From ra_stein at telus.net  Fri May  1 07:04:32 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:04:32 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,
	Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <001801c9ca0d$a0d52a80$e27f7f80$@net>
References: <c83.37acaf7a.372bba6c@aol.com>
	<001801c9ca0d$a0d52a80$e27f7f80$@net>
Message-ID: <E7A20648F6A840CA9B167369A90059BE@RichardPC>

Rozyszcze parish microfilm 2380032, Reg. #1268 has the death of Gustav Knull 
on 17 Mar 1886 at Antonowka Munkowitz, parents Christian Knull and Rosalie 
Schulz.

Dick Stein



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
To: <BruceB2332 at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,Issue 
22


>
> Hello: Is that the Gustav Knull born 09 March 1885 to Christian Knull and
> Rosalie Schultz probably in Antonowka,Volhynia? He has a brother Johann 11
> Feb 1883.
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> BruceB2332 at aol.com
> Sent: April-30-09 8:38 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, 
> Issue
> 22
>
>
> LEOKADIA KNULL IS MY GRANDMOTHER'S NEICE! HER FATHER WAS GUSTAV KNULL.
> PLEASE PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH HER IF YOU PLEASE.
> SINCERELY,
> pROFESSOR BRUCE W. BRAUN\
> PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION AT WISCONSIN LUTHERAN COLLEGE IN MILWAUKEE,
> WISCONSIN.
> tHANK YOU!
> BRUCE
>
>
> **************
> Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
> Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?
> redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d
> oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>
>
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> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 



From walters.cathy at yahoo.com  Fri May  1 07:30:31 2009
From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com (Cathy Walters)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 07:30:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Happy May Day everyone! Do you remember&
	celebrate it?
Message-ID: <730819.47254.qm@web57406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

My grand fathers 1st cousin Edward Rossin of Winona,MN would hold May Day dances in his barn with polka bands for about 10 years til 1933.In my Rochester,MN neighborhood we made popcorn and candy,put it on the steps,knock and run to avoid being kissed.Moving to Elgin,MN  1977 we continued that tradition and when we moved to the other side of town in 1989,teachers were also hoping to get goodies.Though my neighborhood children are grown and lead busy lives and may have forgotten, new children are in the neighborhood I still continue it with May Day bags with Happy May Day written on it,my oldest grand gives to her friends-8th grade.Do you remember that old tradition and keep it alive? Was your tradition different? Cathy in Elgin,MN       Happy May Day!


  ALWAYS A ROSE 
       

From ra_stein at telus.net  Fri May  1 07:41:15 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:41:15 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,
	Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <c1c.55236ccf.372bb9fe@aol.com>
References: <c1c.55236ccf.372bb9fe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <95D978CA997548E49CC60CBAEDD5F05F@RichardPC>

Bruce,
The Christian Knull / Rosalie Schneider family migrated in the early 1870's 
from Gessek, Petrikau, Poland to Antonowka, Kreis Wladimir, Volhynia. 
Christian was born about 1818; he died in 1874 in Antonowka. Possibly some 
of Christian's siblings also migrated to Volhynia.  There are some mid 
1800's Knull records in Belchatow parish (Poland) but I suspect most records 
were in Petrikau parish.  There are many Knull BMD events in Rozyszcze 
parish and later in Wladimir parish.  See the series of microfilms 2380017 
to 2380038 for records to 1895, or the St. Petersburg Archive microfilms for 
records to 1885 (also indexed on the Odessa site and the SGGEE website). 
Four of Christian's sons and their families migrated to Leduc, Alberta, 
Canada in 1901, and his other children remained in Volhynia as far as I 
know.

Dick Stein


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BruceB2332 at aol.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,Issue 
22


>
> dICK,
> i AM STILL SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ON THE CHRISTIAN KNULL FAMILY.  MY
> GRANDMOTHER WAS EMMA KNULL BUELOW;  HER BROTHER WAS G8STAV KNULL.  HE DIED 
> IN
> UKRAINE DURING WW2.
> PLEASE SEND ME ANY INFORMATION ON THE KNULLS THAT YOU CAN.
> SINCERELY,
> BRUCE. W. BRAUN
>
>
> **************
> Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
> Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:
> %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 



From Margrit.Weigel at gmx.de  Fri May  1 07:48:28 2009
From: Margrit.Weigel at gmx.de (Margrit Hilscher)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:48:28 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,
	Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <c1c.55236ccf.372bb9fe@aol.com>
References: <c1c.55236ccf.372bb9fe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090501144828.75450@gmx.net>

Hi Bruce,

I have a Leokadia Geisler, born Apr. 2nd 1918 in Postenkaliza/Petrikau as a daughter of Natalie Knull and Adolf Geisler. Do you know a connection to your Leokadia Knull???

Best regards

Margrit Hilscher


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:35:42 EDT
> Von: BruceB2332 at aol.com
> An: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Betreff: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,	Issue 22

> dICK,
> i AM STILL SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ON THE CHRISTIAN KNULL FAMILY.  MY 
> GRANDMOTHER WAS EMMA KNULL BUELOW;  HER BROTHER WAS G8STAV KNULL.  HE DIED
> IN 
> UKRAINE DURING WW2.
> PLEASE SEND ME ANY INFORMATION ON THE KNULLS THAT YOU CAN.
> SINCERELY,
> BRUCE. W. BRAUN
> 
> 
> **************
> Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and 
> Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:
> %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Fri May  1 07:58:17 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 08:58:17 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Friendly reminder - Digest messages
Message-ID: <f324bd935c6d.49fab9a9@shaw.ca>

Some of our members receive their mail in digest form which changes the subject line.? This is just a friendly reminder that, if you are responding to a digest message, you should:

1.? Change the subject line back to the original? (or at least something similar).

2.? Delete any other messages in the response that are not relevant to the issue being responded to.

A few extra seconds of your time will benefit all our readers.

Thank you.

Jerry Frank
List Administrator



From Spaghettitree at aol.com  Fri May  1 11:59:44 2009
From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:59:44 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Happy May Day everyone! Do you remember&
	celebrate ...
Message-ID: <cb2.5405b667.372ca0a0@aol.com>

I remember May Day at public school in Kirkwood, MO (Pitman) making little  
craft paper baskets each year and decorating them, I think they held paper  
flowers too - but only took mine home to mom - and no memory of whether she 
 liked it.  Was never allowed out of the yard, except to go to school, so  
don't have any knowledge of going to anyone else's house with one.    May 
Day at high school, senior year, all girls would dress in a formal and  parade 
around in an outdoor ceremony (there was a large tree in the center  of a 
natural bowl in front of the school - the tree since killed and the bowl  
filled in - with crepe paper wound around the tree) except I didn't have a  
formal, so I just took pictures.    There was a May Queen crowned  that day as 
well, with her King and her Court, and those girls all had huge  bouquets.   
.
 
I do still have the craft paper multi-colored interlocked rings which all  
the kids made and the birthday child got to keep (if you had a birthday 
during  the school year) and wear home, lei style.  It has pretty much  
disintegrated now, but I still remember how lovely that was!   I think  that was in 
kindergarten.  I'd like to know where that tradition came  from.
 
I like your version better! 
 
Maureen
 
 
In a message dated 5/1/2009 7:33:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
walters.cathy at yahoo.com writes:

My grand  fathers 1st cousin Edward Rossin of Winona,MN would hold May Day 
dances in his  barn with polka bands for about 10 years til 1933.In my 
Rochester,MN  neighborhood we made popcorn and candy,put it on the steps,knock 
and run to  avoid being kissed.Moving to Elgin,MN  1977 we continued that 
tradition  and when we moved to the other side of town in 1989,teachers were 
also hoping  to get goodies.Though my neighborhood children are grown and lead 
busy lives  and may have forgotten, new children are in the neighborhood I 
still continue  it with May Day bags with Happy May Day written on it,my 
oldest grand gives to  her friends-8th grade.Do you remember that old tradition 
and keep it alive?  Was your tradition different? Cathy in Elgin,MN        
Happy May Day!


ALWAYS A ROSE 


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv


**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
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From thejoneses at shaw.ca  Fri May  1 12:25:41 2009
From: thejoneses at shaw.ca (Carol Jones)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:25:41 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71,
	Issue 22
References: <c1c.55236ccf.372bb9fe@aol.com>
	<95D978CA997548E49CC60CBAEDD5F05F@RichardPC>
Message-ID: <755E28D14D0D4A94BCA33E44940C90F8@GENE>

On film #2380020 is the birth in Antonowka of Lydia Knull to Christian Knull 
and Rosalie Schulz, 20 Sep 1888, p. 274 #2195.

Carol Jones

























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Stein" <ra_stein at telus.net>
To: <BruceB2332 at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 
22


> Bruce,
> The Christian Knull / Rosalie Schneider family migrated in the early 
> 1870's
> from Gessek, Petrikau, Poland to Antonowka, Kreis Wladimir, Volhynia.
> Christian was born about 1818; he died in 1874 in Antonowka. Possibly some
> of Christian's siblings also migrated to Volhynia.  There are some mid
> 1800's Knull records in Belchatow parish (Poland) but I suspect most 
> records
> were in Petrikau parish.  There are many Knull BMD events in Rozyszcze
> parish and later in Wladimir parish.  See the series of microfilms 2380017
> to 2380038 for records to 1895, or the St. Petersburg Archive microfilms 
> for
> records to 1885 (also indexed on the Odessa site and the SGGEE website).
> Four of Christian's sons and their families migrated to Leduc, Alberta,
> Canada in 1901, and his other children remained in Volhynia as far as I
> know.
>
> Dick Stein
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <BruceB2332 at aol.com>
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 
> 71,Issue
> 22
>
>
>>
>> dICK,
>> i AM STILL SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ON THE CHRISTIAN KNULL FAMILY.  MY
>> GRANDMOTHER WAS EMMA KNULL BUELOW;  HER BROTHER WAS G8STAV KNULL.  HE 
>> DIED
>> IN
>> UKRAINE DURING WW2.
>> PLEASE SEND ME ANY INFORMATION ON THE KNULLS THAT YOU CAN.
>> SINCERELY,
>> BRUCE. W. BRAUN
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
>> Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:
>> %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



From rakow at ifh.de  Fri May  1 12:31:06 2009
From: rakow at ifh.de (Paul Rakow)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:31:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1241031602.25990.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1241031602.25990.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.10.0905012054000.11371@pub1.ifh.de>


   Jeff,

       How much history of your Wagner family in Annette do you already know?

       This year I've been tracing the ancestors of my great-great-grandmother's
  second husband, (though I'm descended from her first husband). Among his
  ancestors were Carl WAGNER and Justina GLAUBITZ, early settlers in Annette.
  I think they arrived in Annette shortly before 1818; before that (in 1814)
  they were in a village called Kor"of, near Annopol, Kreis Ostrog, in western
  Volhynia. (I've found a possibility for Annopol, I'm not sure about the
  identity of Kor"of).  Earlier than that, I've found one statement in the
  church book that Carl Wagner was born in Galicia, (so I was interested
  in what Howard wrote).

       This is the first time I've looked at people who were in Volhynia
  so early.

       Are these your Wagners? I also have some notes on other early Wagners
  in the area, who may or may not be connected to this family.

              Paul Rakow
              rakow at ifh.de


  "Jeff Krebs" <jeffkrebs at shaw.ca> wrote: 
>
> Where can I write requesting information on my Wagner family that came from
> Annette in Volhynia in 1909?  I'm trying to trace them back prior to coming
> to Annette and I have no more information.
>
> Thank you for your assistance.
>
> Jeff Krebs
>


From thejoneses at shaw.ca  Fri May  1 12:56:57 2009
From: thejoneses at shaw.ca (Carol Jones)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:56:57 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia
References: <mailman.1.1241031602.25990.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<alpine.LRH.1.10.0905012054000.11371@pub1.ifh.de>
Message-ID: <0D2F4255F7E747A8B76CCDCA55B7D322@GENE>

Hello Paul and Jeff,

I'm tracing Wilhelmine Wagner who married Gottlieb Wuerch and had 3 or 4 
children in the 1850's in Valerianowka, then 5 or more  in Gnadental in the 
1860's.  Can either of you help?

Carol Jones researching "Which Wurch/Werch/Wuerch/Wirch/Wuirch is which"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Rakow" <rakow at ifh.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia


>
>   Jeff,
>
>       How much history of your Wagner family in Annette do you already 
> know?
>
>       This year I've been tracing the ancestors of my 
> great-great-grandmother's
>  second husband, (though I'm descended from her first husband). Among his
>  ancestors were Carl WAGNER and Justina GLAUBITZ, early settlers in 
> Annette.
>  I think they arrived in Annette shortly before 1818; before that (in 
> 1814)
>  they were in a village called Kor"of, near Annopol, Kreis Ostrog, in 
> western
>  Volhynia. (I've found a possibility for Annopol, I'm not sure about the
>  identity of Kor"of).  Earlier than that, I've found one statement in the
>  church book that Carl Wagner was born in Galicia, (so I was interested
>  in what Howard wrote).
>
>       This is the first time I've looked at people who were in Volhynia
>  so early.
>
>       Are these your Wagners? I also have some notes on other early 
> Wagners
>  in the area, who may or may not be connected to this family.
>
>              Paul Rakow
>              rakow at ifh.de
>
>
>  "Jeff Krebs" <jeffkrebs at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Where can I write requesting information on my Wagner family that came 
>> from
>> Annette in Volhynia in 1909?  I'm trying to trace them back prior to 
>> coming
>> to Annette and I have no more information.
>>
>> Thank you for your assistance.
>>
>> Jeff Krebs
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



From ehaas3 at cox.net  Fri May  1 13:10:23 2009
From: ehaas3 at cox.net (Eleanor)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:10:23 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Happy May Day everyone! Do you
	remember&celebrate ...
In-Reply-To: <cb2.5405b667.372ca0a0@aol.com>
References: <cb2.5405b667.372ca0a0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <98B888E6431C4A93B767F8DEA48537D7@EleanorPC>

Every year on May 1st my Dad would go out into the woods and pick some wild 
flowers and bring them in to my Mother.

Eleanor Haas

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Spaghettitree at aol.com>
To: <walters.cathy at yahoo.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Happy May Day everyone! Do you 
remember&celebrate ...


>I remember May Day at public school in Kirkwood, MO (Pitman) making little
> craft paper baskets each year and decorating them, I think they held paper
> flowers too - but only took mine home to mom - and no memory of whether 
> she
> liked it.  Was never allowed out of the yard, except to go to school, so
> don't have any knowledge of going to anyone else's house with one.    May
> Day at high school, senior year, all girls would dress in a formal and 
> parade
> around in an outdoor ceremony (there was a large tree in the center  of a
> natural bowl in front of the school - the tree since killed and the bowl
> filled in - with crepe paper wound around the tree) except I didn't have a
> formal, so I just took pictures.    There was a May Queen crowned  that 
> day as
> well, with her King and her Court, and those girls all had huge  bouquets.
> .
>
> I do still have the craft paper multi-colored interlocked rings which all
> the kids made and the birthday child got to keep (if you had a birthday
> during  the school year) and wear home, lei style.  It has pretty much
> disintegrated now, but I still remember how lovely that was!   I think 
> that was in
> kindergarten.  I'd like to know where that tradition came  from.
>
> I like your version better!
>
> Maureen
>
>
> In a message dated 5/1/2009 7:33:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> walters.cathy at yahoo.com writes:
>
> My grand  fathers 1st cousin Edward Rossin of Winona,MN would hold May Day
> dances in his  barn with polka bands for about 10 years til 1933.In my
> Rochester,MN  neighborhood we made popcorn and candy,put it on the 
> steps,knock
> and run to  avoid being kissed.Moving to Elgin,MN  1977 we continued that
> tradition  and when we moved to the other side of town in 1989,teachers 
> were
> also hoping  to get goodies.Though my neighborhood children are grown and 
> lead
> busy lives  and may have forgotten, new children are in the neighborhood I
> still continue  it with May Day bags with Happy May Day written on it,my
> oldest grand gives to  her friends-8th grade.Do you remember that old 
> tradition
> and keep it alive?  Was your tradition different? Cathy in Elgin,MN
> Happy May Day!
>
>
> ALWAYS A ROSE
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From jeffkrebs at shaw.ca  Fri May  1 13:21:11 2009
From: jeffkrebs at shaw.ca (Jeff Krebs)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:21:11 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <0D2F4255F7E747A8B76CCDCA55B7D322@GENE>
References: <mailman.1.1241031602.25990.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<alpine.LRH.1.10.0905012054000.11371@pub1.ifh.de>
	<0D2F4255F7E747A8B76CCDCA55B7D322@GENE>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAN9bKDrhL2FPhsII4W4Usw3CgAAAEAAAAB5sU2XFldBKsX/5pRpc1XgBAAAAAA==@shaw.ca>

Carol

I was visiting with a cousin last evening and going through some of his
family collections.  Wilhelmine Wagner jumps out at me.  I've got his stuff
for a week so will keep you in mind as I go through it.

Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Jones [mailto:thejoneses at shaw.ca] 
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:57 PM
To: Paul Rakow; Jeff Krebs; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia

Hello Paul and Jeff,

I'm tracing Wilhelmine Wagner who married Gottlieb Wuerch and had 3 or 4 
children in the 1850's in Valerianowka, then 5 or more  in Gnadental in the 
1860's.  Can either of you help?

Carol Jones researching "Which Wurch/Werch/Wuerch/Wirch/Wuirch is which"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Rakow" <rakow at ifh.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia


>
>   Jeff,
>
>       How much history of your Wagner family in Annette do you already 
> know?
>
>       This year I've been tracing the ancestors of my 
> great-great-grandmother's
>  second husband, (though I'm descended from her first husband). Among his
>  ancestors were Carl WAGNER and Justina GLAUBITZ, early settlers in 
> Annette.
>  I think they arrived in Annette shortly before 1818; before that (in 
> 1814)
>  they were in a village called Kor"of, near Annopol, Kreis Ostrog, in 
> western
>  Volhynia. (I've found a possibility for Annopol, I'm not sure about the
>  identity of Kor"of).  Earlier than that, I've found one statement in the
>  church book that Carl Wagner was born in Galicia, (so I was interested
>  in what Howard wrote).
>
>       This is the first time I've looked at people who were in Volhynia
>  so early.
>
>       Are these your Wagners? I also have some notes on other early 
> Wagners
>  in the area, who may or may not be connected to this family.
>
>              Paul Rakow
>              rakow at ifh.de
>
>
>  "Jeff Krebs" <jeffkrebs at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Where can I write requesting information on my Wagner family that came 
>> from
>> Annette in Volhynia in 1909?  I'm trying to trace them back prior to 
>> coming
>> to Annette and I have no more information.
>>
>> Thank you for your assistance.
>>
>> Jeff Krebs
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



From fenenga at connpoint.net  Sat May  2 12:30:15 2009
From: fenenga at connpoint.net (fenenga@connpoint.net)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 12:30:15 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner
Message-ID: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>

  

	the discussion of Wagners has me cautiously hopeful. 

	has anyone run across a Charles/Carl/Carroll Jacob or Joseph Wagner,
b. abt 1855 of Russian Poland, to Anton and Thekla? it is all I have
on my great grandfather prior to his marriage in Boston,
Massachusetts, USA in 1884 and I just cannot seem to find anything on
him in the old country. much of the family papers were burned by my
great grandmother's second husband, so if there had been documents
such as seaman's papers (he was a mariner) or visas or such, they are
long gone. he also left little in the way of a paper trail elsewhere.
I don't have the funds to research in depth, so I haven't been able
to access everything that might pertain to him, but I do have his
city directory listings, some of his work records and his medical
records. the rest, including naturalization, imigration, death and
burial have eluded me for nearly 20 years. are there no relatives out
there? 

	many thanks for any ideas, information or directions as to where I
might find him. 

	regards, 

	Cornelia 

	Oregon, USA

From gswilson19 at aol.com  Sat May  2 12:40:18 2009
From: gswilson19 at aol.com (gswilson19@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 15:40:18 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done
In-Reply-To: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
Message-ID: <8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to be from.

Gail



From albertmuth at aol.com  Sat May  2 14:19:59 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 17:19:59 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
	<8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9982E1D61115-13D4-22F1@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com>

I imagine we will find a variety of haplogroups amongst SGGEE members,?

since the places of origin are widespread.







My haplogroup is R1a or perhaps R1a1. I did not have the most in depth



test run, so my results came back with this question.









R1a1 is found in up to 50% of Ashkenazi Jews (those of Eastern Europe



including Poland and the Ukraine); and it rather surprised me that



my closest matches are, in fact, Jewish. ?The homeland of the Ashkenazi?



Jews was not Eastern Europe; in medieval times, they lived in the



Rhineland area of Germany.









My family tradition is that my surname Muth (with a standard German



meaning of 'courage') was originally Demuth (meaning 'humility').



The region of origin was Alsace-Lorraine (same general area as?



Rhineland), and the person who made?the migration happens to?



be the person with whom I lose my paper?trail as I trace the family?



backward. ?Daniel Muth showed up in?Stypin, Poland and witnesses?



a baptism in the Catholic parish of?Modzerowo in 1794. ?His son?



Samuel is baptized there in 1796,?and marries in the parish of Babiak?



in 1815.









I have hypothesized that the Demuth name became Muth upon



arrival in Poland, where the prefix De- is used in front of a surname



to show a noble origin (as in French). ?It can also be used in the



records to translate German VON.










Trust me, the people named in my closest matches are Jewish.



The test does not come back clues that allow you, independently,



to trace their ancestry. ?My closest match is a 21 year old from



a highly prominent Jewish family in San Diego, with strong ties



to Israel on his maternal side. His middle name is an invented



family surname--no one else in the world has it but a small group



of people who descend from one Russian Jew in New York City.



And it is not just coincidence of names; I pieced together his



family tree just by googling, using CA birth and marriage records



at ancestry.com, and finding his full name in a book dedication,



the book being the autobiography of a woman American novelist



whose name I am sure everyone knows (her books are in



almost every supermarket that I have ever shopped at in a?



cash register display; this is on his MOTHER's side of the



family). ?My supposed connection?with him is back about?



13 generations, or 325 years ago.









The next step for me, is to do a more in-depth test using more



markers.







Al Muth

Livonia, Michigan













-----Original Message-----

From: gswilson19 at aol.com

To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 3:40 pm

Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done











I'm curious whether anyone20on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves 
or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to 
be from.

Gail


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




 









From gswilson19 at aol.com  Sat May  2 14:49:01 2009
From: gswilson19 at aol.com (gswilson19@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 17:49:01 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <8CB9982E1D61115-13D4-22F1@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net><8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CB9982E1D61115-13D4-22F1@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9986F031AEFF-748-2BD9@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com>

Al,

?? My Haplo group comes back the same as yours R1a or R1a1 also.? It suprised me in that I always thought of my ancestors as ethnically German.? But Germans seems to be a small part of the R1a group.? 

Gail


-----Original Message-----
From: albertmuth at aol.com
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 2:19 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done



I imagine we will find a variety of haplogroups amongst SGGEE members,?

since the places of origin are widespread.







My haplogroup is R1a or perhaps R1a1. I did not have the most in depth



test run, so my results came back with this question.









R1a1 is found in up to 50% of Ashkenazi Jews (those of Eastern Europe



including Poland and the Ukraine); and it rather surprised me that



my closest matches are, in fact, Jewish. ?The homeland of the Ashkenazi?



Jews was not Eastern Europe; in medieval times, they lived in the



Rhineland area of Germany.









My family tradition is that my surname Muth (with a standard German



meaning of 'courage') was originally Demuth (meaning 'humility').



The region of origin was Alsace-Lorraine (same general area as?



Rhineland), and the person who made?the migration happens to?



be the person with whom I lose my paper?trail as I trace the family?



backward. ?Daniel Muth showed up in?Stypin, Poland and witnesses?



a baptism in the Catholic parish of?Modzerowo in 1794. ?His son?



Samuel is baptized there in 1796,?and marries in the parish of Babiak?



in 1815.









I have hypothesized that the Demuth name became Muth upon



arrival in Poland, where the prefix De- is used in front of a surname



to show a noble origin (as in French). ?It can also be used in the



records to translate German VON.










Trust me, the people named in my closest matches are Jewish.



The test does not come back clues that allow you, independently,



to trace their ancestry. ?My closest match is a 21 year old from



a highly prominent Jewish family in San Diego, with strong ties



to Israel on his maternal side. His middle name is an invented



family surname--no one else in the world has it but a small group



of people who descend from one Russian Jew in New York City.



And it is not just coincidence of names; I pieced together his



family tree just by googling, using CA birth and marriage records



at ancestry.com, and finding his full name
 in a book dedication,



the book being the autobiography of a woman American novelist



whose name I am sure everyone knows (her books are in



almost every supermarket that I have ever shopped at in a?



cash register display; this is on his MOTHER's side of the



family). ?My supposed connection?with him is back about?



13 generations, or 325 years ago.









The next step for me, is to do a more in-depth test using more



markers.







Al Muth

Livonia, Michigan













-----Original Message-----

From: gswilson19 at aol.com

To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 3:40 pm

Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done











I'm curious whether anyone20on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves 
or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to 
be from.

Gail


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




 








_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From perry1121 at aol.com  Sat May  2 15:20:36 2009
From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 17:20:36 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
 done
In-Reply-To: <8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
	<8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <49FCC734.9060802@aol.com>

Gail,

My Pohl family Y-dna is R1b at 42 markers, and my mtdna haplogroup is H. 
The closest matches for either put us solidly in northern Europe which 
includes Germany, the Scandinavian countries and the British Isles. I 
expected that as both haplogroups are very common in this region. It 
would be interesting to see if a group like SGGEE had closer matches 
because of intermarriage within the same "tribe" in the late 19th and 
early 20th centuries.

DNA for genealogy can be helpful. My husband joined the Perry surname 
project; his y-dna is E3b1a and this means he can eliminate all those 
families with that name who have a different haplogroup. He has a few 
fairly close matches to people whose ancestors came from the same 
colonial region in the US, but no paper trail to them. But the "control" 
on what this means rests on the fact that his second cousin twice 
removed has identical markers, matched at every point at all 37 markers; 
their common ancestor lived in the early 19th century. So relating to 
someone with only 35/37 could mean too many years back to trace.

Sigrid Pohl Perry

gswilson19 at aol.com wrote:
> I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to be from.
>
> Gail
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   



From ohgrmtns at aol.com  Sat May  2 15:34:24 2009
From: ohgrmtns at aol.com (Kristen)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 18:34:24 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <49FCC734.9060802@aol.com>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net><8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
	<49FCC734.9060802@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB998D477C4CE2-11D0-2EC3@MBLK-D29.sysops.aol.com>

Where have you gone to have this testing done?


Kristen Feifert Clark


-----Original Message-----
From: Sigrid Pohl Perry <perry1121 at aol.com>
To: gswilson19 at aol.com
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done



Gail,

My Pohl family Y-dna is R1b at 42 markers, and my mtdna haplogroup is H. 
The closest matches for either put us solidly in northern Europe which 
includes Germany, the Scandinavian countries and the British Isles. I 
expected that as both haplogroups are very common in this region. It 
would be interesting to see if a group like SGGEE had closer matches 
because of intermarriage within the same "tribe" in the late 19th and 
early 20th centuries.

DNA for genealogy can be helpful. My husband joined the Perry surname 
project; his y-dna is E3b1a and this means he can eliminate all those 
families with that name who have a different haplogroup. He has a few 
fairly close matches to people whose ancestors came from the same 
colonial region in the US, but no paper trail to them. But the "control" 
on what this means rests on the fact that his second cousin twice 
removed has identical markers, matched at every point at all 37 markers; 
their common ancestor lived in the early 19th century. So relating to 
someone with only 35/37 could mean too many years back to trace.

Sigrid Pohl Perry

gswilson19 at aol.com wrote:
> I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves 
or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to 
be from.
>
> Gail
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From otto at schienke.com  Sat May  2 15:39:31 2009
From: otto at schienke.com (Otto)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:39:31 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
	<8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <92141208-6BFD-46A2-AD4F-59607EA008C5@schienke.com>

I am certain some have tested for DNA results.
Some companies test for "STR" results, some test for "SNP" results.

Haplogroups are useful if they contain sub-claves (subgroups)
A R1 haplogroup states very little. Most of Western Europe types R1  
where it is clustered in various national populations.
This is too broad spectrum to qualify anything more than a generic  
belonging to a huge group of people.

In your question you ask what haplogroup ancestors are from?
Who was the company testing you?
This is in reference to:
Paternal Haplogroup?
or
Maternal mitochondrial DNA based Haplogroup?
The test should provide both.

My son and I submitted to DNA testing, with <23andme.com>, a 50,000  
marker "SNP" test, by recommendation of Mark D. Shriver, molecular  
anthropologist at Penn State University. The test includes information  
on 22 chromosomes with special attention to the Y chromosome and the  
mitochondrial DNA markers.

The paternal haplogroup returned is "R1b1c9"
The haplogroup is broken down as "R" "1"  "b" "1" "c" "9"
R1b1c4 is characteristic of the Basque,
R1b1c7 reaches its peak in Ireland
R1b1c9 is most commonly found on the fringes of the North Sea.

Comparing this discovery with secondary evidence accumulated over the  
years, we zeroed in on East Frisia.
Two pieces of secondary evidence:
1. My surname (Schienke) containing the ancient "ie" diphthong.
(It pointed to Dutch or East Frisian origin, leaning toward the Frisian)
2. In a textbook written 1804 containing "echte" (authentic) Frisian  
surnames,"Schienke" was one of them. (much more evidence than can be  
aired here)

3. I googled my surname "Schienke Niedersachsen" (Lower Saxony) (the  
Frisian areas are now Dutch and German-Lower Saxony) and found that  
many "Schienke" still live  and are buried there.
(After 500 years. . .  Home at last!)

My son's maternal haplogroup showed a streak of Atilla in it so he had  
a special test performed with his personal genome information which  
also contained a test for Ashkenazi markers. The result: 0.00%  
Ashkenazi.

I can inquire of him where the test was performed.
DNA testing is a new science without standardization yet is growing  
rapidly in expertise daily.

It would behoove all not to quickly jump to conclusions on origin with  
a palmful of information possessed.

Genetic typing using DNA is a new field very similar to computer  
software in the 1990's. It lacks standardization. Every company wants  
to "posture" first in line in the marketplace. We have "str's" and  
"snp's" used to define ethnicity.. We also have varying number systems  
for haplogroup comparison with different organizations.

On May 2, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Gswilson19 at aol.com wrote:

> I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on  
> themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they  
> found their ancestors to be from.
>
> Gail
>




. . .   Otto
         " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
              ________________________________
                "The future. . . . always catches up."



From fenenga at connpoint.net  Sat May  2 15:59:17 2009
From: fenenga at connpoint.net (fenenga@connpoint.net)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 15:59:17 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
Message-ID: <62022.1241305157@connpoint.net>

  

	my husband and I tested. unfortunately neither of our direct dna
lines are the ones we struggle with so hard, the Russian Poland and
German/Alsacian ones for me, and the German ones for him. and,
unfortunately, those lines have either daughtered out (a high
propensity of that) or the cousins are so distant/not interested in
testing, so we struggle in that as well. 

	so it is our British ancestors that we ended up being tested for,
and not the German lines. the only branch in my maternal ancestry I'm
able to find male descendants of, (Weyrauch of Scheichen, Bergzabern,
Germany) those whom I can find eddresses for, do not reply to my
emails. too sad, a little help goes a very long way. 

	Cornelia

From gswilson19 at aol.com  Sat May  2 16:04:47 2009
From: gswilson19 at aol.com (gswilson19@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 19:04:47 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <EEF73928-9C66-45B1-B003-706FDEE64833@schienke.com>
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
	<8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
	<EEF73928-9C66-45B1-B003-706FDEE64833@schienke.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9991862DF97C-960-280F@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

Otto,

?? Thank you so much for writing to me.? This is all new to me and I am just starting to try to learn more.? You sound very educated in this.? I had my paternal side tested through 23andme.com? - 33 markers.? I had my mothers paternal side (her uncle) through familytreedna.com? - 12 markers.? 50,000 markers is very impressive.? I can only imagine what that cost you!? The haplotree that comes back for both sides is R1a1.

Gail


-----Original Message-----
From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
To: Gswilson19 at aol.com
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done


I am certain some have tested for DNA results.?
Some companies test for "STR" results, some test for "SNP" results.?
?
Haplogroups are useful if they contain sub-claves (subgroups)?
A R1 haplogroup states very little. Most of Western Europe types R1 where it is clustered in various national populations.?
This is too broad spectrum to qualify anything more than a generic belonging to a huge group of people.?
?
In your question you ask what haplogroup ancestors are from??
Who was the company testing you??
This is in reference to:?
Paternal Haplogroup??
or?
Maternal mitochondrial DNA based Haplogroup??
The test should provide both.?
?
My son and I submitted to DNA testing, with <23andme.com>, a 50,000 marker "SNP" test, by recommendation of Mark D. Shriver, molecular anthropologist at Penn State University. The test includes information on 22 chromosomes with special attention to the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA markers.?
?
The paternal haplogroup returned is "R1b1c9"?
The haplogroup is broken down as "R" "1" "b" "1" "c" "9"?
R1b1c4 is characteristic of the Basque,?
R1b1c7 reaches its peak in Ireland?
R1b1c9 is most commonly found on the fringes of the North Sea.?
?
Comparing this discovery with secondary evidence accumulated over the years, we zeroed in on East Frisia.?
Two pieces of secondary evidence:?
1. My surname (Schienke) containing the ancient "ie" diphthong.?
(It pointed to Dutch or East Frisian origin, leaning toward the Frisian)?
2. In a textbook written 1804 containing "echte" (authentic) Frisian surnames,"Schienke" was one of them. (much more evidence than can be aired here)?
?
3. I googled my surname "Schienke Niedersachsen" (Lower Saxony) (the Frisian areas are now Dutch and German-Lower Saxony) and found that many "Schienke" still live and are buried there.?
(After 500 years. . . Home at last!)?
?
My son's maternal haplogroup showed a streak of Atilla in it so he had a special test performed with his personal genome information which also contained a test for Ashkenazi markers. The result: 0.00% Ashkenazi.?
?
I can inquire of him where the test was performed.?
DNA testing is a new science without standardization yet is growing rapidly in expertise daily.?
?
It would behoove all not to quickly jump to conclusions on origin with a palmful of information possessed.?
?
Genetic typing using DNA is a new field very similar to computer software in the 1990's. It lacks standardization. Every company wants to "posture" first in line in the marketplace. We have "str's" and "snp's" used to define ethnicity.. We also have varying number systems for haplogroup comparison with different organizations.?
?
On May 2, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Gswilson19 at aol.com wrote:?
?
> I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on > themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they > found their ancestors to be from.?
>?
> Gail?
>?
?
?
. . . Otto?
? " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-?
? ________________________________?
? "The future. . . . always catches up."?
?



From ra_stein at telus.net  Sat May  2 16:15:35 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 17:15:35 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
In-Reply-To: <BAY140-W327EF4884D452BA97B6EE2BE6D0@phx.gbl>
References: <c61.47e724d1.372bb358@aol.com>
	<BAY140-W327EF4884D452BA97B6EE2BE6D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D992BFF60A744AC8BA94476914D2FF66@RichardPC>

Maureen and George,
Thank you for responding to my query regarding the name Poborski.  A variety 
of surnames was attributed to Gertrude in several Polish and German vital 
records of her husband and children.  One of the names was Poborski and I 
theorized that one of the others was a German equivalent.  However, none of 
them had the Steuer root or looked like Zollner.

Dick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
To: <spaghettitree at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski




Other German terms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r)



George




> From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400
> To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
> According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names,
> Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In
> German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle 
> High
> German, stiure stiuer.
>
> Maureen
>
>
> In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> ra_stein at telus.net writes:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname
> POBORSKI?
>
> I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as
> Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community,
> in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Dick Stein
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 




From lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca  Sat May  2 17:22:06 2009
From: lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca (Susie Lewis)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:22:06 +0000
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72,
	Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W403A718EA820DF9D4DC83DCB6B0@phx.gbl>


Has anyone on the list had the results of Haplo group I1a?
Genetic Testing can be done through the National Geographic Society Genom Project
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

Susie















 


From albertr7 at juno.com  Sat May  2 17:48:43 2009
From: albertr7 at juno.com (Albert L Ratzlaff)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 17:48:43 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA results
Message-ID: <20090502.174844.2744.0.albertr7@juno.com>

Hi,

Noticed the subject of DNA.  My Y Chromosome DNA result is haplogroup
R1b1 and I possess the Atlantic Modal Haplotype.  I'm wondering if there
are any with Pomeranian (Pommern) background, especially surnames
Retzlaff, Ratzlaff, Vratislav or something similar.

Albert

A. Ratzlaff albertr7 at juno.com
____________________________________________________________
Click now for prescreened plumbing contractors.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTRHI9DZp5Pvd7VVHE8MP7G3PZAMQCuM3RKmjBbNuzuo8m6iWqHCww/


From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Sat May  2 18:08:12 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 19:08:12 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72,
	Issue 4
References: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<BLU130-W403A718EA820DF9D4DC83DCB6B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0E73FF8083D440598B7B91E8B100328A@Marsh>

Susie:
    My results through Ancestry.com produced 1I which was formerly 1Ia

John Marsch
  ---------------------------------------


  Has anyone on the list had the results of Haplo group I1a?
  Genetic Testing can be done through the National Geographic Society Genom Project
  https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

  Susie















   

  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From albertmuth at aol.com  Sat May  2 18:28:13 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 21:28:13 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
In-Reply-To: <D992BFF60A744AC8BA94476914D2FF66@RichardPC>
References: <c61.47e724d1.372bb358@aol.com><BAY140-W327EF4884D452BA97B6EE2BE6D0@phx.gbl>
	<D992BFF60A744AC8BA94476914D2FF66@RichardPC>
Message-ID: <8CB99A58F5E9315-10CC-38DB@webmail-mh13.sysops.aol.com>

This is pretty funny, that George suggests that Poborski could be Z?llner. Steuereinnehmer,
Steuerbeamte--surnames all having to do with being a "tax-taker", for those of you

who do not know German yet (I am an optimist).




In Fred Hoffman's "Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings", the surname

Poborski is a derivative of a verb in Polish podebrac'?meaning "to take, remove, pilfer"




In other words, not a generic term for "taking", which is a basic, essential

verb in any language. ?Rather, there is an additional connotation, perhaps a

negative one (!), referring to the man to whom one pays taxes.




I love it.




al



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
To: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>; spaghettitree at aol.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski








Maureen and George,
Thank you for responding to my query regarding the name Poborski.  A variety 
of surnames was attributed to Gertrude in several Polish and German vital 
records of her husband and children.  One of the names was Poborski and I 
theorized that one of the others was a German equivalent.  However, none of 
them had the Steuer root or looked like Zollner.

Dick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
To: <spaghettitree at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski




Other German t
erms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r)



George




> From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400
> To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
> According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names,
> Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In
> German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle 
> High
> German, stiure stiuer.
>
> Maureen
>
>
> In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> ra_stein at telus.net writes:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname
> POBORSKI?
>
> I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as
> Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community,
> in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Dick Stein
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_____
__________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



 






From colnels at telus.net  Sat May  2 18:46:17 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:46:17 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
In-Reply-To: <8CB99A58F5E9315-10CC-38DB@webmail-mh13.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c61.47e724d1.372bb358@aol.com><BAY140-W327EF4884D452BA97B6EE2BE6D0@phx.gbl>	<D992BFF60A744AC8BA94476914D2FF66@RichardPC>
	<8CB99A58F5E9315-10CC-38DB@webmail-mh13.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000501c9cb90$f3c34680$db49d380$@net>

I have heard the name Podborski, could there be relationship?
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
albertmuth at aol.com
Sent: May-02-09 7:28 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski


This is pretty funny, that George suggests that Poborski could be Z?llner.
Steuereinnehmer, Steuerbeamte--surnames all having to do with being a
"tax-taker", for those of you

who do not know German yet (I am an optimist).




In Fred Hoffman's "Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings", the surname

Poborski is a derivative of a verb in Polish podebrac'?meaning "to take,
remove, pilfer"




In other words, not a generic term for "taking", which is a basic, essential

verb in any language. ?Rather, there is an additional connotation, perhaps a

negative one (!), referring to the man to whom one pays taxes.




I love it.




al



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
To: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>; spaghettitree at aol.com;
ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski








Maureen and George,
Thank you for responding to my query regarding the name Poborski.  A variety
of surnames was attributed to Gertrude in several Polish and German vital
records of her husband and children.  One of the names was Poborski and I
theorized that one of the others was a German equivalent.  However, none of
them had the Steuer root or looked like Zollner.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
To: <spaghettitree at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski




Other German t
erms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r)



George




> From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400
> To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
> According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names,
> Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In
> German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle 
> High
> German, stiure stiuer.
>
> Maureen
>
>
> In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> ra_stein at telus.net writes:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname
> POBORSKI?
>
> I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as
> Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community,
> in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Dick Stein
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_____
__________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



 





_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
No virus found in this incoming message.
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14:23:00




From roseingram at shaw.ca  Sat May  2 19:50:09 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:50:09 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
	<8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <005701c9cb99$dfb166f0$6601a8c0@duocore>


My mtDNA  Haplogroup is T*.  This was a low resolution test.

Quote from my report
"The mitochondrial haplogroup T is best characterized as a European lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, the major sub-lineages of haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture in Europe. Today, we find haplogroup T* widely distributed in Europe."

I may talk one of my brothers into being tested for  Y-DNA.

Rose Ingram

  From: gswilson19 at aol.com 
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 12:40 PM
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done


  I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to be from.

  Gail


From sofasurferlinux at charter.net  Sat May  2 19:49:42 2009
From: sofasurferlinux at charter.net (daryl)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 22:49:42 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking assistance for first Polish record
 search - Helwig from Wolschebuden, Lipno vicinity
Message-ID: <49FD0646.5000009@charter.net>

I have quite a bit of information on my grandfather (Adolph Helwig) and 
his siblings who came to U.S. one-by-one around the turn of the century. 
Info includes ship lists and censuses.

Now I need to aquire info from their homeland Russia-Poland. Residences 
include Lipno, Nieszawa, Bobrowniki, Wolschebuden, Rybit, Plock.

The oldest sibling, Augusta, was born in 1875. I have no verified 
birthplace. Her father, Edward Helwig is said to have been born under 
the rule of Czar Nicholas on the border of Russia in a town I deciphered 
as Wolschebuden (Makowiska). Edward was said to be still alive in Rybit, 
Plock in 1909. His wife was Minnie Klinger.

Since "Wolschebuden" is an assumption based on crummy family records I 
wonder if you can tell
me if Wolschebuden was actually on the Russian border at the time of 
Czar Nicholus rule?

My grandfather, Adolph was born in Lipno, Aug 2, 19887.

I'll be going to the Family History Center soon to try to look up some 
records. I assume that the best bet would be something in Lipno. And 
birth and marrage records from Wolschebuden and death records from Rybit.

I am a beginner and so far have never read a record from a foreign land.
Can anyone recommend specific records to look for?
Also, I looked at a couple of pages of records on microfilm, from Lipno 
and was mortified at the prospect of trying to understand any of it. Can 
you recommend any sites that would be helpful in deciphering the records?

Does anyone have information on the above mentioned people?

Thank you very much for whatever help you can offer.

Daryl Helwig


From marmel at pctcnet.net  Sat May  2 20:37:23 2009
From: marmel at pctcnet.net (Linda Windmoeller)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 22:37:23 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
Message-ID: <42BC1B3EF01E415E9A181BA3CED39FC1@VistaPC>

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA = maternal line)

I am Haplogroup J, subgroup J2 as per DNA test of the Genographic Project, which checks ancient ancestral lineage genetic mutation.  Someday I hope to afford more definitive testing.  And I'd like to have the male (Y chromosone) done on my brother for paternal ancient ancestry.

L1, L2 (Africa)  150,000 to 100,000 yrs ago
L3 (out of Africa) 80,000 yrs ago
N (Lebannon) 50,000 yrs ago,
R (across Turkey, north across Caucasus Mountains) 50,000 yrs ago
J (common to Eastern & Northern Europe) 40,000 yrs ago
J2 (migrated with fishing and agriculture opportunities)

My maternal lineage surnames: Hedtke (1899-1972), Neumann (1864-1939), Schulz (1832- abt1890), Krueger (1805-1865) - area of Grabowo and Nekla, Czerniejewo near Gniezno, Wielkopolski, Posen/Poland

other surnames:  
Feustel - Greiz, eastern Germany
Gnoss, Hackbarth, Hass, Haase, Koglin, Kopitzke, Loeper, Rasch, Schmalowski, Voss - all Posen, Pommern - current day Poland
Liebenau, Steinbach - area of Polichno, Naklo, Wirsitz, Kujawsko-Pomorskie, Posen and also Heimtal Parish, Kreis Zhitomar, Volhynia, South Russia, Ukraine

Linda in WI

From lmpauling at utech.net  Sat May  2 20:51:13 2009
From: lmpauling at utech.net (Linda Marks Pauling)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 20:51:13 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Helwig from Wolschebuden, Lipno vicinity
References: <49FD0646.5000009@charter.net>
Message-ID: <8E85CBFAADA945DE9BB6D3DF38FC3102@LINDASTOY>

Daryl, I am currently working with a film of confirmations from the Lipno 
parish that cover 1876-1906. It is very likely that both Augusta and Adolph 
will be on this film.
It is "Lipno Par. Ewang.-Augsb. Bierzowanie 1876-1906 Confirmations 
#2,150,611
Since you are visiting the FHL, you may want to order this film and view it 
yourself.
It is an easy one to begin with because it is in tabular format with the 
confirmands name in one column, followed by the village, names of parents 
including maiden name of mother, and village and date of birth.
Meanwhile, when I go to the FHL next week, I will look to see if they are on 
this film.

You will also want to view the films for births, marriages, and deaths in 
the Lipno parish. They are filmed from 1808-1865 and yes, they are in 
Polish.
The numbers are:
716,606    1808-1823 assorted
714,854    1824-1830
1831-1839    714,855
1840-1844    714,856
1845-1847    714,857
1848-1851    714,858
1852-1855    714,859
1856-1858    714,860
1859-1862    714,861
1863-1865    714,862

I have the indices for 1808-1839, but I think you will want to begin with 
the most recent to find your greatgrandfather. I did check 1831-1839 and see 
there births for:
Helmig (Helwig?) Karolina 1831; Jan 1832, and Karol, 1834.

I also looked at 719,562 which is for Wola Lipno 1864 and there is a birth 
record in 1864 for Hellwig, Fryderyk Edward #197. He would not be old enough 
though to have a child in 1875.

You are beginning on a great adventure and with the helps on www.sggee.org 
you will soon be extracting at least the pertinent information from these 
records!

Linda Pauling


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "daryl" <sofasurferlinux at charter.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking assistance for first Polish record 
search - Helwig from Wolschebuden, Lipno vicinity


>I have quite a bit of information on my grandfather (Adolph Helwig) and
> his siblings who came to U.S. one-by-one around the turn of the century.
> Info includes ship lists and censuses.
>
> Now I need to aquire info from their homeland Russia-Poland. Residences
> include Lipno, Nieszawa, Bobrowniki, Wolschebuden, Rybit, Plock.
>
> The oldest sibling, Augusta, was born in 1875. I have no verified
> birthplace. Her father, Edward Helwig is said to have been born under
> the rule of Czar Nicholas on the border of Russia in a town I deciphered
> as Wolschebuden (Makowiska). Edward was said to be still alive in Rybit,
> Plock in 1909. His wife was Minnie Klinger.
>
> Since "Wolschebuden" is an assumption based on crummy family records I
> wonder if you can tell
> me if Wolschebuden was actually on the Russian border at the time of
> Czar Nicholus rule?
>
> My grandfather, Adolph was born in Lipno, Aug 2, 19887.
>
> I'll be going to the Family History Center soon to try to look up some
> records. I assume that the best bet would be something in Lipno. And
> birth and marrage records from Wolschebuden and death records from Rybit.
>
> I am a beginner and so far have never read a record from a foreign land.
> Can anyone recommend specific records to look for?
> Also, I looked at a couple of pages of records on microfilm, from Lipno
> and was mortified at the prospect of trying to understand any of it. Can
> you recommend any sites that would be helpful in deciphering the records?
>
> Does anyone have information on the above mentioned people?
>
> Thank you very much for whatever help you can offer.
>
> Daryl Helwig
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 




From heraldik at gmx.net  Sun May  3 04:20:42 2009
From: heraldik at gmx.net (Dieter Beutel)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:20:42 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
Message-ID: <20090503112042.94640@gmx.net>

Has anyone on the list had the results of Haplo group R1A?
Y-DNA line E5985

Has anyone on the list had the results of Haplo group H
MT-DNA line E5985

Genetic Testing can be done through the iGENEA

regards
Dieter
-- 
Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01


From nks883 at aol.com  Sun May  3 06:55:31 2009
From: nks883 at aol.com (nks883@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 09:55:31 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Results
Message-ID: <8CB9A0DF56C91B2-130C-348C@WEBMAIL-MY23.sysops.aol.com>

My mtDNA results put me in Haplogroup U4 (16129A) (16356C) (16519C).? Maternal surnames of Rauch and Lau from Wola Mlocka, Poland and possibly Volhynia.? Any potential matches were all low resolution.

DNA testing on my brother (for our paternal line) resulted in Haplogroup R1b1b2 - earliest known ancestor (surname Erdman) from the Rypin area of Poland dating back to late 1700's.? There were many 12 Marker matches, some with higher resolution.? One in particular (surname Radtke) came from an area near Rypin and the location of that Radtke ancestor was listed as Vandsburg/Westpreussen - born 1785. ?My Erdman ancestors also have been noted as coming from Westpreussen.

The above tests were done through National Geographic's "Genographic Project" and were very basic.? Our family goal is to have additional and more precise testing done.

Sincerely,
Nadine Erdman Saiki


From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Sun May  3 06:59:06 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 07:59:06 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking assistance for first Polish
 record search - Helwig from Wolschebuden, Lipno vicinity
In-Reply-To: <49FD0646.5000009@charter.net>
References: <49FD0646.5000009@charter.net>
Message-ID: <49FDA32A.3070303@shaw.ca>

Daryl,

Wolschebuden is indeed the German name for Makowiska.  It is located 
about 12 km NW of Lipno.  The border with Prussia was another 20 km or 
so to the NW along the same road.

You can find translation aids for both post 1867 Russian Cyrillic 
records and pre 1867 Polish records on our Translation Helps page under 
the Research tab of the website menu.  Once you understand the 
relatively standardized format of the Napoleonic paragraph records, you 
will catch on fairly quickly.  Bad handwriting will give you more 
problems than the language barrier.

I assume by Rybit you are referring to what we have in our database as 
Rybitwy.  It is right on the Wisla (Vistula) River, some 17 km WSW of 
Lipno.  Bobrowniki is just a little further south on the same side of 
the river.  Nieszawa is a larger town and parish centre on the other 
side of the Wisla.  If any of your records are there, you will have more 
problems than with Lipno as some are missing. 

A complete list of available microfilmed records for Lipno and Nieszawa 
can be found at http://sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInRusPoland.html


Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



daryl wrote:
> I have quite a bit of information on my grandfather (Adolph Helwig) and 
> his siblings who came to U.S. one-by-one around the turn of the century. 
> Info includes ship lists and censuses.
>
> Now I need to aquire info from their homeland Russia-Poland. Residences 
> include Lipno, Nieszawa, Bobrowniki, Wolschebuden, Rybit, Plock.
>
> The oldest sibling, Augusta, was born in 1875. I have no verified 
> birthplace. Her father, Edward Helwig is said to have been born under 
> the rule of Czar Nicholas on the border of Russia in a town I deciphered 
> as Wolschebuden (Makowiska). Edward was said to be still alive in Rybit, 
> Plock in 1909. His wife was Minnie Klinger.
>
> Since "Wolschebuden" is an assumption based on crummy family records I 
> wonder if you can tell
> me if Wolschebuden was actually on the Russian border at the time of 
> Czar Nicholus rule?
>
> My grandfather, Adolph was born in Lipno, Aug 2, 19887.
>
> I'll be going to the Family History Center soon to try to look up some 
> records. I assume that the best bet would be something in Lipno. And 
> birth and marrage records from Wolschebuden and death records from Rybit.
>
> I am a beginner and so far have never read a record from a foreign land.
> Can anyone recommend specific records to look for?
> Also, I looked at a couple of pages of records on microfilm, from Lipno 
> and was mortified at the prospect of trying to understand any of it. Can 
> you recommend any sites that would be helpful in deciphering the records?
>
> Does anyone have information on the above mentioned people?
>
> Thank you very much for whatever help you can offer.
>
> Daryl Helwig
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From lbohn at shaw.ca  Sun May  3 07:09:54 2009
From: lbohn at shaw.ca (Lorne Bohn)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 07:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
References: <54896.1241292615@connpoint.net>
	<8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CB9982E1D61115-13D4-22F1@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com>
	<8CB9986F031AEFF-748-2BD9@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com>
Message-ID: <B42E22455E884B22A1AF0AD58E24F4DB@yourrvlnhr6v8d>

There are a number of groups/organizations which offer this testing.  I 
believe the original group was the National Geographic Society.  They have 
an excellent explanation of how to use it and what it means at: 
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html  In most 
cases testing is offered for either the paternal or the maternal side of the 
family.  The beginning kits look for common markers, usually 12.  With these 
kits the only results which are useful are those which come back 12 for 12. 
Other kits are offered which look for more markers and of course are more 
expensive.

In my experience, these beginning kits ( 12/12 ) are still quite useful in 
general terms.  It is very interesting to look at general migration patterns 
of large groups of people from an anthropological perspective.  As people 
interested in genealogy, we are mainly interested in looking for specific 
names which we can link to which is of course in more recent history. 
Remember that DNA testing is a tool just like any of the other things we use 
in our research which helps to give us a bigger picture in our research. 
Don't be disappointed if you don't turn up a perfect DNA match with someone 
with the same name as your own or even if you can't find common ancestral 
links with people who have the same number of DNA matches as you have.

This a link to the PolanGenWeb site which deals with DNA groups specific to 
the area we are interested in.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polwgw/polandgen.html

Another interesting site is the German DNA project which may also be of 
interest to you:
http://www.german-dna.net/

I hope this helps.

Best regrads to the forum,

Lorne Bohn
(Canada)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gswilson19 at aol.com>
To: <albertmuth at aol.com>
Cc: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing 
done


> Al,
>
> ?? My Haplo group comes back the same as yours R1a or R1a1 also.? It 
> suprised me in that I always thought of my ancestors as ethnically 
> German.? But Germans seems to be a small part of the R1a group.?
>
> Gail
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: albertmuth at aol.com
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 2:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing 
> done
>
>
>
> I imagine we will find a variety of haplogroups amongst SGGEE members,?
>
> since the places of origin are widespread.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My haplogroup is R1a or perhaps R1a1. I did not have the most in depth
>
>
>
> test run, so my results came back with this question.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> R1a1 is found in up to 50% of Ashkenazi Jews (those of Eastern Europe
>
>
>
> including Poland and the Ukraine); and it rather surprised me that
>
>
>
> my closest matches are, in fact, Jewish. ?The homeland of the Ashkenazi?
>
>
>
> Jews was not Eastern Europe; in medieval times, they lived in the
>
>
>
> Rhineland area of Germany.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My family tradition is that my surname Muth (with a standard German
>
>
>
> meaning of 'courage') was originally Demuth (meaning 'humility').
>
>
>
> The region of origin was Alsace-Lorraine (same general area as?
>
>
>
> Rhineland), and the person who made?the migration happens to?
>
>
>
> be the person with whom I lose my paper?trail as I trace the family?
>
>
>
> backward. ?Daniel Muth showed up in?Stypin, Poland and witnesses?
>
>
>
> a baptism in the Catholic parish of?Modzerowo in 1794. ?His son?
>
>
>
> Samuel is baptized there in 1796,?and marries in the parish of Babiak?
>
>
>
> in 1815.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have hypothesized that the Demuth name became Muth upon
>
>
>
> arrival in Poland, where the prefix De- is used in front of a surname
>
>
>
> to show a noble origin (as in French). ?It can also be used in the
>
>
>
> records to translate German VON.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Trust me, the people named in my closest matches are Jewish.
>
>
>
> The test does not come back clues that allow you, independently,
>
>
>
> to trace their ancestry. ?My closest match is a 21 year old from
>
>
>
> a highly prominent Jewish family in San Diego, with strong ties
>
>
>
> to Israel on his maternal side. His middle name is an invented
>
>
>
> family surname--no one else in the world has it but a small group
>
>
>
> of people who descend from one Russian Jew in New York City.
>
>
>
> And it is not just coincidence of names; I pieced together his
>
>
>
> family tree just by googling, using CA birth and marriage records
>
>
>
> at ancestry.com, and finding his full name
> in a book dedication,
>
>
>
> the book being the autobiography of a woman American novelist
>
>
>
> whose name I am sure everyone knows (her books are in
>
>
>
> almost every supermarket that I have ever shopped at in a?
>
>
>
> cash register display; this is on his MOTHER's side of the
>
>
>
> family). ?My supposed connection?with him is back about?
>
>
>
> 13 generations, or 325 years ago.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The next step for me, is to do a more in-depth test using more
>
>
>
> markers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Al Muth
>
> Livonia, Michigan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: gswilson19 at aol.com
>
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>
> Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 3:40 pm
>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing done
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm curious whether anyone20on this list has had DNA testing done on 
> themselves
> or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their 
> ancestors to
> be from.
>
> Gail
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 



From mackzie at earthlink.net  Sun May  3 07:38:28 2009
From: mackzie at earthlink.net (Beth Burke)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 09:38:28 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Testing
Message-ID: <001b01c9cbfc$d44f1740$7ced45c0$@net>

This thread about DNA testing has been quite interesting.  I am considering
it..

 

Given that I have no brothers, would I also be wise to test my son?

 

Thanks for the feedback..

 

Beth



From mag_ton at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 07:49:37 2009
From: mag_ton at yahoo.com (mag_ton)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 07:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kaminski /Steinke / Stein
Message-ID: <154906.57742.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


??? I am related to Anna Catherine Steinke/Stein who was married to? Marcin Ziemer of Mielno ,? Wloclawek , Byd.,Poland , probably around 1795 . He died 1819 in Mielno; I do not know when she died.? The name is Steinke or Stein in? various record of her children . Does that mean I should also? be looking for her also as Anna Catherine KAMINSKI in records as well ?? What does the Polish name KAMINSKI mean ?? 

Magda


Message: 8
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:46:17 -0600
From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
To: <albertmuth at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <000501c9cb90$f3c34680$db49d380$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="iso-8859-1"

I have heard the name Podborski, could there be relationship?
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
albertmuth at aol.com
Sent: May-02-09 7:28 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski


This is pretty funny, that George suggests that Poborski could be Z?llner.
Steuereinnehmer, Steuerbeamte--surnames all having to do with being a
"tax-taker", for those of you

who do not know German yet (I am an optimist).




In Fred Hoffman's "Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings", the surname

Poborski is a derivative of a verb in Polish podebrac'?meaning "to take,
remove, pilfer"




In other words, not a generic term for "taking", which is a basic, essential

verb in any language. ?Rather, there is an additional connotation, perhaps a

negative one (!), referring to the man to whom one pays taxes.




I love it.




al



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
To: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>; spaghettitree at aol.com;
ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski








Maureen and George,
Thank you for responding to my query regarding the name Poborski.? A variety
of surnames was attributed to Gertrude in several Polish and German vital
records of her husband and children.? One of the names was Poborski and I
theorized that one of the others was a German equivalent.? However, none of
them had the Steuer root or looked like Zollner.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
To: <spaghettitree at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski




Other German t
erms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r)



George




> From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400
> To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
> According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names,
> Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In
> German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle 
> High
> German, stiure stiuer.
>
> Maureen
>
>
> In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> ra_stein at telus.net writes:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname
> POBORSKI?
>
> I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as
> Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community,
> in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Dick Stein
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_____
__________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 






 








l


End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 5
**************************************************



      

From perry1121 at aol.com  Sun May  3 08:05:59 2009
From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 10:05:59 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Testing
In-Reply-To: <001b01c9cbfc$d44f1740$7ced45c0$@net>
References: <001b01c9cbfc$d44f1740$7ced45c0$@net>
Message-ID: <49FDB2D7.2040408@aol.com>

Beth,
Testing your son would provide you with your husband's y-dna haplogroup, 
not your father's. Since you don't have brothers, you'd have to ask an 
uncle (brother to your father) or an uncle's son (first cousin who has 
the same surname as your father). You need to test a male who carries 
the same surname as your maiden name. If you don't know of anyone, 
you'll have to intensify your paper trail search until you find some 
male cousins with that surname. Even if they are second or third 
cousins, their y-dna will still be quite close to the results you'd get 
if you had a brother for the purposes of tracing genealogical history.

Regards,
Sigrid Pohl Perry

Beth Burke wrote:
> This thread about DNA testing has been quite interesting.  I am considering
> it..
>
>  
>
> Given that I have no brothers, would I also be wise to test my son?
>
>  
>
> Thanks for the feedback..
>
>  
>
> Beth
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   



From otto at schienke.com  Sun May  3 08:10:21 2009
From: otto at schienke.com (Otto)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:10:21 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Testing
In-Reply-To: <001b01c9cbfc$d44f1740$7ced45c0$@net>
References: <001b01c9cbfc$d44f1740$7ced45c0$@net>
Message-ID: <124A0E40-5A8B-44A5-BB69-1800904D47D6@schienke.com>

Testing your son would only show the Y chromosome genetic information  
of the father of that son and not your paternal lineage.

Do you have any male cousins from your same paternal line?
Did your father have brothers?  This "almost" a certain test.

On May 3, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Beth Burke wrote:

> This thread about DNA testing has been quite interesting.  I am  
> considering
> it..
> Given that I have no brothers, would I also be wise to test my son?
> Thanks for the feedback..
> Beth



. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



From gary at warnerengineering.com  Sun May  3 08:38:18 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 08:38:18 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kaminski /Steinke / Stein
In-Reply-To: <154906.57742.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <154906.57742.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49FDBA6A.3080902@warnerengineering.com>

Magda,

As you may know, we have this couple in the SGGEE Master Pedigree 
database.   We would be pleased if you would add your data to that 
database to help fill in areas that we do not have.

The surname Kaminski is from the Polish word Kamien, which is a stone.   
Stein is the German word for stone.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

mag_ton wrote:
>     I am related to Anna Catherine Steinke/Stein who was married to  Marcin Ziemer of Mielno ,  Wloclawek , Byd.,Poland , probably around 1795 . He died 1819 in Mielno; I do not know when she died.  The name is Steinke or Stein in  various record of her children . Does that mean I should also  be looking for her also as Anna Catherine KAMINSKI in records as well ?? What does the Polish name KAMINSKI mean ?  
>
> Magda
>
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:46:17 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
> To: <albertmuth at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000501c9cb90$f3c34680$db49d380$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have heard the name Podborski, could there be relationship?
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> albertmuth at aol.com
> Sent: May-02-09 7:28 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
>
> This is pretty funny, that George suggests that Poborski could be Z?llner.
> Steuereinnehmer, Steuerbeamte--surnames all having to do with being a
> "tax-taker", for those of you
>
> who do not know German yet (I am an optimist).
>
>
>
>
> In Fred Hoffman's "Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings", the surname
>
> Poborski is a derivative of a verb in Polish podebrac'?meaning "to take,
> remove, pilfer"
>
>
>
>
> In other words, not a generic term for "taking", which is a basic, essential
>
> verb in any language. ?Rather, there is an additional connotation, perhaps a
>
> negative one (!), referring to the man to whom one pays taxes.
>
>
>
>
> I love it.
>
>
>
>
> al
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
> To: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>; spaghettitree at aol.com;
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 7:15 pm
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maureen and George,
> Thank you for responding to my query regarding the name Poborski.  A variety
> of surnames was attributed to Gertrude in several Polish and German vital
> records of her husband and children.  One of the names was Poborski and I
> theorized that one of the others was a German equivalent.  However, none of
> them had the Steuer root or looked like Zollner.
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
> To: <spaghettitree at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
>
>
>
> Other German t
> erms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r)
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>   
>> From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400
>> To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>>
>> According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names,
>> Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In
>> German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle 
>> High
>> German, stiure stiuer.
>>
>> Maureen
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> ra_stein at telus.net writes:
>>
>> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname
>> POBORSKI?
>>
>> I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as
>> Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community,
>> in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Dick Stein
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>
>>
>> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
>> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
>> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>     
>
> _____
> __________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> l
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 5
> **************************************************
>
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From gswilson19 at aol.com  Sun May  3 09:25:33 2009
From: gswilson19 at aol.com (gswilson19@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 12:25:33 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
In-Reply-To: <20090503112042.94640@gmx.net>
References: <20090503112042.94640@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <8CB9A22EB16F9FC-F54-307C@webmail-dx21.sysops.aol.com>

Dieter,

???? I have R1a1 on both my father's side and my mother's paternal side.? I am new to this.? What does your "Y-DNA line E5985" mean?? 

Gail


-----Original Message-----
From: Dieter Beutel <heraldik at gmx.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sun, 3 May 2009 4:20 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA



Has anyone on the list had the results of Haplo group R1A?
-DNA line E5985
Has anyone on the list had the results of Haplo group H
T-DNA line E5985
Genetic Testing can be done through the iGENEA
regards
ieter
- 
sssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: 
ttp://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01
_______________________________________________
er-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
ociety for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
ailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From siegfried at familie-friedrich.de  Sun May  3 10:02:08 2009
From: siegfried at familie-friedrich.de (Siegfried Friedrich)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 19:02:08 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FRIEDRICH aus Boryszewo/Tiefenbach,
	Plock (UpstreamVistula)
Message-ID: <49FDCE10.2030104@familie-friedrich.de>

Hallo,

I search for more informations to my ancestors *FRIEDRICH*. A few times 
ago I found an interesting chronicle of the school and the community 
Nowe Boryszewo /Tiefenbach (Plock) by Franz Lackner.

www.upstreamvistula.org/Documents/NoweBoryszewo.htm

Here you can read, that in 1825 a few settlers from Germany buyed land 
over there.

One of them was called FRIEDRICH.

The postman Hermann FRIEDRICH on page 33 is my still living uncle (and 
also the 15 years old boy on page 50). The man on page 35 with the 
number 20 was my grandfather Ludwig FRIEDRICH. He was born in 1886.

August FRIEDRICH (no. 18) was his brother, Ferdinand LINK (no. 9) was 
there brother-in-law. Two daughters of the family KULBARSCH (I think n. 
43) are godmothers to my brother Wolfgang.

The coachman (page 74) was August FRIEDRICH.

In a published article "Aus der Geschichte der Niedrungsd?rfer der 
Gemeinde Gombin" you read something about a village Deutsch-Troschin.

The wife of my grandfather Ludwig FRIEDRICH was born there in 1889. 
She's called Marta FRIEDRICH (born: FELSCHER). This is the Mrs. 
FRIEDRICH from page 54 in the chronicle of Tiefenbach where you can 
read: "Frau Friedrich, deren Mann und s?mtliche 3 S?hne im Felde 
stehen". The sons were my uncles Albert and Hermann and my father Ewald 
FRIEDRICH.

I think, further brothers and sisters to Ludwig and August FRIEDRICH 
were Adolf, Eduard, Gustav, Julius and her married sister ? LINK.

Who can give me further informations to my ancestors?

Kind regards
Siegfried (FRIEDRICH)



From albertmuth at aol.com  Sun May  3 10:11:14 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:11:14 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kaminski /Steinke / Stein
In-Reply-To: <49FDBA6A.3080902@warnerengineering.com>
References: <154906.57742.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49FDBA6A.3080902@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <8CB9A294CB4BAD9-ED0-250D@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com>

To this I will add that while, yes we can see that stone = stone (Kaminski = Stein),
keep in mind that the Polish surname may only translate a part of the

German surname. ?Kaminski is also commonly used in records

for ethnic German individuals whose names are Steinke, Doberstein,

and Koberstein. ?How do you know which one it is? ?You don't,

at least until you can see the same family group later on, using

the German version of the surname.




Polish g?ra = German Berg (English 'mountain'). ?This has been

used for Falkenberg.




When I am transcribing records, I often keep a German dictionary and

a book on Polish surnames at hand. ?Eventually, you do start?

remembering certain equivalences. ?Like when learning a foreign

language, by the time you have looked up a word for the umpteenth

time, you tend to remember it. (and scold yourself?for being lazy?

and alzheimerish)




Al Muth


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
To: mag_ton <mag_ton at yahoo.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:38 am
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kaminski /Steinke / Stein








Magda,

As you may know, we have this couple in the SGGEE Master Pedigree 
database.   We would be pleased if you would add your data to that 
database to help fill in areas that we do not have.

The surname Kaminski is from the Polish word Kamien, which is a stone.   
Stein is the German word for stone.

Ga
ry Warner
SGGEE

mag_ton wrote:
>     I am related to Anna Catherine Steinke/Stein who was married to  Marcin 
Ziemer of Mielno ,  Wloclawek , Byd.,Poland , probably around 1795 . He died 
1819 in Mielno; I do not know when she died.  The name is Steinke or Stein in  
various record of her children . Does that mean I should also  be looking for 
her also as Anna Catherine KAMINSKI in records as well ?? What does the Polish 
name KAMINSKI mean ?  
>
> Magda
>
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:46:17 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
> To: <albertmuth at aol.com>, <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <000501c9cb90$f3c34680$db49d380$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have heard the name Podborski, could there be relationship?
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
> albertmuth at aol.com
> Sent: May-02-09 7:28 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
>
> This is pretty funny, that George suggests that Poborski could be Z?llner.
> Steuereinnehmer, Steuerbeamte--surnames all having to do with being a
> "tax-taker", for those of you
>
> who do not know German yet (I am an optimist).
>
>
>
>
> In Fred Hoffman's "Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings", the surname
>
> Poborski is a derivative of a verb in Polish podebrac'?m
eaning "to take,
> remove, pilfer"
>
>
>
>
> In other words, not a generic term for "taking", which is a basic, essential
>
> verb in any language. ?Rather, there is an additional connotation, perhaps a
>
> negative one (!), referring to the man to whom one pays taxes.
>
>
>
>
> I love it.
>
>
>
>
> al
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
> To: George Shoning <shoning at q.com>; spaghettitree at aol.com;
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 7:15 pm
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maureen and George,
> Thank you for responding to my query regarding the name Poborski.  A variety
> of surnames was attributed to Gertrude in several Polish and German vital
> records of her husband and children.  One of the names was Poborski and I
> theorized that one of the others was a German equivalent.  However, none of
> them had the Steuer root or looked like Zollner.
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Shoning" <shoning at q.com>
> To: <spaghettitree at aol.com>; <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>
>
>
>
> Other German t
> erms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r)
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>   
>> From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
>> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400
>> To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski
>>
>> Ac
cording to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names,
>> Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In
>> German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle 
>> High
>> German, stiure stiuer.
>>
>> Maureen
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> ra_stein at telus.net writes:
>>
>> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname
>> POBORSKI?
>>
>> I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as
>> Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community,
>> in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Dick Stein
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>
>>
>> **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
>> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
>> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>     
>
> _____
> __________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 
>
>0A>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> l
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 5
> **************************************************
>
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



 






From lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca  Sun May  3 10:18:17 2009
From: lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca (Susie Lewis)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:18:17 +0000
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Friedrich
In-Reply-To: <mailman.49.1241370238.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.49.1241370238.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W26F8F06FC88322CECD866BCB6B0@phx.gbl>




 




Hallo Siegfried
GruBe aus Kanada.  My cousins father is a Friedrich.  We could benefit in comparing some data.
Please contact me off list:
lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca
Sue


 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 19:02:08 +0200
> From: Siegfried Friedrich <siegfried at familie-friedrich.de>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FRIEDRICH aus Boryszewo/Tiefenbach,
> 	Plock (UpstreamVistula)
> To: Ger-Pol-Mailliste <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <49FDCE10.2030104 at familie-friedrich.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> I search for more informations to my ancestors *FRIEDRICH*. A few times 
> ago I found an interesting chronicle of the school and the community 
> Nowe Boryszewo /Tiefenbach (Plock) by Franz Lackner.
> 
> www.upstreamvistula.org/Documents/NoweBoryszewo.htm
> 
> Here you can read, that in 1825 a few settlers from Germany buyed land 
> over there.
> 
> One of them was called FRIEDRICH.
> 
> The postman Hermann FRIEDRICH on page 33 is my still living uncle (and 
> also the 15 years old boy on page 50). The man on page 35 with the 
> number 20 was my grandfather Ludwig FRIEDRICH. He was born in 1886.
> 
> August FRIEDRICH (no. 18) was his brother, Ferdinand LINK (no. 9) was 
> there brother-in-law. Two daughters of the family KULBARSCH (I think n. 
> 43) are godmothers to my brother Wolfgang.
> 
> The coachman (page 74) was August FRIEDRICH.
> 
> In a published article "Aus der Geschichte der Niedrungsd?rfer der 
> Gemeinde Gombin" you read something about a village Deutsch-Troschin.
> 
> The wife of my grandfather Ludwig FRIEDRICH was born there in 1889. 
> She's called Marta FRIEDRICH (born: FELSCHER). This is the Mrs. 
> FRIEDRICH from page 54 in the chronicle of Tiefenbach where you can 
> read: "Frau Friedrich, deren Mann und s?mtliche 3 S?hne im Felde 
> stehen". The sons were my uncles Albert and Hermann and my father Ewald 
> FRIEDRICH.
> 
> I think, further brothers and sisters to Ludwig and August FRIEDRICH 
> were Adolf, Eduard, Gustav, Julius and her married sister ? LINK.
> 
> Who can give me further informations to my ancestors?
> 
> Kind regards
> Siegfried (FRIEDRICH)
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
> 
> 
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 7
> **************************************************


From forsoftsong at yahoo.com  Sun May  3 11:28:40 2009
From: forsoftsong at yahoo.com (Joan)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:28:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.46.1241359678.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <407070.99301.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I had my maternal DNA tested with the Sorenson project.  My mother's mother was pure Polish, so my maternal results are quite different than most of you. 
   
  However, while some Poles are the same haplogroup as I am, it is not the typical Polish MtDNA.   I am U5. The oldest haplogroup in Europe, and most common in Finland among the Sami Reindeer people. In other words, just as we say in America, Native Americans, my maternal DNA is Native European. It is considered to be the first human MtDNA into Europe. Any older and it would be Neanderthal! That was a real surprise! 
   
  Since I am an only child, and my deceased father was an only child, I have no way to get my own paternal DNA done.  (Especially since I believe that my father's Dad was born to a different father than the other children.  I've even searched for his baby hair that I thought I had at one time.  
   
  So, to find out more about my ethnic Germans which I suspect may also have some Frisian or Dutch roots, I plan to contact a long-lost male cousin.  My Mom had a Polish mother, but an ethnic German father.  My Mom's brother is dead, but his sons are alive. That is who I need to contact and find out if one of them are interested in taking the paternal DNA test.  
   
  I may also ask a female second cousin on my Dad's mother's side (also an ethnic German) to take the MtDNA test.  Then I will know something about the maternal and paternal side of my ethnic Germans.   
   
  I am enjoying everyone's results.  I see someone has U4 in their results.  My family comes from near Rypin, as well.  And when I find out more about myself, I'll update.   
   
  Joan 
   
  

"I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their ancestors to be from.

Gail"


"My mtDNA results put me in Haplogroup U4 (16129A) (16356C) (16519C).? Maternal surnames of Rauch and Lau from Wola Mlocka, Poland and possibly Volhynia.? Any potential matches were all low resolution.

DNA testing on my brother (for our paternal line) resulted in Haplogroup R1b1b2 - earliest known ancestor (surname Erdman) from the Rypin area of Poland dating back to late 1700's.? There were many 12 Marker matches, some with higher resolution.? One in particular (surname Radtke) came from an area near Rypin and the location of that Radtke ancestor was listed as Vandsburg/Westpreussen - born 1785. ?My Erdman ancestors also have been noted as coming from Westpreussen.

The above tests were done through National Geographic's "Genographic Project" and were very basic.? Our family goal is to have additional and more precise testing done.

Sincerely,
Nadine Erdman Saiki"





From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Sun May  3 11:14:57 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:14:57 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <36344AED9B2843BA85E45BD36DB27E87@Desktop>

I've had both my y-DNA and mtDNA tested and also submitted my DNA to the
Sorenson Project.

My y-DNA (paternal) gives an I1a haplogroup which is Northern Europe and
Scandinavian, similar to the Vikings but a different branch.  My mtDNA
(maternal) gives a U5 (Ursula) haplogroup which is also Scandinavian.  I
have not found any close matches with others in the groups where I have
submitted my DNA results. 

Interestingly, my genealogy research on my maternal line and several other
lines were pointing strongly to a Netherlands heritage.  My "German" names
such as Leichnitz, Baar, Kleps are more common in the Scandinavian countries
as Likeness, Barr and Klepsch.  Similarly my "Meister", Fagin, Fitsch are
variations of well known UK names Master, Fagin and Fitch.

With both lines pointing to Scandinavian ancestry, I am very keen to find
the link to that area and also to connect by DNA to others in the
Netherlands.  Many of my closest connections in the Sorenson database are UK
and Scandinavian though any connection much more than 10 generations ago.

Earl

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 15:40:18 -0400
From: gswilson19 at aol.com
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB at MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on
themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their
ancestors to be from.

Gail

------------------------------




From garynrho at gmail.com  Sun May  3 12:53:02 2009
From: garynrho at gmail.com (gary and rhonda simpson)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:53:02 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <36344AED9B2843BA85E45BD36DB27E87@Desktop>
References: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<36344AED9B2843BA85E45BD36DB27E87@Desktop>
Message-ID: <DB9F7AD6567A439EADAABCEDF1E909DB@OwnerPC>

        Your Swedish/Scandinavian roots may lead you back to the 30 years 
war under Gustav II of Sweden.  During and after this war, many remained in 
the "taken" lands. I have always suspected my paternal 
Russian/German/Polish Litz line was Swedish, with the earliest records of 
the name showing up in Scandinavia in the 15 and 1600's.  Just a little 
observation, and possible clue!
I haven't had my DNA done, but I know on my maternal side, all ancestors 
back to the 1500's are from Sweden (I'm 2nd gen Canadian on all sides).

Rhonda 



From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Sun May  3 12:44:56 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:44:56 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
	done
In-Reply-To: <DB9F7AD6567A439EADAABCEDF1E909DB@OwnerPC>
References: <mailman.42.1241304020.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<36344AED9B2843BA85E45BD36DB27E87@Desktop>
	<DB9F7AD6567A439EADAABCEDF1E909DB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <ECDFD3B6C4BB4720AD077632DFA93A52@Desktop>

Yes, I agree, Rhonda.  My Leichnitz line which goes back the farthest first
shows up in the Thorn records about 1675 and some other Leichnitz
individuals show up in Poland around 1640.  It is difficult finding records
prior to those dates but the Thorn records go back to about 1608.  I do
suspect that many of my names are rare German names because they are recent
German names with their arrival in the 1600s like after the Gustav II and
likely brought in to help clear the swamps and build windmills.

Earl 

-----Original Message-----
From: gary and rhonda simpson [mailto:garynrho at gmail.com] 
Sent: May 3, 2009 2:53 PM
To: Earl.Schultz; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
done


        Your Swedish/Scandinavian roots may lead you back to the 30 years
war under Gustav II of Sweden.  During and after this war, many remained in
the "taken" lands. I have always suspected my paternal Russian/German/Polish
Litz line was Swedish, with the earliest records of the name showing up in
Scandinavia in the 15 and 1600's.  Just a little observation, and possible
clue!
I haven't had my DNA done, but I know on my maternal side, all ancestors
back to the 1500's are from Sweden (I'm 2nd gen Canadian on all sides).

Rhonda 



From GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net  Sun May  3 16:05:22 2009
From: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net (GARY.RUPPERT@comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 23:05:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <1915773694.3762431241391852674.JavaMail.root@sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1700454673.3762981241391922108.JavaMail.root@sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>



The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat expensive studies?have proven useful at either establishing or disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest as the subject?for a?cocktail?discussion, ?if that is all DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited. 



Have any of you had specific?examples where connections were made or assumptions were disproved?? If so, were they something more than resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change in your research? 


From gmason001 at comcast.net  Sun May  3 17:06:01 2009
From: gmason001 at comcast.net (Greg Mason)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <1700454673.3762981241391922108.JavaMail.root@sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1700454673.3762981241391922108.JavaMail.root@sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF@comcast.net>

Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I  
can speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30  
years I  had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal  
line.  About 5 years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y  
DNA research (and establishment of a study group) which led to  
breaking that brick wall and "confirming" what I had suspected for  
many years.  My suspicions were based on circumstantial evidence;  
fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to a person whom  
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical  
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather,  
I am now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95%  
assurance.  Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a  
"concrete evidence" which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my  
circumstantial evidence, our lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95%  
assurance and stack it up against most of the results I have seen in  
recent years that passes for "genealogical research."  My surname  
lineage and this testing story do not relate to the SGGEE data bases,  
(which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am responding to your  
comment because I believe you have raised  an important point and one  
that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make a  
decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially  
YDNA.  I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA  
testing, especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for  
raising this question.  Greg Mason


On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are  
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by  
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat  
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or  
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending  
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of  
> interest as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all  
> DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is  
> still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or  
> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than  
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major  
> change in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From colnels at telus.net  Sun May  3 19:05:09 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF@comcast.net>
References: <1700454673.3762981241391922108.JavaMail.root@sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>

Hello Greg:
What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
several.
Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
Mason
Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing


Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30 years I
had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line.  About 5
years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
"confirming" what I had suspected for many years.  My suspicions were based
on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
a person whom  
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
research."  My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am
responding to your comment because I believe you have raised  an important
point and one that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make
a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for raising this
question.  Greg Mason


On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
> as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all DNA testing 
> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than 
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
> in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
14:23:00



From cmduff at redwing.net  Sun May  3 20:14:46 2009
From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909@redwing.net>

I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the 
following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest 
for farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, 
both of whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol
DYS 19a 14,
DYS 19b-,
DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II 30, DYS 390 
23, DYS 391 11,
DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15,  DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, 
DYS 441 14,
DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS 446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, 
DYS 449 29,
DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455 11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, 
DYS 459b 10,
DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12, DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15,  DYS 464b 
15, DYS 464c 16,
DYS 464d 17, DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 
23, GATA A10 14,
DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22


From kenkraw at hotmail.com  Mon May  4 14:49:04 2009
From: kenkraw at hotmail.com (kenneth krawczyk)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:49:04 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72,
	Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <BLU137-W17C8F37A44FD149B90DD89A0680@phx.gbl>


I had the 37 marker YDNA as well as the mtDNA done at familytreedna.com, and it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.  I'm R1a1, which is basically Eastern European, and German/Scandanavian on the mtDNA, with a Haplogroup J1a.

No reall matches on anything above 12 markers either, which is a real disappointment.

Ken Krawczyk

> From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:00:02 -0700
> 
> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> 	ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Anyone on the list had any DNA testing	done (Earl.Schultz)
>    2. Re: Anyone on the list had any DNA testing	done
>       (gary and rhonda simpson)
>    3. Re: Anyone on the list had any DNA testing	done (Earl.Schultz)
>    4. Re: DNA testing (GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net)
>    5. Re: DNA testing (Greg Mason)
>    6. Re: DNA testing (Nelson Itterman)
>    7. DNA (Carol Duff)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:14:57 -0500
> From: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA
> 	testing	done
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <36344AED9B2843BA85E45BD36DB27E87 at Desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I've had both my y-DNA and mtDNA tested and also submitted my DNA to the
> Sorenson Project.
> 
> My y-DNA (paternal) gives an I1a haplogroup which is Northern Europe and
> Scandinavian, similar to the Vikings but a different branch.  My mtDNA
> (maternal) gives a U5 (Ursula) haplogroup which is also Scandinavian.  I
> have not found any close matches with others in the groups where I have
> submitted my DNA results. 
> 
> Interestingly, my genealogy research on my maternal line and several other
> lines were pointing strongly to a Netherlands heritage.  My "German" names
> such as Leichnitz, Baar, Kleps are more common in the Scandinavian countries
> as Likeness, Barr and Klepsch.  Similarly my "Meister", Fagin, Fitsch are
> variations of well known UK names Master, Fagin and Fitch.
> 
> With both lines pointing to Scandinavian ancestry, I am very keen to find
> the link to that area and also to connect by DNA to others in the
> Netherlands.  Many of my closest connections in the Sorenson database are UK
> and Scandinavian though any connection much more than 10 generations ago.
> 
> Earl
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 15:40:18 -0400
> From: gswilson19 at aol.com
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
> 	done
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <8CB9974F516779C-960-23DB at MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I'm curious whether anyone on this list has had DNA testing done on
> themselves or their relatives.? And if so, what Haplo group they found their
> ancestors to be from.
> 
> Gail
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:53:02 -0500
> From: "gary and rhonda simpson" <garynrho at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA
> 	testing	done
> To: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>,
> 	<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <DB9F7AD6567A439EADAABCEDF1E909DB at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>         Your Swedish/Scandinavian roots may lead you back to the 30 years 
> war under Gustav II of Sweden.  During and after this war, many remained in 
> the "taken" lands. I have always suspected my paternal 
> Russian/German/Polish Litz line was Swedish, with the earliest records of 
> the name showing up in Scandinavia in the 15 and 1600's.  Just a little 
> observation, and possible clue!
> I haven't had my DNA done, but I know on my maternal side, all ancestors 
> back to the 1500's are from Sweden (I'm 2nd gen Canadian on all sides).
> 
> Rhonda 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:44:56 -0500
> From: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA
> 	testing	done
> To: "'gary and rhonda simpson'" <garynrho at gmail.com>,
> 	<ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <ECDFD3B6C4BB4720AD077632DFA93A52 at Desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Yes, I agree, Rhonda.  My Leichnitz line which goes back the farthest first
> shows up in the Thorn records about 1675 and some other Leichnitz
> individuals show up in Poland around 1640.  It is difficult finding records
> prior to those dates but the Thorn records go back to about 1608.  I do
> suspect that many of my names are rare German names because they are recent
> German names with their arrival in the 1600s like after the Gustav II and
> likely brought in to help clear the swamps and build windmills.
> 
> Earl 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gary and rhonda simpson [mailto:garynrho at gmail.com] 
> Sent: May 3, 2009 2:53 PM
> To: Earl.Schultz; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Anyone on the list had any DNA testing
> done
> 
> 
>         Your Swedish/Scandinavian roots may lead you back to the 30 years
> war under Gustav II of Sweden.  During and after this war, many remained in
> the "taken" lands. I have always suspected my paternal Russian/German/Polish
> Litz line was Swedish, with the earliest records of the name showing up in
> Scandinavia in the 15 and 1600's.  Just a little observation, and possible
> clue!
> I haven't had my DNA done, but I know on my maternal side, all ancestors
> back to the 1500's are from Sweden (I'm 2nd gen Canadian on all sides).
> 
> Rhonda 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 23:05:22 +0000 (UTC)
> From: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<1700454673.3762981241391922108.JavaMail.root at sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> 
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat expensive studies?have proven useful at either establishing or disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest as the subject?for a?cocktail?discussion, ?if that is all DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited. 
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of you had specific?examples where connections were made or assumptions were disproved?? If so, were they something more than resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change in your research? 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
> From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> 
> Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I  
> can speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30  
> years I  had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal  
> line.  About 5 years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y  
> DNA research (and establishment of a study group) which led to  
> breaking that brick wall and "confirming" what I had suspected for  
> many years.  My suspicions were based on circumstantial evidence;  
> fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to a person whom  
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
> results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical  
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather,  
> I am now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95%  
> assurance.  Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a  
> "concrete evidence" which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my  
> circumstantial evidence, our lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95%  
> assurance and stack it up against most of the results I have seen in  
> recent years that passes for "genealogical research."  My surname  
> lineage and this testing story do not relate to the SGGEE data bases,  
> (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am responding to your  
> comment because I believe you have raised  an important point and one  
> that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make a  
> decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially  
> YDNA.  I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA  
> testing, especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for  
> raising this question.  Greg Mason
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are  
> > very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by  
> > this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat  
> > expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or  
> > disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending  
> > or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of  
> > interest as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all  
> > DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is  
> > still limited.
> >
> >
> >
> > Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or  
> > assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than  
> > resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major  
> > change in your research?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Hello Greg:
> What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
> search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
> came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
> several.
> Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
> grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
> further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
> research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
> Nelson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> Mason
> Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> 
> 
> Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
> speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30 years I
> had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line.  About 5
> years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
> establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
> "confirming" what I had suspected for many years.  My suspicions were based
> on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
> a person whom  
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
> results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
> now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
> Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
> which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
> lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
> of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
> research."  My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
> SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am
> responding to your comment because I believe you have raised  an important
> point and one that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make
> a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
> I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
> especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for raising this
> question.  Greg Mason
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
> > very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
> > this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
> > expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
> > disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
> > or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
> > as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all DNA testing 
> > is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
> >
> >
> >
> > Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
> > assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than 
> > resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
> > in your research?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> > Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> > http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
> 14:23:00
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
> From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the 
> following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest 
> for farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, 
> both of whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol
> DYS 19a 14,
> DYS 19b-,
> DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II 30, DYS 390 
> 23, DYS 391 11,
> DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15,  DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, 
> DYS 441 14,
> DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS 446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, 
> DYS 449 29,
> DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455 11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, 
> DYS 459b 10,
> DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12, DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15,  DYS 464b 
> 15, DYS 464c 16,
> DYS 464d 17, DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 
> 23, GATA A10 14,
> DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
> 
> 
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
> **************************************************

_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009

From Doncarolea at aol.com  Tue May  5 02:35:06 2009
From: Doncarolea at aol.com (Doncarolea@aol.com)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 05:35:06 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Stebner / Schmuland
Message-ID: <c01.5dcfea26.3731624a@aol.com>

I am trying to identify the birthplaces of my grandfather, Heinrich  
Stebner, I believe born July 25, 1860 and my grandmother, Julianna Schmuland,  
born 1865. Her parents were Gottfried Schmuland and Justine Pischle.  All I  
know with certainty is that they were were married in Heimtal,  Volhynia on 
June 25, 1882. I have had some responses to a previous email with  regard to 
other Schmulands but none with regard to Stebners even though there  were a 
lot of them in Volhynia.
 
These grandparents emigrated to the US in 1913 with my mother and the rest  
of the family. The birthplaces on the passenger list are not legible.   One 
looks like Walkr or Walko Duqort and the other like Andrec or Audrec Cow  
both placed in "Russia".  I now believe that they born somewhere  outside of 
Volhynia and emigrated there before 1882.  I would really like  to determine 
where these German Lutheran families originally came from.
 
Don Anderson


From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Tue May  5 12:41:24 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>

Gary & Greg and others,

Don't expect major progress with DNA testing but it is worthwhile doing.
Not enough people have submitted their DNA yet to make progess through the
many DNA study groups that are available.  If there are only 10K-15K people
in the study, don't expect much.  Some of the ones I belong to have less
than 100 people.  In 100 Schultzs around the world, it is not likely that
we'd be related.  However, not getting your DNA tested only delays the time
when this tool will be a much more valuable.

However, the real value comes when two people researching the same area and
the same name are tested as in Greg's example.  If you find someone
potentially descended from the same person or the same surname from the same
area then a DNA test for both people can be invaluable.  In my case, finding
someone from the Netherlands with a 10 generations ago match would be
striking gold for me because I am back 9 generations already.

The more people who get this done the more valuable it becomes.  If I didn't
know where my Schultz came from but could see DNA results for other Schultzs
in different areas of Europe, it could help point to the right area.

Just don't expect genealogical type results early on.  I've compared results
with several other cousins from my ancestral area and we are not closely
matched because y-DNA provides only the direct male line, Schultz for me,
and mtDNA provides only the direct maternal line (and because of names
changes each generation is very difficult to utilize).  My cousins are
related on other lines and not on these two lines.

And as for the value of DNA testing versus the hard genealogical records
that we collect and take as proof, it is only accurate if a) the females did
not stray from the marital bed and b) the documents were not falsified as is
the case for my grandmother who was adopted but all the church and state
records for her give her adopted parents, not her real parents.  I'll take
the 95% accuracy of DNA anytime.  With regard to my grandmother, a match on
my maternal DNA may be the only way for me to confirm my true ancestry.
Although I do know the family that she came from, I am unable to get any
proof other than circumstantial.

Earl

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I  
can speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30  
years I  had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal  
line.  About 5 years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y  
DNA research (and establishment of a study group) which led to  
breaking that brick wall and "confirming" what I had suspected for  
many years.  My suspicions were based on circumstantial evidence;  
fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to a person whom  
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical  
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather,  
I am now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95%  
assurance.  Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a  
"concrete evidence" which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my  
circumstantial evidence, our lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95%  
assurance and stack it up against most of the results I have seen in  
recent years that passes for "genealogical research."  My surname  
lineage and this testing story do not relate to the SGGEE data bases,  
(which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am responding to your  
comment because I believe you have raised  an important point and one  
that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make a  
decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially  
YDNA.  I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA  
testing, especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for  
raising this question.  Greg Mason


On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are  
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by  
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat  
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or  
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending  
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of  
> interest as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all  
> DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is  
> still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or  
> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than  
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major  
> change in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Hello Greg:
What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
several.
Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
Mason
Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing


Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30 years I
had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line.  About 5
years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
"confirming" what I had suspected for many years.  My suspicions were based
on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
a person whom  
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
research."  My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am
responding to your comment because I believe you have raised  an important
point and one that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make
a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for raising this
question.  Greg Mason


On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
> as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all DNA testing 
> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than 
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
> in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
14:23:00



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the 
following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest 
for farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, 
both of whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol
DYS 19a 14,
DYS 19b-,
DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II 30, DYS 390 
23, DYS 391 11,
DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15,  DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, 
DYS 441 14,
DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS 446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, 
DYS 449 29,
DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455 11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, 
DYS 459b 10,
DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12, DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15,  DYS 464b 
15, DYS 464c 16,
DYS 464d 17, DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 
23, GATA A10 14,
DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html


End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
**************************************************



From colnels at telus.net  Tue May  5 15:35:23 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 16:35:23 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>
References: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>
Message-ID: <000501c9cdd1$c8351230$589f3690$@net>

I very much appreciate your advice.
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Earl.Schultz
Sent: May-05-09 1:41 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing


Gary & Greg and others,

Don't expect major progress with DNA testing but it is worthwhile doing.
Not enough people have submitted their DNA yet to make progess through the
many DNA study groups that are available.  If there are only 10K-15K people
in the study, don't expect much.  Some of the ones I belong to have less
than 100 people.  In 100 Schultzs around the world, it is not likely that
we'd be related.  However, not getting your DNA tested only delays the time
when this tool will be a much more valuable.

However, the real value comes when two people researching the same area and
the same name are tested as in Greg's example.  If you find someone
potentially descended from the same person or the same surname from the same
area then a DNA test for both people can be invaluable.  In my case, finding
someone from the Netherlands with a 10 generations ago match would be
striking gold for me because I am back 9 generations already.

The more people who get this done the more valuable it becomes.  If I didn't
know where my Schultz came from but could see DNA results for other Schultzs
in different areas of Europe, it could help point to the right area.

Just don't expect genealogical type results early on.  I've compared results
with several other cousins from my ancestral area and we are not closely
matched because y-DNA provides only the direct male line, Schultz for me,
and mtDNA provides only the direct maternal line (and because of names
changes each generation is very difficult to utilize).  My cousins are
related on other lines and not on these two lines.

And as for the value of DNA testing versus the hard genealogical records
that we collect and take as proof, it is only accurate if a) the females did
not stray from the marital bed and b) the documents were not falsified as is
the case for my grandmother who was adopted but all the church and state
records for her give her adopted parents, not her real parents.  I'll take
the 95% accuracy of DNA anytime.  With regard to my grandmother, a match on
my maternal DNA may be the only way for me to confirm my true ancestry.
Although I do know the family that she came from, I am unable to get any
proof other than circumstantial.

Earl

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30 years I
had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line.  About 5
years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
"confirming" what I had suspected for many years.  My suspicions were based
on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
a person whom  
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
research."  My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am
responding to your comment because I believe you have raised  an important
point and one that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make
a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for raising this
question.  Greg Mason


On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
> as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all DNA testing 
> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than 
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
> in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Hello Greg:
What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
several.
Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
Mason
Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing


Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30 years I
had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line.  About 5
years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
"confirming" what I had suspected for many years.  My suspicions were based
on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
a person whom  
ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical
analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
research."  My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am
responding to your comment because I believe you have raised  an important
point and one that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make
a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for raising this
question.  Greg Mason


On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
> as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all DNA testing 
> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>
>
>
> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than 
> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
> in your research?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
14:23:00



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the
following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest for
farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, both of
whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol DYS 19a
14, DYS 19b-, DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II
30, DYS 390 23, DYS 391 11, DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15,
DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, DYS 441 14, DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS
446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, DYS 449 29, DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455
11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, DYS 459b 10, DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12,
DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15,  DYS 464b 15, DYS 464c 16, DYS 464d 17,
DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 23, GATA A10 14,
DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org Mailing
list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html


End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
**************************************************


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.19/2099 - Release Date: 05/05/09
13:07:00



From Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de  Wed May  6 00:15:20 2009
From: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de (Jutta Dennerlein)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:15:20 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>
References: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>
Message-ID: <4A013908.9060606@t-online.de>

Just to add another thought to the DNA testing discussion:

Since 2006 I get regular requests from companies who sell DNA tests. 
They want to have their link or their banner placed on the 
UpstreamVistula website. They also would appreciate an article about 
DNA-Genealogy on my website - of course with their link on the same page.
For this 'affiliate program' they offer cash for each customer they get 
through these links.
I think they contact each website which has keywords like Genealogy or 
Ahnenforschung on it and it seems to be worth the effort, since there is 
obviously a lot of money and a growing market connected with this.

Of course you will never find a link like this on www.UpstreamVistula.org .

My personal opinion to this issue is, that nobody 'owns' his DNA 
information. It is something we get from our ancestors and we pass on to 
our descendants. Everything we do with this information might affect our 
descendants.
Publishing 'your' DNA information might prevent one of your 
great-grandchildren to get a specific job because of some weaknesses in 
the family DNA. Insurance companies will calculate risks to their 
advantage using the family DNA information. They might even refuse to 
pay if they find out, that you did not inform them about some additional 
risks which you knew of, since you had your DNA tested.

Kind regards

Jutta Dennerlein

www.upstreamvistula.org



Earl.Schultz wrote:
> Gary & Greg and others,
>
> Don't expect major progress with DNA testing but it is worthwhile doing.
> Not enough people have submitted their DNA yet to make progess through the
> many DNA study groups that are available.  If there are only 10K-15K people
> in the study, don't expect much.  Some of the ones I belong to have less
> than 100 people.  In 100 Schultzs around the world, it is not likely that
> we'd be related.  However, not getting your DNA tested only delays the time
> when this tool will be a much more valuable.
>
> However, the real value comes when two people researching the same area and
> the same name are tested as in Greg's example.  If you find someone
> potentially descended from the same person or the same surname from the same
> area then a DNA test for both people can be invaluable.  In my case, finding
> someone from the Netherlands with a 10 generations ago match would be
> striking gold for me because I am back 9 generations already.
>
> The more people who get this done the more valuable it becomes.  If I didn't
> know where my Schultz came from but could see DNA results for other Schultzs
> in different areas of Europe, it could help point to the right area.
>
> Just don't expect genealogical type results early on.  I've compared results
> with several other cousins from my ancestral area and we are not closely
> matched because y-DNA provides only the direct male line, Schultz for me,
> and mtDNA provides only the direct maternal line (and because of names
> changes each generation is very difficult to utilize).  My cousins are
> related on other lines and not on these two lines.
>
> And as for the value of DNA testing versus the hard genealogical records
> that we collect and take as proof, it is only accurate if a) the females did
> not stray from the marital bed and b) the documents were not falsified as is
> the case for my grandmother who was adopted but all the church and state
> records for her give her adopted parents, not her real parents.  I'll take
> the 95% accuracy of DNA anytime.  With regard to my grandmother, a match on
> my maternal DNA may be the only way for me to confirm my true ancestry.
> Although I do know the family that she came from, I am unable to get any
> proof other than circumstantial.
>
> Earl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
> From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I  
> can speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30  
> years I  had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal  
> line.  About 5 years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y  
> DNA research (and establishment of a study group) which led to  
> breaking that brick wall and "confirming" what I had suspected for  
> many years.  My suspicions were based on circumstantial evidence;  
> fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to a person whom  
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
> results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical  
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather,  
> I am now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95%  
> assurance.  Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a  
> "concrete evidence" which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my  
> circumstantial evidence, our lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95%  
> assurance and stack it up against most of the results I have seen in  
> recent years that passes for "genealogical research."  My surname  
> lineage and this testing story do not relate to the SGGEE data bases,  
> (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am responding to your  
> comment because I believe you have raised  an important point and one  
> that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make a  
> decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially  
> YDNA.  I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA  
> testing, especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for  
> raising this question.  Greg Mason
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
>   
>> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are  
>> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by  
>> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat  
>> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or  
>> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending  
>> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of  
>> interest as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all  
>> DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is  
>> still limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or  
>> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than  
>> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major  
>> change in your research?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>     
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hello Greg:
> What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
> search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
> came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
> several.
> Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
> grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
> further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
> research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> Mason
> Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
>
>
> Gary:  You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
> speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience.  For 30 years I
> had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line.  About 5
> years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
> establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
> "confirming" what I had suspected for many years.  My suspicions were based
> on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
> a person whom  
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather.    With the  
> results of 67 marker Y DNA  testing, together with detailed historical
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
> now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
> Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
> which  "proves" my lineage.  I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
> lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
> of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
> research."  My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
> SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage)  but I am
> responding to your comment because I believe you have raised  an important
> point and one that most researchers must ultimately  deal with as they make
> a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
> I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
> especially without the detailed paper trails.  Thanks for raising this
> question.  Greg Mason
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
>   
>> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
>> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
>> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
>> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
>> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
>> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
>> as the subject for a cocktail discussion,  if that is all DNA testing 
>> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
>> assumptions were disproved?  If so, were they something more than 
>> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
>> in your research?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
>> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
>> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
> 14:23:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
> From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the 
> following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest 
> for farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, 
> both of whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol
> DYS 19a 14,
> DYS 19b-,
> DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II 30, DYS 390 
> 23, DYS 391 11,
> DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15,  DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, 
> DYS 441 14,
> DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS 446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, 
> DYS 449 29,
> DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455 11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, 
> DYS 459b 10,
> DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12, DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15,  DYS 464b 
> 15, DYS 464c 16,
> DYS 464d 17, DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 
> 23, GATA A10 14,
> DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
> **************************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From Vvtiede at web.de  Wed May  6 00:53:08 2009
From: Vvtiede at web.de (Vvtiede@web.de)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:53:08 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
Message-ID: <1281317103@web.de>



 

I?m following the discussion referring the DNA testing with great interest and I completely agree to that what Jutta Dennerlein wrote. 

Kind regards

Vera von Tiedemann


*Von:* "Jutta Dennerlein" <Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de>
*Gesendet:* 06.05.09 09:18:29
*An:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
*Betreff:* Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing



Just to add another thought to the DNA testing discussion:

Since 2006 I get regular requests from companies who sell DNA tests. 
They want to have their link or their banner placed on the 
UpstreamVistula website. They also would appreciate an article about 
DNA-Genealogy on my website - of course with their link on the same page.
For this 'affiliate program' they offer cash for each customer they get 
through these links.
I think they contact each website which has keywords like Genealogy or 
Ahnenforschung on it and it seems to be worth the effort, since there is 
obviously a lot of money and a growing market connected with this.

Of course you will never find a link like this on www.UpstreamVistula.org .

My personal opinion to this issue is, that nobody 'owns' his DNA 
information. It is something we get from our ancestors and we pass on to 
our descendants. Everything we do with this information might affect our 
descendants.
Publishing 'your' DNA information might prevent one of your 
great-grandchildren to get a specific job because of some weaknesses in 
the family DNA. Insurance companies will calculate risks to their 
advantage using the family DNA information. They might even refuse to 
pay if they find out, that you did not inform them about some additional 
risks which you knew of, since you had your DNA tested.

Kind regards

Jutta Dennerlein

www.upstreamvistula.org



Earl.Schultz wrote:
> Gary & Greg and others,
>
> Don't expect major progress with DNA testing but it is worthwhile doing.
> Not enough people have submitted their DNA yet to make progess through the
> many DNA study groups that are available. If there are only 10K-15K people
> in the study, don't expect much. Some of the ones I belong to have less
> than 100 people. In 100 Schultzs around the world, it is not likely that
> we'd be related. However, not getting your DNA tested only delays the time
> when this tool will be a much more valuable.
>
> However, the real value comes when two people researching the same area and
> the same name are tested as in Greg's example. If you find someone
> potentially descended from the same person or the same surname from the same
> area then a DNA test for both people can be invaluable. In my case, finding
> someone from the Netherlands with a 10 generations ago match would be
> striking gold for me because I am back 9 generations already.
>
> The more people who get this done the more valuable it becomes. If I didn't
> know where my Schultz came from but could see DNA results for other Schultzs
> in different areas of Europe, it could help point to the right area.
>
> Just don't expect genealogical type results early on. I've compared results
> with several other cousins from my ancestral area and we are not closely
> matched because y-DNA provides only the direct male line, Schultz for me,
> and mtDNA provides only the direct maternal line (and because of names
> changes each generation is very difficult to utilize). My cousins are
> related on other lines and not on these two lines.
>
> And as for the value of DNA testing versus the hard genealogical records
> that we collect and take as proof, it is only accurate if a) the females did
> not stray from the marital bed and b) the documents were not falsified as is
> the case for my grandmother who was adopted but all the church and state
> records for her give her adopted parents, not her real parents. I'll take
> the 95% accuracy of DNA anytime. With regard to my grandmother, a match on
> my maternal DNA may be the only way for me to confirm my true ancestry.
> Although I do know the family that she came from, I am unable to get any
> proof other than circumstantial.
>
> Earl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:06:01 -0400
> From: Greg Mason <gmason001 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <A1EB9452-3501-4E06-B7DF-001415DA22BF at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Gary: You have raised a very important question and one about which I 
> can speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience. For 30 
> years I had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal 
> line. About 5 years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y 
> DNA research (and establishment of a study group) which led to 
> breaking that brick wall and "confirming" what I had suspected for 
> many years. My suspicions were based on circumstantial evidence; 
> fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to a person whom 
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather. With the 
> results of 67 marker Y DNA testing, together with detailed historical 
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, 
> I am now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% 
> assurance. Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a 
> "concrete evidence" which "proves" my lineage. I'll take my 
> circumstantial evidence, our lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% 
> assurance and stack it up against most of the results I have seen in 
> recent years that passes for "genealogical research." My surname 
> lineage and this testing story do not relate to the SGGEE data bases, 
> (which are rather on my wife's lineage) but I am responding to your 
> comment because I believe you have raised an important point and one 
> that most researchers must ultimately deal with as they make a 
> decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially 
> YDNA. I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA 
> testing, especially without the detailed paper trails. Thanks for 
> raising this question. Greg Mason
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
> 
>> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
>> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
>> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
>> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
>> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
>> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of 
>> interest as the subject for a cocktail discussion, if that is all 
>> DNA testing is able to provide at the moment then its utility is 
>> still limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
>> assumptions were disproved? If so, were they something more than 
>> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major 
>> change in your research?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:05:09 -0600
> From: "Nelson Itterman" <colnels at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
> To: "'Greg Mason'" <gmason001 at comcast.net>, <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <001801c9cc5c$c13a22c0$43ae6840$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hello Greg:
> What a story, looks like miracles can happen. It appears that a diligent
> search could succeed. I am stuck in Volhynia with the story that the family
> came from Konigsburg, which Konigsburg? Ost Preussen or Preussen? There are
> several.
> Now you've got me on the hook. I have hit the wall with my 3rd great
> grandfather, on my paternal line, and have been wondering how I could reach
> further back. You give me hope. Could you direct me to a specific DNA
> research establishment so that I can start. You can contact me directly.
> Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> Mason
> Sent: May-03-09 6:06 PM
> To: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
>
>
> Gary: You have raised a very important question and one about which I can
> speak with a fair degree of positive personal experience. For 30 years I
> had a brick wall at the 3d great grandfather in my paternal line. About 5
> years ago a distant cousin and I began some serious Y DNA research (and
> establishment of a study group) which led to breaking that brick wall and
> "confirming" what I had suspected for many years. My suspicions were based
> on circumstantial evidence; fortunately, he had a solid paper trail back to
> a person whom 
> ultimately became our common 4th great grandfather. With the 
> results of 67 marker Y DNA testing, together with detailed historical
> analysis of male children and siblings of that 4th great grandfather, I am
> now able to assume my 3d great grandfather's identity with a 95% assurance.
> Now, a purist would argue that I still do not have a "concrete evidence"
> which "proves" my lineage. I'll take my circumstantial evidence, our
> lineage analysis, and the Y DNA 95% assurance and stack it up against most
> of the results I have seen in recent years that passes for "genealogical
> research." My surname lineage and this testing story do not relate to the
> SGGEE data bases, (which are rather on my wife's lineage) but I am
> responding to your comment because I believe you have raised an important
> point and one that most researchers must ultimately deal with as they make
> a decision of whether or not to proceed with DNA testing, especially YDNA.
> I do share your concerns about the limited utility of mtDNA testing,
> especially without the detailed paper trails. Thanks for raising this
> question. Greg Mason
>
>
> On May 3, 2009, at 7:05 PM, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net wrote:
>
> 
>> The results of DNA testing whether mitochrondial or haplotyping are 
>> very interesting, especially in a specialized group represented by 
>> this mail list, I am wondering however how often these somewhat 
>> expensive studies have proven useful at either establishing or 
>> disproving a genealogy link to another individual and thus extending 
>> or pruning a line? Although knowing ancient origins may be of interest 
>> as the subject for a cocktail discussion, if that is all DNA testing 
>> is able to provide at the moment then its utility is still limited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have any of you had specific examples where connections were made or 
>> assumptions were disproved? If so, were they something more than 
>> resolution of a question or paternity or did they make a major change 
>> in your research?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German 
>> Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at 
>> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.15/2093 - Release Date: 05/02/09
> 14:23:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:14:46 -0500
> From: Carol Duff <cmduff at redwing.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <49FE5DA6.3080909 at redwing.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I had DNA tested at Ancestry, from my brother. It is R1b. Perhaps the 
> following means something to someone or perhaps someone has a suggest 
> for farther research. This brought me no closer than 15 generations, 
> both of whome seem unlikely connections as I know 15 generations back. Carol
> DYS 19a 14,
> DYS 19b-,
> DYS 385a 11, DYS 385b 15, DYS 388 12, DYS 389I 14, DYS 389II 30, DYS 390 
> 23, DYS 391 11,
> DYS 392 13, DYS 393 13, DYS 426 12, DYS 437 15, DYS 438 12, DYS 439 12, 
> DYS 441 14,
> DYS 442 17, DYS 444 12, DYS 445 12, DYS 446 14, DYS 447 25, DYS 448 20, 
> DYS 449 29,
> DYS 452 31, DYS 454 11, DYS 455 11, DYS 456 15, DYS 458 18, DYS 459a 9, 
> DYS 459b 10,
> DYS 460 10, DYS 461 12, DYS 462 11, DYS 463 24, DYS 464a 15, DYS 464b 
> 15, DYS 464c 16,
> DYS 464d 17, DYS 464e -, DYS 464f -, GAAT 1B07 10, YCA IIa 19, YCA IIb 
> 23, GATA A10 14,
> DYS 635 23, GATA H4.1 22
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
>
>
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9
> **************************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
> 

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From kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu  Wed May  6 04:02:11 2009
From: kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu (Ken Browne)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 07:02:11 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] request: history lesson
Message-ID: <4A016E33.3050100@alumni.umass.edu>

I hope this doesn't end up as a double posting. I accidentally sent the 
original from an email address NOT the one I am registered with on this 
list.


Perhaps I should know more about this but here's what I'd like to know.

   * In pre_WWII times (dates please?) Hitler's regime confiscated
     passports (of whom and why?).
   *  What was the arrangement for "repatriation" and to whom did it
     apply and when did occur?


Based on to letters that I have I can deduce some partial answers, but I 
would like to be more certain about timelines. More accurate knowledge 
of the history of these years may help me unravel a mystery in my family 
tree.

Thanks,

Kenneth Browne researching:
BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF
LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL
NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE


From GHBoehm at ish.de  Wed May  6 04:44:58 2009
From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 13:44:58 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] request: history lesson
In-Reply-To: <4A016E33.3050100@alumni.umass.edu>
References: <4A016E33.3050100@alumni.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <4A01783A.3050005@ish.de>

Ken Browne schrieb:
> Perhaps I should know more about this but here's what I'd like to know.
>
>    * In pre_WWII times (dates please?) Hitler's regime confiscated
>      passports (of whom and why?).
>    *  What was the arrangement for "repatriation" and to whom did it
>      apply and when did occur?
>
>
> Based on to letters that I have I can deduce some partial answers, but I 
> would like to be more certain about timelines. More accurate knowledge 
> of the history of these years may help me unravel a mystery in my family 
> tree.
>   

Hello Ken,
formally, the action was based on a Polish decree of Oct. 6, 1938 to set 
all passports of Polish expats void on Oct. 30th, if they had no 
additional audit endorsement. The purpose of this decree was directed 
against the Polish Jews living in Austria which were believed to return 
en masse to Poland after the annexation of the country by Nazi-Germany. 
Most of the affected Polish citizens were turned stateless by this 
directive. In reaction, Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich HIMMLER ordered on 
Oct. 26th, that all Polish subjects had to leave Germany within three 
days. They were arrested and brought to the Polish border where 
provisional camps had been erected in a hurry on Polish territory.

G?nther


From jfcmurphy at ntcnet.com  Wed May  6 06:24:23 2009
From: jfcmurphy at ntcnet.com (James Murphy)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:24:23 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation
Message-ID: <4B02E611315A49528B6A3EA78690A9AB@hal>

Is there anyone who is able to do Polish tranlations?
I received an e-mail from a civil registry in Poland, but am not able to translate the message. (I can read German, but no Polish).  Thanks for any suggestions!
Carol Pidde Murphy

From cgschott at comcast.net  Wed May  6 07:36:04 2009
From: cgschott at comcast.net (Carolyn Schott)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 07:36:04 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA Testing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.51.1241594181.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.51.1241594181.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <920118A53EE548438F75A678300388D6@Carolyn>

In another genealogy group I'm part of (Germans from Russia Heritage
Society) we did a series of articles about DNA genealogy in our quarterly
magazine back in January 2007. The article the Sorenson Foundation people
wrote for us wasn't all that exciting :-) but we had a couple that real
people wrote that I thought were pretty interesting. Sue Eipert talked about
the process she went through in deciding what DNA testing company to use and
about looking at the results. Tim Janzen gave some medical background on how
DNA works genealogically...and talked about a big project that the
Mennonites have to test DNA and use that to figure out family relationships.

The magazine is online, but is in our Members Only area. But if you're
interested in seeing those particular articles, contact me one-on-one and
I'll send you copies of those.

(And no, we didn't put any of these companies' logos on our website either!)
:-)

Carolyn Schott
cgschott at comcast.net
 
 

>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:15:20 +0200
>From: Jutta Dennerlein <Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de>
>Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
>To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>Message-ID: <4A013908.9060606 at t-online.de>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed
>
>Just to add another thought to the DNA testing discussion:
>
>Since 2006 I get regular requests from companies who sell DNA tests. 
>They want to have their link or their banner placed on the 
>UpstreamVistula website. They also would appreciate an article 
>about DNA-Genealogy on my website - of course with their link 
>on the same page.
>For this 'affiliate program' they offer cash for each customer 
>they get through these links.
>I think they contact each website which has keywords like 
>Genealogy or Ahnenforschung on it and it seems to be worth the 
>effort, since there is obviously a lot of money and a growing 
>market connected with this.
>
>Of course you will never find a link like this on 
>www.UpstreamVistula.org .
>
>My personal opinion to this issue is, that nobody 'owns' his 
>DNA information. It is something we get from our ancestors and 
>we pass on to our descendants. Everything we do with this 
>information might affect our descendants.
>Publishing 'your' DNA information might prevent one of your 
>great-grandchildren to get a specific job because of some 
>weaknesses in the family DNA. Insurance companies will 
>calculate risks to their advantage using the family DNA 
>information. They might even refuse to pay if they find out, 
>that you did not inform them about some additional risks which 
>you knew of, since you had your DNA tested.
>
>Kind regards
>
>Jutta Dennerlein
>
>www.upstreamvistula.org
>
>
>



From otto at schienke.com  Wed May  6 07:37:12 2009
From: otto at schienke.com (Otto)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:37:12 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
Message-ID: <02832818-BDF0-4B4C-8101-E2B5C3E27AE9@schienke.com>

Good morning All,
i've been following the thread on DNA testing since it was introduced  
about a week ago and detect a common fear and suspicion of a subject  
not understood.  I liken it to fear of vulnerability some have of  
undressing in the doctor's office. . . I say better there than with  
undertaker's hands.

Legally, you own your DNA (code) the same as you own your body and  
your life. That has always been an issue of international law, who  
owns the body? You? or the State? In my country I own my body and have  
laws to support my stand on the issue.

We today live in an "information driven society". Our bodies are a  
vast library of information (code) resulting in laws to protect our  
"medical information". The "owner of the body" has final say to  
release of any information to a third party. (the same rule with DNA  
code-be careful in what rights you sign away to your code)

DNA extraction is a deep scientific process and definitely not a  
hobby. Basically all advances in the biomedical field are due to it.
(for example, the study of bacterial code to discover their  
susceptibilities and weaknesses)

To genealogists DNA testing is yet another tool and not an "answer" to  
our research.
(one must remember that "good research" generates "good questions"...  
not good answers)
(those looking for immediate answers may be disappointed)
Like a sharp knife, one can slice bread, or cut a finger... skill  
needs to be developed in using the tool.
Most testing for genealogical purposes are limited to the Y chromosome  
for the male lineage and for the maternal lineage, the DNA of the  
cellular mitochondria.  A brief example:  http://www.isogg.org/tree/index.html

DNA tests are no better or greater than the "chip" used by a company  
for the info extraction process. (there can be errors) Chips known as  
"electronic chemistry labs on a chip". A brief introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_microarray

A brief introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test
(this should differentiate between STR's and SNP's)

Most testing is of the forensic type with STR's, a shallow "now" look  
at identity.
Some companies divide testing into small individual tests resulting in  
a nifty combined fee in the end.
(let the buyer beware)
A brief introduction: http://www.scientific.org/tutorials/articles/riley/riley.html
There exists a lot of competition, like the world of computers and  
Internet in the '80's and 90's, on the part of genetic testing  
companies to posture and position in the marketplace. It behooves one  
to choose wisely. The few lines of information gleaned are usually  
compared only to the in-house database of the testing company.

I personally opted for a deep SNP based test including ALL of the  
chromosomes plus the mitochondria. This decision was not based on my  
own volition but on the counsel of a well-known molecular  
anthropologist. I needed the broad spectrum map to see where my  
lineage originated. It gave me the insight regarding as "where to  
look". The test was a "pointing finger." The $400. was well spent  
considering the mountain of information gleaned. I was able to  
download the personal genome (and can also choose to erase it from the  
testing company database) and now analyze it using software  
applications to reveal a wealth of medical information. (months of  
endeavor) I am not limited to one company's database for comparison, I  
can go global for comps. Subclades (subgroup indicators) to the main  
haplogroup are being added daily in this growing science. (like  
driving a porsche instead of riding a donkey)
A brief introduction: http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2007/06/20/what-do-the-results-of-a-deep-snp-test-mean/
http://www.isogg.org/tree/index.html

A haplogroup number is not the actual DNA code generating it.  (one  
must choose to release the code generating the numbers)
I feel knowing "where to look" gives me a leg up on the challenge.
I own my DNA information and choose how much and to whom I release it.  
Like money, one does not indiscriminately leave it laying around in  
public places.

As one SGGEE researcher recently stated to me, "Very very cool!!!! You  
knocked out years of research for me in one fell swoop. Chances are  
we're related." (probably are, based on indicated location, stature,  
and facial structure) My own reply to the testing was the same.


. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



From remus at hawaii.edu  Wed May  6 08:44:03 2009
From: remus at hawaii.edu (William Remus)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:44:03 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA presentation at our convention in
	Milwaukee in July
In-Reply-To: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <fc62eafc341e0.4a0169f3@hawaii.edu>

I have followed with interest the discussion on using DNA in genealogical research. Many very good points were raised and successes reported.? And there is even more to be said about the topic.

For those of you wanting a comprehensive presentation on the topic, I will provide an hour long seminar on DNA at our SGGEE Annual Convention in Milwaukee the last weekend in July. And there are lots more interesting sessions there. And it is Germanfest Weekend too.

See you there ?

Regards Bill Remus

********************************************************************
William Remus 
Emeritus Professor of Information Technology Management
2404 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96822
Telephone: 808-956-7608?? Fax: 808-956-9889
For Information about Bill Remus, go to his website http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/
********************************************************************




From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Wed May  6 11:04:24 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:04:24 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <4CD1BCF005404CDFAD185627D429BC98@Desktop>

 I think Otto's comments are useful to address this common and unfounded
fear that one's DNA will be used for some ulterior motive.  In fact, the
y-DNA does not contain any personal characteristics of an individual, just
the DNA that determines the male gender.  I think it is similar for mtDNA.
This cannot be used to tell if I am at a higher risk of getting cancer, for
example.  Otto's very deep test may provide that sort of information but not
the standard y-DNA test that many of us get.  Even in Otto's case, if an
organization were to try to profit from the DNA information they have they
likely wouldn't stay in business very long since this would be an illegal
practice, not that it can't happen.  It is not likely.

Further, I am aware that in Canada and I believe in the USA as well, it is
illegal for organizations to use DNA results to disadvantage certain
individuals or groups so insurance companies cannot do, legally, what Jutta
is suggesting.  If they wanted to they would have to have far more than
y-DNA tests.

If you wish to learn more about yourself and to aid your genealogy research,
albeit in a very small way, then the few hundred dollars for the test is
well worthwhile.  For those of us who have had it done, I think I can safely
say that we do not fear our DNA being used against us.  If my insurance
company wanted to do that, they have only to search my garbage for tossed
kleenex, hair, drinking bottles and cups.  We leave behind our DNA wherever
we go and I'm still waiting for someone to clone me.

Earl
 
------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:37:12 -0400
From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Cc: Jutta Dennerlein <Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de>
Message-ID: <02832818-BDF0-4B4C-8101-E2B5C3E27AE9 at schienke.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	format=flowed;
delsp=yes

Good morning All,
i've been following the thread on DNA testing since it was introduced  
about a week ago and detect a common fear and suspicion of a subject  
not understood.  I liken it to fear of vulnerability some have of  
undressing in the doctor's office. . . I say better there than with  
undertaker's hands.

Legally, you own your DNA (code) the same as you own your body and  
your life. That has always been an issue of international law, who  
owns the body? You? or the State? In my country I own my body and have  
laws to support my stand on the issue.

-snip-

A haplogroup number is not the actual DNA code generating it.  (one  
must choose to release the code generating the numbers)
I feel knowing "where to look" gives me a leg up on the challenge.
I own my DNA information and choose how much and to whom I release it.  
Like money, one does not indiscriminately leave it laying around in  
public places.

As one SGGEE researcher recently stated to me, "Very very cool!!!! You  
knocked out years of research for me in one fell swoop. Chances are  
we're related." (probably are, based on indicated location, stature,  
and facial structure) My own reply to the testing was the same.


. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html


End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 12
***************************************************



From seipert at gmail.com  Wed May  6 16:50:09 2009
From: seipert at gmail.com (Sue Eipert)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 16:50:09 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>
References: <mailman.1.1241463602.4111.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<3D952ADACF104DD1AC0DBB81BD3F99BD@Desktop>
Message-ID: <4A022231.7010203@gmail.com>

Joining various project or surname groups can be a useful way to compare 
related DNA results. I have submitted the Y DNA and mitochondrial DNA 
results from tests of my paternal uncle's DNA to several projects in 
hopes that I might learn something about my paternal line and my 
grandmother's maternal line.  Each project has a description of its 
goals and also lists the names in the project. Some of the projects are 
with the Family Tree DNA company. I believe that if you have been tested 
for the National Geographic project, you can add your data to the Family 
Tree DNA database and join these projects (see the information under 
Notes at http://www.german-dna.net/index.htm).

I checked with the administrators of both the German and Polish groups 
to see if my uncle, whose oldest known ancestors are ethnic Germans from 
Poland, was eligible to join. My family fits the criteria for both groups.

As for privacy issues, my uncle's name never appears in the databases, 
just his most distant known ancestor (paternal or maternal).

- Polish FamilyTree DNA Project: 
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/polish/default.aspx?section=goals
This project has an interesting list of goals.
In the Y DNA section, my ancestor Samuel Radke is listed under R1a - N 
Cluster; and in the mDNA section, find my ancestor Anna Dorothea Zielke 
under HV.

- Germany DNA Project:  http://www.german-dna.net/index.htm
Here I listed Martin (Samuel's father) as my uncle's oldest known 
ancestor in the Y DNA section. His origin is rather vague, however. It 
looks like I forgot to enter the mDNA results in this project; I will do so.

- The 'Radtke' surname group is very small - see 
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Radke/default.aspx?section=yresults.
My ancestor Samuel is listed here.

- R1a1 group: 
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1aY-Haplogroup/default.aspx?section=yresults
Samuel Radke is listed under Prussia/Germ/Poland

Keep in mind that the usual Y DNA (paternal) testing and the 
mitochondrial DNA (maternal) tests are testing only 2 ancestral lines. 
For example, if you have 16 different great-great grandparents, your Y 
and mitochondrial DNA results can provide information only about 2 of 
those individuals (your mother's mother's mother's mother and your 
father's father's father's father). The correlation of paternal lines 
with surnames, plus the nature of the Y DNA mutations, make the Y DNA 
test the most useful of the two for genealogy. The autosomal tests are 
the only ones that will have information about your complete ancestry.

Sue Eipert
seipert2 at gmail.com



From maiksenninger at live.de  Thu May  7 02:25:39 2009
From: maiksenninger at live.de (Maik Senninger)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 11:25:39 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;
	My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
Message-ID: <BLU142-W85B5D60064C9865E9710EAC670@phx.gbl>



 





Hello. My Name is Maik Senninger.
 
I am from germany and searching for my ancestors at the middle of poland.
Jerry (Frank), thanks for your invitation. 
It is a long time ago, that I learn english at school. But I think it is enough for understanding.
 
My Grandparents Eugen Senninger *1925 Wydrakow near Tomaszow and Elsa Senninger nee Zimpel * 1924 Wola-Wiaderna near Tomaszow 
are running away from Poland to the Mark Brandenburg after the end of the second world war.
 
Some members of my family like Pranke, emigrated at 1928 to Wapella, Saskatchewan, Canada. 
 
Now a list with the names how I search. Not all of the names are familymembers of the first line, 
but all the familys are lived together at the same villages and are related by marriage.

 

Some of the villages are: Syski; Blogie; Sepno; Wydrakow; Bukowiec; Wola-Wiaderna;  

 

This villages are all between Tomaszow Maz. and Petrikau
 
Senninger; Zimpel; Schultz; Pranke; Wuschke; Ickert; Geisler; Kebsch; Lerben; Mogdans; Zelmer; Bartsch; Titschowski; Friske;
 
Arndt; Albrecht; Kempin; Beutler; Wolter; Klinger; Fleischer; Makus, Fuhrmann; Gabert; Behr; Jagusch; Lorentz; Ruschewski;
 
Liebel; Matzanke; Neumann; Petrich; Pufal; Ristok; Rode; Kossmann; Link; Splett; Hoffmann; Wodke; Hahn; Schlender; Wildemann; Majer;
 
 
At the german list www.mittelpolen.de we work together to built a network. Our problem is that the Churchbooks of Tomaszow Mazowiecki are destroyed
at the end of the war. 
 
I hope we can work together to filled this hole with informations.
 
Have a nice day. 
 
Maik ( Senninger )
 
 
 







Posteingang immer voll? Der erste Speicher, der mitw?chst: Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!

_________________________________________________________________
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xIE8_MSN3
Hol Dir den neuen Internet Explorer 8 mit MSN-Toolbar

From gary at warnerengineering.com  Thu May  7 08:17:09 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 08:17:09 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Stebner / Schmuland
In-Reply-To: <c01.5dcfea26.3731624a@aol.com>
References: <c01.5dcfea26.3731624a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4A02FB75.9030503@warnerengineering.com>

Don,

Were the people listed below Lutherans at the time of the 1882 marriage?

Gary Warner

Doncarolea at aol.com wrote:
> I am trying to identify the birthplaces of my grandfather, Heinrich  
> Stebner, I believe born July 25, 1860 and my grandmother, Julianna Schmuland,  
> born 1865. Her parents were Gottfried Schmuland and Justine Pischle.  All I  
> know with certainty is that they were were married in Heimtal,  Volhynia on 
> June 25, 1882. I have had some responses to a previous email with  regard to 
> other Schmulands but none with regard to Stebners even though there  were a 
> lot of them in Volhynia.
>  
> These grandparents emigrated to the US in 1913 with my mother and the rest  
> of the family. The birthplaces on the passenger list are not legible.   One 
> looks like Walkr or Walko Duqort and the other like Andrec or Audrec Cow  
> both placed in "Russia".  I now believe that they born somewhere  outside of 
> Volhynia and emigrated there before 1882.  I would really like  to determine 
> where these German Lutheran families originally came from.
>  
> Don Anderson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From ra_stein at telus.net  Thu May  7 08:47:13 2009
From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:47:13 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;
	My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
In-Reply-To: <BLU142-W85B5D60064C9865E9710EAC670@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU142-W85B5D60064C9865E9710EAC670@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5594EFEC0C214CE79B7F234F7269C894@RichardPC>

I know from perusing the Rozyszcze parish records (western part of Volhynia) 
in the late 1800's than many of the German settlers came from Petrikau and 
Tomaszow parishes.  Many of your surnames are found in Rozyszcze parish. 
For example, some Wuschke families from Syskie settled in Helenow, near 
Torczyn.  I know you are interested in the people who remained near Tomaszow 
but sometimes it is possible to find information through relatives who moved 
away.  In the case of Volhynia Germans, the EWZ documents contain 
information about birthplaces and ancestors.

Dick Stein
Calgary, Canada



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Maik Senninger" <maiksenninger at live.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:25 AM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;My ancestors at the area of 
Tomaszow-Mazowiecki











Hello. My Name is Maik Senninger.

I am from germany and searching for my ancestors at the middle of poland.
Jerry (Frank), thanks for your invitation.
It is a long time ago, that I learn english at school. But I think it is 
enough for understanding.

My Grandparents Eugen Senninger *1925 Wydrakow near Tomaszow and Elsa 
Senninger nee Zimpel * 1924 Wola-Wiaderna near Tomaszow
are running away from Poland to the Mark Brandenburg after the end of the 
second world war.

Some members of my family like Pranke, emigrated at 1928 to Wapella, 
Saskatchewan, Canada.

Now a list with the names how I search. Not all of the names are 
familymembers of the first line,
but all the familys are lived together at the same villages and are related 
by marriage.



Some of the villages are: Syski; Blogie; Sepno; Wydrakow; Bukowiec; 
Wola-Wiaderna;



This villages are all between Tomaszow Maz. and Petrikau

Senninger; Zimpel; Schultz; Pranke; Wuschke; Ickert; Geisler; Kebsch; 
Lerben; Mogdans; Zelmer; Bartsch; Titschowski; Friske;

Arndt; Albrecht; Kempin; Beutler; Wolter; Klinger; Fleischer; Makus, 
Fuhrmann; Gabert; Behr; Jagusch; Lorentz; Ruschewski;

Liebel; Matzanke; Neumann; Petrich; Pufal; Ristok; Rode; Kossmann; Link; 
Splett; Hoffmann; Wodke; Hahn; Schlender; Wildemann; Majer;


At the german list www.mittelpolen.de we work together to built a network. 
Our problem is that the Churchbooks of Tomaszow Mazowiecki are destroyed
at the end of the war.

I hope we can work together to filled this hole with informations.

Have a nice day.

Maik ( Senninger )










Posteingang immer voll? Der erste Speicher, der mitw?chst: Unbegrenzter 
Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!

_________________________________________________________________
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xIE8_MSN3
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From maurmike1 at verizon.net  Thu May  7 09:09:24 2009
From: maurmike1 at verizon.net (MIKE MCHENRY)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:09:24 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <4CD1BCF005404CDFAD185627D429BC98@Desktop>
References: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<4CD1BCF005404CDFAD185627D429BC98@Desktop>
Message-ID: <017301c9cf2e$3102c480$93084d80$@net>

The USA passed the Genetic Information Non Discrimination Act last year
http://www.genome.gov/24519851 

 
MIKE



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Earl.Schultz
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 2:04 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing

 I think Otto's comments are useful to address this common and unfounded
fear that one's DNA will be used for some ulterior motive.  In fact, the
y-DNA does not contain any personal characteristics of an individual, just
the DNA that determines the male gender.  I think it is similar for mtDNA.
This cannot be used to tell if I am at a higher risk of getting cancer, for
example.  Otto's very deep test may provide that sort of information but not
the standard y-DNA test that many of us get.  Even in Otto's case, if an
organization were to try to profit from the DNA information they have they
likely wouldn't stay in business very long since this would be an illegal
practice, not that it can't happen.  It is not likely.

Further, I am aware that in Canada and I believe in the USA as well, it is
illegal for organizations to use DNA results to disadvantage certain
individuals or groups so insurance companies cannot do, legally, what Jutta
is suggesting.  If they wanted to they would have to have far more than
y-DNA tests.

If you wish to learn more about yourself and to aid your genealogy research,
albeit in a very small way, then the few hundred dollars for the test is
well worthwhile.  For those of us who have had it done, I think I can safely
say that we do not fear our DNA being used against us.  If my insurance
company wanted to do that, they have only to search my garbage for tossed
kleenex, hair, drinking bottles and cups.  We leave behind our DNA wherever
we go and I'm still waiting for someone to clone me.

Earl
 
------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:37:12 -0400
From: Otto <otto at schienke.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
To: GPV List <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Cc: Jutta Dennerlein <Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de>
Message-ID: <02832818-BDF0-4B4C-8101-E2B5C3E27AE9 at schienke.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	format=flowed;
delsp=yes

Good morning All,
i've been following the thread on DNA testing since it was introduced  
about a week ago and detect a common fear and suspicion of a subject  
not understood.  I liken it to fear of vulnerability some have of  
undressing in the doctor's office. . . I say better there than with  
undertaker's hands.

Legally, you own your DNA (code) the same as you own your body and  
your life. That has always been an issue of international law, who  
owns the body? You? or the State? In my country I own my body and have  
laws to support my stand on the issue.

-snip-

A haplogroup number is not the actual DNA code generating it.  (one  
must choose to release the code generating the numbers)
I feel knowing "where to look" gives me a leg up on the challenge.
I own my DNA information and choose how much and to whom I release it.  
Like money, one does not indiscriminately leave it laying around in  
public places.

As one SGGEE researcher recently stated to me, "Very very cool!!!! You  
knocked out years of research for me in one fell swoop. Chances are  
we're related." (probably are, based on indicated location, stature,  
and facial structure) My own reply to the testing was the same.


. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



------------------------------

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Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html


End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 12
***************************************************


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From jguasch at fastmail.net  Thu May  7 09:48:56 2009
From: jguasch at fastmail.net (Joyce Guasch)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:48:56 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;
	My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
In-Reply-To: <5594EFEC0C214CE79B7F234F7269C894@RichardPC>
References: <BLU142-W85B5D60064C9865E9710EAC670@phx.gbl>
	<5594EFEC0C214CE79B7F234F7269C894@RichardPC>
Message-ID: <5A15706B95B343C1A00F27151A4DE05C@desktop2008>

My family came from the Lublin, Wlodawa area. I've reviewed and extracted
records from an EWZ film and twelve of your names below appear in that area.
These records were from 1940, Dubeczno and some surrounding areas. I found
Wutzke and Zimple both connected to Petrikau. If you think this could be of
help to you, I suggest you review EWZ58, National Archives Film B090, LDS
film 1796780. If you contact me directly, I may be able to send you a file
containing this information. 

Joyce Welke Guasch
jguasch at fastmail.net
Springfield, OR USA
formerly Rainier, OR USA
Researching Welke, Zimmerman,
Jesse, Gurke, Ratz, Lentz, Pusch, Arndt
of East Poland




-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Stein
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:47 AM
To: Maik Senninger; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;My ancestors at the area of
Tomaszow-Mazowiecki

I know from perusing the Rozyszcze parish records (western part of Volhynia)
in the late 1800's than many of the German settlers came from Petrikau and
Tomaszow parishes.  Many of your surnames are found in Rozyszcze parish. 
For example, some Wuschke families from Syskie settled in Helenow, near
Torczyn.  I know you are interested in the people who remained near Tomaszow
but sometimes it is possible to find information through relatives who moved
away.  In the case of Volhynia Germans, the EWZ documents contain
information about birthplaces and ancestors.

Dick Stein
Calgary, Canada



----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Senninger" <maiksenninger at live.de>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:25 AM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;My ancestors at the area of
Tomaszow-Mazowiecki











Hello. My Name is Maik Senninger.

I am from germany and searching for my ancestors at the middle of poland.
Jerry (Frank), thanks for your invitation.
It is a long time ago, that I learn english at school. But I think it is
enough for understanding.

My Grandparents Eugen Senninger *1925 Wydrakow near Tomaszow and Elsa
Senninger nee Zimpel * 1924 Wola-Wiaderna near Tomaszow are running away
from Poland to the Mark Brandenburg after the end of the second world war.

Some members of my family like Pranke, emigrated at 1928 to Wapella,
Saskatchewan, Canada.

Now a list with the names how I search. Not all of the names are
familymembers of the first line, but all the familys are lived together at
the same villages and are related by marriage.



Some of the villages are: Syski; Blogie; Sepno; Wydrakow; Bukowiec;
Wola-Wiaderna;



This villages are all between Tomaszow Maz. and Petrikau

Senninger; Zimpel; Schultz; Pranke; Wuschke; Ickert; Geisler; Kebsch; 
Lerben; Mogdans; Zelmer; Bartsch; Titschowski; Friske;

Arndt; Albrecht; Kempin; Beutler; Wolter; Klinger; Fleischer; Makus, 
Fuhrmann; Gabert; Behr; Jagusch; Lorentz; Ruschewski;

Liebel; Matzanke; Neumann; Petrich; Pufal; Ristok; Rode; Kossmann; Link; 
Splett; Hoffmann; Wodke; Hahn; Schlender; Wildemann; Majer;


At the german list www.mittelpolen.de we work together to built a network. 
Our problem is that the Churchbooks of Tomaszow Mazowiecki are destroyed
at the end of the war.

I hope we can work together to filled this hole with informations.

Have a nice day.

Maik ( Senninger )










Posteingang immer voll? Der erste Speicher, der mitw?chst: Unbegrenzter 
Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!

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http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xIE8_MSN3
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From otto at schienke.com  Thu May  7 11:17:22 2009
From: otto at schienke.com (Otto)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:17:22 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <017301c9cf2e$3102c480$93084d80$@net>
References: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<4CD1BCF005404CDFAD185627D429BC98@Desktop>
	<017301c9cf2e$3102c480$93084d80$@net>
Message-ID: <178E6540-07C2-4BF7-B023-C5F540AC9FC3@schienke.com>

Thanks Mike,
I'll flag your message for reference.

My E-letter to the group on DNA testing yesterday was basic, to say  
the least, to keep focused on the essentials and expand later on each  
topic if need be.
Understanding genetic genealogy in itself is not difficult. The  
learning curve is involved with learning the language of the  
discipline. With patience, progress can be a refreshing experience.

I should have included the following items yesterday since they are  
useful to the researcher preparing to enter the field of "genetic  
genealogy."

1. Yesterday I did not differentiate between "SNP haplogroups" and  
"STR haplotypes", this downloadable PDF paper should suffice. To test  
for STR's or SNP's is a decision based on desired results necessary in  
the end. What results are you looking for from the test of your DNA is  
the question to be asked. http://www.clanewing.org/DNA_Project/DNA_Articles/DNA_Articles/ForTheFlustered.pdf
(I would download the paper as a PDF file, one can never tell how long  
it will be available on the Web)

2. One of the better resources on the Web is the following site,  
suggested by my son, listing most of the companies and their blogs.  
Even if you have not been tested, this site can clarify some of the  
unknown to a beginner:
http://dna-forums.org/

On May 7, 2009, at 12:09 PM, MIKE MCHENRY wrote:

> The USA passed the Genetic Information Non Discrimination Act last  
> year
> http://www.genome.gov/24519851
>
>
> MIKE
>


. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Thu May  7 12:11:31 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing - THE NEAR FUTURE
In-Reply-To: <178E6540-07C2-4BF7-B023-C5F540AC9FC3@schienke.com>
Message-ID: <965842.20111.qm@web55305.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

All of this discussion on DNA testing is great. Maybe I'm opening a new can of worms here but it is likely that in the next 10 years the type of testing you do for genealogical purposes will become rather obsolete. Technology continues to advance and they want to reach the point where a complete genome sequence can be done for $1000 and have the results in a matter of days or weeks. I only say this to let you know what is coming down the road and when this happens this will become the premiere method for doing genealogical testing. You will no longer be limited to mitochondrial or Y-chromosome markers. Literally any piece of DNA can be used to potentially link you to any other person with whom you may have a common ancestor if you can find a particular marker sequence to link to your line of interest.

The National Cancer Institute is pushing forward to develop high throughput genome? sequencing to study specific types of tumors. These efforts are helping to pave the way to make this affordable for the common person. Of course along with that you may find which diseases you are vulnerable to.

Karl

-


      

From cris.howe at gmail.com  Thu May  7 12:42:36 2009
From: cris.howe at gmail.com (Cris Howe)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:42:36 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing - THE NEAR FUTURE
In-Reply-To: <965842.20111.qm@web55305.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <178E6540-07C2-4BF7-B023-C5F540AC9FC3@schienke.com>
	<965842.20111.qm@web55305.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d9691e7b0905071242l5a5be2efm5e31b9807c3943e9@mail.gmail.com>

Great discussion.    I certainly don't disagree with what Karl has said,
but.....I would encourage all the guys to do as detailed a test on their Y
chromosome as they can afford.   The potential is huge right now, and some
of us may not be here in ten years.   Also, the Y chromosome is very small,
and unlikely to reveal any health information.   Find a project trying to
connect men with the same surname, and consider signing up.

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> All of this discussion on DNA testing is great. Maybe I'm opening a new can
> of worms here but it is likely that in the next 10 years the type of testing
> you do for genealogical purposes will become rather obsolete. Technology
> continues to advance and they want to reach the point where a complete
> genome sequence can be done for $1000 and have the results in a matter of
> days or weeks. I only say this to let you know what is coming down the road
> and when this happens this will become the premiere method for doing
> genealogical testing. You will no longer be limited to mitochondrial or
> Y-chromosome markers. Literally any piece of DNA can be used to potentially
> link you to any other person with whom you may have a common ancestor if you
> can find a particular marker sequence to link to your line of interest.
>
> The National Cancer Institute is pushing forward to develop high throughput
> genome  sequencing to study specific types of tumors. These efforts are
> helping to pave the way to make this affordable for the common person. Of
> course along with that you may find which diseases you are vulnerable to.
>
> Karl
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>


From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Thu May  7 13:26:29 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:26:29 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Looking for Laura Reich
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1241722802.27837.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1241722802.27837.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <C2BBA51E653E4C31B79B0A1B896C8D30@Desktop>

 
I have been trying to reach Laura Reich who was researching Reich and
Leichnitz and all my contact information is no longer valid.  If anyone
knows how to contact her, please let me know privately.  One of her
brickwalls has now come down.

Thanks,
Earl



From maiksenninger at live.de  Fri May  8 08:22:03 2009
From: maiksenninger at live.de (Maik Senninger)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:22:03 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to America ?
Message-ID: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>


Hi. 

 

I have one question. 

In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/ Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.

I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.

 

29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 

He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship WEIMAR under english flag.

At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New York.

 

My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the arrival documents of Ellis Island.

I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 

 

Is there a chance that he goes to Canada from Glasgow and where I can find other informations.

 

My problem is, I have the names and birthdates of my ancestors like August or his father Friedrich but I did'nt know, where her birthplaces.

I hope I find it in the arrival Documents of this Julius Senninger.

 

Thanks for help and best regards.

 

Maik ( Senninger )

_________________________________________________________________
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xWLHM2
Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!

From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Fri May  8 10:34:51 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:34:51 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to America
	?
In-Reply-To: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001501c9d003$4b144a30$e13cde90$@net>

Hi Maik,

Castle Garden Immigration center in New York at URL
http://www.castlegarden.org/ shows the following on your Julius Senninger.

First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Ship Origin (Port) Origin
(Ctry) Origin (Prov) Origin (Town) 

JULIUS SENNINGER PAINTER 27 M 17 May 1892 CIRCASSIA GLASGOW & MOVILLE
GERMANY NOT AVAILABLE U

It is difficult to copy and paste this info so that it is readable, but you
can go to the site and look up the information yourself.  Looks like the
Origin (Town) is shown as U, or unknown.  So, not much help for you.  But,
Julius did make it to New York.

Good luck,

Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Maik
Senninger
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:22 AM
To: SGGEE Mailingliste
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to America ?


Hi. 

 

I have one question. 

In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/
Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.

I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.

 

29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 

He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship
WEIMAR under english flag.

At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New
York.

 

My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the
arrival documents of Ellis Island.

I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 

 

Is there a chance that he goes to Canada from Glasgow and where I can find
other informations.

 

My problem is, I have the names and birthdates of my ancestors like August
or his father Friedrich but I did'nt know, where her birthplaces.

I hope I find it in the arrival Documents of this Julius Senninger.

 

Thanks for help and best regards.

 

Maik ( Senninger )

_________________________________________________________________
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xWLHM2
Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From sofasurferlinux at charter.net  Fri May  8 11:55:30 2009
From: sofasurferlinux at charter.net (daryl)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 14:55:30 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
Message-ID: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>

My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, Michigan. 
They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day long 
but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to know 
where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
Thanks


From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Fri May  8 12:22:07 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 13:22:07 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
In-Reply-To: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
References: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
Message-ID: <d0f1a8f6d24d.4a0431ff@shaw.ca>

What spelling options have you considered.? There are dozens of Janiski / Jankiskis which sound similar at Ellis Island.? The also could have arrived by way of a Canadian port.? Etc.


Jerry



----- Original Message -----
From: daryl <sofasurferlinux at charter.net>
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009 12:58 pm
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, 
> Michigan. 
> They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day 
> long 
> but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to 
> know 
> where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
> Thanks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Fri May  8 12:39:14 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:39:14 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
In-Reply-To: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
References: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4A048A62.3030401@warnerengineering.com>

Daryl,

When looking at any database, you need to keep your ideas of correct 
spelling of a surname out of the search.   It is many times easier to 
enter the given name of a passenger and include no surname, but instead 
list the given name of someone that you know was traveling with the 
first person.    Unusual first names are the best and easiest, since 
names like Johann and Anna are going to give you way to many names to 
look at.   If the given names are common, however, you may reduce the 
number of returns by using only the first few letters of the surname in 
the search.   Even here, you need to think hard about what letter 
combinations might have been written down by the person taking the 
information on the ship or at the port.  For instance, on one census, my 
maternal grandmother, who maiden name is Sihl is shown with the name 
Seel.   My wife also looked and looked for one of her Watson relatives, 
and finally found him with the name Wotton in the census record.  And 
there are plenty of worse examples than that in the records.  

Gary Warner

daryl wrote:
> My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, Michigan. 
> They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day long 
> but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to know 
> where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From ejadam at yahoo.com  Fri May  8 13:18:48 2009
From: ejadam at yahoo.com (E. Adam)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Stalin-era gulag survivors
Message-ID: <271173.1828.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hello all: The message below arrived second-hand in my InBox. If anyone can help her with her research, please reply directly to her.

Edie Adam
Virginia, USA

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Pam:
 
Pardon the brief introduction. I am a college professor in Iowa researching an English-language documentary on GULAG survivors now in the United States. To date, I have interviewed a number of forced labor camp survivors from the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, but am looking for survivors from the Stalin era when the GULAGs were at their largest. My interest in the subject arose during a Fulbright study program in Russia two years ago. Our itinerary include a visit to the Perm-36 Memorial.
 
During a recent presentation at Muskegon Community College, your organization (AHSGR) was suggested to me by a member of the Southwest Michigan chapter. Could you possibly put me in touch with any such survivors? Their stories need to be documented on video in English language while there are still survivors among us. As the years pass, there are fewer and fewer of them, as you know.
 
I am hoping that you will be able to provide some assistance. I would be most grateful.
 
Sincerely,
 
Gale Smetana
Assistant Professor
Communications Media
AEGON Endowed Chair 2007-2008
Kirkwood Community College
Cedar Rapids, IA
(319) 398-7163
gsmetan at kirkwood.edu


      


From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Fri May  8 12:41:28 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:41:28 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to America
	?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1241809203.3792.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1241809203.3792.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <5448B8F84B644BCF82BCACAB43D30C6B@Desktop>

Hi Maik,
If Julius Senniger's ship record has him coming from Plozk and if he was
Evangelical Lutheran, then the churches in that area is where I'd start.
These churches, Lipno, Rypin, Plock and Sierpc, are being extracted and the
information is being put into SGGEE databases as it is done.  It looks like
Friedrich and daughter Juliane are already in our Pedigree database although
I can't see the location.  That information can come from SGGEE.

I have checked the Michalki-Rypin parish and the Sennigers were not there
prior to 1866.

Hope others can help more.

Earl

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:22:03 +0200
From: Maik Senninger <maiksenninger at live.de>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to
	America ?
To: SGGEE Mailingliste <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Hi. 

 I have one question. 

In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/
Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.

I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.

 29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 

He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship
WEIMAR under english flag.

At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New
York.

 
My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the
arrival documents of Ellis Island.

I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 

Is there a chance that he goes to Canada from Glasgow and where I can find
other informations.
 
My problem is, I have the names and birthdates of my ancestors like August
or his father Friedrich but I did'nt know, where her birthplaces.

I hope I find it in the arrival Documents of this Julius Senninger.

Thanks for help and best regards.

 Maik ( Senninger )

_________________________________________________________________
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xWLHM2



From GHBoehm at ish.de  Fri May  8 14:52:35 2009
From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 23:52:35 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to America
 ?
In-Reply-To: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A04A9A3.5080106@ish.de>

Maik Senninger schrieb:
> In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/ Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.
>
> I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.
>
>  
>
> 29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 
>
> He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship WEIMAR under english flag.
>
> At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New York.
>
>  
>
> My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the arrival documents of Ellis Island.
>
> I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 
>   
Hallo Maik,
vor und neben Ellis Island gab es noch eine zweite Einwanderungsbeh?rde 
im New Yorker Battery Park (an der S?dspitze von Manhattan, Homepage 
www.castlegarden.org ) und dort ist er auch zu finden:

    First name: Julius
    Last name: SENNINGER
    Occupation: painter
    Age: 27
    Sex: M
    Literacy: Y
    Ship: Circassia
    Arrived: 17 May 1892
    Origin: Germany
    Port: Glasgow & Moville
    Last Residence: ---
    Destination: New York
    Plan: Unknown
    Passage: Unknown

Leider erfahren Sie auch da nicht mehr als Sie schon wissen - nur, dass 
er wirklich in New York angekommen ist. Moville, wo die Circassia ( 
www.immigrantships.net/1800/circassia830219.html ) sicher den gr??ten 
Teil ihrer menschlichen Fracht aufgenommen hat, ist eine Hafenstadt im 
Norden von Irland, etwa gegen?ber von Glasgow und dem Firth of Clyde.

Gr??e vom Niederrhein,
G?nther B?hm


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Fri May  8 08:41:06 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 08:41:06 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to America
 ?
In-Reply-To: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A045292.9000906@warnerengineering.com>

Maik,

I am sending you the New York passenger list for Julius's arrival from 
Glasgow in 1892,   Sadly it does not contain much information that you 
do not know about already.   The attachments should not reach the rest 
of the mail list, but stranger things have happened.   I do not see 
Julius in the 1900 USA census.   Do you know where he was living in 
1900, and who he was married to?

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Maik Senninger wrote:
> Hi. 
>
>  
>
> I have one question. 
>
> In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/ Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.
>
> I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.
>
>  
>
> 29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 
>
> He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship WEIMAR under english flag.
>
> At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New York.
>
>  
>
> My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the arrival documents of Ellis Island.
>
> I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 
>
>  
>
> Is there a chance that he goes to Canada from Glasgow and where I can find other informations.
>
>  
>
> My problem is, I have the names and birthdates of my ancestors like August or his father Friedrich but I did'nt know, where her birthplaces.
>
> I hope I find it in the arrival Documents of this Julius Senninger.
>
>  
>
> Thanks for help and best regards.
>
>  
>
> Maik ( Senninger )
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xWLHM2
> Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   
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From roseingram at shaw.ca  Fri May  8 16:32:46 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 16:32:46 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
References: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
Message-ID: <005d01c9d035$4b1018c0$6601a8c0@duocore>

Daryl,

Were they in USA in 1900?  The 1900 census gives year of immigration.
The 1910 census also gives year of immigration.

Rose Ingram 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: daryl 
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:55 AM
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists


  My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, Michigan. 
  They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day long 
  but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to know 
  where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
  Thanks

  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

From GHBoehm at ish.de  Fri May  8 16:46:15 2009
From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=)
Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 01:46:15 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
In-Reply-To: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
References: <4A048022.7020301@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4A04C447.2040305@ish.de>

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: daryl
   To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
   Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:55 AM
   Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists


   My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, Michigan.
   They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day long
   but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to know
   where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
   Thanks


Hello Daryl,
are you sure about the correct spelling?
The spelling JANISKY doesn't exist in Poland. How about JANITZKY, JANITZKI or JANICKI? At the first go I found 9 
JANITZKY from Russia in Castlegarden.org and 8 in ellisisland.org.

G?nther


From busybeelady at hotmail.com  Fri May  8 17:22:17 2009
From: busybeelady at hotmail.com (Carol Hunter)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 19:22:17 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72,
	Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1241822936.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.64.1241822936.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <COL112-W566FDEDC00260B55DA77B8A0650@phx.gbl>


Unsubscribe please.

Thank you.


 
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 17
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 15:48:56 -0700
> 
> Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
> ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Can't find Janiskee ship lists (Jerry Frank)
> 2. Re: Can't find Janiskee ship lists (Gary Warner)
> 3. Seeking Stalin-era gulag survivors (E. Adam)
> 4. Re: Emigration of Julius Senninger to America ? (Earl.Schultz)
> 5. Re: Emigration of Julius Senninger to America ? (G?nther B?hm)
> 6. Re: Emigration of Julius Senninger to America ? (Gary Warner)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 13:22:07 -0600
> From: Jerry Frank <FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
> To: daryl <sofasurferlinux at charter.net>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <d0f1a8f6d24d.4a0431ff at shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> What spelling options have you considered.? There are dozens of Janiski / Jankiskis which sound similar at Ellis Island.? The also could have arrived by way of a Canadian port.? Etc.
> 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: daryl <sofasurferlinux at charter.net>
> Date: Friday, May 8, 2009 12:58 pm
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> 
> > My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, 
> > Michigan. 
> > They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day 
> > long 
> > but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to 
> > know 
> > where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
> > Thanks
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:39:14 -0700
> From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Can't find Janiskee ship lists
> To: daryl <sofasurferlinux at charter.net>
> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID: <4A048A62.3030401 at warnerengineering.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Daryl,
> 
> When looking at any database, you need to keep your ideas of correct 
> spelling of a surname out of the search. It is many times easier to 
> enter the given name of a passenger and include no surname, but instead 
> list the given name of someone that you know was traveling with the 
> first person. Unusual first names are the best and easiest, since 
> names like Johann and Anna are going to give you way to many names to 
> look at. If the given names are common, however, you may reduce the 
> number of returns by using only the first few letters of the surname in 
> the search. Even here, you need to think hard about what letter 
> combinations might have been written down by the person taking the 
> information on the ship or at the port. For instance, on one census, my 
> maternal grandmother, who maiden name is Sihl is shown with the name 
> Seel. My wife also looked and looked for one of her Watson relatives, 
> and finally found him with the name Wotton in the census record. And 
> there are plenty of worse examples than that in the records. 
> 
> Gary Warner
> 
> daryl wrote:
> > My wifes ancestors were Janiskees. They lived in Bay City, Michigan. 
> > They migrated from Poland. I can find census information all day long 
> > but I am not able to locate anything in ship lists. I'd like to know 
> > where they came from, when, and where they arrived at.
> > Thanks
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "E. Adam" <ejadam at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Seeking Stalin-era gulag survivors
> To: SGGEE <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <271173.1828.qm at web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> Hello all: The message below arrived second-hand in my InBox. If anyone can help her with her research, please reply directly to her.
> 
> Edie Adam
> Virginia, USA
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Pam:
> 
> Pardon the brief introduction. I am a college professor in Iowa researching an English-language documentary on GULAG survivors now in the United States. To date, I have interviewed a number of forced labor camp survivors from the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, but am looking for survivors from the Stalin era when the GULAGs were at their largest. My interest in the subject arose during a Fulbright study program in Russia two years ago. Our itinerary include a visit to the Perm-36 Memorial.
> 
> During a recent presentation at Muskegon Community College, your organization (AHSGR) was suggested to me by a member of the Southwest Michigan chapter. Could you possibly put me in touch with any such survivors? Their stories need to be documented on video in English language while there are still survivors among us. As the years pass, there are fewer and fewer of them, as you know.
> 
> I am hoping that you will be able to provide some assistance. I would be most grateful.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Gale Smetana
> Assistant Professor
> Communications Media
> AEGON Endowed Chair 2007-2008
> Kirkwood Community College
> Cedar Rapids, IA
> (319) 398-7163
> gsmetan at kirkwood.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:41:28 -0500
> From: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to
> America ?
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <5448B8F84B644BCF82BCACAB43D30C6B at Desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi Maik,
> If Julius Senniger's ship record has him coming from Plozk and if he was
> Evangelical Lutheran, then the churches in that area is where I'd start.
> These churches, Lipno, Rypin, Plock and Sierpc, are being extracted and the
> information is being put into SGGEE databases as it is done. It looks like
> Friedrich and daughter Juliane are already in our Pedigree database although
> I can't see the location. That information can come from SGGEE.
> 
> I have checked the Michalki-Rypin parish and the Sennigers were not there
> prior to 1866.
> 
> Hope others can help more.
> 
> Earl
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:22:03 +0200
> From: Maik Senninger <maiksenninger at live.de>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to
> America ?
> To: SGGEE Mailingliste <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU142-W28F66A1D1D55C586966421AC640 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Hi. 
> 
> I have one question. 
> 
> In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/
> Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.
> 
> I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.
> 
> 29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 
> 
> He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship
> WEIMAR under english flag.
> 
> At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New
> York.
> 
> 
> My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the
> arrival documents of Ellis Island.
> 
> I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 
> 
> Is there a chance that he goes to Canada from Glasgow and where I can find
> other informations.
> 
> My problem is, I have the names and birthdates of my ancestors like August
> or his father Friedrich but I did'nt know, where her birthplaces.
> 
> I hope I find it in the arrival Documents of this Julius Senninger.
> 
> Thanks for help and best regards.
> 
> Maik ( Senninger )
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xWLHM2
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 23:52:35 +0200
> From: G?nther B?hm <GHBoehm at ish.de>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to
> America ?
> To: SGGEE Mailingliste <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <4A04A9A3.5080106 at ish.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Maik Senninger schrieb:
> > In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/ Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.
> >
> > I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.
> >
> > 
> >
> > 29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 
> >
> > He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship WEIMAR under english flag.
> >
> > At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New York.
> >
> > 
> >
> > My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the arrival documents of Ellis Island.
> >
> > I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 
> > 
> Hallo Maik,
> vor und neben Ellis Island gab es noch eine zweite Einwanderungsbeh?rde 
> im New Yorker Battery Park (an der S?dspitze von Manhattan, Homepage 
> www.castlegarden.org ) und dort ist er auch zu finden:
> 
> First name: Julius
> Last name: SENNINGER
> Occupation: painter
> Age: 27
> Sex: M
> Literacy: Y
> Ship: Circassia
> Arrived: 17 May 1892
> Origin: Germany
> Port: Glasgow & Moville
> Last Residence: ---
> Destination: New York
> Plan: Unknown
> Passage: Unknown
> 
> Leider erfahren Sie auch da nicht mehr als Sie schon wissen - nur, dass 
> er wirklich in New York angekommen ist. Moville, wo die Circassia ( 
> www.immigrantships.net/1800/circassia830219.html ) sicher den gr??ten 
> Teil ihrer menschlichen Fracht aufgenommen hat, ist eine Hafenstadt im 
> Norden von Irland, etwa gegen?ber von Glasgow und dem Firth of Clyde.
> 
> Gr??e vom Niederrhein,
> G?nther B?hm
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 08:41:06 -0700
> From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Emigration of Julius Senninger to
> America ?
> To: Maik Senninger <maiksenninger at live.de>
> Cc: SGGEE Mailingliste <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Message-ID: <4A045292.9000906 at warnerengineering.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Maik,
> 
> I am sending you the New York passenger list for Julius's arrival from 
> Glasgow in 1892, Sadly it does not contain much information that you 
> do not know about already. The attachments should not reach the rest 
> of the mail list, but stranger things have happened. I do not see 
> Julius in the 1900 USA census. Do you know where he was living in 
> 1900, and who he was married to?
> 
> Gary Warner
> SGGEE
> 
> Maik Senninger wrote:
> > Hi. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > I have one question. 
> >
> > In the year 1892, an Julius Senninger * 1865 emigrated from Plozk/ Russish-Poland in the north of Lodz to America.
> >
> > I think he lives her but it did'nt was his birthplace.
> >
> > 
> >
> > 29.04.1892 he started from the Harbor of Hamburg/ Germany. 
> >
> > He travelled to the Harbor of Leith( Glasgow) in Scotland with the ship WEIMAR under english flag.
> >
> > At the passenger list he give the information he want to travel again to New York.
> >
> > 
> >
> > My problem is I did'nt find his name again at passengerlists or at the arrival documents of Ellis Island.
> >
> > I think he was a brother of my grandgrandgrandfather August Senninger. 
> >
> > 
> >
> > Is there a chance that he goes to Canada from Glasgow and where I can find other informations.
> >
> > 
> >
> > My problem is, I have the names and birthdates of my ancestors like August or his father Friedrich but I did'nt know, where her birthplaces.
> >
> > I hope I find it in the arrival Documents of this Julius Senninger.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Thanks for help and best regards.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Maik ( Senninger )
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xWLHM2
> > Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> > 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 50553 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090508/28cfa520/JuliusSeninger1892shiprecord.jpeg
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the:
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html
> 
> 
> End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 17
> ***************************************************

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From cmduff at redwing.net  Fri May  8 18:29:40 2009
From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 20:29:40 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zhitomir
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1241636403.18997.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1241636403.18997.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <4A04DC84.8000601@redwing.net>

Is there any relationship between the Rozyszcze and the Zhitomir 
parishes or districts?
>   


From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Fri May  8 18:55:17 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 19:55:17 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zhitomir
References: <mailman.1.1241636403.18997.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<4A04DC84.8000601@redwing.net>
Message-ID: <676D6EEB71C8487C90C92A3E3DB3918D@Marsh>

    Rozyszcze parish was formed in 1862 from part of Zhitomir parish.  Until that time Zhitomir parish encompassed the entire territory of Volhynia.  As the years went on and the German population increased in Volhynia, Rozyszcze parish itself was subdivided  to form additional parishes in the Volhynia.

John Marsch




----------------------------------------------------------
  From: Carol Duff 
  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:29 PM


  Is there any relationship between the Rozyszcze and the Zhitomir 
  parishes or districts?
    


From hgillespie at rogers.com  Sat May  9 06:32:17 2009
From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 06:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;
	My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
Message-ID: <777756.67495.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


May I also suggest you search the Immigration Database at Library and Archives Canada    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/immigration-1925/001012-100.01-e.php 

This is a database of entries from 1925-1935  and Pranke comes up with 12 entries - all in 1928.  

I checked www.canada411.ca   the telephone directory system - search for Pranke in Wapella or anywhere in Canada and located entries in Moosomin Saskatchewan - several of which are farms - so you could likely pick one of those.  One is an Adolph Pranke - a likely contact since it is an "old" name and possibly one of the arrivals.  Then check the Moosomin town and public library
 Wapella, Saskatchewan http://www.townofwapella.com/   has just over 400 people - Moosomin is a town of 2500  www.moosomin.com/  which may prove better information than the small town of Wapella.  Wapella is about 15 miles/20 km from Moosomin.  Your chances of finding people are good!

Good luck

Helen

--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net> wrote:

> From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction; My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
> To: "Maik Senninger" <maiksenninger at live.de>, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Received: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 3:47 PM
> I know from perusing the Rozyszcze
> parish records (western part of Volhynia) 
> in the late 1800's than many of the German settlers came
> from Petrikau and 
> Tomaszow parishes.? Many of your surnames are found in
> Rozyszcze parish. 
> For example, some Wuschke families from Syskie settled in
> Helenow, near 
> Torczyn.? I know you are interested in the people who
> remained near Tomaszow 
> but sometimes it is possible to find information through
> relatives who moved 
> away.? In the case of Volhynia Germans, the EWZ
> documents contain 
> information about birthplaces and ancestors.
> 
> Dick Stein
> Calgary, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Maik Senninger" <maiksenninger at live.de>
> To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:25 AM
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;My ancestors at
> the area of 
> Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello. My Name is Maik Senninger.
> 
> I am from germany and searching for my ancestors at the
> middle of poland.
> Jerry (Frank), thanks for your invitation.
> It is a long time ago, that I learn english at school. But
> I think it is 
> enough for understanding.
> 
> My Grandparents Eugen Senninger *1925 Wydrakow near
> Tomaszow and Elsa 
> Senninger nee Zimpel * 1924 Wola-Wiaderna near Tomaszow
> are running away from Poland to the Mark Brandenburg after
> the end of the 
> second world war.
> 
> Some members of my family like Pranke, emigrated at 1928 to
> Wapella, 
> Saskatchewan, Canada.
> 
> Now a list with the names how I search. Not all of the
> names are 
> familymembers of the first line,
> but all the familys are lived together at the same villages
> and are related 
> by marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the villages are: Syski; Blogie; Sepno; Wydrakow;
> Bukowiec; 
> Wola-Wiaderna;
> 
> 
> 
> This villages are all between Tomaszow Maz. and Petrikau
> 
> Senninger; Zimpel; Schultz; Pranke; Wuschke; Ickert;
> Geisler; Kebsch; 
> Lerben; Mogdans; Zelmer; Bartsch; Titschowski; Friske;
> 
> Arndt; Albrecht; Kempin; Beutler; Wolter; Klinger;
> Fleischer; Makus, 
> Fuhrmann; Gabert; Behr; Jagusch; Lorentz; Ruschewski;
> 
> Liebel; Matzanke; Neumann; Petrich; Pufal; Ristok; Rode;
> Kossmann; Link; 
> Splett; Hoffmann; Wodke; Hahn; Schlender; Wildemann;
> Majer;
> 
> 
> At the german list www.mittelpolen.de we work together to
> built a network. 
> Our problem is that the Churchbooks of Tomaszow Mazowiecki
> are destroyed
> at the end of the war.
> 
> I hope we can work together to filled this hole with
> informations.
> 
> Have a nice day.
> 
> Maik ( Senninger )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posteingang immer voll? Der erste Speicher, der mitw?chst:
> Unbegrenzter 
> Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xIE8_MSN3
> Hol Dir den neuen Internet Explorer 8 mit MSN-Toolbar
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 



From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Sat May  9 11:14:12 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 12:14:12 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;
 My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
References: <777756.67495.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50EBAFC7500C4B56AFD554F94083AAB3@Marsh>

Maik:
    I have a record of a Gottfried Wuschke whose wife was Rosine Richert.  They had at least 2 sons Gustav born 1893 in Tomaschewka, Lublin and Ludwig born 1901 also in the Lublin area.
    Both sons lived in Saskatchewan Canada.
To add to Helen Gillespie's information, several Pranke names are recorded in the history book for the Wapella area.  Unfortunately I do not have that book in my possession to determine what it says.  The earliest date recorded is 1936

Are you interested in the information I have on the Wuschke family?

John Marsch
aus Saskatchewan Canada

-----------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Helen Gillespie 
  To: Maik Senninger ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org ; Richard Stein 
  Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 7:32 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction; My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
  May I also suggest you search the Immigration Database at Library and Archives Canada    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/immigration-1925/001012-100.01-e.php 

  This is a database of entries from 1925-1935  and Pranke comes up with 12 entries - all in 1928.  

  I checked www.canada411.ca   the telephone directory system - search for Pranke in Wapella or anywhere in Canada and located entries in Moosomin Saskatchewan - several of which are farms - so you could likely pick one of those.  One is an Adolph Pranke - a likely contact since it is an "old" name and possibly one of the arrivals.  Then check the Moosomin town and public library
   Wapella, Saskatchewan http://www.townofwapella.com/   has just over 400 people - Moosomin is a town of 2500  www.moosomin.com/  which may prove better information than the small town of Wapella.  Wapella is about 15 miles/20 km from Moosomin.  Your chances of finding people are good!

  Good luck

  Helen

  --- On Thu, 5/7/09, Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net> wrote:

  > From: Richard Stein <ra_stein at telus.net>
  > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction; My ancestors at the area of Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
  > To: "Maik Senninger" <maiksenninger at live.de>, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
  > Received: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 3:47 PM
  > I know from perusing the Rozyszcze
  > parish records (western part of Volhynia) 
  > in the late 1800's than many of the German settlers came
  > from Petrikau and 
  > Tomaszow parishes. Many of your surnames are found in
  > Rozyszcze parish. 
  > For example, some Wuschke families from Syskie settled in
  > Helenow, near 
  > Torczyn. I know you are interested in the people who
  > remained near Tomaszow 
  > but sometimes it is possible to find information through
  > relatives who moved 
  > away. In the case of Volhynia Germans, the EWZ
  > documents contain 
  > information about birthplaces and ancestors.
  > 
  > Dick Stein
  > Calgary, Canada
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Maik Senninger" <maiksenninger at live.de>
  > To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
  > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:25 AM
  > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Introduction;My ancestors at
  > the area of 
  > Tomaszow-Mazowiecki
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Hello. My Name is Maik Senninger.
  > 
  > I am from germany and searching for my ancestors at the
  > middle of poland.
  > Jerry (Frank), thanks for your invitation.
  > It is a long time ago, that I learn english at school. But
  > I think it is 
  > enough for understanding.
  > 
  > My Grandparents Eugen Senninger *1925 Wydrakow near
  > Tomaszow and Elsa 
  > Senninger nee Zimpel * 1924 Wola-Wiaderna near Tomaszow
  > are running away from Poland to the Mark Brandenburg after
  > the end of the 
  > second world war.
  > 
  > Some members of my family like Pranke, emigrated at 1928 to
  > Wapella, 
  > Saskatchewan, Canada.
  > 
  > Now a list with the names how I search. Not all of the
  > names are 
  > familymembers of the first line,
  > but all the familys are lived together at the same villages
  > and are related 
  > by marriage.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Some of the villages are: Syski; Blogie; Sepno; Wydrakow;
  > Bukowiec; 
  > Wola-Wiaderna;
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > This villages are all between Tomaszow Maz. and Petrikau
  > 
  > Senninger; Zimpel; Schultz; Pranke; Wuschke; Ickert;
  > Geisler; Kebsch; 
  > Lerben; Mogdans; Zelmer; Bartsch; Titschowski; Friske;
  > 
  > Arndt; Albrecht; Kempin; Beutler; Wolter; Klinger;
  > Fleischer; Makus, 
  > Fuhrmann; Gabert; Behr; Jagusch; Lorentz; Ruschewski;
  > 
  > Liebel; Matzanke; Neumann; Petrich; Pufal; Ristok; Rode;
  > Kossmann; Link; 
  > Splett; Hoffmann; Wodke; Hahn; Schlender; Wildemann;
  > Majer;
  > 
  > 
  > At the german list www.mittelpolen.de we work together to
  > built a network. 
  > Our problem is that the Churchbooks of Tomaszow Mazowiecki
  > are destroyed
  > at the end of the war.
  > 
  > I hope we can work together to filled this hole with
  > informations.
  > 
  > Have a nice day.
  > 
  > Maik ( Senninger )
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Posteingang immer voll? Der erste Speicher, der mitw?chst:
  > Unbegrenzter 
  > Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!
  > 
  > _________________________________________________________________
  > http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0905xIE8_MSN3
  > Hol Dir den neuen Internet Explorer 8 mit MSN-Toolbar
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
  > 


  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From wg7 at theunion.net  Sat May  9 18:12:34 2009
From: wg7 at theunion.net (Will Genz)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 18:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zhitomyr
Message-ID: <BF6CF876BA1F45179F76573D544D713E@authorizm3im63>

Among the topics in today's messages #4 and 5 was supposed to be something about Zhitomyr.  Unfortunately no text showed up. I was born in Zhitomyr in 1937 and my family lived there for several years before the liberation by the Wehrmacht and until the Russians drove the Germans back.  Our family was transported back to Ost Proussen by the military and thus escaped the wrath of the Red army. Can I help you in any way?  Will Grenz. wg7 at theunion.net.

From michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de  Sun May 10 05:05:06 2009
From: michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de (Michael Stockhausen)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 14:05:06 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lodz Trinitatis
Message-ID: <66D559E8AC2C46989C5E30532480EC9C@name54xk1bba18>

Hello,

Does anybody have any information on Ferdinand CERECKI, who died in Lodz Trnitatis in 1861 no. 20?
How old was he; was he a child or an adult?
Who were his parents?
Was he married, what was his spouse's name?

I am currently trying to help some possible distant cousins in the USA find their ancestors.
They tell me that their ancestor Ferdinand Wilhelm Cerecki was born on Oct 7, 1861 (calculated date) in (or near?) Lodz. His parents were Ferdinand (Fred = Gottfried?) and Carrie (Karolina?) Cerecki / Zeretzke.
I have found the birth of a Ferdinand Cerecki in Lodz in 1860, he was baptized Oct 7, 1860 (is Oct 7 a coincidence?). I have a copy, the parents' names don't match.

I have now seen, that in 1861 in Lodz a Ferdinand Cerecki has deceased. I could very well be that it was the boy who was born a year before. I would then know that he is not the person we are looking for.

Thanks for any assistance.

Kind regards
Michael


From roseingram at shaw.ca  Sun May 10 10:00:02 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:00:02 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lodz Trinitatis
References: <66D559E8AC2C46989C5E30532480EC9C@name54xk1bba18>
Message-ID: <000b01c9d190$c2f08c10$6601a8c0@duocore>

Hi Michael,

I have the Lodz films for 1860 and 1861.   I can check these entries later in the week.

Rose Ingram
  From: Michael Stockhausen 
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:05 AM


  Hello,

  Does anybody have any information on Ferdinand CERECKI, who died in Lodz Trnitatis in 1861 no. 20?
  How old was he; was he a child or an adult?
  Who were his parents?
  Was he married, what was his spouse's name?

  I am currently trying to help some possible distant cousins in the USA find their ancestors.
  They tell me that their ancestor Ferdinand Wilhelm Cerecki was born on Oct 7, 1861 (calculated date) in (or near?) Lodz. His parents were Ferdinand (Fred = Gottfried?) and Carrie (Karolina?) Cerecki / Zeretzke.
  I have found the birth of a Ferdinand Cerecki in Lodz in 1860, he was baptized Oct 7, 1860 (is Oct 7 a coincidence?). I have a copy, the parents' names don't match.

  I have now seen, that in 1861 in Lodz a Ferdinand Cerecki has deceased. I could very well be that it was the boy who was born a year before. I would then know that he is not the person we are looking for.

  Thanks for any assistance.

  Kind regards
  Michael



From walters.cathy at yahoo.com  Sun May 10 20:24:13 2009
From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com (Cathy Walters)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 20:24:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Is anyone interested in Steineke obit
Message-ID: <87425.54724.qm@web57402.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I can send obit,get pack of them from Sioux Falls SD in my email.I seem to remember someone doing Steineke in the group and thought I would pass this on to help out.Cathy in Elgin,MN  


  ALWAYS A ROSE 
       

From wbehr at bellsouth.net  Mon May 11 12:13:13 2009
From: wbehr at bellsouth.net (Bill Behrendt)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:13:13 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for father
Message-ID: <002501c9d26c$8892e900$0200000a@behrendtcdeb72>

My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record from the Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or his mother's last name at that time. This is because some years after his birth, his mother divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. The name Behrendt is the step-father's name that the family has used. Shortly before my father passed away he told my brother about the divorce but did not reveal what was his father's last name. 

>From what I can see the records from 1898 have not been microfilmed. How can I go about finding someone to research the Plock Evangelical Lutheran church books to locate and copy the birth record?

Here are the details I know:

Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland

Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei

Father's name: unknown 

I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth record.

Bill Behrendt


From denuma at rogers.com  Mon May 11 12:55:49 2009
From: denuma at rogers.com (Dave Neumann)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:55:49 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] NEUMANN, KLEBE, DOBERMAN & SCHLAK
Message-ID: <EB214F31893E438DB58BBAC67B20B98B@computer>

80 YEARS AGO TODAY

My father, Emil NEUMANN, and his bride Adolina, sailed on the ship, Empress
of Australia, departing Southampton, England for Quebec City, on May 11,
1929, 80 years ago today. Emil and Adolina had gone to Volhynia in March
(from south Ukraine - Zaporozhia) to complete their exit paperwork before
leaving by train from Korosten to Moscow, then from Moscow to Riga, Latvia,
where they sailed on the S. S. Baltriger to London England, with a brief
stop in Danzig along the way to pick up passengers. After a stay in the
Atlantic Park Hostel, near Southampton, they finally set off on this
trans-Atlantic Voyage. They landed at Quebec City, officially accepted as
landed immigrants on May 19th, and then set off for Saskatchewan by CPR
train, arriving in southern Saskatchewan around May 24-26.

 

I used the Library and Archives Canada site to check out what other
passengers on this ship were Germans from Russia, and I found three families
(ages in parenthesis):

DOBERMAN: Joseph (35) and Martha (38) and children, Reinhold (14), Robert
(12), Valentina (5) and Nina (2)

KLEBE: Ernst (49) and Anna (47) and children Jonathan (20), David (11),
Attilise (17), Aduna (16), and Johann (6)

SCHLAK: Friedrich (44) and Martha (51), and Vanada (15)

 

I am posting this message to see if any of these three families have
information about this journey on the Empress of Australia. I would be
interested in comparing notes and sharing srories.

  

 

David Neumann

Phone: 519-759-7885

 

 



From gary at warnerengineering.com  Mon May 11 13:06:58 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:06:58 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
 father
In-Reply-To: <002501c9d26c$8892e900$0200000a@behrendtcdeb72>
References: <002501c9d26c$8892e900$0200000a@behrendtcdeb72>
Message-ID: <4A088562.9000309@warnerengineering.com>

Bill,

According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at the outskirts of Plock. 
I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at Maszewo, but if not, then 
the recording of the birth should have been in Plock. According to the 
Pradziad database, the records for Plock are at

Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza Wielkiego 9B
tel: (24) 262-24-91
fax: 262-24-91
email: archiwum at plock.com
www.archiwum.plock.com

Since there is an email address in the above address, I would send them 
an email, in English, and ask if they can do a search for all children 
whose given names were Eduard Waldemar, who were born in Maszewo on 
September 14, 1898. They will likely respond to you in Polish, but that 
can be translated by more than a few of the smart people on this mail 
list. The response from the archives should tell you if they have that 
record.

You will then have to figure out how to get some money wired to their 
account. This last part is the hardest part, at least it has been for 
me. I am sure that others on this list can provide you the best method 
to transfer money to the archives, AFTER you get a response.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Bill Behrendt wrote:
> My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record from the Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or his mother's last name at that time. This is because some years after his birth, his mother divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. The name Behrendt is the step-father's name that the family has used. Shortly before my father passed away he told my brother about the divorce but did not reveal what was his father's last name. 
>
> >From what I can see the records from 1898 have not been microfilmed. How can I go about finding someone to research the Plock Evangelical Lutheran church books to locate and copy the birth record?
>
> Here are the details I know:
>
> Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
>
> Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
>
> Father's name: unknown 
>
> I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth record.
>
> Bill Behrendt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From mara.manke at sbcglobal.net  Mon May 11 14:15:47 2009
From: mara.manke at sbcglobal.net (Mara Manke)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
	father
In-Reply-To: <4A088562.9000309@warnerengineering.com>
References: <002501c9d26c$8892e900$0200000a@behrendtcdeb72>
	<4A088562.9000309@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <353182.65238.qm@web80802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Bill-
distant cousin Mara here in Cleveland Ohio--I had much success in writing to the Plock Archives last year for my?some of my Manke relatives--I went to?my Fifth Third Bank?branch here in Lakewood and wired money via their system--if I recall there was a $30-40.00 charge??It is so worth it :) Let me know if you want more info.??
Regards,
Mara Manke
?Mara E. Manke
1572 Lakeland Ave.
Lakewood, OH 44107
216-228-6134 
mara.manke at sbcglobal.net
Researching: ?Manke/Mahnke,? Lochstaedt, Kannenberg, Jabs/Jobs, Mantei, Schmeltzer, Keck, Nierman, and Mergner 


"All outer experiences reflect inner beliefs."--Louise Hay 




________________________________
From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
To: Bill Behrendt <wbehr at bellsouth.net>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for father

Bill,

According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at the outskirts of Plock. 
I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at Maszewo, but if not, then 
the recording of the birth should have been in Plock. According to the 
Pradziad database, the records for Plock are at

Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza Wielkiego 9B
tel: (24) 262-24-91
fax: 262-24-91
email: archiwum at plock.com
www.archiwum.plock.com

Since there is an email address in the above address, I would send them 
an email, in English, and ask if they can do a search for all children 
whose given names were Eduard Waldemar, who were born in Maszewo on 
September 14, 1898. They will likely respond to you in Polish, but that 
can be translated by more than a few of the smart people on this mail 
list. The response from the archives should tell you if they have that 
record.

You will then have to figure out how to get some money wired to their 
account. This last part is the hardest part, at least it has been for 
me. I am sure that others on this list can provide you the best method 
to transfer money to the archives, AFTER you get a response.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Bill Behrendt wrote:
> My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record from the Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or his mother's last name at that time. This is because some years after his birth, his mother divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. The name Behrendt is the step-father's name that the family has used. Shortly before my father passed away he told my brother about the divorce but did not reveal what was his father's last name. 
>
> >From what I can see the records from 1898 have not been microfilmed. How can I go about finding someone to research the Plock Evangelical Lutheran church books to locate and copy the birth record?
>
> Here are the details I know:
>
> Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
>
> Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
>
> Father's name: unknown 
>
> I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth record.
>
> Bill Behrendt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>? 

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

From Spaghettitree at aol.com  Mon May 11 15:02:47 2009
From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:02:47 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
	father
Message-ID: <c8c.3f2a0db5.3739fa87@aol.com>

Hi Everyone - to send foreign currency safely and the cheapest way  
possible, (cannot send personal check or international money order or  certified 
check- costs more in transfer fees  and/or bank fees than the  face value, and 
cash in risky unless you know the person, though I have done it  on 
occasion) go to ICE, International Currency Express at _www.foreignmoney.com_ 
(http://www.foreignmoney.com)  telephone  310/278-6628.  Long-established, 
reliable, safe.  Last I heard, the  fee was $10 for a check in foreign currency, 
can do this by credit card if you  wish.  Well recommended.   International 
Reply Coupons are no  longer feasible in most places and not worth much 
anyway..
 
Maureen
 
 
In a message dated 5/11/2009 2:18:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
mara.manke at sbcglobal.net writes:

Hi  Bill-
distant cousin Mara here in Cleveland Ohio--I had much success in  writing 
to the Plock Archives last year for my some of my Manke  relatives--I went 
to my Fifth Third Bank branch here in Lakewood and  wired money via their 
system--if I recall there was a $30-40.00  charge? It is so worth it :) Let me 
know if you want more  info.  
Regards,
Mara Manke
Mara E. Manke
1572  Lakeland Ave.
Lakewood, OH 44107
216-228-6134  
mara.manke at sbcglobal.net
Researching:  Manke/Mahnke,   Lochstaedt, Kannenberg, Jabs/Jobs, Mantei, 
Schmeltzer, Keck, Nierman, and  Mergner 


"All outer experiences reflect inner beliefs."--Louise Hay  




________________________________
From: Gary Warner  <gary at warnerengineering.com>
To: Bill Behrendt  <wbehr at bellsouth.net>
Cc:  ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06:58  PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record  for 
father

Bill,

According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at  the outskirts of Plock. 
I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at  Maszewo, but if not, then 
the recording of the birth should have been in  Plock. According to the 
Pradziad database, the records for Plock are  at

Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza  Wielkiego 9B
tel: (24) 262-24-91
fax: 262-24-91
email:  archiwum at plock.com
www.archiwum.plock.com

Since there is an email  address in the above address, I would send them 
an email, in English, and  ask if they can do a search for all children 
whose given names were Eduard  Waldemar, who were born in Maszewo on 
September 14, 1898. They will likely  respond to you in Polish, but that 
can be translated by more than a few of  the smart people on this mail 
list. The response from the archives should  tell you if they have that 
record.

You will then have to figure out  how to get some money wired to their 
account. This last part is the  hardest part, at least it has been for 
me. I am sure that others on this  list can provide you the best method 
to transfer money to the archives,  AFTER you get a response.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Bill Behrendt  wrote:
> My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 14,  1898 in 
Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record from  the 
Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or his mother's  
last name at that time. This is because some years after his birth, his mother 
 divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. The name Behrendt 
is  the step-father's name that the family has used. Shortly before my 
father  passed away he told my brother about the divorce but did not reveal what 
was  his father's last name. 
>
> >From what I can see the records  from 1898 have not been microfilmed. 
How can I go about finding someone to  research the Plock Evangelical Lutheran 
church books to locate and copy the  birth record?
>
> Here are the details I know:
>
>  Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
>
>  Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
>
> Father's name: unknown  
>
> I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth  record.
>
> Bill Behrendt
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv

**************Recession-proof vacation ideas.  Find free things to do in 
the U.S. 
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002)


From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Mon May 11 15:11:35 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:11:35 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record
	for	father
In-Reply-To: <c8c.3f2a0db5.3739fa87@aol.com>
References: <c8c.3f2a0db5.3739fa87@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d175f0d6a746.4a084e37@shaw.ca>

If you are going to use this method, be sure that it is acceptable to the receiving end.? Some archives will accept one and only one method of payment.


Jerry




----- Original Message -----
From: Spaghettitree at aol.com
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for	father
To: mara.manke at sbcglobal.net, gary at warnerengineering.com, wbehr at bellsouth.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> Hi Everyone - to send foreign currency safely and the cheapest 
> way? 
> possible, (cannot send personal check or international money 
> order or? certified 
> check- costs more in transfer fees? and/or bank fees than 
> the? face value, and 
> cash in risky unless you know the person, though I have done 
> it? on 
> occasion) go to ICE, International Currency Express at 
> _www.foreignmoney.com_ 
> (http://www.foreignmoney.com)? telephone? 310/278-
> 6628.? Long-established, 
> reliable, safe.? Last I heard, the? fee was $10 for a 
> check in foreign currency, 
> can do this by credit card if you? wish.? Well 
> recommended.?? International 
> Reply Coupons are no? longer feasible in most places and 
> not worth much 
> anyway..
> ?
> Maureen
> ?
> ?
> In a message dated 5/11/2009 2:18:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight 
> Time,? 
> mara.manke at sbcglobal.net writes:
> 
> Hi? Bill-
> distant cousin Mara here in Cleveland Ohio--I had much success 
> in? writing 
> to the Plock Archives last year for my some of my Manke? 
> relatives--I went 
> to my Fifth Third Bank branch here in Lakewood and? wired 
> money via their 
> system--if I recall there was a $30-40.00? charge? It is so 
> worth it :) Let me 
> know if you want more? info.? 
> Regards,
> Mara Manke
> Mara E. Manke
> 1572? Lakeland Ave.
> Lakewood, OH 44107
> 216-228-6134? 
> mara.manke at sbcglobal.net
> Researching:? Manke/Mahnke,?? Lochstaedt, 
> Kannenberg, Jabs/Jobs, Mantei, 
> Schmeltzer, Keck, Nierman, and? Mergner 
> 
> 
> "All outer experiences reflect inner beliefs."--Louise Hay? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Gary Warner? <gary at warnerengineering.com>
> To: Bill Behrendt? <wbehr at bellsouth.net>
> Cc:? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06:58? PM
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth 
> record? for 
> father
> 
> Bill,
> 
> According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at? the 
> outskirts of Plock. 
> I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at? Maszewo, 
> but if not, then 
> the recording of the birth should have been in? Plock. 
> According to the 
> Pradziad database, the records for Plock are? at
> 
> Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
> 09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza? Wielkiego 9B
> tel: (24) 262-24-91
> fax: 262-24-91
> email:? archiwum at plock.com
> www.archiwum.plock.com
> 
> Since there is an email? address in the above address, I 
> would send them 
> an email, in English, and? ask if they can do a search for 
> all children 
> whose given names were Eduard? Waldemar, who were born in 
> Maszewo on 
> September 14, 1898. They will likely? respond to you in 
> Polish, but that 
> can be translated by more than a few of? the smart people 
> on this mail 
> list. The response from the archives should? tell you if 
> they have that 
> record.
> 
> You will then have to figure out? how to get some money 
> wired to their 
> account. This last part is the? hardest part, at least it 
> has been for 
> me. I am sure that others on this? list can provide you the 
> best method 
> to transfer money to the archives,? AFTER you get a response.
> 
> Gary Warner
> SGGEE
> 
> Bill Behrendt? wrote:
> > My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 
> 14,? 1898 in 
> Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record 
> from? the 
> Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or 
> his mother's? 
> last name at that time. This is because some years after his 
> birth, his mother 
> ?divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. 
> The name Behrendt 
> is? the step-father's name that the family has used. 
> Shortly before my 
> father? passed away he told my brother about the divorce 
> but did not reveal what 
> was? his father's last name. 
> >
> > >From what I can see the records? from 1898 have not been 
> microfilmed. 
> How can I go about finding someone to? research the Plock 
> Evangelical Lutheran 
> church books to locate and copy the? birth record?
> >
> > Here are the details I know:
> >
> >? Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
> >
> >? Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
> >
> > Father's name: unknown? 
> >
> > I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth? 
> record.>
> > Bill Behrendt
> >
> >? _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia? Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? 
> http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at? 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv>?? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia? Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? 
> http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at? 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia? Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? 
> http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at? 
> http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> **************Recession-proof vacation ideas.? Find free 
> things to do in 
> the U.S. 
> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-
> week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002)
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From roseingram at shaw.ca  Mon May 11 15:30:48 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:30:48 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth
	record	for	father
References: <c8c.3f2a0db5.3739fa87@aol.com> <d175f0d6a746.4a084e37@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <007c01c9d288$21f59e60$6601a8c0@duocore>

I have requested birth or marriage records from several archives in Poland and all of them require money to be wired to the bank account which is stated in their reply to you.  Fees vary depending on research time involved locating the record.   ($10 - $30)  US dollars

Some Archives may want an initial deposit before starting a search (about $8).  Advise them that it costs about $25-30 bank fees to wire money no matter the amount, and that you would rather make one payment and offer to pay about $20-25 up front if you are ordering one or two records.   

I'm assuming that recently the archives have had difficulties with getting payment after locating the record and giving a preliminary report in their reporting emails.  Now the reporting letter only indicates they have found birth record for so'n so and entry #xx and do not give parents names.  Thus - pay up, (don't forget the file No.), send a scan of your wiring receipt from the bank, and then wait for your record in the mail - about 1-2 weeks.  

Rose


From: Jerry Frank 


  If you are going to use this method, be sure that it is acceptable to the receiving end. Some archives will accept one and only one method of payment.


  Jerry




  From: Spaghettitree at aol.com

  > Hi Everyone - to send foreign currency safely and the cheapest 
  > way 
  > possible, (cannot send personal check or international money 
  > order or certified 
  > check- costs more in transfer fees and/or bank fees than 
  > the face value, and 
  > cash in risky unless you know the person, though I have done 
  > it on 
  > occasion) go to ICE, International Currency Express at 
  > _www.foreignmoney.com_ 
  > (http://www.foreignmoney.com) telephone 310/278-
  > 6628. Long-established, 
  > reliable, safe. Last I heard, the fee was $10 for a 
  > check in foreign currency, 
  > can do this by credit card if you wish. Well 
  > recommended. International 
  > Reply Coupons are no longer feasible in most places and 
  > not worth much 
  > anyway..
  > 
  > Maureen
  > 
  > 
  > In a message dated 5/11/2009 2:18:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight 
  > Time, 
  > mara.manke at sbcglobal.net writes:
  > 
  > Hi Bill-
  > distant cousin Mara here in Cleveland Ohio--I had much success 
  > in writing 
  > to the Plock Archives last year for my some of my Manke 
  > relatives--I went 
  > to my Fifth Third Bank branch here in Lakewood and wired 
  > money via their 
  > system--if I recall there was a $30-40.00 charge? It is so 
  > worth it :) Let me 
  > know if you want more info. 
  > Regards,
  > Mara Manke
  > Mara E. Manke
  > 1572 Lakeland Ave.
  > Lakewood, OH 44107
  > 216-228-6134 
  > mara.manke at sbcglobal.net
  > Researching: Manke/Mahnke, Lochstaedt, 
  > Kannenberg, Jabs/Jobs, Mantei, 
  > Schmeltzer, Keck, Nierman, and Mergner 
  > 
  > 
  > "All outer experiences reflect inner beliefs."--Louise Hay 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ________________________________
  > From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
  > To: Bill Behrendt <wbehr at bellsouth.net>
  > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
  > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06:58 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth 
  > record for 
  > father
  > 
  > Bill,
  > 
  > According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at the 
  > outskirts of Plock. 
  > I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at Maszewo, 
  > but if not, then 
  > the recording of the birth should have been in Plock. 
  > According to the 
  > Pradziad database, the records for Plock are at
  > 
  > Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
  > 09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza Wielkiego 9B
  > tel: (24) 262-24-91
  > fax: 262-24-91
  > email: archiwum at plock.com
  > www.archiwum.plock.com
  > 
  > Since there is an email address in the above address, I 
  > would send them 
  > an email, in English, and ask if they can do a search for 
  > all children 
  > whose given names were Eduard Waldemar, who were born in 
  > Maszewo on 
  > September 14, 1898. They will likely respond to you in 
  > Polish, but that 
  > can be translated by more than a few of the smart people 
  > on this mail 
  > list. The response from the archives should tell you if 
  > they have that 
  > record.
  > 
  > You will then have to figure out how to get some money 
  > wired to their 
  > account. This last part is the hardest part, at least it 
  > has been for 
  > me. I am sure that others on this list can provide you the 
  > best method 
  > to transfer money to the archives, AFTER you get a response.
  > 
  > Gary Warner
  > SGGEE
  > 
  > Bill Behrendt wrote:
  > > My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 
  > 14, 1898 in 
  > Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record 
  > from the 
  > Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or 
  > his mother's 
  > last name at that time. This is because some years after his 
  > birth, his mother 
  > divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. 
  > The name Behrendt 
  > is the step-father's name that the family has used. 
  > Shortly before my 
  > father passed away he told my brother about the divorce 
  > but did not reveal what 
  > was his father's last name. 
  > >
  > > >From what I can see the records from 1898 have not been 
  > microfilmed. 
  > How can I go about finding someone to research the Plock 
  > Evangelical Lutheran 
  > church books to locate and copy the birth record?
  > >
  > > Here are the details I know:
  > >
  > > Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
  > >
  > > Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
  > >
  > > Father's name: unknown 
  > >
  > > I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth 
  > record.>
  > > Bill Behrendt
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe 
  > http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at 
  > http://www.sggee.org/listserv> 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe 
  > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at 
  > http://www.sggee.org/listserv
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe 
  > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at 
  > http://www.sggee.org/listserv
  > **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free 
  > things to do in 
  > the U.S. 
  > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-
  > week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002)
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

  _______________________________________________
  Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

From karlann at juno.com  Mon May 11 15:38:02 2009
From: karlann at juno.com (karlann@juno.com)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:38:02 GMT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] EZA Lutheran records
Message-ID: <20090511.153802.25066.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

Has anyone successfully used the EZA archives to request information on relatives born in the 19th century in areas that were in Zhitomir Parish or Pomerania? Or Lipno in Poland? Their website is http://ezab.de/

Karla Walters

 

____________________________________________________________
Get your dream car or truck. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTLa8toEWldRjDt5pm5JXYg6TUXyXHr2xiy3uwntdIjTlydRn9OiNS/



From smithdi410 at verizon.net  Mon May 11 17:15:10 2009
From: smithdi410 at verizon.net (Diane Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:15:10 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <178E6540-07C2-4BF7-B023-C5F540AC9FC3@schienke.com>
References: <mailman.55.1241620709.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<4CD1BCF005404CDFAD185627D429BC98@Desktop>
	<017301c9cf2e$3102c480$93084d80$@net>
	<178E6540-07C2-4BF7-B023-C5F540AC9FC3@schienke.com>
Message-ID: <CB8204BB-BB74-41C2-8557-6B782A4CDA1B@verizon.net>

I have not done any DNA testing and am very interested to do so. My  
father is 90; should I test his DNA  before it is too late? Or should  
I test my sons which would give me other links on his fathers side.  
Will my sons show me as much and more than my fathers? Your advise  
and writings have been most interesting and educational. Thanks Diane
On May 7, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Otto wrote:

> Thanks Mike,
> I'll flag your message for reference.
>
> My E-letter to the group on DNA testing yesterday was basic, to say
> the least, to keep focused on the essentials and expand later on each
> topic if need be.
> Understanding genetic genealogy in itself is not difficult. The
> learning curve is involved with learning the language of the
> discipline. With patience, progress can be a refreshing experience.
>
> I should have included the following items yesterday since they are
> useful to the researcher preparing to enter the field of "genetic
> genealogy."
>
> 1. Yesterday I did not differentiate between "SNP haplogroups" and
> "STR haplotypes", this downloadable PDF paper should suffice. To test
> for STR's or SNP's is a decision based on desired results necessary in
> the end. What results are you looking for from the test of your DNA is
> the question to be asked. http://www.clanewing.org/DNA_Project/ 
> DNA_Articles/DNA_Articles/ForTheFlustered.pdf
> (I would download the paper as a PDF file, one can never tell how long
> it will be available on the Web)
>
> 2. One of the better resources on the Web is the following site,
> suggested by my son, listing most of the companies and their blogs.
> Even if you have not been tested, this site can clarify some of the
> unknown to a beginner:
> http://dna-forums.org/
>
> On May 7, 2009, at 12:09 PM, MIKE MCHENRY wrote:
>
>> The USA passed the Genetic Information Non Discrimination Act last
>> year
>> http://www.genome.gov/24519851
>>
>>
>> MIKE
>>
>
>
> . . .   Otto
>           " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
>                ________________________________
>                  "The future. . . . always catches up."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
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From denuma at rogers.com  Mon May 11 23:05:23 2009
From: denuma at rogers.com (Dave Neumann)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 02:05:23 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] more on NEUMANN< DOBERMAN, KLEBE, and SCHLAK
Message-ID: <8738EF3BF24E4351B176399DDE1E9C29@computer>

These families all travelled on the Empress of Australia, departing
Southampton, England, on May 11, 1929, and arriving in Quebec, Canada on May
19, 1929. I am interested in these three families because my father, Emil
NEUMANN and his wife Adolina, made the same voyage, and these families are
all Germans from Ukraine. I searched the records and found more details that
may help, although the handwriting in these records can sometimes be
difficult to work out.

 

DOBERMAN, Joseph (35) identified Ernst Lange, a cousin, as his destination
contact in Guernsey Saskatchewan. He also lists his parents, Ferdinand and
Augusta Doberman, of Korosten District, Volhynia, as his relatives in the
land he left. Joseph Doberman travelled with his wife, Martha, and children,
Nina, Valentina, Robert and Reinhold.

 

KLEBE, Ernst (49) identified his daughter, M. Mass (Hass?) and son-in-law,
Jonathan Mass, as his closest relatives in the place he came from. They
lived in Lungewej, Wiestental, Shitomir Kreis. His destination in Canada is
the CPR Col Dept. Ernst KLEBE travelled with his wife, Anna, and children,
Aduna, Attilise, David, Johann & Jonathan.

 

SCHLAK, Friedrich (44) lists his destination/sponsor as the Lutheran
Immigration Board of Canada (LIB) office in Winnipeg MB. Relative in the
homeland identified is his brother, Adolph SCHLAK, of Bobritzkaya Buda,
Volhynia, Ukraine. Note: Bobritzkaya Buda was also known as Gnadental. We
were there last year searching for information on relatives - possible
connections to Kallasch family. Friedrich SCHLAK travelled with his wife,
Martha, and his daughter, Vanada (?).

 

Please contact me if you are in any way connected with these families. I
believe they would have known one another, and known my father, Emil NEUMANN
and his wife Adolina, who travelled on the same ship. Emil's grandfather,
Christian NEUMANN, lived in Ostrowka, Volhynia, very close to Gnadental
(Bobritzkaya Buda), and he started his journey out of the USSR by taking the
train from Korosten to Moscow in March 1929. All four families (NEUMANN,
DOBERMAN, KLEBE and SCHLAK) were supported by the Lutheran Immigration Board
of Canada. I suspect that the SCHLAK family may have been related to
Adolina, so I am especially interested in any SCHLAK connections you may
have.

 

David Neumann

Phone: 519-759-7885

 

 



From ati315 at gmx.de  Tue May 12 03:28:38 2009
From: ati315 at gmx.de (ati315@gmx.de)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:28:38 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fandry from Bialystok
Message-ID: <20090512102838.304170@gmx.net>

Hello,

I am looking for some information, concerning the family of my grandmother. My grandmother, Helene Fandry, was born in Bialystok in August 1892. Her father was Karl Fandry, her mother a born Radtke. As far as I know, my grandgrandfather was a tanner. They were members of the Evangelic Lutheran Church.

Does someone know about the possibility to get access to records in Bialystok?

Thanks and best regards,
Astrid
-- 
Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dslspecial.gmx.de/freedsl-surfflat/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a


From ceo at ametric.com  Tue May 12 06:00:52 2009
From: ceo at ametric.com (John Bettger)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:00:52 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record
	for	father
In-Reply-To: <c8c.3f2a0db5.3739fa87@aol.com>
References: <c8c.3f2a0db5.3739fa87@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AEE43B406990764EB823107FB46D447C01DCCF02173A@Server.ametric.com>

I have often use ikobo https://www.ikobo.com/how-ikobo-works.html to transfer money. It is a debit card that the recipient can use at any ATM worldwide.

Best Regards
John Leon Bettger
email address  ceo at ametric.com

Researching Waterloo South Russia (Stavki Ukraine) Odessa (city) South Russia (Odessa Ukraine) at 67 Ekaterininskaya Square (at the top of Potemkin Steps) Slowik (near Lodz) Koenigreich Poland/Prussia Gruenstadt Bavaria (Worms Germany) Neubrandenburg, Mecklenburg-Strelitz Prussia/Germany
NAMES: Bettger, Boettcher, Huhn, Schindler

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Spaghettitree at aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 6:03 PM
To: mara.manke at sbcglobal.net; gary at warnerengineering.com; wbehr at bellsouth.net
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for father

Hi Everyone - to send foreign currency safely and the cheapest way
possible, (cannot send personal check or international money order or  certified
check- costs more in transfer fees  and/or bank fees than the  face value, and
cash in risky unless you know the person, though I have done it  on
occasion) go to ICE, International Currency Express at _www.foreignmoney.com_
(http://www.foreignmoney.com)  telephone  310/278-6628.  Long-established,
reliable, safe.  Last I heard, the  fee was $10 for a check in foreign currency,
can do this by credit card if you  wish.  Well recommended.   International
Reply Coupons are no  longer feasible in most places and not worth much
anyway..

Maureen


In a message dated 5/11/2009 2:18:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mara.manke at sbcglobal.net writes:

Hi  Bill-
distant cousin Mara here in Cleveland Ohio--I had much success in  writing
to the Plock Archives last year for my some of my Manke  relatives--I went
to my Fifth Third Bank branch here in Lakewood and  wired money via their
system--if I recall there was a $30-40.00  charge? It is so worth it :) Let me
know if you want more  info.
Regards,
Mara Manke
Mara E. Manke
1572  Lakeland Ave.
Lakewood, OH 44107
216-228-6134
mara.manke at sbcglobal.net
Researching:  Manke/Mahnke,   Lochstaedt, Kannenberg, Jabs/Jobs, Mantei,
Schmeltzer, Keck, Nierman, and  Mergner


"All outer experiences reflect inner beliefs."--Louise Hay




________________________________
From: Gary Warner  <gary at warnerengineering.com>
To: Bill Behrendt  <wbehr at bellsouth.net>
Cc:  ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06:58  PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record  for
father

Bill,

According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at  the outskirts of Plock.
I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at  Maszewo, but if not, then
the recording of the birth should have been in  Plock. According to the
Pradziad database, the records for Plock are  at

Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza  Wielkiego 9B
tel: (24) 262-24-91
fax: 262-24-91
email:  archiwum at plock.com
www.archiwum.plock.com

Since there is an email  address in the above address, I would send them
an email, in English, and  ask if they can do a search for all children
whose given names were Eduard  Waldemar, who were born in Maszewo on
September 14, 1898. They will likely  respond to you in Polish, but that
can be translated by more than a few of  the smart people on this mail
list. The response from the archives should  tell you if they have that
record.

You will then have to figure out  how to get some money wired to their
account. This last part is the  hardest part, at least it has been for
me. I am sure that others on this  list can provide you the best method
to transfer money to the archives,  AFTER you get a response.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Bill Behrendt  wrote:
> My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 14,  1898 in
Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record from  the
Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or his mother's
last name at that time. This is because some years after his birth, his mother
 divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. The name Behrendt
is  the step-father's name that the family has used. Shortly before my
father  passed away he told my brother about the divorce but did not reveal what
was  his father's last name.
>
> >From what I can see the records  from 1898 have not been microfilmed.
How can I go about finding someone to  research the Plock Evangelical Lutheran
church books to locate and copy the  birth record?
>
> Here are the details I know:
>
>  Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
>
>  Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
>
> Father's name: unknown
>
> I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth  record.
>
> Bill Behrendt
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe  http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia  Mailing List hosted by
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Mailing list info at  http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_______________________________________________
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**************Recession-proof vacation ideas.  Find free things to do in
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_______________________________________________
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From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Tue May 12 07:33:26 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:33:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
In-Reply-To: <CB8204BB-BB74-41C2-8557-6B782A4CDA1B@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <828376.72407.qm@web55301.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

There are two kinds of tests you can run. Mitochondrial DNA goes up the maternal line in every generation. Y-chromosome DNA goes up the paternal line in every generation. So your sons' DNA will reveal markers on your husband's paternal side of the family tracking his surname. If you want to know about your own paternal heritage you have to use your father's DNA, or your brother's, or your brother's sons. If you have uncles/cousins from your father's side you can use them too. They should all give the same results so only one is necessary to get the information you want.

Maternal DNA using mitochondrial markers follows a similar scheme but are carried by both sexes. Your sons mitochondrial DNA should equal yours which equals your mother's which is your maternal grandmother's ...

I hope this all makes sense.
Karl

--- On Mon, 5/11/09, Diane Smith <smithdi410 at verizon.net> wrote:
From: Diane Smith <smithdi410 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] On DNA testing
To: "Otto" <otto at schienke.com>
Cc: "MIKE MCHENRY" <maurmike1 at verizon.net>, "GPV List" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 8:15 PM

I have not done any DNA testing and am very interested to do so. My  
father is 90; should I test his DNA  before it is too late? Or should  
I test my sons which would give me other links on his fathers side.  
Will my sons show me as much and more than my fathers? Your advise  
and writings have been most interesting and educational. Thanks Diane
On May 7, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Otto wrote:

> Thanks Mike,
> I'll flag your message for reference.
>
> My E-letter to the group on DNA testing yesterday was basic, to say
> the least, to keep focused on the essentials and expand later on each
> topic if need be.
> Understanding genetic genealogy in itself is not difficult. The
> learning curve is involved with learning the language of the
> discipline. With patience, progress can be a refreshing experience.
>
> I should have included the following items yesterday since they are
> useful to the researcher preparing to enter the field of "genetic
> genealogy."
>
> 1. Yesterday I did not differentiate between "SNP haplogroups"
and
> "STR haplotypes", this downloadable PDF paper should suffice. To
test
> for STR's or SNP's is a decision based on desired results
necessary in
> the end. What results are you looking for from the test of your DNA is
> the question to be asked. http://www.clanewing.org/DNA_Project/ 
> DNA_Articles/DNA_Articles/ForTheFlustered.pdf
> (I would download the paper as a PDF file, one can never tell how long
> it will be available on the Web)
>
> 2. One of the better resources on the Web is the following site,
> suggested by my son, listing most of the companies and their blogs.
> Even if you have not been tested, this site can clarify some of the
> unknown to a beginner:
> http://dna-forums.org/
>
> On May 7, 2009, at 12:09 PM, MIKE MCHENRY wrote:
>
>> The USA passed the Genetic Information Non Discrimination Act last
>> year
>> http://www.genome.gov/24519851
>>
>>
>> MIKE
>>
>
>
> . . .   Otto
>           " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
>                ________________________________
>                  "The future. . . . always catches up."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



      

From gary at warnerengineering.com  Tue May 12 08:02:53 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:02:53 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fandry from Bialystok
In-Reply-To: <20090512102838.304170@gmx.net>
References: <20090512102838.304170@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4A098F9D.2060701@warnerengineering.com>

Astrid,

There are three places in Poland that have the word Bialystok in their 
name.   One is a large city in Podlaskie province, one is a small 
village called Konopki-Bialystok, also in Podlaskie province, and one is 
a small village in  Lubelskie province.   I am going to assume for the 
moment that you are talking about the large city.  There may also be 
records for the smaller villages, but your first look for records should 
probably be in the easiest place to find records.

According to the Pradziad database at the Polish archives, there are 
Lutheran birth records for Bialystok (the large city) from 1847 to 1872, 
and from 1875 to 1907.  There are also marriage records from 1841 to 
1890, and 1892 to 1907.  Death records exist from 1870 to 1907.  
According to that website, the records are kept at

*Archiwum Pan'stwowe w Bia?ymstoku
15-426 Bia?ystok, Rynek Kos'ciuszki 4
tel: (85) 743-56-03
fax: 743-56-55
email: sekretariat_ap at bialystok.ap.gov.pl
www.bialystok.ap.gov.pl

*Since an email address is noted in the above address, I would send an 
email, in English, and ask what they need from you to conduct a search 
of the records.   You should consider asking for a search of all of the 
years that they have  if they have the birth, marriage or death records 
for any Fandry, Fandrey or Fandrei family in whatever time frames you 
seek, or perhaps all of the time frames for which there are records.

Gary Warner
SGGEE*
*
ati315 at gmx.de wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for some information, concerning the family of my grandmother. My grandmother, Helene Fandry, was born in Bialystok in August 1892. Her father was Karl Fandry, her mother a born Radtke. As far as I know, my grandgrandfather was a tanner. They were members of the Evangelic Lutheran Church.
>
> Does someone know about the possibility to get access to records in Bialystok?
>
> Thanks and best regards,
> Astrid
>   


From rakow at ifh.de  Tue May 12 11:17:49 2009
From: rakow at ifh.de (Paul Rakow)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 20:17:49 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] EZA Lutheran records
In-Reply-To: <mailman.76.1242133301.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.76.1242133301.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.10.0905121902010.9993@pub2.ifh.de>


  Karla,

      The evengelical central archive in Berlin (EZAB) do have quite
  a few church books from Pommerania, so if you know where in Pommerania
  your ancestors were from, they could be useful for that branch of your
  family. The Mormons have microfilm of most church books in EZAB, so
  it's usually easier/faster to look for yourself. (The films may be
  restricted in Berlin and Brandenburg).

     You can see what they have for Pommern by going to

  http://www.ezab.de/e/ebframe.html

  and clicking on "Church Records" . If you find an interesting
  place, click on it and you'll see what sort of records they have,

-----

       They are also supposed to have quite a lot of material from
  Lipno, but I can't find any mention of it on the EZAB web-site.

     Uwe Kerntopf's web-site gives some details, look at

  http://www.dobriner-land.de/
  and
  http://www.kerntopf.com/dobrin/literatur/i_bestand.pdf

   You should contact Uwe Kerntopf for advice.

------

       I don't know about anything from Zhitomir that has ended up
  in the EZAB archive - if you do find anything, please tell us all!

           Yours,
             Paul Rakow
             rakow at ifh.de

  "karlann at juno.com" <karlann at juno.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone successfully used the EZA archives to request information
> on relatives born in the 19th century in areas that were in 
> Zhitomir Parish or Pomerania? Or Lipno in Poland? Their website is
> http://ezab.de/
>
> Karla Walters
>


From ejadam at yahoo.com  Tue May 12 15:42:11 2009
From: ejadam at yahoo.com (E. Adam)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:42:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
Message-ID: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you view and print from it? Do you need to go to a microfilm reader? Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?

Thanks,
Edie Adam
Fairfax, Virginia USA


      


From colnels at telus.net  Tue May 12 16:45:28 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:45:28 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
In-Reply-To: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001801c9d35b$bb453750$31cfa5f0$@net>

Hello Edie:
I would guess you could go to a Family History Center and use their
equipment.
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of E. Adam
Sent: May-12-09 4:42 PM
To: SGGEE
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films



Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if you've bought
microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you view and print from it? Do
you need to go to a microfilm reader? Or is there some trick to doing this
on the computer?

Thanks,
Edie Adam
Fairfax, Virginia USA


      

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date: 05/08/09
11:43:00



From perry1121 at aol.com  Tue May 12 16:59:29 2009
From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59:29 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
In-Reply-To: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A0A0D61.5010203@aol.com>

Hi Edie,

Besides going to the Family History Center, you could ask your local 
public library about using your own film in their readers. I checked 
with our public library and they said there would be no problem with 
that. Also, some libraries and Family History Centers have a special 
scanner that reads microfilm and converts it to a digital image. Using 
such a converter would allow you to save the images to a flashdrive and 
then you could view them on your computer and print them that way. 
Otherwise, many microfilm readers have printers attached to them.

Sigrid Pohl Perry

E. Adam wrote:
> Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you view and print from it? Do you need to go to a microfilm reader? Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?
>
> Thanks,
> Edie Adam
> Fairfax, Virginia USA
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   



From daveobee at shaw.ca  Tue May 12 17:14:50 2009
From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:14:50 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
In-Reply-To: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <601178.18195.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cf05eda498d70.4a09ae8a@shaw.ca>

I've bought about 150 of them over the years. Yes, you need to use a microfilm machine. I have tried scanning the image into my computer but it is a real pain.

Beyond that, though, the entire series of films is at College Park, not far from you!

Dave Obee


----- Original Message -----
From: "E. Adam" <ejadam at yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 15:45
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
To: SGGEE <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>

> 
> Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if 
> you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you 
> view and print from it? Do you need to go to a microfilm reader? 
> Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?
> 
> Thanks,
> Edie Adam
> Fairfax, Virginia USA
> 
> 
> ????? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From farose at gmail.com  Tue May 12 17:50:36 2009
From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:50:36 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sort of OT - corrupted file of genealogical
	material
Message-ID: <d813c1fb0905121750o4d26cd4eibcea21612fed7405@mail.gmail.com>

I'm just devastated - the file in my genealogy program that held over 8000
names (I record siblings and spouses of siblings, etc., as  well) is
corrupted, and I cannot access it. Last night I tried to do a merge, and the
program froze. So I had to shut down the computer - and when I tried to
access it this morning, I got the following error message:
 Error opening database.
Unrecognized database format 'C:\(genealogy program)\Data\My Tree2.fdb'.

I'm very carefuly to back-up every time I finish with the program, but of
course couldn't do it last night. I've tried accessing the file directly,
and still get the same error message. I'm not terribly computer literate, so
I tried the old standby - re-booting, and no change.

I have an old file that still works, but there is easily more than a hundred
hours of research and data-input that is not in the old one, but is in the
one I can't access.

Any advice gratefully received - (privately or here) as well as advice on
what to do so that this doesn't happen again. I can't afford to lost that
much information. Help!

Rose-Marie


From farose at gmail.com  Tue May 12 18:23:30 2009
From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:23:30 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] sort of OT corrupted file - now fixed
Message-ID: <d813c1fb0905121823t2b184dfbm4a6b11ed587e092a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to bother you all again, but it seems I've been able to fix the
problem - there is fortunately a "restore" function in the program, and I've
been able to restore the file. Looks to be ok.

Again, sorry!

Rose-Marie


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Tue May 12 18:59:24 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59:24 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] sort of OT corrupted file - now fixed
In-Reply-To: <d813c1fb0905121823t2b184dfbm4a6b11ed587e092a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d813c1fb0905121823t2b184dfbm4a6b11ed587e092a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A0A297C.2050005@warnerengineering.com>

Rose-Marie,

Sounds like you are using Legacy, so if you do regular backups, you can 
always do a restore from any of the backups you have.   You of course do 
a backup at least daily, right?

Gary

F&RM Haddad wrote:
> Sorry to bother you all again, but it seems I've been able to fix the
> problem - there is fortunately a "restore" function in the program, and I've
> been able to restore the file. Looks to be ok.
>
> Again, sorry!
>
> Rose-Marie
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From farose at gmail.com  Wed May 13 08:29:12 2009
From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:29:12 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information
Message-ID: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>

I'm the one who had the near-miss with a corrupted database file that my
program (yes, Legacy) had the ability to restore. And thank-you everyone for
your suggestions and good wishes. This has made me wonder how everyone
stores their genealogical info. Just on a dedicated genealogy program? Also
in, a spreadsheet program? And/Or also in a Word Processing Program in
Ahnen-tafel format? What about "hard copy"? I gave my maternal line data in
chart form to a cousin as a b-day gift, and it was over 120 pages, 5
generations per page. Many pages had only one or two names on them of
course, but even so. Since then I've been able to add more material, and it
would be signficantly bigger now.

So in your opinion, what is the best way (what are the best ways) to store
your information?

And while on the topic - how do you transfer the information in electronic
format to someone (say, overseas) who does not have a genealogical program
on their computer, and may not have Microsoft Word? And I don't have Adobe
except as a reader.

Rose-Marie


From gary at warnerengineering.com  Wed May 13 09:16:37 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:16:37 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information
In-Reply-To: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A0AF265.8090004@warnerengineering.com>

Rose-Marie,

Legacy not only has the ability to restore a backup, but it has a file 
maintenance routine that will mostly, but not always, recover your file 
from a crash.

Storing your data is not just making a backup of your data.   What 
happens if the computer dies, or you have a fire.   You should always 
have your data not only backed up on your computer, but also on a flash 
drive that is always with you, or always somewhere that it there was a 
fire, you would not lose it- like at your office.  You might also 
consider sending a copy of your data on a regular basis to one of your 
children and tell them to keep it safe, even if they are not interested 
in genealogy- tell them if they lose that file, you may cut them off 
from any inheritance!

You really do not need to print out your data on paper, because as soon 
as you print it, it will be out of date, assuming that you are actively 
updating your database.   That does not mean that you should not print 
out a pedigree or share family group sheets with members of your family, 
but putting it all in a book does not really do much for anyone, 
especially since finding a particular family group sheet among several 
thousand others can be a daunting task if you do not find it instead on 
your computer.   I am not saying that you might not want to print out 
all of your data if you are sharing a printed book with family members 
who do not have computers, but that task is a large one if you have much 
data, especially if you do not have a good genealogy program that will 
index the printouts like a book.

I am not sure why you would want to try and transcribe your data into a 
spreadsheet or a word processing program once you have it in GEDCOM 
format inside a genealogy program.   The time it would take to do so and 
keep it current would be large, and what would you gain?

You can of course share all of your pedigree, all of your family group 
sheets, and ancestral and descendancy charts and books with anyone by 
making Acrobat Reader (pdf) files of those documents.   That provides 
the data to others electronically, and does not take the paper to do 
so.   I am not sure that all genealogy programs allow you to make pdf 
files of your data but Legacy does- it is an option on the print preview 
screen.

Gary Warner
SGGEE






F&RM Haddad wrote:
> I'm the one who had the near-miss with a corrupted database file that my
> program (yes, Legacy) had the ability to restore. And thank-you everyone for
> your suggestions and good wishes. This has made me wonder how everyone
> stores their genealogical info. Just on a dedicated genealogy program? Also
> in, a spreadsheet program? And/Or also in a Word Processing Program in
> Ahnen-tafel format? What about "hard copy"? I gave my maternal line data in
> chart form to a cousin as a b-day gift, and it was over 120 pages, 5
> generations per page. Many pages had only one or two names on them of
> course, but even so. Since then I've been able to add more material, and it
> would be signficantly bigger now.
>
> So in your opinion, what is the best way (what are the best ways) to store
> your information?
>
> And while on the topic - how do you transfer the information in electronic
> format to someone (say, overseas) who does not have a genealogical program
> on their computer, and may not have Microsoft Word? And I don't have Adobe
> except as a reader.
>
> Rose-Marie
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   


From garynrho at gmail.com  Wed May 13 09:22:50 2009
From: garynrho at gmail.com (gary and rhonda simpson)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:22:50 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information
In-Reply-To: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1B0B8EB11534CDF985C0ED13DD11C19@OwnerPC>

        Rose Marie,

if I have to share with someone overseas etc I use Adobe Share 
http://www.adobe.com/acom/share/

It converts files to PDF and you can send the link to who you want to share 
it with.  I always ask that person(s) to download the info, and advise me 
when they have done so and then I delete it from the site. (that's just 
because I am still a little paranoid).  I have found it works well for short 
term transfer of info.

Rhonda 



From ironhide781 at hotmail.com  Wed May 13 09:38:15 2009
From: ironhide781 at hotmail.com (Brandt Gibson)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:38:15 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72,
	Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <mailman.77.1242231445.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.77.1242231445.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <SNT111-W494C24FF5353460EEF55DEEB610@phx.gbl>


As far as backing up your data goes, I've found it helpful to have several backups. I keep one file on my main genealogy computer, a copy on my laptop, another on my flash drive, and a final one on a genealogy website (I use TribalPages.com). I also have some DVD-RWs that I update usually once every couple months, where I'll backup everything I have and then write the date on the DVD so I know when my last backup was. It sounds overly redundant, but at least I know if a fire or earthquake happens, unless it wipes out my home, all of my belongings and the entire internet, I'm still ok. 

Brandt

From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72, Issue 25
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:17:25 -0700

Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to
	ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
 
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org
 
You can reach the person managing the list at
	ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org
 
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: ejadam at yahoo.com
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:42:11 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films

 
Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you view and print from it? Do you need to go to a microfilm reader? Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?
 
Thanks,
Edie Adam
Fairfax, Virginia USA
 
 
      
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: colnels at telus.net
To: ejadam at yahoo.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:45:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films

Hello Edie:
I would guess you could go to a Family History Center and use their
equipment.
Nelson
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of E. Adam
Sent: May-12-09 4:42 PM
To: SGGEE
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
 
 
 
Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if you've bought
microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you view and print from it? Do
you need to go to a microfilm reader? Or is there some trick to doing this
on the computer?
 
Thanks,
Edie Adam
Fairfax, Virginia USA
 
 
      
 
_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date: 05/08/09
11:43:00
 
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: perry1121 at aol.com
CC: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
To: ejadam at yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films

Hi Edie,
 
Besides going to the Family History Center, you could ask your local 
public library about using your own film in their readers. I checked 
with our public library and they said there would be no problem with 
that. Also, some libraries and Family History Centers have a special 
scanner that reads microfilm and converts it to a digital image. Using 
such a converter would allow you to save the images to a flashdrive and 
then you could view them on your computer and print them that way. 
Otherwise, many microfilm readers have printers attached to them.
 
Sigrid Pohl Perry
 
E. Adam wrote:
> Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you view and print from it? Do you need to go to a microfilm reader? Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?
>
> Thanks,
> Edie Adam
> Fairfax, Virginia USA
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   
 
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: daveobee at shaw.ca
CC: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
To: ejadam at yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:14:50 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films

I've bought about 150 of them over the years. Yes, you need to use a microfilm machine. I have tried scanning the image into my computer but it is a real pain.
 
Beyond that, though, the entire series of films is at College Park, not far from you!
 
Dave Obee
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "E. Adam" <ejadam at yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 15:45
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
To: SGGEE <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
 
> 
> Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question but if 
> you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ... how do you 
> view and print from it? Do you need to go to a microfilm reader? 
> Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?
> 
> Thanks,
> Edie Adam
> Fairfax, Virginia USA
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: farose at gmail.com
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:50:36 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sort of OT - corrupted file of genealogical	material

I'm just devastated - the file in my genealogy program that held over 8000
names (I record siblings and spouses of siblings, etc., as  well) is
corrupted, and I cannot access it. Last night I tried to do a merge, and the
program froze. So I had to shut down the computer - and when I tried to
access it this morning, I got the following error message:
 Error opening database.
Unrecognized database format 'C:\(genealogy program)\Data\My Tree2.fdb'.
 
I'm very carefuly to back-up every time I finish with the program, but of
course couldn't do it last night. I've tried accessing the file directly,
and still get the same error message. I'm not terribly computer literate, so
I tried the old standby - re-booting, and no change.
 
I have an old file that still works, but there is easily more than a hundred
hours of research and data-input that is not in the old one, but is in the
one I can't access.
 
Any advice gratefully received - (privately or here) as well as advice on
what to do so that this doesn't happen again. I can't afford to lost that
much information. Help!
 
Rose-Marie
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: farose at gmail.com
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:23:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] sort of OT corrupted file - now fixed

Sorry to bother you all again, but it seems I've been able to fix the
problem - there is fortunately a "restore" function in the program, and I've
been able to restore the file. Looks to be ok.
 
Again, sorry!
 
Rose-Marie
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: gary at warnerengineering.com
CC: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
To: farose at gmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] sort of OT corrupted file - now fixed

Rose-Marie,
 
Sounds like you are using Legacy, so if you do regular backups, you can 
always do a restore from any of the backups you have.   You of course do 
a backup at least daily, right?
 
Gary
 
F&RM Haddad wrote:
> Sorry to bother you all again, but it seems I've been able to fix the
> problem - there is fortunately a "restore" function in the program, and I've
> been able to restore the file. Looks to be ok.
>
> Again, sorry!
>
> Rose-Marie
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: farose at gmail.com
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:29:12 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information

I'm the one who had the near-miss with a corrupted database file that my
program (yes, Legacy) had the ability to restore. And thank-you everyone for
your suggestions and good wishes. This has made me wonder how everyone
stores their genealogical info. Just on a dedicated genealogy program? Also
in, a spreadsheet program? And/Or also in a Word Processing Program in
Ahnen-tafel format? What about "hard copy"? I gave my maternal line data in
chart form to a cousin as a b-day gift, and it was over 120 pages, 5
generations per page. Many pages had only one or two names on them of
course, but even so. Since then I've been able to add more material, and it
would be signficantly bigger now.
 
So in your opinion, what is the best way (what are the best ways) to store
your information?
 
And while on the topic - how do you transfer the information in electronic
format to someone (say, overseas) who does not have a genealogical program
on their computer, and may not have Microsoft Word? And I don't have Adobe
except as a reader.
 
Rose-Marie
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: gary at warnerengineering.com
CC: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
To: farose at gmail.com
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:16:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information

Rose-Marie,
 
Legacy not only has the ability to restore a backup, but it has a file 
maintenance routine that will mostly, but not always, recover your file 
from a crash.
 
Storing your data is not just making a backup of your data.   What 
happens if the computer dies, or you have a fire.   You should always 
have your data not only backed up on your computer, but also on a flash 
drive that is always with you, or always somewhere that it there was a 
fire, you would not lose it- like at your office.  You might also 
consider sending a copy of your data on a regular basis to one of your 
children and tell them to keep it safe, even if they are not interested 
in genealogy- tell them if they lose that file, you may cut them off 
from any inheritance!
 
You really do not need to print out your data on paper, because as soon 
as you print it, it will be out of date, assuming that you are actively 
updating your database.   That does not mean that you should not print 
out a pedigree or share family group sheets with members of your family, 
but putting it all in a book does not really do much for anyone, 
especially since finding a particular family group sheet among several 
thousand others can be a daunting task if you do not find it instead on 
your computer.   I am not saying that you might not want to print out 
all of your data if you are sharing a printed book with family members 
who do not have computers, but that task is a large one if you have much 
data, especially if you do not have a good genealogy program that will 
index the printouts like a book.
 
I am not sure why you would want to try and transcribe your data into a 
spreadsheet or a word processing program once you have it in GEDCOM 
format inside a genealogy program.   The time it would take to do so and 
keep it current would be large, and what would you gain?
 
You can of course share all of your pedigree, all of your family group 
sheets, and ancestral and descendancy charts and books with anyone by 
making Acrobat Reader (pdf) files of those documents.   That provides 
the data to others electronically, and does not take the paper to do 
so.   I am not sure that all genealogy programs allow you to make pdf 
files of your data but Legacy does- it is an option on the print preview 
screen.
 
Gary Warner
SGGEE
 
 
 
 
 
 
F&RM Haddad wrote:
> I'm the one who had the near-miss with a corrupted database file that my
> program (yes, Legacy) had the ability to restore. And thank-you everyone for
> your suggestions and good wishes. This has made me wonder how everyone
> stores their genealogical info. Just on a dedicated genealogy program? Also
> in, a spreadsheet program? And/Or also in a Word Processing Program in
> Ahnen-tafel format? What about "hard copy"? I gave my maternal line data in
> chart form to a cousin as a b-day gift, and it was over 120 pages, 5
> generations per page. Many pages had only one or two names on them of
> course, but even so. Since then I've been able to add more material, and it
> would be signficantly bigger now.
>
> So in your opinion, what is the best way (what are the best ways) to store
> your information?
>
> And while on the topic - how do you transfer the information in electronic
> format to someone (say, overseas) who does not have a genealogical program
> on their computer, and may not have Microsoft Word? And I don't have Adobe
> except as a reader.
>
> Rose-Marie
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   
 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

From ejadam at yahoo.com  Wed May 13 15:20:53 2009
From: ejadam at yahoo.com (E. Adam)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
Message-ID: <611818.5499.qm@web53504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hello all and thanks for the information. I live within 25 miles of College Park and made my first visit to the Archives and the EWZ collection today.

I am focusing my research on a specific area of Russia which my Volhynian family left in 1942, trying to create a history of all who lived there. So it's a lot of films to go through.

They don't have any scanning capability but will allow photographs of the microfilm reader screen, for what that's worth. I asked about buying and they do now also offer the films on DVD in PDF format for $125 US (microfilm copies are $85 US). Even printing is 50 cents per print, so it's going to add up quickly. But oh so worth it!

Edie Adam

--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Dave Obee <daveobee at shaw.ca> wrote:

> From: Dave Obee <daveobee at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
> To: ejadam at yahoo.com
> Cc: "SGGEE" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:14 PM
> I've bought about 150 of them over
> the years. Yes, you need to use a microfilm machine. I have
> tried scanning the image into my computer but it is a real
> pain.
> 
> Beyond that, though, the entire series of films is at
> College Park, not far from you!
> 
> Dave Obee
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E. Adam" <ejadam at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 15:45
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Question: Buying EWZ films
> To: SGGEE <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
> 
> > 
> > Hello all: This is going to sound like a dumb question
> but if 
> > you've bought microfilm from the EWZ collection ...
> how do you 
> > view and print from it? Do you need to go to a
> microfilm reader? 
> > Or is there some trick to doing this on the computer?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Edie Adam
> > Fairfax, Virginia USA
> > 
> > 
> > ????? 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


      



From kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu  Wed May 13 15:52:37 2009
From: kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu (Ken Browne)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:52:37 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information
In-Reply-To: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A0B4F35.3080201@alumni.umass.edu>

F&RM Haddad wrote:
> I'm the one who had the near-miss with a corrupted database file that my
> program (yes, Legacy) had the ability to restore. And thank-you everyone for
> your suggestions and good wishes. This has made me wonder how everyone
> stores their genealogical info. Just on a dedicated genealogy program? Also
>
>   
In regards to sharing information, I know that Family Tree Maker has (or 
had) a free download of a viewer so that you could send a copy of your 
entire file, or selected portions, to family members who would be able 
to view but not edit the data. I don't know about Legacy, or other 
programs but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. For that matter, isn't 
there a free version of Legacy?

Kenneth Browne researching:
BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF
LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL
NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE



Don't confuse  fame with success. Madonna is one; Helen Keller is the other.
 Erma Bombeck
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


From otto at schienke.com  Wed May 13 17:16:31 2009
From: otto at schienke.com (Otto)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:16:31 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] storing genealogical information
In-Reply-To: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d813c1fb0905130829m45bb2419oac99a32f73aa6ffd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2473770A-201D-4C26-B399-26618D96073A@schienke.com>

Last fall one morning before I checked E-mail, I saw my "trash" needed  
emptying and did so with a quick  keyboard command. I was horrified  
when it didn't do a "blip" and done . . . It kept erasing for 30  
seconds! I checked my "desktop" (on an iMac) and saw that the night  
before I obviously had dragged a folder with two months work in it  
including one of a kind graphics into the trash with a "right/click"  
command. Gone! After pounding my head on the tabletop for five  
minutes, I'd recognized where the problem was, I decided to organize  
properly.

The iMac system has an application called "Time Machine" that backs up  
hard-disks connected every hour on the hour while the computer is in  
use. Should something "disappear" as did my folder, Time Machine  
allows me to go back in time by the hour to the beginning of its use  
and "restore" any missing files or folders or whatever to my desktop.

To use the Time Machine application I purchased a Lacie 500 gigabyte  
hard-drive (disk memory is inexpensive) and dedicated it to the sole  
use of the Time Machine application for backup. It backs up my iMac  
hard-drive and my auxiliary hard-drive.

THE BEST PART- When I started the new Lacie Hard-drive it had its own  
backup application on it (which I didn't use).  I am certain a similar  
application is available for Microsoft Windows machines.

Why keep track of which files you backed up and when?
                        Back up everything!
Everything on my hard-drive is backed up, including the operating  
system, behind the scene while I work, every hour on the hour.

I no longer need be accused of "senior moments"...  :D))


On May 13, 2009, at 11:29 AM, F&RM Haddad wrote:

> I'm the one who had the near-miss
> So in your opinion, what is the best way (what are the best ways) to  
> store
> your information?
>
> Rose-Marie


. . .   Otto
          " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009-
               ________________________________
                 "The future. . . . always catches up."



From Krampetz at aol.com  Wed May 13 19:54:42 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:54:42 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
	father
Message-ID: <cce.4ea4bc19.373ce1f2@aol.com>

Hi all:
    I'm new here & started looking over recent past  emails.  
 
    Re the Subject line,  I'm surprized that EZAB.DE  wasn't mentioned..
    EZA has (suposedly) all the eastern Europe Lutheran  church records 
from the
    days when Germans, & their churches,  were  expelled from Polish & 
other 
    territories after WWII.
 
    I recently found their site,  emailed them with my  gfather's name, 
birth city
    (it was wrong) & birthday (it was wrong  too)  his brother's info 
(which was
    Lipno & right), and two siblings names (I had  just discovered 
searching Ellis
     Island records.)
    They emailed back in less than 24 hours with the names  of of his 8 
siblings! 
     They mentioned several Krampitz families in Lipno,  but the given 
names matched,
      though they couldn't find my  gfather's.
    When I gave them the correct names of his parents  (they had a 
different one)
    it  took them another 24 hours to find my  gfather's record, his 
mother's death,
    and the remarriage of his father.
     2 hrs & copying charges came to a bit over  100Euros.  Once I 
confirmed that 
     I wanted copies,  they mailed  the  package & I received in about a 
week+ later.  
     Which was  *BEFORE* I sent the wire  transfer.
     (& have the right bank & there's no  fees!)..
    
     Check them out before you go to any archives that  want payment before 
they
      tell you anything.
 
   Bob Krampetz,  
    Researching Krampitz
P.S.  I  have new information for the master list once I figure  out how to 
add all
      that info in a form that's  wanted.     
 
**************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after 
instant savings! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi)


From roseingram at shaw.ca  Wed May 13 20:39:46 2009
From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:39:46 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record
	for	father
References: <cce.4ea4bc19.373ce1f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <017001c9d445$a07fece0$6601a8c0@duocore>

Bob,

Yes, I understand that some Lipno church records are in the EZA.  Is is possible a set of duplicate books ended up in EZA Berlin?

There also are some Lipno church records in the Wloclawek branch of the Torun Archives.  The Pradziad shows Evangelical birth records from 1809 to 1906 but it does not state on their wesite that any have been filmed, although some years (years 1808 to 1865) were microfilmed in 1969 and 1970 by the LDS when the records were in the Bydgoszcz archives at that time. 

I believe the majority of the church records which were in Congress Poland area, are in Polish State Archives.  But I could be wrong too.

Rose Ingram 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Krampetz at aol.com 
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Cc: roseingram at shaw.ca 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for father


  Hi all:
      I'm new here & started looking over recent past  emails.  
   
      Re the Subject line,  I'm surprized that EZAB.DE  wasn't mentioned..
      EZA has (suposedly) all the eastern Europe Lutheran  church records 
  from the
      days when Germans, & their churches,  were  expelled from Polish & 
  other 
      territories after WWII.
   
      I recently found their site,  emailed them with my  gfather's name, 
  birth city
      (it was wrong) & birthday (it was wrong  too)  his brother's info 
  (which was
      Lipno & right), and two siblings names (I had  just discovered 
  searching Ellis
       Island records.)
      They emailed back in less than 24 hours with the names  of of his 8 
  siblings! 
       They mentioned several Krampitz families in Lipno,  but the given 
  names matched,
        though they couldn't find my  gfather's.
      When I gave them the correct names of his parents  (they had a 
  different one)
      it  took them another 24 hours to find my  gfather's record, his 
  mother's death,
      and the remarriage of his father.
       2 hrs & copying charges came to a bit over  100Euros.  Once I 
  confirmed that 
       I wanted copies,  they mailed  the  package & I received in about a 
  week+ later.  
       Which was  *BEFORE* I sent the wire  transfer.
       (& have the right bank & there's no  fees!)..
      
       Check them out before you go to any archives that  want payment before 
  they
        tell you anything.
   
     Bob Krampetz,  
      Researching Krampitz
  P.S.  I  have new information for the master list once I figure  out how to 
  add all
        that info in a form that's  wanted.     


From colnels at telus.net  Wed May 13 20:49:19 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:49:19 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record
	for	father
In-Reply-To: <cce.4ea4bc19.373ce1f2@aol.com>
References: <cce.4ea4bc19.373ce1f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c9d446$f62726d0$e2757470$@net>

Hi Bob:
What was their site?
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Krampetz at aol.com
Sent: May-13-09 8:55 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Cc: roseingram at shaw.ca
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
father


Hi all:
    I'm new here & started looking over recent past  emails.  
 
    Re the Subject line,  I'm surprized that EZAB.DE  wasn't mentioned..
    EZA has (suposedly) all the eastern Europe Lutheran  church records from
the
    days when Germans, & their churches,  were  expelled from Polish & other

    territories after WWII.
 
    I recently found their site,  emailed them with my  gfather's name,
birth city
    (it was wrong) & birthday (it was wrong  too)  his brother's info (which
was
    Lipno & right), and two siblings names (I had  just discovered searching
Ellis
     Island records.)
    They emailed back in less than 24 hours with the names  of of his 8
siblings! 
     They mentioned several Krampitz families in Lipno,  but the given names
matched,
      though they couldn't find my  gfather's.
    When I gave them the correct names of his parents  (they had a different
one)
    it  took them another 24 hours to find my  gfather's record, his
mother's death,
    and the remarriage of his father.
     2 hrs & copying charges came to a bit over  100Euros.  Once I confirmed
that 
     I wanted copies,  they mailed  the  package & I received in about a 
week+ later.  
     Which was  *BEFORE* I sent the wire  transfer.
     (& have the right bank & there's no  fees!)..
    
     Check them out before you go to any archives that  want payment before
they
      tell you anything.
 
   Bob Krampetz,  
    Researching Krampitz
P.S.  I  have new information for the master list once I figure  out how to
add all
      that info in a form that's  wanted.     
 
**************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant
savings! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=htt
p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi)

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.27/2112 - Release Date: 05/13/09
18:04:00



From joepessarra at suddenlink.net  Thu May 14 02:19:45 2009
From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 04:19:45 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] [PHISH]Re: Plock Lutheran Church birth
	record	for	father
In-Reply-To: <000401c9d446$f62726d0$e2757470$@net>
References: <cce.4ea4bc19.373ce1f2@aol.com>
	<000401c9d446$f62726d0$e2757470$@net>
Message-ID: <001201c9d475$1f1a4fd0$5d4eef70$@net>

Nelson,

Here is the site.

http://ezab.de/

Joe in Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Nelson
Itterman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:49 PM
To: Krampetz at aol.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Cc: roseingram at shaw.ca
Subject: [PHISH]Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record
for father

Hi Bob:
What was their site?
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Krampetz at aol.com
Sent: May-13-09 8:55 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Cc: roseingram at shaw.ca
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
father


Hi all:
    I'm new here & started looking over recent past  emails.  
 
    Re the Subject line,  I'm surprized that EZAB.DE  wasn't mentioned..
tserv



From bronklimach at gmail.com  Thu May 14 03:16:49 2009
From: bronklimach at gmail.com (Bronwyn Klimach)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:16:49 +0100
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
	father
In-Reply-To: <017001c9d445$a07fece0$6601a8c0@duocore>
References: <cce.4ea4bc19.373ce1f2@aol.com>
	<017001c9d445$a07fece0$6601a8c0@duocore>
Message-ID: <129d86830905140316y63acdcbaqba97b893e37c9758@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bob and Rose,
I've looked at the EZA site many times hoping that records I cannot find
elsewhere might turn up there.  No joy to date...  Am I correct in thinking
that their holdings, certainly for Congress Poland, are fewer than Polish
Archives and the Mormons?  Is there any/much overlap of records held by EZA
with these other places?  I notice that very similar records for Christburg
(Kr Stuhm) are held by all three, however none have records for nearby Alt
Christburg (Kr Mohrungen) - the place of interest to me.
It is great to read of your success with these Archives Bob, and their
prompt service.  I've heard very little about people using the EZA and their
results.  This is certainly a resource that should be mentioned more often
for folk struggling to find he location of records.
Bronwyn.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Rose Ingram <roseingram at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Yes, I understand that some Lipno church records are in the EZA.  Is is
> possible a set of duplicate books ended up in EZA Berlin?
>
> There also are some Lipno church records in the Wloclawek branch of the
> Torun Archives.  The Pradziad shows Evangelical birth records from 1809 to
> 1906 but it does not state on their wesite that any have been filmed,
> although some years (years 1808 to 1865) were microfilmed in 1969 and 1970
> by the LDS when the records were in the Bydgoszcz archives at that time.
>
> I believe the majority of the church records which were in Congress Poland
> area, are in Polish State Archives.  But I could be wrong too.
>
> Rose Ingram
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Krampetz at aol.com
>  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
>  Cc: roseingram at shaw.ca
>  Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:54 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
> father
>
>
>   Hi all:
>      I'm new here & started looking over recent past  emails.
>
>      Re the Subject line,  I'm surprized that EZAB.DE <http://ezab.de/> wasn't mentioned..
>      EZA has (suposedly) all the eastern Europe Lutheran  church records
>  from the
>      days when Germans, & their churches,  were  expelled from Polish &
>  other
>      territories after WWII.
>
>      I recently found their site,  emailed them with my  gfather's name,
>  birth city
>      (it was wrong) & birthday (it was wrong  too)  his brother's info
>  (which was
>      Lipno & right), and two siblings names (I had  just discovered
>  searching Ellis
>       Island records.)
>      They emailed back in less than 24 hours with the names  of of his 8
>  siblings!
>       They mentioned several Krampitz families in Lipno,  but the given
>  names matched,
>        though they couldn't find my  gfather's.
>      When I gave them the correct names of his parents  (they had a
>  different one)
>      it  took them another 24 hours to find my  gfather's record, his
>  mother's death,
>      and the remarriage of his father.
>       2 hrs & copying charges came to a bit over  100Euros.  Once I
>  confirmed that
>       I wanted copies,  they mailed  the  package & I received in about a
>  week+ later.
>       Which was  *BEFORE* I sent the wire  transfer.
>       (& have the right bank & there's no  fees!)..
>
>       Check them out before you go to any archives that  want payment
> before
>  they
>        tell you anything.
>
>     Bob Krampetz,
>      Researching Krampitz
>  P.S.  I  have new information for the master list once I figure  out how
> to
>  add all
>        that info in a form that's  wanted.
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>


From dr.stewner at t-online.de  Thu May 14 09:22:19 2009
From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:22:19 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
Message-ID: <9877E8F9DC6C4792BFDDFA31CEAA5F9E@Acer>

In the St. Petersburg file, now easily readable with familysearch.com "Record search -Pilot Site", I encountered the village Karolinowka in the Schitomir parish records of 1867 on page 504 or image 5.
Next village after Karolinowka is Heimthal. 
Up to now I was thinking that both were naming the same location together with Klein- und Mittel-Carolinchen, Stara-Buda and today Yasenivka.
I have the coordinates 50 34 19 N and 28 11 20 E.
Can anyone solve the puzzle?
Frank Stewner

From wbehr at bellsouth.net  Thu May 14 10:09:42 2009
From: wbehr at bellsouth.net (Bill Behrendt)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:09:42 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for
	father
References: <002501c9d26c$8892e900$0200000a@behrendtcdeb72>
	<4A088562.9000309@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c9d4b6$c87a6290$0200000a@behrendtcdeb72>

Gary suggested that I send an e-mail to the Plock Archives which I did.  I 
received back from them the attached file in Polish.  If someone would 
please translate what it says I would very much appreciate it.  I would 
suggest we try the following to prevent a number of people from spending 
time doing the translation:
1. If you can read Polish and can translate it for me, send me an e-mail at 
wbehr at bellsouth.net
2. If you are the first to respond, I will send back an acknowledgement to 
you and ask you to do the translation.
3. For any others after that I will let you know that someone has already 
volunteered to do the translation so you won't spend time on it for nothing.
Thanks to all.
Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Warner" <gary at warnerengineering.com>
To: "Bill Behrendt" <wbehr at bellsouth.net>
Cc: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plock Lutheran Church birth record for 
father


Bill,

According to maps of Poland, Maszewo is just at the outskirts of Plock.
I am not sure if there is a Lutheran church at Maszewo, but if not, then
the recording of the birth should have been in Plock. According to the
Pradziad database, the records for Plock are at

Archiwum Pa?stwowe w P?ocku
09-400 P?ock, ul. Kazimierza Wielkiego 9B
tel: (24) 262-24-91
fax: 262-24-91
email: archiwum at plock.com
www.archiwum.plock.com

Since there is an email address in the above address, I would send them
an email, in English, and ask if they can do a search for all children
whose given names were Eduard Waldemar, who were born in Maszewo on
September 14, 1898. They will likely respond to you in Polish, but that
can be translated by more than a few of the smart people on this mail
list. The response from the archives should tell you if they have that
record.

You will then have to figure out how to get some money wired to their
account. This last part is the hardest part, at least it has been for
me. I am sure that others on this list can provide you the best method
to transfer money to the archives, AFTER you get a response.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Bill Behrendt wrote:
> My father, Edward Waldemar (Behrendt) was born on September 14, 1898 in 
> Maszewo, Poland. I would like to get a copy of his birth record from the 
> Plock Evangelical church but do not know his father's name or his mother's 
> last name at that time. This is because some years after his birth, his 
> mother divorced the father and no one talked about the divorce. The name 
> Behrendt is the step-father's name that the family has used. Shortly 
> before my father passed away he told my brother about the divorce but did 
> not reveal what was his father's last name.
>
> >From what I can see the records from 1898 have not been microfilmed. How 
> >can I go about finding someone to research the Plock Evangelical Lutheran 
> >church books to locate and copy the birth record?
>
> Here are the details I know:
>
> Edward Waldemar ??? born September 14, 1898 in Maszewo, Poland
>
> Mother's Maiden Name: Justina Frei
>
> Father's name: unknown
>
> I would appreciate any help in how I could get the birth record.
>
> Bill Behrendt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 

From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Thu May 14 10:36:01 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:36:01 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <9877E8F9DC6C4792BFDDFA31CEAA5F9E@Acer>
References: <9877E8F9DC6C4792BFDDFA31CEAA5F9E@Acer>
Message-ID: <d0afe61910162.4a0c0221@shaw.ca>

Frank,

It might help to know the village name just before the Karolinowka entry as this might provide an indication of which direction the pastor was traveling as he collected the information.

I see two possibilities for this.? Others might have other suggestions.

1.? As the pastor made his rounds, he stopped at one of the several Karolinowka and then returned to Zhitomir.? On his next trip, he started at Heimtal.

2.? Place names like Karolinka and Karolinowka sometimes get confused or written down incorrectly.? There is a Karolinka about 15 km north of Heimtal.

Jerry



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" <dr.stewner at t-online.de>
Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:25 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

> In the St. Petersburg file, now easily readable with 
> familysearch.com "Record search -Pilot Site", I encountered the 
> village Karolinowka in the Schitomir parish records of 1867 on 
> page 504 or image 5.
> Next village after Karolinowka is Heimthal. 
> Up to now I was thinking that both were naming the same location 
> together with Klein- und Mittel-Carolinchen, Stara-Buda and 
> today Yasenivka.
> I have the coordinates 50 34 19 N and 28 11 20 E.
> Can anyone solve the puzzle?
> Frank Stewner
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From dr.stewner at t-online.de  Thu May 14 14:10:50 2009
From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:10:50 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
References: <9877E8F9DC6C4792BFDDFA31CEAA5F9E@Acer>
	<d0afe61910162.4a0c0221@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1D697BD681D340AE801F6261530500BB@Acer>

Jerry,
the pastor seams to have been gone from Lisky - Marianin - Heimthal - Rohrbach - Schitomir - Karolinowka (teacher Binting?) - Heimthal - Murawa.
Frank
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Frank 
  To: Dr. Frank Stewner 
  Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia


  Frank,

  It might help to know the village name just before the Karolinowka entry as this might provide an indication of which direction the pastor was traveling as he collected the information.

  I see two possibilities for this.  Others might have other suggestions.

  1.  As the pastor made his rounds, he stopped at one of the several Karolinowka and then returned to Zhitomir.  On his next trip, he started at Heimtal.

  2.  Place names like Karolinka and Karolinowka sometimes get confused or written down incorrectly.  There is a Karolinka about 15 km north of Heimtal.

  Jerry



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" <dr.stewner at t-online.de>
  Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:25 am
  Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
  To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org

  > In the St. Petersburg file, now easily readable with 
  > familysearch.com "Record search -Pilot Site", I encountered the 
  > village Karolinowka in the Schitomir parish records of 1867 on 
  > page 504 or image 5.
  > Next village after Karolinowka is Heimthal. 
  > Up to now I was thinking that both were naming the same location 
  > together with Klein- und Mittel-Carolinchen, Stara-Buda and 
  > today Yasenivka.
  > I have the coordinates 50 34 19 N and 28 11 20 E.
  > Can anyone solve the puzzle?
  > Frank Stewner
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
  > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
  > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
  > 

From Krampetz at aol.com  Thu May 14 15:37:16 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:37:16 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations
Message-ID: <cde.49b935af.373df71c@aol.com>


I've found google (_http://translate.google.com_ 
(http://translate.google.com) ) does a  very good job on translating
    Polish (though poor on German)
 
    If you have handwritten Polish or Russian,  
_http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml_ (http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml) 
     - a polish web site,  has volunteers that do  an excellent job..
      You will need to join.  Look for  "Pro?ba o przet?umaczenie tekstu z 
j?zyka 
       rosyjskiego" for Russian,  or the  "General Discussion (English)" 
for Polish
 
Bob 
 
 
In a message dated 5/14/2009 10:13:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
wbehr at bellsouth.net writes:

Gary  suggested that I send an e-mail to the Plock Archives which I did.  I 
 
received back from them the attached file in Polish.  If someone  would 
please translate what it says I would very much appreciate it.   I would 
suggest we try the following to prevent a number of people from  spending 
time doing the translation:
1. If you can read Polish and can  translate it for me, send me an e-mail 
at 
wbehr at bellsouth.net
2. If you  are the first to respond, I will send back an acknowledgement to 
you and  ask you to do the translation.
3. For any others after that I will let you  know that someone has already 
volunteered to do the translation so you  won't spend time on it for 
nothing.
Thanks to  all.
Bill

**************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after 
instant savings! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819460%3B36680227%3Bi)


From sofasurferlinux at charter.net  Thu May 14 17:34:14 2009
From: sofasurferlinux at charter.net (daryl)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:34:14 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Stow Away gets name on ship list
Message-ID: <4A0CB886.5050505@charter.net>

I just want to share this very unuasual ship list with you.

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif.exe%3FT%3D\\\\192.168.4.226\\IMAGES\\T715-2452\\T715-24520515.TIF%26S%3D.5&pID=104952010128&name=Josef%26nbsp%3BTordoir&doa=Feb+15%2C+1916&port=Rotterdam%2C+Holland&line=0001 



From kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu  Thu May 14 18:20:17 2009
From: kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu (Ken Browne)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:20:17 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations
In-Reply-To: <cde.49b935af.373df71c@aol.com>
References: <cde.49b935af.373df71c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4A0CC351.6090001@alumni.umass.edu>

Krampetz at aol.com wrote:
> I've found google (_http://translate.google.com_ 
> (http://translate.google.com) ) does a  very good job on translating
>     Polish (though poor on German)
>  
>   
I've used google translate even for English to German and not knowing 
German  I can't say it was good or bad but posting the translations got 
results!

I have several documents in Polish that I would love to get translated 
and will try this site but will I need to enable a Polish type keyboard 
in order to enter the various diacritical marks that pop up in Polish?

Thanks for the lead.

Ken Browne

Kenneth Browne researching:
BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF
LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL
NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE


>     If you have handwritten Polish or Russian,  
> _http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml_ (http://www.genealodzy.pl/Forum.phtml) 
>      - a polish web site,  has volunteers that do  an excellent job..
>       You will need to join.  Look for  "Pro?ba o przet?umaczenie tekstu z 
> j?zyka 
>        rosyjskiego" for Russian,  or the  "General Discussion (English)" 
> for Polish
>  
>   





From udo-edelgard at freenet.de  Fri May 15 05:31:08 2009
From: udo-edelgard at freenet.de (Edelgard Strobel)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:31:08 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations
References: <cde.49b935af.373df71c@aol.com> <4A0CC351.6090001@alumni.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <5F0BDB8835544B1EA231CC7B24E1C6E6@UdosXPhome>

Hi Ken,

on this website you can find a virtual Polish keyboard 

http://www.5goldig.de/Polnische_Tastatur/polnisch_keyboard.html 

Greetings from Germany,

Edelgard

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Browne" <kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu>
To: <Krampetz at aol.com>
Cc: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations


> I have several documents in Polish that I would love to get translated 
> and will try this site but will I need to enable a Polish type keyboard 
> in order to enter the various diacritical marks that pop up in Polish?
> 
at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From ceo at ametric.com  Fri May 15 07:05:47 2009
From: ceo at ametric.com (John Bettger)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:05:47 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations
In-Reply-To: <5F0BDB8835544B1EA231CC7B24E1C6E6@UdosXPhome>
References: <cde.49b935af.373df71c@aol.com> <4A0CC351.6090001@alumni.umass.edu>
	<5F0BDB8835544B1EA231CC7B24E1C6E6@UdosXPhome>
Message-ID: <AEE43B406990764EB823107FB46D447C01DCCF0217AD@Server.ametric.com>

Thanks Edelgard. This is a great website tool. I just purchased a Ukrainian/Russian keyboard. The virtual keyboard would have worked just as well.

Best Regards
John Leon Bettger
email address  ceo at ametric.com

Researching Waterloo South Russia (Stavki Ukraine) Odessa (city) South Russia (Odessa Ukraine) at 67 Ekaterininskaya Square (at the top of Potemkin Steps) Slowik (near Lodz) Koenigreich Poland/Prussia Gruenstadt Bavaria (Worms Germany) Neubrandenburg, Mecklenburg-Strelitz Prussia/Germany
NAMES: Bettger, Boettcher, Huhn, Schindler


-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Edelgard Strobel
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:31 AM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations

Hi Ken,

on this website you can find a virtual Polish keyboard

http://www.5goldig.de/Polnische_Tastatur/polnisch_keyboard.html

Greetings from Germany,

Edelgard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Browne" <kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu>
To: <Krampetz at aol.com>
Cc: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translations


> I have several documents in Polish that I would love to get translated
> and will try this site but will I need to enable a Polish type keyboard
> in order to enter the various diacritical marks that pop up in Polish?
>
at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00



From jfrauchert at shaw.ca  Fri May 15 14:45:25 2009
From: jfrauchert at shaw.ca (John Rauchert)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:45:25 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1242414002.24834.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <7rpd3f$31qtob@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>

Dale Lee Wahl's Long German Russian Village List seems to come to the same
conclusion as Jerry (that Karolinka and Karolinowka are the same place).

http://www.odessa3.org/collections/refs/link/villhelp.txt

Village: Karolinka
Other Identification: Baraschi
Parish: Heimthal
remarks: aka Karolinowka




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Frank 
  To: Dr. Frank Stewner 
  Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
  Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia


  Frank,

  It might help to know the village name just before the Karolinowka entry
as this might provide an indication of which direction the pastor was
traveling as he collected the information.

  I see two possibilities for this.  Others might have other suggestions.

  1.  As the pastor made his rounds, he stopped at one of the several
Karolinowka and then returned to Zhitomir.  On his next trip, he started at
Heimtal.

  2.  Place names like Karolinka and Karolinowka sometimes get confused or
written down incorrectly.  There is a Karolinka about 15 km north of
Heimtal.

  Jerry





From colnels at telus.net  Fri May 15 17:59:11 2009
From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:59:11 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia
In-Reply-To: <7rpd3f$31qtob@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
References: <mailman.1.1242414002.24834.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<7rpd3f$31qtob@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <000c01c9d5c1$86edddf0$94c999d0$@net>

My grandmother Anna Karoline Henkel was born there in 1848. All I know is
that herr father was Michal.
I don't know who her mother was.
Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of John
Rauchert
Sent: May-15-09 3:45 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia


Dale Lee Wahl's Long German Russian Village List seems to come to the same
conclusion as Jerry (that Karolinka and Karolinowka are the same place).

http://www.odessa3.org/collections/refs/link/villhelp.txt

Village: Karolinka
Other Identification: Baraschi
Parish: Heimthal
remarks: aka Karolinowka




  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jerry Frank
  To: Dr. Frank Stewner
  Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
  Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Karolinowka in Volhynia


  Frank,

  It might help to know the village name just before the Karolinowka entry
as this might provide an indication of which direction the pastor was
traveling as he collected the information.

  I see two possibilities for this.  Others might have other suggestions.

  1.  As the pastor made his rounds, he stopped at one of the several
Karolinowka and then returned to Zhitomir.  On his next trip, he started at
Heimtal.

  2.  Place names like Karolinka and Karolinowka sometimes get confused or
written down incorrectly.  There is a Karolinka about 15 km north of
Heimtal.

  Jerry




_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in
Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at
http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/15/09
06:16:00



From sofasurferlinux at charter.net  Fri May 15 21:33:50 2009
From: sofasurferlinux at charter.net (daryl)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:33:50 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] How to find passenger lists returning to
	europe
Message-ID: <4A0E422E.2010803@charter.net>

In searching for immigrate relative I came across to strange manifests. 
On April 19, 1905 Karoline Harke came to the U.S. with 2 children, 
Emelie and Emma. On May ?, 1905 Karoline Harke came to the U.S. with 2 
children, Friedrick and Emma.

This confused me bacause of the similarities especially when, on both 
manifests, they were listed on lines 4, 5 and 6. And on both manifests 
they were traveling to the same address.

Turns out that their husbands were brothers. Both brothers were married 
to a Karoline. The families were previously living in U.S. and the wives 
apparently traveled back to their original homelands of Plock and 
Bobrowniki, I assume to show the children to their Grandfathers. After 
what I assume was a month or two visit (because they listed there 
previous residences as Bobrowniki and Plock) they returned to the U.S.

I found this to be very interesting and a bit of a mystery for a time.
My question is, how do I find the ship list from when they left America 
to return to Poland?


From albertmuth at aol.com  Fri May 15 23:20:33 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:20:33 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] How to find passenger lists returning to
	europe
In-Reply-To: <4A0E422E.2010803@charter.net>
References: <4A0E422E.2010803@charter.net>
Message-ID: <8CBA4058DAD0E24-4F8-1D6E@WEBMAIL-DY06.sysops.aol.com>

To my knowledge, there are no passenger lists going in the reverse direction,
from North America back to Europe. ?At least, none seem to have?

been made available for genealogical purposes.



In my own family, like yours, there are two such cases.




In 1906, I believe, my grandfather Michael Muth's first wife Juliane Eichhorst

returned to the old country, presumably to visit family, perhaps her father

who may still have been living in Godziembow or in Zezulin, where he was

to die (per EWZ records). ?Since she had been in Detroit since the late

1880's and was now an American citizen, I was able to get a copy of her

passport application from the National Archives in Washington, DC.




The second case took place a few short years later, after the death of Juliane.

My grandfather married my grandmother Emma Minnie Panzlau 29 May 1911

and chose to use the family savings to take her on a honeymoon back to

the old country. ?This did not go over so well with his adult children, for any number

of reasons that you can readily imagine. ?Again, I was able to get a copy

of my grandfather's application for a passport. ?In his case, it was particularly

important to him to carry this document, since he had emigrated to

avoid military service in the Russian Army and he had not left the Russian

empire?legally (he crossed the border with Germany hidden in a hay?

wagon with first wife Juliane?and two infants).




My grandfather's passport ap
plication turned out to be a crucial piece

of evidence for my genealogical research. ?It is the only document at all

that bears the (misspelled) name of his birth village in Central Poland?

(Rybno, spelled "Ribno"), in the area of?Przedecz Lutheran Church. ?

My oldest two aunts knew they were born?in Malin?wka in the?

1880's (in the Lubllin region), but no one remembered?where?

the family?had lived previously.




So, while I do not know the date on which Michael and Emma?

left for their honeymoon, I am able to pinpoint the date of their return

to New York since they are on a passenger manifest, such as what

you have found.




Every time I tell the story, I feel the need to mention, oh yes, by

the way, my grandfather would have been 96 when I was born. I am

the youngest grandchild, etc etc. ?I am not getting any younger,

but I am not THAT old.




Al Muth

Livonia, MI












-----Original Message-----
From: daryl <sofasurferlinux at charter.net>
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:33 am
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] How to find passenger lists returning to europe








In searching for immigrate relative I came across to strange manifests. 
On April 19, 1905 Karoline Harke came to the U.S. with 2 children, 
Emelie and Emma. On May ?, 1905 Karoline Harke came to the U.S. with 2 
children, Friedrick and Emma.

This confused me bacause of the similarities especially when, on both=2
0
manifests, they were listed on lines 4, 5 and 6. And on both manifests 
they were traveling to the same address.

Turns out that their husbands were brothers. Both brothers were married 
to a Karoline. The families were previously living in U.S. and the wives 
apparently traveled back to their original homelands of Plock and 
Bobrowniki, I assume to show the children to their Grandfathers. After 
what I assume was a month or two visit (because they listed there 
previous residences as Bobrowniki and Plock) they returned to the U.S.

I found this to be very interesting and a bit of a mystery for a time.
My question is, how do I find the ship list from when they left America 
to return to Poland?

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



 







From robinquilter at gmail.com  Fri May 15 23:41:57 2009
From: robinquilter at gmail.com (Robin Grube)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] translations
Message-ID: <d61d61810905152341n1551ffdam52eb9ce9e69cc442@mail.gmail.com>

Hi- I read this site, but rarely contribute, as I'm still learning. But I
just thought I would mention the Steve Morse site for typing diacritical
marks, etc. I just type in the few letters I know I'll be using in an email
or document, then copy them, and paste into my document.
http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/virtual.html     I don't know why it has
"Hebrew" in the site address  Robin Grube


From lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca  Sat May 16 08:22:35 2009
From: lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca (Susie Lewis)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:22:35 +0000
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Two different people or the same person
In-Reply-To: <4A0E422E.2010803@charter.net>
References: <4A0E422E.2010803@charter.net>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W22150EEE220B32F8683A44CB5C0@phx.gbl>


It amazes me how many times, back in those days, that two brothers married either two sisters or two girls with the same first name and further more to have both families with the same last name pregnant around the same time and then give their newborns the same first name.  They must have thought that this was amusing back then.
It is really confusing when individuals names are the same, birth dates are a week or so off, the parents don't 100% match but the grandparents are identical.   Was one parent using a first name in one record and a middle name on the other?  What about the date?  Calendar difference? Is it the same person?  It seems like a number of us have pondered this conundrum of finding an additional record and wondering if it is the same person or not.
In my case it turned out, I had two brothers who married two sisters in a double wedding (same wedding date) and then they got pregnant a week apart from each other and then gave their new born daughters the same first name.  Here though, it was fortunate that these two brothers and their families lived in two different towns but only a couple of minutes away from each other (different birth towns for the identically named newborns).  Further children where thankfully given different names.
I had another case where two brothers married two girls with totally different names but when one family had an infant die the other named their next new born after the child that had died, then the same thing happened again but in reverse.   It took a while to figure out who lived, who had died and who belonged to whom.
If anyone is pondering such a case it is good to know that these kind of things did happened a number of times in the 1800 & early 1900's in the Lublin area.
Even today 2009 in North America, I know a family of four boys, three of which married girls named Laurie! (but I must add that particular family descended from Germans from former Russian areas)  This kind of humor may be genetic.  :)



> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:33:50 -0400
> From: sofasurferlinux at charter.net
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] How to find passenger lists returning to	europe
> 
> In searching for immigrate relative I came across to strange manifests. 
> On April 19, 1905 Karoline Harke came to the U.S. with 2 children, 
> Emelie and Emma. On May ?, 1905 Karoline Harke came to the U.S. with 2 
> children, Friedrick and Emma.
> 
> This confused me bacause of the similarities especially when, on both 
> manifests, they were listed on lines 4, 5 and 6. And on both manifests 
> they were traveling to the same address.
> 
> Turns out that their husbands were brothers. Both brothers were married 
> to a Karoline. The families were previously living in U.S. and the wives 
> apparently traveled back to their original homelands of Plock and 
> Bobrowniki, I assume to show the children to their Grandfathers. After 
> what I assume was a month or two visit (because they listed there 
> previous residences as Bobrowniki and Plock) they returned to the U.S.
> 
> I found this to be very interesting and a bit of a mystery for a time.
> My question is, how do I find the ship list from when they left America 
> to return to Poland?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de  Sat May 16 14:29:06 2009
From: michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de (Michael Stockhausen)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:29:06 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom
Message-ID: <251C6447460146BAA6567BE6CFE5CAC2@name54xk1bba18>

Hi,

Does anyone know where a Lutheran couple living in Pajakow would have married? Would it have been in Radom?

Ferdinand CERECKI / ZERETZKE and Julianne SCHROEDER probably married about 1881/1882.  She was probably baptized in Radom in 1862.


Michael

From wilke013 at umn.edu  Sun May 17 20:07:37 2009
From: wilke013 at umn.edu (Jane Wilkens)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:07:37 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
Message-ID: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>

My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a  
ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but  
my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz  
Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while  
living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?


From mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com  Sun May 17 21:43:12 2009
From: mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com (Mauricio Norenberg)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:43:12 +1200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <67e3c660905172142y4c3ab4c2i3fd8e3c7405c40e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
	<67e3c660905172142y4c3ab4c2i3fd8e3c7405c40e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67e3c660905172143n1f3f62ffoed122203b2cfd44f@mail.gmail.com>

My great grandfather had to serve Russian Army before come to Brazil.I'm
wondering if have some archive about Russian Army?

Regards

2009/5/18 Jane Wilkens <wilke013 at umn.edu>

My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a
> ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but
> my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz
> Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be
> drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.
> I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while
> living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>


From lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca  Sun May 17 21:49:44 2009
From: lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca (Susie Lewis)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 04:49:44 +0000
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W27D8B61E20BEDC1784D64CCB5A0@phx.gbl>


Yes, apparently Germans born in Russia were subject to the draft.  I know of a family of three brothers who where ethnic Germans born in German colonies in Poland which at the time was part of the Russian Empire.  For years I had been under the impression that they had been in the German army but to my surprise, I discovered that all three of them had actually been drafted into the Russian army in World War 1.  

> From: wilke013 at umn.edu
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:07:37 -0500
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
> 
> My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a  
> ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but  
> my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz  
> Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
> drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
> I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while  
> living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv


From rbloch at lataenv.com  Mon May 18 05:55:35 2009
From: rbloch at lataenv.com (Bloch, Ray)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:55:35 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <BLU130-W27D8B61E20BEDC1784D64CCB5A0@phx.gbl>
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
	<BLU130-W27D8B61E20BEDC1784D64CCB5A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <99E0EA11A5C94340B8707A56EFE055410519875B@COL-MAIL.SHARP_DOMAIN.sharpenv.com>

My grandfather was inducted into the Russian army in 1914 and was in the
front lines fighting against the Germans.  The story related to me by my
uncle was that during lulls in the battles the opposing sides would meet
under a flag of truce.  During these truces, the Germans would try to
entice the Russian Germans to defect and in many instances, this
occurred.  My grandfather didn't cross over because he had met my
grandmother and was engaged to be married.  After this occurred numerous
times, the Russian command took the Russian Germans and sent them to the
Caucuses where my grandfather was then fighting the Turks.  He was
wounded and returned to the Ukraine where he married my grandmother.

In WWII my oldest uncle was inducted into the Red Army in 1940.  When
war broke out they took the ethnic Germans and moved them to logging
camps in Siberia.  He was a metalsmith by trade so his skills were not
needed there and they moved him to the coal mines of the southern Urals
and his family remains there to this day.  The fact that he had a trade
saved his life.

Ray 

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Susie Lewis
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:50 AM
To: wilke013 at umn.edu; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
[bayes]


Yes, apparently Germans born in Russia were subject to the draft.  I
know of a family of three brothers who where ethnic Germans born in
German colonies in Poland which at the time was part of the Russian
Empire.  For years I had been under the impression that they had been in
the German army but to my surprise, I discovered that all three of them
had actually been drafted into the Russian army in World War 1.  

> From: wilke013 at umn.edu
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:07:37 -0500
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
> 
> My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a  
> ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but  
> my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz  
> Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
> drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
> I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while

> living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From mackzie at earthlink.net  Mon May 18 06:46:48 2009
From: mackzie at earthlink.net (Beth Burke)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:46:48 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <001601c9d7bf$18936cd0$49ba4670$@net>

Jane....I would say that they were subject to the draft.  My mother's family
has a similar story.  Her parents, Gustav and Bertha (Lieske) Friedrich paid
a Russian soldier to cross a river at night so they could avoid his being
drafted.  They eventually sailed out of Hamburg, landed at Ellis Island,
went to Canada (Leduc area), where they stayed with what I suspect was
family (Ludwig Liske) through the harvest.  They returned to the USA and
settled in northeastern Wisconsin (Gillett).  They did this all with their
first born son (Emil) and my grandmother's 12 year old brother (August
Lieske).

Talk about determination....

Beth Burke
Verona, Wisconsin
Researching Lieske, Friedrich, Pinkowski, Zellmer, Glor, Dietz and long list
of other ancestors.    



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jane
Wilkens
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:08 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army

My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a  
ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but  
my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz  
Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while  
living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From gpvjem at sasktel.net  Mon May 18 07:01:48 2009
From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:01:48 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <99BECF9B531247969527174116A4B397@Marsh>

    My paternal grandfather served 5 1/2 years in the Russian army during the years 1878 to 1884 as a commissioned officer and Paymaster.  He was well educated and  multi-lingual, which was likely why he served in that role.   
    He was born in Poland but had to return there from Volhynia where he had moved with his parents as he put it "to fulfill his military duty".
    In 1905 his father in Volhynia, my g-grandfather, wrote to him (now in Canada), the following;
The Russian-Japanese war has caused a great deal of stress in our communities.  Many men have already been called into the army to become occupation troops and have been sent to the far east having to leave behind their wives, children, parents and their farms.  
    He goes on to describe the hardships resulting from the departure of the able bodied men.

John Marsch

------------------------------------------------------

  My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a  
  ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but  
  my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz  
  Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
  drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
  I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while  
  living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?


From gmason001 at comcast.net  Mon May 18 08:47:53 2009
From: gmason001 at comcast.net (Greg Mason)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:47:53 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <001601c9d7bf$18936cd0$49ba4670$@net>
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
	<001601c9d7bf$18936cd0$49ba4670$@net>
Message-ID: <6AAB89B8-2F33-4AE5-875E-DD621519592B@comcast.net>

List:  Very interesting topic.  I cannot speak for the Volhynian  
Germans, but Germans who lived in Central Poland were subject to  
compulsory  Russian military service during the time that Russia ruled  
the area.  My wife's grandfather was discharged from the Russian Army  
on 13 October 1901 in Nieschawa and was then assigned to the second- 
rank militia of the Nieschawa district.  (I assume this was similar to  
our national guard.)   He migrated legally to the United States in  
1906 so we assume that he had completed his military obligation by  
that time.  I do not know how long his service with the Russian Army  
was nor do I have any information concerning his rank, duties, etc.
Greg Mason
On May 18, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Beth Burke wrote:

> Jane....I would say that they were subject to the draft.  My  
> mother's family
> has a similar story.  Her parents, Gustav and Bertha (Lieske)  
> Friedrich paid
> a Russian soldier to cross a river at night so they could avoid his  
> being
> drafted.  They eventually sailed out of Hamburg, landed at Ellis  
> Island,
> went to Canada (Leduc area), where they stayed with what I suspect was
> family (Ludwig Liske) through the harvest.  They returned to the USA  
> and
> settled in northeastern Wisconsin (Gillett).  They did this all with  
> their
> first born son (Emil) and my grandmother's 12 year old brother (August
> Lieske).
>
> Talk about determination....
>
> Beth Burke
> Verona, Wisconsin
> Researching Lieske, Friedrich, Pinkowski, Zellmer, Glor, Dietz and  
> long list
> of other ancestors.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of  
> Jane
> Wilkens
> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:08 PM
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
>
> My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a
> ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but
> my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz
> Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be
> drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.
> I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while
> living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From lgitzel at telusplanet.net  Mon May 18 10:07:40 2009
From: lgitzel at telusplanet.net (Leo Gitzel)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:07:40 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Service in Russian Army
Message-ID: <6607FB3460074C43ADA85BFC3B41203F@SCTCAS23>

My Father who was born in Marcelowka (about 10 miles form Vladimir-Volysnky) did two years mandatory service  in the Russian Army. According to his discharge papers, which I have, he was discharged November 1,1910 although he was subject to recall until age 43.  A year later he, my Mother and their only child at that time left for Canada --thank goodness.
My Grandfather and Grandmother Friedrch and Louise (Ginter) Gietzel decided, unfortunately, not to come and I am at a loss as to what happened to them . Can some one give me a clue as to were to start looking ?

Leo Gitzel



Leo Gitzel


From fenenga at connpoint.net  Mon May 18 11:45:58 2009
From: fenenga at connpoint.net (fenenga@connpoint.net)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:45:58 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
Message-ID: <50366.1242672358@connpoint.net>

  

	this was a very interesting read, but I wonder if this was the case
for earlier generations? my great grandfather seems to have come from
Russian Poland. I can't prove this, but medical records say he was
born in Russia, and vital records (marriage and son's birth) say he
was born in Poland. his birth was in 1855, and it is said that at
some point after that the family removed to England. I can't prove
that, either. his wife's second husband burned many of the family
papers, and the paper trail most genealogists use is slim at best, so
finding him has been difficult. his name is a common one, both in it's
original spelling and the Anglicised spelling.  

	I wonder if the family left for that reason, or if they were
expelled when it was no longer ok for Germans to live there. 

	Cornelia 

	 

From gary at warnerengineering.com  Mon May 18 11:59:45 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:59:45 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4A11B021.1070708@warnerengineering.com>

Jane,

My guess is that the village you note below is really
Michajlowka (Michalowka/Mikhailivka), Zhytomyr, Zhytomyr, Russian Empire 
(Ukraine).  
If so, that village is a few kilometers west of Zhitomir.

If that is the village, would you mind telling me what family names of 
yours are associated with that village, as my family had ties to that 
village.

Just to add to the conversation about the Russian Army draft, my 
grandfather was drafted into the Russian Army in about 1888.   As the 
family story goes, at the end of 5 years, the way it was determined who 
got out of the army was by drawing straws.    I  assume that my 
grandfather drew the correct straw, as he got out and pretty quickly 
left for Canada.

Gary Warner
Gig Harbor, WA

Jane Wilkens wrote:
> My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a  
> ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but  
> my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz  
> Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
> drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
> I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while  
> living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net  Mon May 18 15:11:54 2009
From: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net (GARY.RUPPERT@comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:11:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <mailman.88.1242666501.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <168420168.10186841242684714127.JavaMail.root@sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>



This is a very interesting topic and one that I had not previously given much thought to. I'm wondering if there are any available records that have survived or are accessible from this side of the Atlantic? Any input is appreciated. 



THANKs 



Gary 

18 May 2009 
Baltimore 


From deloresstevens at sasktel.net  Mon May 18 16:56:20 2009
From: deloresstevens at sasktel.net (Delores Stevens)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:56:20 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
References: <B4B2811C-767E-40DF-BC81-32A7B06CB9A2@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <006801c9d814$3e8b4570$4398c5d8@Delores>

My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in 1900 in May and landing at 
Quebec.  He was 20 years old at the time.  The reason given was that he 
wanted to avoid the draft into the Russian army.

My other gr grandfather came in 1895 to Neche, ND after having served in the 
Russian Army and being discharged.  He too came from Volhynia.

Delores Maduke
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

researching:  Wutzke, Drager/Draeger/Dreger, Donat, Engwer and others 



From gstelter at uoguelph.ca  Mon May 18 18:47:16 2009
From: gstelter at uoguelph.ca (Gilbert A Stelter)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:47:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] land ownership in Volhynia
Message-ID: <1146124326.2866261242697636170.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca>

I have been wondering about the difficulties my ancestors had in owning land in Volhynia in the late 19th century. Michael Hamm's book, Kiev, 1800-1917, says that 90% of land was owned by Polish nobles in 1861. Is there any study which deals with this question? CAn one find out who the landlords were of specific families? 

Gil Stelter in Guelph, Ontario.
My wife and I are going to Ukraine and Poland in September and we plan to visit a number of villages in both countries that were the homes of my ancestors.


From hgillespie at rogers.com  Mon May 18 19:07:06 2009
From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
Message-ID: <535446.34649.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


I agree, this is an interesting topic.  My grandfather Emil Bethke also served in the Russian military - in the Czar's navy - or perhaps marines.  He was stationed in the Finland Basin at the time the Revolution broke out and returned to his home in Wolhynia - only to find that his mother and siblings had been deported to Siberia - as were other Germans in Russia.  

Presumably he located them through the newspapers which had listed many of the deportees and there whereabouts - my grandmother`s parents were among those listed in Richard Benert`s listing in the last issue of the newsletter.

Apparently he returned to get some kind of final pay - which was used to hire a railway wagon so that several families returned to their homes in Solomka (Friedrichsdorf) near Rovno.  

In that WWI - my grandmother`had two brothers who served in the armies - one on the Russian side and one on the Austro-Hungarian or German side - and they were from the same village!  Not quite sure how this was accomplished.  One survived, the other did not.



By the way - there are some Russian military photos on a Flickr page and one is of 3 military personnel.  There is writing on the back of one which the poster would love to have translated

Here``s the link to the photos  - http://www.flickr.com/photos/sunnybrook100/sets/72157615683192081/


The FEEFHS have a link to the Russian State Naval Archive that apparently lists all personnel from 1696 to 1940.  I don`t know anyone who has searched for ancestors in their system, but would be interested in locating my own grandfather, but I don`t know what his rank would have been nor what spelling they would have to search for.  The family name is BETHKE.

http://feefhs.org/members/blitz/blitzna.html

Here`s a site with a chronology and military history of Russia.  It`s in English.
http://www.russianwarrior.com/
 Some of the links are not active and others are commercial and/or questionable but there is a site with old military photos that might be of interest.

Helen

--- On Mon, 5/18/09, GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net <GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Received: Monday, May 18, 2009, 10:11 PM
> 
> 
> This is a very interesting topic and one that I had not
> previously given much thought to. I'm wondering if there are
> any available records that have survived or are accessible
> from this side of the Atlantic? Any input is appreciated. 
> 
> 
> 
> THANKs 
> 
> 
> 
> Gary 
> 
> 18 May 2009 
> Baltimore 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
> 


From benovich at imt.net  Mon May 18 22:55:01 2009
From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:55:01 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] land ownership in Volhynia
References: <1146124326.2866261242697636170.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca>
Message-ID: <000e01c9d846$5afd9b90$0500a8c0@richard01>

Others may have better answers to Gil's question about German and Polish 
land ownership than mine, but I'll offer what I can find in a few minutes of 
looking.  It's from a book by Theodore Weeks, "Nation and State in Late 
Imperial Russia. Nationalism and Russification on the Western Frontier, 
1863-1914" (1996).  He confirms (p. 225, n. 26) the 90% figure for 1861 and 
cites the archival source for it. It refers to the 3 Southwest Provinces 
(Kiev, Podolia and Volhynia).  But this is just before the 1863 Polish 
Rebellion.  The Tsarist reaction to this revolt was, among other forms of 
repression of Polish culture and dominance in the western provinces, to 
confiscate the estates of many rebellious Polish landowners (followed in 
some cases by deportation to inner Russia, a practice used on our Germans in 
1915) and, in 1865, to issue an edict forbidding the sale of land to Poles, 
an edict in force until 1905.  The results were partially effective, but 
were not what Russian nationalists desired.  According to a table on p. 87, 
Poles still owned 47.9% of the land in Volhynia in 1905 and 48.3% in 
Podolia.  If anyone is curious, they held 75% of the land in Kovno Province, 
73% in Vilna, 53.6% in Grodno, 49.7% in Minsk, 40.6% in Vitebsk and 33% in 
Mogilev. Most of the rest of the land was owned by Russians or Ukrainians.

I am not aware of any full-fledged treatment of German land ownership in 
English, except for an attempt I made a few years ago which one can find in 
the SGGEE JOURNAL, Sept. and Dec., 1999 and March, 2000.  I merely 
summarized the major work of Dietmar Neutatz in his "Die 'deutsche Frage' im 
Schwarzmeergebiet und in Wolhynien".  For those who can wait, La Vern 
Rippley is currently working on translating this book into English, as I 
think I've pointed out before.

Unfortunately, Neutatz's treatment deals only with the laws of land 
ownership, not with the realities of day-to-day living.  Michail Kostiuk 
gives a little insight into reality in his recent "Die deutschen Kolonien in 
Wolhynien" but only a little.  There is a crying need for some motivated 
scholar to scour the archives over there to try to piece together from 
actual land records the ins and outs of how German farmers coped with the 
restrictive laws, and perhaps got around them by fair means or foul, like 
buying through a proxy.

My guess, Gil, is that the names of individual landowners could be 
discovered, in some cases, by finding documents in the archives relating to 
land transactions with your family. I'd guess this would be difficult.  Of 
course some village histories are connected to known landowners on whose 
estates they were established.

Dick Benert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gilbert A Stelter" <gstelter at uoguelph.ca>
To: "Volhynia" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:47 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] land ownership in Volhynia


>I have been wondering about the difficulties my ancestors had in owning 
>land in Volhynia in the late 19th century. Michael Hamm's book, Kiev, 
>1800-1917, says that 90% of land was owned by Polish nobles in 1861. Is 
>there any study which deals with this question? CAn one find out who the 
>landlords were of specific families?
>
> Gil Stelter in Guelph, Ontario.
> My wife and I are going to Ukraine and Poland in September and we plan to 
> visit a number of villages in both countries that were the homes of my 
> ancestors.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Mon May 18 22:20:13 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 00:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <mailman.88.1242666501.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.88.1242666501.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <D9DFA40941C94DC1864BBD7B0D32C1AE@Desktop>

 I am likely a Canadian citizen today partly because of the Russian draft.
I pieced together this chain of events from several family sources.

My uncle Bill Schultz was born in New Jersey but shortly after birth the
family moved back to Poland to look after aging parents.  Bill grew up and
was drafted into the Russian army in the mid 1920s and did his time.  He did
not realize that as a US citizen he could have refused the draft.  After
getting out of the army, Bill decided to emigrate to the US where many of
our relatives had gone before.  However, because he had served in the
Russian Army he was denied entry to the US, even though he was (or maybe had
been) a US citizen.  He then chose Canada, liked it and invited his brothers
to join him.  My father was one of the brothers and had just turned 20 in
1928.  He wanted to avoid the draft so he high-tailed it to Canada to join
his brother.  Hence, I'm Canadian instead of American.

My maternal grandfather Emil Leichnitz also served in the Russian Army
around 1900.  I would love to be able to get access to his military records.

Earl


------------------------------------------------------

  My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a
  ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but
  my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz
  Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
  drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
  I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while
  living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?


------------------------------




From PGYOSH at aol.com  Tue May 19 06:10:19 2009
From: PGYOSH at aol.com (PGYOSH@aol.com)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:10:19 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 72,
	Issue 32
Message-ID: <ccd.56a770c1.374409bb@aol.com>

My grandfather also was drafted to serve in the Russian army in the late  
1880s into the 1890s.  He was from a small town near Sompolno in what  is now 
Poland. He served as a horsehandler and left a map on which he marked  
their route. After he got out, he found his wife had died so he married her  
younger sister (my grandmother). They heard the Russians would come back so 
most  of the extended family left to come to the United States at the end of 
the  1890s. I'm sure there must have been other reasons for leaving though.
 
Phyllis Yoshida
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May
Excfooter51609NO62)


From mackzie at earthlink.net  Tue May 19 07:35:12 2009
From: mackzie at earthlink.net (Beth Burke)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:35:12 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <D9DFA40941C94DC1864BBD7B0D32C1AE@Desktop>
References: <mailman.88.1242666501.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<D9DFA40941C94DC1864BBD7B0D32C1AE@Desktop>
Message-ID: <002901c9d88f$05f82040$11e860c0$@net>

I remember once when my mother referred to her father as a "draft dodger."
That was back when genealogy wasn't one of my interests, much less a
passion.  Knowing that my grandparents paid a Russian soldier to cross a
river at night, which was the start of their immigration journey, and now
hearing from many of you that there were other "dodgers", confirms one
thing.  We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to those "artful dodgers"
because what we have today is thanks to them!  Thanks Oma and Opa....

Beth Burke - Verona, Wisconsin
Researching:  Friedrich, Lieske, Pinkowski, Hammermeister, Glor, Zellmer,
Dietz and a slew of others

-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of
Earl.Schultz
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:20 AM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army

 I am likely a Canadian citizen today partly because of the Russian draft.
I pieced together this chain of events from several family sources.

My uncle Bill Schultz was born in New Jersey but shortly after birth the
family moved back to Poland to look after aging parents.  Bill grew up and
was drafted into the Russian army in the mid 1920s and did his time.  He did
not realize that as a US citizen he could have refused the draft.  After
getting out of the army, Bill decided to emigrate to the US where many of
our relatives had gone before.  However, because he had served in the
Russian Army he was denied entry to the US, even though he was (or maybe had
been) a US citizen.  He then chose Canada, liked it and invited his brothers
to join him.  My father was one of the brothers and had just turned 20 in
1928.  He wanted to avoid the draft so he high-tailed it to Canada to join
his brother.  Hence, I'm Canadian instead of American.

My maternal grandfather Emil Leichnitz also served in the Russian Army
around 1900.  I would love to be able to get access to his military records.

Earl


------------------------------------------------------

  My great grandfather emigrated from Volhynia in about 1896, taking a
  ship in May of that year.  I'm not 100% sure where he was living but
  my grandmother was born in the village of Michailoska in Kreiz
  Zhitomir in 1894.  According to family stories, he was about to be  
  drafted into an army and so left for America to escape this draft.   
  I'm curious if Germans were subject to a draft (and what army?) while
  living in Volhynia around that time.  Anyone know?


------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From draperpe at msu.edu  Tue May 19 09:20:33 2009
From: draperpe at msu.edu (draperpe@msu.edu)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:20:33 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian Army
Message-ID: <20090519122033.156337hyh599rdxt@mail.msu.edu>

My grandfather, Emil Pekrul, immigrated to Lansing, MI from Russian Poland in 1910 to avoid the draft.? His future father-in-law, Julius Getz, had served in the Russo-Japanese War, and had walked home after discharge, a LONG walk, following the Bsur river for part of the journey, and eventually reaching his farm in Michowice, Poland. A grandson raised on the Michowice farm, Michael Getz (Gotz), was conscripted into the Russian army during WWII as a 17 year old, and later immigrated to Canada with his family.? His Dad (Julius' son) had died in prison earlier during the war, caught helping his Jewish neighbors get into the Warsaw ghetto, thought of as a safe haven early in the war.? Michael's mother nearly died in a work camp, and expressed gratitude to an American soldier, for helping nurse her back to health upon release.? She was living with a German couple when a German soldier stopped by and asked her for a meal and if he could spend the night.? She was on her way to ask the home-owner, when she realized that it was her son, now an adult, who had found her.

Considering their experiences and hardships, one of millions of stories, I feel truly blessed and lucky to have?been raised?in the US post-World War II (knock on wood).

Penny Draper

From jfcmurphy at ntcnet.com  Tue May 19 12:27:55 2009
From: jfcmurphy at ntcnet.com (James Murphy)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:27:55 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian army
Message-ID: <CEFE47D3EF5A4EA79E8C2CE3023EE587@hal>

My grandfather, Karl Pidde, and his 5 brothers all immigrated to the U S between 1907-1914. Grandfather came when he was 21 and as each brother reached draft age, they came to the US.  Am sure it must have been to avoid the Draft.  However, I have found that all of them registered for the military in the US.  My grandfather did not serve in the military here, but do not know about his brothers. 
Carol Pidde Murphy
New York State

From Krampetz at aol.com  Tue May 19 16:18:43 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 19:18:43 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FYI  ...   land ownership in Volhynia
Message-ID: <c7e.2d6d0c91.37449853@aol.com>


A quick google search & I found that book..
_http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0875802168/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&c
ondition=used_ 
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0875802168/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used)  
         
Used, from  $7.48 to $131.94!

 
 
Bob K     (researching Krampitz ..)
 
 
In a message dated 5/18/2009 10:59:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
benovich at imt.net writes:

Others  may have better answers to Gil's question about German and Polish 
land  ownership than mine, but I'll offer what I can find in a few minutes 
of  
looking.  It's from a book by Theodore Weeks, "Nation and State in  Late 
Imperial Russia. Nationalism and Russification on the Western  Frontier, 

**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May
Excfooter51609NO62)


From jfrauchert at shaw.ca  Tue May 19 19:42:48 2009
From: jfrauchert at shaw.ca (John Rauchert)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:42:48 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
In-Reply-To: <mailman.91.1242739452.778.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <7rj0j3$48pqqa@pd5mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>

I would also be interested in available Military Records but a bit earlier.

Family Legend has it that a "Gottlieb" served in the Russian Army during the
Crimean War as part of an Artillery Unit (mixing powder??) and that he took
part in the Battle of Balaclava - 25 October 1854.  This would potentially
put him on the other side of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

I was told that it was Gottlieb Schlese but have since found out that his
parents were married in 1851 and even the Russian's didn't draft them that
young.

However, I did find a Gottlieb Rabsch born about 1830 in Blizna Wies, Kolo
(married Julianne Drewitz 21 Sep 1862 Konin) who was my Great Grandmother's
Brother who would fit the bill.

John F. Rauchert, Calgary, Alberta, Canada 


-----Original Message-----

Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:11:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: GARY.RUPPERT at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian army
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID:
	
<168420168.10186841242684714127.JavaMail.root at sz0029a.westchester.pa.mail.co
mcast.net>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8



This is a very interesting topic and one that I had not previously given
much thought to. I'm wondering if there are any available records that have
survived or are accessible from this side of the Atlantic? Any input is
appreciated. 



THANKs 



Gary 

18 May 2009 
Baltimore 




From benovich at imt.net  Wed May 20 16:27:34 2009
From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:27:34 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans drafted in Russian Army
Message-ID: <003c01c9d9a2$8e84ffa0$0500a8c0@richard01>

Several people have expressed a desire to see Russian military records.  I 
think that these are not something that one can get access to easily.  I 
hope I'm wrong, but I think one must visit the archives in Moscow or St. 
Petersburg.  There is what seems to be a recent address for the State 
Military Archive in Moscow at the following link.  Scroll down to near the 
bottom.  It also gives a phone number.
http://66.193.175.9/poland/Military_Records_Europe

Dick 
-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 5/18/2009 6:28 AM

From michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de  Thu May 21 04:03:55 2009
From: michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de (Michael Stockhausen)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:03:55 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian translation
Message-ID: <D862D14A7C1A4996973BFC9E901643A5@name54xk1bba18>

I have a copy of a birth record from Radom. It is written in Russian. Could someone kindy help me identify the birth date (year) and the birth place? I would send a scan. Thanks
Michael

From siegfried at familie-friedrich.de  Thu May 21 04:21:07 2009
From: siegfried at familie-friedrich.de (Siegfried Friedrich)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:21:07 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian translation
In-Reply-To: <D862D14A7C1A4996973BFC9E901643A5@name54xk1bba18>
References: <D862D14A7C1A4996973BFC9E901643A5@name54xk1bba18>
Message-ID: <4A153923.3070302@familie-friedrich.de>

Hallo Michael,

I'll try it. Please send a scan directly to me. You can write in german.

Siegfried (FRIEDRICH)


Michael Stockhausen schrieb:
> I have a copy of a birth record from Radom. It is written in Russian. Could someone kindy help me identify the birth date (year) and the birth place? I would send a scan. Thanks
> Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   



From petra at serwaty.de  Thu May 21 06:38:43 2009
From: petra at serwaty.de (Petra Serwaty)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 15:38:43 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Krenz from Szarlatowo/Kolo
Message-ID: <4A155963.5000101@serwaty.de>


-- 
www.serwaty.de


From petra at serwaty.de  Thu May 21 12:35:57 2009
From: petra at serwaty.de (Petra Serwaty)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:35:57 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Krenz from Szarlatowo/Kolo (Petra Serwaty)
Message-ID: <4A15AD1D.6030305@serwaty.de>

Hello,

my last mail could be elide. This mail shouldn't be send.
Sorry
Petra
-- 
www.serwaty.de


From Krampetz at aol.com  Thu May 21 13:05:57 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 16:05:57 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian translation
Message-ID: <d11.4e3ca459.37470e25@aol.com>

There are several volunteers on _http://www.genealodzy.pl/_ 
(http://www.genealodzy.pl/)  that can  translate
older handwritten Russian.   It is a 99% Polish site, though most  
understand 
English, and you do have to join.   I have excellent success with  about 14 
birth,
death & marriage documents from Lipno.
 
I'd have two browsers showing both the Polish and the (google)  translated 
version
of that site.   Post from the Polish version as it will fail in  the 
translated.
 
Bob
 
 
In a message dated 5/21/2009 4:07:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de writes:

I have a  copy of a birth record from Radom. It is written in Russian. 
Could someone  kindy help me identify the birth date (year) and the birth place? 
I would send  a scan. Thanks
Michael


**************Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221836042x1201399880/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.ne
t%2Fclk%3B215073686%3B37034322%3Bb)


From michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de  Thu May 21 14:16:18 2009
From: michael.stockhausen.ff at web.de (Michael Stockhausen)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 23:16:18 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zeretzke/Cerecki from Radom/Lublin/Chelm
Message-ID: <FFA834CCA3E14CF7A1F1CDC6AA81F97E@name54xk1bba18>

On the SGGEE database I found an entry on Karoline ZERETZKE (ID   I138919). It says she was born in Bolstawar on April 8, 1858. 
She was married to Daniel Schiewe and lived/died in Bekiesza, Kr Chelm, Lublin.

I have a few questions:
1. What is the source for the exact birth date?
2. Where could Bolstawar be? (perhaps Boleslawow or something similar)?
3. Which parish was in charge of Bekeisza - Lublin or Chelm (1860s-1880s-1900s)?


Besides:
4. Which Lutheran parish did Pajakow near Pulawy belong to - Radom???

For a friend in the USA I am searching for the marriage Ferdinand Cerecki / Julianne Schroeder, probably in Radom about 1881/82.  (And then Ferdinand's birth).
Karoline was Ferdinand's sister.

Thanks
Michael Stockhausen




From perry1121 at aol.com  Thu May 21 18:45:33 2009
From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 20:45:33 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zeretzke/Cerecki from Radom/Lublin/Chelm
In-Reply-To: <FFA834CCA3E14CF7A1F1CDC6AA81F97E@name54xk1bba18>
References: <FFA834CCA3E14CF7A1F1CDC6AA81F97E@name54xk1bba18>
Message-ID: <4A1603BD.8070309@aol.com>

Michael,

Bekiesza was part of the Lublin Evangelical parish at that time. SGGEE 
volunteers are currently indexing the digitized parish records from this 
church. We only have selected years completed. The records are in 
Polish, Russian or German, and almost all are hand-written, so it takes 
time. You will be able to order digital copies of records directly from 
the church in Lublin once they are indexed. If you look here: 
http://www.sggee.org/lublinrecords/LublinBirth.html
you can do a search on the family "Schiewe" and find listed the birth of 
Pauline to Daniel Schiewe and Karoline Cerecki (Zeretzki) in 1885. You 
can read about this indexing project on the website here: 
http://www.sggee.org/lublinsearchinstruct.html
More indexes will be uploaded as they are completed.

I am one of the volunteers and will be happy to answer any other 
questions you might have.
Regards,
Sigrid Pohl Perry

Michael Stockhausen wrote:
> On the SGGEE database I found an entry on Karoline ZERETZKE (ID   I138919). It says she was born in Bolstawar on April 8, 1858. 
> She was married to Daniel Schiewe and lived/died in Bekiesza, Kr Chelm, Lublin.
>
> I have a few questions:
> 1. What is the source for the exact birth date?
> 2. Where could Bolstawar be? (perhaps Boleslawow or something similar)?
> 3. Which parish was in charge of Bekeisza - Lublin or Chelm (1860s-1880s-1900s)?
>
>
> Besides:
> 4. Which Lutheran parish did Pajakow near Pulawy belong to - Radom???
>
> For a friend in the USA I am searching for the marriage Ferdinand Cerecki / Julianne Schroeder, probably in Radom about 1881/82.  (And then Ferdinand's birth).
> Karoline was Ferdinand's sister.
>
> Thanks
> Michael Stockhausen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   



From perry1121 at aol.com  Thu May 21 18:45:33 2009
From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 20:45:33 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zeretzke/Cerecki from Radom/Lublin/Chelm
In-Reply-To: <FFA834CCA3E14CF7A1F1CDC6AA81F97E@name54xk1bba18>
References: <FFA834CCA3E14CF7A1F1CDC6AA81F97E@name54xk1bba18>
Message-ID: <4A1603BD.8070309@aol.com>

Michael,

Bekiesza was part of the Lublin Evangelical parish at that time. SGGEE 
volunteers are currently indexing the digitized parish records from this 
church. We only have selected years completed. The records are in 
Polish, Russian or German, and almost all are hand-written, so it takes 
time. You will be able to order digital copies of records directly from 
the church in Lublin once they are indexed. If you look here: 
http://www.sggee.org/lublinrecords/LublinBirth.html
you can do a search on the family "Schiewe" and find listed the birth of 
Pauline to Daniel Schiewe and Karoline Cerecki (Zeretzki) in 1885. You 
can read about this indexing project on the website here: 
http://www.sggee.org/lublinsearchinstruct.html
More indexes will be uploaded as they are completed.

I am one of the volunteers and will be happy to answer any other 
questions you might have.
Regards,
Sigrid Pohl Perry

Michael Stockhausen wrote:
> On the SGGEE database I found an entry on Karoline ZERETZKE (ID   I138919). It says she was born in Bolstawar on April 8, 1858. 
> She was married to Daniel Schiewe and lived/died in Bekiesza, Kr Chelm, Lublin.
>
> I have a few questions:
> 1. What is the source for the exact birth date?
> 2. Where could Bolstawar be? (perhaps Boleslawow or something similar)?
> 3. Which parish was in charge of Bekeisza - Lublin or Chelm (1860s-1880s-1900s)?
>
>
> Besides:
> 4. Which Lutheran parish did Pajakow near Pulawy belong to - Radom???
>
> For a friend in the USA I am searching for the marriage Ferdinand Cerecki / Julianne Schroeder, probably in Radom about 1881/82.  (And then Ferdinand's birth).
> Karoline was Ferdinand's sister.
>
> Thanks
> Michael Stockhausen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>   



From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Fri May 22 06:06:47 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 06:06:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lublin database down momentarily
Message-ID: <139496.61856.qm@web55303.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

For those who may be using the Lublin database I want to let you know that it is down at the moment. In trying to add more data to the database we have run into some technical problems. We hope to have this corrected shortly.
Karl Krueger



      

From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Sat May 23 11:33:46 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:33:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lublin database down momentarily
Message-ID: <539064.27674.qm@web55303.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The Lublin database seems to be functioning properly again including 7 new disks of data. Please let me know if you notice any problems with it.
Karl

--- On Fri, 5/22/09, Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Karl Krueger <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lublin database down momentarily
To: "Mail  List" <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Cc: "sggee" <contact at sggee.org>
Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 9:06 AM

For those who may be using the Lublin database I want to let you know that it is down at the moment. In trying to add more data to the database we have run into some technical problems. We hope to have this corrected shortly.
Karl Krueger



      


      

From mschmie at prodigy.net  Mon May 25 12:49:39 2009
From: mschmie at prodigy.net (MSchmied)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 19:49:39 +0000
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] August and Julia Ott
Message-ID: <052520091949.29695.4A1AF6520009B0AB000073FF22230682229B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net>

First ?...How many will be attending the convention in Milwaukee in July...I'm planning to attend.

I am looking for info on the following family.....any ideas?

Baltimore Passenger Lists, 1820-1948 

Julia Ott     age 40 
Friedrich Ott age 11    (Middle inital H, possible B/D Aug 22, 2892)
Wilhelmina    age 9     (possible B/D  June 14, 1896)
Paulina       age 8     (possible B/D  Jan. 12, 1900)
Emalie        age 6     (Possibly used Mollie or Mildred as a first name)
Rosa          age 4 

ARRIVAL DATE:May 1906 
RACE:German 
PORT OF DEPARTURE:Bremen, Germany (Sailing from Bremen April 26th, 1906) 
SHIP NAME:Breslau 
PORT OF ARRIVAL:Baltimore, Maryland 
FRIEND'S NAME:August Ott (Husband) 
LAST RESIDENCE:Russia   (Rovno)

NOTE:August Ott came to the United States at least a year ahead of the family. I could not find him on a list. 

AUGUST OTT    b. 1868 
    FATHER:Ferdinand Ott 
    MOTHER: Julia Ott  b. March 25, 1868 
	FATHER:August Beckman 
	MOTHER:Paulina 


Julia (Beckman) Ott had a sister Martha/Marley (Beckman) Bair who, supposedly, moved to Necha/Necha North Dakota. 

I've been told the family came from Volenskigobarna (Volhynia Gubernia???), or Nevna, Russia

This is all the info I have on this family

Thanks for any help or info you can provide.




From mackzie at earthlink.net  Mon May 25 13:18:41 2009
From: mackzie at earthlink.net (Beth Burke)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:18:41 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] August and Julia Ott
In-Reply-To: <052520091949.29695.4A1AF6520009B0AB000073FF22230682229B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net>
References: <052520091949.29695.4A1AF6520009B0AB000073FF22230682229B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net>
Message-ID: <000301c9dd76$005e0190$011a04b0$@net>

I live in Wisconsin and although I have yet to register for the convention,
I have asked for this as my birthday gift.  Wow - three days away from home,
my wonderful husband, 13-year old son, a good dog and a sometimes-good dog!
What more could a wife and mom want during the middle of the summer than to
have a hotel room to herself, miles from home, with a group of genealogy
fanatics?  CAN'T WAIT!

Just a note of thanks to all who have been adding information to the Lublin
parish rolls.  I found loads of information about my grandfather - the one
person that had me up against brick walls for several years.  Found out that
his mother was previously married and had a daughter from that marriage.
His mother's sister, also married and had a son.  The daughter married the
son.  Confused....maybe it would be easier to understand if I said it was
like  my son marrying my sister's daughter.  Luckily, this was from my
grandfather's mother's first marriage, so it doesn't really affect my
gene-pool, so to speak.  It reminds me of a song my son used to live as a
child  -  "I'm My Own Grandpa"!  HA!

Once again, thanks to everyone who has helped make the Lublin records
possible!  They've provided me with a wealth of information!

Beth Burke
Verona, WI
Researching:  Friedrich, Lieske/Liske, Pinkowski, Glor, Dietz, Zellmer, and
a zillion others that I either know or have yet to add to the list



-----Original Message-----
From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org
[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of MSchmied
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 2:50 PM
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] August and Julia Ott

First ?...How many will be attending the convention in Milwaukee in
July...I'm planning to attend.

I am looking for info on the following family.....any ideas?

Baltimore Passenger Lists, 1820-1948 

Julia Ott     age 40 
Friedrich Ott age 11    (Middle inital H, possible B/D Aug 22, 2892)
Wilhelmina    age 9     (possible B/D  June 14, 1896)
Paulina       age 8     (possible B/D  Jan. 12, 1900)
Emalie        age 6     (Possibly used Mollie or Mildred as a first name)
Rosa          age 4 

ARRIVAL DATE:May 1906 
RACE:German 
PORT OF DEPARTURE:Bremen, Germany (Sailing from Bremen April 26th, 1906) 
SHIP NAME:Breslau 
PORT OF ARRIVAL:Baltimore, Maryland 
FRIEND'S NAME:August Ott (Husband) 
LAST RESIDENCE:Russia   (Rovno)

NOTE:August Ott came to the United States at least a year ahead of the
family. I could not find him on a list. 

AUGUST OTT    b. 1868 
    FATHER:Ferdinand Ott 
    MOTHER: Julia Ott  b. March 25, 1868 
	FATHER:August Beckman 
	MOTHER:Paulina 


Julia (Beckman) Ott had a sister Martha/Marley (Beckman) Bair who,
supposedly, moved to Necha/Necha North Dakota. 

I've been told the family came from Volenskigobarna (Volhynia Gubernia???),
or Nevna, Russia

This is all the info I have on this family

Thanks for any help or info you can provide.



_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv




From cmduff at redwing.net  Tue May 26 16:36:59 2009
From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 18:36:59 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] convention
Message-ID: <4A1C7D1B.2090305@redwing.net>

I have registered to attend the convention. I would be willing to share 
a room with a female non-smoker. Carol


From egrenke at shaw.ca  Wed May 27 18:01:13 2009
From: egrenke at shaw.ca (Elmer)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:01:13 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volynia
Message-ID: <374CEB9E20564ACF87C52381FF482B94@elmera555349b1>

Were ethnic Germans who lived in Volynia , allowed to own firearms . Also , were there many wild animals to hunt 

Elmer Grenke 

From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Thu May 28 05:09:53 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 06:09:53 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volynia
In-Reply-To: <374CEB9E20564ACF87C52381FF482B94@elmera555349b1>
References: <374CEB9E20564ACF87C52381FF482B94@elmera555349b1>
Message-ID: <4A1E7F11.8010000@shaw.ca>

Interesting question Elmer.  I cannot answer it directly.

However, one of the few family stories in my ancestry is that my 
grandfather served his time in the Russian Army as the equivalent of a 
forest / game warden in the service of the Czar.  He did so in 
Volhynia.  I'm not sure what that job entailed but I have also heard 
stories about poaching game in these forests so it may have been, at 
least in part, to protect against that. 

Unless you were into snaring, I'm not sure how you would poach animals 
without a gun so I suspect that at least some people owned them.  Not 
sure what specific animals were involved but at the very least, I would 
assume deer.

Jerry Frank
Calgary, AB



Elmer wrote:
> Were ethnic Germans who lived in Volynia , allowed to own firearms . Also , were there many wild animals to hunt 
>
> Elmer Grenke 
>
>   


From GHBoehm at ish.de  Thu May 28 05:54:01 2009
From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:54:01 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volynia
In-Reply-To: <4A1E7F11.8010000@shaw.ca>
References: <374CEB9E20564ACF87C52381FF482B94@elmera555349b1>
	<4A1E7F11.8010000@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <4A1E8969.7090601@ish.de>

Elmer wrote:
> Were ethnic Germans who lived in Volynia , allowed to own firearms . Also , were there many wild animals to hunt 
>
> Elmer Grenke

Hello Elmer,
Alfred KARASEK wrote an article in "Schaffen und Schauen, 
Mitteilungsblatt f?r Kunst und Bildungspflege in der Wojewodschaft 
Schlesien", volume 1931, No. VII 6/8, pages 69 to 74 entitled 
"Geschichten von der wilden Jagd in Wolhynien" (stories of poaching in 
Volhynia).

Nikolaus ARNDT wrote in his book "Die Shitomirer ARNDTS" about a 
relative who made a journey to Austria and smuggled for his son who 
liked to go hunting 5 pounds of gunpowder - sewed into his waistbelt.

G?nther


From my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com  Thu May 28 11:22:00 2009
From: my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com (Christoph)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:22:00 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
Message-ID: <316ef540905281122v36f8938em97295fe9a28c8b82@mail.gmail.com>

Hello to all

I try to get further information about my family members who were born in
Radom Poland.
I ve got several records from an archive in Radom. But the most import
records are still in the church.
I ve sent mails and letters to the church, also with the help of the church
of Lublin but I do not get any answer.

Has anyone every ordered copies from church records from Radom or has an
idea how to get in contact with the church.
Maybe someone knows a person in Radom whose is trusted to make some
researches.

Thks for your help

Christoph


From benovich at imt.net  Thu May 28 22:43:45 2009
From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:43:45 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volhynia
Message-ID: <001201c9e020$6eb43950$0500a8c0@richard01>

If you go to the GR-Heritage listserve archives at this link:
http://listserv.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=gr-heritage&D=0&I=-3

type in "hunting in Russia" in the search box.  You'll find a brief flurry 
of letters by me, Irene (at that time) Kopetzke, and Roland Wagner in 
September, 2000.  You might find others if you dig around a bit.  None of it 
provided definitive answers, but it does seem that firearms were held, and 
perhaps legally, in Volhynia and elsewhere.

Dick 
-------------- next part --------------

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From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Fri May 29 04:22:47 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:22:47 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
References: <316ef540905281122v36f8938em97295fe9a28c8b82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003501c9e04f$cddfe350$f800a8c0@end2000>

Hello Christoph,

you didn't mention any names or dates !
If you like some more information to your request: please contact by
(private) mail.

Hannes W.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Christoph" <my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:22 PM
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request


> Hello to all
>
> I try to get further information about my family members who were born in
> Radom Poland.
> I ve got several records from an archive in Radom. But the most import
> records are still in the church.
> I ve sent mails and letters to the church, also with the help of the
church
> of Lublin but I do not get any answer.
>
> Has anyone every ordered copies from church records from Radom or has an
> idea how to get in contact with the church.
> Maybe someone knows a person in Radom whose is trusted to make some
> researches.
>
> Thks for your help
>
> Christoph
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From walters.cathy at yahoo.com  Fri May 29 10:54:00 2009
From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com (Cathy Walters)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:54:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jesse-relitives
Message-ID: <477859.14346.qm@web57403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi listers,I'm putting this out there for hopes of conecting,nothing is verified due to no money.It may give ideas for other Jesse seekers,mainly used the Poznan Project & a couple bits and peices picked up on searching.
unknown birth place,parents and wife/s ;Christoph Jesse b.Mar.1788 died July 11 1872 Niewolno ,kreis Mogilno -Tremessen church death record-my greatgr..grandfather
#1.Christoph Jesse Jr.b.1817 m.Witkowo? 1848 Wilhelmine Kolander-the widow Jesse
?????????????? Pauline Jesse b.1850 m.1869 Tremessen to Michael Schroeder
???? (poss.1st & 2nd marriages-Schocken kreis Wagrowiec Christoph b..1812 m.1834?? Anna???? Rosina Probe,more likely-Christoph b.1817 m.1847 Louise Duesterhoeft)
????? SGGEE vol.3 #4,pg.10,Christoph Jess -school teacher Leonberg,Volhynia fall of 1848-1850 when went to Erdsmannweiler;unknown if Christoph Jr. m.1848,in area of Tremessen before 1869-Pauline marries,sponcers Gottlieb Rossin 1874,be 60yrs?old in 1877.Maybe one of the unknow childrens?? decendents-Schroeder &others clear this up?

#2.Anna Rosina Jesse b.1824 m.1843 Tremessen Gottlieb Schmidt f.Michael

#3.Caroline Jesse b.1835 m.July 3 1859 Tremessen Carl Rudolph Mittelstaedt b.1833 Gambitz kreis Strelno f.Carl Wilhelm 

#4.Wilhelmine Jesse b.1839 m.Feb.6 1863 Tremessen Friedrich Rossin f.Michael & Rosalie

#5.Gustav Rudolph Jesse b.1841 m.1866 Welnau kreis Gnesen Wilhelmine Charlotte Albrecht f.Mattias
Gottlieb Rossin?said, one of his uncles went missing-most likely ment Gustav who with family immigrated to Texas 1884.
Gottlieb also said that he rather had son's as pastor's then teachers because they hold more respect.Best friend of my uncle who was with him at collage said my uncle was afraid to go home with laundry because he wanted to be a teacher-he was a pastor for short time and was a farmer.

possible sib's of Christoph Sr.;Michael & George of Witkowo,Johann & Gottlieb of Welnau

Posen settlers for colnization(instead of hanging on my wall -its lost in my mess)
Andreas Jesse b.Welnau ,baker moved to Budsin 1782(kreis Kolmar)many Jesse's in that region.-that may mean that most of the Jesse's all relate.

Kreis Wagrowiec is sitting next to kreis Kolmar,kreis Oborniki & kreis Gnesen
Revier & Schocken in Wagrowiec;Christoph Jesse b.1801 f. Michael Jess,he may be cousin but not my direct,he may have married 4x's;Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina Jess f.Andreas Gess,Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina Radke -widow of a Jesse,Christoph Jesse b.1807 m.1836 Anna Julianne Kruger f.Johann,Christoph Jesse b.1804 m.1850 Anna Susanne Jahnke -the widow Sager
Cathy in Elgin,MN hopeful that Poznan Project grows and more info to come


? ALWAYS A ROSE 


      

From gary at warnerengineering.com  Fri May 29 12:38:31 2009
From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:38:31 -0700
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jesse-relitives
In-Reply-To: <477859.14346.qm@web57403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <477859.14346.qm@web57403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A2039B7.5040801@warnerengineering.com>

Cathy,

I cannot say that we can help you find all of your missing family, but I 
know that we have the family of Carl Rudolf Mittelstaedt and Caroline 
Jesse, as well as more data on Carl's ancestors.   I cannot seem to find 
other Jesse family in a quick search, but you should consider joining 
SGGEE and submitting your pedigree data to see if we can then sent you 
all of the records that we can connect to your data.

Be aware that the name Jesse has been known to show up as Jeske, Gesse, 
Geske, and other forms.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Cathy Walters wrote:
> Hi listers,I'm putting this out there for hopes of conecting,nothing is verified due to no money.It may give ideas for other Jesse seekers,mainly used the Poznan Project & a couple bits and peices picked up on searching.
> unknown birth place,parents and wife/s ;Christoph Jesse b.Mar.1788 died July 11 1872 Niewolno ,kreis Mogilno -Tremessen church death record-my greatgr..grandfather
> #1.Christoph Jesse Jr.b.1817 m.Witkowo  1848 Wilhelmine Kolander-the widow Jesse
>                Pauline Jesse b.1850 m.1869 Tremessen to Michael Schroeder
>      (poss.1st & 2nd marriages-Schocken kreis Wagrowiec Christoph b..1812 m.1834   Anna     Rosina Probe,more likely-Christoph b.1817 m.1847 Louise Duesterhoeft)
>       SGGEE vol.3 #4,pg.10,Christoph Jess -school teacher Leonberg,Volhynia fall of 1848-1850 when went to Erdsmannweiler;unknown if Christoph Jr. m.1848,in area of Tremessen before 1869-Pauline marries,sponcers Gottlieb Rossin 1874,be 60yrs old in 1877.Maybe one of the unknow childrens   decendents-Schroeder &others clear this up?
>
> #2.Anna Rosina Jesse b.1824 m.1843 Tremessen Gottlieb Schmidt f.Michael
>
> #3.Caroline Jesse b.1835 m.July 3 1859 Tremessen Carl Rudolph Mittelstaedt b.1833 Gambitz kreis Strelno f.Carl Wilhelm 
>
> #4.Wilhelmine Jesse b.1839 m.Feb.6 1863 Tremessen Friedrich Rossin f.Michael & Rosalie
>
> #5.Gustav Rudolph Jesse b.1841 m.1866 Welnau kreis Gnesen Wilhelmine Charlotte Albrecht f.Mattias
> Gottlieb Rossin said, one of his uncles went missing-most likely ment Gustav who with family immigrated to Texas 1884.
> Gottlieb also said that he rather had son's as pastor's then teachers because they hold more respect.Best friend of my uncle who was with him at collage said my uncle was afraid to go home with laundry because he wanted to be a teacher-he was a pastor for short time and was a farmer.
>
> possible sib's of Christoph Sr.;Michael & George of Witkowo,Johann & Gottlieb of Welnau
>
> Posen settlers for colnization(instead of hanging on my wall -its lost in my mess)
> Andreas Jesse b.Welnau ,baker moved to Budsin 1782(kreis Kolmar)many Jesse's in that region.-that may mean that most of the Jesse's all relate.
>
> Kreis Wagrowiec is sitting next to kreis Kolmar,kreis Oborniki & kreis Gnesen
> Revier & Schocken in Wagrowiec;Christoph Jesse b.1801 f. Michael Jess,he may be cousin but not my direct,he may have married 4x's;Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina Jess f.Andreas Gess,Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina Radke -widow of a Jesse,Christoph Jesse b.1807 m.1836 Anna Julianne Kruger f.Johann,Christoph Jesse b.1804 m.1850 Anna Susanne Jahnke -the widow Sager
> Cathy in Elgin,MN hopeful that Poznan Project grows and more info to come
>
>
>   ALWAYS A ROSE 
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From hakimk at charter.net  Fri May 29 12:15:12 2009
From: hakimk at charter.net (Harold kwast)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:15:12 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Radom church document request
Message-ID: <D093FBA46EF84618910028F68A38E10E@Harold>

Christoph,

This is probably ancient history, but in 2003 I obtained information from the Radom church archives
by writing to Revd. Dariusz Chwastik PhD at the following address:
Parafia Ewangelicko-Augsburska w Radomin
Ul. Reja 6
26-600
Woj Wazowieckie
Poland

I also had an e-mail reply from him at dariuszchwastek at wp.pl.

The correspondence was in Polish.

Harold Kwast

From dabookk54 at yahoo.com  Fri May 29 18:24:59 2009
From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 18:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
Message-ID: <50748.56887.qm@web55307.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

That was 2003. Since then Dariusz Chwastek has moved to pastor at Lublin where he has been insturmental in collaborating with us on the Lublin project. No doubt things were probably better as far as getting records from Radom while he was there. Next time I talk with I can ask him about Radom and if he can get the office/pastor there to be more open about their archives. If they aren't approachable, the church can't get money through genealogists.
Karl

--- On Fri, 5/29/09, Harold kwast <hakimk at charter.net> wrote:

From: Harold kwast <hakimk at charter.net>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Radom church document request
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 3:15 PM

Christoph,

This is probably ancient history, but in 2003 I obtained information from the Radom church archives
by writing to Revd. Dariusz Chwastik PhD at the following address:
Parafia Ewangelicko-Augsburska w Radomin
Ul. Reja 6
26-600
Woj Wazowieckie
Poland

I also had an e-mail reply from him at dariuszchwastek at wp.pl.

The correspondence was in Polish.

Harold Kwast

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



      

From albertmuth at aol.com  Fri May 29 19:17:51 2009
From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:17:51 -0400
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jesse-relitives
In-Reply-To: <4A2039B7.5040801@warnerengineering.com>
References: <477859.14346.qm@web57403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<4A2039B7.5040801@warnerengineering.com>
Message-ID: <8CBAEE3F7A28021-ABC-1016@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com>

Gary makes a very good point about the Jesse and Jeske surname (with
other variants). ?In looking at church records, plus any online sources

that use them, people looking for these surnames really do need to

consider checking the other variants. ?This holds true particularly

in the first few decades of the 1800's.




I do not regard these as interchangeable surnames, but in some

parishes, it certainly seems as if they are. ?It often takes me

accumulating quite a few records on a family before I can

decide which variant to use.




Al Muth


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Warner <gary at warnerengineering.com>
To: Cathy Walters <walters.cathy at yahoo.com>
Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jesse-relitives








Cathy,

I cannot say that we can help you find all of your missing family, but I 
know that we have the family of Carl Rudolf Mittelstaedt and Caroline 
Jesse, as well as more data on Carl's ancestors.   I cannot seem to find 
other Jesse family in a quick search, but you should consider joining 
SGGEE and submitting your pedigree data to see if we can then sent you 
all of the records that we can connect to your data.

Be aware that the name Jesse has been known to show up as Jeske, Gesse, 
Geske, and other forms.

Gary Warner
SGGEE

Cathy Walters wrote:
> Hi listers,I'm putting this out there for hopes of conecting,nothing is 
verified due to no money.It may give ideas=2
0for other Jesse seekers,mainly used 
the Poznan Project & a couple bits and peices picked up on searching.
> unknown birth place,parents and wife/s ;Christoph Jesse b.Mar.1788 died July 
11 1872 Niewolno ,kreis Mogilno -Tremessen church death record-my 
greatgr..grandfather
> #1.Christoph Jesse Jr.b.1817 m.Witkowo  1848 Wilhelmine Kolander-the widow 
Jesse
>                Pauline Jesse b.1850 m.1869 Tremessen to Michael Schroeder
>      (poss.1st & 2nd marriages-Schocken kreis Wagrowiec Christoph b..1812 
m.1834   Anna     Rosina Probe,more likely-Christoph b.1817 m.1847 Louise 
Duesterhoeft)
>       SGGEE vol.3 #4,pg.10,Christoph Jess -school teacher Leonberg,Volhynia 
fall of 1848-1850 when went to Erdsmannweiler;unknown if Christoph Jr. m.1848,in 
area of Tremessen before 1869-Pauline marries,sponcers Gottlieb Rossin 1874,be 
60yrs old in 1877.Maybe one of the unknow childrens   decendents-Schroeder 
&others clear this up?
>
> #2.Anna Rosina Jesse b.1824 m.1843 Tremessen Gottlieb Schmidt f.Michael
>
> #3.Caroline Jesse b.1835 m.July 3 1859 Tremessen Carl Rudolph Mittelstaedt 
b.1833 Gambitz kreis Strelno f.Carl Wilhelm 
>
> #4.Wilhelmine Jesse b.1839 m.Feb.6 1863 Tremessen Friedrich Rossin f.Michael & 
Rosalie
>
> #5.Gustav Rudolph Jesse b.1841 m.1866 Welnau kreis Gnesen Wilhelmine Charlotte 
Albrecht f.Mattias
> Gottlieb Rossin said, one of his uncles went missing-most likely ment Gustav 
who with family immigrated to Texas 1884.
> Gottlieb also said that he rather had son's as pastor's then teachers b
ecause 
they hold more respect.Best friend of my uncle who was with him at collage said 
my uncle was afraid to go home with laundry because he wanted to be a teacher-he 
was a pastor for short time and was a farmer.
>
> possible sib's of Christoph Sr.;Michael & George of Witkowo,Johann & Gottlieb 
of Welnau
>
> Posen settlers for colnization(instead of hanging on my wall -its lost in my 
mess)
> Andreas Jesse b.Welnau ,baker moved to Budsin 1782(kreis Kolmar)many Jesse's 
in that region.-that may mean that most of the Jesse's all relate.
>
> Kreis Wagrowiec is sitting next to kreis Kolmar,kreis Oborniki & kreis Gnesen
> Revier & Schocken in Wagrowiec;Christoph Jesse b.1801 f. Michael Jess,he may 
be cousin but not my direct,he may have married 4x's;Christoph Jesse b.1801 
m.1833 Anna Rosina Jess f.Andreas Gess,Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina 
Radke -widow of a Jesse,Christoph Jesse b.1807 m.1836 Anna Julianne Kruger 
f.Johann,Christoph Jesse b.1804 m.1850 Anna Susanne Jahnke -the widow Sager
> Cathy in Elgin,MN hopeful that Poznan Project grows and more info to come
>
>
>   ALWAYS A ROSE 
>
>
>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
Mailing list info 
at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



 






From tomjess64 at comcast.net  Fri May 29 19:46:33 2009
From: tomjess64 at comcast.net (tomjess64@comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 02:46:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jesse-relitives
In-Reply-To: <477859.14346.qm@web57403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1637370351.12643101243651593390.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



I have documentation that Gottlieb Jesse married Eva Decker. With this documentation,?I was able to go on sggee and find Gottliebs father, Andreas Jesse and mother Rosina Grams. They had 7 children, Julianna, Wilhelm, Wilhelmine, ludwig, Samuel, August, and Ernestine. SGGEE only had partial information, the rest I obtained thru a passed down family tree. The relative who made the tree passed on in 1964. His son told me he wrote letters everywhere to get the information. I was able to verify at least?half of it so?I believe its good information.? I have a martin Jesse married to Wilhelmine Radke. Martin was born in Borecznia Wielka, Kolo, Poznan, Poland . Martin was born in 1833. 

surnames married to Jesses 

Radke 

shachtschneider 

kruger 

schwanke 

etc.. 



August Jesse(b 1849)?moved to the US, pennsylvania. 

wilhelm jesse, b 1855 was my ggrandfather 

albert jess b 1899 was my grandfather. 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cathy Walters" <walters.cathy at yahoo.com> 
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org 
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 1:54:00 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jesse-relitives 

Hi listers,I'm putting this out there for hopes of conecting,nothing is verified due to no money.It may give ideas for other Jesse seekers,mainly used the Poznan Project & a couple bits and peices picked up on searching. 
unknown birth place,parents and wife/s ;Christoph Jesse b.Mar.1788 died July 11 1872 Niewolno ,kreis Mogilno -Tremessen church death record-my greatgr..grandfather 
#1.Christoph Jesse Jr.b.1817 m.Witkowo? 1848 Wilhelmine Kolander-the widow Jesse 
?????????????? Pauline Jesse b.1850 m.1869 Tremessen to Michael Schroeder 
???? (poss.1st & 2nd marriages-Schocken kreis Wagrowiec Christoph b..1812 m.1834?? Anna???? Rosina Probe,more likely-Christoph b.1817 m.1847 Louise Duesterhoeft) 
????? SGGEE vol.3 #4,pg.10,Christoph Jess -school teacher Leonberg,Volhynia fall of 1848-1850 when went to Erdsmannweiler;unknown if Christoph Jr. m.1848,in area of Tremessen before 1869-Pauline marries,sponcers Gottlieb Rossin 1874,be 60yrs?old in 1877.Maybe one of the unknow childrens?? decendents-Schroeder &others clear this up? 

#2.Anna Rosina Jesse b.1824 m.1843 Tremessen Gottlieb Schmidt f.Michael 

#3.Caroline Jesse b.1835 m.July 3 1859 Tremessen Carl Rudolph Mittelstaedt b.1833 Gambitz kreis Strelno f.Carl Wilhelm 

#4.Wilhelmine Jesse b.1839 m.Feb.6 1863 Tremessen Friedrich Rossin f.Michael & Rosalie 

#5.Gustav Rudolph Jesse b.1841 m.1866 Welnau kreis Gnesen Wilhelmine Charlotte Albrecht f.Mattias 
Gottlieb Rossin?said, one of his uncles went missing-most likely ment Gustav who with family immigrated to Texas 1884. 
Gottlieb also said that he rather had son's as pastor's then teachers because they hold more respect.Best friend of my uncle who was with him at collage said my uncle was afraid to go home with laundry because he wanted to be a teacher-he was a pastor for short time and was a farmer. 

possible sib's of Christoph Sr.;Michael & George of Witkowo,Johann & Gottlieb of Welnau 

Posen settlers for colnization(instead of hanging on my wall -its lost in my mess) 
Andreas Jesse b.Welnau ,baker moved to Budsin 1782(kreis Kolmar)many Jesse's in that region.-that may mean that most of the Jesse's all relate. 

Kreis Wagrowiec is sitting next to kreis Kolmar,kreis Oborniki & kreis Gnesen 
Revier & Schocken in Wagrowiec;Christoph Jesse b.1801 f. Michael Jess,he may be cousin but not my direct,he may have married 4x's;Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina Jess f.Andreas Gess,Christoph Jesse b.1801 m.1833 Anna Rosina Radke -widow of a Jesse,Christoph Jesse b.1807 m.1836 Anna Julianne Kruger f.Johann,Christoph Jesse b.1804 m.1850 Anna Susanne Jahnke -the widow Sager 
Cathy in Elgin,MN hopeful that Poznan Project grows and more info to come 


? ALWAYS A ROSE 


?? ? ? 

_______________________________________________ 
Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by 
Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org 
Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv 


From Krampetz at aol.com  Fri May 29 23:02:14 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 02:02:14 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volhynia
Message-ID: <ce9.5650a9a3.375225e6@aol.com>

I checked out that web site and there are two 'Germans from Russia'
email lists there, and both were quite active years ago with all  their
archived data back to the 90's.  Plenty of data to  search. 
   _Http://listserv.nodak.edu_ (http://listserv.nodak.edu)   for  
instructions on how to sign up..
   _http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html_ 
(http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html)    for the various lists.
  
Bob
 (searching for Krampitz,  Wollenberg, Malon, ....)
 
 
In a message dated 5/28/2009 10:51:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
benovich at imt.net writes:

If you  go to the GR-Heritage listserve archives at this  link:
http://listserv.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=gr-heritage&D=0&I=-3


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322950x1201367186/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=
MaystepsfooterNO62)


From Krampetz at aol.com  Fri May 29 23:02:14 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 02:02:14 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volhynia
Message-ID: <ce9.5650a9a3.375225e6@aol.com>

I checked out that web site and there are two 'Germans from Russia'
email lists there, and both were quite active years ago with all  their
archived data back to the 90's.  Plenty of data to  search. 
   _Http://listserv.nodak.edu_ (http://listserv.nodak.edu)   for  
instructions on how to sign up..
   _http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html_ 
(http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html)    for the various lists.
  
Bob
 (searching for Krampitz,  Wollenberg, Malon, ....)
 
 
In a message dated 5/28/2009 10:51:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
benovich at imt.net writes:

If you  go to the GR-Heritage listserve archives at this  link:
http://listserv.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=gr-heritage&D=0&I=-3


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322950x1201367186/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=
MaystepsfooterNO62)


From Krampetz at aol.com  Fri May 29 23:02:14 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 02:02:14 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] firearms in Volhynia
Message-ID: <ce9.5650a9a3.375225e6@aol.com>

I checked out that web site and there are two 'Germans from Russia'
email lists there, and both were quite active years ago with all  their
archived data back to the 90's.  Plenty of data to  search. 
   _Http://listserv.nodak.edu_ (http://listserv.nodak.edu)   for  
instructions on how to sign up..
   _http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html_ 
(http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html)    for the various lists.
  
Bob
 (searching for Krampitz,  Wollenberg, Malon, ....)
 
 
In a message dated 5/28/2009 10:51:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
benovich at imt.net writes:

If you  go to the GR-Heritage listserve archives at this  link:
http://listserv.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=gr-heritage&D=0&I=-3


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322950x1201367186/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=
MaystepsfooterNO62)


From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Sat May 30 01:43:42 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:43:42 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
References: <50748.56887.qm@web55307.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <026001c9e102$db516aa0$f800a8c0@end2000>

Hello Karl,

present pastor of  evang-augsburg. church of Radom is ks. Wojciech
Rudkowski.

Ks. Wojciech Rudkowski
Parafia Ewangelicko - Augsburska w Radomiu
ul. Reja 6
PL 26-600 Radom
e-mail: ks.rudkowski at poczta.fm

He has to serve other churches in the surroundings, too. That may be one
reason for long lasting answers !


Hannes W.
Germany

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Krueger" <dabookk54 at yahoo.com>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>; "Harold kwast"
<hakimk at charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request


> That was 2003. Since then Dariusz Chwastek has moved to pastor at Lublin
where he has been insturmental in collaborating with us on the Lublin
project. No doubt things were probably better as far as getting records from
Radom while he was there. Next time I talk with I can ask him about Radom
and if he can get the office/pastor there to be more open about their
archives. If they aren't approachable, the church can't get money through
genealogists.
> Karl
>
> --- On Fri, 5/29/09, Harold kwast <hakimk at charter.net> wrote:
>
> From: Harold kwast <hakimk at charter.net>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia]  Radom church document request
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 3:15 PM
>
> Christoph,
>
> This is probably ancient history, but in 2003 I obtained information from
the Radom church archives
> by writing to Revd. Dariusz Chwastik PhD at the following address:
> Parafia Ewangelicko-Augsburska w Radomin
> Ul. Reja 6
> 26-600
> Woj Wazowieckie
> Poland
>
> I also had an e-mail reply from him at dariuszchwastek at wp.pl.
>
> The correspondence was in Polish.
>
> Harold Kwast
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca  Sat May 30 06:43:05 2009
From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 07:43:05 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Other mailing lists for Germans from Russia
In-Reply-To: <ce9.5650a9a3.375225e6@aol.com>
References: <ce9.5650a9a3.375225e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4A2137E9.9090409@shaw.ca>

Just to fill in some additional info to Bob's posting -

Prior to October of 2001 when our mailing list was established, most 
Volhynian discussions took place on the "nodak" lists.  I don't recall 
if much Russian Poland discussion took place there.  At that time we had 
the cooperation and blessing of Michael Miller, the nodak lists owner, 
in setting up our own mailing list.  Since that time, the nodak list 
activity has dropped off dramatically and Volhynia info there is 
virtually nil.  The nodak archives before that time are certainly worth 
browsing through.  Some additional info on English language GR lists:




GR-GENEALOGY List (nodak)- 553 subscribers, 9 postings in the month of 
May, 7 of them announcements by Michael Miller, the list owner.

GR-HERITAGE List (nodak) - 360 subscribers, 27 postings in month of May, 
14 of them announcements by Michael Miller, the list owner

The above lists focus on the Black Sea and Bessarabia regions but will 
accept questions regarding all aspects and regions of Germans in 
Russia.  The subscriber count may not be exactly current. 

Rootsweb GR-VOLGA List - with focus on the Volga River region, does not 
report the number of subscribers, 154 postings in the month of May.

SGGEE MailMan - with focus on Volhynia and Russian Poland, 654 
subscribers as of today, 192 postings in the month of May (not sure how 
many are announcements but they are few).


I'm not sure what makes our list so successful but I do thank all of you 
for the kind way in which you respond to messages and for your 
willingness to participate with any help you think you can offer.  In 
our almost 8 years of operation, I have only blocked one person from 
posting because of inappropriate content (that was only related to the 
signature line he chose to use, not to genealogy content).  It seems 
that most of you read our guidelines and abide by them in using this 
list.  Thank you!

Jerry Frank
Mailing List Administrator
Calgary, AB



Krampetz at aol.com wrote:
> I checked out that web site and there are two 'Germans from Russia'
> email lists there, and both were quite active years ago with all  their
> archived data back to the 90's.  Plenty of data to  search. 
>    _Http://listserv.nodak.edu_ (http://listserv.nodak.edu)   for  
> instructions on how to sign up..
>    _http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html_ 
> (http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/index.html)    for the various lists.
>   
> Bob
>  (searching for Krampitz,  Wollenberg, Malon, ....)
>  
>  
> In a message dated 5/28/2009 10:51:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
> benovich at imt.net writes:
>
> If you  go to the GR-Heritage listserve archives at this  link:
> http://listserv.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=gr-heritage&D=0&I=-3
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
> steps! 
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322950x1201367186/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=
> MaystepsfooterNO62)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv
>
>   


From benovich at imt.net  Sat May 30 11:08:22 2009
From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:08:22 -0600
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: Firearms in Volhynia.
Message-ID: <012201c9e151$a9d774c0$0500a8c0@richard01>

I have just received the following message from Will Genz regarding guns in Volhynia.  It looks like pretty good evidence for gun-owning.

Dick B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Will Genz 
To: benovich at imt.net 
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:27 AM
Subject: Firearms in Volhynia.


According to my Father's journal which is based on a diary passed on and updated in the family (in secret during the Stalinist years) since 1853 in Volhynia, Germans were allowed to own and use firearms for hunting up until WW I. The journal describes attacks by packs of wolves and the use of "Flinte" type of rifles to fend off the wolves.  It also describes the bounty collected from Czarist administrators for Wolfe pelts. From my knowledge of the German language as used in eastern Volhynia, a "Flinte" can be any type of rifle from a flintlock type to a more modern hunting rifle. You may broadcast this posting to all others that may be interested.  Will Grenz


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Sat May 30 18:52:45 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:52:45 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1243537203.23771.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
References: <mailman.1.1243537203.23771.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
Message-ID: <5DA1A74A4D55424296021CA9F6B2268F@Desktop>

 We discovered in preparing for our trip to Poland last year that the
churches in the Rypin and Sierpc areas, and we assume throughout Poland,
give a copy of their church books to the town office where they are retained
until they are 100 years old.  At that time they are passed to the Polish
Archives.  They (Rypin town offices) were able to tell me the record numbers
of the entries I was looking for but required me to prove that I was
related.  They said that I could order the documents through the Polish
embassy but proof of descent was still required and the cost was quite high
(about $45 CDN).  In Sierpc they were more willing to provide information
without proof of relationship but would not give a formal document without
proof.  Cost in Poland was 21 Zl or about $10 CDN last year and less today.

Earl

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:22:00 +0200
From: Christoph <my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com>
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Message-ID:
	<316ef540905281122v36f8938em97295fe9a28c8b82 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello to all

I try to get further information about my family members who were born in
Radom Poland.
I ve got several records from an archive in Radom. But the most import
records are still in the church.
I ve sent mails and letters to the church, also with the help of the church
of Lublin but I do not get any answer.

Has anyone every ordered copies from church records from Radom or has an
idea how to get in contact with the church.
Maybe someone knows a person in Radom whose is trusted to make some
researches.

Thks for your help

Christoph


------------------------------



From hgillespie at rogers.com  Sun May 31 13:51:04 2009
From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 13:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Chelm Poland
Message-ID: <517329.27993.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Found this website on Chelm Poland - unfortunately only in Polish - http://gotowka.chelm.pl  that does have a history of the area.

I suspect that my KUKASCH family may have originated or at least lived there at one time.  In the History section there is a list of the Old or original Residents - all are German and some are familiar from other Volhynian research I have done.  So, if you have Chelm area ancestors, you may find some names among them.  A "translation" by Google is sketchy.  Unfortunately there is no info on what happened to these residents after the War. Certainly it mentions that the German colonists were displaced during the WWII - to German territory - presumably after 1939-1940 and it appears were replaced by Ukrainians.

If someone can get a better idea of the Polish text than the Google translation, it would be much appreciated.

Helen Gillespie (nee Kukasch)

Searching: Kukasch, Koenig, Pufahl, Meister, Baier, Bethke, Kelm 
Places:  Konstantynow, Friedrichsdorf/Solomka, Borowka, Berestovets,Pinkov/Pempkov all in Wolhynia





From Hannes.Werner at online.de  Sun May 31 14:09:02 2009
From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:09:02 +0200
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
References: <mailman.1.1243537203.23771.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<5DA1A74A4D55424296021CA9F6B2268F@Desktop>
Message-ID: <001b01c9e234$076a17e0$f800a8c0@end2000>

Hello Earl,

seems there is some special regulation for Radom area. Any time when I asked
for e. g. a birth-record at states-archive in Radom I was advised to contact
the evang.-augsb. church.
Even SEZAM shows that the states-archive only keeps the "alegata".

Requiring documents from town office via polish embassy is really very
expensive !!! The reason for high costs is: documents are certified !

Hannes W.
Germany

----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl.Schultz" <Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net>
To: <ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request


> We discovered in preparing for our trip to Poland last year that the
> churches in the Rypin and Sierpc areas, and we assume throughout Poland,
> give a copy of their church books to the town office where they are
retained
> until they are 100 years old.  At that time they are passed to the Polish
> Archives.  They (Rypin town offices) were able to tell me the record
numbers
> of the entries I was looking for but required me to prove that I was
> related.  They said that I could order the documents through the Polish
> embassy but proof of descent was still required and the cost was quite
high
> (about $45 CDN).  In Sierpc they were more willing to provide information
> without proof of relationship but would not give a formal document without
> proof.  Cost in Poland was 21 Zl or about $10 CDN last year and less
today.
>
> Earl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:22:00 +0200
> From: Christoph <my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com>
> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
> Message-ID:
> <316ef540905281122v36f8938em97295fe9a28c8b82 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello to all
>
> I try to get further information about my family members who were born in
> Radom Poland.
> I ve got several records from an archive in Radom. But the most import
> records are still in the church.
> I ve sent mails and letters to the church, also with the help of the
church
> of Lublin but I do not get any answer.
>
> Has anyone every ordered copies from church records from Radom or has an
> idea how to get in contact with the church.
> Maybe someone knows a person in Radom whose is trusted to make some
> researches.
>
> Thks for your help
>
> Christoph
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by
> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org
> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv



From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net  Sun May 31 15:31:46 2009
From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 17:31:46 -0500
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
In-Reply-To: <001b01c9e234$076a17e0$f800a8c0@end2000>
References: <mailman.1.1243537203.23771.ger-poland-volhynia@eclipse.sggee.org>
	<5DA1A74A4D55424296021CA9F6B2268F@Desktop>
	<001b01c9e234$076a17e0$f800a8c0@end2000>
Message-ID: <06FBC56E557E4DF0813E094759F85EA3@Desktop>

There are probably 2 copies of the records and one is with the town.  It can
be more difficult getting the record from the town because of privacy laws
and, as you say, they certify their documents.  In Sierpc they were willing
to give us uncertified documents, i.e. they'd write the info down on a piece
of paper because you cannot use that as a legal document to steal someone's
identity.  In Rypin they would only give us the record #.  My church did not
retain any records more than a few years and I don't know if a copy went to
the church archives, I would think so.

I found out about the town records from the Jewish site
http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/ .  You can check there to see what records
are in the town offices.

Once they are 100 years old then you have to go to the archives. 

Earl

-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Werner [mailto:Hannes.Werner at online.de] 
Sent: May 31, 2009 4:09 PM
To: Earl.Schultz; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org
Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request


Hello Earl,

seems there is some special regulation for Radom area. Any time when I asked
for e. g. a birth-record at states-archive in Radom I was advised to contact
the evang.-augsb. church.
Even SEZAM shows that the states-archive only keeps the "alegata".

Requiring documents from town office via polish embassy is really very
expensive !!! The reason for high costs is: documents are certified !

Hannes W.
Germany




From Krampetz at aol.com  Sun May 31 21:23:45 2009
From: Krampetz at aol.com (Krampetz@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:23:45 EDT
Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Radom church document request
Message-ID: <c38.55997f51.3754b1d1@aol.com>

Earl,  is that a Catholic church?   As the Lutheran churches  (likely
      long gone) have their old books at the EZA  in Berlin  
(_http://ezab.de_ (http://ezab.de) ) 
 
      Bob
 
 
In a message dated 5/30/2009 8:09:43 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net writes:

We  discovered in preparing for our trip to Poland last year that the
churches  in the Rypin and Sierpc areas, and we assume throughout Poland,
give a copy  of their church books to the town office where they are 
retained
until they  are 100 years old.  At that time they are passed to the  Polish
Archives.  They (Rypin town offices) were able to tell me the  record 
numbers
of the entries I was looking for but required me to prove  that I was
related.  They said that I could order the documents  through the Polish
embassy but proof of descent was still required and the  cost was quite high
(about $45 CDN).  In Sierpc they were more willing  to provide information
without proof of relationship but would not give a  formal document without
proof.  Cost in Poland was 21 Zl or about $10  CDN last year and less  
today.

Earl

**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
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