfather of child of this couple who married a woman with a name similar to his mother?
>
> I'm of the same mind as Jerry, I am suspicious of the translation of your document, or perhaps it was written in a manner different from what we are used to.
>
> Rose Ingram
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Jerry Frank 
>   To: Lloyd Friedrick 
>   Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:44 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
>
>
>   My first thought on the name change is this - was your great grandfather actually named Hartmann Friedrich? Though unusual, I have seen Hartmann as a given name. How reliable is the translation of your document?
>
>   As for Jews, they did not begin to use surnames until mandated to do so by Napoleon in the late 1700s. So neither of your surnames would be classed as common among Jews since they would only have been in existence for 50-60 years. It is far more likely that a Jew adapted or adopted your noted surnames than vice versa.
>
>
>   Jerry
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Lloyd Friedrick <lloydfriedrick at telus.net>
>   Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:29 pm
>   Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] surnames
>   To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
>   > My Great Grandfather {Friedrich Hartmann } [born 1841, and 
>   > married in Dubno] used the surname Hartmann. He married Caroline 
>   > Kupferstein. 
>   > 
>   > Were these common Jewish family names at this time ?
>   > 
>   > Strangely, they recorded their children with the surname Friedrich.
>   > 
>   > Lloyd Friedrick on Vancouver's Island, British Columbia
>   > 
>   > 
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>   > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>   > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   > 
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>   Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>   Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From dproper at charter.net  Fri Oct  9 22:44:03 2009
From: dproper at charter.net (Dave Proper)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
Message-ID: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>

All,
I had never worked with Polish place names until recently when Rose Ingram
sent me a treasure trove of information about my Plotzke relations. I am
entering the data into TMG and was struck by the variety of Polish place
names and the seemingly various ways of recording them. I looked into the
modern Polish place name conventions - gimas, powiat, voivdeship and
country. Armed with that, I have a place named "Dabie, Kolo, Poznan,
Poland". That seems to make sense, like municipality, county, province,
county. But then I find place names recorded in family group sheets such as
"Gorki, (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland". I understand that Gorki is
obviously in the Dabie Parish and provides another level of information.
Which do people prefer and why? 

Another question: are there maps that delineate what the parish boundaries
might have been during various time frames? For example, the birth place of
Friedrich Wilhelm Plotzke on 25 Apr 1849 was Chwalborczyce Holendry. The
record was in the Dabie Parish books but when I found the village
(Chwalborczyce) using ShtelSeeker it was about 5 km southeast of the town of
Dabie and just across the provincial border in Lodz. So now would this be
"Chwalborczyce, (Dabie Parish), ?county-unknown?, Lodz, Poland"?  Which
leads to a further question is there a definitive way to determine which
powiat would be the correct name to use here? The convention seems to be
that they are named after the largest city in the region but that is not
easy to ascertain.

OK, last question, where is the village of Gorki mentioned above - "Gorki,
(Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland"? Enter that in ShtelSeeker and you get
93 potential places in Poland! Is there way to focus ShtelSeeker to a
smaller region than just Poland as a whole?

Thanks for your assistance and patience!
Dave Proper
dproper at charter.net







From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Sat Oct 10 03:20:43 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 05:20:43 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
In-Reply-To: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
Message-ID: <000601ca4993$5344fa10$f9ceee30$@net>



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dave
Proper
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:44 AM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names

All,
I had never worked with Polish place names until recently when Rose Ingram
sent me a treasure trove of information about my Plotzke relations. I am
entering the data into TMG and was struck by the variety of Polish place
names and the seemingly various ways of recording them. I looked into the
modern Polish place name conventions - gimas, powiat, voivdeship and
country. Armed with that, I have a place named "Dabie, Kolo, Poznan,
Poland". That seems to make sense, like municipality, county, province,
county. But then I find place names recorded in family group sheets such as
"Gorki, (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland". I understand that Gorki is
obviously in the Dabie Parish and provides another level of information.
Which do people prefer and why? 

Another question: are there maps that delineate what the parish boundaries
might have been during various time frames? For example, the birth place of
Friedrich Wilhelm Plotzke on 25 Apr 1849 was Chwalborczyce Holendry. The
record was in the Dabie Parish books but when I found the village
(Chwalborczyce) using ShtelSeeker it was about 5 km southeast of the town of
Dabie and just across the provincial border in Lodz. So now would this be
"Chwalborczyce, (Dabie Parish), ?county-unknown?, Lodz, Poland"?  Which
leads to a further question is there a definitive way to determine which
powiat would be the correct name to use here? The convention seems to be
that they are named after the largest city in the region but that is not
easy to ascertain.

OK, last question, where is the village of Gorki mentioned above - "Gorki,
(Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland"? Enter that in ShtelSeeker and you get
93 potential places in Poland! Is there way to focus ShtelSeeker to a
smaller region than just Poland as a whole?

Thanks for your assistance and patience!
Dave Proper
dproper at charter.net

============================================================================
==========

If you do a search for Kolo, using the pull-down choice of Search method:
"Is Exactly - Town names with this precise spelling", you will get only 6
hits.  One is Kolo, Warthbruecken.  Using its Coordinates of 52?11' N 18?37'
E, do a search for Gorki (Exactly again), using "Show the distance and
direction from the Latitude? choice.

You will get 42 hits.  The closest of them is only 11.8 miles ENE from Kolo.

If you do a similar search for Dabie, you will get 20 hits, the closest
being 11.5 miles SE from Kolo.

I believe that this Gorki is the one you want.  It is maybe a little
convoluted finding method, but it seems to get good results.  You just have
to locate towns using the Latitude method, rather than the Capital City
method.

Good luck.

Joe in Texas






_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Sat Oct 10 06:56:44 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:56:44 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
In-Reply-To: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4AD0929C.70809@shaw.ca>

The issue of governing districts in Poland is very complicated due to 
many changes over the past 200 years.  Even the LDS files their 
microfilms by a district convention in place after WW II that has no 
relevance to today nor to pre WW II boundaries.  You can imagine with a 
database of over 450,000 names, that we get numerous variations on how 
that information is reported to us.  One of our volunteers in Germany 
recently completed a gazetteer of all known villages where Germans lived 
in Russian Poland.  He standardized the system of location to the modern 
boundaries along with other detailed info.  Data entered into our 
databases will be based on that so that we have a standard format.  This 
gazetteer, which also includes parish names, will be made available on 
line later this year.

Unfortunately, I now have to complicate your personal research a little 
more.  On Albert Breyer's map of German villages, he shows Chwalborzyce 
Holendry a few km SE of Domanin (south of Dabie).  On a modern map at 
1:200,000 scale, this is shown as the village of Chwalborzyce.  On 
another map at 1:50,000 scale, I found not only the village of 
Chwalborzyce in this location but another village north of Domanin, 
towards Dabie, called Holendry Chwalborzyce.  So, the question becomes - 
was Breyer's name wrong, was the location wrong, is the 1:50,000 map 
wrong, or did the name change over time?  And, did Germans live in both 
places or only the Holendry?

Similarly, Oskar Kossmann provides a map of German villages which shows 
the village of Gadowskie Holendry.  A modern map shows the village of 
Gadowskie in this location AND the village of Gadowskie Holendry another 
5 km or so to the north.  So which of these two villages is the one that 
really held German residents or did they both?

In another posting, Joe gave you some hints about narrowing the search 
for places like Gorki.  In addition, you may find place names replicated 
more than once within a parish or district.  To narrow that down even 
further, you will have to look at the village names for witnesses in the 
document.  You may find a cluster of villages that will help you to 
narrow down the correct one that has choices. 


Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



Dave Proper wrote:
> All,
> I had never worked with Polish place names until recently when Rose Ingram
> sent me a treasure trove of information about my Plotzke relations. I am
> entering the data into TMG and was struck by the variety of Polish place
> names and the seemingly various ways of recording them. I looked into the
> modern Polish place name conventions - gimas, powiat, voivdeship and
> country. Armed with that, I have a place named "Dabie, Kolo, Poznan,
> Poland". That seems to make sense, like municipality, county, province,
> county. But then I find place names recorded in family group sheets such as
> "Gorki, (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland". I understand that Gorki is
> obviously in the Dabie Parish and provides another level of information.
> Which do people prefer and why? 
>
> Another question: are there maps that delineate what the parish boundaries
> might have been during various time frames? For example, the birth place of
> Friedrich Wilhelm Plotzke on 25 Apr 1849 was Chwalborczyce Holendry. The
> record was in the Dabie Parish books but when I found the village
> (Chwalborczyce) using ShtelSeeker it was about 5 km southeast of the town of
> Dabie and just across the provincial border in Lodz. So now would this be
> "Chwalborczyce, (Dabie Parish), ?county-unknown?, Lodz, Poland"?  Which
> leads to a further question is there a definitive way to determine which
> powiat would be the correct name to use here? The convention seems to be
> that they are named after the largest city in the region but that is not
> easy to ascertain.
>
> OK, last question, where is the village of Gorki mentioned above - "Gorki,
> (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland"? Enter that in ShtelSeeker and you get
> 93 potential places in Poland! Is there way to focus ShtelSeeker to a
> smaller region than just Poland as a whole?
>
> Thanks for your assistance and patience!
> Dave Proper
> dproper at charter.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Sat Oct 10 07:52:15 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:52:15 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net> <4AD0929C.70809@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <5C1CD861161940F0AA60FA89B0522925@Marsh>

    The gazetteer will be a real blessing!!

John Marsch

-----------------------------------------

  The issue of governing districts in Poland is very complicated due to 
  many changes over the past 200 years.  Even the LDS files their 
  microfilms by a district convention in place after WW II that has no 
  relevance to today nor to pre WW II boundaries.  You can imagine with a 
  database of over 450,000 names, that we get numerous variations on how 
  that information is reported to us.  One of our volunteers in Germany 
  recently completed a gazetteer of all known villages where Germans lived 
  in Russian Poland.  He standardized the system of location to the modern 
  boundaries along with other detailed info.  Data entered into our 
  databases will be based on that so that we have a standard format.  This 
  gazetteer, which also includes parish names, will be made available on 
  line later this year.



From roseingram at shaw.ca  Sat Oct 10 09:28:49 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:28:49 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
Message-ID: <002001ca49c6$bfc436a0$6601a8c0@duocore>

Dave,

In my personal data I added the parish in brackets for my own reference, and perhaps should have removed the parish notation before submitting because I do cite the Church/parish source.  There is no need to reference the parish in the place description.  I use the description according the LDS convention which is similar to map I have, dated 1939.

But, Gorki is a very good example of why I noted the parish in brackets.  There are/were two villages named Gorki in this area.  

One was between the towns Przedecz and Klodawa, a stone's throw south of Klokoczyn, and according to my map within the boundaries of "Kutno, Lodz, Poland".  Residents from this village would have used either Przedecz church or Klodawa according to their whim.    To confuse things further, this Gorki is very close to the boundaries of three former provinces of Lodz, Poznan and Wloclawek, according to my map.   

The other Gorki is about 3 miles (5 kilometers) SSW of Klodawa, Kolo, Poznan, Poland.  I have been able to determine this as the village where my ancestors lived in the 1800's as well as other Germans.  I found my ancestors records in both Klodawa Catholic parish and in Dabie Evangelical/Lutheran parish.  It seems the winter babies were baptised and recorded in Klodawa Catholic and summer babies in Dabie which was quite a distance south.  This is why I added the parish name in my personal file.

I believe Chwalborczyce Holendry became known as Chwalborczyce, which about 3 miles (5 km) SE of Dabie.  There was a village Chwalborskie between these two places, about a mile south of Dabie.  Now here we go with the boundaries and three other provinces again.  According to my map Chwalborczyce was in Poddebice county, Lodz, Poland, but obviously the residents would have gone to Dabie church.  And Chwalborskie was in Kolo, Poznan, Poland, accordingly to my map.  

There are a lot of villages in the corridor between Klodawa and Dabie and which were occupied by Germans and most of these villages were within Leczyca county, and residents used the Sobotka Catholic, Grabow Catholic and Dabie Lutheran churches, depending on time period and possibly the time of year.  Again, winter babies baptisms are in the Catholic churches which were close by and summer babies baptisms are recorded in Dabie church records.

It appears people used the church which was convenient at the time and paid no attention to boundaries.

I don't know if this answers your questions, or if you may be scratching your head a lot more.

Rose Ingram 



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dave Proper 
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:44 PM
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names


  All,
  I had never worked with Polish place names until recently when Rose Ingram
  sent me a treasure trove of information about my Plotzke relations. I am
  entering the data into TMG and was struck by the variety of Polish place
  names and the seemingly various ways of recording them. I looked into the
  modern Polish place name conventions - gimas, powiat, voivdeship and
  country. Armed with that, I have a place named "Dabie, Kolo, Poznan,
  Poland". That seems to make sense, like municipality, county, province,
  county. But then I find place names recorded in family group sheets such as
  "Gorki, (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland". I understand that Gorki is
  obviously in the Dabie Parish and provides another level of information.
  Which do people prefer and why? 

  Another question: are there maps that delineate what the parish boundaries
  might have been during various time frames? For example, the birth place of
  Friedrich Wilhelm Plotzke on 25 Apr 1849 was Chwalborczyce Holendry. The
  record was in the Dabie Parish books but when I found the village
  (Chwalborczyce) using ShtelSeeker it was about 5 km southeast of the town of
  Dabie and just across the provincial border in Lodz. So now would this be
  "Chwalborczyce, (Dabie Parish), ?county-unknown?, Lodz, Poland"?  Which
  leads to a further question is there a definitive way to determine which
  powiat would be the correct name to use here? The convention seems to be
  that they are named after the largest city in the region but that is not
  easy to ascertain.

  OK, last question, where is the village of Gorki mentioned above - "Gorki,
  (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland"? Enter that in ShtelSeeker and you get
  93 potential places in Poland! Is there way to focus ShtelSeeker to a
  smaller region than just Poland as a whole?

  Thanks for your assistance and patience!
  Dave Proper
  dproper at charter.net






  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

From gary at warnerengineering.com  Sat Oct 10 10:20:34 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:20:34 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
In-Reply-To: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4AD0C262.6050307@warnerengineering.com>

Dave,

There has been a lot of debate at SGGEE about the proper way to enter 
village names. Many are still using the Family History Library method 
which uses the provinces that existed in Poland for only a few decades 
after World War II. The biggest problem with using that method as I see 
it is that you cannot use any modern mapping tool to find the village 
noted in that format, since most often the powiat (county has changed). 
There are also no precise maps which show those old boundaries, at least 
none that I have ever seen.

In the Master Pedigree Database (MPD) I am trying to make the switch to 
modern descriptions of locations. It is a slow process, but eventually 
we will make that switch complete. As an aid to specifying a village per 
the current powiat and wojewodztwo (state), we are using several sources.

They are

1. http://mapa.szukacz.pl
When you open this site, there is a blank field in the upper right 
corner of the screen that is labeled Miejscowo??. Enter the village you 
seek in this location and then hit enter. You will see the map of Poland 
redrawn with circles that represent the locations in Poland with 
villages of that name. You need to have some idea which is the correct 
area of Poland to narrow your search, but you are assisted by hovering 
over any circle and seeing the number of people who live in that place 
currently, the woj., pow. and gmina (smaller division than a county). If 
you click on the dot at the bottom of the window that appears when you 
hover, the map will zoom in to a large scale map of that location. You 
can adjust the scale by rolling the wheel on a wheel mouse, or by 
selecting a different scale by using the radio buttons next to the field 
where you enter the village name. Note that the full description of the 
village is shown in the area below where you entered the village name. 
Finally, you can find the exact coordinates for this village by clicking 
on the word wsp??rz?dne just below the full village name.

As an example, try entering in the village Nowe Budki (I picked a 
village of which there is only one in all of Poland- a rarity). The map 
zoomed in shows that this village is a bit northwest of Kolo, and we 
would enter the location as

Nowe Budki, Kolo, Wielkopolskie, Poland at coordinates 52 14 25 N 18 33 14 E

Note in the above that we have elected to not use the ski ending for the 
Powiat, but have instead used the name of the town for which the powiat 
is named- Kolo. The town is always easily identifiable from the powiat 
name- IF you have the map zoomed out to see the area around the village 
you are locating.

Note that while this map is pretty complete, it does NOT cover every 
village in Poland, and you MUST be able to spell the village name 
correctly to find it. You do not need to use the special Polish 
diacriticals, but as noted for the next map source the z with a dot over 
it may give you some problems using this source. If you cannot find a 
village that contains a dotted z, copy that letter from the word Poka? 
which is shown in red above where you entered the village name to do the 
search.

2. http://mapy.eholiday.pl/

This map source contains some villages that are not included in the map 
source noted above, but sadly this is also not a complete listing of all 
villages in Poland. Enter the village name you seek in the blue box at 
the upper left corner of the screen. Enter the letters SLOWLY, and you 
will see a listing of all of the villages that have that name in the 
database that runs this map site- be sure to look at villages that are 
close in spelling to the one you seek, as some villages are spelled 
slightly different on different maps.

Be aware that this site NEEDS at least two special Polish diacriticals 
to find the correct village- the dotted z and the slashed L. First try 
entering a village without those special characters, but if the special 
character is near the beginning of the village name, you will need to 
enter those special characters by copying them from the map site noted 
in 1. above- the dotted z from the word Poka?, and the slashed L from 
the word wsp??rz?dne. Click on the arrow that results from a successful 
search and see the fill location name in a baloon, and then click on the 
village name in that balloon to go to an enlarged map of that village 
location. Note that this map site uses the powiat name without the ski 
ending.

3. If neither of the above map tools work, then Shtetl Seeker 
(http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/) is still a good tool, but it is 
not as visual as the above two, since the results are displayed in a 
table instead of as points on a map.

4. Google Earth

Google Earth is sometimes a good way to find a village, since the 
database for that tool seems to have both the old and new names for a 
given village. You will need to have an idea which powiat the location 
is in when Google Earth gives you some choices. Again, this tool does 
not have all of the locations in Poland, and sometimes is much more 
limited in possibilites than any of the other tools noted above.


As Jerry Frank noted in another email, we plan on having a gazetteer on 
the website later this year, and this should help with a large number of 
the village locations, but it will also need to be updated as additional 
villages are found.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Dave Proper wrote:
> All,
> I had never worked with Polish place names until recently when Rose Ingram
> sent me a treasure trove of information about my Plotzke relations. I am
> entering the data into TMG and was struck by the variety of Polish place
> names and the seemingly various ways of recording them. I looked into the
> modern Polish place name conventions - gimas, powiat, voivdeship and
> country. Armed with that, I have a place named "Dabie, Kolo, Poznan,
> Poland". That seems to make sense, like municipality, county, province,
> county. But then I find place names recorded in family group sheets such as
> "Gorki, (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland". I understand that Gorki is
> obviously in the Dabie Parish and provides another level of information.
> Which do people prefer and why? 
>
> Another question: are there maps that delineate what the parish boundaries
> might have been during various time frames? For example, the birth place of
> Friedrich Wilhelm Plotzke on 25 Apr 1849 was Chwalborczyce Holendry. The
> record was in the Dabie Parish books but when I found the village
> (Chwalborczyce) using ShtelSeeker it was about 5 km southeast of the town of
> Dabie and just across the provincial border in Lodz. So now would this be
> "Chwalborczyce, (Dabie Parish), ?county-unknown?, Lodz, Poland"?  Which
> leads to a further question is there a definitive way to determine which
> powiat would be the correct name to use here? The convention seems to be
> that they are named after the largest city in the region but that is not
> easy to ascertain.
>
> OK, last question, where is the village of Gorki mentioned above - "Gorki,
> (Dabie Parish), Kolo, Poznan, Poland"? Enter that in ShtelSeeker and you get
> 93 potential places in Poland! Is there way to focus ShtelSeeker to a
> smaller region than just Poland as a whole?
>
> Thanks for your assistance and patience!
> Dave Proper
> dproper at charter.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From gmason001 at comcast.net  Sat Oct 10 12:03:45 2009
From: gmason001 at comcast.net (Greg Mason)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:03:45 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
In-Reply-To: <5C1CD861161940F0AA60FA89B0522925@Marsh>
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net> <4AD0929C.70809@shaw.ca>
	<5C1CD861161940F0AA60FA89B0522925@Marsh>
Message-ID: <2E016ADB-429A-490D-983D-5F8DD96E6C9B@comcast.net>

Amen!! I look forward to seeing the gazetteer and to converting my  
records to its format.  Not to further complicate this wonderful  
thread, but some years ago I decided to enter our relatives' life  
events using the political and ecclesiastical boundaries that existed  
at the time and the location  of the event. This solution has many of  
the pitfalls already discussed in this thread, but it also does add  
the clarity one needs when questioning why Onkel Jacob was a Russian  
soldier, etc.
Greg Mason
On Oct 10, 2009, at 10:52 AM, gpvjem wrote:

>    The gazetteer will be a real blessing!!
>
> John Marsch
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
>  The issue of governing districts in Poland is very complicated due to
>  many changes over the past 200 years.  Even the LDS files their
>  microfilms by a district convention in place after WW II that has no
>  relevance to today nor to pre WW II boundaries.  You can imagine  
> with a
>  database of over 450,000 names, that we get numerous variations on  
> how
>  that information is reported to us.  One of our volunteers in Germany
>  recently completed a gazetteer of all known villages where Germans  
> lived
>  in Russian Poland.  He standardized the system of location to the  
> modern
>  boundaries along with other detailed info.  Data entered into our
>  databases will be based on that so that we have a standard format.   
> This
>  gazetteer, which also includes parish names, will be made available  
> on
>  line later this year.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From dproper at charter.net  Sat Oct 10 19:52:27 2009
From: dproper at charter.net (Dave Proper)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:52:27 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
In-Reply-To: <mailman.190.1255195282.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <rEqK1c0020R6wX005EqKhc@charter.net>

All,

Thank you for responding! I may still be in the dark but there does appear
to be a light at the end of the tunnel. As I was reading the various
responses today I had the feeling that I had just turned over a rock and
found something perhaps better left in the dark! Or maybe not, but is far
more complicated then it seemed at first sight.
Thank you all!
Dave Proper
Medford, OR (USA)






From gary at warnerengineering.com  Sat Oct 10 21:25:12 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:25:12 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes and Polish place names
In-Reply-To: <2E016ADB-429A-490D-983D-5F8DD96E6C9B@comcast.net>
References: <qthw1c0010R6wX005thwh0@charter.net>
	<4AD0929C.70809@shaw.ca>	<5C1CD861161940F0AA60FA89B0522925@Marsh>
	<2E016ADB-429A-490D-983D-5F8DD96E6C9B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4AD15E28.5070702@warnerengineering.com>

To all,

Just remember that when you see the gazetteer, all locations in Poland 
will not be listed.   It will, in fact, be a listing of places where we 
know Germans were living, and it will be added to for a very long time 
as we find new locations where Germans lived in Poland.

Remember also that just like there are many people with the same given 
name, there are also many villages in Poland with the same name.   What 
makes them distinctive is what powiat (county) they are located in.

Gary Warner

Greg Mason wrote:
> Amen!! I look forward to seeing the gazetteer and to converting my  
> records to its format.  Not to further complicate this wonderful  
> thread, but some years ago I decided to enter our relatives' life  
> events using the political and ecclesiastical boundaries that existed  
> at the time and the location  of the event. This solution has many of  
> the pitfalls already discussed in this thread, but it also does add  
> the clarity one needs when questioning why Onkel Jacob was a Russian  
> soldier, etc.
> Greg Mason
> On Oct 10, 2009, at 10:52 AM, gpvjem wrote:
>
>   
>>    The gazetteer will be a real blessing!!
>>
>> John Marsch
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>>  The issue of governing districts in Poland is very complicated due to
>>  many changes over the past 200 years.  Even the LDS files their
>>  microfilms by a district convention in place after WW II that has no
>>  relevance to today nor to pre WW II boundaries.  You can imagine  
>> with a
>>  database of over 450,000 names, that we get numerous variations on  
>> how
>>  that information is reported to us.  One of our volunteers in Germany
>>  recently completed a gazetteer of all known villages where Germans  
>> lived
>>  in Russian Poland.  He standardized the system of location to the  
>> modern
>>  boundaries along with other detailed info.  Data entered into our
>>  databases will be based on that so that we have a standard format.   
>> This
>>  gazetteer, which also includes parish names, will be made available  
>> on
>>  line later this year.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From robinquilter at gmail.com  Sat Oct 10 22:08:23 2009
From: robinquilter at gmail.com (Robin Grube)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:08:23 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
Message-ID: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>

 Hello everyone;
When someone like me who is unfamiliar with records from this area gets all
confused, or encounters a brick wall, it is so easy to give up. I almost
have, but then I will read some really useful hints on this site.Thanks for
the recent discussions about villages with shared names,and how some German
village names can appear so differently on Polish maps. The upcoming
gazetteer will be a godsend. I think it will be useful to locate the
villages that appear on the same page as some family records I have found in
the St. Petersburg copies found on-line. Several of you wrote me after my
recent inquiry about the Herrmann name in the area of Kiev. The messages
were basically telling me nicely that I need to develop better research
skills, and I agree. I again want to give thanks for the patience of you
experienced listers with those of us just starting in this confusing part of
the world.
Robin Grube


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Sat Oct 10 22:15:20 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
In-Reply-To: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com>

Robin,

The St. Petersburg villages are in Volhynia, not Poland, so a separate 
gazetteer will have to be developed for that area as well, and is in 
process.

Volhynia is a confusing area to do research, no matter how long you have 
been researching it.

Gary Warner

Robin Grube wrote:
>  Hello everyone;
> When someone like me who is unfamiliar with records from this area gets all
> confused, or encounters a brick wall, it is so easy to give up. I almost
> have, but then I will read some really useful hints on this site.Thanks for
> the recent discussions about villages with shared names,and how some German
> village names can appear so differently on Polish maps. The upcoming
> gazetteer will be a godsend. I think it will be useful to locate the
> villages that appear on the same page as some family records I have found in
> the St. Petersburg copies found on-line. Several of you wrote me after my
> recent inquiry about the Herrmann name in the area of Kiev. The messages
> were basically telling me nicely that I need to develop better research
> skills, and I agree. I again want to give thanks for the patience of you
> experienced listers with those of us just starting in this confusing part of
> the world.
> Robin Grube
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From colnels at telus.net  Sat Oct 10 22:43:24 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:43:24 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
In-Reply-To: <4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>

Hello Gary:
I do not want to confuse the issue, but was Volhynia not divided into a
Polish Volhynia and a Russian Volhynia? Or am I mixed up too? Seems to me
that the Tzar and Fredrick from Prussia divided Poland between themselves. 
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Gary
Warner
Sent: October-10-09 11:15 PM
To: Robin Grube
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes

Robin,

The St. Petersburg villages are in Volhynia, not Poland, so a separate
gazetteer will have to be developed for that area as well, and is in
process.

Volhynia is a confusing area to do research, no matter how long you have
been researching it.

Gary Warner

Robin Grube wrote:
>  Hello everyone;
> When someone like me who is unfamiliar with records from this area 
> gets all confused, or encounters a brick wall, it is so easy to give 
> up. I almost have, but then I will read some really useful hints on 
> this site.Thanks for the recent discussions about villages with shared 
> names,and how some German village names can appear so differently on 
> Polish maps. The upcoming gazetteer will be a godsend. I think it will 
> be useful to locate the villages that appear on the same page as some 
> family records I have found in the St. Petersburg copies found 
> on-line. Several of you wrote me after my recent inquiry about the 
> Herrmann name in the area of Kiev. The messages were basically telling 
> me nicely that I need to develop better research skills, and I agree. 
> I again want to give thanks for the patience of you experienced 
> listers with those of us just starting in this confusing part of the
world.
> Robin Grube
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2427 - Release Date: 10/10/09
06:39:00



From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Sun Oct 11 05:36:31 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 06:36:31 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
In-Reply-To: <000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com>
	<000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>
Message-ID: <4AD1D14F.1070008@shaw.ca>

Poland was split up between Russia, Prussia, and Austria in the late 
1700s.  The majority of German migration into Polish regions took place 
shortly after that and on into the 19th century.  We certainly have to 
be aware of that change as well but it generally does not have as great 
an impact on finding on place of residence as does the numerous changes 
to parish and county boundaries.

Volhynia was only split between Poland and Russia for 19 years, 1920 
through 1939.  Again we must be aware of this, especially if our 
ancestors left the region after WW I.


Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



Nelson Itterman wrote:
> Hello Gary:
> I do not want to confuse the issue, but was Volhynia not divided into a
> Polish Volhynia and a Russian Volhynia? Or am I mixed up too? Seems to me
> that the Tzar and Fredrick from Prussia divided Poland between themselves. 
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Gary
> Warner
> Sent: October-10-09 11:15 PM
> To: Robin Grube
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
>
> Robin,
>
> The St. Petersburg villages are in Volhynia, not Poland, so a separate
> gazetteer will have to be developed for that area as well, and is in
> process.
>
> Volhynia is a confusing area to do research, no matter how long you have
> been researching it.
>
> Gary Warner
>
> Robin Grube wrote:
>   
>>  Hello everyone;
>> When someone like me who is unfamiliar with records from this area 
>> gets all confused, or encounters a brick wall, it is so easy to give 
>> up. I almost have, but then I will read some really useful hints on 
>> this site.Thanks for the recent discussions about villages with shared 
>> names,and how some German village names can appear so differently on 
>> Polish maps. The upcoming gazetteer will be a godsend. I think it will 
>> be useful to locate the villages that appear on the same page as some 
>> family records I have found in the St. Petersburg copies found 
>> on-line. Several of you wrote me after my recent inquiry about the 
>> Herrmann name in the area of Kiev. The messages were basically telling 
>> me nicely that I need to develop better research skills, and I agree. 
>> I again want to give thanks for the patience of you experienced 
>> listers with those of us just starting in this confusing part of the
>>     
> world.
>   
>> Robin Grube
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
>> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
>> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2427 - Release Date: 10/10/09
> 06:39:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Sun Oct 11 09:01:09 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:01:09 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
In-Reply-To: <000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com>
	<000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>
Message-ID: <4AD20145.3020906@warnerengineering.com>

Nelson,

This group is too smart.   If anyone makes a misstatement, someone will 
catch it.  

Yes, of course, what was the western part of Volhynia was part of 
eastern Poland between the two World Wars.   I am invoking additional 
corrections, but I believe that may be why we have the more complete 
records for western Volhynia than we do for eastern Volhynia.

Gary

Nelson Itterman wrote:
> Hello Gary:
> I do not want to confuse the issue, but was Volhynia not divided into a
> Polish Volhynia and a Russian Volhynia? Or am I mixed up too? Seems to me
> that the Tzar and Fredrick from Prussia divided Poland between themselves. 
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Gary
> Warner
> Sent: October-10-09 11:15 PM
> To: Robin Grube
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
>
> Robin,
>
> The St. Petersburg villages are in Volhynia, not Poland, so a separate
> gazetteer will have to be developed for that area as well, and is in
> process.
>
> Volhynia is a confusing area to do research, no matter how long you have
> been researching it.
>
> Gary Warner
>
> Robin Grube wrote:
>   
>>  Hello everyone;
>> When someone like me who is unfamiliar with records from this area 
>> gets all confused, or encounters a brick wall, it is so easy to give 
>> up. I almost have, but then I will read some really useful hints on 
>> this site.Thanks for the recent discussions about villages with shared 
>> names,and how some German village names can appear so differently on 
>> Polish maps. The upcoming gazetteer will be a godsend. I think it will 
>> be useful to locate the villages that appear on the same page as some 
>> family records I have found in the St. Petersburg copies found 
>> on-line. Several of you wrote me after my recent inquiry about the 
>> Herrmann name in the area of Kiev. The messages were basically telling 
>> me nicely that I need to develop better research skills, and I agree. 
>> I again want to give thanks for the patience of you experienced 
>> listers with those of us just starting in this confusing part of the
>>     
> world.
>   
>> Robin Grube
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
>> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
>> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2427 - Release Date: 10/10/09
> 06:39:00
>
>   


From roseingram at shaw.ca  Sun Oct 11 09:33:01 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:33:01 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Happy Thanksgiving
Message-ID: <002a01ca4a90$7fb62530$6601a8c0@duocore>

Happy Thanksgiving to all the Canadians on this list.

Rose Ingram

From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Sun Oct 11 21:49:15 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:49:15 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] SGGEE Convention Pictures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <4035C23667774EEF866834BCA59E97A5@Desktop>

 
If anyone has pictures from this year's SGGEE/FEEFHS Convention in Milwaukee
that they would be interested in sharing for publication in the SGGEE
Journal, please send them to editor at sggee.org.  Please provide names of
people appearing, if possible.

When sending large files, please do not send anything over 5 MB and space
the pictures at least 15 minutes apart so they can be downloaded before
filling my mailbox.  Files over 5 MB can be sent by using a file transfer
utility such as www.YOUSENDIT.COM.

Thanks.

Earl
Editor, SGGEE Journal



From GHBoehm at ish.de  Mon Oct 12 00:46:11 2009
From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?windows-1252?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:46:11 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
In-Reply-To: <4AD20145.3020906@warnerengineering.com>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com><4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com><000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>
	<4AD20145.3020906@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <4AD2DEC3.7010900@ish.de>

Nelson Itterman wrote:

> > Hello Gary:
> > I do not want to confuse the issue, but was Volhynia not divided into a
> > Polish Volhynia and a Russian Volhynia? Or am I mixed up too? Seems to me
> > that the Tzar and Fredrick from Prussia divided Poland between themselves. 
> > Nelson

Nelson,
after the first partition of Poland in 1772 - the only one in the 
lifetime of Frederick II. - Volhynia still belonged to Poland, i.e. the 
Polish?Lithuanian Commonwealth which in fact was a protectorate of the 
Russian Empire and object of its armed extortions. The second partition 
of 1793 divided Volhynia a bit east of R?wne into a Polish and a Russian 
section. The Prussian king at that time was Frederick William II., a 
nephew of Frederick II.

G?nther


From wjmilner at shaw.ca  Mon Oct 12 07:32:12 2009
From: wjmilner at shaw.ca (Jack Milner)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:32:12 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Partitioning of Poland
In-Reply-To: <4AD2DEC3.7010900@ish.de>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com>
	<000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>
	<4AD20145.3020906@warnerengineering.com> <4AD2DEC3.7010900@ish.de>
Message-ID: <4AD33DEC.4030400@shaw.ca>

History revisited (condensed version)

Volhynia had been a feudal province with a Polish aristocracy and 
Ukrainian serfs, ruled by Poland until the late 18th century, when 
Poland was partitioned by the Prussian, Austrian, and Russian empires. 
Prussia, Russia, and Austria had already annexed parts of Poland in 1772 
and 1793. During the third partition in 1795, Poland's last remaining 
territory was occupied by the three partitioning powers, which resulted 
in the disappearance of Poland from the European map.

Jack Milner


G?nther B?hm wrote:

>Nelson Itterman wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>Hello Gary:
>>>I do not want to confuse the issue, but was Volhynia not divided into a
>>>Polish Volhynia and a Russian Volhynia? Or am I mixed up too? Seems to me
>>>that the Tzar and Fredrick from Prussia divided Poland between themselves. 
>>>Nelson
>>>      
>>>
>
>Nelson,
>after the first partition of Poland in 1772 - the only one in the 
>lifetime of Frederick II. - Volhynia still belonged to Poland, i.e. the 
>Polish?Lithuanian Commonwealth which in fact was a protectorate of the 
>Russian Empire and object of its armed extortions. The second partition 
>of 1793 divided Volhynia a bit east of R?wne into a Polish and a Russian 
>section. The Prussian king at that time was Frederick William II., a 
>nephew of Frederick II.
>
>G?nther
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>  
>



From colnels at telus.net  Mon Oct 12 09:04:44 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:04:44 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes
In-Reply-To: <4AD2DEC3.7010900@ish.de>
References: <d61d61810910102208m553b0201gdff70fd3910b83f6@mail.gmail.com><4AD169E8.9040102@warnerengineering.com><000a01ca4a35$c019aa30$404cfe90$@net>	<4AD20145.3020906@warnerengineering.com>
	<4AD2DEC3.7010900@ish.de>
Message-ID: <000301ca4b55$b7481ba0$25d852e0$@net>

Thank you Gunther for that brief history lesson. 
It was after that that my GrGrGrandfather Jakob Ittermann came from Oest
Preussen to Volhynia. My GrGrandfather Christian was born in Rudinka
Volhynia on the 27th of February 1832. He married Luise Berwoldt (Baerwald)
on 15 December 1847 in Kolonie Chotinka, Volhynia and my Grandfather Peter
was born on 10 March 1848 in the Kolonie Wulka, Rovno, Volhynia, which was
then in Polish Volhynia.
Christian's marriage certificate did not tell who his mother was. It did say
that Luise's father was Martin.
Nelson


-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of G?nther
B?hm
Sent: October-12-09 1:46 AM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish parishes

Nelson Itterman wrote:

> > Hello Gary:
> > I do not want to confuse the issue, but was Volhynia not divided 
> > into a Polish Volhynia and a Russian Volhynia? Or am I mixed up too? 
> > Seems to me that the Tzar and Fredrick from Prussia divided Poland
between themselves.
> > Nelson

Nelson,
after the first partition of Poland in 1772 - the only one in the lifetime
of Frederick II. - Volhynia still belonged to Poland, i.e. the
Polish?Lithuanian Commonwealth which in fact was a protectorate of the
Russian Empire and object of its armed extortions. The second partition of
1793 divided Volhynia a bit east of R?wne into a Polish and a Russian
section. The Prussian king at that time was Frederick William II., a nephew
of Frederick II.

G?nther

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.11/2430 - Release Date: 10/12/09
04:01:00




From dr.stewner at t-online.de  Mon Oct 12 12:41:20 2009
From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:41:20 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia
Message-ID: <498819C52CEC46A3B7E15269DB411E03@Acer>

History is difficult in that area.
- before 1772 Greater Poland went up to nearly Kiev and covered total Volhynia.
- 1. partition in 1772 left Volhynia unchanged
- 2. partition in 1793 devided Volhynia into a western (Poland) and eastern part (Russia) east of Rowno as Guenther said.
- 3. partition in 1795 all Poland is devided between the Austrian-, German- and Russian Empire.
- 1806 Napoleon changed that
- 1815 the Vienna Congress remodeled Eastern Europe and Volynia belonged still to Russia up to the end of WW I.
- 1919 Poland reappeared on the map and Volhynia was devided between Poland (Oblast Volynski and Rivne). The Oblast Zhytomir stayed part of Russia.

Thus when we consider the timespan of 1815 to 1919 Volhynia belonged entirely to Russia.

Frank Stewner





From michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de  Mon Oct 12 13:16:31 2009
From: michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de (Michael Stockhausen)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:16:31 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
Message-ID: <AAE3FEDBFB57424799A48414D154CD3F@name54xk1bba18>

My friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage 
record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately, 
neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and names).

Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic information, no 
complete translation. I can send a scan.

Thank you.

Michael (Stockhausen) 



From Krampetz at aol.com  Mon Oct 12 19:17:19 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:17:19 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
Message-ID: <cf1.609f46a8.38053d2f@aol.com>

A polish website _http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml_ 
(http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml) 
offers  translations of the old Cyrillic handwriting,  it  will
be given in Polish - but, Digital polish can be ably translated 
by Google.    You may get lucky and find someone that can 
translate directly to English,  but I'm told that old Cyrillic 
isn't easy.  
You may need to use Google translate of that site to figure 
out how to join and post your request.
 
I had 12 documents very well done earlier this year.
 
Bob
 
 
In a message dated 10/12/2009 1:21:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de writes:

My  friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage  
record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately,  
neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and  
names).

Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic  information, 
no 
complete translation. I can send a scan.

Thank  you.

Michael (Stockhausen) 



From udo-edelgard at freenet.de  Tue Oct 13 02:38:03 2009
From: udo-edelgard at freenet.de (Edelgard Strobel)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:38:03 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
References: <AAE3FEDBFB57424799A48414D154CD3F@name54xk1bba18>
Message-ID: <734AC6F4D18645B6A880B05F86564298@acer747b59264e>

Hallo Michael,

lass' es mich versuchen (let me try it).

Gr??e

Edelgard


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Stockhausen" <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:16 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian


> My friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage
> record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately,
> neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and 
> names).
>
> Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic information, 
> no
> complete translation. I can send a scan.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Michael (Stockhausen)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> 



From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 13 06:14:26 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 06:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
In-Reply-To: <AAE3FEDBFB57424799A48414D154CD3F@name54xk1bba18>
Message-ID: <57971.87390.qm@web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

If you are devoted you can teach yourself. SGGEE has some pages based in English to help you learn how to read the essentials of handwritten Cyrillic documents at the URL below.

http://www.sggee.org/research/rus_translate/general_intro.html

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Michael Stockhausen <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de> wrote:

From: Michael Stockhausen <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 4:16 PM

My friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage 
record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately, 
neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and names).

Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic information, no 
complete translation. I can send a scan.

Thank you.

Michael (Stockhausen) 


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



      

From mackzie at tds.net  Mon Oct 12 16:19:12 2009
From: mackzie at tds.net (Beth Burke)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:19:12 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <498819C52CEC46A3B7E15269DB411E03@Acer>
References: <498819C52CEC46A3B7E15269DB411E03@Acer>
Message-ID: <006301ca4b92$6aaa1400$3ffe3c00$@net>

Are there individual maps available that show the individual years, the
changes in the boundaries and who was responsible (i.e. Poland, Russia,
etc)?

Also, is there a good Polish history book that one could read (and
understand) to help a novice like me?

Beth Burke
Verona, WI
Researching Lieske, Liske, Pinkowski, Friedrich, Glor, Zellmer, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dr.
Frank Stewner
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 2:41 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia

History is difficult in that area.
- before 1772 Greater Poland went up to nearly Kiev and covered total
Volhynia.
- 1. partition in 1772 left Volhynia unchanged
- 2. partition in 1793 devided Volhynia into a western (Poland) and eastern
part (Russia) east of Rowno as Guenther said.
- 3. partition in 1795 all Poland is devided between the Austrian-, German-
and Russian Empire.
- 1806 Napoleon changed that
- 1815 the Vienna Congress remodeled Eastern Europe and Volynia belonged
still to Russia up to the end of WW I.
- 1919 Poland reappeared on the map and Volhynia was devided between Poland
(Oblast Volynski and Rivne). The Oblast Zhytomir stayed part of Russia.

Thus when we consider the timespan of 1815 to 1919 Volhynia belonged
entirely to Russia.

Frank Stewner




_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From mpzbest at mwwb.net  Tue Oct 13 23:51:03 2009
From: mpzbest at mwwb.net (Mark P. Zellmer)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:51:03 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Researching Surnames Zellmer Bremer Drews
	Klug Lang
Message-ID: <4B4948DB7FAB40B89F08D72207A05B90@OwnerPC>

Please send any responses and information to mpzbest at mwwb.net Prussia Poland Germany Posen area Pommern Pomerania Klawittersdorf Thank You Sincerely Mark P. Zellmer

From mpzbest at mwwb.net  Tue Oct 13 23:40:59 2009
From: mpzbest at mwwb.net (Mark P. Zellmer)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:40:59 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] I am searching for surnames Zellmer Bremer
	Drews Klug Lang Long
Message-ID: <59540D8ADAD147508D5F6A4A05A0B260@OwnerPC>

I have a Johann Zellmer born about 1790s Posen area perhaps Klawittersdorf Pommern Pomerania he married a Suzanne Bremer they had a son Christof born 1818 he married Augusta Drews they had 7 children and came to USA 1868 I will be very appreciative of any help or information I will pay for accurate verified information or exchange and share Happily assist in research for any help I have searched to no avail Zellmer Zillmer Zelmen Zemler Selmer Selman Cilmer Zellmeyer any spelling may prove a match Bremer Brehmer Drews Klug Kluge Lang Long Lange Please help if You can send any response to mpzbest at mwwb.net Thank You Sincerely Mark P. Zellmer

From mpzbest at mwwb.net  Tue Oct 13 23:19:42 2009
From: mpzbest at mwwb.net (Mark P. Zellmer)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:19:42 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] I am in search of Surname Zellmer Lang Bremer
	Drews Klug
Message-ID: <143432FBA03144128FA2B829E56BCAC6@OwnerPC>

I have a Johann Zellmer born 1790s Posen area Klawittersdorf perhaps Pommern Pomerania he married Suzzanne Bremer they had a son Christof born 1818 he married Augusta Drews they had 7 children and came to USA 1868 I will exchange any information I have or help with research Any information or facts I can get will be greatly appreciated I would pay for accurate verified information also searching Lang Long Brehmer Sellmer ZIllmer Zoellner Zelman Selman Cillmer Zellmeyer Zellmer and most any other spelling please send any response to mpzbest at mwwb.net Thank You Sincerely Mark P. Zellmer

From mag_ton at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 14 04:18:54 2009
From: mag_ton at yahoo.com (Tony & Magda)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:18:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Record from Radom
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1255460403.28127.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <546181.31486.qm@web112420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

?? How did he obtain it ?? I am having trouble getting a response even for an 1882 birth record and a post - 10-- death record? in Zambrow .Can contacting a Polish consulate in NYC help with it ???

Magda 

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org> wrote:

From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 13
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 3:00 PM

Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."


Today's Topics:

???1. Poland and Volhynia (Dr. Frank Stewner)
???2. Russian (Michael Stockhausen)
???3. Re: Russian (Krampetz at aol.com)
???4. Re: Russian (Edelgard Strobel)
???5. Re: Russian (Karl Krueger)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:41:20 +0200
From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" <dr.stewner at t-online.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <498819C52CEC46A3B7E15269DB411E03 at Acer>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="iso-8859-1"

History is difficult in that area.
- before 1772 Greater Poland went up to nearly Kiev and covered total Volhynia.
- 1. partition in 1772 left Volhynia unchanged
- 2. partition in 1793 devided Volhynia into a western (Poland) and eastern part (Russia) east of Rowno as Guenther said.
- 3. partition in 1795 all Poland is devided between the Austrian-, German- and Russian Empire.
- 1806 Napoleon changed that
- 1815 the Vienna Congress remodeled Eastern Europe and Volynia belonged still to Russia up to the end of WW I.
- 1919 Poland reappeared on the map and Volhynia was devided between Poland (Oblast Volynski and Rivne). The Oblast Zhytomir stayed part of Russia.

Thus when we consider the timespan of 1815 to 1919 Volhynia belonged entirely to Russia.

Frank Stewner





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:16:31 +0200
From: "Michael Stockhausen" <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <AAE3FEDBFB57424799A48414D154CD3F at name54xk1bba18>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
??? reply-type=response

My friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage 
record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately, 
neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and names).

Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic information, no 
complete translation. I can send a scan.

Thank you.

Michael (Stockhausen) 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:17:19 EDT
From: Krampetz at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
To: michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de,
??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <cf1.609f46a8.38053d2f at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

A polish website _http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml_ 
(http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml) 
offers? translations of the old Cyrillic handwriting,? it? will
be given in Polish - but, Digital polish can be ably translated 
by Google.? ? You may get lucky and find someone that can 
translate directly to English,? but I'm told that old Cyrillic 
isn't easy.? 
You may need to use Google translate of that site to figure 
out how to join and post your request.
 
I had 12 documents very well done earlier this year.
 
Bob
 
 
In a message dated 10/12/2009 1:21:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,? 
michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de writes:

My? friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage? 
record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately,? 
neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and? 
names).

Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic? information, 
no 
complete translation. I can send a scan.

Thank? you.

Michael (Stockhausen) 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:38:03 +0200
From: "Edelgard Strobel" <udo-edelgard at freenet.de>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
To: "Michael Stockhausen" <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <734AC6F4D18645B6A880B05F86564298 at acer747b59264e>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
??? reply-type=original

Hallo Michael,

lass' es mich versuchen (let me try it).

Gr??e

Edelgard


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Stockhausen" <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:16 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian


> My friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage
> record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately,
> neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and 
> names).
>
> Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic information, 
> no
> complete translation. I can send a scan.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Michael (Stockhausen)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> 



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 06:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org,??? Michael Stockhausen
??? <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
Message-ID: <57971.87390.qm at web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If you are devoted you can teach yourself. SGGEE has some pages based in English to help you learn how to read the essentials of handwritten Cyrillic documents at the URL below.

http://www.sggee.org/research/rus_translate/general_intro.html

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Michael Stockhausen <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de> wrote:

From: Michael Stockhausen <michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 4:16 PM

My friend in the US has now received a copy of his grandparents' marriage 
record from Radom. As expected, it is written in Russian. Unfortunately, 
neither he nor I can really read it (I can only read a few words and names).

Could someone kindly assist me? I would just need the basic information, no 
complete translation. I can send a scan.

Thank you.

Michael (Stockhausen) 


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



? ? ? 

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html


End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 13
***************************************************



      

From gmason001 at comcast.net  Wed Oct 14 04:32:11 2009
From: gmason001 at comcast.net (Greg Mason)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:32:11 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <006301ca4b92$6aaa1400$3ffe3c00$@net>
References: <498819C52CEC46A3B7E15269DB411E03@Acer>
	<006301ca4b92$6aaa1400$3ffe3c00$@net>
Message-ID: <AA3DD07F-A01A-4739-AC57-8F803999FBB6@comcast.net>

Beth ( and the list):  I have used a couple of references over the  
years that I have found to be comprehensive and relatively easy to  
understand:

"The Lands of Partitioned Poland, 1795-1918"  by Piotr S. Wandycz,  
published by University of Washington Press as volume VII of their "A  
History of East Central Europe" series.  For maps and graphics, the  
companion Volume I of the same series, "Historical Atlas of East  
Central Europe" by Paul Robert Magocsi.  However, if a village you are  
researching is close to one of the many changing boundaries , this map  
book does not contain large enough scale maps to precisely pinpoint  
such locations with respect to changes.  (But there are other maps  
available for such research and I'm sure Jerry Frank can point you in  
the right direction on that.)

Hope this is helpful.  Greg Mason


On Oct 12, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Beth Burke wrote:

> Are there individual maps available that show the individual years,  
> the
> changes in the boundaries and who was responsible (i.e. Poland,  
> Russia,
> etc)?
>
> Also, is there a good Polish history book that one could read (and
> understand) to help a novice like me?
>
> Beth Burke
> Verona, WI
> Researching Lieske, Liske, Pinkowski, Friedrich, Glor, Zellmer, etc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of  
> Dr.
> Frank Stewner
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 2:41 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia
>
> History is difficult in that area.
> - before 1772 Greater Poland went up to nearly Kiev and covered total
> Volhynia.
> - 1. partition in 1772 left Volhynia unchanged
> - 2. partition in 1793 devided Volhynia into a western (Poland) and  
> eastern
> part (Russia) east of Rowno as Guenther said.
> - 3. partition in 1795 all Poland is devided between the Austrian-,  
> German-
> and Russian Empire.
> - 1806 Napoleon changed that
> - 1815 the Vienna Congress remodeled Eastern Europe and Volynia  
> belonged
> still to Russia up to the end of WW I.
> - 1919 Poland reappeared on the map and Volhynia was devided between  
> Poland
> (Oblast Volynski and Rivne). The Oblast Zhytomir stayed part of  
> Russia.
>
> Thus when we consider the timespan of 1815 to 1919 Volhynia belonged
> entirely to Russia.
>
> Frank Stewner
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Wed Oct 14 06:45:26 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:45:26 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia
References: <498819C52CEC46A3B7E15269DB411E03@Acer>
	<006301ca4b92$6aaa1400$3ffe3c00$@net>
Message-ID: <5C45208398CC4A0292FD9862F233655B@Marsh>

Beth:
    Legacy has animated map software available for purchase that shows about 9000 border changes for Europe and the Middle East with explanatory history.  You may wish to see a preview at this site http://www.millenniacorp.com/_videos/centennia/centennia.htm 

John Marsch

-----------------------------------------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Beth Burke 
  To: 'Dr. Frank Stewner' ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 5:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia


  Are there individual maps available that show the individual years, the
  changes in the boundaries and who was responsible (i.e. Poland, Russia,
  etc)?

  Also, is there a good Polish history book that one could read (and
  understand) to help a novice like me?

  Beth Burke
  Verona, WI
  Researching Lieske, Liske, Pinkowski, Friedrich, Glor, Zellmer, etc.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
  [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dr.
  Frank Stewner
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 2:41 PM
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland and Volhynia

  History is difficult in that area.
  - before 1772 Greater Poland went up to nearly Kiev and covered total
  Volhynia.
  - 1. partition in 1772 left Volhynia unchanged
  - 2. partition in 1793 devided Volhynia into a western (Poland) and eastern
  part (Russia) east of Rowno as Guenther said.
  - 3. partition in 1795 all Poland is devided between the Austrian-, German-
  and Russian Empire.
  - 1806 Napoleon changed that
  - 1815 the Vienna Congress remodeled Eastern Europe and Volynia belonged
  still to Russia up to the end of WW I.
  - 1919 Poland reappeared on the map and Volhynia was devided between Poland
  (Oblast Volynski and Rivne). The Oblast Zhytomir stayed part of Russia.

  Thus when we consider the timespan of 1815 to 1919 Volhynia belonged
  entirely to Russia.

  Frank Stewner






From Krampetz at aol.com  Wed Oct 14 20:56:21 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:56:21 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Looking for articles relating to Barany (near
	Lipno)
Message-ID: <c4e.5c28d9de.3807f765@aol.com>

Some time back I obtained a map of the village of Barany  (near Lipno)  
Poland.
The map showed where the 40+ homes were and who lived in them,  in the  
early 1930's.   My family name  (Krampitz) show in 3 homes, as  well as the 
family 
names of different witnesses;  to my grandfather and other  sibling's 
births. 
(It's a very nice piece for my genealogy collection)
 
An article that went with the map was included.  As I translated  it, ( 
"Aus meinem
Leben, von Edmund Fercho") it made little sense (it was more about  WWII 
experiences).   I just learned that it was 1 of 3 articles on  Barany,  and 
apparently
the wrong one to go with the map.
 
The article came from the book:
   "Deutsche Doerfer im Kreis Lipno, Dobriner Land  (Polen)"
Elfriede Eichelkraut geb.  Tomm
Wuppertal, Juni  1996         
The other two of the three articles on Barany in it are: 
   Mein Geburtsort, meine Heimat - Barany, von Erhard  Liedke
   Barany, von Elfriede Eichelkraut
(see: _http://www.kerntopf.com/dobrin/literatur/index.htm_ 
(http://www.kerntopf.com/dobrin/literatur/index.htm) 
     for content page)
 
The article I already have is: Aus meinem Leben, von Edmund Fercho  
I would very much appreciate copies of the other two.
(or specifically the one that has that map of Barany with it)
 
Danke
Bob Krampetz
 (researching Krampitz von Dobrina land)
 
 
 


From invite+zj4ooost_oj9 at facebookmail.com  Fri Oct 16 15:44:43 2009
From: invite+zj4ooost_oj9 at facebookmail.com (James Geike Sr.)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:44:43 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Check out my photos on Facebook
Message-ID: <7c2b9f760e1bd2c18d0e5e11e0a76008@localhost.localdomain>


I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
James

To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000403836892&k=Z6E3Y5S2VV4AWKFJPB63QTRZVP1K5U6NUWETD1VGWQ&r



Already have an account? Add this email address to your account http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&i=100000403836892&k=Z6E3Y5S2VV4AWKFJPB63QTRZVP1K5U6NUWETD1VGWQ.ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org was invited to join Facebook by James Geike Sr. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe.
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=d7346a&u=100000395538180&mid=142f488G5af3280daf04G0G8
Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304.



From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Fri Oct 16 19:52:10 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:52:10 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Check out my photos on Facebook
In-Reply-To: <7c2b9f760e1bd2c18d0e5e11e0a76008@localhost.localdomain>
References: <7c2b9f760e1bd2c18d0e5e11e0a76008@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <d0d9b80111836.4ad8dcfa@shaw.ca>

To all list members,

Please do not respond to this generic posting.? I have already contacted the poster.

Thank you.

Jerry Frank
SGGEE List Administrator



----- Original Message -----
From: "James Geike Sr." <invite+zj4ooost_oj9 at facebookmail.com>
Date: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Check out my photos on Facebook
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> 
> I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos 
> and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. 
> First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also 
> create your own profile.
> 
> Thanks,
> James
> 
> To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
> http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000403836892&k=Z6E3Y5S2VV4AWKFJPB63QTRZVP1K5U6NUWETD1VGWQ&r
> 
> 
> 
> Already have an account? Add this email address to your account 
> http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&i=100000403836892&k=Z6E3Y5S2VV4AWKFJPB63QTRZVP1K5U6NUWETD1VGWQ.ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org was invited to join Facebook by James Geike Sr. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe.
> http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=d7346a&u=100000395538180&mid=142f488G5af3280daf04G0G8
> Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo 
> Alto, CA 94304.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From lindag.shepherd at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 08:57:04 2009
From: lindag.shepherd at gmail.com (Linda Shepherd)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:57:04 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] A new member
Message-ID: <7ca15950910170857u5db41465s7883a166d88fc14d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,
My name is Linda, I live in France and  have ancestors that span
Brandenburg, East Prussia, Poland and Holland!
I  have just joined this group in the hope some of you may be able to help
me locate information about part of my family that came from East Prussia
and Poland.
At the moment I am researching Johann Heinrich Thim (Thiem, Thieme) I have
quite a lot of information about his work with the Dutch East India Company.
Amongst the records I have is reference to his portrait that may be in a
Danzig archive/museum. It was made following his death in 1696 when his
ship, the Koning William sank on the Flemish coast. The portrait was a
copper etching by a Dutch artist named Blooteling. There is an inscription
on this protrait which reads ' K?niglich Polnischer Kammeredelmann und
Inhaber eines Regiments von Fussknechten' This portrait also shows a crest
with the nine pointed count's crown. The text I have, written  in 1937 by
Paul Thiem, a descendant,  reads as follows:
....auf dem Portr?tstich befindliches Wappen, welches mit einer neunzackigen
Grafenkrone geschmuckt ist und in dem rot-silber geteilten Schild den das
ganze Schild bedeckenden Anker zeigt, welcher auf seine seem?nnische
T?tigkeit hinweist und die Unterschrift "J'aspire" tr?gt. The writer goes on
to suppose that this crest may have been given to him by the Polish King
following his service as 'Kommandant der Festung Weichselm?nde in 1683 -
although he questions this.

Here are my first questions:

I wonder, does anyone have access to archives that could check this out for
me?
 Does the original of this portrait exist anywhere?
Is there any further information available about the gift of this crest -
how did he have the right to it?
Are there any pictures of it?
Where was Weichselm?nde - what was the history surrounding this period?
Paul wondered whether the Warsaw archives may hold further information about
him - he mentions 'Archiwum Glowny, Warszawa'

The other query I have is about Johann's children. He had four. At the time
of writing, Paul Thiem had been unable to establish what happened to them
after Johann's death. He did not know whether they remained in Holland or
whether they relocated to the fatherland.

As far as I can tell they were all born in Amsterdam:
Barber Thim - 2/06/1665
Jacomijna Thim - 17/04/1670
Geertrudijda Thim - 18/10/1671
Jan Nicolai Thim - 8/09/1673

Thank you for any light you may be able to shed on this for me.
Yours sincerely Linda Shepherd


From hildebrnd2 at aol.com  Sat Oct 17 14:18:51 2009
From: hildebrnd2 at aol.com (hildebrnd2@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:18:51 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
In-Reply-To: <7c2b9f760e1bd2c18d0e5e11e0a76008@localhost.localdomain>
References: <7c2b9f760e1bd2c18d0e5e11e0a76008@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <8CC1D868F4E64BC-6144-1E74@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>


I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?

Thanks!

Robin Hildebrand





From colnels at telus.net  Sat Oct 17 19:38:54 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:38:54 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
In-Reply-To: <8CC1D868F4E64BC-6144-1E74@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>
References: <7c2b9f760e1bd2c18d0e5e11e0a76008@localhost.localdomain>
	<8CC1D868F4E64BC-6144-1E74@webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca4f9c$22ec3b80$68c4b280$@net>

Hello Robin:
You just sent a message. Just carry on and ask your questions.
Nelson


-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
hildebrnd2 at aol.com
Sent: October-17-09 3:19 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings


I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?

Thanks!

Robin Hildebrand




_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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13:08:00



From lindag.shepherd at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 23:43:57 2009
From: lindag.shepherd at gmail.com (Linda Shepherd)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:43:57 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Johann Heinrich Thim - parents
Message-ID: <7ca15950910172343n62942223q3c90a4920c3e2750@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,
Thanks so much for the information that you are sending through. Here is
some more information about Johann's parents -

*Johann Heinrich Thim (Tim) 1636 ? 1695*
  Married Jacomijntje Claes in  3 0th May 1664 in Amsterdam ? recorded in
Amsterdam Parish       archive

*Dutch spelling of his name: Jan Hendricksz Tim*

*                *Born in Danzig

                Parents:               Johann Thym  ? Danzig citizen;
businessman ?died before 27th November   1671

                                                Dorothea Klawitter

                Sister: Elizabeth Thim    married to   Tobias Grebingh

I'd love to have a little bit more information about the parents if it is
out there!


Best wishes

Linda


From sburke091 at comcast.net  Sat Oct 17 14:37:27 2009
From: sburke091 at comcast.net (Sandy Burke)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:37:27 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
Message-ID: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>

Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were Lutheran.
Sandy

From ra_stein at telus.net  Sun Oct 18 12:41:57 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:41:57 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
In-Reply-To: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
References: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
Message-ID: <0247680AB2304110A602D8D1FB71FCEB@RichardPC>

Sandy,

There are two villages of that name located about 30 km northwest of
Rozyszcze in Volhynia:  Emilien Stare (meaning old), and Emilien Nowe
(meaning new).  The name is also spelled Emilin.  There is a family Gottlieb
Hartwig (or Hartwich)  and his wife Julianne Mueller living in Emilin,
Rozyszcze Lutheran parish.  They married on 24 Jan 1884 at Rozyszcze,
Gottlieb age 27, Julianne age 17.
I hope this helps.
Dick Stein

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sandy Burke" <sburke091 at comcast.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG


> Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks
> like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in
> Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were
> Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were
> Lutheran.
> Sandy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>



From wg7 at theunion.net  Sun Oct 18 13:52:37 2009
From: wg7 at theunion.net (Will Genz)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:52:37 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,
	Issue 17
References: <mailman.1.1255892404.19656.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <182E3F5E6DC646619CA7219C5B5B61E0@authorizm3im63>

Hello Sandy:  According to a map of German Baptist Churches in Volhynia that 
is part of a book by Donald Miller the name of the settlement is "EMILCIN'. 
It is located in the north-eastern part of Polish Volhynia, close to 
Belarus.  that is all I know about it.  Best Regards, Will Grenz
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 17


> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. postings (hildebrnd2 at aol.com)
>   2. Re: postings (Nelson Itterman)
>   3. Johann Heinrich Thim - parents (Linda Shepherd)
>   4. HARTWIG (Sandy Burke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:18:51 -0400
> From: hildebrnd2 at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <8CC1D868F4E64BC-6144-1E74 at webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robin Hildebrand
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:38:54 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
> To: <hildebrnd2 at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000001ca4f9c$22ec3b80$68c4b280$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello Robin:
> You just sent a message. Just carry on and ask your questions.
> Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> hildebrnd2 at aol.com
> Sent: October-17-09 3:19 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
>
>
> I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robin Hildebrand
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.20/2443 - Release Date: 10/17/09
> 13:08:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:43:57 +0200
> From: Linda Shepherd <lindag.shepherd at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Johann Heinrich Thim - parents
> To: Geneology -Poland <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7ca15950910172343n62942223q3c90a4920c3e2750 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hello everyone,
> Thanks so much for the information that you are sending through. Here is
> some more information about Johann's parents -
>
> *Johann Heinrich Thim (Tim) 1636 ? 1695*
>  Married Jacomijntje Claes in  3 0th May 1664 in Amsterdam ? recorded in
> Amsterdam Parish       archive
>
> *Dutch spelling of his name: Jan Hendricksz Tim*
>
> *                *Born in Danzig
>
>                Parents:               Johann Thym  ? Danzig citizen;
> businessman ?died before 27th November   1671
>
>                                                Dorothea Klawitter
>
>                Sister: Elizabeth Thim    married to   Tobias Grebingh
>
> I'd love to have a little bit more information about the parents if it is
> out there!
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Linda
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:37:27 -0400
> From: "Sandy Burke" <sburke091 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0 at cft>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks 
> like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in 
> Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were 
> Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were 
> Lutheran.
> Sandy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 17
> ***************************************************


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From wg7 at theunion.net  Sun Oct 18 13:41:57 2009
From: wg7 at theunion.net (Will Genz)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,
	Issue 17
References: <mailman.1.1255892404.19656.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <A46F0918AE0744639BE56F73E3CD5520@authorizm3im63>

Hello Sandy Burke,  Regarding the settlement of "EMILCIN" . It is in the 
upper western part of Polish Volhynia, almost in Belarus according to a map 
of German Baptist Churches that I obtained from
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 17


> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. postings (hildebrnd2 at aol.com)
>   2. Re: postings (Nelson Itterman)
>   3. Johann Heinrich Thim - parents (Linda Shepherd)
>   4. HARTWIG (Sandy Burke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:18:51 -0400
> From: hildebrnd2 at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <8CC1D868F4E64BC-6144-1E74 at webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robin Hildebrand
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:38:54 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
> To: <hildebrnd2 at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000001ca4f9c$22ec3b80$68c4b280$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello Robin:
> You just sent a message. Just carry on and ask your questions.
> Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> hildebrnd2 at aol.com
> Sent: October-17-09 3:19 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
>
>
> I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robin Hildebrand
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.20/2443 - Release Date: 10/17/09
> 13:08:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:43:57 +0200
> From: Linda Shepherd <lindag.shepherd at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Johann Heinrich Thim - parents
> To: Geneology -Poland <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7ca15950910172343n62942223q3c90a4920c3e2750 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hello everyone,
> Thanks so much for the information that you are sending through. Here is
> some more information about Johann's parents -
>
> *Johann Heinrich Thim (Tim) 1636 ? 1695*
>  Married Jacomijntje Claes in  3 0th May 1664 in Amsterdam ? recorded in
> Amsterdam Parish       archive
>
> *Dutch spelling of his name: Jan Hendricksz Tim*
>
> *                *Born in Danzig
>
>                Parents:               Johann Thym  ? Danzig citizen;
> businessman ?died before 27th November   1671
>
>                                                Dorothea Klawitter
>
>                Sister: Elizabeth Thim    married to   Tobias Grebingh
>
> I'd love to have a little bit more information about the parents if it is
> out there!
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Linda
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:37:27 -0400
> From: "Sandy Burke" <sburke091 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0 at cft>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks 
> like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in 
> Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were 
> Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were 
> Lutheran.
> Sandy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 17
> ***************************************************


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.20/2443 - Release Date: 10/17/09 
13:08:00



From Krampetz at aol.com  Sun Oct 18 14:28:11 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:28:11 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
Message-ID: <bc8.5c4c76cb.380ce26b@aol.com>

Sandy:
There are many Google-maps hits.. from Italy to Germany, but mostly  France.
 
They may have come from Russia proper,  but keep in mind that most  German
Lutherans from Poland came when Poland was considered Russian.  My own 
ancestors used either Russia or Russian-Poland on their Ellis Island  
manifests
as they left the Dobrin-land of Poland (Rypin-Lipno area)
 
Bob K.
Searching for Krampitz from Lipno, Poland area
 
 
In a message dated 10/18/2009 8:12:54 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sburke091 at comcast.net writes:

Seeking  the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks 
like  "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in 
Baltimore in  Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were 
Gottlieb  Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were  
Lutheran.
Sandy

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Sun Oct 18 15:12:18 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (Joseph Pessarra)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:12:18 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
In-Reply-To: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
References: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
Message-ID: <003201ca5040$0eb8edd0$2c2ac970$@net>

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Sandy
Burke
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 4:37 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG

Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks
like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in
Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were
Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were
Lutheran.
Sandy

============================================================================
=========

JewishGen ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp
has a couple of possible towns, both spelled as Imielin.

Imielin populated place 50?09' N 19?12' E  E M U G Poland  164.6 miles SSW
of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E  
Imielin populated place 52?09' N 21?01' E  E M U G Poland  6.9 miles S of
Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

A check in the Poland telephone directory at
http://www.ksiazka-telefoniczna.com/  has one Hartwig listed in one of the
towns.

To do a search, use:
    
Miasto is City - Imielin
Ulica is Street - Ignore this one.
Nazwisko is Last name - Hartwig

Bonifacy Hartwig  
Wandy  
Imielin 
TEL 32 6601689

If you click on "Zlokalizuj na mapie: Imielin" near the bottom of the
screen, you will get a map showing the location of Imielin.  This appears to
be the Imielin that is 164.6 miles SSW of Warszawa.

Might be a distant cousin you could write.

Good luck.

Joe in Texas   




From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Sun Oct 18 17:24:34 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:24:34 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
In-Reply-To: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
References: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
Message-ID: <d022cfb918cf4.4adb5d62@shaw.ca>

There have been a number of responses with possibilities.  Please remember first of all that we are, according to the question, limiting our options to Volhynia which means that Polish or other European regions should not be considered.  

The location given as Emilcin is for that village only and is not an equivalent to Emilien.  There are still several options as Dick Stein pointed out.  In some previous correspondence that Sandy had with Bill Remus, I noted the name of some other ancestors who lived in a village in the Tuchin district near another village called Amelin.  This should also be considered a variant spelling because of the proximity of these villages.

Additional research regarding the ancestors will be necessary to narrow down the correct one.


Jerry Frank


----- Original Message -----
From: Sandy Burke <sburke091 at comcast.net>
Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009 9:18 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) 
> that looks like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln 
> which landed in Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named 
> Hartwig, nine children; parents were Gottlieb Hartwig and 
> Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were Lutheran.
> Sandy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Sun Oct 18 19:36:41 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:36:41 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
Message-ID: <B89F4494CF95426DA26CD5CC50245BC7@Marsh>

    I've exhausted my resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but I can't verify the following place names as being correct in all respects.

Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean Poland or Ukraine

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

With thanks,
John Marsch


From albertmuth at aol.com  Sun Oct 18 19:50:53 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:50:53 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
In-Reply-To: <B89F4494CF95426DA26CD5CC50245BC7@Marsh>
References: <B89F4494CF95426DA26CD5CC50245BC7@Marsh>
Message-ID: <8CC1E7E1BE68AAC-1EEC-7569@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com>

Bukower Wald is the village of Bukowski Las in the Lublin region.  Las is Polish for "Wald", English "forest"
Is Bragonoff supposed to be in the vicinity?
Al Muth


-----Original Message-----
From: gpvjem <gpvjem at sasktel.net>
To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 10:36 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance






    I've exhausted my resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but I 
can't verify the following place names as being correct in all respects.

Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean Poland or Ukraine

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

With thanks,
John Marsch

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

 





From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 19 08:06:15 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
In-Reply-To: <8CC1E7E1BE68AAC-1EEC-7569@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <587276.13216.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

John,
Al is correct. Bukower Wald is Bukowski Las. You might try looking in the Lublin database if you have people to search for from there. Since Bukowski Las was associated with the Kamien parish, records are more sparse but eventually we might hit pay dirt for you.

I never heard of Bragonoff so it's probably not near Lublin.
Karl

--- On Sun, 10/18/09, albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com> wrote:

From: albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
To: gpvjem at sasktel.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:50 PM

Bukower Wald is the village of Bukowski Las in the Lublin region.? Las is Polish for "Wald", English "forest"
Is Bragonoff supposed to be in the vicinity?
Al Muth


-----Original Message-----
From: gpvjem <gpvjem at sasktel.net>
To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 10:36 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance






? ? I've exhausted my resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but I 
can't verify the following place names as being correct in all respects.

Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean Poland or Ukraine

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

With thanks,
John Marsch

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

 




_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



      

From ra_stein at telus.net  Mon Oct 19 08:28:57 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:28:57 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
In-Reply-To: <587276.13216.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <587276.13216.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B694F39FE24416BEB456961CF936FF@RichardPC>

John,
Bukowski Las is shown on Kurt Lueck's map published in Wandering Volhynians 
straight north of Chelm about midway between Chelm and Wlodowa.

Dick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Krueger" <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
To: <gpvjem at sasktel.net>; <Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance


John,
Al is correct. Bukower Wald is Bukowski Las. You might try looking in the 
Lublin database if you have people to search for from there. Since Bukowski 
Las was associated with the Kamien parish, records are more sparse but 
eventually we might hit pay dirt for you.

I never heard of Bragonoff so it's probably not near Lublin.
Karl

--- On Sun, 10/18/09, albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com> wrote:

From: albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
To: gpvjem at sasktel.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:50 PM

Bukower Wald is the village of Bukowski Las in the Lublin region. Las is 
Polish for "Wald", English "forest"
Is Bragonoff supposed to be in the vicinity?
Al Muth


-----Original Message-----
From: gpvjem <gpvjem at sasktel.net>
To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 10:36 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance






I've exhausted my resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but I
can't verify the following place names as being correct in all respects.

Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean Poland or Ukraine

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

With thanks,
John Marsch

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv






_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv





_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From gary at warnerengineering.com  Mon Oct 19 08:41:57 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
In-Reply-To: <43B694F39FE24416BEB456961CF936FF@RichardPC>
References: <587276.13216.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<43B694F39FE24416BEB456961CF936FF@RichardPC>
Message-ID: <4ADC88C5.5070005@warnerengineering.com>

John,

It also shows at http://mapa.szukacz.pl/ if you enter Bulowski in the 
Miejscowos'c' search field

Gary

Richard Stein wrote:
> John,
> Bukowski Las is shown on Kurt Lueck's map published in Wandering Volhynians 
> straight north of Chelm about midway between Chelm and Wlodowa.
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karl Krueger" <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
> To: <gpvjem at sasktel.net>; <Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
>
>
> John,
> Al is correct. Bukower Wald is Bukowski Las. You might try looking in the 
> Lublin database if you have people to search for from there. Since Bukowski 
> Las was associated with the Kamien parish, records are more sparse but 
> eventually we might hit pay dirt for you.
>
> I never heard of Bragonoff so it's probably not near Lublin.
> Karl
>
> --- On Sun, 10/18/09, albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
> To: gpvjem at sasktel.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:50 PM
>
> Bukower Wald is the village of Bukowski Las in the Lublin region. Las is 
> Polish for "Wald", English "forest"
> Is Bragonoff supposed to be in the vicinity?
> Al Muth
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gpvjem <gpvjem at sasktel.net>
> To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 10:36 pm
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've exhausted my resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but I
> can't verify the following place names as being correct in all respects.
>
> Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
> Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean Poland or Ukraine
>
> Any and all help would be greatly appreciated
>
> With thanks,
> John Marsch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Mon Oct 19 09:41:07 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:41:07 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
References: <587276.13216.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<43B694F39FE24416BEB456961CF936FF@RichardPC>
	<4ADC88C5.5070005@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <60E99AA6CB284262A48703714F079EB9@Marsh>

Thank you to all the informed responses to my request for help. 
 The name change from Bukower Wald to Bukowski Las certainly threw me off.
    The name Braganoff is probably a serious misspelling which emphasizes the point that one shouldn't accept place name spellings  found in  community history books in this case for Mossbank, Saskatchewan and the Wuschke family. 
    Now to check the Lublin team's work to see what else can be found!

Thank you all once again,
John

-----------------------------------------------

From: Gary Warner 
To: Richard Stein 
Cc: Karl Krueger ; gpvjem at sasktel.net ; Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:41 AM

  John,

  It also shows at http://mapa.szukacz.pl/ if you enter Bulowski in the 
  Miejscowos'c' search field

  Gary

  Richard Stein wrote:
  > John,
  > Bukowski Las is shown on Kurt Lueck's map published in Wandering Volhynians 
  > straight north of Chelm about midway between Chelm and Wlodowa.
  >
  > Dick
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Karl Krueger" <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
  > To: <gpvjem at sasktel.net>; <Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
  > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:06 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
  >
  >
  > John,
  > Al is correct. Bukower Wald is Bukowski Las. You might try looking in the 
  > Lublin database if you have people to search for from there. Since Bukowski 
  > Las was associated with the Kamien parish, records are more sparse but 
  > eventually we might hit pay dirt for you.
  >
  > I never heard of Bragonoff so it's probably not near Lublin.
  > Karl
  >
  > --- On Sun, 10/18/09, albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com> wrote:
  >
  > From: albertmuth at aol.com <albertmuth at aol.com>
  > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
  > To: gpvjem at sasktel.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
  > Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:50 PM
  >
  > Bukower Wald is the village of Bukowski Las in the Lublin region. Las is 
  > Polish for "Wald", English "forest"
  > Is Bragonoff supposed to be in the vicinity?
  > Al Muth
  >
  >



From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Mon Oct 19 10:09:48 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:09:48 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
In-Reply-To: <B89F4494CF95426DA26CD5CC50245BC7@Marsh>
References: <B89F4494CF95426DA26CD5CC50245BC7@Marsh>
Message-ID: <000301ca50de$f6a8a650$e3f9f2f0$@net>



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of gpvjem
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 9:37 PM
To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance

    I've exhausted my resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but
I can't verify the following place names as being correct in all respects.

Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean Poland or Ukraine

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

With thanks,
John Marsch

============================================================================
===

ShtetlSeeker has one that is pretty close, sound wise, to Bragonoff.  And it
is in Russia.

Bryukhanov, Bryukharov populated place 46?41' N 41?39' E  E M U G Russia
649.8 miles SSE of Moskva 55?45' N 37?37' E

ShtetlSeeker has the following for Bukowski Las.

Bukowski Las, Kolonia Bukowski Las populated place 51?22' N 23?27' E  E M U
G Poland  121.1 miles ESE of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

If we do a ShtetSeeker search for Bragonoff, looking for its possible
closeness to Bukowski Las using the coordinates for Bukowski Las, we get the
following closest towns.


Verkhnov, Verkhnuv, Werchn?w populated place 50?46' N 24?10' E  E M U G
Ukraine  51.8 miles SE of 51?22' N 23?27' E

Baraki Nowe section of populated place 50?48' N 22?02' E  E M U G Poland
72.8 miles WSW of 51?22' N 23?27' E

Borek Nowy populated place 49?55' N 22?06' E  E M U G Poland  116.3 miles
SSW of 51?22' N 23?27' E

Bryukhanov, the town found in Russia, is quite a ways from Bukowski Las.

Bryukhanov, Bryukharov populated place 46?41' N 41?39' E  E M U G Russia
882.6 miles ESE of 51?22' N 23?27' E

Not a lot of help, but at least a few possibilities.

Where did you get Bragonoff and Bukower Wald?  Just from repeated family
stories, or a document?

Joe in Texas




From katrin at bokser.ee  Mon Oct 19 11:50:42 2009
From: katrin at bokser.ee (Katrin Hanko)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:50:42 +0300
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Laufer, Reschke
Message-ID: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>

Hi to everyone!

I am doing research on my ancestors. My 2nd great grandfather was a German living in Congress Poland. He came together with his family to Estonia appr. in 1877

His name was Christian Laufer, his wife was Ernestine, maiden name Reschke.

I have copies of some pages from local church books, which give some information about the family:

1. Parochial Schein (I do not know the English wording) from Kosch Church to St. Annen in Weissenstein, Estonia http://www.hot.ee/maurice/Anna_PS.jpg

2. Personalbuch St. Annen http://www.hot.ee/maurice/Anna_PB.jpg

>From those pages I have found out, that Christian and Ernestine were probably born or they came from Salesche (Polen) ? and they were married at Pabjanitza ?

Their 4th child Emilie (there were Adolph ? b. 1863 Markowka, Petrikau, Christian ? b. 1865 Markowka, Petrikau and Magdalene ? b. 1868 Zales, Kalisch, before Emilie was born) was born in Markowka, Petrikau in 1871, next child Pauline in 1874 in Podwiczyn ?, then Bertha in Wiaczyn, Nowosolna ? etc. 

Places like Palfer, St. Annen, Rawila, Kosch are clear to me, but I am confused with all those places in Poland. Could anybody help me? And first of all ? could somebody give me some advice, where could I find more information about Christian and Ernestine? Their birth records, their marriage record, their parents etc.?

Sorry for my bad English!

Katrin


From albertmuth at aol.com  Mon Oct 19 14:22:22 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:22:22 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Laufer, Reschke
In-Reply-To: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>
References: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>
Message-ID: <8CC1F1961DF5517-3E08-EEC7@webmail-m091.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Katrin,
I do not believe that I have ever written to someone in Estonia before.  Glad to meet you.Your English is quite understandable.  In genealogy, and on this list especially, we allcan see the message, regardless of grammar and misspellings.  Many of us are distantcousins!  And want to help.  Many readers of the list also understand German,and someone is usually quick to translate a message posted in German for otherreaders who have not signed up for a German class yet.
The marriage of Christian Laufer and Ernestine Reschke took placeon 2 November 1862 at Pabianice Lutheran parish (found on LDS film #0714496,1862, record #65.Christian was 23 years old, so born about 1839, in Pawlikowice. He was the son of "Chrisostom" (perhaps merely just Christoph) and his wife Kristine Kriegel.Ernestine was 21 years old, so born about 1841, in Ludwinka.  She wasthe daughter of Christian Reschke and his wife Luise (Frankowski or Frank)
It may take me a few days, but I believe I still have a scan of the marriagerecord, which I used when I transcribed the marriage.  I will send this to youprivately.
Pabianice is 11.5 km SW of the large city Lodz.Nowosolna, were Wiaczyn and Podwiaczyn are located, is 10.7 km ENE of Lodz
If there is a connection with "Salesche", this is a German spelling of PolishZalesie, most likely the one located in the parish of Lask (29.5 km SW of Lodz)
German initial S and Polish initial Z are the same sound.Polish -si- is pronounced as German -sch.
A nice website that will help you locate towns is http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp
Al MuthMichigan, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Katrin Hanko <katrin at bokser.ee>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 2:50 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Laufer, Reschke






Hi to everyone!

I am doing research on my ancestors. My 2nd great grandfather was a German 
living in Congress Poland. He came together with his family to Estonia appr. in 
1877

His name was Christian Laufer, his wife was Ernestine, maiden name Reschke.

I have copies of some pages from local church books, which give some information 
about the family:

1. Parochial Schein (I do not know the English wording) from Kosch Church to St. 
Annen in Weissenstein, Estonia http://www.hot.ee/maurice/Anna_PS.jpg

2. Personalbuch St. Annen http://www.hot.ee/maurice/Anna_PB.jpg

>From those pages I have found out, that Christian and Ernestine were probably 
born or they came from Salesche (Polen) ? and they were married at Pabjanitza ?

Their 4th child Emilie (there were Adolph ? b. 1863 Markowka, Petrikau, 
Christian ? b. 1865 Markowka, Petrikau and Magdalene ? b. 1868 Zales, Kalisch, 
before Emilie was born) was born in Markowka, Petrikau in 1871, next child 
Pauline in 1874 in Podwiczyn ?, then Bertha in Wiaczyn, Nowosolna ? etc. 

Places like Palfer, St. Annen, Rawila, Kosch are clear to me, but I am confused 
with all those places in Poland. Could anybody help me? And first of all ? could 
somebody give me some advice, where could I find more information about 
Christian and Ernestine? Their birth records, their marriage record, their 
parents etc.?

Sorry for my bad English!

Katrin

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

 





From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Mon Oct 19 14:25:27 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:25:27 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Laufer, Reschke
In-Reply-To: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>
References: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>
Message-ID: <000601ca5102$ad603bb0$0820b310$@net>



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Katrin
Hanko
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 1:51 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Laufer, Reschke

Hi to everyone!

I am doing research on my ancestors. My 2nd great grandfather was a German
living in Congress Poland. He came together with his family to Estonia appr.
in 1877

His name was Christian Laufer, his wife was Ernestine, maiden name Reschke.

I have copies of some pages from local church books, which give some
information about the family:

1. Parochial Schein (I do not know the English wording) from Kosch Church to
St. Annen in Weissenstein, Estonia http://www.hot.ee/maurice/Anna_PS.jpg

2. Personalbuch St. Annen http://www.hot.ee/maurice/Anna_PB.jpg

>From those pages I have found out, that Christian and Ernestine were
probably born or they came from Salesche (Polen) ? and they were married at
Pabjanitza ?

Their 4th child Emilie (there were Adolph ? b. 1863 Markowka, Petrikau,
Christian ? b. 1865 Markowka, Petrikau and Magdalene ? b. 1868 Zales,
Kalisch, before Emilie was born) was born in Markowka, Petrikau in 1871,
next child Pauline in 1874 in Podwiczyn ?, then Bertha in Wiaczyn, Nowosolna
? etc. 

Places like Palfer, St. Annen, Rawila, Kosch are clear to me, but I am
confused with all those places in Poland. Could anybody help me? And first
of all ? could somebody give me some advice, where could I find more
information about Christian and Ernestine? Their birth records, their
marriage record, their parents etc.?

Sorry for my bad English!

Katrin

============================================================================
====

JewishGen ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp
Gives us the following possibilities on lookups:

Salesche -

Salesche, Gross Walden, Zalesie, Zalesie ?l?skie populated place 50?25' N
18?16' E  E M U G Poland  173.0 miles SW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

Pabjanitza -
 
Pabianice, Pabjanice populated place 50?43' N 19?23' E  E M U G Poland
126.6 miles SW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E  

Pabianice, Pabjanice, Pab?yanitsy populated place 51?40' N 19?22' E  E M U G
Poland  80.3 miles WSW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

Markowka -

Marc?wka populated place 49?48' N 19?39' E  E M U G Poland  179.0 miles SSW
of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

Markivka, Markovka, Markowka, Novo-Markovka populated place 49?32' N 39?34'
E  E M U G Ukraine  406.4 miles E of Kyyiv 50?26' N 30?31' E

Zales -

Many possibilities in Poland and Russia.  You might do a "Latitude" search
to look for the closest one to Salesche.  Let me know if you need help doing
this.

Podwiczyn -

Podwi?czyn populated place 51?46' N 19?39' E  E M U G Poland  66.4 miles WSW
of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

Wiaczyn -

Wi?czyn populated place 51?46' N 19?37' E  E M U G Poland  67.6 miles WSW of
Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

Probably all the towns are in Poland, but I did the Shtetl search for all of
Eastern Europe.  If you do one just for Poland, it should help you pick out
the best possibilities.  Once again, let me know if you need help using
ShtetlSeeker.

Someone else may be able to help you on your search for records.

Your English is perfect.

?nn kaasa,

Joe in Texas, USA




From katrin at bokser.ee  Tue Oct 20 00:28:28 2009
From: katrin at bokser.ee (Katrin Hanko)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:28:28 +0300
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Laufer, Reschke
In-Reply-To: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>
References: <78FA0DC5F7114B7BB987D2BC67192E26@katsaPC>
Message-ID: <178F14F922074939B12C756F7B597F48@katsaPC>

Thank you so much for your quick answers, Al and Joe! This is far more than 
I ever could expect!

This JewishGen link is very good - thanks again!

Al, I am really excited to get the marriage record of Christian and 
Ernestine. It seemed to me as a "dead end" - I thought that I will never 
find more information than those records from the church books here at our 
Archive.

It seems that there were a couple of other German families which came 
approximately at the same time from Poland to Estonia, and to the same 
parish in particular (Kosch/Kose parish, Palfer/Palvere manor). They were 
working in the woods and in the later records some of them were described as 
Buschw?chter (is it "game warden" in English?). From the church books I 
recall the names like Lucht, Speil, Dondorff - should anybody in this list 
be interested, I'd be glad to share this information :)

Katrin 




From Doncarolea at aol.com  Tue Oct 20 01:26:51 2009
From: Doncarolea at aol.com (Doncarolea@aol.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:26:51 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Andrewska Kir
Message-ID: <ce3.5a1a0eff.380ece4b@aol.com>

According to his birth certificate, my uncle Erdman (Edward) Stebner  was 
born May 20, 1890 in Andrewska Kir in Volhynia.  Can anyone tell me  what the 
contemporary name is of this village.
 
Don Anderson 


From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Tue Oct 20 05:49:29 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:49:29 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Andrewska Kir
In-Reply-To: <ce3.5a1a0eff.380ece4b@aol.com>
References: <ce3.5a1a0eff.380ece4b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ADDB1D9.20103@shaw.ca>

There are 5 Andrejewka variants in Volhynia known to have had German 
residents.  None have "Kir" as a suffix.  Is your birth certificate an 
original from Volhynia?  If so, perhaps you could share a copy of it to 
see if there are any other clues about the specific location.  You 
cannot post it to the list but perhaps individuals will share their 
email address with you and you can send it to them directly.


Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



Doncarolea at aol.com wrote:
> According to his birth certificate, my uncle Erdman (Edward) Stebner  was 
> born May 20, 1890 in Andrewska Kir in Volhynia.  Can anyone tell me  what the 
> contemporary name is of this village.
>  
> Don Anderson 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From jvmalin at pacifier.com  Tue Oct 20 09:42:46 2009
From: jvmalin at pacifier.com (jvmalin@pacifier.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:42:46 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,
	Issue 17
References: <mailman.1.1255892404.19656.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <002f01ca51a4$5bbcb2a0$40ab9643@homepc9iuasgic>

I have information on Emilcin - write to me at jvmalin at pacifier.com = Judi 
Malinowski
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 17


> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
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> http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. postings (hildebrnd2 at aol.com)
>   2. Re: postings (Nelson Itterman)
>   3. Johann Heinrich Thim - parents (Linda Shepherd)
>   4. HARTWIG (Sandy Burke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:18:51 -0400
> From: hildebrnd2 at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <8CC1D868F4E64BC-6144-1E74 at webmail-d081.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robin Hildebrand
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:38:54 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
> To: <hildebrnd2 at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000001ca4f9c$22ec3b80$68c4b280$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello Robin:
> You just sent a message. Just carry on and ask your questions.
> Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> hildebrnd2 at aol.com
> Sent: October-17-09 3:19 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] postings
>
>
> I'm getting the messages, but how do I send one myself?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robin Hildebrand
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.20/2443 - Release Date: 10/17/09
> 13:08:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:43:57 +0200
> From: Linda Shepherd <lindag.shepherd at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Johann Heinrich Thim - parents
> To: Geneology -Poland <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7ca15950910172343n62942223q3c90a4920c3e2750 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hello everyone,
> Thanks so much for the information that you are sending through. Here is
> some more information about Johann's parents -
>
> *Johann Heinrich Thim (Tim) 1636 ? 1695*
>  Married Jacomijntje Claes in  3 0th May 1664 in Amsterdam ? recorded in
> Amsterdam Parish       archive
>
> *Dutch spelling of his name: Jan Hendricksz Tim*
>
> *                *Born in Danzig
>
>                Parents:               Johann Thym  ? Danzig citizen;
> businessman ?died before 27th November   1671
>
>                                                Dorothea Klawitter
>
>                Sister: Elizabeth Thim    married to   Tobias Grebingh
>
> I'd love to have a little bit more information about the parents if it is
> out there!
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Linda
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:37:27 -0400
> From: "Sandy Burke" <sburke091 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0 at cft>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks 
> like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in 
> Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were 
> Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were 
> Lutheran.
> Sandy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 17
> ***************************************************
> 



From roseingram at shaw.ca  Tue Oct 20 11:39:47 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:39:47 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Andrewska Kir
References: <ce3.5a1a0eff.380ece4b@aol.com> <4ADDB1D9.20103@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <00ca01ca51b4$b335efa0$6601a8c0@duocore>

Is it possible that the "Kir" is an abreviated "Kirche".  Is there another town/city noted on the document?

Rose Ingram
  From: Jerry Frank 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:49 AM

  There are 5 Andrejewka variants in Volhynia known to have had German 
  residents.  None have "Kir" as a suffix.  Is your birth certificate an 
  original from Volhynia?  If so, perhaps you could share a copy of it to 
  see if there are any other clues about the specific location.  You 
  cannot post it to the list but perhaps individuals will share their 
  email address with you and you can send it to them directly.


  Jerry Frank
  Calgary, AB



  Doncarolea at aol.com wrote:
  > According to his birth certificate, my uncle Erdman (Edward) Stebner  was 
  > born May 20, 1890 in Andrewska Kir in Volhynia.  Can anyone tell me  what the 
  > contemporary name is of this village.
  >  
  > Don Anderson 
  >


From hgillespie at rogers.com  Tue Oct 20 18:53:34 2009
From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:53:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
In-Reply-To: <B89F4494CF95426DA26CD5CC50245BC7@Marsh>
Message-ID: <623262.57521.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


John,

In case those don't pan out, there's another town called Bychawa in the county of Lublin Poland  -  http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Bychawa&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Gmina+Bychawa,+Poland&gl=ca&ei=lmfeSsv4MMe2lAfcl62oAw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ8gEwAA

The map shows that Bychawa is not far from another village called Bychawka Druga.   This could be the same area previously suggested .

The town has a website - unfortunately, all in Polish - http://www.bychawa.pl/


Helen
--- On Mon, 10/19/09, gpvjem <gpvjem at sasktel.net> wrote:

> From: gpvjem <gpvjem at sasktel.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
> To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Received: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:36 AM
> ? ? I've exhausted my
> resources including maps, Google and ShtetlSeeker but I
> can't verify the following place names as being correct in
> all respects.
> 
> Bukower Wald - supposedly in Poland
> Bragonoff - supposedly in Russia but that could also mean
> Poland or Ukraine
> 
> Any and all help would be greatly appreciated
> 
> With thanks,
> John Marsch
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 




From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Tue Oct 20 20:02:38 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (Joseph Pessarra)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:02:38 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
In-Reply-To: <d022cfb918cf4.4adb5d62@shaw.ca>
References: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
	<d022cfb918cf4.4adb5d62@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <009c01ca51fa$f310d180$d9327480$@net>

Here is some other possibilities from ShetlSeeker.  As Jerry mentioned, if
we are looking for a town in Volhynia, these probably aren't the ones being
searched for.  The question might should be to the original poster, are they
sure the person comes from Volhynia.

This one is a lake, and out in the middle of nowhere in Russia.  Probably
not the right place, but thought it was interesting.

Emilienlampi, Ozero Emiliyen-Lampi lake 62?30' N 31?39' E  E M U G Russia
511.3 miles NNW of Moskva 55?45' N 37?37' E

And this one is in Poland, and NNE of Warszawa, so is probably wrong also,
if we are looking for a place in Volhynia.

Emilienruh, Szczodrowo populated place 54?15' N 22?26' E  E M U G Poland
150.2 miles NNE of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

And this one in the Ukraine.

Koloniya Emilin populated place 50?41' N 28?45' E  E M U G Ukraine  79.4
miles WNW of Kyyiv 50?26' N 30?31' E

Joe in Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jerry
Frank
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:25 PM
To: Sandy Burke
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG

There have been a number of responses with possibilities.  Please remember
first of all that we are, according to the question, limiting our options to
Volhynia which means that Polish or other European regions should not be
considered.  

The location given as Emilcin is for that village only and is not an
equivalent to Emilien.  There are still several options as Dick Stein
pointed out.  In some previous correspondence that Sandy had with Bill
Remus, I noted the name of some other ancestors who lived in a village in
the Tuchin district near another village called Amelin.  This should also be
considered a variant spelling because of the proximity of these villages.

Additional research regarding the ancestors will be necessary to narrow down
the correct one.


Jerry Frank


----- Original Message -----
From: Sandy Burke <sburke091 at comcast.net>
Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009 9:18 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) 
> that looks like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln 
> which landed in Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named 
> Hartwig, nine children; parents were Gottlieb Hartwig and 
> Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were Lutheran.
> Sandy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 

_______________________________________________
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Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From mpzbest at mwwb.net  Tue Oct 20 22:46:28 2009
From: mpzbest at mwwb.net (Mark P. Zellmer)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:46:28 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Johann Zellmer born 1790s Klawittersdorf
	Kreis Deutsch Krone Posen Preussen
Message-ID: <143D343000704A7B879F85620961434F@OwnerPC>

I have this one stopping me cold Johann Zellmer born ? 1790s married Suzanna ?Bremer or Brehmer they had a son Christof born 1818 he married Augusta Drews or Drevs they had 7 children Christof brought his wife and children to USA 1868 from Hamburg aboard the Cymbria I have good info from then on but nothing on Johann I want his parents grandparents so on siblings of his or his children or other marriages Please email me if this person has come up in your research or if you know of this now unnamed villade 10 K N.E. of Walcz Poland and 4.5 K S.E. of Scwecja Poland if you live near or travel there and could look at the cemetary anything will help I would gladly pay for accurrate proven info Thank You mpzbest at mwwb.net 

From GHBoehm at ish.de  Wed Oct 21 01:07:22 2009
From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:07:22 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Johann Zellmer born 1790s
 KlawittersdorfKreis Deutsch Krone Posen Preussen
In-Reply-To: <143D343000704A7B879F85620961434F@OwnerPC>
References: <143D343000704A7B879F85620961434F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <4ADEC13A.2020909@ish.de>

Mark P. Zellmer schrieb:
> I have this one stopping me cold Johann Zellmer born ? 1790s married Suzanna ?Bremer or Brehmer they had a son Christof born 1818 he married Augusta Drews or Drevs they had 7 children Christof brought his wife and children to USA 1868 from Hamburg aboard the Cymbria I have good info from then on but nothing on Johann I want his parents grandparents so on siblings of his or his children or other marriages Please email me if this person has come up in your research or if you know of this now unnamed villade 10 K N.E. of Walcz Poland and 4.5 K S.E. of Scwecja Poland if you live near or travel there and could look at the cemetary anything will help I would gladly pay for accurrate proven info Thank You mpzbest at mwwb.net

Hello Mark,
Klawittersdorf *does* still exist. Its Polish name is *G?owaczewo* and 
it is situated in a river bend of the Pi?awa. On the air view of 
http://maps.geoportal.gov.pl (copy the Polish village name to include 
the ? into the search box) you can detect some houses, garden beds, a 
pisciculture and even a church at N 53?18'51.11" N; E 16?36'17.12". A 
photograph of the church (apparently built after 1900) is at 
http://fr.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Poland/West/Zachodniopomorskie/Glowaczewo/photo1110728.htm 
.

According to the Prussian Landesaufnahme (census) of 1772 / 73, *A. 
ZELLMER* was Kr?ger (innkeeper) in Klawittersdorf. His household 
included 1 man, 1 woman, 3 daughters younger than 9 years, 1 farm 
servant (boy), 1 farm servant (girl), altogether 7 souls, 2 horses, 4 
oxes, 3 cows, 5 young stock, 19 sheep, 7 pigs and 1 Hufe (= 30 Morgen = 
75.000 sqare meters of farm land).

G?nther


From ldavies at rogers.com  Wed Oct 21 13:34:04 2009
From: ldavies at rogers.com (Laurel Davies)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russia arrests historian researching ethnic
	Germans
Message-ID: <385103.72270.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Last week, CBC radio news reported that Russian authorities had arrested historian Mikhail Suprun and confiscated his research on the imprisonment of Germans in Stalin's gulags, including ethnic Germans from southern Russia.

Googling "Mikhail Suprun" will find a number of interesting articles, including:
http://virtualcollector.blogspot.com/2009/10/russian-historian-arrested-in-clampdown.html

Regards,
Laurel Davies





From wg7 at theunion.net  Thu Oct 22 12:25:35 2009
From: wg7 at theunion.net (Will Genz)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:25:35 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77,
	Issue 22
References: <mailman.1.1256238006.25531.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <D84855F9F5F24BD8A79AC65797AE3508@authorizm3im63>

Thank you Laurel for the news flash.  I am currently writing a book based on 
my Father's journal who spent a total of 9 years in Stalinist slave labor 
camps.  The book will expose the atrocities committed by the Stalinist 
regime not only against the German settlers but against other ethnic groups, 
including the Jews. I am an American Citizen and dare an aperatichick of the 
current defacto communist regime to try to come here to the USA and arrest 
me.  I am fully prepared for such an event. Will Grenz
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 22


> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Russia arrests historian researching ethnic Germans
>      (Laurel Davies)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Laurel Davies <ldavies at rogers.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russia arrests historian researching
> ethnic Germans
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <385103.72270.qm at web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Last week, CBC radio news reported that Russian authorities had arrested 
> historian Mikhail Suprun and confiscated his research on the imprisonment 
> of Germans in Stalin's gulags, including ethnic Germans from southern 
> Russia.
>
> Googling "Mikhail Suprun" will find a number of interesting articles, 
> including:
> http://virtualcollector.blogspot.com/2009/10/russian-historian-arrested-in-clampdown.html
>
> Regards,
> Laurel Davies
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 77, Issue 22
> ***************************************************


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From rlyster at telusplanet.net  Fri Oct 23 08:34:10 2009
From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:34:10 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] word meanings
Message-ID: <15662347.3688524.1256312050073.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94>

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From rlyster at telusplanet.net  Fri Oct 23 09:06:55 2009
From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:06:55 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cottbus
Message-ID: <22553862.3689852.1256314015320.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94>

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From Spaghettitree at aol.com  Fri Oct 23 09:08:44 2009
From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:08:44 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] word meanings
Message-ID: <cca.5ae30083.38132f0c@aol.com>

According to Thode's dictionary, that means:  birthday (anniversary)  
celebration, literally "cradle festival".   
 
Maureen
 
 
In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:39:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
rlyster at telusplanet.net writes:

I have found some Belter connections in Brazil.  My contact has  send me 
postcards and there are some words that I don't know written in  bold:
"Wir Gratoliren dir an deinem Wiegefeste  das aller beste"  
"Wir Gratoliren zur ihnen Wigenfeste " 
Any suggestions on what this is? 
Rita Lyster  



_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From jkaut at xplornet.com  Fri Oct 23 09:21:19 2009
From: jkaut at xplornet.com (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Kaut?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:21:19 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] word meanings
In-Reply-To: <15662347.3688524.1256312050073.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94>
References: <15662347.3688524.1256312050073.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94>
Message-ID: <628B7449DEA34C6CA089707000B8E373@JIDDCONSULTIPC>

hi, Rita

Wiegenfest - translates as  " birthday celebrations (high  German stylistic terminology) "
as per cassell's new german dictionary
Wiege is a baby cradle
see ya, jurgen

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rita Lyster 
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:34 AM
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] word meanings


   I have found some Belter connections in Brazil.  My contact has send me postcards and there are some words that I don't know written in bold:




  "Wir Gratoliren dir an deinem Wiegefeste das aller beste" 



  "Wir Gratoliren zur ihnen Wigenfeste "



  Any suggestions on what this is?



  Rita Lyster 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
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From Spaghettitree at aol.com  Fri Oct 23 10:10:26 2009
From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:10:26 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cottbus
Message-ID: <c18.66743e94.38133d82@aol.com>

In Meyers-Orts Gazetteer, 1912, Cottbus is a large city on the Spree -  it 
was at that time in Prussia, Kreis Brandenburg, government district  
Frankfurt; 48,643 residents as of 1910, of whom 44,708 were Evangelische, 1,973  
Katholic, 400 Juden.    Volume II, page 303, column  1.   I have not looked, 
but there is likely a Brandenburg list,  and there is a very active Prussian 
list.       
 
Maureen
 
 
In a message dated 10/23/2009 9:16:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
rlyster at telusplanet.net writes:

Thankyou all....we have a fast response to Weigefest---it makes  sense:  
cradle is Weige and so it is another word for birthday! 
New question: 
Cottbus, Nord Str #37 
Where is Cottbus, possibly in Lodz or near Lodz?  And is there any  
possibility to know who lived there in 1926? 
Rita Lyster  



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Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From petra at serwaty.de  Sat Oct 24 11:28:28 2009
From: petra at serwaty.de (Petra Serwaty)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:28:28 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
Message-ID: <4AE3474C.1080704@serwaty.de>

Hello,
I try to write in english, my first language is german, and I hope you 
understand me.
I'm searching about my ancestors Kissro in the north of Sompolno (Kozy, 
Zakrety, Rudzk Duzy, Rudzk Maly):
Kissro: Johann (*ca. 1841) and Emilie (*ca. 1850) were siblings, Johann 
married Roseanna B?ch and I know 4 children: August, Ludwig (or 
Ludwika), Wilhelmine and Bogumil. Their birthentries were in Sompolno. 
Did someone know more children from Johann and Roseanna or something 
about the parents of Johann and Emilie?
Regards
Petra
-- 
www.serwaty.de


From cmduff at redwing.net  Sat Oct 24 13:36:55 2009
From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:36:55 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] petra
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1256410803.7828.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1256410803.7828.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <4AE36567.7010608@redwing.net>

Ich will mein Deutsch als gut als dein english. I wish my German was as 
good as your English. Carol


From ra_stein at telus.net  Sat Oct 24 14:58:32 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:58:32 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
In-Reply-To: <4AE3474C.1080704@serwaty.de>
References: <4AE3474C.1080704@serwaty.de>
Message-ID: <01A5D95E628D41418B97B8035AA841DC@RichardPC>

Petra,
Some of your questions are answered by searching the SGGEE master pedigree
database for Kisro.  The parents of Johann Kisro are given as Christoph
Kisro / Rosine Noerenberg.

I have a Kisro in my line:  Caroline Kisro (Kisser in some records) born
about 1830, married Andreas Fergin and had 9 children at Przewoz Maly which 
is close to Kozy.  Do you know of this Caroline Kisro?

Dick Stein

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Petra Serwaty" <petra at serwaty.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:28 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area


Hello,
I try to write in english, my first language is german, and I hope you
understand me.
I'm searching about my ancestors Kissro in the north of Sompolno (Kozy,
Zakrety, Rudzk Duzy, Rudzk Maly):
Kissro: Johann (*ca. 1841) and Emilie (*ca. 1850) were siblings, Johann
married Roseanna B?ch and I know 4 children: August, Ludwig (or
Ludwika), Wilhelmine and Bogumil. Their birthentries were in Sompolno.
Did someone know more children from Johann and Roseanna or something
about the parents of Johann and Emilie?
Regards
Petra
-- 
www.serwaty.de

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From FoxeGenie at aol.com  Sat Oct 24 15:22:38 2009
From: FoxeGenie at aol.com (FoxeGenie@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:22:38 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place Name Assistance
Message-ID: <c49.48dfdba6.3814d82e@aol.com>

Hello Listers
 
My relatives were born in Russia and I need assistance with the  places 
found for last place of Residence on Passenger Lists:
 
Ostrowski Immigrated 1898
Smolee Immigrated 1903
Szimall Immigrated 1905
Grzymain Immigrated 1907
Ostrow Immigrated 1910
Grzcinski Immigrated 1912
 
Thank you,
Genie Giberson
 


From albertmuth at aol.com  Sat Oct 24 15:28:48 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:28:48 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
In-Reply-To: <01A5D95E628D41418B97B8035AA841DC@RichardPC>
References: <4AE3474C.1080704@serwaty.de>
	<01A5D95E628D41418B97B8035AA841DC@RichardPC>
Message-ID: <8CC23107D40B7CE-91BC-1533B@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com>

To the children of Johann and Anna Rosine (Buech) Kisro, I can add:


Emilie 1868 #250
Karl Wilhelm 1870 #16
Auguste 1871 #141 




Ernestine Tugendreich 1872 #288
Mathlde 1874 #57


All born at Kozy.  My transcription ends about here, but the filming was done through 1884.
If you would like full dates, I can send them to you privately.



From petra at serwaty.de  Sun Oct 25 02:06:12 2009
From: petra at serwaty.de (Petra Serwaty)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:06:12 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
In-Reply-To: <01A5D95E628D41418B97B8035AA841DC@RichardPC>
References: <4AE3474C.1080704@serwaty.de>
	<01A5D95E628D41418B97B8035AA841DC@RichardPC>
Message-ID: <4AE41504.90007@serwaty.de>

Hello Dick,
thanks for your answer.
Yes, I found the parents of Johann by the SGGEE. Can I read this 
information on a film or another originalentry?
Sorry I didn't found a Caroline Kissro - I'm just start in this line, 
because since week I'm in contact with a grandson of Gottlieb (Bogumil) 
Kissro, woh was a brother of Wilhelmine.
But I have a Elisabeth Fergin, she was born in Mielnica 1839, she 
married Ludwig Kaschube.
Petra
www.serwaty.de


Richard Stein schrieb:
> Petra,
> Some of your questions are answered by searching the SGGEE master 
> pedigree
> database for Kisro.  The parents of Johann Kisro are given as Christoph
> Kisro / Rosine Noerenberg.
>
> I have a Kisro in my line:  Caroline Kisro (Kisser in some records) born
> about 1830, married Andreas Fergin and had 9 children at Przewoz Maly 
> which is close to Kozy.  Do you know of this Caroline Kisro?
>
> Dick Stein
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petra Serwaty" <petra at serwaty.de>
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:28 PM
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
>
>
> Hello,
> I try to write in english, my first language is german, and I hope you
> understand me.
> I'm searching about my ancestors Kissro in the north of Sompolno (Kozy,
> Zakrety, Rudzk Duzy, Rudzk Maly):
> Kissro: Johann (*ca. 1841) and Emilie (*ca. 1850) were siblings, Johann
> married Roseanna B?ch and I know 4 children: August, Ludwig (or
> Ludwika), Wilhelmine and Bogumil. Their birthentries were in Sompolno.
> Did someone know more children from Johann and Roseanna or something
> about the parents of Johann and Emilie?
> Regards
> Petra


From h.bettich at osnanet.de  Sun Oct 25 03:28:08 2009
From: h.bettich at osnanet.de (Marina und Henning Bettich)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:28:08 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] To Helen Gillespie
Message-ID: <000901ca555d$d870a1a0$8951e4e0$@bettich@osnanet.de>

Hello Helen,

 

i will try to respond to your search in english. My first language is
german.

 

My grandfather Heinrich Bettich and my grandmother Elfriede Bettig lived in
Berestowitz, Lubomirka and some of their relatives lived in Solomka.

I've told my grandfather the family names you are searching for.

My grandfather always nows the names and he would know for what persons you
are searching for.

 

So please send me an email and we could look what we've got  together.

 

I had a map from Berestowitz and Lubomirka with the houses and names of the
people.

 

Henning Bettich

 

Searching for Bettich/Bettig/Wittmeier/Rapske in volhynia and in Lodz in
Poland after resettlement from the Nazis.

 

 



From christianlucht at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 25 07:20:36 2009
From: christianlucht at googlemail.com (Christian Lucht)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:20:36 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
Message-ID: <be19f8f60910250720sb90e22ar7038a928c6a728b3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello to all.
Does anybody have connections to a KISSRO/KISSER family in the Babiak area?
Christian Lucht


From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Sun Oct 25 09:04:48 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:04:48 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
References: <be19f8f60910250720sb90e22ar7038a928c6a728b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01EC66EAF4BA4D15BCCECB6CE286048F@Marsh>

Hello Christian:
    My G-G-Grandmother Anna Katarzyna Kisser, daughter of Martin Kisser and Anna Marianne______ ?  was born Abt. 1876 at Holendry Lubonski, Babiak.  She died on 13 Oct 1851 at Leg Piekarski (LDS film 0,764,409 Reg 84 refers)
    She married Johann Michael Singbeil in 1820 at Hilarow, Dabie.
I have no other reference documents recorded other than for her death.

John Marsch

-------------------------------------------------------



  Hello to all.
  Does anybody have connections to a KISSRO/KISSER family in the Babiak area?
  Christian Lucht



From udo-edelgard at freenet.de  Sun Oct 25 13:27:51 2009
From: udo-edelgard at freenet.de (Edelgard Strobel)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:27:51 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: [POSEN] Bill J. Hoffman
Message-ID: <A36AA76012384187A61A65845B6197DA@acer747b59264e>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "=James Birkholz=" <james at birchy.com>
To: <Posen-L at rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: [POSEN] Bill J. Hoffman


> It is with much sadness that I must inform you that long-time
> subscriber and contributor Bill J. Hoffman passed away last month.
>
> (not to be confused with subscriber and contributor, the author of
> several books on Eastern Eurpopean names, William F. "Fred" Hoffman)
>
> James Birkholz
> ========================================================
> administrator (Betreuer der), Posen-EN mailing list & website
> http://Posen-L.com & http://Birchy.com/GenWiki
> ========================================================
> Site Coordinator: CC(D)HS at ClassReports.org
> Admin: Class of '76 
> http://www.classreport.org/usa/mt/miles_city/ccdhs/1976/
> ========================================================
> Organizer: DFW Church Facilities Managers
> ========================================================
>
> ==== POSEN Mailing List ====
> === Some rules of the list: Be nice, stay on topic.
> Visit our website at:
> http://www.posen-l.com
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to 
> POSEN-request at rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes 
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> 



From Spaghettitree at aol.com  Sun Oct 25 14:56:17 2009
From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:56:17 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: [POSEN] Bill J. Hoffman
Message-ID: <bd7.5938c37e.38162381@aol.com>

Yes, much sadness indeed - Bill was a good, kind, giving gentleman, and a  
long-time friend - we were both  in the former German Genealogical Society  
of America for many years.  His wife's family and my mother's  family lived 
within a few kilometers of each other in Posen.  He is  missed.   
 
Maureen Schoenky
 
In a message dated 10/25/2009 1:36:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
udo-edelgard at freenet.de writes:
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "=James Birkholz="  <james at birchy.com>
To: <Posen-L at rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday,  October 25, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: [POSEN] Bill J. Hoffman


>  It is with much sadness that I must inform you that long-time
>  subscriber and contributor Bill J. Hoffman passed away last  month.
>
> (not to be confused with subscriber and contributor,  the author of
> several books on Eastern Eurpopean names, William F.  "Fred" Hoffman)
>
> James Birkholz
>  ========================================================
> administrator  (Betreuer der), Posen-EN mailing list & website
> http://Posen-L.com  & http://Birchy.com/GenWiki
>  ========================================================
> Site  Coordinator: CC(D)HS at ClassReports.org
> Admin: Class of '76 
>  http://www.classreport.org/usa/mt/miles_city/ccdhs/1976/
>  ========================================================
> Organizer:  DFW Church Facilities Managers
>  ========================================================
>
> ====  POSEN Mailing List ====
> === Some rules of the list: Be nice, stay on  topic.
> Visit our website at:
> http://www.posen-l.com
>  -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please  send an email to 
> POSEN-request at rootsweb.com with the word  'unsubscribe' without the 
quotes 
> in the subject and the body of the  message
>
>  


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From petra at serwaty.de  Mon Oct 26 06:09:41 2009
From: petra at serwaty.de (Petra Serwaty)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:09:41 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
Message-ID: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de>

Hello,
thanks for all your answers - I'm happy, that a lot of people can and 
want help me.

I think, it could be, that the families with the name Kissro and Kisser 
was in connections, or not?

Johann Kissro should be born in Sendowo, but I didn't find this place. 
I'm searching u.a. at kartenmeister.com.
Two of his sons should bei going to America and Kanada.

Sincerely
Petra
-- 
www.serwaty.de


From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Mon Oct 26 06:39:00 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:39:00 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
In-Reply-To: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de>
References: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de>
Message-ID: <4AE5A674.8040508@shaw.ca>

Petra,

You cannot find Sendowo with Kartenmeister because it only applies to 
former Prussian regions of Poland.  It does not include former Russian 
Poland.

You should probably be looking for Sedowo where the e has a diacritic 
hook under it that gives it an en sound.  If no one else replies, I will 
try to help further when I return home from work later today.



Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



Petra Serwaty wrote:
> Hello,
> thanks for all your answers - I'm happy, that a lot of people can and 
> want help me.
>
> I think, it could be, that the families with the name Kissro and Kisser 
> was in connections, or not?
>
> Johann Kissro should be born in Sendowo, but I didn't find this place. 
> I'm searching u.a. at kartenmeister.com.
> Two of his sons should bei going to America and Kanada.
>
> Sincerely
> Petra
>   


From mail at reiner-kerp.de  Mon Oct 26 07:11:53 2009
From: mail at reiner-kerp.de (Reiner Kerp)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:11:53 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
References: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de> <4AE5A674.8040508@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <20F9B1AF946F45D1916BCDA6362B52C4@Kerp>

Hi all!

S?dowo BYD:

from Barcin follow federal road 254 (Barcin-Mogilno) 13 km southbound 
to D?browa. From there a very little road 1,5 km to southeast.

best regards,

Reiner


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Frank" <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
To: "Petra Serwaty" <petra at serwaty.de>
Cc: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area


> Petra,
>
> You cannot find Sendowo with Kartenmeister because it only applies 
> to
> former Prussian regions of Poland.  It does not include former 
> Russian
> Poland.
>
> You should probably be looking for Sedowo where the e has a 
> diacritic
> hook under it that gives it an en sound.  If no one else replies, I 
> will
> try to help further when I return home from work later today.
>
>
>
> Jerry Frank
> Calgary, AB 



From petra at serwaty.de  Mon Oct 26 10:45:00 2009
From: petra at serwaty.de (Petra Serwaty)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:45:00 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family and place Sendowo
Message-ID: <4AE5E01C.9080708@serwaty.de>

Hello,

with the help from Hannes Werner and the link mapa.szukacz.pl I find the 
place "Sedowo". It would be the same as Sendowo, I think.

It is in the near of Inowroclaw and first I think it's right.

Petra
-- 
www.serwaty.de


From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Mon Oct 26 11:35:28 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:35:28 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family and place Sendowo
References: <4AE5E01C.9080708@serwaty.de>
Message-ID: <001401ca566b$1847f9a0$f800a8c0@end2000>

Hi Petra,

ein gutes Ergebnis zur Suche nach Sedowo erh?ltst Du mit mapa.szukacz.pl !
Ich benutze dieses polnische Kartenmaterial seit Jahren sehr oft und mit
sehr guten Ergebnissen.
Gib mapa.szukacz.pl einfach in die Adressleiste des browsers und best?tige
mit enter. Wenn die Seite geladen ist dr?cke die "reklama" mit dem X weg und
gib rechts unter "Miejscowosc" den Ort Sedowo ein. Dr?cke auf "pokaz"
darunter.
Als Ergebnis wird Dir nur ein Ort angezeigt !
Links neben der Ortseingabe siehst Du eine Zahlenskala mit
Meter-Angaben(Aufl?sung). Wenn Du nacheinander die aufsteigenden Zahlen
w?hlst, siehst Du z. B. bei 96 m die Lage von Sedowo in Relation zur Stadt
Inowroclaw.

Wie Du weisst, suche ich ebenfalls nach B?CH (und ganz entfernt nach KISSER
mit Bezug nach Wolhynien). Nach etlichen anderen Vorfahren suche ich
mittlerweile im Raum Sompolno-Hohensalza-
Wloclawek!

... very often I use mapa.szukacz.pl for searching polish places. It's not
necessary to use special polish writing / signs, but it's very useful to
know this signs. Sendowo, for example, is pronounced the same way, but it is
written:
Sedowo
in Polish.
It is possible to search by "Joker": Searching with "Sed*" will show any
place in Poland beginning with this letters.

Hannes W.




From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Mon Oct 26 11:47:28 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:47:28 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
In-Reply-To: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de>
References: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de>
Message-ID: <000001ca566c$c4519ca0$4cf4d5e0$@net>

USA Castle Garden immigration site at
http://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php has the following for KISRO,KISSRO.
Site is free, you can look them up yourself.

First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Ship Origin (Port) Origin
(Ctry) Origin (Prov) Origin (Town)
 
AUGUST KISRO INFANT 4 m M 21 Nov 1884 POLARIA HAMBURG GERMANY PRUSSIA
TOROWANDA 
JOHANNA KISRO WOMAN 26 F 21 Nov 1884 POLARIA HAMBURG GERMANY PRUSSIA
TOROWANDA 
L. KISRO FARMER 21 M 25 Apr 1889 PENNLAND ANTWERP GERMANY NOT AVAILABLE
GLEMBAREK

JULIUS KISSRO FARMER 16 M 3 May 1882 HABSBURG BREMEN GERMANY NOT AVAILABLE U

There are 53 KISSER listings.

Good luck.

Joe in Texas, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Petra
Serwaty
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:10 AM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area

Hello,
thanks for all your answers - I'm happy, that a lot of people can and 
want help me.

I think, it could be, that the families with the name Kissro and Kisser 
was in connections, or not?

Johann Kissro should be born in Sendowo, but I didn't find this place. 
I'm searching u.a. at kartenmeister.com.
Two of his sons should bei going to America and Kanada.

Sincerely
Petra
-- 
www.serwaty.de

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From mw2657 at cs.com  Mon Oct 26 12:35:43 2009
From: mw2657 at cs.com (mw2657@cs.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:35:43 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Louis Ludwig Lichtenstein - lookup on Castle
	Garden
In-Reply-To: <000001ca566c$c4519ca0$4cf4d5e0$@net>
References: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de> <000001ca566c$c4519ca0$4cf4d5e0$@net>
Message-ID: <8CC248AA46815DD-6B58-26DFF@webmail-m041.sysops.aol.com>


Thanks Joe and all, I keep forgetting to look at Castle Garden in addition to Ellis Island. You are all so helpful, and this was a great reminder for me!

I have a question, now, as I just went to the Castle Garden site to look for my ancestor, Louis Ludwig Lichtenstein, and found a Ludwig Lichtenstein, 22 y.o., departed Bremen, origin Pesth, arrived 15 Sept 1858. However, I have his son's birth in 1856 in Pottstown PA. The entry following Ludwig is for Eva (wife).

My questions are:
1) Are all arrivals noted at Castle Garden for this period? Were there other major ports of entry? I have checked Ellis Island, and find no mention of this family, and know that Ellis Island did not come about for many years after 1850.

2) I have information that Louis's wife was Anna Christina Nagel, and went by "Christie", not Eva. So is this "Eva" listed as wife, meant to indicate Louis's wife? They did not arrive at the same time, and there is no one else showing an arrival date the same as Eva in 1859 in the listing.

3) Ludwig's entry shows origin as Pesth, and when I google that, I get a listing and map for Pesth,  aka Budapest(h), Hungary. My information indicates Louis Ludwig came from Bavaria (city not known yet). Would Pesth/Budapest have been part of Bavaria at one time?

4) Eva's origin is shown as Sebau, and google offers an alternative lookup as Sebau near Slovakia. My information shows Anna Christina Nagel was from Hanover. Would Sebau have been part of Germany, or the Hanover area at any time?

5) Are there other German towns or names similar to Sebau or Pesth that I should be looking in? My Great-great grandfather used to tell my father stories about being distantly related to the King of Lichtenstein, but these don't seem to be the right locations to be researching if that is true. 

6) Since I know Louis Ludwig's son was born in PA in 1856, neither of these arrivals would support that being a good birth year/place. Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you may provide. I have been at a dead-end on this line for @ 10 years.

Regards, 

Maureen Murray Webb 
  

-----Original Message-----
From: joepessarra <joepessarra at suddenlink.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area



USA Castle Garden immigration site at
ttp://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php has the following for KISRO,KISSRO.
ite is free, you can look them up yourself.
First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Ship Origin (Port) Origin
Ctry) Origin (Prov) Origin (Town)

UGUST KISRO INFANT 4 m M 21 Nov 1884 POLARIA HAMBURG GERMANY PRUSSIA
OROWANDA 
OHANNA KISRO WOMAN 26 F 21 Nov 1884 POLARIA HAMBURG GERMANY PRUSSIA
OROWANDA 
. KISRO FARMER 21 M 25 Apr 1889 PENNLAND ANTWERP GERMANY NOT AVAILABLE
LEMBAREK
JULIUS KISSRO FARMER 16 M 3 May 1882 HABSBURG BREMEN GERMANY NOT AVAILABLE U
There are 53 KISSER listings.
Good luck.
Joe in Texas, USA
-----Original Message-----
rom: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Petra
erwaty
ent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:10 AM
o: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
ubject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kissro-family from Sompolno area
Hello,
hanks for all your answers - I'm happy, that a lot of people can and 
ant help me.
I think, it could be, that the families with the name Kissro and Kisser 
as in connections, or not?
Johann Kissro should be born in Sendowo, but I didn't find this place. 
'm searching u.a. at kartenmeister.com.
wo of his sons should bei going to America and Kanada.
Sincerely
etra
- 
ww.serwaty.de
_______________________________________________
er-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
ociety for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
ailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

______________________________________________
er-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
ociety for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
ailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Mon Oct 26 14:02:49 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:02:49 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Louis Ludwig Lichtenstein - lookup on
	Castle	Garden
In-Reply-To: <8CC248AA46815DD-6B58-26DFF@webmail-m041.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4AE59F95.9090300@serwaty.de> <000001ca566c$c4519ca0$4cf4d5e0$@net>
	<8CC248AA46815DD-6B58-26DFF@webmail-m041.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000c01ca567f$ad172150$074563f0$@net>



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
mw2657 at cs.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 2:36 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Louis Ludwig Lichtenstein - lookup on Castle
Garden


Thanks Joe and all, I keep forgetting to look at Castle Garden in addition
to Ellis Island. You are all so helpful, and this was a great reminder for
me!

I have a question, now, as I just went to the Castle Garden site to look for
my ancestor, Louis Ludwig Lichtenstein, and found a Ludwig Lichtenstein, 22
y.o., departed Bremen, origin Pesth, arrived 15 Sept 1858. However, I have
his son's birth in 1856 in Pottstown PA. The entry following Ludwig is for
Eva (wife).

My questions are:
1) Are all arrivals noted at Castle Garden for this period? Were there other
major ports of entry? I have checked Ellis Island, and find no mention of
this family, and know that Ellis Island did not come about for many years
after 1850.

Answer:  There were other ports of entry during this period. Boston,
Philadelphia, Baltimore and New Orleans, to name a few.


2) I have information that Louis's wife was Anna Christina Nagel, and went
by "Christie", not Eva. So is this "Eva" listed as wife, meant to indicate
Louis's wife? They did not arrive at the same time, and there is no one else
showing an arrival date the same as Eva in 1859 in the listing.

Answer:  You are right, no other entry on same date as Eva arrived in 1859.
Eva could be Ludwig's wife, coming later, but I think it just meant Eva was
married.

3) Ludwig's entry shows origin as Pesth, and when I google that, I get a
listing and map for Pesth,  aka Budapest(h), Hungary. My information
indicates Louis Ludwig came from Bavaria (city not known yet). Would
Pesth/Budapest have been part of Bavaria at one time?

Answer:  Don't believe that Pesth/Budapest would ever have been part of
Bavaria.

4) Eva's origin is shown as Sebau, and google offers an alternative lookup
as Sebau near Slovakia. My information shows Anna Christina Nagel was from
Hanover. Would Sebau have been part of Germany, or the Hanover area at any
time?

Answer: Could not locate a Sebau using ShtetlSeeker at
http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp  And, unless you were sure
that Eva was the correct person, you might be wasting time following up on
this location.


5) Are there other German towns or names similar to Sebau or Pesth that I
should be looking in? My Great-great grandfather used to tell my father
stories about being distantly related to the King of Lichtenstein, but these
don't seem to be the right locations to be researching if that is true.

Answer:  Once again, unless you were sure these were the right people,
looking for similar towns might be a waste of time.  There are many (425)
residential Lichtenstein listings in the Germany telephone directory at
http://www2.dastelefonbuch.de/ 
 

6) Since I know Louis Ludwig's son was born in PA in 1856, neither of these
arrivals would support that being a good birth year/place. Any other
suggestions?

Answer:  It appears to me that you would be looking for a Lichtenstein
arrival before 1856, since you seem to be certain of the birth date of Louis
Ludwig's son.

Question:  Do you have any later US census data, 1860 for instance, that
might show when Louis Ludwig Lichtenstein actually arrived in the US?


================

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you may provide. I have been
at a dead-end on this line for @ 10 years.

Regards, 

Maureen Murray Webb 
=====================

Good luck,

Joe in Texas
  



From Krampetz at aol.com  Thu Oct 29 19:50:21 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:50:21 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Interesting new find...
Message-ID: <c3a.600ac32f.381bae6d@aol.com>

There's a Genealogy forum out on LINKEDIN.COM and the following post
just turned up out there.    I'm sure there is some  interesting information
out there for some of you. 
Bob K.
 
 Website for Polish Genealogy: 
_http://www.genealogyindexer.org/_ (http://www.genealogyindexer.org/)   
I recently discovered this web  site:   _http://www.genealogyindexer.org/_ 
(http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http://www.genealogyindexer.org/&urlhas
h=W2pV&_t=disc_detail_link)  
which I discovered on genealodzy.pl  [Polish web site]. 

The site gives you the ability to ... 
Search  77,000 pages of historical directories (business, address, 
telephone, etc.),  28,000 pages of 64 yizkor books (memorials to Jewish communities 
destroyed  during the Holocaust), and 7,000 pages of lists of Polish 
military officers.  Most of the directories are from Poland, Galicia, or Romania. 

PLEASE  take note they list what page # (usually on a digital book from a 
Polish  Archive/ University) you need to look at in their search results. 

I have  already had some successes. They OCR'ed these digital resources and 
built  indexes -- very nice! 

For example I searched on "Pacanow, Eljasz" to  find ancestors from 
ancestral village of PACANOW. You do NOT need to supply  diacriticals (like the 
slahsed l) -- so notice in Pacanow that my 'o' does not  have the accent on it. 

It also worked for "Pacanow, Wlecial" -- where I  do have a slashed l. The 
results were identical whether I used the diacritical  or not. Being an 
American, I liked the convenience of not having to type(or  cut/paste) a 
diacritical character on my searches. 

I know I use  Historical Directories for my American ancestors. Now I can 
do so for my Polsih  Ancestors. 

A big thanks to genealogist Logan Kleinwaks for providing  this excellent 
resource! 

--mike 


From rhundt67 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 29 23:38:29 2009
From: rhundt67 at yahoo.com (Renee Hundt)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] (no subject)
Message-ID: <859473.8050.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://sites.google.com/site/bsogejahsx/nvt5sarie6


      


From marlo50 at bex.net  Fri Oct 30 04:51:05 2009
From: marlo50 at bex.net (marlo)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:51:05 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw:  (no subject)
Message-ID: <FAE96B56D6AD475585CC942956D5C3DF@margaret46066b>

Is this suppose to be on this site?  I don't appreciate receiving ADS on 
what I had assumed was a Genealogy page.
Click on the Google address in the body of the letter.   Margaret
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Renee Hundt" <rhundt67 at yahoo.com>
To: <to=Ann.Farah at milwcnty.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>; 
<reneehundt at penfieldchildren.org>; <5hundts at charter.net>; 
<mgarciav at dcchargers.org>; <jessacafrost at penfieldchildren.org>; 
<kay_nauta at prodigy.net>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:38 AM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] (no subject)


> http://sites.google.com/site/bsogejahsx/nvt5sarie6
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From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Fri Oct 30 05:17:05 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:17:05 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <859473.8050.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <859473.8050.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AEAD941.5090708@shaw.ca>

This spam will be dealt with by me.  Please do not post any further 
questions or comments about it. 


Jerry Frank
List Administrator



Renee Hundt wrote:
> http://sites.google.com
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From zwillingsopa at googlemail.com  Fri Oct 30 10:57:07 2009
From: zwillingsopa at googlemail.com (Gerd)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:57:07 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Neuvorstellung - New image (in deutsch und
	englisch)
In-Reply-To: <4AEAD941.5090708@shaw.ca>
References: <859473.8050.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4AEAD941.5090708@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <B2F8ABF968154E7AA4324BC459AADFC5@GerdPC>

Ein freundliches Hallo in die Runde,

als Neuer m?chte ich die Gelegenheit nutzen und mich kurz vorstellen.

Ich hei?e Gerd K?ke, bin 60 Jahre alt und wohnhaft in Berlin (Deutschland).
Meine Ahnenforschungsschwerpunkte liegen derzeit im heutigen Polen, in den 
Orten
Lodz, Lask, Pabianice, Belchatow und weitere.
Die Namen nach denen ich schwerpunktm??ig forsche sind: ANSPERGER, HEIN, 
FEIGE, KELM, KOLOF (KOHLOFF, KOHLOFF, KUHLOFF, usw.), REDLOF (REDLOW), 
RUTSCH, SCHINK, SCHR?TER, SEELGER und ZINSINGER.

Ich freue mich auf eine gute und erfolgreiche Zusammenarbeit und m?chte noch 
darauf hinweisen, dass meine Englischkenntnisse nur sp?rlich sind. (Es gibt 
ja ?bersetzungsprogramme!)

Mit besten Gr??en aus Berlin

Gerd


A friendly hello to everybody,

as the new one, i want to shortly introduce myself.

 My name is Gerd K?ke, i'm 60 years old and i live in Berlin, Germany.

At the moment my focus of my ancestor research lie on places situated today 
in Poland as: Lodz, Lask, Pabianice, Belchatow and others.

The names i focus on are ANSPERGER, HEIN, FEIGE, KELM, KOLOF (KOHLOFF, 
KOHLOFF, KUHLOFF, usw.), REDLOF (REDLOW), RUTSCH, SCHINK, SCHR?TER, SEELGER 
und ZINSINGER.

I'm looking forward to a successful cooperation, but have to give the hint, 
that my knowledge of english is not so good. Fortunatly i have a son-in-law 
and the online-translator.

Best greeting from the capital

Yours, Gerd 



From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Fri Oct 30 13:18:30 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (Joseph Pessarra)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:18:30 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Neuvorstellung - New image (in deutsch
	und	englisch)
In-Reply-To: <B2F8ABF968154E7AA4324BC459AADFC5@GerdPC>
References: <859473.8050.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4AEAD941.5090708@shaw.ca>
	<B2F8ABF968154E7AA4324BC459AADFC5@GerdPC>
Message-ID: <000001ca599e$26149b70$723dd250$@net>

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Gerd
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:57 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Neuvorstellung - New image (in deutsch und
englisch)

Ein freundliches Hallo in die Runde,

als Neuer m?chte ich die Gelegenheit nutzen und mich kurz vorstellen.

Ich hei?e Gerd K?ke, bin 60 Jahre alt und wohnhaft in Berlin (Deutschland).
Meine Ahnenforschungsschwerpunkte liegen derzeit im heutigen Polen, in den 
Orten
Lodz, Lask, Pabianice, Belchatow und weitere.
Die Namen nach denen ich schwerpunktm??ig forsche sind: ANSPERGER, HEIN, 
FEIGE, KELM, KOLOF (KOHLOFF, KOHLOFF, KUHLOFF, usw.), REDLOF (REDLOW), 
RUTSCH, SCHINK, SCHR?TER, SEELGER und ZINSINGER.

(Rest of message snipped)

Polish phone directory at http://www.ksiazka-telefoniczna.com/  has the
following:

Listings for Lodz:
3 Feige 


Marianna Feige  
Chocianowicka  TEL 42 6801916 
??d?
 
Marianna Feige  
Piotrkowska  TEL 42 6324775 
??d?

W?odzimierz Feige  
Piotrkowska  TEL 42 6332048 
??d?

8 Kelm 

Agata Kelm  
Franciszka?ska  TEL 42 6577132 
??d?

Andrzej Kelm  
Wapienna  TEL 42 6533728 
??d?

Ewa Kelm  
Piotrkowska  TEL 42 6320918 
??d?

Gra?yna Kelm  
Brzozowskiego  TEL 42 6485361 
??d?

Helena Kelm  
Pojezierska  TEL 42 6533061 
??d?

Joanna Kelm  
Gdy?ska  TEL 42 6515026 
??d?

Jolanta Kelm  
Syrenki  TEL 42 6581010 
??d?

Tadeusz Kelm  
Kostki-Napierskiego  TEL 42 6899722 
??d?

Listings for Pabianice:
1 Hein

Maria Hein  
Partyzancka  TEL 42 2121892 
Pabianice


Are you familiar with these people? Maybe they could help you in your
genealogy search.

Your English is just fine.

Good luck.

Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA




From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Fri Oct 30 13:52:53 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:52:53 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop>

 
The village of Szenwald or Szynwald appears fairly frequently in the
Michalki, Rypin parish records.  However, I have been unable to find it on
any map including our usual on-line maps.  If it exists in the Michalki
parish it should be about 30 miles NNW of Plock, in the Rypin area.  Does
anyone know where this village could be.  

Thanks,
Earl Schultz



From duesterhoeft at gmx.de  Fri Oct 30 15:34:01 2009
From: duesterhoeft at gmx.de (=?UTF-8?B?IlN0ZWZhbiBEw7xzdGVyaMO2ZnQgKGR1ZXN0ZXJob2VmdEBnbXguZGUpIg==?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:34:01 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?
In-Reply-To: <8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop>
References: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop>
Message-ID: <4AEB69D9.50407@gmx.de>

Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net wrote on Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:52:53 -0500
> The village of Szenwald or Szynwald appears fairly frequently in the
> Michalki, Rypin parish records.  However, I have been unable to find it

Hi Earl,

Szenwald (Pi?kny Las = "Beautyful Forest") is on mapywig.org's map
"P36_S29_RYPIN" (http://igrek.amzp.pl/4151), however the search engine
doesn't find it. Look north of Michalki. Szenwald is a litte southeast
of Dzierzno (abt. 53?8'35.10" N 19?29'30.60" E).

Stefan


From dbuss at rogers.com  Fri Oct 30 19:21:00 2009
From: dbuss at rogers.com (Dan Buss)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:21:00 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] double messages
Message-ID: <748BE7C7911B49A8BD5430DF317E6E15@DANIEL>

Why am I getting the same messages twice? and how do I rectify this?
Thanks.
Dan B.


From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Fri Oct 30 18:30:51 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:30:51 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?
In-Reply-To: <4AEB69D9.50407@gmx.de>
References: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop> <4AEB69D9.50407@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <F36CAC6432944BF4BBF8973FF7F0317F@Desktop>

Thanks, everyone.  This is indeed the right one in Kreis Rypin but not on my
maps.  Very much appreciated.

Earl 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Stefan D?sterh?ft (duesterhoeft at gmx.de)" [mailto:duesterhoeft at gmx.de]

Sent: October 30, 2009 5:34 PM
To: Earl.Schultz
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?

Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net wrote on Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:52:53 -0500
> The village of Szenwald or Szynwald appears fairly frequently in the 
> Michalki, Rypin parish records.  However, I have been unable to find 
> it

Hi Earl,

Szenwald (Piekny Las = "Beautyful Forest") is on mapywig.org's map
"P36_S29_RYPIN" (http://igrek.amzp.pl/4151), however the search engine
doesn't find it. Look north of Michalki. Szenwald is a litte southeast of
Dzierzno (abt. 53?8'35.10" N 19?29'30.60" E).

Stefan




From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Fri Oct 30 20:41:42 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (Joseph Pessarra)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:41:42 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?
In-Reply-To: <8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop>
References: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop>
Message-ID: <004301ca59dc$0fa529c0$2eef7d40$@net>

Jewish ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp  has
4 Szynwald locations.

Szynwa?d populated place 49?58' N 21?08' E  E M U G Poland  157.8 miles S of
Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E  
Szynwa?d populated place 53?23' N 17?37' E  E M U G Poland  161.4 miles WNW
of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E  
Szynwa?d populated place 53?35' N 19?06' E  E M U G Poland  121.4 miles NW
of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E  
Szynwa?d populated place 53?46' N 18?01' E  E M U G Poland  162.2 miles NW
of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

And Rypin is at this location:
Rypin, Ripin populated place 53?04' N 19?27' E  E M U G Poland  86.0 miles
NW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E

Comparing the 4 Szynwald locations to the Rypin location, we get the
following:

Szynwa?d populated place 49?58' N 21?08' E  E M U G Poland  225.9 miles SSE
of 53?04' N 19?27' E  
Szynwa?d populated place 53?23' N 17?37' E  E M U G Poland  78.9 miles WNW
of 53?04' N 19?27' E  
Szynwa?d populated place 53?35' N 19?06' E  E M U G Poland  38.5 miles NNW
of 53?04' N 19?27' E  
Szynwa?d populated place 53?46' N 18?01' E  E M U G Poland  76.3 miles NW of
53?04' N 19?27' E

It appears that the 3rd Szynwald location is the closest to Rypin.  If you
go to ShtetlSeeker, you can get the corresponding map for the locations.

Joe in Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Earl.Schultz
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 3:53 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?

 
The village of Szenwald or Szynwald appears fairly frequently in the
Michalki, Rypin parish records.  However, I have been unable to find it on
any map including our usual on-line maps.  If it exists in the Michalki
parish it should be about 30 miles NNW of Plock, in the Rypin area.  Does
anyone know where this village could be.  

Thanks,
Earl Schultz


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Fri Oct 30 23:30:45 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:30:45 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?
References: <mailman.1.1253214003.11705.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<8EF848744B614FA4B39342CC356D4D90@Desktop>
Message-ID: <002c01ca59f3$aeb12390$f800a8c0@end2000>

Good morning Earl,

Szynwald is situated on the really edge of Rypin parish. That should be the 
reason for frequently appearance.
If you use "mapa.szukacz.pl" as URL of your browser (delete appearing 
"Reklama") , write Szynwald to "Miejscowosc" on the right side and click on 
"Pokaz".
You will see a marked Szynwald, south of Kielce. Click left mouse to a free 
place within map, HOLD left mouse and draw down.
You will see Szynwald east of Grudziaz. Double-click on this mark.
There is a scale at the right side of the map. Click on "384m": you will see 
the relation of Szynwald to town of Rypin (south).
Distance to Rypin is about 60 km.
Click on 96m at the scale and you see Szynwald about 25 km northeast of 
Grudziaz.

Hannes W.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:52 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Where is Szenwald, Rypin?


>
> The village of Szenwald or Szynwald appears fairly frequently in the
> Michalki, Rypin parish records.  However, I have been unable to find it on
> any map including our usual on-line maps.  If it exists in the Michalki
> parish it should be about 30 miles NNW of Plock, in the Rypin area.  Does
> anyone know where this village could be.
>
> Thanks,
> Earl Schultz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 




From colnels at telus.net  Sat Oct 31 20:40:59 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:40:59 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG
In-Reply-To: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
References: <000601ca4f72$0651ca50$6401a8c0@cft>
Message-ID: <000901ca5aa5$20ef0740$62cd15c0$@net>

Hello Sandy:
Was Gottlieb's father Karl and his mother Julianne Beier? Birthdate 20
October 1885
Was Julianne's father Wilhelm and her mother Pauline Pinkoski? Birthdate 01
July 1885
Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Sandy
Burke
Sent: October-17-09 3:37 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] HARTWIG

Seeking the location of a village in Volhynia, Russia (1880"s) that looks
like "Emilien" on the ship manifest from the SS Koln which landed in
Baltimore in Feb. 1910.  Family named Hartwig, nine children; parents were
Gottlieb Hartwig and Julianne or Julia Mueller or Muller.  The family were
Lutheran.
Sandy

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