From aprudue1 at cogeco.ca Thu Jan 1 14:14:24 2009 From: aprudue1 at cogeco.ca (Perdue) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 17:14:24 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] BECHLER FLOETKE Families - Prussian Holland - Mohrungen Area of East Prussia Message-ID: <619459CE18414AD7A96B2EAABBF6FF3C@owner3e0c5b39c> Researching Bechler and Floetke surnames from East Prussia - specifically in the area of Lothen (Latkowo Poland today) in the civil district of Miswalde. Trying to locate records from the 1829 to 1874 time frame. These families were Evangelical Lutheran.Few church records available through LDS. Any suggestions about tracking down birth and marriage records from this area? Thanks! From cmduff at redwing.net Thu Jan 1 14:30:08 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:30:08 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 3331a5d1921d2f2be9d9b56e04d59b58 Some of my family who went to Canada seem to have had their ship passage paid for or partly paid for. This might have been true for Brazil also. It seems that companies recruited settlers to come. Carol > From colnels at telus.net Thu Jan 1 14:58:22 2009 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 15:58:22 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil In-Reply-To: <20090101223040.MRET1538.priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net@priv-edtnaa14.telusplanet.net> References: <20090101223040.MRET1538.priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net@priv-edtnaa14.telusplanet.net> Message-ID: <000801c96c64$728c5a60$57a50f20$@net> Would that be companies or Churches? Churches played an active role in assisting immigrants. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Carol Duff Sent: January-01-09 3:30 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil Some of my family who went to Canada seem to have had their ship passage paid for or partly paid for. This might have been true for Brazil also. It seems that companies recruited settlers to come. Carol > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 09/12/2008 9:59 AM From wjmilner at shaw.ca Fri Jan 2 08:20:16 2009 From: wjmilner at shaw.ca (Jack Milner) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 09:20:16 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil In-Reply-To: <000801c96c64$728c5a60$57a50f20$@net> References: <20090101223040.MRET1538.priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net@priv-edtnaa14.telusplanet.net> <000801c96c64$728c5a60$57a50f20$@net> Message-ID: <495E3EC0.9040105@shaw.ca> One Company that recruited my great grandfather, Gottlieb Altwasser from Volhynia to Canada in 1905 was the North Atlantic Trading Company. Passengers who qualified the company for this bonus were indicated by a stamp on the ships passenger list "N.A.T.C. Bonus Allowed". Following is a brief history of this controversial company. Also visit: http://members.shaw.ca/d_y_g/ssdominion.htm Canada and the NATC Bonus Sir Wilfrid Laurier's Liberal government elected in 1896, immediately launched an aggressive campaign to encourage the settlement of Western Canada. Clifford Sifton, the Minister of the Interior in Laurier's government, offered land to people who chose to make the Prairies their home. To attract the farm labor needed to push back the Western frontier, he staged high-profile recruitment campaigns that employed methods that were not always new, but pursued more vigorously than had been done previously in advertising the West's attractions. A torrent of pamphlets in several languages flooded Great Britain, Europe, and the United States. Canadian exhibits were mounted at fairs, exhibitions, and public displays, while editorial articles, commissioned by his department, were inserted in foreign newspapers. Foreign journalists were wined and dined on guided tours across the West, and prosperous homesteaders were encouraged to revisit their homelands and those friends and relatives they had left behind, since it was Sifton's belief that the most effective advertising was done by individual contact. One such campaign involved arrangements with an Amsterdam-based organization of booking agents and steamship company officials. In 1899, Clifford Sifton sanctioned a controversial contract with the NATC whereby the Company acquired a monopoly on all Canadian immigration promotional work throughout continental Europe and Scandinavia. Under the terms of the contract, the Company agreed to direct farmers to Canada, earning a bonus from the Immigration Department for each settler. The organization's operations were kept secret, allegedly because most European countries at the time had restrictive emigration laws and the agents involved were risking prosecution. When details of the government's secret agreement with the North Atlantic Trading Company were revealed in Parliament in July 1905, the opposition Conservatives bitterly condemned the scheme. Was there indeed such an entity as the NATC? If so, who were its officers? How much capital did it have? And from where did it do its business? There were few satisfactory answers to these and a myriad of other questions. Detractors believed the NATC to be a fraud, "raking-off" government funds for services not rendered and a rancorous debate ensued in the House of Commons. The North Atlantic Trading Company contract was cancelled, effective April 14, 1906. The issue had become too hot politically and continued probes into the NATC would have further embarrassed the government. Frank Oliver, who succeeded Sifton as Minister of the Interior in 1905, continued Sifton's policy of paying booking agents to recruit suitable immigrants. In fact, not only was the policy retained, it was extended. Less than four months after the NATC contract was cancelled, the Department of the Interior had new immigration offices opened in Exeter, York, and Aberdeen and began to pay selected European booking agents a bonus for farmers, gardeners, carters, railway surfacemen, navvies (manual labourers building the rail lines without the benefit of machinery), and miners. The following year, 1907, the Immigration Branch adopted an even more aggressive approach to immigrant recruitment, appointing 100 government agents and paying each one a two-dollar bonus for every British agricultural labourer recruited and placed in Ontario or Quebec. Two and a half million immigrants came to Canada between 1904 and 1913. Nelson Itterman wrote: >Would that be companies or Churches? Churches played an active role in >assisting immigrants. >Nelson > >-----Original Message----- >From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org >[mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Carol >Duff >Sent: January-01-09 3:30 PM >To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil > > > Some of my family who went to Canada seem to have had their ship passage >paid for or partly paid for. This might have been true for Brazil also. It >seems that companies recruited settlers to come. Carol > > >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in >Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at >http://www.sggee.org/listserv Internal Virus Database is out of date. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 09/12/2008 >9:59 AM > > >_______________________________________________ >Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > From cmduff at redwing.net Fri Jan 2 10:30:18 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:30:18 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada and Brazil Message-ID: f086eef0d6cb5c3dd69c45ab0c76a9ba It was the reference to "Selkirk" on the notation of payment that led me to believe that it was companies. I know he formed a company to try to sel\ttle the Red River Valley in Minnesota. Carol From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 12:29:28 2009 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:29:28 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sao Paulo - Brazil References: <000901c96ae9$b2e66e60$18b34b20$@net> <001f01c96b39$8d620910$0401010a@Eduardo> <000b01c96b76$a3aa4dd0$eafee970$@net> Message-ID: <002001c96d19$62be04c0$070aa8c0@Eduardo> Hi Joe! There is a charge yes... 25 Reais is about 10 dollars for each certificate. The problem is how to pay from US. I have to check with those guys how to do this or I'll pay for you. Here is the link you have to fill. Use Google translator and you will understand. Let me know if you have some problem. http://www.memorialdoimigrante.sp.gov.br/servicos/certdesemb/index.asp Regards Eduardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Pessarra" To: "'Eduardo Kommers'" ; Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sao Paulo - Brazil > Thank you Eduardo. Found a Pessara immigrant to Brazil on this site. > First > one that I have found connected to Italy instead of Germany where my > Pessarra family originated. Will have to see if I can translate the > Portuguese and figure out how to get a copy of the certificate. Is there > a > charge involved? > > Joe in Texas > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of > Eduardo > Kommers > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:19 AM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sao Paulo - Brazil > > This is a link that provides arrival records of imigrants in the Sao Paulo > state, Brazil. > http://www.memorialdoimigrante.sp.gov.br/ > You just need to fill de box "SOBRENOME" and click on "BUSCAR". Also try > different spelling. If you find someone you are looking for you can also > ask > > for a certificate where shows many other info. > Brazil had basically two big places where the imigrants got in. Another > one > was in Rio de Janeiro state, the place is called Ilha das Flores (Flowers > Island). > > Let me now if you need help. > > Thanks > Eduardo > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From ocjw at rogers.com Fri Jan 2 15:26:02 2009 From: ocjw at rogers.com (OMAR WELKE) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:26:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil In-Reply-To: <67e3c660812312149q3697ba63j61721533b97251f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <255395.90113.qm@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mauricio ... my families too (Welke, Pufahl, Krebs) all immigrated to the South Brazil area in the 1920s so I feel a connection to my Volhynian-German-Brazilian bretheren :) ... Mnay Welkes still live in Brazil today ... I have close to 60 cousins most of whom I've never met. My father had 17 brothers and sisters ... hence the high number of cousins. I have a Noremberg family from Alberta, Canada who actually providedme with a Krebs family bible that greatly helped my research ... are you connected to these Norembergs? Omar Welke --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Mauricio Norenberg wrote: From: Mauricio Norenberg Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil To: "Jerry Frank" Cc: "GPV List" Received: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 5:49 AM Hi, Well, I have a good research about Volhynians on Brazil. I'm very curious about this stuff. I have a extensive documentation about my grandparents who migrated in 1908 to South Brazil. I can translate the Portuguese documentation I have, it's about the first Volhynian parish in Ijui village. And I can do a translation for you if you need. Please let me know about this stuff. Best Regards, Mauricio Norenberg 2008/12/30 Jerry Frank > This is a request for translation assistance but > please read through this before you automatically delete it. > > I have an 8 page history of the migration of > German Volhynians to Brazil written in > Portuguese. We would like to have it translated > into English. This may not be a huge project for > someone who at least has some background in both languages. > > I tested some paragraphs in GOOGLE Translator and > the English version comes out quite well, though > certainly far from perfect. The English would > need to be cleaned up and checked for context > problems. For example, the sentence: > > "A prov?ncia teve suas divisas alteradas ao longo dos s?culos." > > is translated as: > > "The province had its foreign currency changed over the centuries." > > In English we might think this is reference to > money but, in context, it is referring to > political control over Volhynia. So such > inconsistencies have to be spotted and corrected. > > There is no time limit for this project but it > would be nice to have it back within a few months. > > If you can help, please let us know and I will send the Word document to > you. > > Thank you. > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ocjw at rogers.com Fri Jan 2 15:34:07 2009 From: ocjw at rogers.com (OMAR WELKE) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:34:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil In-Reply-To: <000801c96c64$728c5a60$57a50f20$@net> Message-ID: <25258.39355.qm@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I think it may also have been a government insentive. I know my Welkes came to Brazil in the early 1920s and from conversations overheard growing up I recall that basically the land was given for a pittance to the settlers ... but there was a catch ... much of the land was still heavily wooded jungle and had to be cleared by the settlers before farming it. I still recall a story my father told me that sometime in the early 30s when he was? in his early teens he would ride between his parents farm and my his uncles farm down a long strech of road still surrounded by jungle and that he could sometimes hear wild animals (jaguars I would guess) stalking him and his horse just out of eyesight in the woods ... makes braving the mall today seem rather tame doesn't it? :) ? Regards Omar --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Nelson Itterman wrote: From: Nelson Itterman Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil To: "'Carol Duff'" , ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Received: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:58 PM Would that be companies or Churches? Churches played an active role in assisting immigrants. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Carol Duff Sent: January-01-09 3:30 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil Some of my family who went to Canada seem to have had their ship passage paid for or partly paid for. This might have been true for Brazil also. It seems that companies recruited settlers to come. Carol > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 09/12/2008 9:59 AM _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From benovich at imt.net Fri Jan 2 10:15:27 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:15:27 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Possible project: Volhynians in Brazil References: <67e3c660812312210h1d0fc09fx239c7a9a73279404@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01c96d06$18224420$0500a8c0@richard01> Mauricio, If your interests extend to post-1930 immigration to Brazil, you will find on the SGGEE website some information about an organization formed in 1935 (in cahoots with the German government) to find suitable immigrants to Brazil from among German refugees in Prussia (having come there from Poland and Volhynia after WW I). Records relating to the transfer of families were preserved by the Deutsches Ausland Institut and these were preserved among the "captured German war documents" now in the U.S. National Archives. Some of them were filmed and are on Rolls 353 and 354 of Series T-81 of the films in the National Archive collection. They only filmed the correspondance of a few dozen families (that of other families apparently still lies in the Berlin Document Center), but they are a rich (and probably untapped) source of genealogical information as well as clues about how the organization functioned. Here is the link: http://www.sggee.org/Germans_to_Brazil.html. Dick Benert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mauricio Norenberg" To: "GPV List" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Possible project: Volhynians in Brazil > Hi, > > I'm interested to start a project regarding the Volhynians who came to > Brazil. > When I started my personal research over my family who came from Volhynia, > I > found lack of information on Brazil. But with research time, I found a lot > of information on microfilms as well. And I have a lot of parish registers > that are no longer microfilmed. > Now I'm living in Auckland, and I have access to a good Library, that > makes > easier to do research. > Basically would be cataloging all the families who arrived from Volhynia, > usually identified by the Brazilian settlements they arrived. > > Curiously, the majority Volhynians went to specifics settlements reserved > for German-Russians. That's what happened on "Linha Silva Jardim" > settlement. I think had a specific Brazilian dealer that went to Volhynian > to advertise about Brazil. And I'm very curious how my ancestors decided > Brazil against Canada. I have relatives who went to Canada. Could have a > register about the propaganda made in Volhynia. Does somebody have > information about this? > > So, I'm looking forward for opinions about how can I make this catalog and > contribute with this community along the next year. > > Regards and happy new year! > > Mauricio Norenberg > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date: 12/31/2008 8:44 AM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1872 - Release Date: 1/2/2009 1:10 PM From marciaradis at msn.com Fri Jan 2 19:23:54 2009 From: marciaradis at msn.com (Marcia Oliveira) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 20:23:54 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] A piece of Immigration history in Brazil! Message-ID: Hi all, This is just a little of immigration history in Brasil. Roughly speaking, the migratory movements in Brazil can be divided into five steps: -Initial occupation by nomadic peoples of Asian origin who populated the American continent between 10 and 12 thousand years, known as Indians; -Colonization, between 1500 and 1822, almost made only by Portuguese and slaves from sub-Saharan Africa; -Migration of population in southern Brazil, started in 1824 by German immigrants and which continued after 1875, with Italian immigrants; -Immigration as a source of labor for the coffee farms in the region of S?o Paulo, between the end of the XIX century and beginning of the XX century, with a predominance of large Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Japanese; -Migration to urban centers with growing Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Japanese and Syrian-Lebanese, as well as several other nationalities; -More recent immigration, low population and little impact, begun in the 1970s. After the independence of Brazil from Portugal, immigration has become part of the Imperial policy, as the South of Brazil(Parana, Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul) continued depopulation and target of the greed of neighboring countries. The government started to encourage the establishment of colonies of settlers immigrantes. The most important moment in the history of immigration in Brazil were initiated at the end of the XIX century. This process immigrants, encouraged by the government and the land lords of cofee, aimed use of European workers in coffee plantations. The entry of African slaves in Brazil ended abruptly in 1850. The high infant mortality and the great disproportion of men compared to women was the reason of slave population to reproduce very slowly. Around 1880, the labor-slave was well-aged and the amount of labor-Brazilian, free or slave, was insufficient to meet the expansion of coffee plantations in S?o Paulo state.(southeast region). In 1878, ten years before the Abolition of Slavery, the Agricultural Conference held in Rio de Janeiro brought coffee to discuss the issue of labor. They chose to press the government to facilitate the arrival of European immigrants. The economic expansion and to a lesser extent, the need for colonization of virtually uninhabited regions of the country that encouraged the immigration to Brazil. Marcia From cmduff at redwing.net Fri Jan 2 19:51:31 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:51:31 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze Message-ID: 69fa1e6acd6bf28380f0ee0c8c1926bf I have such a difficult time visualizing where and what this was. I find it on vital statistics, but I really don't know what it is today. There were many Boguslawkas in many parts of Poland and Russia. Why were there so many? And who were the people in this place? Mine was German Lutheran from about 1885 and then was in Canada in 1890. Carol From mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 19:58:12 2009 From: mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com (Mauricio Norenberg) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:58:12 +1300 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil In-Reply-To: <25258.39355.qm@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000801c96c64$728c5a60$57a50f20$@net> <25258.39355.qm@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <67e3c660901021958sda5ca24xf9d87491027b3f17@mail.gmail.com> It's a common history. I'm starting to figure out that's a good subject. For some reason, have a lot o families that lost connections between Canada and Brazil. My grandmother ever told me his father sent a received many letters from Canada. As my research, it was 4 families (brothers/sisters) Johann Norenberg and Julianna Braun - > My grandparents, came to Brazil in 1908 Gottfried Norenberg and wife > Came to Brazil Emmilie Norenberg (married with Gottlieb Henschke - > Went to Canada Andreas Norenberg (married I don't remember who) I don't know where he went But my grandmother has still remembering and wishing to reconnect to this families on canada until his decease (2003). And it still my wish too. Mauricio Norenberg 2009/1/3 OMAR WELKE > I think it may also have been a government insentive. I know my Welkes came > to Brazil in the early 1920s and from conversations overheard growing up I > recall that basically the land was given for a pittance to the settlers ... > but there was a catch ... much of the land was still heavily wooded jungle > and had to be cleared by the settlers before farming it. > I still recall a story my father told me that sometime in the early 30s > when he was in his early teens he would ride between his parents farm and > my his uncles farm down a long strech of road still surrounded by jungle and > that he could sometimes hear wild animals (jaguars I would guess) stalking > him and his horse just out of eyesight in the woods ... makes braving the > mall today seem rather tame doesn't it? :) > > Regards > Omar > > --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Nelson Itterman wrote: > > From: Nelson Itterman > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil > To: "'Carol Duff'" , > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Received: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:58 PM > > Would that be companies or Churches? Churches played an active role in > assisting immigrants. > Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Carol > Duff > Sent: January-01-09 3:30 PM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canada vs. Brazil > > > Some of my family who went to Canada seem to have had their ship passage > paid for or partly paid for. This might have been true for Brazil also. It > seems that companies recruited settlers to come. Carol > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 09/12/2008 > 9:59 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 20:08:32 2009 From: mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com (Mauricio Norenberg) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:08:32 +1300 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil (Krebs) Message-ID: <67e3c660901022008h198576a5w44fae389a8ce2478@mail.gmail.com> Hi Omar, It is very interesting! I have a Krebs with direct connection with my family! Hulda Krebs, who married with one of Johann's Norenberg sons around 1920 ( I have the original marriage register!) I think your Krebs and Norenbergs are directly related to mine and would like to keep in touch :) Please provide me more details whether possible. Best Regards, Mauricio Trindade 2009/1/3 OMAR WELKE > Mauricio ... my families too (Welke, Pufahl, Krebs) all immigrated to the > South Brazil area in the 1920s so I feel a connection to my > Volhynian-German-Brazilian bretheren :) ... Mnay Welkes still live in Brazil > today ... I have close to 60 cousins most of whom I've never met. My father > had 17 brothers and sisters ... hence the high number of cousins. > I have a Noremberg family from Alberta, Canada who actually providedme with > a Krebs family bible that greatly helped my research ... are you connected > to these Norembergs? > Omar Welke > > --- On *Thu, 1/1/09, Mauricio Norenberg *wrote: > > From: Mauricio Norenberg > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil > To: "Jerry Frank" > Cc: "GPV List" > Received: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 5:49 AM > > > Hi, > > Well, I have a good research about Volhynians on Brazil. I'm very curious > about this stuff. I have a extensive documentation about my grandparents who > migrated in 1908 to South Brazil. > > I can translate the Portuguese documentation I have, it's about the first > Volhynian parish in Ijui village. > > And I can do a translation for you if you need. > > Please let me know about this stuff. > > Best Regards, > > Mauricio Norenberg > > 2008/12/30 Jerry Frank > > > This is a request for translation assistance but > > please read through this before you automatically delete it. > > > > I have an 8 page history of the migration of > > German Volhynians to Brazil written in > > Portuguese. We would like to have it translated > > into English. This may not be a huge project for > > someone who at least has some background in both languages. > > > > I tested some paragraphs in GOOGLE Translator and > > the English version comes out quite well, though > > certainly far from perfect. The English would > > need to be cleaned up and checked for context > > problems. For example, the sentence: > > > > "A prov?ncia teve suas divisas alteradas ao longo dos > s?culos." > > > > is translated as: > > > > "The province had its foreign currency changed over the > centuries." > > > > In English we might think this is reference to > > money but, in context, it is referring to > > political control over Volhynia. So such > > inconsistencies have to be spotted and corrected. > > > > There is no time limit for this project but it > > would be nice to have it back within a few months. > > > > If you can help, please let us know and I will send the Word document to > > you. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sat Jan 3 08:00:01 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:00:01 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze In-Reply-To: <69fa1e6acd6bf28380f0ee0c8c1926bf@prod.shaw.ca> References: <69fa1e6acd6bf28380f0ee0c8c1926bf@prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <7auabm$203dr2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Carol, Boguslawowka in Rozyszcze Parish is located about 10 km NW of Torczyn or 5 km NNE of Zaturcy. Not sure what you mean by difficulty visualizing it. If you want to see it on a map, use http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/A45_B40_(XXVIII-18)_ROZYSZCZE_300dpi.jpg A little up from the bottom left corner is Zaturce. Go a little further north to find Boguslawowka. We know that Germans lived in this village but there certainly could have been other ethnic groups resident there as well. There are numerous places in eastern Europe that duplicate their names as a result of days when villages were owned by a Lord. Janowka, John's village; Antonowka, Anton's village; Alexandrowka, Alexander's village; Boguslawowka, Boguslaw's village. Bog in Slavic languages = God. Boguslaw is the Polish equivalent of the German name Gottfried. Bogomil is the Polish equivalent of Gottlieb. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 08:51 PM 02/01/2009, Carol Duff wrote: > I have such a difficult time visualizing where and what this was. I >find it on vital statistics, but I really don't know what it is today. >There were many Boguslawkas in many parts of Poland and Russia. Why were >there so many? And who were the people in this place? Mine was German >Lutheran from about 1885 and then was in Canada in 1890. Carol From jeffkrebs at shaw.ca Fri Jan 2 15:57:05 2009 From: jeffkrebs at shaw.ca (Jeff Krebs) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:57:05 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil In-Reply-To: <255395.90113.qm@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <67e3c660812312149q3697ba63j61721533b97251f7@mail.gmail.com> <255395.90113.qm@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Omar Please contact me directly to compare our Krebs families. I've traced my Krebs branch originating from Waldmichaelbach, Hessen (circa 1755) to Josefsberg, Galicia and finally Josephburg, Alberta, Canada in the late 1800's. The family was large. Did some go back to Germany, or possibly other countries such as Brazil, Argentina, or Australia? I look forward to hearing from you. Jeff Krebs jeffkrebs at shaw.ca -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of OMAR WELKE Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 4:26 PM To: Jerry Frank; Mauricio Norenberg Cc: GPV List Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil Mauricio ... my families too (Welke, Pufahl, Krebs) all immigrated to the South Brazil area in the 1920s so I feel a connection to my Volhynian-German-Brazilian bretheren :) ... Mnay Welkes still live in Brazil today ... I have close to 60 cousins most of whom I've never met. My father had 17 brothers and sisters ... hence the high number of cousins. I have a Noremberg family from Alberta, Canada who actually providedme with a Krebs family bible that greatly helped my research ... are you connected to these Norembergs? Omar Welke --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Mauricio Norenberg wrote: From: Mauricio Norenberg Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil To: "Jerry Frank" Cc: "GPV List" Received: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 5:49 AM Hi, Well, I have a good research about Volhynians on Brazil. I'm very curious about this stuff. I have a extensive documentation about my grandparents who migrated in 1908 to South Brazil. I can translate the Portuguese documentation I have, it's about the first Volhynian parish in Ijui village. And I can do a translation for you if you need. Please let me know about this stuff. Best Regards, Mauricio Norenberg 2008/12/30 Jerry Frank > This is a request for translation assistance but > please read through this before you automatically delete it. > > I have an 8 page history of the migration of > German Volhynians to Brazil written in > Portuguese. We would like to have it translated > into English. This may not be a huge project for > someone who at least has some background in both languages. > > I tested some paragraphs in GOOGLE Translator and > the English version comes out quite well, though > certainly far from perfect. The English would > need to be cleaned up and checked for context > problems. For example, the sentence: > > "A prov?ncia teve suas divisas alteradas ao longo dos s?culos." > > is translated as: > > "The province had its foreign currency changed over the centuries." > > In English we might think this is reference to > money but, in context, it is referring to > political control over Volhynia. So such > inconsistencies have to be spotted and corrected. > > There is no time limit for this project but it > would be nice to have it back within a few months. > > If you can help, please let us know and I will send the Word document to > you. > > Thank you. > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ohgrmtns at aol.com Sat Jan 3 12:04:04 2009 From: ohgrmtns at aol.com (Kristen) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:04:04 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Does Daria Firus = Anna Dorothea Firus???? Message-ID: <8CB3BF59019B6BE-1430-489@WEBMAIL-DY03.sysops.aol.com> Does anyone know if Daria is a?shortened form of a name or a nickname?? My maternal g-g-g was listed as Daria FIRUS.? I can find a Anna Dorothea FIRUS married to a Martin STUEBNER but not a Daria FIRUS married to a Martin STIEBNER. Kristen FEIFERT Clark Researching: PFEIFER- PFEIFFER- FEIFFER- FEIFER- FEIFERT- PFEIFERT- PFEIFFERT; STIEBNER- STEBNER- STIBNER; KRUEGER- KRUGER; SONNENBERG; FIRUS; JABUSCH; HENNING; HENNIG; POLINSKE; ZIEBART- ZIEBARTH- CIEBART In: Lublin area; ?Nedbajewka, Gruental, Lodsjanowka, Kutuzowka, Volhynia From perry1121 at aol.com Sat Jan 3 14:01:32 2009 From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:01:32 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Does Daria Firus = Anna Dorothea Firus???? In-Reply-To: <8CB3BF59019B6BE-1430-489@WEBMAIL-DY03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3BF59019B6BE-1430-489@WEBMAIL-DY03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <495FE03C.6030604@aol.com> Kristen, Yes, I would say that Daria and Dorothea are the same name. While indexing for the Lublin Project, I have seen this many times. The name is Daria in Cyrillic and usually Dorotta in Polish; the same given name is Dorothea in German. Sometimes the scribe or pastor will write a closer version of Dorothea in Cyrillic, but quite often it's Daria. And I've seen the same person listed more than once in the records, so I know that it's an equivalent and not just a different name. Sigrid Kristen wrote: > Does anyone know if Daria is a?shortened form of a name or a nickname?? My maternal g-g-g was listed as Daria FIRUS.? I can find a Anna Dorothea FIRUS married to a Martin STUEBNER but not a Daria FIRUS married to a Martin STIEBNER. > > > Kristen FEIFERT Clark > > Researching: PFEIFER- PFEIFFER- FEIFFER- FEIFER- FEIFERT- PFEIFERT- PFEIFFERT; STIEBNER- STEBNER- STIBNER; KRUEGER- KRUGER; SONNENBERG; FIRUS; JABUSCH; HENNING; HENNIG; POLINSKE; ZIEBART- ZIEBARTH- CIEBART > > In: Lublin area; ?Nedbajewka, Gruental, Lodsjanowka, Kutuzowka, Volhynia > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From jibeho22 at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 16:03:41 2009 From: jibeho22 at comcast.net (Randy Marks) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:03:41 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka Message-ID: <007201c96dff$e76dca70$7101a8c0@jibeho10> Jerry recently posted a link to a map for Rozyszcze Parish . This caught my eye because I have been trying to find a map that shows the towns where a great uncle (Gustav Marks) was born and died. According to the Odessa death records, Gustav was born in Belgatow and died about the age of 1 years on Nov 26, 1882 in Janowka. The map Jerry posted shows a town of Janowka located approx. 50 deg. 59' North and 42 deg 57' East.. Is there a way to determine if this Janowka on the map is in fact where my great uncle died? Does anybody know where I might find a similar map that shows Belgatow? Thanks much, Randy Marks Researching the following names: MARKS (August, Mariane/Mathilde, Amalie/Emilie, William, August Jr., Adolph, Leopold, Andrew, Martha, Albert, Gottfried) KIRSCH (Mathilde) TOENNES (Edgar, Albert) KIRCHER / KIERCHER (Frederick, Martha, Magdalena/Lena) SCHOOK (Magdalena/Lena/Martha) WELTER (Kate/Ella) From ra_stein at telus.net Sat Jan 3 16:38:11 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:38:11 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka In-Reply-To: <007201c96dff$e76dca70$7101a8c0@jibeho10> References: <007201c96dff$e76dca70$7101a8c0@jibeho10> Message-ID: <93CF28CC428A4774A43361BEBDD062A4@RichardPC> Randy, Belgatow is probably Belchatow, Poland located at 51-22 N, 19-23 E, 43 km south of Lodz which, in turn, is 119 km WSW of Warsaw. Belchatow is an administrative town and the location of the Lutheran parish church. Gustav Marks may have been born in a smaller village in the vicinity of Belchatow. The Parish Records Index database has the marriage of Gustav's parents in 1881 at Belchatow. The parents' names are August Marks and Maryanna Mathilde Kirsch. Their ages, names of their parents, and village of residence should be on the microfilm number 1733566. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Marks" To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka > > Jerry recently posted a link to a map for Rozyszcze Parish . > This caught my eye because I have been trying to find a map that shows the > towns where a great uncle (Gustav Marks) was born and died. > According to the Odessa death records, Gustav was born in Belgatow and > died about the age of 1 years on Nov 26, 1882 in Janowka. > The map Jerry posted shows a town of Janowka located approx. 50 deg. 59' > North and 42 deg 57' East.. > > Is there a way to determine if this Janowka on the map is in fact where my > great uncle died? > > Does anybody know where I might find a similar map that shows Belgatow? > > Thanks much, > Randy Marks > > Researching the following names: > MARKS (August, Mariane/Mathilde, Amalie/Emilie, William, August Jr., > Adolph, Leopold, Andrew, Martha, Albert, Gottfried) > KIRSCH (Mathilde) > TOENNES (Edgar, Albert) > KIRCHER / KIERCHER (Frederick, Martha, Magdalena/Lena) > SCHOOK (Magdalena/Lena/Martha) > WELTER (Kate/Ella) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Jan 3 16:54:01 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:54:01 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka In-Reply-To: <93CF28CC428A4774A43361BEBDD062A4@RichardPC> References: <007201c96dff$e76dca70$7101a8c0@jibeho10> <93CF28CC428A4774A43361BEBDD062A4@RichardPC> Message-ID: <000301c96e06$ef1e4f90$cd5aeeb0$@net> JewishGen ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp shows 16 locations for a town of Janowka. Using Dick's coordinates for Belchatow in ShtetlSeeker finds one town of Janowka that is only 19.7 miles north of Belchatow, and one town of Janowka that is only 19.8 miles southwest of Belchatow. Not sure which is the right one for Randy. Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Richard Stein Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:38 PM To: Randy Marks; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka Randy, Belgatow is probably Belchatow, Poland located at 51-22 N, 19-23 E, 43 km south of Lodz which, in turn, is 119 km WSW of Warsaw. Belchatow is an administrative town and the location of the Lutheran parish church. Gustav Marks may have been born in a smaller village in the vicinity of Belchatow. The Parish Records Index database has the marriage of Gustav's parents in 1881 at Belchatow. The parents' names are August Marks and Maryanna Mathilde Kirsch. Their ages, names of their parents, and village of residence should be on the microfilm number 1733566. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Marks" To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka > > Jerry recently posted a link to a map for Rozyszcze Parish . > This caught my eye because I have been trying to find a map that shows the > towns where a great uncle (Gustav Marks) was born and died. > According to the Odessa death records, Gustav was born in Belgatow and > died about the age of 1 years on Nov 26, 1882 in Janowka. > The map Jerry posted shows a town of Janowka located approx. 50 deg. 59' > North and 42 deg 57' East.. > > Is there a way to determine if this Janowka on the map is in fact where my > great uncle died? > > Does anybody know where I might find a similar map that shows Belgatow? > > Thanks much, > Randy Marks > > Researching the following names: > MARKS (August, Mariane/Mathilde, Amalie/Emilie, William, August Jr., > Adolph, Leopold, Andrew, Martha, Albert, Gottfried) > KIRSCH (Mathilde) > TOENNES (Edgar, Albert) > KIRCHER / KIERCHER (Frederick, Martha, Magdalena/Lena) > SCHOOK (Magdalena/Lena/Martha) > WELTER (Kate/Ella) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gary at warnerengineering.com Sat Jan 3 17:11:21 2009 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:11:21 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Does Daria Firus = Anna Dorothea Firus???? In-Reply-To: <8CB3BF59019B6BE-1430-489@WEBMAIL-DY03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3BF59019B6BE-1430-489@WEBMAIL-DY03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <49600CB9.4040506@warnerengineering.com> Carol, According to the Behind the Name website *DARIA * f Italian , Polish , Romanian , English Feminine form of DARIUS ... [more] Gary Kristen wrote: > Does anyone know if Daria is a?shortened form of a name or a nickname?? My maternal g-g-g was listed as Daria FIRUS.? I can find a Anna Dorothea FIRUS married to a Martin STUEBNER but not a Daria FIRUS married to a Martin STIEBNER. > > > Kristen FEIFERT Clark > > Researching: PFEIFER- PFEIFFER- FEIFFER- FEIFER- FEIFERT- PFEIFERT- PFEIFFERT; STIEBNER- STEBNER- STIBNER; KRUEGER- KRUGER; SONNENBERG; FIRUS; JABUSCH; HENNING; HENNIG; POLINSKE; ZIEBART- ZIEBARTH- CIEBART > > In: Lublin area; ?Nedbajewka, Gruental, Lodsjanowka, Kutuzowka, Volhynia > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From roseingram at shaw.ca Sat Jan 3 18:50:39 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:50:39 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 Message-ID: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> In September of 2008 we heard about "Ancestry's Canadian Passenger lists are online and The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images!" For those of you who do not have a subscription to Ancestry.ca this may be of interest to you. The direct link shown below also is linked to images. New Online Resource: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 Posted 22 December 2008 By Sylvie Tremblay, Acting Head, Canadian Genealogy Centre, Client Services Division, Library and Archives Canada Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is pleased to announce the launch of a new online database, Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900. Through this online database, researchers can search by name of passengers to access digitized images of original passenger lists for arrivals at Quebec from 1865 to 1900 which list the name, age, country of origin, occupation and destination of each passenger. The database is available at: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 Library and Archives Canada gratefully acknowledges the contribution of Ancestry.ca, without which this project would not have been possible. -------------- Rose Ingram From kopetzke at gmx.net Sun Jan 4 03:01:50 2009 From: kopetzke at gmx.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Irene_K=F6nig?=) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:01:50 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 In-Reply-To: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> References: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> Message-ID: <4960971E.5030803@gmx.net> Rose, Thank you for pointing out the link to ancestry.ca. I found an Emil KOPETZKE who may have been my grandfather or more probably a cousin of him. Emil was from Beresowo Hath, Volhynia. As far as I know he came to Canada in abt. 1912 and met up with a distant cousin, Adolph Stebner, then went to live in Michigan, then went on to Almena, Wisconsin where he passed away in about 1949. May I ask someone having a subscription to ancestry.ca to look up if they have more information on him? Thank you in advance. Irene K?nig Rose Ingram schrieb am 04.01.2009 03:50 Uhr: > In September of 2008 we heard about "Ancestry's Canadian Passenger > lists are online and The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to > images!" From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 07:32:03 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:32:03 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka In-Reply-To: <93CF28CC428A4774A43361BEBDD062A4@RichardPC> References: <007201c96dff$e76dca70$7101a8c0@jibeho10> <93CF28CC428A4774A43361BEBDD062A4@RichardPC> Message-ID: <7auabm$209q17@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Randy, Dick's idea is certainly correct given that he found the parents located there. As for Janowka, you would not expect it to be close to Belchatow as indicated in another message by Joe but rather in the Rozyszcze where you found the record. Unfortunately there are at least 2 possibilities in that parish. There is one about 4 km SE of Torczyn just out of range of the referenced map and one about 7 km N of Rozyszcze. The latter is the one for which you gave the coordinates. IMPORTANT: The easting you gave for this coordinate is based on Ferro. If you are comparing to other maps, you may need to convert to Greenwich by subtracting approximately 17 degrees. To figure out which is the correct one, you have to look at the original church books. Records were collected by the pastor as he travelled through the villages. Find the villages both before and after your record. They may not be in precise order but they will give you enough of a close grouping to determine if it is near Rozyszcze or near Torczyn. SGGEE members can do this with the database using our special search tool at http://www.sggee.org/members/StPeteByRoute Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 05:38 PM 03/01/2009, Richard Stein wrote: >Randy, > >Belgatow is probably Belchatow, Poland located at 51-22 N, 19-23 E, 43 km >south of Lodz which, in turn, is 119 km WSW of Warsaw. Belchatow is an >administrative town and the location of the Lutheran parish church. Gustav >Marks may have been born in a smaller village in the vicinity of Belchatow. >The Parish Records Index database has the marriage of Gustav's parents in >1881 at Belchatow. The parents' names are August Marks and Maryanna >Mathilde Kirsch. Their ages, names of their parents, and village of >residence should be on the microfilm number 1733566. > >Dick Stein > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Randy Marks" >To: >Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:03 PM >Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of Belgatow and Janowka > > > > > > Jerry recently posted a link to a map for Rozyszcze Parish . > > This caught my eye because I have been trying to find a map that shows the > > towns where a great uncle (Gustav Marks) was born and died. > > According to the Odessa death records, Gustav was born in Belgatow and > > died about the age of 1 years on Nov 26, 1882 in Janowka. > > The map Jerry posted shows a town of Janowka located approx. 50 deg. 59' > > North and 42 deg 57' East.. > > > > Is there a way to determine if this Janowka on the map is in fact where my > > great uncle died? > > > > Does anybody know where I might find a similar map that shows Belgatow? > > > > Thanks much, > > Randy Marks > > > > Researching the following names: > > MARKS (August, Mariane/Mathilde, Amalie/Emilie, William, August Jr., > > Adolph, Leopold, Andrew, Martha, Albert, Gottfried) > > KIRSCH (Mathilde) > > TOENNES (Edgar, Albert) > > KIRCHER / KIERCHER (Frederick, Martha, Magdalena/Lena) > > SCHOOK (Magdalena/Lena/Martha) > > WELTER (Kate/Ella) From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 07:41:50 2009 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:41:50 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Just for curiosity In-Reply-To: <749760560901021608x65fec7a3i68cca08d7a26d069@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949778C.8040302@warnerengineering.com> <023e01c969cf$b26092b0$0401010a@Eduardo> <749760560812290823g22820a01y70fa6dc128c576e0@mail.gmail.com> <001401c96d16$d549ee30$070aa8c0@Eduardo> <749760560901021608x65fec7a3i68cca08d7a26d069@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <25474a970901040741y4fabf84dx961165839ee26e67@mail.gmail.com> I tried to find out a reason for my family boarding in France but have no concrete answer. Just theories. One of those was the pass was cheaper than other ports. Do you need help for finding the arrival certificate of your family in Brazil? For Rio de Janeiro there is no online database. Let me know. Eduardo 2009/1/2 Gess Ellwanger > Greetings! Thank you for the pictures of the passenger list. > I find it very interesting that your German family boarded the ship in > Marseille, France to travel to Santos. Apparently they were the only German > family on board. > > It would make more sense if they had taken the ship in Hamburg or, Bremen, > the port where my mother and her family started their trip to Rio de > Janeiro, June 1914. > > I am wondering if you have any idea why why your German family was in > France in 1897? > > Thank again. > > Ge > > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Eduardo Kommers < > eduardo.kommers at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Gess! >> >> I took 3 pictures of the 3 pages I have as the passanger list of the ship >> my family came to Brazil. >> >> Let me know about any doubt. >> >> Regards >> Eduardo >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Gess Ellwanger >> *To:* Eduardo Kommers >> *Sent:* Monday, December 29, 2008 2:23 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Just for curiosity >> >> Hello Eduardo, >> I am very interested in the passenger list you are talking about. >> I am making research about my German family that emigrated to Brazil. >> I hope you will respond to my email with the information you have. >> Thanks, >> Gess >> >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Eduardo Kommers < >> eduardo.kommers at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I just got in my hands the passanger list of the ship that my family came >>> to >>> Brazil. Curious is that the only german family approach was mine. I could >>> check there were italians, palestinians, greeks, swiss. >>> Am I right if I think that sometimes families did not travel in groups on >>> the way to Americas? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Eduardo Kommers >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >>> >> >> > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 07:49:31 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:49:31 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 In-Reply-To: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> References: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> Message-ID: <7au4gf$1dn7br@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Rose mentioned a link below but it did not show up in my email. The link for the name search is: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passengers-quebec-1865-1900/001082-100.01-e.php Once you find a person of interest, you can search for the images of the original at: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/001045-100.01-e.php Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 07:50 PM 03/01/2009, Rose Ingram wrote: >In September of 2008 we heard about "Ancestry's Canadian Passenger lists are >online and The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images!" > >For those of you who do not have a subscription to Ancestry.ca this >may be of interest to you. The direct link shown below also is >linked to images. > > >New Online Resource: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 >Posted 22 December 2008 >By Sylvie Tremblay, Acting Head, Canadian Genealogy Centre, Client >Services Division, Library and Archives Canada > > >Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is pleased to announce the launch >of a new online database, Quebec City Passenger Lists Index >1865-1900. Through this online database, researchers can search by >name of passengers to access digitized images of original passenger >lists for arrivals at Quebec from 1865 to 1900 which list the name, >age, country of origin, occupation and destination of each passenger. > >The database is available at: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 > >Library and Archives Canada gratefully acknowledges the contribution >of Ancestry.ca, without which this project would not have been possible. > >-------------- >Rose Ingram > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 07:58:38 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:58:38 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] I goofed! Re: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 In-Reply-To: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> References: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> Message-ID: <796o8r$2p8s36@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Sorry, you do not have to use the second link I provided to view the image. You can go directly to the image from the search results page. Use the second link if you need to search other ports or Quebec after 1900. Jerry At 07:50 PM 03/01/2009, Rose Ingram wrote: >In September of 2008 we heard about "Ancestry's Canadian Passenger lists are >online and The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images!" > >For those of you who do not have a subscription to Ancestry.ca this >may be of interest to you. The direct link shown below also is >linked to images. > > >New Online Resource: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 >Posted 22 December 2008 >By Sylvie Tremblay, Acting Head, Canadian Genealogy Centre, Client >Services Division, Library and Archives Canada > > >Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is pleased to announce the launch >of a new online database, Quebec City Passenger Lists Index >1865-1900. Through this online database, researchers can search by >name of passengers to access digitized images of original passenger >lists for arrivals at Quebec from 1865 to 1900 which list the name, >age, country of origin, occupation and destination of each passenger. > >The database is available at: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 > >Library and Archives Canada gratefully acknowledges the contribution >of Ancestry.ca, without which this project would not have been possible. > >-------------- >Rose Ingram > From roseingram at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 10:30:59 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:30:59 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 References: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> <0KCY00JMQEUW9DV0@l-daemon> Message-ID: <009a01c96e9a$9770f0b0$6601a8c0@duocore> OOps, sorry about that. I copied and pasted from another message, but the link did not copy. The first link in Jerry's message is correct. A word of caution, the transcribed names on the index are not always correct, or they may be correct BUT not written on the manifest in a way you would expect. Rose ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Frank To: Rose Ingram ; GPV List Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 Rose mentioned a link below but it did not show up in my email. The link for the name search is: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passengers-quebec-1865-1900/001082-100.01-e.php Once you find a person of interest, you can search for the images of the original at: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/001045-100.01-e.php Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 07:50 PM 03/01/2009, Rose Ingram wrote: >In September of 2008 we heard about "Ancestry's Canadian Passenger lists are >online and The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images!" > >For those of you who do not have a subscription to Ancestry.ca this >may be of interest to you. The direct link shown below also is >linked to images. > > >New Online Resource: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 >Posted 22 December 2008 >By Sylvie Tremblay, Acting Head, Canadian Genealogy Centre, Client >Services Division, Library and Archives Canada > > >Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is pleased to announce the launch >of a new online database, Quebec City Passenger Lists Index >1865-1900. Through this online database, researchers can search by >name of passengers to access digitized images of original passenger >lists for arrivals at Quebec from 1865 to 1900 which list the name, >age, country of origin, occupation and destination of each passenger. > >The database is available at: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 > >Library and Archives Canada gratefully acknowledges the contribution >of Ancestry.ca, without which this project would not have been possible. > >-------------- >Rose Ingram > From jeffkrebs at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 10:58:52 2009 From: jeffkrebs at shaw.ca (Jeff Krebs) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:58:52 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 In-Reply-To: <009a01c96e9a$9770f0b0$6601a8c0@duocore> References: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> <0KCY00JMQEUW9DV0@l-daemon> <009a01c96e9a$9770f0b0$6601a8c0@duocore> Message-ID: Rose Thank you for the information. I haven't been to Collections Canada for some time, and last night I found that my Krebs came through Quebec, the ship, ages of when they came, etc.! It's a great site for information. A couple of years ago I was able to get a 50 and 100 page report on one of my family members dating from 1917. These solved a mystery that had only been a rumor. After reading the reports, it explained why some of the great aunts and uncles would not talk about some areas of our family. Jeff Krebs -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Rose Ingram Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:31 AM To: GPV List Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 OOps, sorry about that. I copied and pasted from another message, but the link did not copy. The first link in Jerry's message is correct. A word of caution, the transcribed names on the index are not always correct, or they may be correct BUT not written on the manifest in a way you would expect. Rose ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Frank To: Rose Ingram ; GPV List Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 Rose mentioned a link below but it did not show up in my email. The link for the name search is: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passengers-quebec-1865-1900/001 082-100.01-e.php Once you find a person of interest, you can search for the images of the original at: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/001045-100.01-e.php Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 07:50 PM 03/01/2009, Rose Ingram wrote: >In September of 2008 we heard about "Ancestry's Canadian Passenger lists are >online and The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images!" > >For those of you who do not have a subscription to Ancestry.ca this >may be of interest to you. The direct link shown below also is >linked to images. > > >New Online Resource: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 >Posted 22 December 2008 >By Sylvie Tremblay, Acting Head, Canadian Genealogy Centre, Client >Services Division, Library and Archives Canada > > >Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is pleased to announce the launch >of a new online database, Quebec City Passenger Lists Index >1865-1900. Through this online database, researchers can search by >name of passengers to access digitized images of original passenger >lists for arrivals at Quebec from 1865 to 1900 which list the name, >age, country of origin, occupation and destination of each passenger. > >The database is available at: Quebec City Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 > >Library and Archives Canada gratefully acknowledges the contribution >of Ancestry.ca, without which this project would not have been possible. > >-------------- >Rose Ingram > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From daveobee at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 11:04:31 2009 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:04:31 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canadian immigration records In-Reply-To: <009a01c96e9a$9770f0b0$6601a8c0@duocore> References: <007601c96e17$3a1f6910$6601a8c0@duocore> <0KCY00JMQEUW9DV0@l-daemon> <009a01c96e9a$9770f0b0$6601a8c0@duocore> Message-ID: Hello to all... Interesting discussion re passenger lists. Please note that there is a website that lists all of the top Canadian resources, that is more useful than any of the other link sites, includes immigration records, and is compiled by a Volhynian descendant to boot. I have mentioned this site before. It is updated as quickly as possible after new records are put online. The Ancestry passenger lists were linked there within 12 hours of going public, the LAC stuff the same day it was released as well. Beyond all that, the compiler of this site is in regular contact with LAC and Ancestry brass, so he knows what is coming up, and all that stuff. There are people who use it regularly and tell the compiler that it has saved them all sorts of time. There are many more people who do not use it, but knowing it is helping some people at least makes it worth the cost, in terms of time and money. The immigration page is here: http://www.cangenealogy.com/immigration.html Dave Obee From ggomes at soundviewnet.com Sun Jan 4 11:39:41 2009 From: ggomes at soundviewnet.com (Gary Gomes) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:39:41 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother, Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.). Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in 1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these dates are after the St Petersburg records. They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph Pachal. Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk). Any guidance is appreciated. Gary Gomes From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Jan 4 14:25:07 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:25:07 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79pc8o$1oprt5@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Gary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote: >I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother, >Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.). > >Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian >Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in >1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these >dates are after the St Petersburg records. > >They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to >Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph >Pachal. > >Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel >Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their >residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk). > >Any guidance is appreciated. > >Gary Gomes > From albertmuth at aol.com Sun Jan 4 15:01:14 2009 From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:01:14 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski In-Reply-To: <79pc8o$1oprt5@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> References: <79pc8o$1oprt5@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <8CB3CD77A70A2E5-16CC-86B@MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> I have checked my transcribed Rozyszcze marriages 1886-1888 and find no record of a marriage between Christian Lange and Teofila Malachowski Are the birth years of the children "written in stone"?? That is, is there a possibility that the marriage could be a year sooner, or a year later? Al Muth -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Frank To: Gary Gomes ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 5:25 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski Gary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote: >I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother, >Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.). > >Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian >Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in >1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these >dates are after the St Petersburg records. > >They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to >Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph >Pachal. > >Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel >Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their >residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk). > >Any guidance is appreciated. > >Gary Gomes > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From cmduff at redwing.net Sun Jan 4 16:47:17 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:47:17 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 369dad514033ae64c95110c11299ec9d I'm risking boring many of you but I am posting family again. Primary family: August Schuman b. 17 Jan 1858 supposedly in Deutsche Krone West Prussia Auguste Freiman b. 16 Sept 1864 supposedly in East Prussia The three verified records that I have are: Auguste Pauline Schumann: (not in family memory) b. 13 Dec 1882 in Boguslowka to August Schumann, mother Auguste Freimann(film 1895614/3 547 109) godparents Wilhelm Drager and Bertha (Schumann) Freymann... baptised in Boguslawka prayer house. Fredrich Wilhelm Schumann born: 18 Dec 1885, Boguslawka (1897692/1 376 1594 ) a younger sister remembered him dying of "black diphtheria as well as three other children. Schuhmann, Mathilde 15 Sep 1881 August Auguste 1897594/1 384 1370 Rogoslawka ( think this was meant to be Boguslawka also) supposedly there was also a Karl and a Bertha A. as children Emma Wilhelmina Schumann b 9 Mar 1888 Canadian records list birth as Wolhynia, Shittomir Ida Schumann b. 12 Dec 1889 Gustav Schumann b. 14 May 1889 Minna Helena Schumann b 30 Oct 1893 (family lore says she was born in Eichfier, West Prussia.) Minnie tested positive for TB and had one missing lung. The four youngest children were brought to Canada by grandmother, Caroline (Weinert) Freimann after the last parent, mother, died in 1902. Caroline brought them to Westaskiwin, Alberta where two of her sons, Friedrich Freimann and Karl Freimann were already living. Emma married Gottlieb Jobs in Canada (I believe he is Jabs on the Volhynian records), Ida married Blake Johnston, Gustave died in Mar 1909, Emmaus Lutheran Church, Brightview Cemetery, Wetaskiwin. Other families associated by marriage with this family are Woitt, Warnke, Draeger, Grahn, Graeffen, Grabowsky, Haas, Fee, Westendorf I'd appreciate any further information that anyone has on this family. Beond the 3 birth records, I have no concrete information on the family before they came to Canada on the steamship S.S. Lake Champlain which sailed from Liverpool 28 October and arrived 7 November 1902. The ship was only 1/2 full and they were the only German passengers. > From dr.stewner at t-online.de Mon Jan 5 08:35:19 2009 From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:35:19 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Gorka-Gorki in Poland Message-ID: <97C670F3F3B14E93808E1DFBFF69D7A5@Acer> There are around 30 differently described Gorka/Gorki in the the MPD and 6 in the SGGEE001r9 file of Al Muth. One Gorki is sure: it lays in the Dabie Parish SW of Klodawa at 52?13' Nort and 18? 52' East. There is another one according to the sources in the Babiak parish, where birthes are recorded in four different named locations: "Gorka, Wloclawek", "Gorka, Kolo", "Gorka, Poland",and "Gorki, Poland". The last one is predominent the others only one person per location. And that village is on no map I have. There is another Gorki N of Klodawa at 52?17'N 18?57'E on two ca. 1900 maps at the place where now, 1809 and 1930 is Dlugie. But that village seems to belong to the Przedecz-Parish. Around Babiak there are two villages starting with "Gor": Goraj and Gory. Any help appreciated. Frank Stewner From edies_hook at msn.com Mon Jan 5 09:46:41 2009 From: edies_hook at msn.com (Edith McKelvy) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:46:41 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Pronunciation of TSCHERNJACHOW Message-ID: Good Morning! I'm still looking for my elusive paternal grandfather, FRIEDRICH REMPEL/RIMPEL/RIMPLE. New clues (a priceless oral interview on CD with a cousin who has since passed away) point to a town near Zhitomir named TSCHERNJACHOW. How would the name Tschernjachow (now known as Czerniachiw, UK) be pronounced/spoken? Cher-nya-chef? SHER-na-koff? Edith Rimple McKelvy edies_hook at msn.com From cmduff at redwing.net Mon Jan 5 11:14:48 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:14:48 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze In-Reply-To: <7auabm$203dr2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> References: <69fa1e6acd6bf28380f0ee0c8c1926bf@prod.shaw.ca> <7auabm$203dr2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <49625C28.5050904@redwing.net> Thank you Jerry, this helps a lot. Is this still a village today? Is this close to Anielowka which I didn't see on the map? How far is it from Stieglitz which I _think_ is Pozen? How far from West Prussia where some of the family were born. Jerry Frank wrote: > Carol, > > Boguslawowka in Rozyszcze Parish is located about 10 km NW of Torczyn > or 5 km NNE of Zaturcy. From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Jan 5 12:26:02 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:26:02 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze In-Reply-To: <49625C28.5050904@redwing.net> References: <69fa1e6acd6bf28380f0ee0c8c1926bf@prod.shaw.ca> <7auabm$203dr2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <49625C28.5050904@redwing.net> Message-ID: Carol, If you use this map http://download.maps.vlasenko.net/smtm100/m-35-038.jpg and compare to the previous one, you will see that Boguslawka does not appear on the modern one.? Doesn't mean it no longer exists but it at least wasn't important enough to show it. On that map, go down the right edge to the line 30.? Follow that a little ways to the left till you encounter the large town beginning with what looks like a 3.? That is Zaturcy.? On this map http://www.sggee.org/members/pdf_maps/volhynia/VolC2003.pdf you can again find Boguslawka.? A little to the northeast you will see Anieluwka.? It is in fact on the original map I referred you to, just a little east of the larger town of Chorochoryn.? Keep in mind that there is another Anieluwka in Volhynia.? If there is a family connection between the two villages, it would be safe to assume that this is the correct one.? However, if you are dealing with different families, you may have to consider the other as well. Distances to Posen and Prussia will be in the range of 300 km or so. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol Duff Date: Monday, January 5, 2009 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze To: Jerry Frank , ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Thank you Jerry, this helps a lot. Is this still a village > today? Is > this close to Anielowka which I didn't see on the map?? How > far is it > from Stieglitz which I _think_ is Pozen? How far from West > Prussia where > some of the family were born. > > Jerry Frank wrote: > > Carol, > > > > Boguslawowka in Rozyszcze Parish is located about 10 km NW of > Torczyn > > or 5 km NNE of Zaturcy. > From ironhide781 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 5 12:31:22 2009 From: ironhide781 at hotmail.com (Brandt Gibson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:31:22 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Looking for Joseph family from Zhitomir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm looking for information on the Samuel and Pauline (Rosen) Joseph from Zhitomir. According to the Canadian border crossing records and passenger list records, Sam and his family came from Zhitomir in October 1905. They immigrated through Liverpool, England and landed in Montreal, Quebec, then moved to Winnipeg, Manitoba. I'm trying to see if anyone can find any info on Josephs living in Zhitomir from 1880-1905. The family consisted of: Samuel Joseph, b. 1866 (in Uljanowka, according to the Canadian border crossings) Pauline (Rosen) Joseph, b.1871 Olga Joseph b. 1889 Augusta Joseph b. 1892 Emil Joseph b. 1893 Lydia Joseph b. 1894 Helena Joseph b. 1902 I have the ship records of the family leaving England, but I don't know how they got there or where they left from in Russia/Ukraine. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Brandt GibsonFrom: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.orgSubject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 7To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:00:02 -0800Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhyniaor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..."--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.caTo: ggomes at soundviewnet.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:25:07 -0700Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila MalachowskiGary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, AlbertaFranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote:>I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother,>Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.).>>Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian>Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in>1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these>dates are after the St Petersburg records.>>They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to>Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph>Pachal.>>Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel>Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their>residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk).>>Any guidance is appreciated.>>Gary Gomes> --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: albertmuth at aol.comTo: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:01:14 -0500Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila MalachowskiI have checked my transcribed Rozyszcze marriages 1886-1888 and find no record of a marriage between Christian Lange and Teofila Malachowski Are the birth years of the children "written in stone"?? That is, is there a possibility that the marriage could be a year sooner, or a year later? Al Muth -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Frank To: Gary Gomes ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgSent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 5:25 pmSubject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski Gary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, AlbertaFranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote:>I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother,>Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.).>>Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian>Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in>1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these>dates are after the St Petersburg records.>>They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to>Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph>Pachal.>>Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel>Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their>residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk).>>Any guidance is appreciated.>>Gary Gomes> _______________________________________________Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted bySociety for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: cmduff at redwing.netTo: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:47:17 -0600Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in RozyszczeI'm risking boring many of you but I am posting family again.Primary family: August Schuman b. 17 Jan 1858 supposedly in Deutsche Krone West Prussia Auguste Freiman b. 16 Sept 1864 supposedly in East Prussia The three verified records that I have are: Auguste Pauline Schumann: (not in family memory) b. 13 Dec 1882 in Boguslowka to August Schumann, mother Auguste Freimann(film 1895614/3 547 109) godparents Wilhelm Drager and Bertha (Schumann) Freymann... baptised in Boguslawka prayer house. Fredrich Wilhelm Schumann born: 18 Dec 1885, Boguslawka (1897692/1 376 1594 ) a younger sister remembered him dying of "black diphtheria as well as three other children. Schuhmann, Mathilde 15 Sep 1881 August Auguste 1897594/1 384 1370 Rogoslawka ( think this was meant to be Boguslawka also) supposedly there was also a Karl and a Bertha A. as children Emma Wilhelmina Schumann b 9 Mar 1888 Canadian records list birth as Wolhynia, Shittomir Ida Schumann b. 12 Dec 1889 Gustav Schumann b. 14 May 1889 Minna Helena Schumann b 30 Oct 1893 (family lore says she was born in Eichfier, West Prussia.) Minnie tested positive for TB and had one missing lung.The four youngest children were brought to Canada by grandmother, Caroline (Weinert) Freimann after the last parent, mother, died in 1902. Caroline brought them to Westaskiwin, Alberta where two of her sons, Friedrich Freimann and Karl Freimann were already living. Emma married Gottlieb Jobs in Canada (I believe he is Jabs on the Volhynian records), Ida married Blake Johnston, Gustave died in Mar 1909, Emmaus Lutheran Church, Brightview Cemetery, Wetaskiwin. Other families associated by marriage with this family are Woitt, Warnke, Draeger, Grahn, Graeffen, Grabowsky, Haas, Fee, Westendorf I'd appreciate any further information that anyone has on this family. Beond the 3 birth records, I have no concrete information on the family before they came to Canada on the steamship S.S. Lake Champlain which sailed from Liverpool 28 October and arrived 7 November 1902. The ship was only 1/2 full and they were the only German passengers. > --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: dr.stewner at t-online.deTo: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:35:19 +0100Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Gorka-Gorki in PolandThere are around 30 differently described Gorka/Gorki in the the MPD and 6 in the SGGEE001r9 file of Al Muth.One Gorki is sure: it lays in the Dabie Parish SW of Klodawa at 52?13' Nort and 18? 52' East. There is another one according to the sources in the Babiak parish, where birthes are recorded in four different named locations:"Gorka, Wloclawek", "Gorka, Kolo", "Gorka, Poland",and "Gorki, Poland". The last one is predominent the others only one person per location.And that village is on no map I have. There is another Gorki N of Klodawa at 52?17'N 18?57'E on two ca. 1900 maps at the place where now, 1809 and 1930 is Dlugie. But that village seems to belong to the Przedecz-Parish. Around Babiak there are two villages starting with "Gor": Goraj and Gory. Any help appreciated. Frank Stewner--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: edies_hook at msn.comTo: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:46:41 -0800Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Pronunciation of TSCHERNJACHOWGood Morning! I'm still looking for my elusive paternal grandfather,FRIEDRICH REMPEL/RIMPEL/RIMPLE. New clues (a priceless oral interview on CD with a cousin who has sincepassed away) point to a town near Zhitomir named TSCHERNJACHOW. How would the name Tschernjachow (now known as Czerniachiw, UK) bepronounced/spoken? Cher-nya-chef? SHER-na-koff? Edith Rimple McKelvyedies_hook at msn.com --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: cmduff at redwing.netTo: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgDate: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:14:48 -0600Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in RozyszczeThank you Jerry, this helps a lot. Is this still a village today? Is this close to Anielowka which I didn't see on the map? How far is it from Stieglitz which I _think_ is Pozen? How far from West Prussia where some of the family were born. Jerry Frank wrote:> Carol,>> Boguslawowka in Rozyszcze Parish is located about 10 km NW of Torczyn > or 5 km NNE of Zaturcy. _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008 From ggomes at soundviewnet.com Mon Jan 5 12:31:55 2009 From: ggomes at soundviewnet.com (Gary Gomes) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:31:55 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth@aol.com) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Al, I appreciate your effort. The marriage may have taken place earlier than 1888, but not later. I have pretty solid data that Edmunda Lange was born June 18, 1888 and Edward born July 25, 1889 (family records, obits/graves, passenger lists and Canadian census), but they could have been a year earlier I guess. My grandfather Emil Lange was the youngest of this marriage, born January 19, 1891 in Winnipeg, three months after their arrival from Russian Poland. There may have been earlier children or a period of time between marriage and first birth. I have virtually no information about the immediate family prior to their October 1890 transit to Canada. Gary Message: 2 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:01:14 -0500 From: albertmuth at aol.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <8CB3CD77A70A2E5-16CC-86B at MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have checked my transcribed Rozyszcze marriages 1886-1888 and find no record of a marriage between Christian Lange and Teofila Malachowski Are the birth years of the children "written in stone"?? That is, is there a possibility that the marriage could be a year sooner, or a year later? Al Muth -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Frank To: Gary Gomes ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 5:25 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski Gary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote: >I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother, >Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.). > >Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian >Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in >1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these >dates are after the St Petersburg records. > >They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to >Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph >Pachal. > >Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel >Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their >residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk). > >Any guidance is appreciated. > >Gary Gomes > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Jan 5 14:14:27 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:14:27 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Elizbiecin; Was Re: Boguslawka in Rozyszcze In-Reply-To: <534369690D0E456481014266B2112877@margaret46066b> References: <69fa1e6acd6bf28380f0ee0c8c1926bf@prod.shaw.ca> <7auabm$203dr2@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <49625C28.5050904@redwing.net> <534369690D0E456481014266B2112877@margaret46066b> Message-ID: To all on the mailing list - these maps are all available through links in the maps section of our website, one in the public area and the other in Members Only.? Remember that most of these maps can be copied to your computer by right clicking (PC) on them.? The size will be easier to manipulate there than directly on the website. Margaret - Your villages are very close to Rozyszcze, to the east.? First refer to this map http://www.sggee.org/members/pdf_maps/volhynia/VolD2003.pdf for relative locations. On this modern map http://download.maps.vlasenko.net/smtm100/m-35-039.jpg , Elizbiecin still appears between the vertical lines 82 & 84 and horizontal lines 44 & 46.? Dubiszcze now shows as only one village rather than split between New and Old and is the next one immediately to the west.? Each square on that map is about 2 km. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: marlo Date: Monday, January 5, 2009 2:52 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Boguslawka in Rozyszcze To: Jerry Frank , Carol Duff Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Jerry,? This is a very interesting map but I really like > the previous one > you sent.? I am looking for village of Elizbiecin and it is > on first map. > Just to the north east of Rozyczcze.? I was surprised > because that is first > time I had seen it.? I would like to know what it is today > or does it exist > today?? And second village is Dubiszcze, Nowy or > Stary.? Does it exist and > where?? Is it in Poland or Ukraine? > I found my husband's mother's birth record in St Pete's records > but would > like to know if it still exists and what it is called?? > Thank you for your > terrific help.? If it were not for you dear people my > husband would only > know that his mother was born in Russia of German parents. > Margaret Loroff > marlo50 at bex.net > > From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Jan 5 15:37:04 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:37:04 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Pronunciation of TSCHERNJACHOW In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496299A0.7080103@ish.de> Edith McKelvy schrieb: > Good Morning! I'm still looking for my elusive paternal grandfather, > FRIEDRICH REMPEL/RIMPEL/RIMPLE. > > New clues (a priceless oral interview on CD with a cousin who has since > passed away) point to a town near Zhitomir named TSCHERNJACHOW. > > How would the name Tschernjachow (now known as Czerniachiw, UK) be > pronounced/spoken? Cher-nya-chef? SHER-na-koff? Hello Edith, Ch[y]erny?khov, the 'e' with a soft initial sound, the 'o' resp. 'i' without accentuation (Chernyakhiv is the genitive plural of CHERNYAK, i.e. the CHERNYAKs' property). G?nther From bronklimach at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 16:55:08 2009 From: bronklimach at gmail.com (Bronwyn Klimach) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:55:08 +0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] [Rinas In-Reply-To: <007701c965cd$d1cfd710$985b744c@D9128M51> References: <122320080318.24447.49505899000A701800005F7F22230647029B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net> <007701c965cd$d1cfd710$985b744c@D9128M51> Message-ID: <129d86830901051655v7fe7f85hfa415f2916affcbd@mail.gmail.com> Leslie, Have you even the tiniest hint of where to start looking in this large area of Europe? Have you scoured all available documents post-Europe, and from family, that may give even the tiniest clue of where to begin looking? Kind regards, Bronwyn. On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Leslie wrote: > Looking for Anna Rinas in Poland/Russia , b abt 1836 married Frederich > Zielke. Friederich's brothers, Heinrich and Martin, dates unknown, parents > unknown for both individuals./ Any help is appreciated. > Happy Holidays to all > Leslie > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From albertmuth at aol.com Mon Jan 5 20:10:09 2009 From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:10:09 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fwd: Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth@aol.com) In-Reply-To: <8CB3DC7A36FF589-DC4-11A1@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3DC7A36FF589-DC4-11A1@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3DCBCC73EF13-DC4-12CB@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> I meant this to go to the listserv -----Original Message----- From: albertmuth at aol.com To: ggomes at soundviewnet.com Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:40 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth at aol.com) I am going to hold out hope for you that the marriage will be found in Lublin.? And it just might. I checked 1884-1888 for the marriage, and found nothing. ? I do not yet have a fine-tuned sense of when a big migration from the Lublin/Chelm region over to Rozyszcze/Vladimir Volynsk area occurred, but have learned that several of my grandfather's own first cousins did, around 1888 or 1889, though.? Right now, I am only indexing the post 1885 Rozyszcze marriages.? I will not get my fine tuning sense until I do complete transcriptions of these same marriages that I will use later for entry into the SGGEE Pedigree Database.? Don't anybody look for these families in the SG pedigree database any time soon. ? Returning to your problem, It occurs to me strongly that we may also be dealing with religion here.? Ebenezer, SK at this early date was very Baptist, mostly out of the parish in Zezulin in the Lublin area.? The family of my grandfather's older brother Gottfried Muth was in Ebenezer from 1888, as well as his in-laws the Milbradts. ? If ya'll are Baptists, you've got a different can of worms.? And welcome to my world.? The Lublin team has been very generous with me, sharing little tidbits here and there from the Lublin Lutheran church project, but I suspect that my two biggest prize records are going to be from the Zezulin Baptist church:? my grandfather's 1883 first marriage and his father's murder (sometime before 1888; while carrying rent money, he picked up a hitchhiker, who killed him with an axe and took all the money). Everybody was Lutheran till then, but the conversion was, say 1880, give or take 5 years. ? There are many, many Germans whose last name ends in -ski, and has for generations lost back before the beginning of records for us.? Did Teofila have any known relatives herself in this country (Canada, in her case)?? Does her death certificate name parents? (Saskatchewan holds the distinction in my memory of charging the absolute highest price for a death certificate that I have ever paid in my life). ? And I detect some hesitation in her surname Malachowski, Malaszewski.? There are several Malanowskys on the ship "Polynesia" that my great-grandmother Johanna Abraham Muth came over on, aged 68, arriving New York 14 April 1888.? All these surnames Mala- are derivatives of the adjective MALY = 'small' = 'klein'? I cannot vouch for the ethnicity or religion of the Polynesia Malanowskys, though they were born in Russia. ? Just a few thoughts... ? al -----Original Message----- From: Gary Gomes To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth at aol.com) Al, I appreciate your effort. The marriage may have taken place earlier than 1888, but not later. I have pretty solid data that Edmunda Lange was born June 18, 1888 and Edward born July 25, 1889 (family records, obits/graves, passenger lists and Canadian census), but they could have been a year earlier I guess. My grandfather Emil Lange was the youngest of this marriage, born January 19, 1891 in Winnipeg, three months after their arrival from Russian Poland. There may have been earlier children or a period of time between marriage and first birth. I have virtually no information about the immediate family prior to their October 1890 transit to Canada. Gary Message: 2 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:01:14 -0500 From: albertmuth at aol.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <8CB3CD77A70A2E5-16CC-86B at MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have checked my transcribed Rozyszcze marriages 1886-1888 and find no record of a marriage between Christian Lange and Teofila Malachowski Are the birth years of the children "written in stone"?? That is, is there a possibility that the marriage could be a year sooner, or a year later? Al Muth -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Frank To: Gary Gomes ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 5:25 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski Gary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote: >I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother, >Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.). > >Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian >Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in >1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these >dates are after the St Petersburg records. > >They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to >Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph >Pachal. > >Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel >Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their >residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk). > >Any guidance is appreciated. > >Gary Gomes > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Get a free MP3 every day with the Spinner.com Toolbar. Get it Now. From mail at reiner-kerp.de Tue Jan 6 02:29:26 2009 From: mail at reiner-kerp.de (Reiner Kerp) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:29:26 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names References: Message-ID: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> Dear fellow searchers, has anybody come across the names KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of RODE or ROTH; GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of ERBER; and ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) ? Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, Reiner (Kerp) aus Landsberg am Lech mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de im web: http://reiner-kerp.de From otto at schienke.com Tue Jan 6 06:25:55 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:25:55 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names Message-ID: <055A6653-C17A-406D-BC3A-30A8DFCD07D7@schienke.com> Just out of curiosity. . . Previously I'd researched the surname "Krahn" (my uncle Albert) and find it around the Pomeranian coast. 'Krahn' in low German = 'crane', stork. I've never come across a variation or translation of its spelling. 'Quirin' is a celtic surname - Celtic names in Germany and Poland are oft the base for names of their rivers or associated to water. Also consider Quirin{us} -Latin Quirinalia/Quiriniis . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From gpvjem at sasktel.net Tue Jan 6 06:55:59 2009 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:55:59 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fwd: Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth@aol.com) References: <8CB3DC7A36FF589-DC4-11A1@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3DCBCC73EF13-DC4-12CB@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Regarding Al Muth's mention of the Baptist settlement at Ebenezer Saskatchewan. Although none of the names being discussed in this thread appear, there is a very good website for the Ebenezer, Saskatchewan Baptist Cemetery at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cansacem/ebenezer.html for those that may be interested. Also of probable interest to many, the Saskatchewan Genealogical Society starting in 2009, is making available to paid up members several databases at no charge, among them are. 1. Saskatchewan Residents Index (SRI) - an index of 2.8 million names of former and present residents Sask.from various sources including community history books, census records etc. 2. Burial Index - about 500,000 individuals buried in Sask. John Marsch Swift current, Saskatchewan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: albertmuth at aol.com To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fwd: Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth at aol.com) I meant this to go to the listserv -----Original Message----- From: albertmuth at aol.com To: ggomes at soundviewnet.com Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:40 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth at aol.com) I am going to hold out hope for you that the marriage will be found in Lublin.? And it just might. I checked 1884-1888 for the marriage, and found nothing. ? I do not yet have a fine-tuned sense of when a big migration from the Lublin/Chelm region over to Rozyszcze/Vladimir Volynsk area occurred, but have learned that several of my grandfather's own first cousins did, around 1888 or 1889, though.? Right now, I am only indexing the post 1885 Rozyszcze marriages.? I will not get my fine tuning sense until I do complete transcriptions of these same marriages that I will use later for entry into the SGGEE Pedigree Database.? Don't anybody look for these families in the SG pedigree database any time soon. ? Returning to your problem, It occurs to me strongly that we may also be dealing with religion here.? Ebenezer, SK at this early date was very Baptist, mostly out of the parish in Zezulin in the Lublin area.? The family of my grandfather's older brother Gottfried Muth was in Ebenezer from 1888, as well as his in-laws the Milbradts. ? If ya'll are Baptists, you've got a different can of worms.? And welcome to my world.? The Lublin team has been very generous with me, sharing little tidbits here and there from the Lublin Lutheran church project, but I suspect that my two biggest prize records are going to be from the Zezulin Baptist church:? my grandfather's 1883 first marriage and his father's murder (sometime before 1888; while carrying rent money, he picked up a hitchhiker, who killed him with an axe and took all the money). Everybody was Lutheran till then, but the conversion was, say 1880, give or take 5 years. ? There are many, many Germans whose last name ends in -ski, and has for generations lost back before the beginning of records for us.? Did Teofila have any known relatives herself in this country (Canada, in her case)?? Does her death certificate name parents? (Saskatchewan holds the distinction in my memory of charging the absolute highest price for a death certificate that I have ever paid in my life). ? And I detect some hesitation in her surname Malachowski, Malaszewski.? There are several Malanowskys on the ship "Polynesia" that my great-grandmother Johanna Abraham Muth came over on, aged 68, arriving New York 14 April 1888.? All these surnames Mala- are derivatives of the adjective MALY = 'small' = 'klein'? I cannot vouch for the ethnicity or religion of the Polynesia Malanowskys, though they were born in Russia. ? Just a few thoughts... ? al -----Original Message----- From: Gary Gomes To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski (albertmuth at aol.com) Al, I appreciate your effort. The marriage may have taken place earlier than 1888, but not later. I have pretty solid data that Edmunda Lange was born June 18, 1888 and Edward born July 25, 1889 (family records, obits/graves, passenger lists and Canadian census), but they could have been a year earlier I guess. My grandfather Emil Lange was the youngest of this marriage, born January 19, 1891 in Winnipeg, three months after their arrival from Russian Poland. There may have been earlier children or a period of time between marriage and first birth. I have virtually no information about the immediate family prior to their October 1890 transit to Canada. Gary Message: 2 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:01:14 -0500 From: albertmuth at aol.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <8CB3CD77A70A2E5-16CC-86B at MBLK-M05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have checked my transcribed Rozyszcze marriages 1886-1888 and find no record of a marriage between Christian Lange and Teofila Malachowski Are the birth years of the children "written in stone"?? That is, is there a possibility that the marriage could be a year sooner, or a year later? Al Muth -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Frank To: Gary Gomes ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 5:25 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Teofila Malachowski Gary, Scheple (Szepec) and Ludwischen, though near Lutsk, were in Rozyszcze Parish. Original parish records are not yet extracted but have been microfilmed. See http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia for full list of available records. Unlike the St. Pete records, a marriage record there will most probably provide you with a specific place of birth for her. If not, check for a Confirmation record c.1881 that also often provides a place of birth. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 12:39 PM 04/01/2009, Gary Gomes wrote: >I am seeking help to find information on the family of my great grandmother, >Teofila Malachowski (or Malashevski, etc.). > >Teofila was born October 7, 1867 in Russian Poland. She married Christian >Lange about 1887 and bore a son Edmund in 1888 and a daughter Edmunda in >1889 - I believe in the general Lutsk - Lublin area. Unfortunately these >dates are after the St Petersburg records. > >They migrated to Canada in October 1890; first to Winnipeg and then to >Ebenezer, SK. Christian died before 1896 and Teofila remarried Rudolph >Pachal. > >Intermarried family includes Schindler, Gurel and Pries. The Daniel >Schindlers, who migrated with them to Canada (same ship),show their >residence at time of emigration as Scheple or Ludswischkin (outside Lutsk). > >Any guidance is appreciated. > >Gary Gomes > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Get a free MP3 every day with the Spinner.com Toolbar. Get it Now. _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From mail at reiner-kerp.de Tue Jan 6 09:01:25 2009 From: mail at reiner-kerp.de (Reiner Kerp) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 18:01:25 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names References: <055A6653-C17A-406D-BC3A-30A8DFCD07D7@schienke.com> Message-ID: Dear Otto, beware of Reiner - he lies! > 'Krahn' in low German = 'crane', stork. > I've never come across a variation or translation of its spelling. "crane" - in my dictionary (phonetically: krein) Kranich, Storch. A "Kran" that lifts loads in the harbour looks like a crane. "stork" - in my dictionary (phonetically: sto:k) Storch. But in low-german phonetically very similar to stark (strong). So it?s very hard to decide wether STOREK came from Storch or stark (strong). To stay on the safe side consider both variants. The tendency to write an A instead of an E is as old as the Roman Empire. As the priests and monks studied Latin they wrote their books respectivly. In the town were I was born, the area from where the first "Holl?nder" came to Poland, I grew up with this: (Bergisch) Gladbach - auf Platt: Jle(?)bbisch. KRA(H)N instead of KREN(S) or GREN(S) or KREIN or GREIN you will find in most every church-book around Bergisch Gladbach. With regards and the best wishes for the New Year, Reiner (Kerp) Landsberg am Lech, Bavaria, Germany. mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de web: http://reiner-kerp.de From cmduff at redwing.net Tue Jan 6 10:15:25 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:15:25 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories Message-ID: <49639FBD.7050606@redwing.net> I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot project. Today I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I have also found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I just wanted to share this with you. From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 10:26:00 2009 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:26:00 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories References: <49639FBD.7050606@redwing.net> Message-ID: <017501c9702c$415ebed0$0401010a@Eduardo> When those records of Rozyszcze will be available on the website? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Duff" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:15 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories >I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot project. Today > I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I have also > found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I just > wanted to share this with you. > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From otto at schienke.com Tue Jan 6 11:06:37 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:06:37 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names Message-ID: To clarify Reiner's statement: "beware of Reiner - he lies!" Reiner has never lied according to my knowledge. The definition for 'lie' is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive" No, never to my knowledge. A discovery process. . . Yes. A tendency to complexify. . . Yes. We could go into the Dutch and East Frisian, even the Old Prussian meanings of 'Krahn' and still be left holding 'the bird'. Then into varying German/Norse dialects extending back to Sanskrit and still be left holding 'the bird'. I am certain Reiner and I would enjoy the mental stimulation as perhaps would others. The varying Platt dialects alone would be a challenge. The foremost problem is that most participants here speak one language, English. So in order not to confuse them I offer the following; These Common American Dictionary definitions for 'Krahn' are accurate seeing we are discussing the surname 'Krahn', and not the bird pecking at our heels. Dictionaries alone can be confusing?it is always on it author's shoulders to clarify expressed meanings. -crane 1. any large wading bird of the family Gruidae, characterized by long legs, bill, and neck and an elevated hind toe. (I have relatives with the long legs, noses, and necks, yet I never gave though to checking for the elevated hind toe. . .) -Krahn German: nickname for a slim or long-legged person, from Middle Low German krane ?crane?. Compare Kranich. There may be variations of the surname?I've found "Kran' with a dropped 'h' but that is all. As I've stated before, our past histories are unique. Even I was in error when I stated my uncle 'Albert Krahn'. Albert was my first cousin, his father, Julius, was my uncle. So much for old memory banks. ======= . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From cmduff at redwing.net Tue Jan 6 11:18:25 2009 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:18:25 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901061024u1b355d69y38c5b20a14abd89e@mail.gmail.com> References: <49639FBD.7050606@redwing.net> <77f14bdd0901061024u1b355d69y38c5b20a14abd89e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4963AE81.5010800@redwing.net> Start at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;c=1469151;t=browsable;w=0 I go to Volyn, then to Lutsk, then to Rozhishche, and now I am on 1880 records, frame 128. It takes forever, but I intend to go through all of the records. Earlier, I found the maiden name of my Great grandfather. I know that Jerry or Bronwyn can tell you better and perhaps will. Carol Jim Stange wrote: > Hello Carol, > > I am new to SGGEE this year. Can you explain the "pilot project" to > me breifely? I am interested as I have been trying to research many > of the LDS films on my ancestors from Poland but many are not filmed.... > > Thanks, > Jim > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Carol Duff > wrote: > > I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot project. > Today > I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I > have also > found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I just > wanted to share this with you. > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From krause.annegret at t-online.de Tue Jan 6 11:27:44 2009 From: krause.annegret at t-online.de (Annegret Krause) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:44 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names In-Reply-To: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> Message-ID: Hello, in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. "Zielony" is the Polish word for the colour "green". Regards, Annegret ________________________________________ Annegret Krause Am Teeberg 16 29581 Bohlsen Tel. 05808-671 -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Reiner Kerp Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names Dear fellow searchers, has anybody come across the names KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of RODE or ROTH; GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of ERBER; and ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) ? Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, Reiner (Kerp) aus Landsberg am Lech mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de im web: http://reiner-kerp.de _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From barrett-bettcher at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 11:29:17 2009 From: barrett-bettcher at hotmail.com (Andrew Barrett-Bettcher) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:29:17 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names In-Reply-To: References: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> Message-ID: Any ideas about Boschatzke? It's from around Warsaw and she married a German and moved to Bessarabia. It sounds like Boszacki, but could that be a Polonization of something else? > From: krause.annegret at t-online.de> To: mail at reiner-kerp.de; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:44 +0100> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names> > Hello,> > in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. "Zielony" is> the Polish word for the colour "green".> > Regards, Annegret> > ________________________________________> Annegret Krause> Am Teeberg 16> 29581 Bohlsen> Tel. 05808-671> > > -----Original Message-----> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Reiner> Kerp> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names> > Dear fellow searchers,> > has anybody come across the names> > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of > RODE or ROTH;> > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER;> > and> > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) > ?> > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr,> > Reiner (Kerp)> > aus Landsberg am Lech> > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de> > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv> > > > _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 From gary at warnerengineering.com Tue Jan 6 11:37:50 2009 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:37:50 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names In-Reply-To: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> References: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> Message-ID: <4963B30E.3050605@warnerengineering.com> Reiner, I do not speak German, so I will leave the translations of the following into German to you. My Polish friend thinks that: if Kopra is a Polish word, and not a Latin one, then it is a conjugation of koper, which means the dill spice. The Polish word for copper has the root miedz with a slash over the z Groch is the peapod Ziel has to do with the color green Mala means small. She thought that the word malach might have a different meaning, but could not come up with it. Gary Warner Reiner Kerp wrote: > Dear fellow searchers, > > has anybody come across the names > > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of > RODE or ROTH; > > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER; > > and > > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) > ? > > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, > > Reiner (Kerp) > > aus Landsberg am Lech > > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de > > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From gswilson19 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 12:23:52 2009 From: gswilson19 at aol.com (gswilson19@aol.com) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories Message-ID: <8CB3E53D36B1B36-1744-123@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> I have been able to find some of my ancestors in the films I rented through the FHC for Przedecz.? I "feel" as though I should be checking out these online resources available through the Family Search site.? However, I am confused as to which area to look under, or if my areas of interest are even included.? Maybe someone more knowledgeable can point me in the right direction.?? Some other areas my ancestors are from: Mieczyslawow, Jozefowo, Babiak, Poland Szczerkowo, Wlockawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland Lanieta, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland Siarczyce, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland Thank you, Gail From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Tue Jan 6 12:44:36 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:44:36 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories In-Reply-To: <8CB3E53D36B1B36-1744-123@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3E53D36B1B36-1744-123@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: The online records to date are only for parts of what was western Russia between 1833 and 1885 including Volhynia.? They do not include any parts of Russian Poland which is applicable to the places you listed. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: gswilson19 at aol.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > I have been able to find some of my ancestors in the films I > rented through the FHC for Przedecz.? I "feel" as though I > should be checking out these online resources available through > the Family Search site.? However, I am confused as to which area > to look under, or if my areas of interest are even included.? > Maybe someone more knowledgeable can point me in the right > direction.?? Some other areas my ancestors are from: > > Mieczyslawow, > Jozefowo, Babiak, Poland > Szczerkowo, Wlockawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > Lanieta, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > Siarczyce, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > > Thank you, > > Gail > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From gswilson19 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 12:48:05 2009 From: gswilson19 at aol.com (gswilson19@aol.com) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:48:05 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories In-Reply-To: References: <8CB3E53D36B1B36-1744-123@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E57354A23D8-1744-2E6@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> Thank you, Jerry. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Frank To: gswilson19 at aol.com Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:44 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories The online records to date are only for parts of what was western Russia between 1833 and 1885 including Volhynia.? They do not include any parts of Russian Poland which is applicable to the places you listed. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: gswilson19 at aol.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > I have been able to find some of my ancestors in the films I > rented through the FHC for Przedecz.? I "feel" as though I > should be checking out these online resources available through > the Family Search site.? However, I am confused as to which area > to look under, or if my areas of interest are even included.? > Maybe someone more knowledgeable can point me in the right > direction.?? Some other areas my ancestors are from: > > Mieczyslawow, > Jozefowo, Babiak, Poland > Szczerkowo, Wlockawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > Lanieta, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > Siarczyce, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > > Thank you, > > Gail > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From ra_stein at telus.net Tue Jan 6 13:03:47 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:03:47 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories In-Reply-To: <8CB3E53D36B1B36-1744-123@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3E53D36B1B36-1744-123@FWM-D38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9AEC2A28222F408EB5BC99FA8E9FBDD0@RichardPC> Gail, These villages are in the general area of Wloclawek, Kowal, Chodecz, Izbica, and Przedecz. Have you checked some of the parishes other than Prezedecz? However, many records from these parishes have been extracted and are in the Master Pedigree Database. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Victories > > I have been able to find some of my ancestors in the films I rented > through the FHC for Przedecz.? I "feel" as though I should be checking out > these online resources available through the Family Search site.? However, > I am confused as to which area to look under, or if my areas of interest > are even included.? Maybe someone more knowledgeable can point me in the > right direction.?? Some other areas my ancestors are from: > > Mieczyslawow, > Jozefowo, Babiak, Poland > Szczerkowo, Wlockawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > Lanieta, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > Siarczyce, Wloclawek, Bydgoszcz, Poland > > Thank you, > > Gail > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From ggomes at soundviewnet.com Tue Jan 6 13:05:04 2009 From: ggomes at soundviewnet.com (Gary Gomes) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:05:04 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am trying to track my Malachowski relatives with little immediate success. Do you have some reason to believe that MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S)? Gary Message: 5 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:44 +0100 From: "Annegret Krause" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names To: "'Reiner Kerp'" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. "Zielony" is the Polish word for the colour "green". Regards, Annegret ________________________________________ Annegret Krause Am Teeberg 16 29581 Bohlsen Tel. 05808-671 -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Reiner Kerp Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names Dear fellow searchers, has anybody come across the names KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of RODE or ROTH; GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of ERBER; and ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) ? Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, Reiner (Kerp) aus Landsberg am Lech mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de im web: http://reiner-kerp.de _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ------------------------------ From maurmike1 at verizon.net Tue Jan 6 13:25:12 2009 From: maurmike1 at verizon.net (MIKE MCHENRY) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:25:12 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names In-Reply-To: <4963B30E.3050605@warnerengineering.com> References: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> <4963B30E.3050605@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <023501c97045$43330040$c99900c0$@net> MALACHITE is a green copper containing mineral. It has been used since antiquity. The word's root is Greek. MIKE -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Gary Warner Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:38 PM To: Reiner Kerp Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names Reiner, I do not speak German, so I will leave the translations of the following into German to you. My Polish friend thinks that: if Kopra is a Polish word, and not a Latin one, then it is a conjugation of koper, which means the dill spice. The Polish word for copper has the root miedz with a slash over the z Groch is the peapod Ziel has to do with the color green Mala means small. She thought that the word malach might have a different meaning, but could not come up with it. Gary Warner Reiner Kerp wrote: > Dear fellow searchers, > > has anybody come across the names > > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of > RODE or ROTH; > > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER; > > and > > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) > ? > > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, > > Reiner (Kerp) > > aus Landsberg am Lech > > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de > > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From mail at reiner-kerp.de Tue Jan 6 14:35:34 2009 From: mail at reiner-kerp.de (Reiner Kerp) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:35:34 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names References: <8BB329C544D4442BADB51EA390A67FD1@Kerp> <4963B30E.3050605@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: Dear Gary, thank you very much for trying to help me. Please pass my thanks also to your Polish friend. > I do not speak German, so I will leave the translations of the > following into German to you. ... A minor problem ;-) Having had the opportunity to download two old polish dictionaries from: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Linde "Slownik Jezyka Polskiego" Author: Samuel Bogumil Linde of 1807 and http://ebuw.uw.edu.pl/dlibra "Slownik Jezyka Polskiego" Author: Jan Karlowicza und Adam Krynskiego of 1898, I took the chance to think over some yet unsolved problems, that led me to ask others for their opinion. My thougts were not ment as to announce new law. > My Polish friend thinks that:... > if Kopra is a Polish word, and not a Latin one, then it is a > conjugation of koper, which means the dill spice. The word I found was "kopr" - explained as copper. > The Polish word for copper has the root miedz with a slash over > the z This is the same my modern dictionary tells me. > Groch is the peapod pea is "Erbse" in German. A former colleague?s name was ERBER. A Heinrich ERBE together with 7 other individuals emigrated around 1802 from Isenburg to Neu-Sulzfeld, Nowosolna, Lazn?w, Warschau > Ziel has to do with the color green As Annegret Krause wrote: > in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. > "Zielony" is the Polish word for the colour "green". > Mala means small. She thought that the word malach might have > a different meaning, but could not come up with it. I thought of "malachit-owy" - malachite-green. Malachite, - a green mineral/stone used for decoration or carving gems. Best wishes, Reiner (Kerp) mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de web: http://reiner-kerp.de From otto at schienke.com Tue Jan 6 16:32:50 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:32:50 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Malachowski Message-ID: Gary Comes, The surname, Malachowski, is a prominent Polish surname. (diacritical slash on the l) Count Malachowski was a Polish noble in Central Poland (Konskie-Duchy of Warsaw) -This 'may' serve as an indicator as to where to begin your search- There existed also a St. Malachowski. (Warsaw) Also a Malachowski museum. * "Malach" is a Hebrew word meaning 'angel' or 'messenger'. Stand-a-lone, without the 'ow' and 'ski' suffixes, it could substitute for the German word, 'Engel'. (caution) The surname "Malachowski" is spelled two ways depending of the user of it: 1. Malach'ow'ski without the diacritical horizontal slash on the 'l' * and 2. Malach'ow'ski, with the diacritical horizontal slash on the 'l'. Pronounced Mawach'ow'ski. -Mawach and Malach could have two different distinct meanings. *? Here is where a speaker of the Polish language can discriminate between the two ways of sounding out the name in giving answer to, "Do they mean the same thing?" Can they properly be sounded out only one way, that is, spelling it with the diacritical mark? . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From roseingram at shaw.ca Tue Jan 6 17:12:22 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:12:22 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names References: Message-ID: <012201c97064$fe6f0920$6601a8c0@duocore> I have found some birth records in my family written Zielinski vel Gruening. Rose Ingram From: Annegret Krause Hello, in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. "Zielony" is the Polish word for the colour "green". Regards, Annegret ________________________________________ Annegret Krause Am Teeberg 16 29581 Bohlsen Tel. 05808-671 -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Reiner Kerp Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names Dear fellow searchers, has anybody come across the names KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation of RODE or ROTH; GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of ERBER; and ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or GREN(S) or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as root) ? Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, Reiner (Kerp) aus Landsberg am Lech mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de im web: http://reiner-kerp.de From jjstange at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 21:42:57 2009 From: jjstange at gmail.com (Jim Stange) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:42:57 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Message-ID: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of the old maps I have. Thanks for any help you can provide. From roseingram at shaw.ca Tue Jan 6 22:00:23 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:00:23 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof References: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <042c01c9708d$3af6c400$6601a8c0@duocore> Jim, On what documentation did you find these places written? What time period? Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Stange To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of the old maps I have. Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From jjstange at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 22:05:03 2009 From: jjstange at gmail.com (Jim Stange) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:05:03 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <042c01c9708d$3af6c400$6601a8c0@duocore> References: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> <042c01c9708d$3af6c400$6601a8c0@duocore> Message-ID: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. Ploehnen"?? Thanks! On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > Jim, > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > period? > > Rose Ingram > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jim Stange > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > the old maps I have. > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From Spaghettitree at aol.com Wed Jan 7 04:51:44 2009 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:51:44 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Message-ID: There are two Karolinehofs, one in Pommern, one in Poznan. The one in Poznan is in Kreis Schubin (Polish Szubin) has the Polish name Studwia. The Atlantic Bridge to Germany, v. VIII Maureen ************** New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Wed Jan 7 05:28:35 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:28:35 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> References: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003201c970cb$d7d014a0$87703de0$@net> -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:43 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of the old maps I have. Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ JewishGen ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp , using exact spelling, finds only one Karolinenhof, and it is in Austria. Probably not what you are after. If we use a search using the Sounds Like method, we get the following: Cherlenkovo populated place 55?57' N 35?29' E E M U G Russia 84.0 miles W of Moskva 55?45' N 37?37' E Cherlinkiv populated place 49?10' N 28?23' E E M U G Ukraine 129.2 miles SW of Kyyiv 50?26' N 30?31' E Crljen?evo Brdo hill 44?25' N 15?54' E E M U G Croatia 95.7 miles S of Zagreb 45?48' N 16?0' E Gora Aylyanchbashi mountain 43?29' N 42?41' E E M U G Russia 875.9 miles SSE of Moskva 55?45' N 37?37' E Kierlingbach stream 48?19' N 16?19' E E M U G Austria 8.4 miles NNW of Wien 48?12' N 16?22' E Korolenkovka populated place 49?32' N 35?07' E E M U G Ukraine 213.4 miles ESE of Kyyiv 50?26' N 30?31' E Korolenkovo populated place 54?25' N 21?36' E E M U G Russia 638.0 miles W of Moskva 55?45' N 37?37' E Last two may be possibilities. If you use the site, you can get a map showing the locations. Good luck. Joe in Texas From otto at schienke.com Wed Jan 7 06:05:01 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:05:01 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] *Kreis Ploehnen* Message-ID: <37AE9758-534D-4590-AD94-488027BBE785@schienke.com> Just a hunch- Wasn't 'Ploehnen' the German name for Plonsk just NW of Warsaw? . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Jan 7 06:05:46 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:05:46 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com > References: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> <042c01c9708d$3af6c400$6601a8c0@duocore> <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7au4gf$1epv82@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Ploehen is the WW II Germanic name for Plonsk which is approximately 60 km NW of Warsaw. This region is formerly in Russian Poland, not Prussia. "Kr." = Kries so the villages are in the district of Plonsk. You village names are complicated by the conversion to German pronunciations / spellings. Karolinenhof is almost certainly Karolinow or Karolinowka or Karolinowo. There is a Karolinowo about 17 km NE of Plonsk known to have had some German residents. I haven't been able to come up with a good match for Zetzemin in near vicinity of Plonsk. There is sounds-like Secymin on the south side of the Wisla River about 40 km WNW of Warsaw but I don't know the boundaries for Kries Ploehnen so cannot say with confidence that this is the correct place. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 11:05 PM 06/01/2009, Jim Stange wrote: >The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame >would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. >Ploehnen"?? > >Thanks! > >On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > period? > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jim Stange > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > > the old maps I have. > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. From textor_jan at hotmail.com Wed Jan 7 06:39:02 2009 From: textor_jan at hotmail.com (Jan Textor) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:39:02 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> References: <77f14bdd0901062142l12445d4dna364d8eeb1348557@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Jim, Ploehnen is the German name of the Polish town of Plonsk (P?o?sk) which is located at the coordinates 52.38'N 20.23'E, about 60 km northwest of Warsaw. *Kreis Ploehnen (Pl?hnen) or Plonsk* only existed officially from Oct. 1939 until Jan. 1945 when the area was annexed by the Germans during WWII. I don't know if there was a village called *Karolinenhof* nearby. Perhaps it was just a manor or a farm, and not a village? However, there are two villages named Karolinowo not far from Plonsk. Could be one of them was called *Karolinenhof* at that time. Hope this helps. Jan Textor, Denmark > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:42:57 -0500 > From: jjstange at gmail.com > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > the old maps I have. > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > From ejadam at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 07:32:24 2009 From: ejadam at yahoo.com (E. Adam) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:32:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia Message-ID: <537161.69400.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello: I wonder if anyone has some information regarding the history of German settlement in and around the province of Orel in Russia? The war records on Odessa list a great number of people citing "Orel". And some of the birth dates indicate several generations born in that region. My family story is that my great-grandfather and others moved from Volhynia to the area in the early 20th century and founded a German village there called Kromolin (and variations thereof). Obviously there were previous German settlements in the area, perhaps of long standing. Which might provide some context for why my ancestors went in that direction. If anyone can share some history, it would be appreciated. My family names in that area are ADAM, DAUSE and WUTZKE, among others. I have found 28 families that appear to be from Kromolin in the war records. And some of them appear together in the same area in Volhynia in earlier generations. Edie Adam Virginia, USA From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Jan 7 07:51:31 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:51:31 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia In-Reply-To: <537161.69400.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <537161.69400.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This part of Russia is a bit of a black hole, genealogically speaking.? I have seen a few requests over the years for help with this region.? In fact, just today, on one of the Ancestry Bulletin Boards there was a request for Hildebrand and Heideberg from Brjansk which is a short distance west of Orel.? Still others I have seen are from not far SW of Orel just inside Ukraine.? It would be nice to hear from anyone who knows a bit about the German settlements in this region or to find someone interested enough in doing more digging for info there. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Adam" Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 8:35 am Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia To: SGGEE > Hello: I wonder if anyone has some information regarding the > history of German settlement in and around the province of Orel > in Russia? > > The war records on Odessa list a great number of people citing > "Orel". And some of the birth dates indicate several generations > born in that region. My family story is that my great- > grandfather and others moved from Volhynia to the area in the > early 20th century and founded a German village there called > Kromolin (and variations thereof). > > Obviously there were previous German settlements in the area, > perhaps of long standing. Which might provide some context for > why my ancestors went in that direction. If anyone can share > some history, it would be appreciated. > > My family names in that area are ADAM, DAUSE and WUTZKE, among > others. I have found 28 families that appear to be from Kromolin > in the war records. And some of them appear together in the same > area in Volhynia in earlier generations. > > Edie Adam > Virginia, USA > > > ????? > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From krause.annegret at t-online.de Wed Jan 7 09:36:06 2009 From: krause.annegret at t-online.de (Annegret Krause) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:36:06 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 Secymin belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. Annegret ________________________________________ Annegret Krause Am Teeberg 16 29581 Bohlsen Tel. 05808-671 -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM To: Rose Ingram Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. Ploehnen"?? Thanks! On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > Jim, > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > period? > > Rose Ingram > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jim Stange > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > the old maps I have. > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From mag_ton at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 10:05:45 2009 From: mag_ton at yahoo.com (mag_ton) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:05:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... Message-ID: <34656.3643.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being polonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records .? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research . Luckily , many of the records are indexed ! ??? MAGDA --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) ???8. Malachowski (Otto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 From: gswilson19 at aol.com ******************************************** From mag_ton at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 10:24:18 2009 From: mag_ton at yahoo.com (mag_ton@yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:24:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... Message-ID: <477895.74706.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being polonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records .? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research aid. ??? MAGDA? ( Plock , Chodecz , Zambrow ....) --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) ???8. Malachowski (Otto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 From: gswilson19 at aol.com ******************************************** From jjstange at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 10:31:11 2009 From: jjstange at gmail.com (Jim Stange) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:31:11 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: References: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > period? > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jim Stange > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > > the old maps I have. > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From dr.stewner at t-online.de Wed Jan 7 11:01:18 2009 From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:18 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Landkreis Ploehnen Message-ID: <135AB04570EB4EF3A8D9DBDCCB608393@Acer> There is a German link to that in Wikipedia: one has to look on the German Wikipedia under http://de.wikipedia.org/ and search vor "Landkreis Ploehnen" and go for the first result. You will realise that that Landkreis was named for Plonsk after the "Polenfeldzug" late 1939 and existed only until the beginning of 1945. Otto is right again! It's like Litzmannstadt for Lodz. Concerning Karolinenhof: there are 20 locations mentionned by Kartenmeister: the link is http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/databaseuwe.asp Frank From HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com Wed Jan 7 11:13:45 2009 From: HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com (HeinrichRichter1@aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:13:45 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site Message-ID: Hello: I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's birth record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter and according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in Tumaschew, and that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the possible parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year ranges before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this procedure. Thank you, Heinrich Richter **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From maurmike1 at verizon.net Wed Jan 7 11:50:18 2009 From: maurmike1 at verizon.net (MIKE MCHENRY) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:50:18 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> References: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02cd01c97101$2b330640$819912c0$@net> There is a Karolin?w in Secymin. In Mapwig map P39_S31_ Modlin its toward the North western end of the map. It's south of the Wisla/Vistula and just south of the forest/park MIKE -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:31 PM To: Annegret Krause Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Importance: High Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > period? > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jim Stange > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > > the old maps I have. > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ra_stein at telus.net Wed Jan 7 11:52:49 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:52:49 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2DE69E437E7B441FB3674795D21CA8D1@RichardPC> Heinrich, Gustav Richter was born in 1872 but baptised in 1874. Go to the Zhitomir parish baptism records for 1874, it is Reg. #788 on page 550. There are many similar cases where the year of birth and the year of baptism are not the same. One way of finding such cases is to look up the name first in the St. Petersburg index to find the film number. Then go to the film list on http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodoliato ascertain the year. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:13 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site > > Hello: > I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's birth > record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter > and > according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in > Tumaschew, and > that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the > possible > parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year > ranges > before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. > I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this > procedure. > > Thank you, > Heinrich Richter > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From ra_stein at telus.net Wed Jan 7 12:00:01 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:00:01 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: LDS lab site Message-ID: Sorry. In my first post, the "to" was appended to the url. Use the url in this message. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Stein" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site > > Heinrich, > > Gustav Richter was born in 1872 but baptised in 1874. Go to the Zhitomir > parish baptism records for 1874, it is Reg. #788 on page 550. > > There are many similar cases where the year of birth and the year of > baptism > are not the same. One way of finding such cases is to look up the name > first in the St. Petersburg index to find the film number. Then go to > the > film list on > http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia to > ascertain the year. > > Dick Stein > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:13 PM > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site > > >> >> Hello: >> I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's >> birth >> record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter >> and >> according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in >> Tumaschew, and >> that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the >> possible >> parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year >> ranges >> before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. >> I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this >> procedure. >> >> Thank you, >> Heinrich Richter >> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making >> headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From krause.annegret at t-online.de Wed Jan 7 12:13:39 2009 From: krause.annegret at t-online.de (Annegret Krause) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:13:39 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There is a Karolin?w south of Secymin. Today there is the Kampinoski National Park and the village doesn?t exist any more. Look at Jutta Dennerlein?s website. There are some photos of the old cemetery. You can also find some photos of the Secymin cemetery. http://www.upstreamvistula.org/Cemeteries/Cemeteries_List.php?n_searchstring = &i_searchstring=&sortselect= Annegret ________________________________________ Annegret Krause Am Teeberg 16 29581 Bohlsen Tel. 05808-671 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Stange [mailto:jjstange at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:31 PM To: Annegret Krause Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause wrote: Hi Jim, I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 Secymin belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. Annegret ________________________________________ Annegret Krause Am Teeberg 16 29581 Bohlsen Tel. 05808-671 -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM To: Rose Ingram Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. Ploehnen"?? Thanks! On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > Jim, > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > period? > > Rose Ingram > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jim Stange > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > the old maps I have. > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From roseingram at shaw.ca Wed Jan 7 12:16:31 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:16:31 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site References: <2DE69E437E7B441FB3674795D21CA8D1@RichardPC> Message-ID: <00c201c97104$d48b5a00$6601a8c0@duocore> Heinrich, He is on page 86 of 101 in year 1874 as Dick cites. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Stein To: HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site Heinrich, Gustav Richter was born in 1872 but baptised in 1874. Go to the Zhitomir parish baptism records for 1874, it is Reg. #788 on page 550. There are many similar cases where the year of birth and the year of baptism are not the same. One way of finding such cases is to look up the name first in the St. Petersburg index to find the film number. Then go to the film list on http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodoliato ascertain the year. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:13 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site > > Hello: > I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's birth > record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter > and > according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in > Tumaschew, and > that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the > possible > parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year > ranges > before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. > I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this > procedure. > > Thank you, > Heinrich Richter > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Jan 7 12:18:30 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:18:30 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Landkreis Ploehnen In-Reply-To: <135AB04570EB4EF3A8D9DBDCCB608393@Acer> References: <135AB04570EB4EF3A8D9DBDCCB608393@Acer> Message-ID: It is important to not use Kartenmeister to find Karolinenhof in Kries Ploehnen.? Kartenmeister only covers Prussia whereas Kries Ploehnen was in Russian Poland. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 12:04 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Landkreis Ploehnen To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > There is a German link to that in Wikipedia: one has to look on > the German Wikipedia under http://de.wikipedia.org/ > and search vor "Landkreis Ploehnen" and go for the first result. > You will realise that that Landkreis was named for Plonsk after > the "Polenfeldzug" late 1939 and existed only until the > beginning of 1945. Otto is right again! It's like Litzmannstadt > for Lodz. > > Concerning Karolinenhof: there are 20 locations mentionned by > Kartenmeister: > the link is http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/databaseuwe.asp > > Frank > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From ed.scheibler at shaw.ca Wed Jan 7 07:28:17 2009 From: ed.scheibler at shaw.ca (e s) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:28:17 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Happy New year. I have been out of touch and likely missed renewal of membership. I am interested in Rozyszcze records; have they been updated and how do I access them? ----- Original Message ----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 10 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ?? 1. victories (Carol Duff) > ?? 2. Re: victories (Eduardo Kommers) > ?? 3. Re: Polonized German Names (Otto) > ?? 4. Re: victories (Carol Duff) > ?? 5. Re: Polonized German Names (Annegret Krause) > ?? 6. Re: Polonized German Names (Andrew Barrett-Bettcher) > ?? 7. Re: Polonized German Names (Gary Warner) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:15:25 -0600 > From: Carol Duff > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > To: bronklimach at gmail.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <49639FBD.7050606 at redwing.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot > project. Today > I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I > have also > found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I > just > wanted to share this with you. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:26:00 -0200 > From: "Eduardo Kommers" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > To: > Message-ID: <017501c9702c$415ebed0$0401010a at Eduardo> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > When those records of Rozyszcze will be available on the website? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carol Duff" > To: ; volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:15 PM > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > > > >I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot > project. Today > > I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I > have also > > found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I > just > > wanted to share this with you. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:06:37 -0500 > From: Otto > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: GPV List > Cc: Reiner Kerp > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > To clarify Reiner's statement: "beware of Reiner - he lies!" > > Reiner has never lied according to my knowledge. > The definition for 'lie' is "a false statement made with > deliberate? > intent to deceive" > No, never to my knowledge. > > A discovery process. . . Yes. > A tendency to complexify. . . Yes. > We could go into the Dutch and East Frisian, even the Old > Prussian? > meanings of 'Krahn' and still be left holding 'the bird'. Then > into? > varying German/Norse dialects extending back to Sanskrit and > still be? > left holding 'the bird'. I am certain Reiner and I would enjoy > the? > mental stimulation as perhaps would others. The varying Platt > dialects? > alone would be a challenge. > > The foremost problem is that most participants here speak > one? > language, English. So in order not to confuse them I offer > the? > following; > These Common American Dictionary definitions for 'Krahn' are > accurate? > seeing we are discussing the surname 'Krahn', and not the bird > pecking? > at our heels.? Dictionaries alone can be confusing?it is > always on it? > author's shoulders to clarify expressed meanings. > > -crane > 1. any large wading bird of the family Gruidae, characterized by > long? > legs, bill, and neck and an elevated hind toe. > (I have relatives with the long legs, noses, and necks, yet I > never? > gave though to checking for the elevated hind toe. . .) > -Krahn > German: nickname for a slim or long-legged person, from Middle > Low? > German krane ?crane?. Compare Kranich. > > There may be variations of the surname?I've found "Kran' with > a? > dropped 'h' but that is all. > > As I've stated before, our past histories are unique. > > Even I was in error when I stated my uncle 'Albert Krahn'. > Albert was? > my first cousin, his father, Julius, was my uncle. So much for > old? > memory banks. > ======= > . . .?? Otto > ????????? " The Zen > moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- > ?????????????? ________________________________ > ???????????????? "The future. . . . always catches up." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:18:25 -0600 > From: Carol Duff > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > To: Jim Stange , > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <4963AE81.5010800 at redwing.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Start at > http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;c=1469151;t=browsable;w=0???????????? > I go to Volyn, then to Lutsk, then to Rozhishche, and now I am > on 1880 > records, frame 128.? It takes forever, but I intend to go > through all of > the records. Earlier, I found the maiden name of my Great > grandfather. I > know that Jerry or Bronwyn can tell you better and perhaps will. Carol > > Jim Stange wrote: > > Hello Carol, > >? > > I am new to SGGEE this year.? Can you explain the "pilot > project" to > > me breifely?? I am interested as I have been trying to > research many > > of the LDS films on my ancestors from Poland but many are not > filmed....>? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Carol Duff > > > wrote: > > > >???? I am going through all the Rozyszcze > records on the pilot project. > >???? Today > >???? I found my great grandparents marriage > on frame 123 of 1880. I > >???? have also > >???? found other births of their siblings. > I am so very pleased...I just > >???? wanted to share this with you. > > > >???? > _______________________________________________>???? Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > >???? Society for German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe > >???? http://www.sggee.org > >???? Mailing list > info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:44 +0100 > From: "Annegret Krause" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: "'Reiner Kerp'" , > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. > "Zielony" is > the Polish word for the colour "green". > > Regards, Annegret > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf > Of Reiner > Kerp > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > > Dear fellow searchers, > > has anybody come across the names > > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation > of > RODE or ROTH; > > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER; > > and > > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or > GREN(S) > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as > root) > ? > > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, > > Reiner (Kerp) > > aus Landsberg am Lech > > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de > > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:29:17 -0500 > From: Andrew Barrett-Bettcher > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: , , > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Any ideas about Boschatzke?? It's from around Warsaw and > she married a German and moved to Bessarabia.? > It sounds like Boszacki, but could that be a Polonization of > something else? > > From: krause.annegret at t-online.de> To: mail at reiner-kerp.de; > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 > 20:27:44 +0100> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized > German Names> > Hello,> > in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a > polonisation of GRUENING. "Zielony" is> the Polish word for the > colour "green".> > Regards, Annegret> > > ________________________________________> Annegret Krause> Am > Teeberg 16> 29581 Bohlsen> Tel. 05808-671> > > -----Original > Message-----> From: ger-poland-volhynia- > bounces at eclipse.sggee.org> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia- > bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Reiner> Kerp> Sent: > Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM> To: ger-poland- > volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] > Polonized German Names> > Dear fellow searchers,> > has anybody > come across the names> > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for > copper) being a polonisation of > RODE or ROTH;> > GROCHOWSKI or > GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER;> > > and> > _________________________________________________________________ > Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. > http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:37:50 -0800 > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: Reiner Kerp > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <4963B30E.3050605 at warnerengineering.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Reiner, > > I do not speak German, so I will leave the translations of the > following > into German to you. > > My Polish friend thinks that: > > if Kopra is a Polish word, and not a Latin one, then it is a > conjugation > of koper, which means the dill spice.?? The Polish > word for copper has > the root miedz with a slash over the z > > Groch is the peapod > > Ziel has to do with the color green > > Mala means small.?? She thought that the word malach > might have a > different meaning, but could not come up with it. > > Gary Warner > > > > > Reiner Kerp wrote: > > Dear fellow searchers, > > > > has anybody come across the names > > > > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a > polonisation of > > RODE or ROTH; > > > > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation > of > > ERBER; > > > > and > > > > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or > GREN(S) > > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin > as root) > > ? > > > > > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, > > > > Reiner (Kerp) > > > > aus Landsberg am Lech > > > > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de > > > > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > >?? > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 10 > *************************************************** > From jjstange at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 11:57:31 2009 From: jjstange at gmail.com (Jim Stange) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:57:31 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <02cc01c970ff$f7abc290$e70347b0$@net> References: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> <02cc01c970ff$f7abc290$e70347b0$@net> Message-ID: <77f14bdd0901071157n7650651eo9b274175563f1011@mail.gmail.com> Thanks so much for your help. I will begin to search the LDS and archives for the records here to see if I can link the names to the places. On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:41 PM, MIKE MCHENRY wrote: > There is a Karolin?w in Secymin. In Mapwig map P39_S31_ Modlin its toward > the North western end of the map. It's south of the Wisla/Vistula and just > south of the forest/park > > > MIKE > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:31 PM > To: Annegret Krause > Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > Importance: High > > Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have > the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village > by > this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? > > Thanks again, > Jim > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < > krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > > > Hi Jim, > > > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > > Secymin > > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > > > Annegret > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > Annegret Krause > > Am Teeberg 16 > > 29581 Bohlsen > > Tel. 05808-671 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > > Stange > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > > To: Rose Ingram > > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > > Ploehnen"?? > > > > Thanks! > > > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > > period? > > > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > *From:* Jim Stange > > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some > of > > > the old maps I have. > > > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From maurmike1 at verizon.net Wed Jan 7 11:41:41 2009 From: maurmike1 at verizon.net (MIKE MCHENRY) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:41:41 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof In-Reply-To: <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> References: <77f14bdd0901062205x9528ac6qe0dd5fd6be4c2ec9@mail.gmail.com> <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02cc01c970ff$f7abc290$e70347b0$@net> There is a Karolin?w in Secymin. In Mapwig map P39_S31_ Modlin its toward the North western end of the map. It's south of the Wisla/Vistula and just south of the forest/park MIKE -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:31 PM To: Annegret Krause Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Importance: High Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > period? > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jim Stange > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > > the old maps I have. > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From forsoftsong at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 15:53:09 2009 From: forsoftsong at yahoo.com (Joan) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:53:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonization of German names Message-ID: <142444.34495.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> With the example below in mind, how Zimemr (Zimer) has been Polonized to Cymer or Czymer, does anyone know what this name could be? My great-great-grandmother on my Mom's paternal side is listed in the archives as Cyttz. Could this then be, Zitts? When I got the research from the Polish archives, I found myself wondering what kind of name this could be? I'd never seen this spelling before. Thanks, Joan Message: 3 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: mag_ton Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <34656.3643.qm at web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being polonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records .? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research . Luckily , many of the records are indexed ! ??? MAGDA --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) ???8. Malachowski (Otto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 From: gswilson19 at aol.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:24:18 -0800 (PST) From: mag_ton at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <477895.74706.qm at web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being polonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records .? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research aid. ??? MAGDA? ( Plock , Chodecz , Zambrow ....) --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) ???8. Malachowski (Otto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 From: gswilson19 at aol.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:31:11 -0500 From: "Jim Stange" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof To: "Annegret Krause" Cc: Rose Ingram , ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > period? > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jim Stange > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > > the old maps I have. > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:18 +0100 From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Landkreis Ploehnen To: Message-ID: <135AB04570EB4EF3A8D9DBDCCB608393 at Acer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is a German link to that in Wikipedia: one has to look on the German Wikipedia under http://de.wikipedia.org/ and search vor "Landkreis Ploehnen" and go for the first result. You will realise that that Landkreis was named for Plonsk after the "Polenfeldzug" late 1939 and existed only until the beginning of 1945. Otto is right again! It's like Litzmannstadt for Lodz. Concerning Karolinenhof: there are 20 locations mentionned by Kartenmeister: the link is http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/databaseuwe.asp Frank ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:13:45 EST From: HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello: I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's birth record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter and according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in Tumaschew, and that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the possible parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year ranges before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this procedure. Thank you, Heinrich Richter **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:50:18 -0500 From: "MIKE MCHENRY" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof To: Message-ID: <02cd01c97101$2b330640$819912c0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 There is a Karolin?w in Secymin. In Mapwig map P39_S31_ Modlin its toward the North western end of the map. It's south of the Wisla/Vistula and just south of the forest/park MIKE -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:31 PM To: Annegret Krause Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Importance: High Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > On what documentation did you find these places written? What time > > period? > > > > Rose Ingram > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jim Stange > > *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM > > *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > > > Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: > > > > *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? > > > > It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. > > > > I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of > > the old maps I have. > > > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 13 *************************************************** From perry1121 at aol.com Wed Jan 7 16:00:07 2009 From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:00:07 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonization of German names In-Reply-To: <142444.34495.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <142444.34495.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49654207.2080208@aol.com> Joan, I suggest that Zietz would be a viable spelling for Cyttz. I have seen it while indexing for the Lublin Project. Zitts would also be possible. Sigrid Joan wrote: > With the example below in mind, how Zimemr (Zimer) has been Polonized to > Cymer or Czymer, does anyone know what this name could be? > > My great-great-grandmother on my Mom's paternal side is listed in the archives > as Cyttz. Could this then be, Zitts? When I got the research from the Polish > archives, I found myself wondering what kind of name this could be? I'd never > seen this spelling before. > > Thanks, Joan > > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:05:45 -0800 (PST) > From: mag_ton > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <34656.3643.qm at web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being polonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records .? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research . Luckily , many of the records are indexed ! > > ??? MAGDA > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM > > Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to > ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) > ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) > ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) > ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) > ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) > ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) > ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) > ???8. Malachowski (Otto) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 > From: gswilson19 at aol.com > ******************************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:24:18 -0800 (PST) > From: mag_ton at yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <477895.74706.qm at web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being polonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records .? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research aid. > > ??? MAGDA? ( Plock , Chodecz , Zambrow ....) > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM > > Send > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing > list submissions to > ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) > ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry > Frank) > ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) > ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) > ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) > ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) > ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) > ???8. Malachowski > (Otto) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 > From: gswilson19 at aol.com > ******************************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:31:11 -0500 > From: "Jim Stange" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > To: "Annegret Krause" > Cc: Rose Ingram , > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have > the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by > this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? > > Thanks again, > Jim > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < > krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > > >> Hi Jim, >> >> I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 >> Secymin >> belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. >> >> Annegret >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> Annegret Krause >> Am Teeberg 16 >> 29581 Bohlsen >> Tel. 05808-671 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org >> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim >> Stange >> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM >> To: Rose Ingram >> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof >> >> The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame >> would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. >> Ploehnen"?? >> >> Thanks! >> >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: >> >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> On what documentation did you find these places written? What time >>> period? >>> >>> Rose Ingram >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Jim Stange >>> *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM >>> *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof >>> >>> Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: >>> >>> *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? >>> >>> It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. >>> >>> I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of >>> the old maps I have. >>> >>> Thanks for any help you can provide. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:18 +0100 > From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Landkreis Ploehnen > To: > Message-ID: <135AB04570EB4EF3A8D9DBDCCB608393 at Acer> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > There is a German link to that in Wikipedia: one has to look on the German Wikipedia under http://de.wikipedia.org/ > and search vor "Landkreis Ploehnen" and go for the first result. > You will realise that that Landkreis was named for Plonsk after the "Polenfeldzug" late 1939 and existed only until the beginning of 1945. Otto is right again! It's like Litzmannstadt for Lodz. > > Concerning Karolinenhof: there are 20 locations mentionned by Kartenmeister: > the link is http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/databaseuwe.asp > > Frank > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:13:45 EST > From: HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Hello: > I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's birth > record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter and > according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in Tumaschew, and > that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the possible > parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year ranges > before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. > I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this > procedure. > > Thank you, > Heinrich Richter > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:50:18 -0500 > From: "MIKE MCHENRY" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > To: > Message-ID: <02cd01c97101$2b330640$819912c0$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > There is a Karolin?w in Secymin. In Mapwig map P39_S31_ Modlin its toward > the North western end of the map. It's south of the Wisla/Vistula and just > south of the forest/park > > > MIKE > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:31 PM > To: Annegret Krause > Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > Importance: High > > Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have > the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by > this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? > > Thanks again, > Jim > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < > krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > > >> Hi Jim, >> >> I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 >> Secymin >> belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. >> >> Annegret >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> Annegret Krause >> Am Teeberg 16 >> 29581 Bohlsen >> Tel. 05808-671 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org >> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim >> Stange >> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM >> To: Rose Ingram >> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof >> >> The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame >> would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. >> Ploehnen"?? >> >> Thanks! >> >> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: >> >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> On what documentation did you find these places written? What time >>> period? >>> >>> Rose Ingram >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Jim Stange >>> *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM >>> *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof >>> >>> Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: >>> >>> *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? >>> >>> It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. >>> >>> I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some >>> > of > >>> the old maps I have. >>> >>> Thanks for any help you can provide. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 13 > *************************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From otto at schienke.com Wed Jan 7 16:00:51 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:00:51 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Why Research is so difficult in Poland? Message-ID: <07C8BDFF-BED7-4638-8C2A-069C871DF2B8@schienke.com> The changing times confuse researchers. Regardless. . . we have a unique history. Our colonists seem to have had a bad case of wanderlust or so it appears on the surface. Always on the move, along with changing names? their names, names of rivers, of town, of counties, of districts and even of countries. The Poles themselves must have had an extreme dislike for country names ending with an 'A'. They meant trouble.?'Austria', 'Prussia', 'Russia'. Polish Wars?Do not miss this! A List of URLS for each War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_uprisings Our colonists of course wanted their own land?but this yen was overpowered by the real live threat of guns, bullets, and the pestilence that followed on a pale horse. Colonist movement is not by chance. Relocation centers around events. So much war. . What the aristocracy captured, it could tax. It was always a lose/lose situation for the common man. "Kanonenfutter und Steuern" (the following can be quickly researched by consulting with the Great Google and Wiki waiting behind the curtain) The why of events centers around the particular following happenings. The reasons why maps change. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - 1569c.e. - 1791c.e. Poland was the dominant partner. The Catholic Church was the force behind the administration. First Partition of Poland?August 5th. 1772 West Prussia Colonists begin flowing South. (this is basic?I could begin in the 1500's or even earlier) Second Partition of Poland?January 23rd. 1793 South Prussia/Posen New Parishes were founded under the new administration. Third Partition of Poland?October 24th. 1795 - 1807 New East Prussia/Warsaw Duchy of Warsaw?1807 - 1815 - Napoleon conquers. Napoleon appointed the Duke of Saxony over this district, hence a duchy. Congress Poland?1815-1915 Russia conquers. Under Russian domination. (Russian Poland is only an informal name for the area) 1815 - 1865?Russian rule, Polish administration, 1820 - Resistance began against Russian domination. I am certain German settlers had a hand in some of this. (Russia was exacting more tax on the textile industry to drive it into Russia instead) 1830 - 1831 - November Uprising?Resistance to the Polish Army being used for battle against the French The king quieted everything by banning Freemasonry. 1863 - 1865 - November Uprising?The people had enough of Russian rule. . . and Lost. Russian rule and Russian Administration 1914 - 1918 - World War Big story?the hot battles took place on the Eastern Front, in our backyards. ?> 11 wars up to 1939. 1939 - German invasion of Poland. 1939 - 1945 World War 2 1945 - Back to Russia until 1989. The Catholic Church assumes power. . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From albertmuth at aol.com Wed Jan 7 16:06:02 2009 From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:06:02 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonization of German names In-Reply-To: <49654207.2080208@aol.com> References: <142444.34495.qm@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49654207.2080208@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3F3C06DF5466-6C8-EE2@webmail-me03.sysops.aol.com> Also Zuetz, and Z?tz Al Mujth -----Original Message----- From: Sigrid Pohl Perry To: Joan Cc: Volhynia German Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 7:00 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonization of German names Joan, suggest that Zietz would be a viable spelling for Cyttz. I have seen t while indexing for the Lublin Project. Zitts would also be possible. Sigrid Joan wrote: With the example below in mind, how Zimemr (Zimer) has been Polonized to Cymer or Czymer, does anyone know what this name could be? My great-great-grandmother on my Mom's paternal side is listed in the rchives as Cyttz. Could this then be, Zitts? When I got the research from the olish archives, I found myself wondering what kind of name this could be? I'd ever seen this spelling before. Thanks, Joan Message: 3 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: mag_ton Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <34656.3643.qm at web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being olonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records ? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research . Luckily many of the records are indexed ! 0D ??? MAGDA --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) ???8. Malachowski (Otto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 From: gswilson19 at aol.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:24:18 -0800 (PST) From: mag_ton at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polinization of German names .... To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclip se.sggee.org Message-ID: <477895.74706.qm at web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ? I had the same experience with our German name ZIMMER ( Zimer ) being olonized to Czymer or Cymer ~~ than Russianized as well in certain FHL? records ? I made a chart of all my names in all three langauges for research aid. ??? MAGDA? ( Plock , Chodecz , Zambrow ....) --- On Tue, 1/6/09, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 11 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:33 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ??? ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???2. Re: Victories (Jerry Frank) ???3. Re: Victories (gswilson19 at aol.com) ???4. Re: Victories (Richard Stein) ???5. Polonized German Names (Gary Gomes) ???6. Re: Polonized German Names (MIKE MCHENRY) ???7. Re: Polonized German Names (Reiner Kerp) ???8. Malachowski (Otto) 0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:23:52 -0500 From: gswilson19 at aol.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:31:11 -0500 From: "Jim Stange" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof To: "Annegret Krause" Cc: Rose Ingram , ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <77f14bdd0901071031j1d03d66cu191b1871ad25b678 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There20is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > >> Jim, >> >> On what documentation did you find these places written? What time >> period? >> >> Rose Ingram >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Jim Stange >> *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM >> *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof >> >> Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: >> >> *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? >> >> It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. >> >> I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some of >> the old maps I have. >> >> Thanks for any help you can provide. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:18 +0100 From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Landkreis Ploehnen To: Message-ID: <135AB04570EB4EF3A8D9DBDCCB608393 at Acer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is a German link to that in Wikipedia: on e has to look on the German ikipedia under http://de.wikipedia.org/ and search vor "Landkreis Ploehnen" and go for the first result. You will realise that that Landkreis was named for Plonsk after the Polenfeldzug" late 1939 and existed only until the beginning of 1945. Otto is ight again! It's like Litzmannstadt for Lodz. Concerning Karolinenhof: there are 20 locations mentionned by Kartenmeister: the link is http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/databaseuwe.asp Frank ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:13:45 EST From: HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LDS lab site To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello: I have tried, without success, to locate a copy of my grandfather's birth record using the LDS lab site. My grandfather's name is Gustav Richter and according to the St Pete records he was born on Nov 11, 1872 in Tumaschew, and > that his birth is recorded on page 550. I have reviewed all of the possible parishes displayed under the Volyn index and have searched the year ranges before and after the recorded birth year, 1872 without any luck. I would appreciate advice or suggestions from someone familiar with this procedure. Thank you, Heinrich Richter **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 07 J an 2009 14:50:18 -0500 From: "MIKE MCHENRY" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof To: Message-ID: <02cd01c97101$2b330640$819912c0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 There is a Karolin?w in Secymin. In Mapwig map P39_S31_ Modlin its toward the North western end of the map. It's south of the Wisla/Vistula and just south of the forest/park MIKE -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Stange Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:31 PM To: Annegret Krause Cc: Rose Ingram; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof Importance: High Thank you for all of your feedback. It sounds as though Annegret may have the correct parish. Could Karolinenhof be Karolin?w? Is there a village by this name that would be in close proximity to Secymin? Thanks again, Jim On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Annegret Krause < krause.annegret at t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I think, "Zetzemin" means the village Secymin. Between 1939 and 1945 > Secymin > belonged to Kreis (county) Ploehnen/Plonsk. > > Annegret > > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Stange > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:05 AM > To: Rose Ingram=0 D> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof > > The names were on a written family tree without sources. The time frame > would be 1930's. There is also a baptism location of "Zetzemin, Kr. > Ploehnen"?? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Rose Ingram wrote: > > >> Jim, >> >> On what documentation did you find these places written? What time >> period? >> >> Rose Ingram >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Jim Stange >> *To:* ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:42 PM >> *Subject:* [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karolinenhof >> >> Does anyone recognize this place name in Poland: >> >> *Kreis Ploehnen* OR the village *Karolinenhof*? >> >> It may be in the area west of Wloclawek. >> >> I cannot find any alternate names in Polish or these locations on some >> of >> the old maps I have. >> >> Thanks for any help you can provide. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society fo r German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 13 *************************************************** _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ______________________________________________ er-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by ociety for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org ailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ra_stein at telus.net Wed Jan 7 16:15:25 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:15:25 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ed, Rozyszcze Lutheran parish records from St. Petersburg Archives are available in several forms: index at http://www.sggee.org/members/StPeteMember index at http://www.odessa3.org/search.html microfilms, see list at http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia images at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#w=;p=2;c=1469151;t=browsable St. Petersburg Archives records cover only to the end of 1885, with some years missing. Another set of Rozyszcze Parish records held in archives in Warsaw are on the 23800xy series of microfilms - see list at http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia These films cover the years 1862 to 1895 (to 1899 for births), including the years missed in the St. Petersburg Archive films. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: "e s" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68,Issue 10 Happy New year. I have been out of touch and likely missed renewal of membership. I am interested in Rozyszcze records; have they been updated and how do I access them? ----- Original Message ----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 10 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. victories (Carol Duff) > 2. Re: victories (Eduardo Kommers) > 3. Re: Polonized German Names (Otto) > 4. Re: victories (Carol Duff) > 5. Re: Polonized German Names (Annegret Krause) > 6. Re: Polonized German Names (Andrew Barrett-Bettcher) > 7. Re: Polonized German Names (Gary Warner) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:15:25 -0600 > From: Carol Duff > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > To: bronklimach at gmail.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <49639FBD.7050606 at redwing.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot > project. Today > I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I > have also > found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I > just > wanted to share this with you. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:26:00 -0200 > From: "Eduardo Kommers" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > To: > Message-ID: <017501c9702c$415ebed0$0401010a at Eduardo> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > When those records of Rozyszcze will be available on the website? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carol Duff" > To: ; volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org>Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:15 PM > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > > > >I am going through all the Rozyszcze records on the pilot > project. Today > > I found my great grandparents marriage on frame 123 of 1880. I > have also > > found other births of their siblings. I am so very pleased...I > just > > wanted to share this with you. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:06:37 -0500 > From: Otto > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: GPV List > Cc: Reiner Kerp > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > To clarify Reiner's statement: "beware of Reiner - he lies!" > > Reiner has never lied according to my knowledge. > The definition for 'lie' is "a false statement made with > deliberate > intent to deceive" > No, never to my knowledge. > > A discovery process. . . Yes. > A tendency to complexify. . . Yes. > We could go into the Dutch and East Frisian, even the Old > Prussian > meanings of 'Krahn' and still be left holding 'the bird'. Then > into > varying German/Norse dialects extending back to Sanskrit and > still be > left holding 'the bird'. I am certain Reiner and I would enjoy > the > mental stimulation as perhaps would others. The varying Platt > dialects > alone would be a challenge. > > The foremost problem is that most participants here speak > one > language, English. So in order not to confuse them I offer > the > following; > These Common American Dictionary definitions for 'Krahn' are > accurate > seeing we are discussing the surname 'Krahn', and not the bird > pecking > at our heels. Dictionaries alone can be confusing?it is > always on it > author's shoulders to clarify expressed meanings. > > -crane > 1. any large wading bird of the family Gruidae, characterized by > long > legs, bill, and neck and an elevated hind toe. > (I have relatives with the long legs, noses, and necks, yet I > never > gave though to checking for the elevated hind toe. . .) > -Krahn > German: nickname for a slim or long-legged person, from Middle > Low > German krane ?crane?. Compare Kranich. > > There may be variations of the surname?I've found "Kran' with > a > dropped 'h' but that is all. > > As I've stated before, our past histories are unique. > > Even I was in error when I stated my uncle 'Albert Krahn'. > Albert was > my first cousin, his father, Julius, was my uncle. So much for > old > memory banks. > ======= > . . . Otto > " The Zen > moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- > ________________________________ > "The future. . . . always catches up." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:18:25 -0600 > From: Carol Duff > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] victories > To: Jim Stange , > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <4963AE81.5010800 at redwing.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Start at > http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=2;c=1469151;t=browsable;w=0 > I go to Volyn, then to Lutsk, then to Rozhishche, and now I am > on 1880 > records, frame 128. It takes forever, but I intend to go > through all of > the records. Earlier, I found the maiden name of my Great > grandfather. I > know that Jerry or Bronwyn can tell you better and perhaps will. Carol > > Jim Stange wrote: > > Hello Carol, > > > > I am new to SGGEE this year. Can you explain the "pilot > project" to > > me breifely? I am interested as I have been trying to > research many > > of the LDS films on my ancestors from Poland but many are not > filmed....> > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Carol Duff > > > wrote: > > > > I am going through all the Rozyszcze > records on the pilot project. > > Today > > I found my great grandparents marriage > on frame 123 of 1880. I > > have also > > found other births of their siblings. > I am so very pleased...I just > > wanted to share this with you. > > > > > _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia > Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe > > http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list > info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:44 +0100 > From: "Annegret Krause" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: "'Reiner Kerp'" , > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a polonisation of GRUENING. > "Zielony" is > the Polish word for the colour "green". > > Regards, Annegret > > ________________________________________ > Annegret Krause > Am Teeberg 16 > 29581 Bohlsen > Tel. 05808-671 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf > Of Reiner > Kerp > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > > Dear fellow searchers, > > has anybody come across the names > > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a polonisation > of > RODE or ROTH; > > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER; > > and > > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or > GREN(S) > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin as > root) > ? > > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, > > Reiner (Kerp) > > aus Landsberg am Lech > > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de > > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:29:17 -0500 > From: Andrew Barrett-Bettcher > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: , , > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Any ideas about Boschatzke? It's from around Warsaw and > she married a German and moved to Bessarabia. > It sounds like Boszacki, but could that be a Polonization of > something else? > > From: krause.annegret at t-online.de> To: mail at reiner-kerp.de; > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 > 20:27:44 +0100> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized > German Names> > Hello,> > in my family I have ZIELINSKI being a > polonisation of GRUENING. "Zielony" is> the Polish word for the > colour "green".> > Regards, Annegret> > > ________________________________________> Annegret Krause> Am > Teeberg 16> 29581 Bohlsen> Tel. 05808-671> > > -----Original > Message-----> From: ger-poland-volhynia- > bounces at eclipse.sggee.org> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia- > bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Reiner> Kerp> Sent: > Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 AM> To: ger-poland- > volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] > Polonized German Names> > Dear fellow searchers,> > has anybody > come across the names> > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for > copper) being a polonisation of > RODE or ROTH;> > GROCHOWSKI or > GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation of > ERBER;> > > and> > _________________________________________________________________ > Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. > http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:37:50 -0800 > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonized German Names > To: Reiner Kerp > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <4963B30E.3050605 at warnerengineering.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Reiner, > > I do not speak German, so I will leave the translations of the > following > into German to you. > > My Polish friend thinks that: > > if Kopra is a Polish word, and not a Latin one, then it is a > conjugation > of koper, which means the dill spice. The Polish > word for copper has > the root miedz with a slash over the z > > Groch is the peapod > > Ziel has to do with the color green > > Mala means small. She thought that the word malach > might have a > different meaning, but could not come up with it. > > Gary Warner > > > > > Reiner Kerp wrote: > > Dear fellow searchers, > > > > has anybody come across the names > > > > KOPRAWICZ (Kopr old Polish word for copper) being a > polonisation of > > RODE or ROTH; > > > > GROCHOWSKI or GROCHULSKI (Groch - Erbse) being a polonisation > of > > ERBER; > > > > and > > > > ZIELINSKY or MALACHOWSKI being a polonisation of GROEN(S) or > GREN(S) > > or KRAHN(S) or (K)GREIN(S) (which have the first name Quirin > as root) > > ? > > > > > > Mit sch?nen Gr??en und den besten W?nschen f?r das neue Jahr, > > > > Reiner (Kerp) > > > > aus Landsberg am Lech > > > > mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de > > > > im web: http://reiner-kerp.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 10 > *************************************************** > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From fenenga at connpoint.net Wed Jan 7 17:51:06 2009 From: fenenga at connpoint.net (Cornelia Warner) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:51:06 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] timeline References: Message-ID: <010701c97133$92229320$da4ffb48@yourw04gtxld67> thank you for the "military" timeline, Otto, it helps to see what was what over the years. I admit to cluelessness on how to research my ancestor in Polish Russia, and that includes online research, though I've been researching online since '97. it's so foreign from the rest of my research that I'm utterly puzzled by it. I've tried to find all I could on him in America, but he's extreemly elusive. I'm looking for U. S. Commisioner's court records in Boston for him, but they won't tell me anything about his ancestry and I don't expect them to state his place of birth. a marriage application would be a treasure as it would tell me a lot about him...but for all I can find, one no longer exists for him. no vital records exist in America beyond a marriage record, his wife's death record and his son's birth record-oh, and a couple medical records for him, though that's not considered standard vital records.. no census record that I can find him on, either. depending on the date of the record, his birth is given either as Poland or Russia. I've posted him here before, so what I'd really like to know is how to find the family in Engen, Baden-Wurtenburg, prior to 1855. are there online records? I don't know their faith, don't know where they settled in Poland, don't know where they lived in England, and can't prove they were from Engen, but it's all I've got. thank you for directions in researching my German-Polish ancestor. Charles Jacob/Joseph Wagner son of Anton and Thekla of Germany b. abt 1855 Poland or Russia d. aft 1893 of Boston Massachusetts, U.S.A. no death or burial there so??? From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Wed Jan 7 17:17:30 2009 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:17:30 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2109C3CB28954323B6C55525C2657C19@Desktop> I would like to remind all posters to the List-Serve to please delete all parts of your email that do not apply to your message. When you reply and forget to delete everyone else's posts from your post then others must wade through a very long post to try to find what is new. Thank you. Earl From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Wed Jan 7 18:37:04 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:37:04 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] timeline In-Reply-To: <010701c97133$92229320$da4ffb48@yourw04gtxld67> References: <010701c97133$92229320$da4ffb48@yourw04gtxld67> Message-ID: <000001c97139$fe25bb50$fa7131f0$@net> Cornelia, Where did you get the info concerning possibility of Engen being a place for your research? Germany telephone directory at http://www.dastelefonbuch.de/ has 9 listings for Wagner in Engen, and about 356 listings for 25 km around Engen, so that is certainly a hotbed for Wagners. LDS has research material on Engen, such as church records for both Evangelical and Catholic churches. Go to the LDS site at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp and click on Library Catalog on pull-down list under Search Records. On the next screen click on Place Search. On the next screen put Engen in Place block, and Germany in Part of block. You may have done this research already. In the Individual Record section of the LDS site, I notice a listing for Charles Joseph Wagner, birth 1857, in Warsaw, Poland. Maybe placed there by yourself. Good luck. Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Cornelia Warner Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:51 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] timeline thank you for the "military" timeline, Otto, it helps to see what was what over the years. I admit to cluelessness on how to research my ancestor in Polish Russia, and that includes online research, though I've been researching online since '97. it's so foreign from the rest of my research that I'm utterly puzzled by it. I've tried to find all I could on him in America, but he's extreemly elusive. I'm looking for U. S. Commisioner's court records in Boston for him, but they won't tell me anything about his ancestry and I don't expect them to state his place of birth. a marriage application would be a treasure as it would tell me a lot about him...but for all I can find, one no longer exists for him. no vital records exist in America beyond a marriage record, his wife's death record and his son's birth record-oh, and a couple medical records for him, though that's not considered standard vital records.. no census record that I can find him on, either. depending on the date of the record, his birth is given either as Poland or Russia. I've posted him here before, so what I'd really like to know is how to find the family in Engen, Baden-Wurtenburg, prior to 1855. are there online records? I don't know their faith, don't know where they settled in Poland, don't know where they lived in England, and can't prove they were from Engen, but it's all I've got. thank you for directions in researching my German-Polish ancestor. Charles Jacob/Joseph Wagner son of Anton and Thekla of Germany b. abt 1855 Poland or Russia d. aft 1893 of Boston Massachusetts, U.S.A. no death or burial there so??? _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Jan 7 19:39:01 2009 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:39:01 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: <2109C3CB28954323B6C55525C2657C19@Desktop> References: <2109C3CB28954323B6C55525C2657C19@Desktop> Message-ID: <49657555.6070003@warnerengineering.com> Earl, If your habit is to add new postings at the top of the email instead of at the bottom, then the other posts actually make it easier to understand what is going on. I agree that posting at the bottom is a bother when the email gets to be very long. Gary Warner Earl.Schultz wrote: > > I would like to remind all posters to the List-Serve to please delete all > parts of your email that do not apply to your message. When you reply and > forget to delete everyone else's posts from your post then others must wade > through a very long post to try to find what is new. > > Thank you. > Earl > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From GKATKE at aol.com Wed Jan 7 23:06:40 2009 From: GKATKE at aol.com (GKATKE@aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 02:06:40 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RINAS Message-ID: Leslie, I have a Amanda Rinas b. 1887 in Volhynia Poland, Marr, (1) Roudolph Tonn, (2) Johann Scharfer, Immigrated (actually with my Grandfather Wilhelm Kotke), 1906 Ellis Island. I know this is the not the generation you are looking for but it may help to know she listed her last residence in Poland as Emilschin. You can find her on Roots Web's World Connect.. Good luck on your search, Gene Katke On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Leslie wrote: > Looking for Anna Rinas in Poland/Russia , b abt 1836 married Frederich > Zielke. Friederich's brothers, Heinrich and Martin, dates unknown, parents > unknown for both individuals./ Any help is appreciated. > Happy Holidays to all > Leslie > > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From GHBoehm at ish.de Thu Jan 8 04:06:53 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?windows-1252?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:06:53 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Why Research is so difficult in Poland? In-Reply-To: <07C8BDFF-BED7-4638-8C2A-069C871DF2B8@schienke.com> References: <07C8BDFF-BED7-4638-8C2A-069C871DF2B8@schienke.com> Message-ID: <4965EC5D.6040304@ish.de> Otto schrieb: > The Poles themselves must have had an extreme dislike for country > names ending with an 'A'. They meant trouble.?'Austria', 'Prussia', > 'Russia'. > Hello Otto, a bit difficult since the official Polish name for Poland is 'Polska' (no exception, look at http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polska ). > Congress Poland?1815-1915 Russia conquers. > Under Russian domination. (Russian Poland is only an informal name for > the area) > 'Russisch Polen' was also the official German labeling for the Polish territories occupied in WWI. German postage stamps were overprinted 'Russisch Polen' for use in those territories (see http://mbc.malopolska.pl/Content/12476/full/znaczki/1914-russisch-polen-3pf.jpg , http://i16.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/20/c9/415d_1.JPG ) which means that everything tasted better to the German Imperial Government than an independent Polish state! > 1815 - 1865?Russian rule, Polish administration, > 1820 - Resistance began against Russian domination. I am certain > German settlers had a hand in some of this. > I'm not so sure cince the movement wore a high risk and who of the German rural colonists, linen weavers and tradesmen would instead have adventured a perspective beyond the Ural? > (Russia was exacting more tax on the textile industry to drive it into > Russia instead) > 1830 - 1831 - November Uprising?Resistance to the Polish Army being > used for battle against the French > The king quieted everything by banning Freemasonry. > 1863 - 1865 - November Uprising?The people had enough of Russian > rule. . . and Lost. > There were uprisings against the Austrian & Prussian rule in 1846 and 1848 too. Both (the Krakow and the Posen uprising) were suppressed. G?nther From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 05:43:19 2009 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 05:43:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: <49657555.6070003@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <803651.82343.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I think different email programs handle the reply differently. Most put the reply at the top while others seem to append it to the bottom. The replier should be aware of this and keep others in mind as Earl pointed out. Karl --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Gary Warner wrote: From: Gary Warner Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters To: "Earl.Schultz" Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:39 PM Earl, If your habit is to add new postings at the top of the email instead of at the bottom, then the other posts actually make it easier to understand what is going on. I agree that posting at the bottom is a bother when the email gets to be very long. Gary Warner Earl.Schultz wrote: > > I would like to remind all posters to the List-Serve to please delete all > parts of your email that do not apply to your message. When you reply and > forget to delete everyone else's posts from your post then others must wade > through a very long post to try to find what is new. > > Thank you. > Earl > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From hhowell at lakedalelink.net Thu Jan 8 08:14:05 2009 From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net (hhowell) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:14:05 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gabin (Gombin) records Message-ID: Hi Does anyone know if birth records for Gabin (Gombin) and Dobryznkow, Poland have been indexed for the time period 1893 to 1896? I am searching for Adeline (Adaline) Rinas born about December 27, 1895 I do not know parents names. Herschuel Howell From worth_a at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 08:16:51 2009 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:16:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonization of German names In-Reply-To: <49654207.2080208@aol.com> Message-ID: <256698.49549.qm@web110403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Also sometimes seen as "Seitz". --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Sigrid Pohl Perry wrote: > From: Sigrid Pohl Perry > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polonization of German names > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 7:00 PM > Joan, > I suggest that Zietz would be a viable spelling for Cyttz. > I have seen > it while indexing for the Lublin Project. Zitts would also > be possible. > > Sigrid > > Joan wrote: > > With the example below in mind, how Zimemr (Zimer) has > been Polonized to > > Cymer or Czymer, does anyone know what this name > could be? > > > > My great-great-grandmother on my Mom's paternal > side is listed in the archives > > as Cyttz. Could this then be, Zitts? When I got > the research from the Polish > > archives, I found myself wondering what kind of name > this could be? I'd never > > seen this spelling before. > > > > Thanks, Joan > > > > From krushelh at telus.net Thu Jan 8 08:28:20 2009 From: krushelh at telus.net (Howard Krushel) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:28:20 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia In-Reply-To: <537161.69400.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Edie: Orel was a province approximately 250 miles north-east of Kiev. The Lutheran parish of Orel encompassed the entire province. This parish was formed in 1865, with the first Pastor being Frederick Albers who served until 1882, when Alexander Althausen took over and would have been the parish Pastor when your family moved in. It appears to have been a small parish with a total of 1400 parishioners in 1904. The distribution of settlers was as follows: City of Orel-790; city of Jelez and surroundings- 200; Brjansk-50; Liwny-40; Karatschew and Ssewsk 15, the Latvian colony Ljudinka in the Brjansk district 60; the Latvian rental village of Djatkowo-50; the manufacturing center Bjeshiza in the Brjansk district-150 Latvians; and Kasaki in the Jelez district-20. Very likely the reason for moving from Volhynia was as a result of the repressive legislations enacted by the Czarist Regime due to its concern to the sudden build-up of Germans on the their western border(Volhnyia);to get away from this pressure the Germans dispersed into many areas of the world , including Siberia, and as well, neighboring provinces. Why did they chose Orel? Perhaps an estate owner had property in both Volhynien and Orel; also, often a leader in the community made the move, thereby encouraging others(including extended families) to follow. Possibly one of your relatives might be able to enlighten us. The usual German migration pattern in the Western provinces revolved around the Clothing industry, where Germans would move into clothing manufacturing centers and then German farming communities would spring up around these centers. One last observation, there were good rail line connections from Volhynia to Orel, Brjansk, Liwny, and Jelez. Two individuals active in the founding of the Orel parish in 1865 were Alexander Mickwitz and Adam Klein. Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of E. Adam Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:32 AM To: SGGEE Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia Hello: I wonder if anyone has some information regarding the history of German settlement in and around the province of Orel in Russia? The war records on Odessa list a great number of people citing "Orel". And some of the birth dates indicate several generations born in that region. My family story is that my great-grandfather and others moved from Volhynia to the area in the early 20th century and founded a German village there called Kromolin (and variations thereof). Obviously there were previous German settlements in the area, perhaps of long standing. Which might provide some context for why my ancestors went in that direction. If anyone can share some history, it would be appreciated. My family names in that area are ADAM, DAUSE and WUTZKE, among others. I have found 28 families that appear to be from Kromolin in the war records. And some of them appear together in the same area in Volhynia in earlier generations. Edie Adam Virginia, USA __ From gary at warnerengineering.com Thu Jan 8 09:01:41 2009 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:01:41 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: <803651.82343.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <803651.82343.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49663175.6010702@warnerengineering.com> Karl, I use an email program that defaults the reply to the bottom of the email, but I dislike that location so much that before I make a reply I ALWAYS first move the cursor to the top of the message. I consider this a very bad feature in an otherwise acceptable email program. Gary Karl Krueger wrote: > I think different email programs handle the reply differently. Most > put the reply at the top while others seem to append it to the bottom. > The replier should be aware of this and keep others in mind as Earl > pointed out. > Karl > > --- On *Wed, 1/7/09, Gary Warner //* wrote: > > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters > To: "Earl.Schultz" > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:39 PM > > Earl, > > If your habit is to add new postings at the top of the email instead of > at the bottom, then the other posts actually make it easier to > understand what > is going on. I agree that posting at the bottom is a > bother when the email gets to be very long. > > Gary Warner > > Earl.Schultz wrote: > > > > I would like to remind all posters to the List-Serve to please delete all > > parts of your email that do not apply to your message. When you reply and > > forget to delete everyone else's posts from your post then others must > wade > > through a very long post to try to find what is new. > > > > Thank you. > > Earl > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing > list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Thu Jan 8 08:30:42 2009 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:30:42 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] RINAS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Leslie, if you have exhausted all other records and need to take a shot in the dark, you may want to look in the Thorn films. Thorn was a major centre with 5 Lutheran/Ev. churches in the area and in the time period you are looking at there were a lot of Rinas/Rienas in this area back to the 1700s and earlier. You may have to look at up to 5 films but the chances are high that your family passed through this area. The question is whether they were still there in 1836 or further east, say in Lipno. There are two Anna Rinas married to Zielkes in the SGGEE Pedigree Database but the location is not given. The Rinas in your time period seem to be in the Thorn, Wloclawek and Gostynin areas. Without any more clues you may need to look in each parish to see what you can find. Fortunately, some of these parish records are being extracted although slowly. Good luck to you...my Rienas dates from 1760. Earl On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Leslie wrote: > Looking for Anna Rinas in Poland/Russia , b abt 1836 married Frederich > Zielke. Friederich's brothers, Heinrich and Martin, dates unknown, parents > unknown for both individuals./ Any help is appreciated. > Happy Holidays to all > Leslie From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Thu Jan 8 08:35:36 2009 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:35:36 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: <49663175.6010702@warnerengineering.com> References: <803651.82343.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <49663175.6010702@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <462E43058F644D2BB0214C877F7BEB1A@Desktop> I use Outlook and it is an option to put your response at the top or bottom in replies. _____ From: Gary Warner [mailto:gary at warnerengineering.com] Sent: January 8, 2009 11:02 AM To: dabookk54 at yahoo.com Cc: Earl.Schultz; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters Karl, I use an email program that defaults the reply to the bottom of the email, but I dislike that location so much that before I make a reply I ALWAYS first move the cursor to the top of the message. I consider this a very bad feature in an otherwise acceptable email program. Gary From benovich at imt.net Thu Jan 8 11:07:06 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:07:06 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia References: Message-ID: <003d01c971c4$500392f0$0500a8c0@richard01> Howard's response to Edie is excellent. I would only add a tidbit I found in reading (in response to Edie's question) a few pages in Mikhail Kostiuk's book, Die Deutschen Kolonien in Wolhynien. In addition to factors mentioned by Howard, Kostiuk lays stress on the purely economic motive for moving east from Volhynia. He thinks that many who carved small farms out of the swamps and woods of Volhynnia did it chiefly to earn enough money by selling the place to buy larger plots wherever they could find them. Sometimes the government offered tax breaks for doing this (southern Ukraine), or land might be cheaper than in Volhynia (1890 is Chernigov and Poltava). In Siberia, 50 dessiatine plots were available, etc. For those that have the book, this is on pp. 40-41. Dick Benert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Krushel" To: ; "'SGGEE'" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia > Edie: > Orel was a province approximately 250 miles north-east of Kiev. The > Lutheran > parish of Orel encompassed the entire province. > This parish was formed in 1865, with the first Pastor being Frederick > Albers who served until 1882, when Alexander Althausen took over and would > have been the parish Pastor when your family moved in. > It appears to have been a small parish with a total of 1400 parishioners > in > 1904. The distribution of settlers was as follows: > City of Orel-790; city of Jelez and surroundings- 200; Brjansk-50; > Liwny-40; > Karatschew and Ssewsk 15, the Latvian colony Ljudinka in the Brjansk > district 60; the Latvian rental village of Djatkowo-50; the manufacturing > center Bjeshiza in the Brjansk district-150 Latvians; and Kasaki in the > Jelez district-20. > Very likely the reason for moving from Volhynia was as a result of the > repressive legislations enacted by the Czarist Regime due to its concern > to > the sudden build-up of Germans on the their western border(Volhnyia);to > get > away from this pressure the Germans dispersed into many areas of the world > , > including Siberia, and as well, neighboring provinces. > Why did they chose Orel? Perhaps an estate owner had property in both > Volhynien and Orel; also, often a leader in the community made the move, > thereby encouraging others(including extended families) to follow. > Possibly > one of your relatives might be able to enlighten us. > The usual German migration pattern in the Western provinces revolved > around > the Clothing industry, where Germans would move into clothing > manufacturing > centers and then German farming communities would spring up around these > centers. > One last observation, there were good rail line connections from Volhynia > to > Orel, Brjansk, Liwny, and Jelez. > Two individuals active in the founding of the Orel parish in 1865 were > Alexander Mickwitz and Adam Klein. > > Howard Krushel > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of E. > Adam > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:32 AM > To: SGGEE > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia > > > Hello: I wonder if anyone has some information regarding the history of > German settlement in and around the province of Orel in Russia? > > The war records on Odessa list a great number of people citing "Orel". And > some of the birth dates indicate several generations born in that region. > My > family story is that my great-grandfather and others moved from Volhynia > to > the area in the early 20th century and founded a German village there > called > Kromolin (and variations thereof). > > Obviously there were previous German settlements in the area, perhaps of > long standing. Which might provide some context for why my ancestors went > in > that direction. If anyone can share some history, it would be appreciated. > > My family names in that area are ADAM, DAUSE and WUTZKE, among others. I > have found 28 families that appear to be from Kromolin in the war records. > And some of them appear together in the same area in Volhynia in earlier > generations. > > Edie Adam > Virginia, USA > > > > > __ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.3/1878 - Release Date: 1/6/2009 7:56 AM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.3/1878 - Release Date: 1/6/2009 7:56 AM From duesterhoeft at gmx.de Thu Jan 8 11:25:26 2009 From: duesterhoeft at gmx.de (duesterhoeft@gmx.de) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:25:26 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: <49663175.6010702@warnerengineering.com> References: <803651.82343.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <49663175.6010702@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <49665326.8000109@gmx.de> Gary Warner schrieb am 08.01.2009 18:01: > I use an email program that defaults the reply to the bottom of the > email, but I dislike that location so much that before I make a reply I > ALWAYS first move the cursor to the top of the message. I consider > this a very bad feature in an otherwise acceptable email program. Gary, well, contrary to you, I consider this a very good feature, but anyway: you seem to use Thunderbird and you may change the default setting by simply going to Tools > Account Settings > Composition & Addressing. Stefan Duesterhoeft From krushelh at telus.net Thu Jan 8 15:43:21 2009 From: krushelh at telus.net (Howard Krushel) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:43:21 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia In-Reply-To: <003d01c971c4$500392f0$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: <232282DB6D184683AED4DE76D98DCE58@D24VBP91> Some very good points, Dick; the economic factors that were in play as well as the political; their land contracts perhaps were expiring and would not be renewed; Eigentum or the prohibition to land ownership, too caused stress for our relatives.......all political in nature. And then in further checking I found where Pastor Ernst Althausen, Pastor of the Tutschin and Rowno parish in Volhynia from 1888 to 1908, was a brother to Alexander Althausen who was the resident Pastor of the Orel Parish from 1883 until 1931; and one can't help but think that this could have factored in as another reason for settlers moving into Orel after 1888. Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: Richard Benert [mailto:benovich at imt.net] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:07 PM To: Howard Krushel; ejadam at yahoo.com; 'SGGEE' Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia Howard's response to Edie is excellent. I would only add a tidbit I found in reading (in response to Edie's question) a few pages in Mikhail Kostiuk's book, Die Deutschen Kolonien in Wolhynien. In addition to factors mentioned by Howard, Kostiuk lays stress on the purely economic motive for moving east from Volhynia. He thinks that many who carved small farms out of the swamps and woods of Volhynnia did it chiefly to earn enough money by selling the place to buy larger plots wherever they could find them. Sometimes the government offered tax breaks for doing this (southern Ukraine), or land might be cheaper than in Volhynia (1890 is Chernigov and Poltava). In Siberia, 50 dessiatine plots were available, etc. For those that have the book, this is on pp. 40-41. Dick Benert From kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu Thu Jan 8 17:59:21 2009 From: kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu (Kenneth Browne) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:59:21 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Request to All Posters In-Reply-To: <2109C3CB28954323B6C55525C2657C19@Desktop> References: <2109C3CB28954323B6C55525C2657C19@Desktop> Message-ID: <4966AF79.4070408@alumni.umass.edu> Earl.Schultz wrote: > > I would like to remind all posters to the List-Serve to please delete all > parts of your email that do not apply to your message. When you reply and > forget to delete everyone else's posts from your post then others must wade > through a very long post to try to find what is new. > I think Earl's comments were in reference to several recent posts where the reply was being made to the digest form of the list's messages. When replying to a digest that has, say 22 messages and all are included with the reply, it becomes impossible to figure out the point of the reply when it may be a reply to message #6, for example. As for the quoting of mesages, some programs also allow the reply to only include whatever the poster "selects" which eliminates the need to delete out portions that don't apply or aren't being commented upon. If you receive your messages in one combined post (a digest) replying involves: 1. finding the appropriate topic and entering it as "re: appropriate topic" in the subject line 2. editing out all the other messages in the digest 3. trimming the quotation down to just the part you wish to comment on. It's true that different email programs handle replying and quoting differently but the default behavior (i.e.new reply above or below the quoted message) can usually be changed in the options/preferences of the email client. Likewise, posters need to pay attention to the default "reply-to" setting. This can usually be changed so that a message goes to "all" or "sender only". Kenneth Browne researching: BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org From ejadam at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 18:38:05 2009 From: ejadam at yahoo.com (E. Adam) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:38:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia Message-ID: <80492.60053.qm@web53510.mail.re2.yahoo.com> All I can say is wow! This group is chockful of knowledge, and I thank you for expanding my understanding of this history. In exchange, here's what I know from my family's history. I believe my great-grandfather David Adam is listed in the Volhynian land expropriation records from 1915. Anecdotally, I was told he and another man led a group of Germans from Volhynia to land between Bryjansk and Orel near the town of Schisdra and started a new "colony" there. So my guess is this happened around 1915 since two of his sons were drafted into the Russian army in World War I and they never lived in Russia, but rather Volhynia. One of them visited from Germany after the war and described them as living in Kaluga province. In late 1941, the German army came to the village, where the story is they were surprised to find so many Germans. (That bit seems a little suspicious now.) The Germans in the village went first to Orel, where they boarded trains and were sent to Shitomir, ironically a short distance from where David Adam had lived 25 years earlier. (The Russian relatives evacuated to Belarus.) It was here in Ukraine that my family was separated from the rest of the village people, who I now know were sent to the Warthegau because they appear in the war records. My family was evacuated by the Wehrmacht again through Augsburg in Germany to Slovenia, where they were attacked by Yugoslav partisans as the war ended. They lived in displaced camps in Austria and came to the US in 1952. My dad tells me that they looked for DPs from their area of Russia but found only those from Ukraine. My Russian great-grandmother wrote after the war that many Germans returned to "Salonowka". She also writes that Schisdra was completely destroyed and the Russian village Poludowa (sort of a twin to the German) was rebuilt and completely changed. Thank you once again. With your help, I've started my "Orel" file and look forward to adding to it. Edie Adam --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Howard Krushel wrote: > From: Howard Krushel > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in Orel province, Russia > To: "'SGGEE'" > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 6:43 PM > Some very good points, Dick; the economic factors that were > in play as well > as the political; their land contracts perhaps were > expiring and would not > be renewed; Eigentum or the prohibition to land ownership, > too caused stress > for our relatives.......all political in nature. And then > in further > checking I found where Pastor Ernst Althausen, Pastor of > the Tutschin and > Rowno parish in Volhynia from 1888 to 1908, was a brother > to Alexander > Althausen who was the resident Pastor of the Orel Parish > from 1883 until > 1931; and one can't help but think that this could have > factored in as > another reason for settlers moving into Orel after 1888. > Howard Krushel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Benert [mailto:benovich at imt.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:07 PM > To: Howard Krushel; ejadam at yahoo.com; 'SGGEE' > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German settlement in > Orel province, > Russia > > Howard's response to Edie is excellent. I would only > add a tidbit I found > in reading (in response to Edie's question) a few pages > in Mikhail Kostiuk's > > book, Die Deutschen Kolonien in Wolhynien. In addition to > factors mentioned > > by Howard, Kostiuk lays stress on the purely economic > motive for moving east > > from Volhynia. He thinks that many who carved small farms > out of the swamps > > and woods of Volhynnia did it chiefly to earn enough money > by selling the > place to buy larger plots wherever they could find them. > Sometimes the > government offered tax breaks for doing this (southern > Ukraine), or land > might be cheaper than in Volhynia (1890 is Chernigov and > Poltava). In > Siberia, 50 dessiatine plots were available, etc. For > those that have the > book, this is on pp. 40-41. > > Dick Benert > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From fenenga at connpoint.net Thu Jan 8 19:54:34 2009 From: fenenga at connpoint.net (Cornelia Warner) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:54:34 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] GENEALOGY -- MY ELUSIVE GERMAN ANCESTOR -- FYI References: Message-ID: <003501c9720d$fc521970$544cfb48@yourw04gtxld67> I have many, but not all, documents and records for Charles, his wife and only child. what I am missing for Charles; church baptism record from Russian occupied Poland. immigration and naturalization records. Seaman's certificates-non-extant for the period he worked in. it was never clarified if they had been destroyed or simply not made at all. pre 1898 ship's pay records for him-these aren't indexed and you have to know at least the year and ship's name to get a look-up from them-but NARA and Ancestry are working to index everything in NARA's holdings, someday they'll be indexed and online. U.S. Commissioner's court records for him-still looking for these. a proven death and burial record for him. to answer your questions, the marriage record says they were married by...Peter? MacDonald, but does not say anything about him other than he was of Boston. I've been told the church they were most likely married in was the Springfield Street Presbytarian church, but it's gone, no-one seems to know where the records are, and the Presbytarian archives didn't think to keep records of the parishoners. the info on parents is that they were Anton and Thecla for Charles, Alan and Sarah for Annie. nothing more. no witnesses, this is a marriage register, not a record or application (neither have been found) residence given is mearly Boston. occupation; mariner (none for Annie, though she was a seamstress) Charles was 28, Annie 26. Charles born in Poland, Annie born in Cape Breton. no attendant for the birth record, no age for the parents. residence is 46 Fayette St., Boston, MA. the occupation is, again, mariner. Annie left MA first for Chicago (reason unknown and there for just a short while, then near Omaha, NE where she remarried (? marriage record eludes me) and then moved to California with her new husband Paul Gillette and son Allan by Charles-and Paul's mother. they settled in Oakland and Annie died there as Annie Gillette on August 30, 1909 of "Hyelatus of the liver with gastritis". Allan spent some time in Cape Breton and I suspect he is the "Ellen McAuley" living with his aunt and uncle McAuley in the 1901 census as they had no Ellen and the two are born the same year. a miss-heard/miss-understood name and some assumption on the enumerator's part could explain why there's an Ellen in the family when one doesn't exist, and why I can't find Allan when I know he should be there per family stories. since Annie and Charles did not marry until 1883, they are two individuals with very common names, and picking the right one out of the bunch is nearly impossible. there are a lot of Annie's in Boston, none are seamstresses. a lot of Charles Wagners, none are mariners. it is a great frustration of mine that the 1890 is lost, Charles was in town when the city directory was made! but the city directories don't give the necissary information-birth place, parents birthplace, etc. he was treated in the U.S. Mariner's hospital in Chelsea on 8 Jan of 1894 for Pneumonia, released on 2 Feb as improved, and the very next day had an aneurism of his arch aorta-also released improved. in both records he is given as born abt 1857 in Russia. there is a sailor's society of Boston, I don't recall it's exact name. again, the records are not indexed and the people who run it don't have the time or manpower to check it for me. I haven't found a very focused grouping of German groups in Boston. I'm aware of German newspapers in Boston, but don't have access to them, can't read German and have no clue if there's any record of Charles in them. he may be completely Anglicised by 1880, if he did grow up in England. yes, I've searched the spelling variants, including Waggoner. I had heard that Thecla/Thekla was a name given to girls born on the feast day for Thekla. perhaps they were Catholic. it would certainly help, once church records are finally found. this is the timeline that I have for Charles, but there are, of course, many holes in it. abt 1855-1857 born in either Poland or Russia, father Anton, mother Thekla said to have been raised in England-nothing found in English census records bef 1883 arrived in America-states he is a US Citizen in 1883 Jun 1883 arrived in New York from Liverpool, England on the ship Ethiopia Oct 4 1883 married in Boston, MA to Annie McDonald father Alan, mother Sarah Aug 1884 on the ship Katherine J. Ireland-filed a claim against Master and first mate for abuse. 1885 resided 46 Fayette, Boston, MA 1886 resided 46 Fayette, Boston, MA May 3 1886 son Allan b. in Boston, MA (only child by Annie) 1887 possibly living at 6 Grenville place-Mrs. Annie Wagner (may be someone else) 1888/1889 resided 434 Chelsea in East Boston 1888/1889 possibly living at 6 Grenville place-Mrs. Annie Wagner (may be someone else) 1889 sailed on Stephen G. Loud, H. C. Sibley, bark Sarah-Mate (otherwise just a sailor) Apr 17, 1889 wrote from Fallriver, MA May 12, 1889 wrote from Brunswick, NS Jun 4 & 5, 1889 wrote from Boston, MA Jun 7 & 8, 1889 wrote from Bangor, ME Jun 7 1889 payed 5.00 from H. C. Sibley Jul 15, 1889 wrote from Aspinwall Oct 9 1889 payed at rank of Mate from bark Sarah 1890 residing 267 Columbus Ave. Boston, MA 1890 sailed on Sachem, bark Sarah Mar 4, 1890 wrote from St. Michaels Mar/May (illegable) 6 1890 payed from bark Sarah May 23 1890 payed from the Sachem May 28, 1890 wrote from Fayal Jun 13, 1890 wrote from St. Michaels Aug 16, 1890 wrote from Boston, MA Aug 19, 1890 wrote from Boston, MA Sep 18, 1890 wrote from Fayal Sep 28th 1890 wrote from St. Michaels 1891 residing 267 Columbus Ave and rear of Prince-same man? or two different men? 1892, 1893 and all years after not listed in Boston/Chelsea city directories 26 Apr 1892 arrived in Boston, MA from St. John NB on the steamer Cumberland Jan 1894 sailed on the Mercedita Feb 1st payed 2.00 from the Mercedita Jan 8 1894 in Marine Hospital, Chelsea, MA for Pneumonia, released Feb 2 as improved Feb 3 1894 in Marine Hospital, Chelsea, MA for aneurism of arch aorta-released improved in Mar 1894 3 Aug 1894 said to have died on this date, form for a death record started, never completed or returned to Massachusetts vital record office and there is no death record for him for 10 years on either side of 1894 in Suffolk Co., MA by 1898 Annie had removed to Chicago, IL, then it is said to Omaha, NE where she met and married Paul Gillette. they removed to Oakland, California for further details, including full transcript of the handful of surviving letters Charles sent Annie, go to my file at WorldConnect at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=necko&I11.x=23&I11y=10 hopefully this answers your questions, but if it brings more, or you have any ideas, please ask. regards, Cornelia ----- Original Message ----- From: K GRUENEICHCAREY To: fenenga at connpoint.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: GENEALOGY -- MY ELUSIVE GERMAN ANCESTOR -- FYI Dear Cornelia, Do you have actual images or copies of those records for your elusive ancestor? These are just some speculations & it might be a long shot, but have you thoroughly mined the info for leads, such as --- Was the marriage done by a minister or a JP, what info on parents, witnesses, residences, occupations or ages of the bride & groom were given? For the son's birth record, was there any attendant, age of parents, residence or occupation given? For the wife's death notice, what was the cause of death -- consumption, accident, childbirth, etc? how old was the wife? How old were any children? If fairly young, perhaps he remarried to find a new mother for the kids? Was the family here for the 1880 census? Otherwise, it is a long 20 year gap until the 1900 & so much changed in the meantime which makes it difficult to track our forebears. What info do you have on his medical records? Was he being treated for a recurring condition? Any occupational diseases? Have you check any city directories from the 1880s-WWI for the New England, NYC areas? Any ethnic lodges or occupational societies that you might dig up? Have you searched for spelling variants -- Karl, Josef, Jack, etc? The name "Thekla" for his mother in Germany is an early Greek saint, so perhaps they were Catholic at one point. Good luck to you & let us know if anything turns up. KGRUENEICHCAREY at hotmail.com From roseingram at shaw.ca Thu Jan 8 20:41:10 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:41:10 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] GENEALOGY -- MY ELUSIVE GERMAN ANCESTOR -- FYI References: <003501c9720d$fc521970$544cfb48@yourw04gtxld67> Message-ID: <024101c97214$7ea6c1e0$6601a8c0@duocore> Be aware that when looking for Charles's birth record in Poland, he name will probably be Karl or Carl. The parents names Anton and Thekla, they may well have been Catholic. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Cornelia Warner To: K GRUENEICHCAREY ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] GENEALOGY -- MY ELUSIVE GERMAN ANCESTOR -- FYI I have many, but not all, documents and records for Charles, his wife and only child. what I am missing for Charles; church baptism record from Russian occupied Poland. immigration and naturalization records. Seaman's certificates-non-extant for the period he worked in. it was never clarified if they had been destroyed or simply not made at all. pre 1898 ship's pay records for him-these aren't indexed and you have to know at least the year and ship's name to get a look-up from them-but NARA and Ancestry are working to index everything in NARA's holdings, someday they'll be indexed and online. U.S. Commissioner's court records for him-still looking for these. a proven death and burial record for him. to answer your questions, the marriage record says they were married by...Peter? MacDonald, but does not say anything about him other than he was of Boston. I've been told the church they were most likely married in was the Springfield Street Presbytarian church, but it's gone, no-one seems to know where the records are, and the Presbytarian archives didn't think to keep records of the parishoners. the info on parents is that they were Anton and Thecla for Charles, Alan and Sarah for Annie. nothing more. no witnesses, this is a marriage register, not a record or application (neither have been found) residence given is mearly Boston. occupation; mariner (none for Annie, though she was a seamstress) Charles was 28, Annie 26. Charles born in Poland, Annie born in Cape Breton. no attendant for the birth record, no age for the parents. residence is 46 Fayette St., Boston, MA. the occupation is, again, mariner. Annie left MA first for Chicago (reason unknown and there for just a short while, then near Omaha, NE where she remarried (? marriage record eludes me) and then moved to California with her new husband Paul Gillette and son Allan by Charles-and Paul's mother. they settled in Oakland and Annie died there as Annie Gillette on August 30, 1909 of "Hyelatus of the liver with gastritis". Allan spent some time in Cape Breton and I suspect he is the "Ellen McAuley" living with his aunt and uncle McAuley in the 1901 census as they had no Ellen and the two are born the same year. a miss-heard/miss-understood name and some assumption on the enumerator's part could explain why there's an Ellen in the family when one doesn't exist, and why I can't find Allan when I know he should be there per family stories. since Annie and Charles did not marry until 1883, they are two individuals with very common names, and picking the right one out of the bunch is nearly impossible. there are a lot of Annie's in Boston, none are seamstresses. a lot of Charles Wagners, none are mariners. it is a great frustration of mine that the 1890 is lost, Charles was in town when the city directory was made! but the city directories don't give the necissary information-birth place, parents birthplace, etc. he was treated in the U.S. Mariner's hospital in Chelsea on 8 Jan of 1894 for Pneumonia, released on 2 Feb as improved, and the very next day had an aneurism of his arch aorta-also released improved. in both records he is given as born abt 1857 in Russia. there is a sailor's society of Boston, I don't recall it's exact name. again, the records are not indexed and the people who run it don't have the time or manpower to check it for me. I haven't found a very focused grouping of German groups in Boston. I'm aware of German newspapers in Boston, but don't have access to them, can't read German and have no clue if there's any record of Charles in them. he may be completely Anglicised by 1880, if he did grow up in England. yes, I've searched the spelling variants, including Waggoner. I had heard that Thecla/Thekla was a name given to girls born on the feast day for Thekla. perhaps they were Catholic. it would certainly help, once church records are finally found. this is the timeline that I have for Charles, but there are, of course, many holes in it. abt 1855-1857 born in either Poland or Russia, father Anton, mother Thekla said to have been raised in England-nothing found in English census records bef 1883 arrived in America-states he is a US Citizen in 1883 Jun 1883 arrived in New York from Liverpool, England on the ship Ethiopia Oct 4 1883 married in Boston, MA to Annie McDonald father Alan, mother Sarah Aug 1884 on the ship Katherine J. Ireland-filed a claim against Master and first mate for abuse. 1885 resided 46 Fayette, Boston, MA 1886 resided 46 Fayette, Boston, MA May 3 1886 son Allan b. in Boston, MA (only child by Annie) 1887 possibly living at 6 Grenville place-Mrs. Annie Wagner (may be someone else) 1888/1889 resided 434 Chelsea in East Boston 1888/1889 possibly living at 6 Grenville place-Mrs. Annie Wagner (may be someone else) 1889 sailed on Stephen G. Loud, H. C. Sibley, bark Sarah-Mate (otherwise just a sailor) Apr 17, 1889 wrote from Fallriver, MA May 12, 1889 wrote from Brunswick, NS Jun 4 & 5, 1889 wrote from Boston, MA Jun 7 & 8, 1889 wrote from Bangor, ME Jun 7 1889 payed 5.00 from H. C. Sibley Jul 15, 1889 wrote from Aspinwall Oct 9 1889 payed at rank of Mate from bark Sarah 1890 residing 267 Columbus Ave. Boston, MA 1890 sailed on Sachem, bark Sarah Mar 4, 1890 wrote from St. Michaels Mar/May (illegable) 6 1890 payed from bark Sarah May 23 1890 payed from the Sachem May 28, 1890 wrote from Fayal Jun 13, 1890 wrote from St. Michaels Aug 16, 1890 wrote from Boston, MA Aug 19, 1890 wrote from Boston, MA Sep 18, 1890 wrote from Fayal Sep 28th 1890 wrote from St. Michaels 1891 residing 267 Columbus Ave and rear of Prince-same man? or two different men? 1892, 1893 and all years after not listed in Boston/Chelsea city directories 26 Apr 1892 arrived in Boston, MA from St. John NB on the steamer Cumberland Jan 1894 sailed on the Mercedita Feb 1st payed 2.00 from the Mercedita Jan 8 1894 in Marine Hospital, Chelsea, MA for Pneumonia, released Feb 2 as improved Feb 3 1894 in Marine Hospital, Chelsea, MA for aneurism of arch aorta-released improved in Mar 1894 3 Aug 1894 said to have died on this date, form for a death record started, never completed or returned to Massachusetts vital record office and there is no death record for him for 10 years on either side of 1894 in Suffolk Co., MA by 1898 Annie had removed to Chicago, IL, then it is said to Omaha, NE where she met and married Paul Gillette. they removed to Oakland, California for further details, including full transcript of the handful of surviving letters Charles sent Annie, go to my file at WorldConnect at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=necko&I11.x=23&I11y=10 hopefully this answers your questions, but if it brings more, or you have any ideas, please ask. regards, Cornelia ----- Original Message ----- From: K GRUENEICHCAREY To: fenenga at connpoint.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: GENEALOGY -- MY ELUSIVE GERMAN ANCESTOR -- FYI Dear Cornelia, Do you have actual images or copies of those records for your elusive ancestor? These are just some speculations & it might be a long shot, but have you thoroughly mined the info for leads, such as --- Was the marriage done by a minister or a JP, what info on parents, witnesses, residences, occupations or ages of the bride & groom were given? For the son's birth record, was there any attendant, age of parents, residence or occupation given? For the wife's death notice, what was the cause of death -- consumption, accident, childbirth, etc? how old was the wife? How old were any children? If fairly young, perhaps he remarried to find a new mother for the kids? Was the family here for the 1880 census? Otherwise, it is a long 20 year gap until the 1900 & so much changed in the meantime which makes it difficult to track our forebears. What info do you have on his medical records? Was he being treated for a recurring condition? Any occupational diseases? Have you check any city directories from the 1880s-WWI for the New England, NYC areas? Any ethnic lodges or occupational societies that you might dig up? Have you searched for spelling variants -- Karl, Josef, Jack, etc? The name "Thekla" for his mother in Germany is an early Greek saint, so perhaps they were Catholic at one point. Good luck to you & let us know if anything turns up. KGRUENEICHCAREY at hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From larrysteinke at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 23:10:37 2009 From: larrysteinke at gmail.com (larry steinke) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:10:37 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] geoportal sat maps for Poland updated In-Reply-To: <47979C8A.2020709@verizon.net> References: <44D1AB21-8221-4713-89FC-D49C147CC69F@gmail.com> <47979C8A.2020709@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8BDA5376-468D-4AC1-970A-C6E6621E3BF7@gmail.com> Hi everyone, i noticed that the geoportal satellite map site has been updated and has some nice new features that make it easier to navigate. it now has layers that can be used to overlay or switch between sat image and scanned maps and borders etc. and tools for measuring distance between points etc. enable the layer "Panstwowy Rejestr Granic" to see borders by Powiat and Gmina etc. enable Ortofotomapa layer for Sat images. enable Skany map topograficznych for a detailed map when zoomed in (but need to switch off Ortofotomapa to see it) here is the link: http://maps.geoportal.gov.pl/webclient/ Cheers. -Larry From dr.stewner at t-online.de Fri Jan 9 15:04:27 2009 From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:04:27 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg Message-ID: <72DE299467F2452293C8CAACDBF96EEA@Acer> I am trying to find the location Renneberg on a modern map. That location is mentionned in the file SGGEE001 and the only source (Google) beside that was Albert Breyer "Deutsche Gaue in Mittelpolen" published by upsteamvistula.org. There it is said that in the prussian time (I think around 1800) 7 bigger swabian village were build up: Czarnocice, Friedrichstal, Lilienfeld, Wilhelmstal, Rosental, Neu-Nenneberg and Schwedelbach. Does anyone know where that Neu-Ronnebach lays? Virtual Earth gives 8 km south of Kutno and 1,4 km SE of Obidowek. Can that be true? Frank Stewner From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Fri Jan 9 16:53:47 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:53:47 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg In-Reply-To: <72DE299467F2452293C8CAACDBF96EEA@Acer> References: <72DE299467F2452293C8CAACDBF96EEA@Acer> Message-ID: <001801c972bd$e527dc70$af779550$@net> Are you searching for Neu-Rennenberg and Renneberg, or Neu-Nenneberg and Nenneberg? Jewishgen ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp does not find a Renneberg nor a Neu-Renneberg, but does find a Rennberg in Russia, 488 NNW of Moscow. Same search site finds Czarnocice 150 miles WNW of Warszawa, a Friedrichsthal 89 miles N of Warszawa, a Lilienfelde 85 miles N of Warszawa, a Rosenthal 234 miles WSW of Warszawa, no Schwedelbach but a stream called Zwettlbach in Austria. Multimap at http://www.multimap.com/ finds Schwedelbach about 100 miles N of Warszawa. Was not able to locate a Neu-Ronnebach nor a Ronnebach. Not a lot of help, but you can check these out yourself using ShtetlSeeker or Multimap. Good luck on your search. Joe in Texas, USA -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Frank Stewner Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:04 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg I am trying to find the location Renneberg on a modern map. That location is mentionned in the file SGGEE001 and the only source (Google) beside that was Albert Breyer "Deutsche Gaue in Mittelpolen" published by upsteamvistula.org. There it is said that in the prussian time (I think around 1800) 7 bigger swabian village were build up: Czarnocice, Friedrichstal, Lilienfeld, Wilhelmstal, Rosental, Neu-Nenneberg and Schwedelbach. Does anyone know where that Neu-Ronnebach lays? Virtual Earth gives 8 km south of Kutno and 1,4 km SE of Obidowek. Can that be true? Frank Stewner _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From albertmuth at aol.com Fri Jan 9 18:19:42 2009 From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:19:42 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg In-Reply-To: <72DE299467F2452293C8CAACDBF96EEA@Acer> References: <72DE299467F2452293C8CAACDBF96EEA@Acer> Message-ID: <8CB40E107DD67D9-AE4-A29@WEBMAIL-MZ34.sysops.aol.com> Wygorzele -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Frank Stewner To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 6:04 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg I am trying to find the location Renneberg on a modern map. That location is mentionned in the file SGGEE001 and the only source (Google) beside that was Albert Breyer "Deutsche Gaue in Mittelpolen" published by upsteamvistula.org. There it is said that in the prussian time (I think around 1800) 7 bigger swabian village were build up: Czarnocice, Friedrichstal, Lilienfeld, Wilhelmstal, Rosental, Neu-Nenneberg and Schwedelbach. Does anyone know where that Neu-Ronnebach lays? Virtual Earth gives 8 km south of Kutno and 1,4 km SE of Obidowek. Can that be true? Frank Stewner _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From roseingram at shaw.ca Fri Jan 9 18:50:17 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:50:17 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gabin (Gombin) records References: Message-ID: <010e01c972ce$2b982330$6601a8c0@duocore> Herschuel, There are no filmed records for Gabin Evangelical beyond 1890. Civil birth records in Dobrzykow Catholic registers are filmed up to 1896. I do not know of anyone indexing these films. If you are reasonably sure that Adeline was born in December 1895, and may have been registered/baptised in Gabin Evangelical church, you could email the Plock Archives and ask if they could do a search for (and obtain a copy of) the birth record in the time frame 1894 to 1896. According to the Pradziad http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.php?l=en the Plock archives has birth records to 1900. The cost may be $20-$30 for the search and copy of the record and then wiring charges on top of that when they report to you with results. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: hhowell To: SGGEE LIST Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gabin (Gombin) records Hi Does anyone know if birth records for Gabin (Gombin) and Dobryznkow, Poland have been indexed for the time period 1893 to 1896? I am searching for Adeline (Adaline) Rinas born about December 27, 1895 I do not know parents names. Herschuel Howell _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Fri Jan 9 19:08:04 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (Joseph Pessarra) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:08:04 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg In-Reply-To: <8CB40E107DD67D9-AE4-A29@WEBMAIL-MZ34.sysops.aol.com> References: <72DE299467F2452293C8CAACDBF96EEA@Acer> <8CB40E107DD67D9-AE4-A29@WEBMAIL-MZ34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000301c972d0$a7e0c760$f7a25620$@net> ShtelSeeker has Wygorzele 82.5 miles W of Warszawa. Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of albertmuth at aol.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:20 PM To: dr.stewner at t-online.de; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg Wygorzele -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Frank Stewner To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 6:04 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Neu-Renneberg or Renneberg I am trying to find the location Renneberg on a modern map. That location is mentionned in the file SGGEE001 and the only source (Google) beside that was Albert Breyer "Deutsche Gaue in Mittelpolen" published by upsteamvistula.org. There it is said that in the prussian time (I think around 1800) 7 bigger swabian village were build up: Czarnocice, Friedrichstal, Lilienfeld, Wilhelmstal, Rosental, Neu-Nenneberg and Schwedelbach. Does anyone know where that Neu-Ronnebach lays? Virtual Earth gives 8 km south of Kutno and 1,4 km SE of Obidowek. Can that be true? Frank Stewner _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From rlyster at telusplanet.net Sat Jan 10 17:33:36 2009 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:33:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] translating letters Message-ID: <15496602.8745101231637616923.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090110/8a8312dd/attachment.html From krushelh at telus.net Sat Jan 10 20:57:01 2009 From: krushelh at telus.net (Howard Krushel) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:57:01 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] translating letters In-Reply-To: <15496602.8745101231637616923.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94> Message-ID: <544DA18272B540C08A5957434FD98DF4@D24VBP91> Rita: In looking at an old map of Pommerania; I see Meiersberg a touch south west of Ueckermuende, and some distance below(south) the town of Jatznick; Jatznick is in the Kreis of Uekermuende in what was called East Germany, after the 2nd World War; the Atlantic Bridge to Germany-Pommerania indicates that the place to check for records would be in the Pfarrarchiv(church Archive) of Jatznick. Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Rita Lyster Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 6:34 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] translating letters I have a letter with the return address of Meiersberg, Krs Uckermunde (umlaut over both u's) or Uckermundele, Meck. Vorp I think. Then on the top line it has the date of 7 January 1930 Jahr and a word before it that doesn't make sense at all. It looks like Zutzeick or something like that.....anybody have any suggestions. The letter is all in German but here is one line that may be Polish with the address Kreis Uckerminde (this time "minde" instead of "munde") then Zatznick i prom A different person addressed the envelope and I suspect that is why the difference in spelling. Can someone tell me if the Zutzeick is some type of greeting? Rita Lyster From rlyster at telusplanet.net Sat Jan 10 23:35:35 2009 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:35:35 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] pedigree database source Message-ID: <5480836.8806991231659335474.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090110/76ecaf1d/attachment.html From roseingram at shaw.ca Sat Jan 10 23:44:12 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:44:12 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] pedigree database source References: <5480836.8806991231659335474.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes94> Message-ID: <013801c973c0$65693ac0$6601a8c0@duocore> Rita, What names are your looking for? Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita Lyster To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:35 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] pedigree database source Can I find out who this is: SGGEE001r8 (maybe it is me!) Rita ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From mail at reiner-kerp.de Sun Jan 11 13:48:49 2009 From: mail at reiner-kerp.de (Reiner Kerp) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:48:49 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Zutzeick References: Message-ID: Dear Rita, > It looks like Zutzeick or something like that.....anybody have any > suggestions. would probably mean "Zur Zeit" => at the time being. Mit sch?nen Gr??en aus Landsberg am Lech, Reiner (Kerp) mailto:mail at reiner-kerp.de im web: http://reiner-kerp.de From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Sun Jan 11 16:07:38 2009 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:07:38 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] CYL and CYLC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CF6ADD8542B4BC5B05D0EE6AF3C24AA@Desktop> In the Michalki-Rypin Ev. parish the names CYL and CYLC appear frequently, 1810 to 1865. I have seen one or two times when the names were interchangeable but this seems like the exception. Can someone tell me for sure whether these are two different names and what their German/English equivalents would be. I've seen CYL = Ziel and maybe Zielke would come from that. Thanks, Earl From worth_a at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 22:14:07 2009 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:14:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] CYL and CYLC In-Reply-To: <9CF6ADD8542B4BC5B05D0EE6AF3C24AA@Desktop> Message-ID: <244759.30758.qm@web110415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> "Cyl" could also be the Pomeranian name "Sell". --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Earl.Schultz wrote: > From: Earl.Schultz > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] CYL and CYLC > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 7:07 PM > In the Michalki-Rypin Ev. parish the names CYL and CYLC > appear frequently, > 1810 to 1865. I have seen one or two times when the names > were > interchangeable but this seems like the exception. Can > someone tell me for > sure whether these are two different names and what their > German/English > equivalents would be. I've seen CYL = Ziel and maybe > Zielke would come from > that. > > Thanks, > Earl > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Jan 12 00:08:02 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:08:02 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] CYL and CYLC In-Reply-To: <9CF6ADD8542B4BC5B05D0EE6AF3C24AA@Desktop> References: <9CF6ADD8542B4BC5B05D0EE6AF3C24AA@Desktop> Message-ID: <496AFA62.2080100@ish.de> Earl.Schultz schrieb: > > In the Michalki-Rypin Ev. parish the names CYL and CYLC appear frequently, > 1810 to 1865. I have seen one or two times when the names were > interchangeable but this seems like the exception. Can someone tell me for > sure whether these are two different names and what their German/English > equivalents would be. I've seen CYL = Ziel and maybe Zielke would come from > that. > > Thanks, > Earl Hello Earl, at least CYLC seems to derive from the town of Z?lz [Bia?a], Landkreis Neustadt [Prudnik], Upper Silesia. G?nther From worth_a at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 11:09:05 2009 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:09:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Warsaw records 1860s In-Reply-To: <79pc8o$1i3c4u@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <80240.83644.qm@web110416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jerry Frank has correctly pointed out that "Warsaw" can mean a number of things. If the reference is to the city itself, here is a (Polish language) link to a Wikipedia page for the main Lutheran (i.e., Evangelical-Augsbergian) parish in Warsaw. http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parafia_Ewangelicko-Augsburska_%C5%9Awi%C4%99tej_Tr%C3%B3jcy_w_Warszawie And here is a link to a Wikipedia page on the Warsaw Evangelical Cemetery, which seems well preserved (and is not too far from the Warsaw Family History Center!) http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cmentarz_Ewangelicko-Augsburski_w_Warszawie The cemetery has some huge mausoleums in it, as many of the successful merchants/industrialists in Czarist Warsaw were ethnic Germans, including the Wedel chocolate-makers. > > At 01:03 AM 14/12/2008, Robin Grube wrote: > >Hello list members: > >I have been researching my German ancestors from the > former Austro-Hungarian > >Empire and I thought the experience I gained would help > me now that I am > >searching for more information on another German line > from Poland/Russia. > >Not so! I feel like a beginner again, but can someone > tell me if Germans in > >Warsaw ( probably Lutheran) used one or several > churches, did they live in > >mixed neighborhoods, or by themselves in the 1860s? My > greatgrandfather came > >to the US in 1892 with wife and new baby, from Kiev. I > don't know how long > >he had lived there, but he listed on official documents > that he was born in > >Warsaw. > >HAAK, Karl * 26.11.1863 > >Were there Ortsippenbuchs or other German records from > this area? Are Family > >History Library microfilmed church records available? > Thanks for any ideas > >of paths to pursue. Robin Haak Grube > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From haraldbick at aol.com Mon Jan 12 12:13:35 2009 From: haraldbick at aol.com (Harald Bick) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:13:35 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia-Photos Message-ID: <496BA46F.1030508@aol.com> Hello list members see here some photos of Volhynia. Greetings from Germany Harald Bick From Hannes.Werner at online.de Mon Jan 12 12:35:11 2009 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:35:11 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Shitomir parish - WERNER Message-ID: <007101c974f5$490c4440$f800a8c0@end2000> Hello list-members, is there anybody who transcribed the FULL marriage records of Shitomir 1868. I'm looking for the detailed marriage records of Rudolph WERNER + Bertha Hartwig Gottfried WERNER + Caroline (Niesgolke - last name is definitively wrong) They married Febr. 20th 1868 in Shitomir. In 1870/71 they appear in Sabrol / Antonowka / Bonasowka near Luzk/ Volhynia. Any help on detailed information is welcome. By the way: some of their siblings emigrated to Canada and the US. Hannes Werner Germany From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Jan 12 14:13:35 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Shitomir parish - WERNER In-Reply-To: <007101c974f5$490c4440$f800a8c0@end2000> References: <007101c974f5$490c4440$f800a8c0@end2000> Message-ID: Hannes, To the best of our knowledge, full marriage records are not available for Zhitomir Parish.? Only the St. Petersburg Consisitory records are available and they generally only contain name of bride and groom and date of event. Of note is that early records up to about 1845 or so were detailed and contained names of parents, places of birth, ages, etc. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannes Werner Date: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:28 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Shitomir parish - WERNER To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Hello list-members, > > is there anybody who transcribed the FULL marriage records of > Shitomir 1868. > I'm looking for the detailed marriage records of > > Rudolph WERNER + Bertha Hartwig > Gottfried WERNER + Caroline (Niesgolke - last name is > definitively wrong) > > They married Febr. 20th 1868 in Shitomir. In 1870/71 they appear > in Sabrol / Antonowka / Bonasowka near Luzk/ Volhynia. > > Any help on detailed information is welcome. > By the way: some of their siblings emigrated to Canada and the > US. > > Hannes Werner > Germany > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From haraldbick at aol.com Mon Jan 12 15:19:38 2009 From: haraldbick at aol.com (Harald Bick) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:19:38 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia-map Message-ID: <496BD00A.40302@aol.com> Hello list members, and here a Volhynia-map from 1655. Good hunting Harald From jibeho22 at comcast.net Mon Jan 12 20:25:22 2009 From: jibeho22 at comcast.net (Randy Marks) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:25:22 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Maga-Ibafai-Hungary Message-ID: <002301c97536$f3c641b0$7101a8c0@jibeho10> I am trying to find the location where my grandmother was born. Her US Social Security Application indicates place of birth. The form requests place of birt be specified as City-County-State. Her entry on the form is: Hungary-Ibafai-Maga (could also be Niaga). I am assuming Ibafai is a county or district, and Maga/Niaga is a village. I have been able to find a village named Ibafa, but have not had success finding Maga in a county or district named Ibafai. The US Social application is dated 31-Jan-1963 (in case she specified birthplace using place names as they existed at that time). She immigrated to the US around 1910-1920. Have tried Google maps, and TerraServer and other resources but cannot come up with a conclusive match for the place name she specified. Any help locating her birthplace on a map would be appreciated. Randy From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Mon Jan 12 21:25:04 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:25:04 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Maga-Ibafai-Hungary In-Reply-To: <002301c97536$f3c641b0$7101a8c0@jibeho10> References: <002301c97536$f3c641b0$7101a8c0@jibeho10> Message-ID: <002001c9753f$4a531c80$def95580$@net> JewishGen ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp finds Maga at: M?ga, M?gah?d populated place 48?04' N 21?46' E E M U G Hungary 130.5 miles ENE of Budapest 47?30' N 19?5' E It finds Ibafa at: Ibafa, Gy?r?f?, Korp?d, Sormas populated place 46?09' N 17?55' E E M U G Hungary 108.3 miles SSW of Budapest 47?30' N 19?5' E The two locations are not close to each other. If you go to this location, the 1913 gazeteer of Hungary, you will find Ibafai: http://www.radixhub.com/radixhub/gazetteers/1913/baranya.htm Ibafai is shown as a Notary District. Korp?d (Ibafa) is shown as a town in Ibafai district. However, there is no Maga shown as a town in Ibafai district. The county name is Baranya. If you just use part of the URL above, http://www.radixhub.com/radixhub/gazetteers/1913/ you will find the starting page for this gazetteer, which shows all of the counties. But, I think the Ibafai district above is probably right, and the town of Maga must be there. It might be a very small village. Not a lot of help. Good luck. Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Randy Marks Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:25 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Maga-Ibafai-Hungary I am trying to find the location where my grandmother was born. Her US Social Security Application indicates place of birth. The form requests place of birt be specified as City-County-State. Her entry on the form is: Hungary-Ibafai-Maga (could also be Niaga). I am assuming Ibafai is a county or district, and Maga/Niaga is a village. I have been able to find a village named Ibafa, but have not had success finding Maga in a county or district named Ibafai. The US Social application is dated 31-Jan-1963 (in case she specified birthplace using place names as they existed at that time). She immigrated to the US around 1910-1920. Have tried Google maps, and TerraServer and other resources but cannot come up with a conclusive match for the place name she specified. Any help locating her birthplace on a map would be appreciated. Randy _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From cgschott at earthlink.net Tue Jan 13 15:51:09 2009 From: cgschott at earthlink.net (Carolyn Schott) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:51:09 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Germans from Hungary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CE196B4F44B4F339C2BB7F237A1CA0A@Carolyn> Randy - I don't know anything about that particular village, but for lots of Germans from Hungary info, check out http://www.dvhh.org/ My Klein ancestors wandered around Hungary for awhile and this has been a GREAT source for me to track 'em down. Carolyn >Message: 5 >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:25:22 -0700 >From: "Randy Marks" >Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Village Maga-Ibafai-Hungary >To: >Message-ID: <002301c97536$f3c641b0$7101a8c0 at jibeho10> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > >I am trying to find the location where my grandmother was born. >Her US Social Security Application indicates place of birth. >The form requests place of birt be specified as City-County-State. >Her entry on the form is: > Hungary-Ibafai-Maga (could also be Niaga). > >I am assuming Ibafai is a county or district, and Maga/Niaga >is a village. > >I have been able to find a village named Ibafa, but have not >had success finding Maga in a county or district named Ibafai. >The US Social application is dated 31-Jan-1963 (in case she >specified birthplace using place names as they existed at that time). >She immigrated to the US around 1910-1920. >Have tried Google maps, and TerraServer and other resources >but cannot come up with a conclusive match for the place name >she specified. > >Any help locating her birthplace on a map would be appreciated. > >Randy From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Tue Jan 13 20:43:07 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:43:07 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lebensbericht Message-ID: <7ablht$2gatj5@pd5mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> We have been contacted by a gentleman who is doing a research paper on Germans in Volhynia as part of his role as a professor of church history. He is trying to get a copy of a document which he refers to as Lebensbericht written by Ludwig Brenner, a Kantor / Lehrer from Kolowert near Rowno. If anyone knows about this document, please contact me. We would like to make arrangements to obtain a copy. Thank you very much. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca From Gerhard.Koenig at gmx.net Wed Jan 14 08:27:21 2009 From: Gerhard.Koenig at gmx.net (Gerhard Koenig) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:27:21 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lebensbericht Message-ID: <20090114162721.154510@gmx.net> Jerry, it seems that our Historischer Verein Wolhynien e.V. received a copy of those Lebensbericht from Ludwig Brenner. Parts of it were published in #9 and #10 of the Wolhynische Hefte. If you dont find a copy in Canada you will have to write to Wiesentheid. gerhard -- Take part + Read - http://wolhynien.de Informations + Questions - http://forum.wolhynien.net Museum in Linstow - http://umsiedlermuseum.wolhynien.de Historical Society - http://historischerverein.wolhynien.de -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From rlyster at telusplanet.net Wed Jan 14 19:58:49 2009 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:58:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fix a record Message-ID: <13589866.14202591231991929591.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090114/a9dafec5/attachment.html From roseingram at shaw.ca Wed Jan 14 20:24:54 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:24:54 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fix a record References: <13589866.14202591231991929591.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> Message-ID: <049501c976c9$3752ff20$6601a8c0@duocore> Rita, I suggest that you write to the people at databases at sggee.org who will deal with matter for you. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita Lyster To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] fix a record I'm not sure where I report an error to fix the data base given new information. #I211374 Amalie Belter is listed as a child of Gottlieb and Julianne She is actually the sister of Gottlieb (daughter of August and Wilhelmine Damsch (Doms) and is born about 1870) She married Herman Pigorsch first and ?? Wall second. I have this information from personal letters that my grandfather recieved from her (his aunt). Rita Lyster ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ra_stein at telus.net Thu Jan 15 08:30:09 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:30:09 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Assistance searched, Hilfe gesucht In-Reply-To: <001e01c97717$c67ffec0$14b2a8c0@Wohnzimmer> References: <001e01c97717$c67ffec0$14b2a8c0@Wohnzimmer> Message-ID: Hallo Helmut, I regret that I do not have Bonnie Foster's current e-mail address. She is not a member of SGGEE and she has not posted any messages on the mailing list since 2004. I am forwarding your inquiry to the mailing list in hopes that someone can help you. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: Helmut Sauerbier To: ra_stein at telus.net Cc: helmut_ahnenforschun at gmx.de Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:47 AM Subject: Assistance searched, Hilfe gesucht Hello Mr. Stein, I look for email contact too Bonnie more foster. Can you help me? Their contact to Bonnie Foster Thu September 30 16:10: 52 PDT 2004 on www.sggee.org. , Topic Tittelmeier, Heinrich/Rudolph. I have contact to a Mr. Tittelmeier, whose great-grandfather is the same Johann Tittelmeier, like the great-grandfather of Bonnie Foster, their email: brf4622003 at yahoo.com expired. I am member the sggee. Thank you. Yours sincerely Helmut Sauerbier Hallo Herr Stein, ich suche EMail-Kontakt zu Bonnie foster. K?nnen Sie mir helfen? Ihr Kontakt zu Bonnie Foster Thu Sep 30 16:10:52 PDT 2004 auf der www.sggee.org., Thema Tittelmeier, Heinrich/Rudolph. Ich habe Kontakt zu einem Herrn Tittelmeier, dessen Urgro?vater derselbe Johann Tittelmeier ist, wie der Urgro?vater von Bonnie Foster, ihre EMail: brf4622003 at yahoo.com ist erloschen. Ich bin Mitglied der sggee. Vielen Dank. Mit freundlichen Gr??en Helmut Sauerbier From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Thu Jan 15 08:47:51 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:47:51 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Assistance searched, Hilfe gesucht In-Reply-To: References: <001e01c97717$c67ffec0$14b2a8c0@Wohnzimmer> Message-ID: I tracked her down via a recent posting on Ancestry but her email address there is blocked.? I responded on that Bulletin Board and as soon as I get her address, I will pass it on personally to Helmut. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Stein Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:34 am Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Assistance searched,?? Hilfe gesucht To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org, Helmut Sauerbier > Hallo Helmut, > > I regret that I do not have Bonnie Foster's current e-mail > address.? She is not a member of SGGEE and she has not > posted any messages on the mailing list since 2004. > > I am forwarding your inquiry to the mailing list in hopes that > someone can help you. > > Dick Stein > ? ----- Original Message ----- > ? From: Helmut Sauerbier > ? To: ra_stein at telus.net > ? Cc: helmut_ahnenforschun at gmx.de > ? Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:47 AM > ? Subject: Assistance searched, Hilfe gesucht > > > ? Hello Mr. Stein, I look for email contact too Bonnie more > foster. > ? Can you help me? Their contact to Bonnie Foster > ? Thu September 30 16:10: 52 PDT 2004 on www.sggee.org. , > ? Topic Tittelmeier, Heinrich/Rudolph. > ? I have contact to a Mr. Tittelmeier, > ? whose great-grandfather is the same Johann Tittelmeier, > ? like the great-grandfather of Bonnie Foster, > ? their email: brf4622003 at yahoo.com expired. > ?? I am member the sggee. > ? Thank you. > ? Yours sincerely > ? Helmut Sauerbier > > > > > > > ? Hallo Herr Stein, > > ? ich suche EMail-Kontakt zu > ? Bonnie foster. > > ? K?nnen Sie mir helfen? > > ? Ihr Kontakt zu Bonnie Foster > ? Thu Sep 30 16:10:52 PDT 2004 auf der www.sggee.org., > Thema Tittelmeier, Heinrich/Rudolph. > > ? Ich habe Kontakt zu einem Herrn Tittelmeier, dessen > Urgro?vater derselbe Johann Tittelmeier ist, wie der Urgro?vater > von Bonnie Foster, ihre EMail: > ? brf4622003 at yahoo.com ist erloschen. > > ? Ich bin Mitglied der sggee. > > ? Vielen Dank. > > ? Mit freundlichen Gr??en > ? Helmut Sauerbier > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From dr.stewner at t-online.de Thu Jan 15 11:11:01 2009 From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:11:01 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location Message-ID: I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what is the name today? Frank Stewner From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Thu Jan 15 11:46:04 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:46:04 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c97749$e6baf5a0$b430e0e0$@net> If you use ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp and using the pulldown tab to look for Wegierka with the exact spelling, you will find it with no problem There are 4 map choices for looking at its exact location. W?gierka populated place 49?53' N 22?34' E E M U G Poland 177.0 miles SSE of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Frank Stewner Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:11 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what is the name today? Frank Stewner _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Thu Jan 15 11:53:20 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:53:20 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: <000001c97749$e6baf5a0$b430e0e0$@net> References: <000001c97749$e6baf5a0$b430e0e0$@net> Message-ID: <000101c9774a$eaff1280$c0fd3780$@net> Actually, there are five choices for maps. One is gotten by clicking on the coordinates. Joe -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of joepessarra Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'Dr. Frank Stewner'; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location If you use ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp and using the pulldown tab to look for Wegierka with the exact spelling, you will find it with no problem There are 4 map choices for looking at its exact location. W?gierka populated place 49?53' N 22?34' E E M U G Poland 177.0 miles SSE of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Frank Stewner Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:11 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what is the name today? Frank Stewner _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Hannes.Werner at online.de Thu Jan 15 14:14:05 2009 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:14:05 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location References: Message-ID: <002d01c9775e$94f86df0$f800a8c0@end2000> Hallo Herr Stewner, bei meinen Ortssuchen in Polen benutze ich sehr oft mapa.szukacz . Bisher bin ich damit IMMER f?ndig geworden ! Den exakten Ort habe ich nicht gefunden. Das einzige, was etwa ?hnlich ist, w?re: WEGRZYNOWO - ein Ort jenseits der Weichsel. Zusammen mit den anderen Orten Sady, Piotrkowek und Zyck liegt es am n?chsten und k?nnte passen. Man kann ?brigens auch mit * = Joker suchen, z. B. Wegr* www.mapa.szukacz.pl Rechts unter Miejscowosc den Ort eintragen. Suchen mit "Pokaz". Unter "Zbliz" ( 1 - kontur) k?nnen Sie die Aufl?sung angeben ! =========== When searching places in Poland I often use www.mapa.szukacz.pl You may search by joker-function, e. g. Weg* Enter the place in "Miejscowosc". Then use "Pokaz" for searching. + Found places are marked by red circles. You see the bigger places/towns in the surrounding and choose. On the right side (down) you see a list of places. You may choose the place by clicking on the blue markings. On top of the riht side you see "Zbliz" - 1m - 2m - 4m - .... There you may get closer to chosen area. Hannes Werner Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Frank Stewner" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location > I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. > Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what is the name today? > > Frank Stewner > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From larrysteinke at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 01:07:22 2009 From: larrysteinke at gmail.com (larry steinke) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:07:22 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] how to get details of a specific LDS film online Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm not sure if there is a better way or not but I found that you can get details for a specific LDS film number using the following link. (just replace the last digits with your specified film number) http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=filmhitlist&columns=*%2C180%2C0&filmno=1191148 The advanced search form on the familysearch page doesn't seem to give you this option directly. Cheers. -Larry From textor_jan at hotmail.com Fri Jan 16 01:51:55 2009 From: textor_jan at hotmail.com (Jan Textor) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:51:55 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frank Stewner wrote: > I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. > Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what is the name today? > > Frank Stewner > Frank, In the vicinity of Gabin and Zyck there is no such village today. However, I found two villages called Wegierki and Kol. Nowosiodly Wegierki on a Polish map from 1839. You can study the relevant section of this map here: http://textor.dk/maps/Wegierki.jpg Kol. Nowosiodly means something like newly established colony. My guess is that these two villages no longer exist because they were situated too close to the river Wisla, and therefore probably were flooded too often. Hope this helps. Jan Textor http://textor.dk/homepage/ From dr.stewner at t-online.de Fri Jan 16 05:05:03 2009 From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:05:03 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location References: Message-ID: Jan, that solves the problem and Wgierki is near to Zyck and also Piotrkowek both laying just a little to SE. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Textor To: Dr. Frank Stewner ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location Frank Stewner wrote: > I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. > Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what is the name today? > > Frank Stewner > Frank, In the vicinity of Gabin and Zyck there is no such village today. However, I found two villages called Wegierki and Kol. Nowosiodly Wegierki on a Polish map from 1839. You can study the relevant section of this map here: http://textor.dk/maps/Wegierki.jpg Kol. Nowosiodly means something like newly established colony. My guess is that these two villages no longer exist because they were situated too close to the river Wisla, and therefore probably were flooded too often. Hope this helps. Jan Textor http://textor.dk/homepage/ From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Fri Jan 16 05:14:39 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:14:39 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79p70j$1g96vp@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> An interesting discovery: I couldn't understand why some of the place names on Jan's map were in italics. So I looked up the word in my Polish dictionary Wegierski = of Hungary If you look at other italic words on the map, you see village names appended in italics as: Niemieckie = of Germany Polski = of Poland It would appear therefore that, in addition to our Germans, there was a small community of Hungarians living in that area. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 06:05 AM 16/01/2009, Dr. Frank Stewner wrote: >Jan, >that solves the problem and Wgierki is near to Zyck and also >Piotrkowek both laying just a little to SE. >Frank > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jan Textor > To: Dr. Frank Stewner ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location > > > Frank Stewner wrote: > > > I cannot find the location Wegierka on any modern map. It is > laying in Gabin and Zyck Polskie Parish. > > Near to it are Sady and Piotrkowek. Where does it lay or what > is the name today? > > > > Frank Stewner > > > > Frank, > > In the vicinity of Gabin and Zyck there is no such village > today. However, I found two villages called Wegierki and Kol. > Nowosiodly Wegierki on a Polish map from 1839. You can study the > relevant section of this map here: > http://textor.dk/maps/Wegierki.jpg > > Kol. Nowosiodly means something like newly established > colony. My guess is that these two villages no longer exist > because they were situated too close to the river Wisla, and > therefore probably were flooded too often. > > Hope this helps. > > Jan Textor > http://textor.dk/homepage/ > From mag_ton at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 15:44:20 2009 From: mag_ton at yahoo.com (mag_ton) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:44:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Imielno / Mielno Message-ID: <935102.99656.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looking for Evangelical parish records and realized that there is Mielno ( which is stated on an ancestor's record ) and Imielno in the Chodecz area .Time period : 1800 ~ 1840' s . Are these two places the same , on top of one another or far apart ??? From roseingram at shaw.ca Fri Jan 16 15:58:14 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:58:14 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Imielno / Mielno References: <935102.99656.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013f01c97836$4b683f20$6601a8c0@duocore> Yes, I would say they are the same. Mielno is about 1.25 miles west of Chodecz. What names are you looking for? Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: mag_ton To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Imielno / Mielno Looking for Evangelical parish records and realized that there is Mielno ( which is stated on an ancestor's record ) and Imielno in the Chodecz area .Time period : 1800 ~ 1840' s . Are these two places the same , on top of one another or far apart ??? _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Fri Jan 16 16:30:12 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:12 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Imielno / Mielno In-Reply-To: <935102.99656.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <935102.99656.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c9783a$c28ebb20$47ac3160$@net> -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of mag_ton Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 5:44 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Imielno / Mielno Looking for Evangelical parish records and realized that there is Mielno ( which is stated on an ancestor's record ) and Imielno in the Chodecz area .Time period : 1800 ~ 1840' s . Are these two places the same , on top of one another or far apart ??? Using ShtetlSeeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp you can find Chodecz. Chodecz populated place 52?24' N 19?02' E E M U G Poland 83.6 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E And you will find 16 Mielno locations. Mielno lake 52?25' N 18?22' E E M U G Poland 111.7 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno lake 52?51' N 18?05' E E M U G Poland 129.3 miles WNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno, Jezioro Mielnickie, M?hlen-See lake 53?30' N 20?16' E E M U G Poland 91.6 miles NNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 51?32' N 15?00' E E M U G Poland 260.3 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 51?48' N 14?39' E E M U G Poland 271.5 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 52?25' N 19?00' E E M U G Poland 85.2 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 52?30' N 17?01' E E M U G Poland 168.8 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 52?40' N 17?37' E E M U G Poland 145.2 miles WNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 52?41' N 17?53' E E M U G Poland 134.5 miles WNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 52?50' N 18?05' E E M U G Poland 128.9 miles WNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 53?05' N 14?46' E E M U G Poland 267.2 miles WNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno, M?hlen populated place 53?31' N 20?12' E E M U G Poland 93.6 miles NNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno, Mellen populated place 53?34' N 15?25' E E M U G Poland 249.6 miles WNW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno populated place 53?57' N 17?27' E E M U G Poland 188.2 miles NW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno, Grossm?llen, Grossm?llen ?ber K?slin, Mielno Koszali?skie populated place 54?16' N 16?03' E E M U G Poland 247.3 miles NW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Mielno, Mellin populated place 54?18' N 17?07' E E M U G Poland 213.8 miles NW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E And there are 4 Imielno locations. Imielno populated place 50?35' N 20?27' E E M U G Poland 117.5 miles SSW of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Imielno populated place 52?09' N 17?51' E E M U G Poland 133.5 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Imielno populated place 52?20' N 19?14' E E M U G Poland 74.8 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E Imielno populated place 52?29' N 17?22' E E M U G Poland 154.0 miles W of Warszawa 52?15' N 21?0' E If you do a search on location from Chodecz we find: Comparing distance from Chodecz we find the closest of the two towns to be - Mielno populated place 52?25' N 19?00' E E M U G Poland 1.8 miles NW of 52?24' N 19?02' E Imielno populated place 52?20' N 19?14' E E M U G Poland 9.6 miles ESE of 52?24' N 19?02' E So, it is possible that these are the two towns, and they are different but close to each other and to Chodecz. Please let me know if you need some help in using ShtetlSeeker. Good luck on your search. Joe in Texas From zglinka at wp.pl Fri Jan 16 17:26:15 2009 From: zglinka at wp.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?=) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:26:15 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497133b7354d92.58968027@wp.pl> "Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind of fruit. Did you search on Messtischblatter maps? Anna Zgli?ska ---------------------------------------------------- Pomna?amy Twoje pieni?dze - Dajemy 100% od r?ki! Zamieniamy 5 z? na 10 z? oraz 10 z? na 20 z? - Sprawd? i kliknij: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fwpmobi.pl%2Fekstrakasa.html&sid=615 From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Fri Jan 16 18:49:36 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:49:36 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: <497133b7354d92.58968027@wp.pl> References: <497133b7354d92.58968027@wp.pl> Message-ID: <7au4gf$1im5q0@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected location. In both cases it shows We~gierka (with the diacritic hook below the first e). My Polish / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian. Your application of the word is probably correct for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can be readily researched on the Internet using GOOGLE. See for example, "Polish Holiday Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part through GOOGLE Books). Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote: >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind of >fruit. > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps? > > >Anna Zgli?ska > From Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de Sat Jan 17 04:01:51 2009 From: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de (Jutta Dennerlein) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:01:51 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: <7au4gf$1im5q0@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <002a01c9789b$6232a500$3a7bfea9@JD> Jerry, I'm not sure if the results of an English Google research should be used to 'outnumber' the experience of a native speaker of Polish (Anna) ! The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has been published most times'. Especially not if the Google results mainly turn up 'Hungarian Plum Dumplings' and 'Hungarian Plum pox virus isolates'. In both cases 'Hungarian' does not relate to the Plum part of the term. My Polish-German dictionary shows two meanings for W?gierka: 1. Ungarin [Hungarian female], 2. Hauspflaume, Zwetschge. Zwetschgen are exactly the kind of plums which the Niedrunger grew and dried for selling as prunes. But I really would like to hear more about these Hungarian females settling in the swamps of the Vistula. Probably a matriarchy society - remains of the very old cultures of Europe ! Let's Google for it ... Sorry for the cynicism Jutta Dennerlein www.upstreamvistula.org > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On > Behalf Of Jerry Frank > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:50 AM > To: zglinka at wp.pl; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location > > > We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected > location. In both cases it shows We~gierka (with > the diacritic hook below the first e). My Polish > / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian. > > Your application of the word is probably correct > for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can > be readily researched on the Internet using > GOOGLE. See for example, "Polish Holiday > Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part > through GOOGLE Books). > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > > At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote: > >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind of > >fruit. > > > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps? > > > > > >Anna Zglinska > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sat Jan 17 06:47:40 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:47:40 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: <002a01c9789b$6232a500$3a7bfea9@JD> References: <7au4gf$1im5q0@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <002a01c9789b$6232a500$3a7bfea9@JD> Message-ID: <79pc8o$1tjicq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Jutta, Please understand that I did not dispute the interpretation of one for whom Polish is the native language. I simply reinterpreted the term in context of usage on the map. I also did not rely solely on GOOGLE. If you would have referred also to the on line Polish cookbook as I did, you would see that the word refers very specifically to the variety of plum known as the Hungarian plum. Specific quote: "We~gierki - Known in Polish as Hungarian plums, they are widely used in Polish cookery . . ." My dictionary also shows that the more generic Polish word for plum is either s~liwka, rodzynka, or gratka. And finally, I am also relying on the map itself which shows adjectival forms as follows (the mailing list might not see the italics but the last word in each term is on the map in italics): Kol. Wia~czemin Niemieckie Wia~czemin Polskie Wia~czemin We~gierki Wymysle Polskie Wymysle Niemieckie Kol. Nowosiodly We~gierki or perhaps Swiniary We~gierki Niemieckie = German Polskie = Polish No reason not to assume that We~gierki = Hungarian (in my opinion) While the italics on the map are not exclusive to the descriptive word, I believe that is the implication here. It is not necessary for the term to apply solely to "Hungarian females" as settlers in this area. The term used in my dictionary to generically describe Hungarians is We~gierski (note the s). Anyone who has studied Polish maps as I have will know even Polish map markers are inconsistent in agreeing on endings of many place names. Minor changes through dropping or adding a letter can make a significant difference in the meaning. Note that in other regions, especially around Lipno but in other places as well, there are place names given with the descriptive adder "Romunki" or similar which, according to well known Polish language expert Fred Hoffmann, implies Rumanian origins. Mr. Hoffmann is well respected in Poland and elsewhere as a Polish etymologist. I will forward the question to him for his interpretation without expressing my opinion. I will report his interpretation to the list and, if I am wrong, I will certainly apologize. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 05:01 AM 17/01/2009, Jutta Dennerlein wrote: >Jerry, > >I'm not sure if the results of an English Google research should be >used to 'outnumber' the experience of a native speaker of Polish >(Anna) ! >The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has >been published most times'. > >Especially not if the Google results mainly turn up 'Hungarian Plum >Dumplings' and 'Hungarian Plum pox virus isolates'. >In both cases 'Hungarian' does not relate to the Plum part of the >term. > >My Polish-German dictionary shows two meanings for W?gierka: 1. >Ungarin [Hungarian female], 2. Hauspflaume, Zwetschge. >Zwetschgen are exactly the kind of plums which the Niedrunger grew and >dried for selling as prunes. > >But I really would like to hear more about these Hungarian females >settling in the swamps of the Vistula. >Probably a matriarchy society - remains of the very old cultures of >Europe ! Let's Google for it ... > >Sorry for the cynicism > >Jutta Dennerlein >www.upstreamvistula.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On > > Behalf Of Jerry Frank > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:50 AM > > To: zglinka at wp.pl; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location > > > > > > We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected > > location. In both cases it shows We~gierka (with > > the diacritic hook below the first e). My Polish > > / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian. > > > > Your application of the word is probably correct > > for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can > > be readily researched on the Internet using > > GOOGLE. See for example, "Polish Holiday > > Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part > > through GOOGLE Books). > > > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > > > > > > > At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote: > > >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind >of > > >fruit. > > > > > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps? > > > > > > > > >Anna Zglinska > > > From textor_jan at hotmail.com Sat Jan 17 07:24:30 2009 From: textor_jan at hotmail.com (Jan Textor) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:24:30 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: <79pc8o$1tjicq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> References: <7au4gf$1im5q0@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <002a01c9789b$6232a500$3a7bfea9@JD> <79pc8o$1tjicq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: Jerry, I do not quite agree with you. As I read the map, the village name "We~gierki" is a noun, not an adjective, and We~gierki means (Hungarian) plums. I doubt that the village was settled by Hungarians. If you take a look into the SGGEE Pedigree Database, you will see that there are 32 individuals with German names born in We~gierka, and absolutely none with Hungarian sounding names. Maybe the colony was established near some plum orchards. :-) The adjectives are: for German = Niemiecki, niemiecka, niemieckie for Polish = Polski, polska, polskie for Hungarian = We~gierski, we~gierska, we~gierskie With regard to "Rumunki", which is exclusively used in the region around Lipno, I thought that we had agreed upon that it is derived from the German word "R?umung", which means a clearing (in woods or forests). Jan Textor > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:47:40 -0700> To: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location> > Jutta,> > Please understand that I did not dispute the > interpretation of one for whom Polish is the > native language. I simply reinterpreted the term > in context of usage on the map.> > I also did not rely solely on GOOGLE. If you > would have referred also to the on line Polish > cookbook as I did, you would see that the word > refers very specifically to the variety of plum > known as the Hungarian plum. Specific quote:> > "We~gierki - Known in Polish as Hungarian plums, > they are widely used in Polish cookery . . ."> > My dictionary also shows that the more generic > Polish word for plum is either s~liwka, rodzynka, or gratka.> > And finally, I am also relying on the map itself > which shows adjectival forms as follows (the > mailing list might not see the italics but the > last word in each term is on the map in italics):> > Kol. Wia~czemin Niemieckie> > Wia~czemin Polskie> > Wia~czemin We~gierki> > Wymysle Polskie> > Wymysle Niemieckie> > Kol. Nowosiodly We~gierki or perhaps Swiniary We~gierki> > Niemieckie = German> Polskie = Polish> No reason not to assume that We~gierki = Hungarian (in my opinion)> > While the italics on the map are not exclusive to > the descriptive word, I believe that is the implication here.> > It is not necessary for the term to apply solely > to "Hungarian females" as settlers in this > area. The term used in my dictionary to > generically describe Hungarians is We~gierski > (note the s). Anyone who has studied Polish maps > as I have will know even Polish map markers are > inconsistent in agreeing on endings of many place > names. Minor changes through dropping or adding > a letter can make a significant difference in the meaning.> > Note that in other regions, especially around > Lipno but in other places as well, there are > place names given with the descriptive adder > "Romunki" or similar which, according to well > known Polish language expert Fred Hoffmann, implies Rumanian origins.> > Mr. Hoffmann is well respected in Poland and > elsewhere as a Polish etymologist. I will > forward the question to him for his > interpretation without expressing my opinion. I > will report his interpretation to the list and, > if I am wrong, I will certainly apologize.> > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta> FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> > > > At 05:01 AM 17/01/2009, Jutta Dennerlein wrote:> >Jerry,> >> >I'm not sure if the results of an English Google research should be> >used to 'outnumber' the experience of a native speaker of Polish> >(Anna) !> >The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has> >been published most times'.> >> >Especially not if the Google results mainly turn up 'Hungarian Plum> >Dumplings' and 'Hungarian Plum pox virus isolates'.> >In both cases 'Hungarian' does not relate to the Plum part of the> >term.> >> >My Polish-German dictionary shows two meanings for W?gierka: 1.> >Ungarin [Hungarian female], 2. Hauspflaume, Zwetschge.> >Zwetschgen are exactly the kind of plums which the Niedrunger grew and> >dried for selling as prunes.> >> >But I really would like to hear more about these Hungarian females> >settling in the swamps of the Vistula.> >Probably a matriarchy society - remains of the very old cultures of> >Europe ! Let's Google for it ...> >> >Sorry for the cynicism> >> >Jutta Dennerlein> >www.upstreamvistula.org> >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org> > > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On> > > Behalf Of Jerry Frank> > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:50 AM> > > To: zglinka at wp.pl; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location> > >> > >> > > We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected> > > location. In both cases it shows We~gierka (with> > > the diacritic hook below the first e). My Polish> > > / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian.> > >> > > Your application of the word is probably correct> > > for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can> > > be readily researched on the Internet using> > > GOOGLE. See for example, "Polish Holiday> > > Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part> > > through GOOGLE Books).> > >> > >> > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta> > > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote:> > > >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind> >of> > > >fruit.> > > >> > > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps?> > > >> > > >> > > >Anna Zglinska> > > >> > _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sat Jan 17 07:59:34 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:59:34 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location In-Reply-To: References: <7au4gf$1im5q0@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <002a01c9789b$6232a500$3a7bfea9@JD> <79pc8o$1tjicq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <79p70j$1glv2i@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> My apologies to the list for bringing up an old inaccurate interpretation for the word Rumunki. Please ignore my references to Rumanian origins. I will wait for further confirmation from my expert regarding We~gierka. Jerry At 08:24 AM 17/01/2009, Jan Textor wrote: >Jerry, > >I do not quite agree with you. As I read the >map, the village name "We~gierki" is a noun, not >an adjective, and We~gierki means (Hungarian) >plums. I doubt that the village was settled by >Hungarians. If you take a look into the SGGEE >Pedigree Database, you will see that there are >32 individuals with German names born in >We~gierka, and absolutely none with Hungarian >sounding names. Maybe the colony was established near some plum orchards. :-) > >The adjectives are: >for German = Niemiecki, niemiecka, niemieckie >for Polish = Polski, polska, polskie >for Hungarian = We~gierski, we~gierska, we~gierskie > >With regard to "Rumunki", which is exclusively >used in the region around Lipno, I thought that >we had agreed upon that it is derived from the >German word "R?umung", which means a clearing (in woods or forests). > >Jan Textor > > > > > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:47:40 -0700 > > To: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location > > > > Jutta, > > > > Please understand that I did not dispute the > > interpretation of one for whom Polish is the > > native language. I simply reinterpreted the term > > in context of usage on the map. > > > > I also did not rely solely on GOOGLE. If you > > would have referred also to the on line Polish > > cookbook as I did, you would see that the word > > refers very specifically to the variety of plum > > known as the Hungarian plum. Specific quote: > > > > "We~gierki - Known in Polish as Hungarian plums, > > they are widely used in Polish cookery . . ." > > > > My dictionary also shows that the more generic > > Polish word for plum is either s~liwka, rodzynka, or gratka. > > > > And finally, I am also relying on the map itself > > which shows adjectival forms as follows (the > > mailing list might not see the italics but the > > last word in each term is on the map in italics): > > > > Kol. Wia~czemin Niemieckie > > > > Wia~czemin Polskie > > > > Wia~czemin We~gierki > > > > Wymysle Polskie > > > > Wymysle Niemieckie > > > > Kol. Nowosiodly We~gierki or perhaps Swiniary We~gierki > > > > Niemieckie = German > > Polskie = Polish > > No reason not to assume that We~gierki = Hungarian (in my opinion) > > > > While the italics on the map are not exclusive to > > the descriptive word, I believe that is the implication here. > > > > It is not necessary for the term to apply solely > > to "Hungarian females" as settlers in this > > area. The term used in my dictionary to > > generically describe Hungarians is We~gierski > > (note the s). Anyone who has studied Polish maps > > as I have will know even Polish map markers are > > inconsistent in agreeing on endings of many place > > names. Minor changes through dropping or adding > > a letter can make a significant difference in the meaning. > > > > Note that in other regions, especially around > > Lipno but in other places as well, there are > > place names given with the descriptive adder > > "Romunki" or similar which, according to well > > known Polish language expert Fred Hoffmann, implies Rumanian origins. > > > > Mr. Hoffmann is well respected in Poland and > > elsewhere as a Polish etymologist. I will > > forward the question to him for his > > interpretation without expressing my opinion. I > > will report his interpretation to the list and, > > if I am wrong, I will certainly apologize. > > > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > > > > > At 05:01 AM 17/01/2009, Jutta Dennerlein wrote: > > >Jerry, > > > > > >I'm not sure if the results of an English Google research should be > > >used to 'outnumber' the experience of a native speaker of Polish > > >(Anna) ! > > >The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has > > >been published most times'. > > > > > >Especially not if the Google results mainly turn up 'Hungarian Plum > > >Dumplings' and 'Hungarian Plum pox virus isolates'. > > >In both cases 'Hungarian' does not relate to the Plum part of the > > >term. > > > > > >My Polish-German dictionary shows two meanings for W?gierka: 1. > > >Ungarin [Hungarian female], 2. Hauspflaume, Zwetschge. > > >Zwetschgen are exactly the kind of plums which the Niedrunger grew and > > >dried for selling as prunes. > > > > > >But I really would like to hear more about these Hungarian females > > >settling in the swamps of the Vistula. > > >Probably a matriarchy society - remains of the very old cultures of > > >Europe ! Let's Google for it ... > > > > > >Sorry for the cynicism > > > > > >Jutta Dennerlein > > >www.upstreamvistula.org > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > > > > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On > > > > Behalf Of Jerry Frank > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:50 AM > > > > To: zglinka at wp.pl; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > > > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wegierka Location > > > > > > > > > > > > We have an 1837 map that shows it in the expected > > > > location. In both cases it shows We~gierka (with > > > > the diacritic hook below the first e). My Polish > > > > / English dictionary shows We~gierski = of Hungary or Hungarian. > > > > > > > > Your application of the word is probably correct > > > > for the Hungarian Plum, a type of plum that can > > > > be readily researched on the Internet using > > > > GOOGLE. See for example, "Polish Holiday > > > > Cookery" by Robert Strybel, Page 214 (available in part > > > > through GOOGLE Books). > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > > > > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:26 PM 16/01/2009, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?= wrote: > > > > >"Wegierki" is a plural form for polish plums. This is just a kind > > >of > > > > >fruit. > > > > > > > > > >Did you search on Messtischblatter maps? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Anna Zglinska > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca From otto at schienke.com Sat Jan 17 11:24:16 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:24:16 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] We~gierka Message-ID: <3A51CBA5-31D2-4861-83A7-7918A5E0BC69@schienke.com> Afternoon all, It will be interesting to see where this discovery process leads regarding the word usage. Anna Zgli?ska's comment and contribution was refreshing because it is a rare opportunity to hear opinions of one that is adept in their mother language. I look forward to hearing her on more subjects. I immediately tuned in to Jutta's comment, "The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has been published most times''. How true. We have only facts to sort, facts built on opinions. Especially 'dictionaries', volumes of opinions. A reality check is necessary most of the time. Jan with his linguistic preciseness is always appreciated. I also approve of Jerry's intuitive approach because I viewed the map he referenced and saw the same patterns he described employed by the cartographer of that particular map. . . I still have a hold on the gut feeling. . . I only offer a brief tale. For me there is a connection between Hungarians and plums. Draw your own opinions. One mile east of me where I lived on a farm as a boy lived a Hungarian family with the surname Baran'yai. They wouldn't roast bacon (szalona) over a fire-pit like like the other Hungarian family around the corner from them, (cultural difference between the 'landed' and serfs) instead they'd fry pork loin on a tin plate and drink hazi polinka, Hungarian plum brandy. The father, Julius, had an orchard of always heavily fruited plum trees when in season different from the purple ones that we raised for baking. They produced a special pale yellow, sweet, juicy plum which he harvested and mashed, placed into large vats to ferment, then pressed them and distilled the liquid, leaving him with an excellent plum brandy?Hazi Polinka. Tasty firewater. When old, Julius sold the farm. . . I bought the copper still. I still hanker to eat their yellow plums. The shores of cool waters on the Weichsel River would have been a great site to set up a still. Plum brandy has no ethnicity connected to it. . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From roseingram at shaw.ca Sat Jan 17 11:44:44 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:44:44 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] We~gierka References: <3A51CBA5-31D2-4861-83A7-7918A5E0BC69@schienke.com> Message-ID: <00d401c978dc$0bc492a0$6601a8c0@duocore> Otto, You mention "a special pale yellow, sweet, juicy plum" This sounds like the plums we grew in our orchard. It was known as 'green gage' plum. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Otto To: GPV List Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] We~gierka Afternoon all, It will be interesting to see where this discovery process leads regarding the word usage. Anna Zgli?ska's comment and contribution was refreshing because it is a rare opportunity to hear opinions of one that is adept in their mother language. I look forward to hearing her on more subjects. I immediately tuned in to Jutta's comment, "The truth is not the result of 'what most people think' or 'what has been published most times''. How true. We have only facts to sort, facts built on opinions. Especially 'dictionaries', volumes of opinions. A reality check is necessary most of the time. Jan with his linguistic preciseness is always appreciated. I also approve of Jerry's intuitive approach because I viewed the map he referenced and saw the same patterns he described employed by the cartographer of that particular map. . . I still have a hold on the gut feeling. . . I only offer a brief tale. For me there is a connection between Hungarians and plums. Draw your own opinions. One mile east of me where I lived on a farm as a boy lived a Hungarian family with the surname Baran'yai. They wouldn't roast bacon (szalona) over a fire-pit like like the other Hungarian family around the corner from them, (cultural difference between the 'landed' and serfs) instead they'd fry pork loin on a tin plate and drink hazi polinka, Hungarian plum brandy. The father, Julius, had an orchard of always heavily fruited plum trees when in season different from the purple ones that we raised for baking. They produced a special pale yellow, sweet, juicy plum which he harvested and mashed, placed into large vats to ferment, then pressed them and distilled the liquid, leaving him with an excellent plum brandy?Hazi Polinka. Tasty firewater. When old, Julius sold the farm. . . I bought the copper still. I still hanker to eat their yellow plums. The shores of cool waters on the Weichsel River would have been a great site to set up a still. Plum brandy has no ethnicity connected to it. . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From DrVbuzz at aol.com Sat Jan 17 14:01:57 2009 From: DrVbuzz at aol.com (DrVbuzz@aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:01:57 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1916 Canadian Census Message-ID: The 1916 Canadian Census records for three Provinces Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta are now available at the family search Pilot project site. Go to _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) 1. click on search records 2. click on Record Search Pilot 3. on the map, highlight Canada 4. near the bottom of the page click on 1916 Canadian Census 5. Search for your names. So far I've found many family names, except for the one I was so anxious to locate...... Victor Gess **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027) From My_Family at web.de Sat Jan 17 14:27:11 2009 From: My_Family at web.de (My_Family@web.de) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:27:11 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LACHMANN oo MANTEI APPEL oo MANTEI USA Canada Message-ID: <532049458@web.de> Hello I try to find out further details to my great aunts who immigrated to Canada and their families Lydia MANTEI * 1882 married in 1902 or before in Volhynia Andreas LACHMANN* 1877 In Volhynia they have 3 childs: Emil * 1902 Bertha * 1904 Odelia * 1906 The family immigrated via Boston in Oct 1907 to the USA than to Steinbach, Manitoba Canada approx 1917 they tried to back to the USA to visit their brother in law Ferdinand APPEL. But they were not allowed to immigrate to the USA. Ferdinand APPEL * 1881 and Julianna MANTEI * 1888 ( maybe his wife already at this time ) immigrated to Canada in 1920. I do not have further information to this family Maybe someone has an idea or facts to those families Thks for help Ansgar Mantey __________________________________________________________________ Deutschlands gr??te Online-Videothek schenkt Ihnen 12.000 Videos!* http://entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/maxdome/index.html From My_family at web.de Sat Jan 17 15:23:41 2009 From: My_family at web.de (Ansgar Mantey) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:23:41 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil Message-ID: <8904D5536CF9435F866C7B671C0FAC65@acmc3okokzif8r> Hello I am looking for further information Karoline MANTEI * 1895 in Volhynia. A narrtive of my family told me that my grandfather visit his sister approx at the beginning of the thirties maybe in Santa Catherina Unfortunately nobody remembers the name of husband Is a real difficult exercise to get further information. Maybe someone has an idea ??? Thks for help Ansgar Mantey From colnels at telus.net Sat Jan 17 15:35:09 2009 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:35:09 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LACHMANN oo MANTEI APPEL oo MANTEI USA Canada In-Reply-To: <532049458@web.de> References: <532049458@web.de> Message-ID: <003001c978fc$3c86aac0$b5940040$@net> Hello Ansgar: Is this Ferdinand Appel born 27 Feb 1881 in Mariandorf, father Johann, mother Juliane Keller? Was this in Volhynia around Zhitomir or in the south by Odessa? Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of My_Family at web.de Sent: January-17-09 3:27 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LACHMANN oo MANTEI APPEL oo MANTEI USA Canada Hello I try to find out further details to my great aunts who immigrated to Canada and their families Lydia MANTEI * 1882 married in 1902 or before in Volhynia Andreas LACHMANN* 1877 In Volhynia they have 3 childs: Emil * 1902 Bertha * 1904 Odelia * 1906 The family immigrated via Boston in Oct 1907 to the USA than to Steinbach, Manitoba Canada approx 1917 they tried to back to the USA to visit their brother in law Ferdinand APPEL. But they were not allowed to immigrate to the USA. Ferdinand APPEL * 1881 and Julianna MANTEI * 1888 ( maybe his wife already at this time ) immigrated to Canada in 1920. I do not have further information to this family Maybe someone has an idea or facts to those families Thks for help Ansgar Mantey __________________________________________________________________ Deutschlands gr??te Online-Videothek schenkt Ihnen 12.000 Videos!* http://entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/maxdome/index.html _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1897 - Release Date: 16/01/2009 3:09 PM From tyrafarms at kootenaywireless.com Sat Jan 17 20:04:19 2009 From: tyrafarms at kootenaywireless.com (ken sommerfeld) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:04:19 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1916 Canadian Census References: Message-ID: Victor Thank you for the link. I found some relatives from the maternal side of my family as well as some of my wife's. Ken Sommerfeld "In the absence of clearly defined goals we become strangely loyal to performing daily trivia until we ultimately become enslaved by it." Robert Heinlein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1916 Canadian Census > The 1916 Canadian Census records for three Provinces Manitoba, > Saskatchewan > and Alberta are now available at the family search Pilot project site. > > Go to _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) > 1. click on search records > 2. click on Record Search Pilot > 3. on the map, highlight Canada > 4. near the bottom of the page click on 1916 Canadian Census > 5. Search for your names. > > So far I've found many family names, except for the one I was so anxious > to > locate...... > > Victor Gess > **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's > capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Hannes.Werner at online.de Sun Jan 18 13:54:05 2009 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:54:05 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] birth-/bapt. index Lublin References: <8904D5536CF9435F866C7B671C0FAC65@acmc3okokzif8r> Message-ID: <008501c979b7$49218780$f800a8c0@end2000> Hallo Mitforscher, Ich wei? nicht ob bereits bekannt: auf http://www.luteranie.pl/lublin/archiwum/biuletyn/b1.pdf ist ein Geburts-/Taufregister der ev.-augsb. Kirche Lublin 1810-1867 vorhanden. Es gibt viele bekannte Namen aus Mittelpolen ! Dear listmembers, don't know whether ist is already published: on http://www.luteranie.pl/lublin/archiwum/biuletyn/b1.pdf you'll find an index of births/bapt. in ev.-augsb. parish of Lublin. Hannes W. Germany From Hannes.Werner at online.de Sun Jan 18 13:58:49 2009 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:58:49 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] birth-/bapt. index Lublin References: Message-ID: <00a001c979b7$f22f4510$f800a8c0@end2000> Hallo Mitforscher, Ich wei? nicht ob bereits bekannt: auf http://www.luteranie.pl/lublin/archiwum/biuletyn/b1.pdf ist ein Geburts-/Taufregister der ev.-augsb. Kirche Lublin 1810-1867 vorhanden. Es gibt viele bekannte Namen aus Mittelpolen ! Dear listmembers, don't know whether ist is already published: on http://www.luteranie.pl/lublin/archiwum/biuletyn/b1.pdf you'll find an index of births/bapt. in ev.-augsb. parish of Lublin. Hannes W. Germany From zglinka at wp.pl Sun Jan 18 15:34:19 2009 From: zglinka at wp.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:34:19 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] More about plums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4973bc7b61f821.74412676@wp.pl> Hi ;) More about plums: In Niedrunger villages (lower Vistula) people makes plum jam- fried in copper kettles, stired with very long wooden stirrer. This technic of frying plum jam spread along Vistula River in the end of XIX and begining of XX century. This custom survived- and now plum jam is on European Union Traditional Food List ;) http://www.minrol.gov.pl/DesktopModules/Announcement/ViewAnnouncement.aspx?ModuleID=1407&TabOrgID=1523&LangId=0&AnnouncementId=4739&ModulePositionId=1943 Sometimes reality seems to be peculiar, doesn't it? Anna Zgli?ska P.S. Dear Jutta, thank you for explaining people again my short answer . I'm still waiting for an email from you ;) ---------------------------------------------------- Pomna?amy Twoje pieni?dze - Dajemy 100% od r?ki! Zamieniamy 5 z? na 10 z? oraz 10 z? na 20 z? - Sprawd? i kliknij: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fwpmobi.pl%2Fekstrakasa.html&sid=615 From rlyster at telusplanet.net Sun Jan 18 20:06:29 2009 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:06:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] polish words Message-ID: <15995003.15093371232337989180.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090118/d20bf154/attachment.html From otto at schienke.com Sun Jan 18 22:39:07 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:39:07 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] =?iso-8859-1?q?Plums_=3D_Lekv=E1r!?= Message-ID: <2A7B0A20-DA52-45AE-82C8-B9009DBAA518@schienke.com> Thank you Anna, This is getting better! Copper kettles! My neighbor who distilled the polinka also cooked "LEKVAR", a real thick prune butter (like a paste) for baking pastries. (I cannot remember the Hungarian name for the pastries, eating 50 or so would satisfy) (I bought his large copper kettle also) Lekv?r cooking is a Hungarian ritual just like drinking polinka. (the two probably go well together) See the Wikipedia article on Lekv?r: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lekvar Now how did the custom get to the Wisla/Vistula/Weichsel valley? Why a regional custom only? Was it part of a past culture of someone? How did it begin? An Austrian/Hungarian settler? Why is the cartographer calling attention to it? The words of the American poet, Robert Frost, ?We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and knows? From: Anna Zgli?ska Date: Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:34 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] More about plums To: ger-poland-volhynia Hi ;) More about plums: In Niedrunger villages (lower Vistula) people makes plum jam- fried in copper kettles, stired with very long wooden stirrer. This technic of frying plum jam spread along Vistula River in the end of XIX and begining of XX century. . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Jan 19 00:38:31 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:38:31 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] polish words In-Reply-To: <15995003.15093371232337989180.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> References: <15995003.15093371232337989180.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> Message-ID: <49743C07.6040601@ish.de> Rita Lyster schrieb: > > The Polish - German dictionary I have does not translate these words: > > (they are from a Military record book of my Grandfather) > > Wyksztalcenia cywilne > Hello Rita, 'Wyksztalcenia' is the genitive of 'wykstalcenie' = education; 'wykstalcenie cywilne' = civil education > > stan rodzinny > stan rodzinny = civil status > > wcielenia > again a genitive; translation depending on the context. The dictionary says: wcielenie = incarnation, incorporation, embodiment. i.e. 'nie do wcelenia' = not to incorporate. By the way: http://portalwiedzy.onet.pl/tlumacz.html?tr=ang-auto is a quite good Polish online dictionary. G?nther From hhowell at lakedalelink.net Wed Jan 21 07:24:50 2009 From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net (hhowell) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:24:50 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] map location Message-ID: <6A915B0870464E0EA1BA5B86C9F9C01C@HGHOWELL> Can someone help me locate the location of DOBRZYNKOW, Poland? The village was mentioned in Ellis Island records. It should be near Gabin and Swiniary. Herschuel From duesterhoeft at gmx.de Wed Jan 21 07:47:28 2009 From: duesterhoeft at gmx.de (duesterhoeft@gmx.de) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:47:28 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] map location In-Reply-To: <6A915B0870464E0EA1BA5B86C9F9C01C@HGHOWELL> References: <6A915B0870464E0EA1BA5B86C9F9C01C@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <49774390.1090909@gmx.de> hhowell schrieb am 21.01.2009 16:24: > Can someone help me locate the location of DOBRZYNKOW, Poland? The > village was mentioned in Ellis Island records. It should be near > Gabin and Swiniary. There are multiple places called Gabin and Swiniary. I assume you mean the ones near Plock. There is a Dobrzykow north of Gabin: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=10&ll=52.4667,19.75&spn=0.79496,1.439209&om=1 Stefan From GHBoehm at ish.de Wed Jan 21 07:54:26 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:54:26 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] map location In-Reply-To: <6A915B0870464E0EA1BA5B86C9F9C01C@HGHOWELL> References: <6A915B0870464E0EA1BA5B86C9F9C01C@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <49774532.2000906@ish.de> hhowell schrieb: > Can someone help me locate the location of DOBRZYNKOW, Poland? The village was mentioned in Ellis Island records. It should be near Gabin and Swiniary. > Herschuel Hello Herschuel, this seems to be Dobrzyk?w, app 8 km north of Gabin and same distance from the center of P?ock. G?nther From hhowell at lakedalelink.net Wed Jan 21 08:07:51 2009 From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net (hhowell) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:07:51 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MAP LOCATION Message-ID: <2E31B64C9D334A18A5A263B7060F6AAE@HGHOWELL> Thanks G?nther and Bronwyn Klimach for your reply. Herschuel From michal_marciniak at yahoo.com Thu Jan 22 10:17:07 2009 From: michal_marciniak at yahoo.com (Michal J. Marciniak) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:17:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] polish words In-Reply-To: <15995003.15093371232337989180.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> Message-ID: <549748.98407.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Rita, Wcielenie - enlistment Michal J, Marciniak --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Rita Lyster wrote: From: Rita Lyster Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] polish words To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 5:06 AM The Polish - German dictionary I have does not translate these words:(they are from a Military record book of my Grandfather)?Wyksztalcenia cywilnestan rodzinnywcielenia?Rita Lyster _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From rhundt67 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 23 13:48:09 2009 From: rhundt67 at yahoo.com (Renee Hundt) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:48:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Prisoner Camp near Lodz Message-ID: <902086.39514.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In Dec 1947, my husbands grandmother (German) was falsely accused of a crime by a Polish farmer (revenge) and she was sent to a Russian Prison Camp near Lodz.? She was there for 10 months when her eldest son convinced the Russian's to release her before being shipped via cattle cars to East Germany.? Anyone have any information, possible name of such a prison?? ? ? From rhundt67 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 23 13:55:46 2009 From: rhundt67 at yahoo.com (Renee Hundt) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:55:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER Message-ID: <190503.44082.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Trying to get any information possible about Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER, b. abt. 1880 in the Volhynian area, Elizabetpol most likely.? Married Michael Hundt.?? Their children were Karl, Olga and Efrom (Leokadia Knull).? Michael was killed and Ottilie remarried a WEGNER and had 2 more children:? Reinhold & Leokadia. Any info.? I did get copies of a records in the past from someone on here for Michael and his birth, his parents and so forth. From hgillespie at rogers.com Fri Jan 23 14:14:07 2009 From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:14:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LACHMANN oo MANTEI APPEL oo MANTEI USA Canada In-Reply-To: <003001c978fc$3c86aac0$b5940040$@net> Message-ID: <233819.65810.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My grandfather EMIL BETHKE's mother, AUGUSTE SCHULZ m. an AUGUST BETHKE ca. 1890s (My grandfather was born 1893) and when AUGUST BETHKE died - she married a LACHMANN. He was a widower and his 3 children went to the USA - then he followed when his wife AUGUSTE SCHULZ/BETHKE/LACHMANN died in 1919. There are LACHMANN names in the Benton Harbor, Michigan area acc. to the census and some other sources I had - a church register which someone had transcribed. Check the www.sggee.org site for records of St. Matthew's Church in Benton Harbor Also, the MANTAI name comes up in the Benton Harbor and Niles, Michigan area. A distant relative - ADOLF BAIERS of Benton Harbor area was married to a CAROLINE BRENNER - and her parents were FREDERICK and PAULINE MANTAI - although they did not immigrate to the USA - they did have other MANTAI family in the Benton Harbor area. My BAIER family came from Boruwka and Solomka/Friedrichsdorf area - not far from Rowno - so the parish would have been Zhitomir. Helen --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Nelson Itterman wrote: > From: Nelson Itterman > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LACHMANN oo MANTEI APPEL oo MANTEI USA Canada > To: My_Family at web.de, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Received: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:35 PM > Hello Ansgar: > Is this Ferdinand Appel born 27 Feb 1881 in Mariandorf, > father Johann, > mother Juliane Keller? > Was this in Volhynia around Zhitomir or in the south by > Odessa? > Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On > Behalf Of > My_Family at web.de > Sent: January-17-09 3:27 PM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] LACHMANN oo MANTEI APPEL oo > MANTEI USA Canada > > > Hello > > I try to find out further details to my great aunts who > immigrated to Canada > and their families > > Lydia MANTEI * 1882 married in 1902 or before in Volhynia > Andreas LACHMANN* > 1877 In Volhynia they have 3 childs: > Emil * 1902 > Bertha * 1904 > Odelia * 1906 > > The family immigrated via Boston in Oct 1907 to the USA > than to Steinbach, > Manitoba Canada > > approx 1917 they tried to back to the USA to visit their > brother in law > Ferdinand APPEL. > > But they were not allowed to immigrate to the USA. > > > Ferdinand APPEL * 1881 and Julianna MANTEI * 1888 ( maybe > his wife already > at this time ) immigrated to Canada in 1920. > I do not have further information to this family > > Maybe someone has an idea or facts to those families > > Thks for help > > Ansgar Mantey > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Deutschlands gr??te Online-Videothek schenkt Ihnen 12.000 > Videos!* > http://entertainment.web.de/de/entertainment/maxdome/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for > German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this > incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1897 - Release > Date: 16/01/2009 > 3:09 PM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gmason001 at comcast.net Fri Jan 23 15:14:54 2009 From: gmason001 at comcast.net (Greg Mason) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:14:54 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Prisoner Camp near Lodz In-Reply-To: <902086.39514.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <902086.39514.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <357ADB9D-B3F6-4078-AC76-694995965F0B@comcast.net> Renee: Sorry that I cannot give you specific name and location of such camp; there were hundreds of such camps. But I do recommend two books which may help you to narrow your search: 1) "An Eye for an Eye" by John Sack, published 1993 by Basic Books. 2)"A Terrible Revenge" by Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, published by St. Martins Press, 1993. Best wishes, Greg Mason On Jan 23, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Renee Hundt wrote: > In Dec 1947, my husbands grandmother (German) was falsely accused of > a crime by a Polish farmer (revenge) and she was sent to a Russian > Prison Camp near Lodz. She was there for 10 months when her eldest > son convinced the Russian's to release her before being shipped via > cattle cars to East Germany. Anyone have any information, possible > name of such a prison? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Fri Jan 23 17:36:48 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Obit: Pastor Hugo Karl Schmidt Message-ID: <79pc8o$201bcq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> The following obituary was received from Gerhard Koening - translation by myself. Original German text follows below. --------------------------------- Former Volhynian Pastor, Hugo Karl Schmidt died Jan. 19, 2009 at the Senior's Residence in B?chenbach in his 99th year. He was born November 22, 1909 in Lodz where he later attended the Lutheran pastoral seminary. He studied German at Leipzig and theology in Erlangen. In 1935 he was called to be Vicar in Rozyszcze, Volhynia. After his ordination November 17, 1935, he served as Pastor in Tuczyn from 1936-1939. He visited the numerous German colonies in his parish on a regular basis. In September of 1939, like many other teachers and clergymen, he was arrested and brought to the concentration camp at Bereza Kartuska [near Brest in Belarus]. A few weeks after his liberation, he came to the Warthegau and became pastor at Rypin. In 1942 he was appointed as Superintendent. In 1944, the Schmidt family moved to Erlangen. After the war, Schmidt was the first pastor from the eastern provinces to be accepted by the State Church. He took up his duties as pastor in Roth. He remained there until 1965 and then moved to Katzwang. In 1975 he retired from there to Wolkersdorf and later moved to the Senior's Home in B?chenbach. Hugo Karl Schmidt is of the generation that has good memories of him as pastor. His pastoral care is praised. "The ordinary ordinarily made.", was his motto. Pastor Hugo Karl Schmidt was the initiator, co-founder and for many years honorary chairman of the Historical Society Volhynia eV. The funeral will take place Saturday, January 24 at 12:30 in Roth at the cemetery of Kreuzkirche. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca ---------------------------------- >Der fr?here wolhynische Pastor Hugo Karl Schmidt >ist am 19.1.2009 im Seniorenhof B?chenbach im Alter von 99 Jahren verstorben. > >Er wurde am 22.11.1909 in Lodz geboren, wo er >sp?ter auch das evangelische Priesterseminar >besuchte. Er studierte Germanistik in Leipzig >und in Erlangen Theologie. Im Jahre 1935 wurde >er als Vikar nach Rozyszcze in Wolhynien >berufen. Nach seiner Ordinierung am 17.11.1935 >war er von 1936 bis 1939 Pastor in Tuczyn. > >Die vielen deutschen Kolonien seines Kirchspiels >besuchte er in regelm??igen Abst?nden. Im >September 1939 wurde er, wie viele andere Lehrer >und Geistliche, verhaftet und ins Konzentrationslager Bereza Kartuska gebracht. > >Wenige Wochen nach seiner Befreiung kam er in >den Warthegau und wurde Pastor in Rypin. 1942 >erfolgte die Berufung zum Superintendenten. 1944 >zog die Familie Schmidt nach Erlangen. Nach dem >Krieg war Schmidt der erste Pfarrer aus den >?stliche Provinzen, der in die Landeskirche >?bernommen wurde. Er trat seinen Dienst als >Pfarrer in Roth an. Er blieb bis 1965 und >wechselte dann nach Katzwang, bis er 1975 im >Ruhestand nach Wolkersdorf und sp?ter in den Seniorenhof B?chenbach zog. > >Hugo Karl Schmidt ist der Generation, die er als >Pfarrer begleitet hat, in guter Erinnerung. >Seine Sorgfalt in der Seelsorge wird ger?hmt: >"Das Ordentliche ordentlich machen", war sein Motto. > >Pastor Hugo Karl Schmidt war Initiator, >Mitbegr?nder und viele Jahre Ehrenvorsitzender >des Historischen Vereins Wolhynien e.V.. > >Die Beisetzung findet am Samstag, 24. Januar, >12.30 Uhr in Roth auf dem Friedhof an der Kreuzkirche statt. > > >Gerhard K?nig >Historischer Verein Wolhynien e.V. > From benovich at imt.net Sat Jan 24 10:58:43 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:58:43 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation Message-ID: <001a01c97e55$c7996a90$0500a8c0@richard01> I have in hand a recently published article on the ethnic Germans in the Lublin area during World War I. It is written in Polish. Might there be anyone in this group who is willing to read this for me and provide at least a rough translation for the sheer joy of learning something new? It is 18 pages long. Please reply privately. Many thanks, Dick Benert -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1912 - Release Date: 1/23/2009 6:54 PM From zglinka at wp.pl Sat Jan 24 13:19:37 2009 From: zglinka at wp.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Anna_Zgli=F1ska?=) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:19:37 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 4. Re: Russian Prisoner Camp near Lodz (Greg Mason) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497b85e9cac2a9.13601101@wp.pl> Hello... There was a camp in Ruda Pabianicka. The Foundation "Memory" made an ehxumation there in 2007/2008. I'm not an expert, this was the only camp I could find. Number of those camps was not bigger than the number of german concentration camps. Be careful with literature, ok? As far as I remember those books that Mason recomended you have bad reviews in academic circles. There is a rule in history - we can claim that something is true when we had at least two independent sources of information, f.eg. archives and newspaper, newspaper and report etc. Anna > In Dec 1947, my husbands grandmother (German) was falsely accused of a > crime by a Polish farmer (revenge) and she was sent to a Russian Prison > Camp near Lodz.? She was there for 10 months when her eldest son > convinced the Russian's to release her before being shipped via cattle > cars to East Germany.? Anyone have any information, possible name of > such a prison?? > > > ? ? > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:14:54 -0500 > From: Greg Mason > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Prisoner Camp near Lodz > To: rhundt67 at yahoo.com > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <357ADB9D-B3F6-4078-AC76-694995965F0B at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Renee: Sorry that I cannot give you specific name and location of > such camp; there were hundreds of such camps. But I do recommend two > books which may help you to narrow your search: 1) "An Eye for an > Eye" by John Sack, published 1993 by Basic Books. 2)"A Terrible > Revenge" by Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, published by St. Martins Press, > 1993. > Best wishes, Greg Mason > > On Jan 23, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Renee Hundt wrote: > > > In Dec 1947, my husbands grandmother (German) was falsely accused of > > a crime by a Polish farmer (revenge) and she was sent to a Russian > > Prison Camp near Lodz. She was there for 10 months when her eldest > > son convinced the Russian's to release her before being shipped via > > cattle cars to East Germany. Anyone have any information, possible > > name of such a prison? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:58:43 -0700 > From: "Richard Benert" > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation > To: "SGGEE Mail List" > Message-ID: <001a01c97e55$c7996a90$0500a8c0 at richard01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have in hand a recently published article on the ethnic Germans in the > Lublin area during World War I. It is written in Polish. Might there be > anyone in this group who is willing to read this for me and provide at > least > a rough translation for the sheer joy of learning something new? It is 18 > pages long. Please reply privately. Many thanks, > Dick Benert > -------------- next part -------------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1912 - Release Date: > 1/23/2009 6:54 PM > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 68, Issue 35 > *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------- Kate Winslet i Leonardo DiCaprio znowu razem na ekranie! DROGA DO SZCZ??CIA - w kinach od 30 stycznia. Zobacz zwiastun: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fszczescie.html&sid=624 From sonnal at shaw.ca Mon Jan 26 15:40:30 2009 From: sonnal at shaw.ca (Leo S) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:40:30 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of church records for Matyldow Message-ID: <7E7AD6D0-81A2-4BCF-9F3D-8688E671517E@shaw.ca> Family lore is that my great grandfather Johann Daniel Sonnenburg was born 1844 in village of Matyldow, I want to locate church documents to confirm this information. However, I have located three Matyldow villages and would like to know in which churches the birth records would most likely be found for each of the villages. 1/ Matyldow (Jerry Franks Maps K & L) located near lake Jez Zdworskie South of Plock, East of Gostynin, NW of Gabin. 2/ Matyldow (Jerry Franks Map L) located SE of Ilow, NE of Lowicz, W of Sochaczew 3/ Matyldow (Jerry Franks Map C Luck Region) located N of Torczyn, NW of Torczyn, SW of Chorochoryn. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Leo Sonnenberg From roseingram at shaw.ca Mon Jan 26 21:25:49 2009 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:25:49 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of church records for Matyldow References: <7E7AD6D0-81A2-4BCF-9F3D-8688E671517E@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <017201c9803f$b7023540$6601a8c0@duocore> Leo, Where and when was Johann Daniel Sonnenberg married? Where was your grandfather born? This information may help us help you. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: Leo S To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Location of church records for Matyldow Family lore is that my great grandfather Johann Daniel Sonnenburg was born 1844 in village of Matyldow, I want to locate church documents to confirm this information. However, I have located three Matyldow villages and would like to know in which churches the birth records would most likely be found for each of the villages. 1/ Matyldow (Jerry Franks Maps K & L) located near lake Jez Zdworskie South of Plock, East of Gostynin, NW of Gabin. 2/ Matyldow (Jerry Franks Map L) located SE of Ilow, NE of Lowicz, W of Sochaczew 3/ Matyldow (Jerry Franks Map C Luck Region) located N of Torczyn, NW of Torczyn, SW of Chorochoryn. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Leo Sonnenberg _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Hannes.Werner at online.de Tue Jan 27 11:11:50 2009 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:11:50 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER References: <190503.44082.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01bc01c980b3$1c6481e0$f800a8c0@end2000> Hi Renee, found by chance just this afternoon at states-archive: Hund, Karl living at Wonda-Wola (around 1939/40) *05.12.1907 Micha(e)low, Krs. Wladimir Wolynsk married 16.09.1930 (poss. at Wladimir Wolynsk) Wacker, Olga *27.08.1908 Jagwigow/Wladimir Wolynsk 5 children: Elsa, *08.06.1931 Wanda-Wola Gertraud, *26.08.1933 " Helmut, *30.11.1935 " Adele, *13.05.1938 " , + 10.01.1940 Chemnitz/Germany Willi, *16.11.1939 " parents: Michael HUNDT, * born ?Jadwigow ?, +1914 "im Felde" (as soldier during war) Ottilie WINKLER, * ?Michaelowka? Jakob WACKER, *03.12.1881 Jadwigow ? Lydia MANTEI, * ? at Wysoki?, *14.02.1930 Wanda-Wola Fridrich WACKER, an ancestor of Jakob, emigrated from the area of Petrikau/Poland to Volhynia Daniel Mantei, an uncle of Karl, emigrated to US in 1912. Source: DAI documents, "sippenkundliche Frageb?gen" of Karl Hundt, author is Olga Hund nee. WACKER You see: residence was not Elisabethpol, but Wladimir-Wolynsk in the real west of Volynia. There are some other Hund(t) and WINKLER, the ancestors came from Petrikau and Radom gouvernements. Hannes Werner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Renee Hundt" To: Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:55 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER Trying to get any information possible about Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER, b. abt. 1880 in the Volhynian area, Elizabetpol most likely. Married Michael Hundt. Their children were Karl, Olga and Efrom (Leokadia Knull). Michael was killed and Ottilie remarried a WEGNER and had 2 more children: Reinhold & Leokadia. Any info. I did get copies of a records in the past from someone on here for Michael and his birth, his parents and so forth. _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Tue Jan 27 12:17:33 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:17:33 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER In-Reply-To: <01bc01c980b3$1c6481e0$f800a8c0@end2000> References: <190503.44082.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <01bc01c980b3$1c6481e0$f800a8c0@end2000> Message-ID: Just to clarify the comment regarding location of Elizabetpol, it was only 3 or 4 km from Wanda Wola. so the information is a perfect match.? In fact Jadwigow is also within a few km of this group of villages.? Wysoki and Michaelowka are a little further to the east from there. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Hannes Werner Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:05 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER To: rhundt67 at yahoo.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Hi Renee, > > found by chance just this afternoon at states-archive: > > Hund, Karl > living at Wonda-Wola (around 1939/40) > > *05.12.1907 Micha(e)low, Krs. Wladimir Wolynsk > married 16.09.1930 (poss. at Wladimir Wolynsk) > Wacker, Olga > *27.08.1908 Jagwigow/Wladimir Wolynsk > 5 children: > Elsa, *08.06.1931 Wanda-Wola > Gertraud, *26.08.1933??? " > Helmut, *30.11.1935?????? " > Adele, *13.05.1938?????? > "????????? , + > 10.01.1940 Chemnitz/Germany > Willi, *16.11.1939??????? " > > parents: > Michael HUNDT, * born ?Jadwigow ?, +1914 "im Felde" (as soldier > during war) > Ottilie WINKLER, * ?Michaelowka? > Jakob WACKER, *03.12.1881 Jadwigow ? > Lydia MANTEI, * ? at Wysoki?, *14.02.1930 Wanda-Wola > > Fridrich WACKER, an ancestor of Jakob, emigrated from the area of > Petrikau/Poland to Volhynia > > Daniel Mantei, an uncle of Karl, emigrated to US in 1912. > > Source: DAI documents, "sippenkundliche Frageb?gen" of Karl Hundt, > > author is Olga Hund nee. WACKER > > You see: residence was not Elisabethpol, but Wladimir-Wolynsk in > the real > west of Volynia. > > There are some other Hund(t) and WINKLER, the ancestors came > from Petrikau > and Radom gouvernements. > > Hannes Werner > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Renee Hundt" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:55 PM > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ottilie / Ottilea WINKLER > > > Trying to get any information possible about Ottilie / Ottilea > WINKLER, b. > abt. 1880 in the Volhynian area, Elizabetpol most likely. > Married Michael > Hundt. Their children were Karl, Olga and Efrom (Leokadia > Knull). Michael > was killed and Ottilie remarried a WEGNER and had 2 more > children: Reinhold > & Leokadia. > > Any info. I did get copies of a records in the past from someone > on here for > Michael and his birth, his parents and so forth. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From Ranger25 at ntlworld.com Wed Jan 28 04:28:20 2009 From: Ranger25 at ntlworld.com (Larry Dinter) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:28:20 -0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] re;Info on Josefinnendorf Settlement Message-ID: <4D983545DE84414B8813107CD16B0907@LarryPC> Dear Listers, Being new to this game,don't know where to start,and wander if someone could direct me how I can get more info on a small Settlement named Josefinnendorf and its settlers in Kreis Rawa Ruska (pres West Ukraine) I thank you,Larry Dinter. From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Jan 28 06:03:42 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:03:42 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] re;Info on Josefinnendorf Settlement In-Reply-To: <4D983545DE84414B8813107CD16B0907@LarryPC> References: <4D983545DE84414B8813107CD16B0907@LarryPC> Message-ID: <79pc8o$21k9ut@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Larry, The Rawa Ruska region was in former Galicia, part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. If you are looking for Germans there, your best English language resource will be http://www.galiziengermandescendants.org/ Some of our members have general experience with Galicia research so you may also get some other responses to this message. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 05:28 AM 28/01/2009, Larry Dinter wrote: >Dear Listers, >Being new to this game,don't know where to start,and wander if >someone could direct me how I can get more info on a small >Settlement named Josefinnendorf and its settlers in Kreis Rawa Ruska >(pres West Ukraine) >I thank you,Larry Dinter. From l.neighbour at sasktel.net Wed Jan 28 09:15:27 2009 From: l.neighbour at sasktel.net (Lois Neighbour) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:15:27 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] genealogy program Message-ID: <498092AF.1090501@sasktel.net> Hi, I have a friend that is looking for a genealogy program that uses symbols for birth, marriage, burials and deaths. I have seen some German records like this but don't know what program was used. My friend is looking for one like this as she is going to be sharing information with other family members that do not speak English or write English. Thanks for any help. Lois From rhundt67 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 13:00:22 2009 From: rhundt67 at yahoo.com (Renee Hundt) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:00:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lydia Mantei??? Message-ID: <507751.38287.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> *Found this message in the listserve archives -* /I try to find out further details to my great aunts who />/ immigrated to Canada />/ and their families />/ />/ Lydia MANTEI * 1882 married in 1902 or before in Volhynia />/ Andreas LACHMANN* />/ 1877 In Volhynia they have 3 childs: />/ Emil * 1902 />/ Bertha * 1904 />/ Odelia * 1906 />/ />/ The family immigrated via Boston in Oct 1907 to the USA />/ than to Steinbach, />/ Manitoba Canada />/ />/ approx 1917 they tried to back to ?the USA to visit their />/ brother in law />/ Ferdinand APPEL. />/ />/ But they were not allowed to immigrate to the USA. />/ />/ />/ Ferdinand APPEL * 1881 and Julianna MANTEI * 1888 ( maybe />/ his wife already />/ at this time ) immigrated to Canada in 1920. />/ I do not have further information to this family />/ />/ Maybe someone has an idea or facts to those families />/ />/ Thks for help />/ />/ Ansgar Mantey /*I need to wonder if the Lydia Mantei mentioned here (that seems to match information provided to me recently from Jerry Frank) is the same from my HUNDT/ KNULL / WINKLER / WACKER LINE. ? Jerry stated that a Lydia Mantei married Jakob Wacker (Wanda-Wola) *abt. 1882; could she have been married to Andreas; Andreas died and Lydia remarried .......had Olga Wacker in 1908? Any proof of this being the case? Renee * ? From kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu Thu Jan 29 18:21:39 2009 From: kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu (Kenneth Browne) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:21:39 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lydia Mantei??? In-Reply-To: <507751.38287.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <507751.38287.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49826433.6050508@alumni.umass.edu> Renee Hundt wrote: > *Found this message in the listserve archives -* > > > > > Jerry stated that a Lydia Mantei married Jakob Wacker (Wanda-Wola) > *abt. 1882; could she have been married to Andreas; Andreas died and > Lydia remarried .......had Olga Wacker in 1908? > > > > Any proof of this being the case? > > Andreas' was the younger brother of my ggf Samuel Lachmann, who immigrated about 1891 and lived in Chicago until his death in 1937. Andreas was still alive in 1942 according to a handwritten note that I have in my possession. Andreas emigrated (to Canada) 1907, tried to immigrate to U.S. in 1917 at age 40 with his family which by then had nine children. Kenneth Browne researching: BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE From duesterhoeft at gmx.de Fri Jan 30 12:41:55 2009 From: duesterhoeft at gmx.de (duesterhoeft@gmx.de) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:41:55 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rozyszcze death record 1879 #412a Message-ID: <49836613.4010502@gmx.de> Hello, I need help with the birth location given in the Rozyszcze death record 1879#412a (Michael Diesterhoeft). Odessa3 says "Dubitsch" but looking at the file (#127 of 138) at search.labs.familysearch.org it reads more like "Dobutesch". At least it can't be Dubitsch near Lutsk, because Michael was born about 1822 and lived near Wegrow in the early 1860s and later near Lublin before he moved to Volhynia. I have considered Dabcze (Lissa), Debicz (Konin), Debicze (Torun), Dobaczewo (Sierpc), Dobcza (Sienawa), Dobczyn (Srem), Dobczyn (Warszawa), Dobrcz (Bromberg), Dobroczyn (Zaniemysl), Dubeczno (Wlodawa), Dubidze (Pajeczno) and Dubicze (Losice) but none convinced me, because these either don't match up Michael's migration (Wengrow-Lublin-Volhynia) or the spelling doesn't seem to fit well enough. Does anyone have an idea which place is meant or has access to the original record (FHL INTL Film 2380031) where the handwriting might be more readable? Thank you, Stefan Duesterhoeft From ra_stein at telus.net Fri Jan 30 13:20:03 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:20:03 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rozyszcze death record 1879 #412a In-Reply-To: <49836613.4010502@gmx.de> References: <49836613.4010502@gmx.de> Message-ID: <845E76E6698C482D9DDA4E6F29286C35@RichardPC> Hi Stefan, Film 2380031 is in my local Family History Center and I will look for the record next time I go there, possibly tomorrow. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rozyszcze death record 1879 #412a > > Hello, > > I need help with the birth location given in the Rozyszcze death record > 1879#412a (Michael Diesterhoeft). Odessa3 says "Dubitsch" but looking at > the file (#127 of 138) at search.labs.familysearch.org it reads more > like "Dobutesch". At least it can't be Dubitsch near Lutsk, because > Michael was born about 1822 and lived near Wegrow in the early 1860s and > later near Lublin before he moved to Volhynia. > > I have considered Dabcze (Lissa), Debicz (Konin), Debicze (Torun), > Dobaczewo (Sierpc), Dobcza (Sienawa), Dobczyn (Srem), Dobczyn > (Warszawa), Dobrcz (Bromberg), Dobroczyn (Zaniemysl), Dubeczno > (Wlodawa), Dubidze (Pajeczno) and Dubicze (Losice) but none convinced > me, because these either don't match up Michael's migration > (Wengrow-Lublin-Volhynia) or the spelling doesn't seem to fit well enough. > > Does anyone have an idea which place is meant or has access to the > original record (FHL INTL Film 2380031) where the handwriting might be > more readable? > > Thank you, > Stefan Duesterhoeft > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From wmfife at telus.net Fri Jan 30 14:12:58 2009 From: wmfife at telus.net (Bill Fife) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:12:58 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] re;Info on Josefinnendorf Settlement References: <4D983545DE84414B8813107CD16B0907@LarryPC> Message-ID: Hi Larry, I have some info on settlers in Galicia. What names were you looking for, with dates if possible. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Dinter" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:28 AM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] re;Info on Josefinnendorf Settlement > > Dear Listers, > Being new to this game,don't know where to start,and wander if someone > could direct me how I can get more info on a small Settlement named > Josefinnendorf and its settlers in Kreis Rawa Ruska (pres West Ukraine) > I thank you,Larry Dinter. > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Fri Jan 30 14:35:27 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:35:27 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rozyszcze death record 1879 #412a In-Reply-To: <845E76E6698C482D9DDA4E6F29286C35@RichardPC> References: <49836613.4010502@gmx.de> <845E76E6698C482D9DDA4E6F29286C35@RichardPC> Message-ID: Stefan, Dick will check the writing.? However, I want to point out that the scribe in this case always showed (based on listings before and after) the province for places not in Volhynia.? My best guess, therefore, is that the location may be entered in error.? While death records are an invaluable resource, they can be error prone due to the mental state of the survivor providing the information.? For example, my grandfather's death record gives his mother as Rosalia Solomka.? In fact, he was born in the village of Solomka and his mother was Katherina Steinwand. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Stein Date: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:22 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rozyszcze death record 1879 #412a To: duesterhoeft at gmx.de, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Hi Stefan, > > Film 2380031 is in my local Family History Center and I will > look for the > record next time I go there, possibly tomorrow. > > Dick Stein > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:41 PM > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rozyszcze death record 1879 #412a > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I need help with the birth location given in the Rozyszcze > death record > > 1879#412a (Michael Diesterhoeft). Odessa3 says "Dubitsch" but > looking at > > the file (#127 of 138) at search.labs.familysearch.org it > reads more > > like "Dobutesch". At least it can't be Dubitsch near Lutsk, because > > Michael was born about 1822 and lived near Wegrow in the early > 1860s and > > later near Lublin before he moved to Volhynia. > > > > I have considered Dabcze (Lissa), Debicz (Konin), Debicze (Torun), > > Dobaczewo (Sierpc), Dobcza (Sienawa), Dobczyn (Srem), Dobczyn > > (Warszawa), Dobrcz (Bromberg), Dobroczyn (Zaniemysl), Dubeczno > > (Wlodawa), Dubidze (Pajeczno) and Dubicze (Losice) but none > convinced> me, because these either don't match up Michael's migration > > (Wengrow-Lublin-Volhynia) or the spelling doesn't seem to fit > well enough. > > > > Does anyone have an idea which place is meant or has access to the > > original record (FHL INTL Film 2380031) where the handwriting > might be > > more readable? > > > > Thank you, > > Stefan Duesterhoeft > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sat Jan 31 09:09:39 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:09:39 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] New thoughts on Wegierka village name Message-ID: <796o8r$33m0q1@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> A couple of weeks ago there was discussion on whether this village name reflected a reference to a Polish word for plum (more specifically, the Hungarian plum variety) or whether it was meant to be attached as an adjective to other nearby place names to describe Hungarian origins. I promised to write to an etymology expert for his evaluation. He did reply within the next week but I have been too busy to compile this summary of thoughts until now. So, here we go. We were discussing We~gierka (the e~ means that the original e has a diacritic mark under it giving it an en sound) as a short lived place name in a group of villages along the Wisla River not far from Ga~bin and Ilow. I would first point out that the place name does exist elsewhere in Poland. In the deep south near Przemysl, you will find We~gierka which just happens to be located on the We~gierka River. There is also We~gierki (note the i) near Wrzesnia in Poznan. And finally there are several We~gierski, We~gierska and other variants in other places. Just as English is a complex language for others (is it "lead" [led] the metal; or "lead" [leed] bringing someone along; or "lead" [led] brought someone along?), so too Polish is complex. Small changes such as e to i at the end of a word or adding the s before the ki will totally change the context or meaning of a word. And sometimes the context of the word changes without any change to the letter combination. So, We~gierki in context could be reference to a Hungarian woman but, as my expert friend, Fred Hoffmann, points out, it can also mean "that Hungarian thing". It also stands alone as a noun in reference to a specific popular plum in Poland or as an adjective in the phrase "s~liwki we~gierki" = "Hungarian plum". A direct quote from Fred is appropriate here: "No language is thoroughly logical and consistent about this sort of thing, and a lot of times the usage that ends up becoming standard is just what "feels" right to the natives. And let's face it, if you don't grow up speaking Polish, you may not have any sense of why this terminology is preferable to that terminology. Modern Poles often can't tell you why, back centuries ago, their ancestors started calling something X instead of Y, even though Y seems like the more sensible choice." Returning now to the issue of whether the word is applied directly in this location as a place name or as a modifier for another place name, I will provide Fred's comment (with his permission) as follows: BEGIN QUOTE The qualification "German" or "Polish" probably refers to the dominant ethnic identity of the inhabitants, or perhaps to the kind of charter under which the community was incorporated. Sometimes a town or village was chartered under terms of German law, or Polish law, or Wallachian law, or whatever. I don't recall seeing a "Hungarian-law" town, but then I've never really looked, either. But if you have a Wia~czemin Niemiecki and a Wia~czemin Polski, a place associated with Hungarians would be Wia~czemin We~goerski, not We~gierki. At least, it would if the naming was consistent (which, as I said, you can't always count on). Poles don't often use names or terms referring to females when it comes to forming surnames or place names. There are exceptions, of course, but Polish was fairly chauvinistic in this regard. It would be awfully unusual if a place were called, for instance, Wia~czemin We~gierki because it was the Wia~czemin of the Hungarian women. It might be called that if it were the Wia~czemin where Hungarian plums were common. But if the name referred to the inhabitants or the charter, I'd expect it to be Wia~czemin We~gierski. Actually, I don't understand why these two Wia~czemins are called Niemiecki and Polski, because the _Slownik Geograficzny says_ W. Niemiecki had 18 houses, and 263 Protestants inhabitants, while W. Polski had 35 houses and 263 Protestant inhabitants. Usually Protestants were German rather than Polish; but maybe this was an exception, and W. Polski was a place settled and inhabited by Polish Protestants(!?). Could be, I guess; stranger things have happened. END QUOTE Ultimately trying to explain the reasons behind a name may be impossible. In this case, I am now inclined to go with the Hungarian plum theory. However, it could be named after the other location in Poland spelled exactly the same, or it could be an inconsistency in use of an adjective phrase. Or maybe the people who created this 1830s era map just plain got it wrong. :-) Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca