From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sat Apr 4 09:43:14 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:43:14 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Small survey regarding SGGEE website. Message-ID: <49D78E22.2000707@shaw.ca> As you may know, we are working on a redesign for our site. It is still several months away from rolling out for use but I have a question to ask. This question applies only to those people who are still using this browser to view websites - ** IE6 (Internet Explorer Version 6) ** If you are not using this, you can simply trash this message. You can check which version you have by clicking on "Help" near the top and then on "About Internet Explorer". You may find some other numbers after the 6 such as 6.x.xx but I only care if the 6 is there at the beginning. If you are using it, please respond to me PERSONALLY rather than through the mailing list. I really would like for everyone of you to respond if you are using it as it will be important to my design process. Please also answer the following question: "Why do you continue to use it when IE7 is available at no cost?" Thanks very much for your time and effort. -- Jerry Frank Calgary, AB From My_family at web.de Sat Apr 4 12:24:52 2009 From: My_family at web.de (Ansgar Mantey) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 21:24:52 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei Message-ID: Hello to all I ve found a new relation to my family and I try to find further information to this part..... Heinrich MANTEI * 1884 in Wola Poland oo in 1908 Lydia MANTEI * 1889 in Russia I think the get married in Steinbach, Manitoba Heinrich / Henry + in 1938 in Regina, Lemberg, Saskatchewan, Canada Lydia + 1966 in Lemberg, Saskatchewan So far as I know they had 2 kids: Heinrich and Laura Parents of Heinrich *1884 are Michael MANTEI and Kristine ZIEG I would like to now more about this family Who is able to help ??? Lydia is a member of my family clan and I ve further information to that family Thks for your help Ansgar From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Apr 4 12:52:41 2009 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:52:41 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c9b55e$ea4fee70$beefcb50$@net> Canadian phone directory at http://www.infobel.com/can has 103 listings for Mantei in Canada. There are no listings in Steinbach, 4 listings in Regina, and no listings in Lemberg. There are 9 Zieg listings in Canada. There are no listings in Steinbach, 2 listings in Regina, and no listings in Lemberg. There are 42 Mantey listings in Canada. There are 3 listings in Steinbach, no listings in Regina, and no listings in Lemberg. You might consider writing to some of these people for information. Good luck. Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Ansgar Mantey Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:25 PM To: sggee Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei Hello to all I ve found a new relation to my family and I try to find further information to this part..... Heinrich MANTEI * 1884 in Wola Poland oo in 1908 Lydia MANTEI * 1889 in Russia I think the get married in Steinbach, Manitoba Heinrich / Henry + in 1938 in Regina, Lemberg, Saskatchewan, Canada Lydia + 1966 in Lemberg, Saskatchewan So far as I know they had 2 kids: Heinrich and Laura Parents of Heinrich *1884 are Michael MANTEI and Kristine ZIEG I would like to now more about this family Who is able to help ??? Lydia is a member of my family clan and I ve further information to that family Thks for your help Ansgar _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gpvjem at sasktel.net Sat Apr 4 18:30:45 2009 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:30:45 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei References: Message-ID: Hello Ansgar: Some relatives of Heinrich/Lydia Mantei live here in Swift Current, Saskatchewan. One in particular is a longtime friend of mine. Although he is not in the best of health, I have arranged to visit him Sunday afternoon. Whatever information he can provide, I will pass on to you after that. Best regards, John Marsch ------------------------------------------------------ Hello to all I ve found a new relation to my family and I try to find further information to this part..... Heinrich MANTEI * 1884 in Wola Poland oo in 1908 Lydia MANTEI * 1889 in Russia I think the get married in Steinbach, Manitoba Heinrich / Henry + in 1938 in Regina, Lemberg, Saskatchewan, Canada Lydia + 1966 in Lemberg, Saskatchewan So far as I know they had 2 kids: Heinrich and Laura Parents of Heinrich *1884 are Michael MANTEI and Kristine ZIEG I would like to now more about this family Who is able to help ??? Lydia is a member of my family clan and I ve further information to that family Thks for your help Ansgar From GPVListAdmin at sggee.org Sat Apr 4 19:46:30 2009 From: GPVListAdmin at sggee.org (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:46:30 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Steinbach family - Volhynia and Konin regions Message-ID: <49D81B86.6020303@sggee.org> I received the following message from Germany. This person is not a list subscriber. If you can help, please respond to him personally. Jerry Frank Mailing List Administrator -------- Original Message -------- Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:31:24 +0200 From: Viktor Steinbach To: gpvlistadmin at sggee.org Good day! My name is Victor Steinbach. I am looking for information about my ancestors. Something I could from my father and my close relatives to know. I know that my Urururopa from Germany to Volhynia withdrawn. His name was Johann Valentin Steinbach, born in Saxony in 1794, but in what city I do not know. His wife, Anna Margaret Lautensak. Steinbach Lautensak Johann Valentin and Anna Margaret had a son Peter Steinbach of approximately 1842 Genowefa, Konin, Posnan (Poznan), Poland was born and a daughter Steinbach Karoline (married Charles Lassy). Then married Peter Steinbach am 31.Aug. 1862 in Konin Grochowski Ernestine. Parents of Ernestine Grochowski: Father-JohannGrochowski; Mother-Anna Rosine Mogdans. If you would help me, then I would be very grateful! Yours sincerely, Victor Steinbach ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posteingang immer voll? Der erste Speicher, der mitw?chst: Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail! From hgillespie at rogers.com Sun Apr 5 10:29:29 2009 From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 10:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei Message-ID: <379059.56369.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> You may also consider searching in www.canada411.ca which has a lot more listings for Mantei, Mantei Mantay and Mantey but only 4 for Zieg in Saskatchewan. This will be a lot of letter writing. However you can search in the Vital Records for Manitoba - for the names you are seeking. There are limits - births only older than 100 years, marriages over 80 years ago and deaths over 70 years ago. Unfortunately, spelling errors abound. I found my Karl Baier and Alwine Bachmann marriage as Carl Fechner and Alwine Bechman. I suppose the writing must haved been poor. The website for the Vital Records for Manitoba is http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca and click on Search the Database Helen --- On Sat, 4/4/09, joepessarra wrote: > From: joepessarra > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei > To: "'Ansgar Mantey'" , "'sggee'" > Received: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 7:52 PM > Canadian phone directory at http://www.infobel.com/can has 103 listings for > Mantei in Canada.? There are no listings in Steinbach, > 4 listings in Regina, > and no listings in Lemberg. > > There are 9 Zieg listings in Canada.? There are no > listings in Steinbach, 2 > listings in Regina, and no listings in Lemberg. > > There are 42 Mantey listings in Canada.? There are 3 > listings in Steinbach, > no listings in Regina, and no listings in Lemberg. > > You might consider writing to some of these people for > information. > > Good luck. > > Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] > On Behalf Of Ansgar > Mantey > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:25 PM > To: sggee > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo > Mantei > > Hello to all > > I ve found a new relation to my family and I try to find > further information > to this part..... > > Heinrich MANTEI * 1884 in Wola Poland oo in 1908 Lydia > MANTEI * 1889 in > Russia > I think the get married in Steinbach, Manitoba > Heinrich / Henry + in 1938 in Regina, Lemberg, > Saskatchewan, Canada > Lydia + 1966 in Lemberg, Saskatchewan > So far as I know they had 2 kids: Heinrich and Laura > > Parents of Heinrich *1884 are Michael MANTEI and Kristine > ZIEG > > I would like to now more about this family > Who is able to help ??? > Lydia is a member of my family clan and I ve further > information to that > family > > Thks for your help > > Ansgar > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca Sun Apr 5 13:20:22 2009 From: robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca (Robert Norenberg) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Re Mantei Message-ID: <330266.32090.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Ansgar I also had a great aunt (Bertha nee Mantei/Manthey etc.) who lived in Waldeck,Saskatchewan. I know very little about her family but her spouse,Johan Oswald, was from the Steinbach area (Friedensfeld) and then they moved to Waldeck in the 1930's. Waldeck is very close to Swift Current so there may some kind of family connection with the Mantei's John Marsch mentioned. Regards Robert Norenberg __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com From gpvjem at sasktel.net Sun Apr 5 19:02:34 2009 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:02:34 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei Message-ID: Hello again Ansgar: I have spent a pleasant few hours visiting my Mantei friend and this what I learned with some info I obtained from other sources. Heinrich Mantei died at Lemberg, Saskatchewan in 1959 and is buried there. His wife Lydia Mantei died in 1966 and is also buried there. This I confirmed from Saskatchewan cemetery records. Heinrich and Lydia had 6 children, Ida, Agnes, Natalie, Laura, Arthur and Edmund. There was no son Heinrich. I spoke with one of Heinrich and Lydia's granddaughters who gave her consent to send you her Canadian telephone number if you wish to obtain further information. This I will do by private email. I was only able to find the death year and place for Kristine Zieg. She was buried in 1922 at Aberdeen Saskatchewan. I found nothing on her husband Michael. The Mantei name is plentiful here in Saskatchewan. There were/are literally dozens of Mantei people living in and around the town of Estevan Saskatchewan, for example. However, none of the Mantei descendants I am acquainted with knew of a relationship with the Manteis around Estevan. Perhaps there is a very distant connection. I hope this is of help to you. Tsch??, John Marsch Hello Ansgar: Some relatives of Heinrich/Lydia Mantei live here in Swift Current, Saskatchewan. One in particular is a longtime friend of mine. Although he is not in the best of health, I have arranged to visit him Sunday afternoon. Whatever information he can provide, I will pass on to you after that. Best regards, John Marsch ------------------------------------------------------ Hello to all I ve found a new relation to my family and I try to find further information to this part..... Heinrich MANTEI * 1884 in Wola Poland oo in 1908 Lydia MANTEI * 1889 in Russia I think the get married in Steinbach, Manitoba Heinrich / Henry + in 1938 in Regina, Lemberg, Saskatchewan, Canada Lydia + 1966 in Lemberg, Saskatchewan So far as I know they had 2 kids: Heinrich and Laura Parents of Heinrich *1884 are Michael MANTEI and Kristine ZIEG I would like to now more about this family Who is able to help ??? Lydia is a member of my family clan and I ve further information to that family Thks for your help Ansgar From deloresstevens at sasktel.net Sun Apr 5 20:26:37 2009 From: deloresstevens at sasktel.net (Delores Stevens) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:26:37 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei References: Message-ID: <009701c9b667$7eee6850$5298c5d8@Delores> Just to let you know that some of the Mantei's are buried in Bergheim Cemetary, located between Saskatoon and Aberdeen. This group includes Alice Mantei Dec 12, 1933 - Oct 11, 1939 Christina Mantei 1857 - 1922 Michael Mantei 1856 - 1935 I do not know if this list is complete as one of my cousins was doing the recording. Woodlawn Cemetary in Saskatoon includes the following members of the Mantei family: MANTEI JUSTINA 21373 19A-L011-SH Aug-10-1960 Aug-13-1960 MANTIE ADOLPH 6118 81-L037-N1/2 Jun-21-1929 Jun-23-1929 MANTIE BABY BOY 4444 47-L008-S1/3EC1/4 TR Dec-05-1924 Dec-10-1924 MANTIE BABY GIRL 3904 47-L001-N1/3EC1/4 CR Feb-18-1923 Feb-23-1923 MANTIE BABY GIRL 3903 47-L001-N1/3EC1/4 CR Feb-18-1923 Feb-23-1923 The rest may be at Aberdeen, but do not know if that has been recorded, would need to check with Saskatchewan Genealogical Society. My mother's aunt was married to a Mantei and would have to ask her where he is buried. Delores Maduke Saskatoon From fnr at thebluezone.net Mon Apr 6 08:17:55 2009 From: fnr at thebluezone.net (Frieda ) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:17:55 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Un-glue Message-ID: I ordered some of the un-glue and it didn't work and so I wrote to the company and asked the reason. This is their response. I am using Rosonol lighter fluid in place of Naptha and fine sandpaper. It is slow, but seems to be working. Hello Frieda, There were two common types of products used to mount photos on album paper. The types are: - Glue such as Elmer's glue, school paste, and similar products. These are water based products. Un-du does not work on glues. - Adhesives such as rubber cement. These are petroleum based products. All "self-adhesive" products are petroleum based. Un-du works on adhesives. If un-du is not releasing the photos as expected, then it is likely your photos were mounted using glue or paste. Photos that were 'glued' can usually be separated from the mounting media (paper, etc.) by soaking the backing paper in slightly warm water (about 80-90 degrees F). There are some precautions: This process is not fast. Depending on how hard the glue has become, it may be very difficult to remove all remnants of the black paper your mentioned. This method should not be used on photos printed by modern ink jet printers. The ink will run and destroy the picture. But here is the good news, a fact that many people don't realize. If the photos are conventional photos, that is, photos processed in a photo lab using photographic chemicals then you may immerse the entire photo in water. Allow the photo to soak well until the glue dissolves and the backing paper can be easily pulled off. The black paper you mentioned is a very loose fiber material which tears readily. If that occurs, simply rub the remaining material lightly until it comes off. The image side of the photo when wet becomes quite soft and can be easily scratched, so avoid touching this surface as much as possible. It is perfectly safe to soak these photographic photos when handled with care. Remember, during the processing of the photos they were subjected to several chemicals and finally rinsed in water. After they have dried, most plastic backed photos will have retained their finish (glossy, matte, etc.) however the paper photos will likely lose the glossy sheen (before the plastic photos came about, photo labs force dried paper photos on ferrotype tins which produced the gloss.) If the photos are plastic backed material they should retain their flatness, however older paper photos will tend to curl up. In days past, photo labs used ferrotype tins as mentioned to produce the glossy surface and to keep the prints flat while they dried. If a matte finish was desired they sandwiched the photos between layers of blotter paper and tightly stretched a canvas over the whole stack. Big plants had machines that blew warm air over this stack to speed up the drying while amateur photographers simple let them dry over time. You can do the same thing using blotter paper, or several layers of paper towels above and below the photos then weighting the stack under books or similar heavy flat objects to keep the photos from curling. If using paper towels, try to use towels that do not have patterns embossed in the paper as this pattern may show up in the surface of the photo. (Blotter paper can usually be purchased at art supply companies.) It may take several days for the pictures to dry using this method and depending on the humidity in your area. Some people have been known to use a flat iron to heat and speed up drying photos with blotter paper. This is safe if you limit the heat to avoid scorching. I hope you find this information helpful. Ron Lee Aspen Shops Sales From jeffkrebs at shaw.ca Mon Apr 6 08:58:11 2009 From: jeffkrebs at shaw.ca (Jeff Krebs) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:58:11 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Un-glue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All I purchased some as well. The product appeared to work a little, but I think some of the glue used may have been the "carpenter's white glue". It has that plastic appearance and is very hard. I wasn't overly impressed by the product as it's viscosity is less than water and runs all over the place. I have yet to try it on those sticky backed photo albums from the 70's. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Frieda Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:18 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Un-glue I ordered some of the un-glue and it didn't work and so I wrote to the company and asked the reason. This is their response. I am using Rosonol lighter fluid in place of Naptha and fine sandpaper. It is slow, but seems to be working. Hello Frieda, There were two common types of products used to mount photos on album paper. The types are: - Glue such as Elmer's glue, school paste, and similar products. These are water based products. Un-du does not work on glues. - Adhesives such as rubber cement. These are petroleum based products. All "self-adhesive" products are petroleum based. Un-du works on adhesives. If un-du is not releasing the photos as expected, then it is likely your photos were mounted using glue or paste. Photos that were 'glued' can usually be separated from the mounting media (paper, etc.) by soaking the backing paper in slightly warm water (about 80-90 degrees F). There are some precautions: This process is not fast. Depending on how hard the glue has become, it may be very difficult to remove all remnants of the black paper your mentioned. This method should not be used on photos printed by modern ink jet printers. The ink will run and destroy the picture. But here is the good news, a fact that many people don't realize. If the photos are conventional photos, that is, photos processed in a photo lab using photographic chemicals then you may immerse the entire photo in water. Allow the photo to soak well until the glue dissolves and the backing paper can be easily pulled off. The black paper you mentioned is a very loose fiber material which tears readily. If that occurs, simply rub the remaining material lightly until it comes off. The image side of the photo when wet becomes quite soft and can be easily scratched, so avoid touching this surface as much as possible. It is perfectly safe to soak these photographic photos when handled with care. Remember, during the processing of the photos they were subjected to several chemicals and finally rinsed in water. After they have dried, most plastic backed photos will have retained their finish (glossy, matte, etc.) however the paper photos will likely lose the glossy sheen (before the plastic photos came about, photo labs force dried paper photos on ferrotype tins which produced the gloss.) If the photos are plastic backed material they should retain their flatness, however older paper photos will tend to curl up. In days past, photo labs used ferrotype tins as mentioned to produce the glossy surface and to keep the prints flat while they dried. If a matte finish was desired they sandwiched the photos between layers of blotter paper and tightly stretched a canvas over the whole stack. Big plants had machines that blew warm air over this stack to speed up the drying while amateur photographers simple let them dry over time. You can do the same thing using blotter paper, or several layers of paper towels above and below the photos then weighting the stack under books or similar heavy flat objects to keep the photos from curling. If using paper towels, try to use towels that do not have patterns embossed in the paper as this pattern may show up in the surface of the photo. (Blotter paper can usually be purchased at art supply companies.) It may take several days for the pictures to dry using this method and depending on the humidity in your area. Some people have been known to use a flat iron to heat and speed up drying photos with blotter paper. This is safe if you limit the heat to avoid scorching. I hope you find this information helpful. Ron Lee Aspen Shops Sales _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From deloresstevens at sasktel.net Mon Apr 6 20:57:51 2009 From: deloresstevens at sasktel.net (Delores Stevens) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:57:51 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei Message-ID: <001101c9b735$060e7410$8618e143@Delores> Hello Ansgar This afternoon I spoke with one of the descendants of Michael and Christine Mantei. She is one of their granddaughters, here in Saskatoon. The following children were born to Michael and Chrisitine. There were some girls that were born and died in infancy and she is not sure if this was here or in Europe. If here she does not know where they were buried. They moved from Rosenfeld, Manitoba to the Bergheim District near Saskatoon in 1907. 1. Emil - no info 2. Adolph - married Adeline Drager (my grandmother's sister) died in 1929 and is buried in Woodlawn Cemetary. They have one daughter still living 3. Henry - moved to Lemberg - she thought all of his children were deceased 4. Carl - married Emelia Belke (my grandfather's cousin, his mother and her mother were sisters). They moved to Kelowna, BC 5. Wanda - married Ferdinand Schmidtke/Schmidt/Smith (my grandmother's cousin). They moved to Brussels, Ontario 6. Hulda - married Emil Lisko 7. Albert - her dad and her sister lives in White Rock, BC. He is buried in Hillcrest Memorial Gardens in Saskatoon. 8. Gustav - married Emma Wutzke (my grandfather's cousin) and they resided in Calgary, Alberta. 9. Lydia married Adolph Bloke and they resided in Hudson Bay, Saskatchewan. That is all that I have for now. Just to keep you updated. Delores From laurelei_primeau at telus.net Mon Apr 6 21:12:50 2009 From: laurelei_primeau at telus.net (Laurelei Primeau) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:12:50 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei In-Reply-To: <001101c9b735$060e7410$8618e143@Delores> References: <001101c9b735$060e7410$8618e143@Delores> Message-ID: <222E39F9-2B57-4DED-A3D6-0207F5709A38@telus.net> This looks like the Mantei family that my family has a connection to - my grandfather Joe Dembeck married Ernestina Schroeder after her husband Emil Mantei died in 1909. Emil's father was Michael, but I don't have his mother's name. Emil and Tina had 3 children. This was in Bergheim. I just moved on the weekend, so everything here is a mess but if this line interests you, I'll find what information I have. Laurelei On 6-Apr-09, at 8:57 PM, Delores Stevens wrote: > > Hello Ansgar > This afternoon I spoke with one of the descendants of Michael and > Christine > Mantei. She is one of their granddaughters, here in Saskatoon. > > The following children were born to Michael and Chrisitine. There > were > some girls that were born and died in infancy and she is not sure > if this > was here or in Europe. If here she does not know where they were > buried. > They moved from Rosenfeld, Manitoba to the Bergheim District near > Saskatoon > in > 1907. > > 1. Emil - no info > 2. Adolph - married Adeline Drager (my grandmother's sister) died > in 1929 > and is buried in Woodlawn Cemetary. They have one daughter still > living > 3. Henry - moved to Lemberg - she thought all of his children were > deceased > 4. Carl - married Emelia Belke (my grandfather's cousin, his > mother and > her mother were sisters). They moved to Kelowna, BC > 5. Wanda - married Ferdinand Schmidtke/Schmidt/Smith (my > grandmother's > cousin). They moved to Brussels, Ontario > 6. Hulda - married Emil Lisko > 7. Albert - her dad and her sister lives in White Rock, BC. He > is buried > in Hillcrest Memorial Gardens in Saskatoon. > 8. Gustav - married Emma Wutzke (my grandfather's cousin) and > they resided > in Calgary, Alberta. > 9. Lydia married Adolph Bloke and they resided in Hudson Bay, > Saskatchewan. > > That is all that I have for now. Just to keep you updated. > Delores > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From deloresstevens at sasktel.net Tue Apr 7 06:00:33 2009 From: deloresstevens at sasktel.net (Delores Stevens) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:00:33 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MANTEI oo ZIEG and Mantei oo Mantei References: <001101c9b735$060e7410$8618e143@Delores> <222E39F9-2B57-4DED-A3D6-0207F5709A38@telus.net> Message-ID: <001901c9b780$d6580780$e998c5d8@Delores> Hi Laurelei Yes this is the same family line, and have it listed in the chart for the Descendants of Stanislaw Schroeder. I find it is not hard to find out information about families from Bergheim. My mother is one of them and I either ask her or one of her cousins, and they usually point me in the right direction. Thanks for the information. Delores From dollyhauf at att.net Tue Apr 7 08:42:39 2009 From: dollyhauf at att.net (dollyhauf) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:42:39 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Translation Message-ID: <00c501c9b797$7bf29550$4001a8c0@HAUF> I seem to remember recently that someone on this list said they were able to translate from Russian to English, but can't find it in the archives. This would pertain to birth certificates that my neice is trying to get from films at FHC to give to her father for his 80th birthday. They would be of his parents. If there is anyone that could help in translating, I would appreciate being able to give her your email so she could get in contact with you. Thanks so much for listening. Dolly Hauf From dollyhauf at att.net Tue Apr 7 08:47:19 2009 From: dollyhauf at att.net (dollyhauf) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:47:19 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Russian Translation Message-ID: <00ea01c9b798$247acf30$4001a8c0@HAUF> Made a mistake in my earlier message. The records would be for BIRTHS. in Poland, not deaths. Dolly Hauf From farose at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 07:27:28 2009 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 07:27:28 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term Message-ID: My grandmother had three children who died in infancy in Volhynia. I just heard from one of my aunts, that my grandmother had told her that they had died of "Kraempfe" - and please excuse the spelling, if it is incorrect. I'm not too fluent in German - and the thought that comes to mind is "cramps?" Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might mean? Was it a non-technical term for a medical condition? Or . . . ? Rose-Marie From gpvjem at sasktel.net Thu Apr 9 07:43:49 2009 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 08:43:49 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term References: Message-ID: <8D4B4B4EF3D647CAA81450FB84A93173@Marsh> You are correct Rose-Marie, Kraempfen = Cramps. It was a term often used relative to the deaths of infants in many records as cause of death. Sometimes the term might have been used in conjunction with convulsions. John Marsch ---------------------------------------------- My grandmother had three children who died in infancy in Volhynia. I just heard from one of my aunts, that my grandmother had told her that they had died of "Kraempfe" - and please excuse the spelling, if it is incorrect. I'm not too fluent in German - and the thought that comes to mind is "cramps?" Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might mean? Was it a non-technical term for a medical condition? Or . . . ? Rose-Marie From otto at schienke.com Thu Apr 9 08:20:53 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:20:53 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C9122B4-A127-4B96-ACB0-3D54DB1417FB@schienke.com> "The cramps". . . it almost sounds like a generic definition of cholera. Establishing the events in the flow of time would be helpful. Cholera usually marched behind an army. Cholera is a bacteria causing diarrheal symptoms usually resulting in dehydration and death if unattended. Severe stomach, leg and muscle cramps are part of the symptoms. On Apr 9, 2009, at 10:27 AM, F&RM Haddad wrote: > Kraempfe . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From GHBoehm at ish.de Thu Apr 9 09:03:04 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:03:04 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49DE1C38.1030709@ish.de> F&RM Haddad schrieb: > My grandmother had three children who died in infancy in Volhynia. I just > heard from one of my aunts, that my grandmother had told her that they had > died of "Kraempfe" - and please excuse the spelling, if it is incorrect. I'm > not too fluent in German - and the thought that comes to mind is "cramps?" > Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might mean? Was it a non-technical > term for a medical condition? Or . . . ? > > Rose-Marie Hello Rose-Marie, the cause of death "Kr?mpfe" was also called "Fraisen" which in most cases ment tetany (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetany_(medical_sign) ) resulting from frequent (annual) pregancies of the mother. A good explanation - unfortunately in German - is under www.genealogie-kiening.de/todesurs.htm . G?nther From otto at schienke.com Thu Apr 9 12:29:08 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:29:08 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term In-Reply-To: <49DE1C38.1030709@ish.de> References: <49DE1C38.1030709@ish.de> Message-ID: Diagnosing a word without physical symptoms is difficult at the least. I'm afraid my jury is still out on the vitamin D deficiency. It seems that it would be a rare disorder among farm people with cows to milk every day... No calcium deficiency there. But then again, I was not there to witness the event... I could be wrong. Rose-Marie did indicate to me that the occurrence was around 1921 or during post war years. There did exist a less common disorder named "Kraempfe" that could be categorized a post-war malady due to food scarcity. The eating of grain contaminated with ergot fungus results in ergot poisoning and had reached epidemic stages in the middle ages. It was first described in the 1800's. It was not understood. "Kraempfe" (cramps) is one of those catch-all phrases that say "I don't know" what it is. Cramps is what I get out of bed with every morning. Perhaps more examples or recorded cases could be submitted on the "kaempfe" disorder. I had a young cousin that died from "pernicious anemia" (fatal anemia) and upon reading the report thought to myself, "Were the parents that destitute that they could not feed her properly?" The disorder was not understood at the time, hence a death sentence. She had a genetic disorder not allowing her to assimilate certain nutrients in her food that in turn she evacuated daily until she died. Today a simple vitamin B12 injection would save her life. Not much is to be said for our ignorance. On Apr 9, 2009, at 12:03 PM, G?nther B?hm wrote: > F&RM Haddad schrieb: >> My grandmother had three children who died in infancy in Volhynia. >> I just >> heard from one of my aunts, that my grandmother had told her that >> they had >> died of "Kraempfe" - and please excuse the spelling, if it is >> incorrect. I'm >> not too fluent in German - and the thought that comes to mind is >> "cramps?" >> Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might mean? Was it a non- >> technical >> term for a medical condition? Or . . . ? >> >> Rose-Marie > > Hello Rose-Marie, > the cause of death "Kr?mpfe" was also called "Fraisen" which in most > cases ment tetany (see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetany_(medical_sign) ) resulting from > frequent (annual) pregancies of the mother. A good explanation - > unfortunately in German - is under www.genealogie-kiening.de/todesurs.htm > . > > G?nther . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From otto at schienke.com Thu Apr 9 14:03:44 2009 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:03:44 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term Message-ID: Sigrid, Lack of calcium and vitamin D on the mother's behalf affecting the child and resulting in mortality is an interesting scenario. I am aware of the reproductive rate of our colonists and also am aware of the infant mortality rate which could reach 50% in the first two years depending on the stability of their living conditions. I am curious as to how many of the infant deaths per percent of the births were attributed to calcium and vitamin D deficiency? Was the vitamin D deficiency a common malady among the colonists as a whole? Or was it a rare condition? I know there were many deaths of infants due to the complexity of life and the lack of medical understanding. It is of interest to me to categorize frequency of occurrence of each malady to be able to mentally visualize a communities day to day life. It would be helpful if Rose-Marie qualified the frequency of the births of those three children. Were they born one year apart? . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- ________________________________ "The future. . . . always catches up." From GHBoehm at ish.de Thu Apr 9 14:50:49 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:50:49 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49DE6DB9.4050304@ish.de> Otto schrieb: > Lack of calcium and vitamin D on the mother's behalf affecting the > child and resulting in mortality is an interesting scenario. > I am aware of the reproductive rate of our colonists and also am aware > of the infant mortality rate which could reach 50% in the first two > years depending on the stability of their living conditions. > > I am curious as to how many of the infant deaths per percent of the > births were attributed to calcium and vitamin D deficiency? Was the > vitamin D deficiency a common malady among the colonists as a whole? > Or was it a rare condition? I know there were many deaths of infants > due to the complexity of life and the lack of medical understanding. > It is of interest to me to categorize frequency of occurrence of each > malady to be able to mentally visualize a communities day to day life. > > It would be helpful if Rose-Marie qualified the frequency of the > births of those three children. Were they born one year apart? Otto, of course there were lots of reasons for the high infant mortality with epidemic diseases such as pertussis, mumps, diphtheria, rubella and measles playing a substantial role. But "Kr?mpfe" or "Frais" were different. In many families by half of the children or even more died of "Frais". I found this phenomenon in an ancestral branch where food supply was not a major problem but the pregnancies really happened annually. It was accepted like a Scourge of God and the next son or daughter got the name of the deceased one. G?nther From Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de Fri Apr 10 00:10:48 2009 From: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de (Jutta Dennerlein) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:10:48 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term In-Reply-To: <49DE6DB9.4050304@ish.de> References: <49DE6DB9.4050304@ish.de> Message-ID: <49DEF0F8.5090507@t-online.de> Hi docs! please also see the article "The sacred disease at I??w" and Annegret Krause's valuable comment on: http://www.upstreamvistula.org/Mysteries/Myst_Epilepsy.htm Kind regards and Happy Easter! Jutta Dennerlein www.upstreamvistula.org G?nther B?hm wrote: > Otto schrieb: > >> Lack of calcium and vitamin D on the mother's behalf affecting the >> child and resulting in mortality is an interesting scenario. >> I am aware of the reproductive rate of our colonists and also am aware >> of the infant mortality rate which could reach 50% in the first two >> years depending on the stability of their living conditions. >> >> I am curious as to how many of the infant deaths per percent of the >> births were attributed to calcium and vitamin D deficiency? Was the >> vitamin D deficiency a common malady among the colonists as a whole? >> Or was it a rare condition? I know there were many deaths of infants >> due to the complexity of life and the lack of medical understanding. >> It is of interest to me to categorize frequency of occurrence of each >> malady to be able to mentally visualize a communities day to day life. >> >> It would be helpful if Rose-Marie qualified the frequency of the >> births of those three children. Were they born one year apart? >> > > Otto, > of course there were lots of reasons for the high infant mortality with > epidemic diseases such as pertussis, mumps, diphtheria, rubella and > measles playing a substantial role. But "Kr?mpfe" or "Frais" were > different. In many families by half of the children or even more died of > "Frais". I found this phenomenon in an ancestral branch where food > supply was not a major problem but the pregnancies really happened > annually. It was accepted like a Scourge of God and the next son or > daughter got the name of the deceased one. > > G?nther > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From perry1121 at aol.com Fri Apr 10 06:01:54 2009 From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:01:54 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kraempfen infant deaths Message-ID: <49DF4342.10300@aol.com> Rose-Marie, After reading the German article in G?nther's link in yesterday's post and skimming medical links intelligible to the average person, I've come to the following conclusions about "Kraempfen/cramps" as a cause of death among newborns: A newborn baby's deficiency of calcium and vitamin D caused a combination of symptoms which included continuous crying, trembling, and convulsions which ultimately led to death. The deficiency can be caused by a lack of calcium and vitamin D in the mother's diet or by underlying maternal illnesses such as diabetes which contribute to the deficiency. The modern treatment consists of intravenous calcium & D supplements (obviously unavailable to our ancestors). A regular diet of dairy products for calcium and time spent in the sunshine for vitamin D can prevent this if the mother is otherwise in good health. However, her body needs to absorb enough calcium to have it ready to pass on to her developing baby, and that supply cannot be available if the mother is pregnant annually. At least a two-year interval between pregnancies is crucial for her optimal health and that of her baby. Two or three children in succession is not a problem. However, many of the families of our ancestors saw the annual birth of a child and families with more than ten children. I've been indexing records from the Lublin area and can state quite truly that the infant mortality rate is astonishing and that many mothers bore a child nearly every year, certainly every two years, almost without fail. I even noticed one family who lost four newborn infants in less than six years. Yet very few death records actually list a cause of death and symptoms of too many illnesses were similar, so I don't think any general analysis can be made except to say this was a contributing factor in some of them. Regards, Sigrid Pohl Perry Sigrid Pohl Perry From nancygertner at mac.com Fri Apr 10 06:19:47 2009 From: nancygertner at mac.com (Nancy Gertner) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:19:47 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kraempfen infant deaths, mortality, and Vitamin D deficiency In-Reply-To: <49DF4342.10300@aol.com> References: <49DF4342.10300@aol.com> Message-ID: <9E1B7C61-3D48-46FD-BFE6-04EF3969E9EF@mac.com> Thanks for reading and sharing your analysis. We still have some health effects - potentially - from Vitamin D deficiencies. The difference is that now our 21st Century science is more advanced, and we can conduct studies and develop potential 'cures.' A recent report comes to mind on the high incidence of Autism spectrum disorders in Somali children. The children's families had moved to climates more northern than Africa - like Sweden and Minnesota - and the resulting higher incidence of Autism was believed due to less sunshine and Vitamin D. So I find that an interesting example of how migration can create new health issues in some populations. Nancy in Minnesota On Apr 10, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Sigrid Pohl Perry wrote: > Rose-Marie, > > After reading the German article in G?nther's link in yesterday's post > and skimming medical links intelligible to the average person, I've > come > to the following conclusions about "Kraempfen/cramps" as a cause of > death among newborns: A newborn baby's deficiency of calcium and > vitamin > D caused a combination of symptoms which included continuous crying, > trembling, and convulsions which ultimately led to death. The > deficiency > can be caused by a lack of calcium and vitamin D in the mother's > diet or > by underlying maternal illnesses such as diabetes which contribute to > the deficiency. The modern treatment consists of intravenous > calcium & D > supplements (obviously unavailable to our ancestors). . . I've been > indexing records from the Lublin area and > can state quite truly that the infant mortality rate is astonishing > and > that many mothers bore a child nearly every year, certainly every two > years, almost without fail. > > Regards, > Sigrid Pohl Perry > > From akdl25466_2 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Apr 10 12:20:31 2009 From: akdl25466_2 at blueyonder.co.uk (Anne Keen) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:20:31 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 7 References: Message-ID: <001101c9ba11$77097a50$eb74eb5c@your3hcef8q6j0> I find this an interesting - if sad - subject. As I have German ancestors ( where I've hit a brick wall) and English ancestors ( where I haven't) I can't compare the infant mortality rate between the two. The English infant mortality rate is horrifying. I, and my daughter who is also interested in genealogy, find it hard to understand how our ancestors coped, mentally, with the death of so many of their children. Expectations might have been different, in that, in these days, we all expect our babies to live.It could be that, all those years ago, people were not so confident and sanguine - but nevertheless, it must still have been a blow. I have a most peculiar phenomenon in one branch of my husband's family. As was common in Victorian times, the families consisted of mum, dad, and about a dozen children, of either sex. This family had equal proportions of boys and girls - and of the six boys born to them, all but one died in young manhood., between the ages of 19 and 23.Only one boy survived beyond the age of 23, and he married and lived to about sixty-five.The girls all survived well into old age. I wondered what was killing these young men off - something genetic?Accidents? Work? ( They were file cutters,and inhaled metal dust).Carelessness? But other branches of the family, who also worked as file cutters, survived as long as anyone could expect, into their sixties.It's a puzzle which may have answers in a work called The File Cutters of Sheffield, but I've yet to locate one! I hope you find your answer. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 7 > Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Baby illness term (Otto) > 2. Re: Baby illness term (Otto) > 3. Re: Baby illness term (G?nther B?hm) > 4. Re: Baby illness term (Jutta Dennerlein) > 5. Kraempfen infant deaths (Sigrid Pohl Perry) > 6. Re: Kraempfen infant deaths, mortality, and Vitamin D > deficiency (Nancy Gertner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:29:08 -0400 > From: Otto > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term > To: GPV List > Cc: G?nther B?hm , Haddad > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Diagnosing a word without physical symptoms is difficult at the least. > I'm afraid my jury is still out on the vitamin D deficiency. It seems > that it would be a rare disorder among farm people with cows to milk > every day... No calcium deficiency there. But then again, I was not > there to witness the event... I could be wrong. > > Rose-Marie did indicate to me that the occurrence was around 1921 or > during post war years. > > There did exist a less common disorder named "Kraempfe" that could be > categorized a post-war malady due to food scarcity. The eating of > grain contaminated with ergot fungus results in ergot poisoning and > had reached epidemic stages in the middle ages. It was first described > in the 1800's. It was not understood. > > "Kraempfe" (cramps) is one of those catch-all phrases that say "I > don't know" what it is. Cramps is what I get out of bed with every > morning. Perhaps more examples or recorded cases could be submitted > on the "kaempfe" disorder. > > I had a young cousin that died from "pernicious anemia" (fatal anemia) > and upon reading the report thought to myself, "Were the parents that > destitute that they could not feed her properly?" The disorder was not > understood at the time, hence a death sentence. She had a genetic > disorder not allowing her to assimilate certain nutrients in her food > that in turn she evacuated daily until she died. Today a simple > vitamin B12 injection would save her life. Not much is to be said for > our ignorance. > > On Apr 9, 2009, at 12:03 PM, G?nther B?hm wrote: > >> F&RM Haddad schrieb: >>> My grandmother had three children who died in infancy in Volhynia. >>> I just >>> heard from one of my aunts, that my grandmother had told her that >>> they had >>> died of "Kraempfe" - and please excuse the spelling, if it is >>> incorrect. I'm >>> not too fluent in German - and the thought that comes to mind is >>> "cramps?" >>> Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might mean? Was it a non- >>> technical >>> term for a medical condition? Or . . . ? >>> >>> Rose-Marie >> >> Hello Rose-Marie, >> the cause of death "Kr?mpfe" was also called "Fraisen" which in most >> cases ment tetany (see >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetany_(medical_sign) ) resulting from >> frequent (annual) pregancies of the mother. A good explanation - >> unfortunately in German - is under www.genealogie-kiening.de/todesurs.htm >> . >> >> G?nther > > > > . . . Otto > " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- > ________________________________ > "The future. . . . always catches up." > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:03:44 -0400 > From: Otto > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term > To: Sigrid Pohl Perry > Cc: Haddad , GPV List > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Sigrid, > Lack of calcium and vitamin D on the mother's behalf affecting the > child and resulting in mortality is an interesting scenario. > I am aware of the reproductive rate of our colonists and also am aware > of the infant mortality rate which could reach 50% in the first two > years depending on the stability of their living conditions. > > I am curious as to how many of the infant deaths per percent of the > births were attributed to calcium and vitamin D deficiency? Was the > vitamin D deficiency a common malady among the colonists as a whole? > Or was it a rare condition? I know there were many deaths of infants > due to the complexity of life and the lack of medical understanding. > It is of interest to me to categorize frequency of occurrence of each > malady to be able to mentally visualize a communities day to day life. > > It would be helpful if Rose-Marie qualified the frequency of the > births of those three children. Were they born one year apart? > > > > > . . . Otto > " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- > ________________________________ > "The future. . . . always catches up." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:50:49 +0200 > From: G?nther B?hm > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term > To: Wolhynien-Liste > Message-ID: <49DE6DB9.4050304 at ish.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Otto schrieb: >> Lack of calcium and vitamin D on the mother's behalf affecting the >> child and resulting in mortality is an interesting scenario. >> I am aware of the reproductive rate of our colonists and also am aware >> of the infant mortality rate which could reach 50% in the first two >> years depending on the stability of their living conditions. >> >> I am curious as to how many of the infant deaths per percent of the >> births were attributed to calcium and vitamin D deficiency? Was the >> vitamin D deficiency a common malady among the colonists as a whole? >> Or was it a rare condition? I know there were many deaths of infants >> due to the complexity of life and the lack of medical understanding. >> It is of interest to me to categorize frequency of occurrence of each >> malady to be able to mentally visualize a communities day to day life. >> >> It would be helpful if Rose-Marie qualified the frequency of the >> births of those three children. Were they born one year apart? > > Otto, > of course there were lots of reasons for the high infant mortality with > epidemic diseases such as pertussis, mumps, diphtheria, rubella and > measles playing a substantial role. But "Kr?mpfe" or "Frais" were > different. In many families by half of the children or even more died of > "Frais". I found this phenomenon in an ancestral branch where food > supply was not a major problem but the pregnancies really happened > annually. It was accepted like a Scourge of God and the next son or > daughter got the name of the deceased one. > > G?nther > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:10:48 +0200 > From: Jutta Dennerlein > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term > To: Wolhynien-Liste > Message-ID: <49DEF0F8.5090507 at t-online.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed > > Hi docs! > > please also see the article "The sacred disease at I??w" and Annegret > Krause's valuable comment on: > http://www.upstreamvistula.org/Mysteries/Myst_Epilepsy.htm > > Kind regards and Happy Easter! > > Jutta Dennerlein > www.upstreamvistula.org > > G?nther B?hm wrote: >> Otto schrieb: >> >>> Lack of calcium and vitamin D on the mother's behalf affecting the >>> child and resulting in mortality is an interesting scenario. >>> I am aware of the reproductive rate of our colonists and also am aware >>> of the infant mortality rate which could reach 50% in the first two >>> years depending on the stability of their living conditions. >>> >>> I am curious as to how many of the infant deaths per percent of the >>> births were attributed to calcium and vitamin D deficiency? Was the >>> vitamin D deficiency a common malady among the colonists as a whole? >>> Or was it a rare condition? I know there were many deaths of infants >>> due to the complexity of life and the lack of medical understanding. >>> It is of interest to me to categorize frequency of occurrence of each >>> malady to be able to mentally visualize a communities day to day life. >>> >>> It would be helpful if Rose-Marie qualified the frequency of the >>> births of those three children. Were they born one year apart? >>> >> >> Otto, >> of course there were lots of reasons for the high infant mortality with >> epidemic diseases such as pertussis, mumps, diphtheria, rubella and >> measles playing a substantial role. But "Kr?mpfe" or "Frais" were >> different. In many families by half of the children or even more died of >> "Frais". I found this phenomenon in an ancestral branch where food >> supply was not a major problem but the pregnancies really happened >> annually. It was accepted like a Scourge of God and the next son or >> daughter got the name of the deceased one. >> >> G?nther >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:01:54 -0500 > From: Sigrid Pohl Perry > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kraempfen infant deaths > To: GPV List , Haddad > > Message-ID: <49DF4342.10300 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Rose-Marie, > > After reading the German article in G?nther's link in yesterday's post > and skimming medical links intelligible to the average person, I've come > to the following conclusions about "Kraempfen/cramps" as a cause of > death among newborns: A newborn baby's deficiency of calcium and vitamin > D caused a combination of symptoms which included continuous crying, > trembling, and convulsions which ultimately led to death. The deficiency > can be caused by a lack of calcium and vitamin D in the mother's diet or > by underlying maternal illnesses such as diabetes which contribute to > the deficiency. The modern treatment consists of intravenous calcium & D > supplements (obviously unavailable to our ancestors). A regular diet of > dairy products for calcium and time spent in the sunshine for vitamin D > can prevent this if the mother is otherwise in good health. However, her > body needs to absorb enough calcium to have it ready to pass on to her > developing baby, and that supply cannot be available if the mother is > pregnant annually. At least a two-year interval between pregnancies is > crucial for her optimal health and that of her baby. Two or three > children in succession is not a problem. However, many of the families > of our ancestors saw the annual birth of a child and families with more > than ten children. I've been indexing records from the Lublin area and > can state quite truly that the infant mortality rate is astonishing and > that many mothers bore a child nearly every year, certainly every two > years, almost without fail. I even noticed one family who lost four > newborn infants in less than six years. Yet very few death records > actually list a cause of death and symptoms of too many illnesses were > similar, so I don't think any general analysis can be made except to say > this was a contributing factor in some of them. > > Regards, > Sigrid Pohl Perry > > Sigrid Pohl Perry > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:19:47 -0500 > From: Nancy Gertner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kraempfen infant deaths, mortality, > and Vitamin D deficiency > To: Sigrid Pohl Perry > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <9E1B7C61-3D48-46FD-BFE6-04EF3969E9EF at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Thanks for reading and sharing your analysis. > > We still have some health effects - potentially - from Vitamin D > deficiencies. The difference is that now our 21st Century science is > more advanced, and we can conduct studies and develop potential 'cures.' > > A recent report comes to mind on the high incidence of Autism > spectrum disorders in Somali children. > > The children's families had moved to climates more northern than > Africa - like Sweden and Minnesota - and the resulting higher > incidence of Autism was believed due to less sunshine and Vitamin D. > > So I find that an interesting example of how migration can create new > health issues in some populations. > > Nancy in Minnesota > > > On Apr 10, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Sigrid Pohl Perry wrote: > >> Rose-Marie, >> >> After reading the German article in G?nther's link in yesterday's post >> and skimming medical links intelligible to the average person, I've >> come >> to the following conclusions about "Kraempfen/cramps" as a cause of >> death among newborns: A newborn baby's deficiency of calcium and >> vitamin >> D caused a combination of symptoms which included continuous crying, >> trembling, and convulsions which ultimately led to death. The >> deficiency >> can be caused by a lack of calcium and vitamin D in the mother's >> diet or >> by underlying maternal illnesses such as diabetes which contribute to >> the deficiency. The modern treatment consists of intravenous >> calcium & D >> supplements (obviously unavailable to our ancestors). . . I've been >> indexing records from the Lublin area and >> can state quite truly that the infant mortality rate is astonishing >> and >> that many mothers bore a child nearly every year, certainly every two >> years, almost without fail. >> >> Regards, >> Sigrid Pohl Perry >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 7 > ************************************************** > > From farose at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:12:03 2009 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:12:03 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] thanks and another question - re: food Message-ID: My thanks to all of you who responded to my question regarding cause of death given as Kraempfe. It has been most educational and enlightening! Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and it was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It was called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The "oo" is pronounced as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and cooked somehow so the flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon bits and fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I am actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know just how it was made. Thank-you in advance! Rose-Marie From perry1121 at aol.com Thu Apr 9 13:26:15 2009 From: perry1121 at aol.com (Sigrid Pohl Perry) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:26:15 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term In-Reply-To: References: <49DE1C38.1030709@ish.de> Message-ID: <49DE59E7.2040501@aol.com> Rose-Marie, After reading the German article in G?nther's link and skimming medical links intelligible to the average person, I've come to the following conclusions about this cause of death among newborns: a newborn baby's deficiency of calcium and vitamin D caused a combination of symptoms which included continuous crying, trembling, and convulsions which ultimately led to death. The deficiency can be caused by a lack of calcium and vitamin D in the mother's diet or by underlying maternal illnesses such as diabetes which contribute to the deficiency. The modern treatment consists of intravenous calcium & D supplements (obviously unavailable to our ancestors). A regular diet of dairy products for calcium and time spent in the sunshine for vitamin D can prevent this if the mother is otherwise in good health. However, her body needs to absorb enough calcium to have it ready to pass on to her developing baby, and that supply cannot be available if the mother is pregnant annually. At least a two-year interval between pregnancies is crucial for her optimal health. Quite amazingly, many of the families of our ancestors saw the annual birth of a child. I've been indexing records from the Lublin area and can state quite truly that the infant mortality rate is significant and that many mothers bore a child nearly every year, certainly every two years, almost without fail. I even noticed one family who lost four newborn infants in less than six years. Sigrid Pohl Perry Otto wrote: > Diagnosing a word without physical symptoms is difficult at the least. > I'm afraid my jury is still out on the vitamin D deficiency. It seems > that it would be a rare disorder among farm people with cows to milk > every day... No calcium deficiency there. But then again, I was not > there to witness the event... I could be wrong. > > Rose-Marie did indicate to me that the occurrence was around 1921 or > during post war years. > > There did exist a less common disorder named "Kraempfe" that could be > categorized a post-war malady due to food scarcity. The eating of > grain contaminated with ergot fungus results in ergot poisoning and > had reached epidemic stages in the middle ages. It was first described > in the 1800's. It was not understood. > > "Kraempfe" (cramps) is one of those catch-all phrases that say "I > don't know" what it is. Cramps is what I get out of bed with every > morning. Perhaps more examples or recorded cases could be submitted > on the "kaempfe" disorder. > > I had a young cousin that died from "pernicious anemia" (fatal anemia) > and upon reading the report thought to myself, "Were the parents that > destitute that they could not feed her properly?" The disorder was not > understood at the time, hence a death sentence. She had a genetic > disorder not allowing her to assimilate certain nutrients in her food > that in turn she evacuated daily until she died. Today a simple > vitamin B12 injection would save her life. Not much is to be said for > our ignorance. > > On Apr 9, 2009, at 12:03 PM, G?nther B?hm wrote: > > >> F&RM Haddad schrieb: >> >>> My grandmother had three children who died in infancy in Volhynia. >>> I just >>> heard from one of my aunts, that my grandmother had told her that >>> they had >>> died of "Kraempfe" - and please excuse the spelling, if it is >>> incorrect. I'm >>> not too fluent in German - and the thought that comes to mind is >>> "cramps?" >>> Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might mean? Was it a non- >>> technical >>> term for a medical condition? Or . . . ? >>> >>> Rose-Marie >>> >> Hello Rose-Marie, >> the cause of death "Kr?mpfe" was also called "Fraisen" which in most >> cases ment tetany (see >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetany_(medical_sign) ) resulting from >> frequent (annual) pregancies of the mother. A good explanation - >> unfortunately in German - is under www.genealogie-kiening.de/todesurs.htm >> . >> >> G?nther >> > > > > . . . Otto > " The Zen moment..." wk. of January 04, 2009- > ________________________________ > "The future. . . . always catches up." > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From jhfamtree at yahoo.com Sat Apr 11 18:01:56 2009 From: jhfamtree at yahoo.com (Judy H) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" Message-ID: <237993.18509.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My aunt was just asking me to see if I could track down a recipe for this dish, and I've been through multiple Polish cookbooks without any success. I'd also appreciate hearing how this dish is made. Thanks for triggering this memory, Rose-Marie! Judy Herling Researching Family History for: KINTOP, WITZKE, HERLING, BILOF, SEIDLITZ Germany / Poland Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and it was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It was called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The "oo" is pronounced as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and cooked somehow so the flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon bits and fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I am actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know just how it was made. Thank-you in advance! Rose-Marie From colnels at telus.net Sat Apr 11 18:48:52 2009 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:48:52 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" In-Reply-To: <237993.18509.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <237993.18509.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c9bb10$d572c830$80585890$@net> Could this be a dish that my mother used to make called Foosher with potato dumplings? I'm sure it came from Volhynia. We were some of the last familes that were saved from Stalin's massacres, by getting out in December 1926. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Judy H Sent: April-11-09 7:02 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" My aunt was just asking me to see if I could track down a recipe for this dish, and I've been through multiple Polish cookbooks without any success. I'd also appreciate hearing how this dish is made. Thanks for triggering this memory, Rose-Marie! Judy Herling Researching Family History for: KINTOP, WITZKE, HERLING, BILOF, SEIDLITZ Germany / Poland Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and it was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It was called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The "oo" is pronounced as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and cooked somehow so the flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon bits and fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I am actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know just how it was made. Thank-you in advance! Rose-Marie _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 From lynnds5 at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 19:15:42 2009 From: lynnds5 at gmail.com (Lynn G) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:15:42 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" In-Reply-To: <000801c9bb10$d572c830$80585890$@net> References: <237993.18509.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000801c9bb10$d572c830$80585890$@net> Message-ID: <7bbb550a0904111915s536b6ea9se67700d5d8135ca9@mail.gmail.com> My grandmother also made something like this, from what I hear. She mixed the left over mashed potatoes with flour and fried it in bacon grease. I don't recall hearing anything about her putting the bacon and fat in cream, though. Her family was from Volhynia as well. Good luck! Lynn On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Nelson Itterman wrote: > Could this be a dish that my mother used to make called Foosher with potato > dumplings? I'm sure it came from Volhynia. We were some of the last familes > that were saved from Stalin's massacres, by getting out in December 1926. > Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Judy H > Sent: April-11-09 7:02 PM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" > > > My aunt was just asking me to see if I could track down a recipe for this > dish, and I've been through multiple Polish cookbooks without any success. > > I'd also appreciate hearing how this dish is made. > > Thanks for triggering this memory, Rose-Marie! > Judy Herling > Researching Family History for: > KINTOP, WITZKE, HERLING, BILOF, SEIDLITZ Germany / Poland > > > > Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a > dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and > it > was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It > was > called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The "oo" is pronounced > as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and cooked somehow so the > flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon bits and > fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was > served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even > when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate > it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever > make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish > brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I > am > actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was > noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know > just how it was made. > > Thank-you in advance! > > Rose-Marie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 > 10:51:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From colnels at telus.net Sat Apr 11 19:28:22 2009 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:28:22 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" In-Reply-To: <7bbb550a0904111915s536b6ea9se67700d5d8135ca9@mail.gmail.com> References: <237993.18509.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000801c9bb10$d572c830$80585890$@net> <7bbb550a0904111915s536b6ea9se67700d5d8135ca9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001701c9bb16$5b969680$12c3c380$@net> The potato dumplings, which were made from potatoes mixed with flour, then were boiled in water, and then fried in bacon grease and were eaten with sour cream. It was one of my favourites. Nelson From: Lynn G [mailto:lynnds5 at gmail.com] Sent: April-11-09 8:16 PM To: Nelson Itterman Cc: Judy H; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" My grandmother also made something like this, from what I hear. She mixed the left over mashed potatoes with flour and fried it in bacon grease. I don't recall hearing anything about her putting the bacon and fat in cream, though. Her family was from Volhynia as well. Good luck! Lynn On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Nelson Itterman wrote: Could this be a dish that my mother used to make called Foosher with potato dumplings? I'm sure it came from Volhynia. We were some of the last familes that were saved from Stalin's massacres, by getting out in December 1926. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Judy H Sent: April-11-09 7:02 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" My aunt was just asking me to see if I could track down a recipe for this dish, and I've been through multiple Polish cookbooks without any success. I'd also appreciate hearing how this dish is made. Thanks for triggering this memory, Rose-Marie! Judy Herling Researching Family History for: KINTOP, WITZKE, HERLING, BILOF, SEIDLITZ Germany / Poland Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and it was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It was called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The "oo" is pronounced as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and cooked somehow so the flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon bits and fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I am actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know just how it was made. Thank-you in advance! Rose-Marie _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 From jkwalker1968 at earthlink.net Sun Apr 12 00:21:04 2009 From: jkwalker1968 at earthlink.net (Jennifer K. Walker) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:21:04 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006401c9bb3f$3da05020$b8e0f060$@net> I too have been researching Cholera/Dysentery, as well as how it relates to infant mortality rates over the past couple hundred years. Of course, young children have less immunity and thus less opportunity to fight the bacteria which caused the diarrhea. In those times it was common practice to help purge the body when ill, so mothers often help their young by giving them prunes, etc. to help the diarrhea run its course, which in turn caused the body to further lose fluids at a very high rate, often bringing death much faster. My own paternal grandfather, born in 1902 Arkansas, was the youngest of at least eleven children, of which at least eight died within the first three years of life due to "Dysentery." Their mother treated them all with prunes and folk medicines such as castor oil, etc. which left the body further dehydrated. I find it very difficult to understand how mothers could continue this practice in particular after seeing one child after another suffer the same consequences with no change in the fight for life. It seems that it was accepted in those days that children would not necessarily live so to have many would perhaps produce a few who would live into adulthood and there was no good to come from dwelling on those that were lost. My, how far we have come that we expect all of our children to live today! We often think of our hard-working, German ancestors as stern and sturdy, but to think of the losses that they had to overcome...imagine the joy they would have now to know that in such a short time we can insure that each generation has such healthy beginnings! Happy Easter everyone! He is Risen! JennifeR Walker San Antonio, TX Researching: Schlender, Zindler, Steinke, Naderschanske, Kraft, Heinemann, Krueger, Klemke, Schmit, Schultz -------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:20:53 -0400 From: Otto Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term To: GPV List Cc: F&RM Haddad Message-ID: <1C9122B4-A127-4B96-ACB0-3D54DB1417FB at schienke.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes "The cramps". . . it almost sounds like a generic definition of cholera. Establishing the events in the flow of time would be helpful. Cholera usually marched behind an army. Cholera is a bacteria causing diarrheal symptoms usually resulting in dehydration and death if unattended. Severe stomach, leg and muscle cramps are part of the symptoms. On Apr 9, 2009, at 10:27 AM, F&RM Haddad wrote: > Kraempfe From colnels at telus.net Sun Apr 12 05:04:20 2009 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:04:20 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera In-Reply-To: <006401c9bb3f$3da05020$b8e0f060$@net> References: <006401c9bb3f$3da05020$b8e0f060$@net> Message-ID: <001c01c9bb66$d07581f0$716085d0$@net> Hello Jennifer: In my humble opinion, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Thanks ever so much for sharing this knowledge with us. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer K. Walker Sent: April-12-09 1:21 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera I too have been researching Cholera/Dysentery, as well as how it relates to infant mortality rates over the past couple hundred years. Of course, young children have less immunity and thus less opportunity to fight the bacteria which caused the diarrhea. In those times it was common practice to help purge the body when ill, so mothers often help their young by giving them prunes, etc. to help the diarrhea run its course, which in turn caused the body to further lose fluids at a very high rate, often bringing death much faster. My own paternal grandfather, born in 1902 Arkansas, was the youngest of at least eleven children, of which at least eight died within the first three years of life due to "Dysentery." Their mother treated them all with prunes and folk medicines such as castor oil, etc. which left the body further dehydrated. I find it very difficult to understand how mothers could continue this practice in particular after seeing one child after another suffer the same consequences with no change in the fight for life. It seems that it was accepted in those days that children would not necessarily live so to have many would perhaps produce a few who would live into adulthood and there was no good to come from dwelling on those that were lost. My, how far we have come that we expect all of our children to live today! We often think of our hard-working, German ancestors as stern and sturdy, but to think of the losses that they had to overcome...imagine the joy they would have now to know that in such a short time we can insure that each generation has such healthy beginnings! Happy Easter everyone! He is Risen! JennifeR Walker San Antonio, TX Researching: Schlender, Zindler, Steinke, Naderschanske, Kraft, Heinemann, Krueger, Klemke, Schmit, Schultz -------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:20:53 -0400 From: Otto Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term To: GPV List Cc: F&RM Haddad Message-ID: <1C9122B4-A127-4B96-ACB0-3D54DB1417FB at schienke.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes "The cramps". . . it almost sounds like a generic definition of cholera. Establishing the events in the flow of time would be helpful. Cholera usually marched behind an army. Cholera is a bacteria causing diarrheal symptoms usually resulting in dehydration and death if unattended. Severe stomach, leg and muscle cramps are part of the symptoms. On Apr 9, 2009, at 10:27 AM, F&RM Haddad wrote: > Kraempfe _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 From lgitzel at telusplanet.net Sun Apr 12 09:52:47 2009 From: lgitzel at telusplanet.net (Leo Gitzel) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:52:47 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" References: <237993.18509.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My mother made a dish that we called 'kliesel' (my spelling) that sounds similar to what you describe. On searching with Google I came accross a Russian website in which there was a recipe for Klizel. The translated version is a bit difficult to follow but it seems to be what you're looking for. Leo M http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://kuking.net/my/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D9416%26postdays%3D0%26postorder%3Dasc%26start%3D1410%26sid%3Df2b720240ab4b3e24e8af8ee5c415f7b&ei=WRPiSZihDJqutAOSj_W6CQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKliesel%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enCA287CA288%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy H" To: Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" > > My aunt was just asking me to see if I could track down a recipe for this > dish, and I've been through multiple Polish cookbooks without any success. > > I'd also appreciate hearing how this dish is made. > > Thanks for triggering this memory, Rose-Marie! > Judy Herling > Researching Family History for: > KINTOP, WITZKE, HERLING, BILOF, SEIDLITZ > Germany / Poland > > > > Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a > dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and > it > was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It > was > called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The > "oo" is pronounced as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and > cooked somehow > so the flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon > bits > and > fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was > served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even > when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate > it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever > make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish > brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I > am > actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was > noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know > just how it was made. > > Thank-you in advance! > > Rose-Marie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.54/2055 - Release Date: 04/12/09 13:14:00 From mackzie at earthlink.net Sun Apr 12 10:14:33 2009 From: mackzie at earthlink.net (Beth Burke) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:14:33 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera In-Reply-To: <001c01c9bb66$d07581f0$716085d0$@net> References: <006401c9bb3f$3da05020$b8e0f060$@net> <001c01c9bb66$d07581f0$716085d0$@net> Message-ID: <001e01c9bb92$273c91b0$75b5b510$@net> This has been a most interesting, albeit sad, discussion. My grandparents immigrated in 1904. They had one child at the time, and another 13 followed. Out of 14, 4 died while young. One died of what we suspect now was probably appendicitis, two died (within days of each other) of diphtheria, and the 4th was accidently shot with, what was probably back then a common practice - a loaded gun left where it was accessible. Being that all the deaths occurred before my mother was born, she only knew about the heartache she saw in her parents. All four of the children were buried in the same plot where my grandparents are now buried. Two have no headstones to speak of, which is something that I have vowed to change one day. Now that genealogy has become one of my passions (along with surviving a son's teen years!), I feel like I have a connection to these people. To All - Happy Easter & Happy Spring! Beth Burke Verona, Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Nelson Itterman Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:04 AM To: 'Jennifer K. Walker'; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera Hello Jennifer: In my humble opinion, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Thanks ever so much for sharing this knowledge with us. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer K. Walker Sent: April-12-09 1:21 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera I too have been researching Cholera/Dysentery, as well as how it relates to infant mortality rates over the past couple hundred years. Of course, young children have less immunity and thus less opportunity to fight the bacteria which caused the diarrhea. In those times it was common practice to help purge the body when ill, so mothers often help their young by giving them prunes, etc. to help the diarrhea run its course, which in turn caused the body to further lose fluids at a very high rate, often bringing death much faster. My own paternal grandfather, born in 1902 Arkansas, was the youngest of at least eleven children, of which at least eight died within the first three years of life due to "Dysentery." Their mother treated them all with prunes and folk medicines such as castor oil, etc. which left the body further dehydrated. I find it very difficult to understand how mothers could continue this practice in particular after seeing one child after another suffer the same consequences with no change in the fight for life. It seems that it was accepted in those days that children would not necessarily live so to have many would perhaps produce a few who would live into adulthood and there was no good to come from dwelling on those that were lost. My, how far we have come that we expect all of our children to live today! We often think of our hard-working, German ancestors as stern and sturdy, but to think of the losses that they had to overcome...imagine the joy they would have now to know that in such a short time we can insure that each generation has such healthy beginnings! Happy Easter everyone! He is Risen! JennifeR Walker San Antonio, TX Researching: Schlender, Zindler, Steinke, Naderschanske, Kraft, Heinemann, Krueger, Klemke, Schmit, Schultz -------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:20:53 -0400 From: Otto Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Baby illness term To: GPV List Cc: F&RM Haddad Message-ID: <1C9122B4-A127-4B96-ACB0-3D54DB1417FB at schienke.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes "The cramps". . . it almost sounds like a generic definition of cholera. Establishing the events in the flow of time would be helpful. Cholera usually marched behind an army. Cholera is a bacteria causing diarrheal symptoms usually resulting in dehydration and death if unattended. Severe stomach, leg and muscle cramps are part of the symptoms. On Apr 9, 2009, at 10:27 AM, F&RM Haddad wrote: > Kraempfe _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ron at neuman.ca Sun Apr 12 19:44:50 2009 From: ron at neuman.ca (Ron Neuman) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:44:50 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] thanks and another question - re: food In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.1.20090412200216.01c6c848@mail.neuman.ca> I just got home from an Easter Weekend of visiting, so I am getting into the "foosher" discussion a bit late. For many years my sister, Irene (Neuman) Hinchberger has made a pot of "foosher" or "fuscher" for lunch at our annual gritzwurst making day. A year ago I finally convinced Irene to write down the recipe. She immediately said that there was no recipe - it was all in her head. The recipe was in her head, and had been firmly implanted there by our mother, Elsie (Henkelmann) Neuman. Foosher was evidently made in Vohynia by our mother's parents/grandparents, and remained a favorite after the families moved to Alberta in the late 1890's. There is no cream in this version, and no boiling of dumplings. The version that Irene makes is exactly as I remember what our mother made, so I think it is fairly authentic. As usual with ethnic folk recipes, you need to use your imagination a bit, and likely do some experimenting. Foosher (Fuscher) - fry bacon - 1/2 pound bacon (drain the bacon and save the bacon fat. Break the bacon into pieces the size of a quarter) - 6 medium potatoes, peeled and cut in pieces. Boil until well done. - Leave about 1 inch of cooking water in the pot with the potatoes after they are cooked, and save the rest of the water - sprinkle 2/3 cup flour over the potatoes and water, cover and steam for 15 minutes - then mash this mixture well, and add another 1/3 cup flour and mash again until it "feels right" (Irene says that it should have a somewhat gluey texture, and if it doesn't feel right you can add some more flour and cooking water if needed and mash it again) - once you have the mixture well mashed, you drop tablespoonfuls of the potato/flour mixture into a casserole until the bottom of the casserole is covered - then sprinkle that layer with half of the bacon bits and drizzle some of the bacon fat over it - add another layer of the potato balls, sprinkle it with the remaining bacon, and drizzle some more bacon fat onto it - bake uncovered in a 350 degree oven until it is lightly browned (about 30 minutes). Remember that I told you that you would have to use your imagination a bit and do some experimenting, particularly with the part about "until it feels right". If anyone has any questions about this recipe, Irene is quite prepared to help answer the questions. Just email your questions to me, and I'll get the answers for you. This recipe can easily be doubled or tripled if you wish to do so. What do you eat "foosher" with? We like to have it with panfried gritzwurst, or as an accompaniment to a hearty casserole of "pork hocks and sauerkraut." Irene and I would like to hear from any of you who try this recipe - to hear about your successes and if you enjoyed it. I will also answer another question right now, and that is "who is my sister Irene?" Irene now lives in Arizona, but she and her husband visit Edmonton every summer. For those of you who attended the SGGEE convention in Edmonton in 2006, you might remember that at the conclusion of my presentation on "Who the Heck is Cousin Fred?", I presented Irene with a birthday present. The present was the jar of homemade dill pickles that was at least 50 years old. My cousin Alfred and I had found the jar in the dugout cellar of the farm house where we grew up, and the jar was still perfectly preserved. Irene had helped Mom make those dill pickles. >Now, on an entirely different line - I have another question. There is a >dish my grandmother made in the times when the depression was severe, and it >was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada on the prairies. It was >called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. The "oo" is pronounced >as in "foot". It was potatoes mashed with flour, and cooked somehow so the >flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and fried, and the bacon bits and >fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) The potato mixture was >served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it occasionally, even >when times were much better. I had it as a child; but the last time I ate >it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! Not that I will ever >make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it seems to be a dish >brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just how it was made? I am >actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that my grandmother was >noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of my kin seem to know >just how it was made. > >Thank-you in advance! > >Rose-Marie > >_______________________________________________ >Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From deloresstevens at sasktel.net Sun Apr 12 19:54:27 2009 From: deloresstevens at sasktel.net (Delores Stevens) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:54:27 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] thanks and another question - re: food References: <6.2.3.4.1.20090412200216.01c6c848@mail.neuman.ca> Message-ID: <002c01c9bbe3$29871a20$1918e143@Delores> Way to go Irene, for keeping family recipes/traditions alive. The best recipes are those learned from our mothers and kept in our head. I am now in the process of teaching my daughters the same recipes that I learned. This is probably the same way my mother learned, just by making them with her mother. Delores Saskatoon From lothar.fritz at gmx.de Mon Apr 13 00:55:05 2009 From: lothar.fritz at gmx.de (Lothar Fritz) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:55:05 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] thanks and another question - re: food In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.1.20090412200216.01c6c848@mail.neuman.ca> References: <6.2.3.4.1.20090412200216.01c6c848@mail.neuman.ca> Message-ID: <200904130955.06581.lothar.fritz@gmx.de> Hi, As regards volhyinian Fuscher, a recipe for (foosher), is given here (in German): http://wolhynien.de/life/rezept_4.htm Greetings L. Fritz Am Montag, 13. April 2009 04:44:50 schrieb Ron Neuman: > For many years my sister, Irene (Neuman) Hinchberger has made a pot > of "foosher" or "fuscher" for lunch at our annual gritzwurst making > day. ?A year ago I finally convinced Irene to write down the > recipe. ?She immediately said that there was no recipe - it was all > in her head. ?The recipe was in her head, and had been firmly > implanted there by our mother, Elsie (Henkelmann) Neuman. ?Foosher > was evidently made in Vohynia by our mother's parents/grandparents, > and remained a favorite after the families moved to Alberta in the > late 1890's. > > There is no cream in this version, and no boiling of dumplings. ?The > version that Irene makes is exactly as I remember what our mother > made, so I think it is fairly authentic. ?As usual with ethnic folk > recipes, you need to use your imagination a bit, and likely do some > experimenting. > > Foosher (Fuscher) > > - fry bacon - 1/2 pound bacon (drain the bacon and save the bacon > fat. ?Break the bacon into pieces the size of a quarter) > - 6 medium potatoes, peeled and cut in pieces. ?Boil until well done. > - Leave about 1 inch of cooking water in the pot with the potatoes > after they are cooked, and save the rest of the water > - sprinkle 2/3 cup flour over the potatoes and water, cover and steam > for 15 minutes > - then mash this mixture well, and add another 1/3 cup flour and mash > again until it "feels right" (Irene says that it should have a > somewhat gluey texture, and if it doesn't feel right you can add some > more flour and cooking water if needed and mash it again) > - once you have the mixture well mashed, you drop tablespoonfuls of > the potato/flour mixture into a casserole until the bottom of the > casserole is covered > - then sprinkle that layer with half of the bacon bits and drizzle > some of the bacon fat over it > - add another layer of the potato balls, sprinkle it with the > remaining bacon, and drizzle some more bacon fat onto it > - bake uncovered in a 350 degree oven until it is lightly browned > (about 30 minutes). From siegfried at familie-friedrich.de Mon Apr 13 01:19:28 2009 From: siegfried at familie-friedrich.de (Siegfried Friedrich) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:19:28 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FRIEDRICH aus Boryszewo/Tiefenbach, Plock (UpstreamVistula) Message-ID: <49E2F590.6010107@familie-friedrich.de> Hallo, I'm the first time in this maillist. My name is Siegfried FRIEDRICH. I search for more informations to my ancestors. A few times ago I found an interesting chronicle of the school and the community Nowe Boryszewo /Tiefenbach (Plock) by Franz Lackner. www.upstreamvistula.org/Documents/NoweBoryszewo.htm Here you can read, that in 1825 a few settlers from Germany buyed land over there. One of them was called *FRIEDRICH*. The postman *Hermann FRIEDRICH* on page 33 is my still living uncle (and also the 15 years old boy on page 50). The man on page 35 with the number 20 was my grandfather *Ludwig FRIEDRICH*. He was born in 1886. August FRIEDRICH (no. 18) was his brother, Ferdinand LINK (no. 9) was there brother-in-law. Two daughters of the family KULBARSCH (I think n. 43) are godmothers to my brother Wolfgang. The coachman (page 74) was August FRIEDRICH. In a published article "Aus der Geschichte der Niedrungsd?rfer der Gemeinde Gombin" you read something about a village Deutsch-Troschin. The wife of my grandfather Ludwig FRIEDRICH was born there in 1889. She's called Marta FRIEDRICH (born: FELSCHER). This is the Mrs. FRIEDRICH from page 54 in the chronicle of Tiefenbach where you can read: "Frau Friedrich, deren Mann und s?mtliche 3 S?hne im Felde stehen". The sons were my uncles Albert and Hermann and my father Ewald FRIEDRICH. I think, further brothers and sisters to Ludwig and August FRIEDRICH were Adolf, Eduard, Gustav, Julius and her married sister ? LINK. Who can give me further informations to my ancestors? Kind regards and Happy Easter Siegfried (FRIEDRICH) From rlyster at telusplanet.net Mon Apr 13 08:28:03 2009 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:28:03 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham Message-ID: <11032395.306768.1239636483545.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes91> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090413/3cf6e10c/attachment.html From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Apr 13 12:13:52 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:13:52 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham In-Reply-To: <11032395.306768.1239636483545.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes91> References: <11032395.306768.1239636483545.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes91> Message-ID: Rita, Knowing a lot about geography (or at least resources for geographical questions) is distinctly different from trying to interpret a place name from a spoken resource.? :-) Using my limited resources for translation, I tried to find words for hill or river within the place name you mention, both in Polish and Ukrainian.? I don't see it.? Perhaps someone for whom that is the native language can see possibilities. It is the Bug River that separates most of Poland from Ukraine.? Perhaps browsing all the place names along that river would result in a close match but for now, it seems too badly spelled to be successful.? Hopefully you can find another source of their place of origin like a passenger list, etc. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita Lyster Date: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:31 am Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org ?Okay...here's a task for you geography genius' out there.?Over Easter I put pen to paper and recorded a short history of my sister-in-law.? Her grandparents came to Canada in the early 1900's possibly 1907 - 1909 from Poland.?The name of the place is phonetically:? Scalanadrusham meaning "hill on the river" and was by a river that separates Ukraine and Poland.?Their names were Joseph and Rosalie Kindzierski (sounds like "Kinjerski")?Her father was already born in Canada on 16 August 1911 in Rainy River, Ontario.?They spoke Ukrainian at home.? She always thought they were Polish but I wonder??Looking forward to your responses,Rita Lyster From lmpauling at utech.net Sun Apr 12 13:25:03 2009 From: lmpauling at utech.net (Linda Marks Pauling) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:25:03 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera References: <006401c9bb3f$3da05020$b8e0f060$@net><001c01c9bb66$d07581f0$716085d0$@net> <001e01c9bb92$273c91b0$75b5b510$@net> Message-ID: <080701c9bbac$c5bfa510$8c089643@LINDASTOY> another idea about "cholera." My grandparents immigrated in 1901 and had 13 children, 5 of whom died before their first birthday and all of those in the summer months. My other grandmother had 10 children and all survived until adulthood. When I questioned my mother about this, she told me that the one grandmother was unable to nurse and so the babies were fed cow's milk. She said they called it "the milk disease." It was before the days of pasteurization and good refrigeration. I noticed in the church register many babies' deaths noted as "cholera." linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Burke" To: "'Nelson Itterman'" ; "'Jennifer K. Walker'" ; Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera > This has been a most interesting, albeit sad, discussion. From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Apr 13 16:17:25 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:17:25 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham In-Reply-To: <11032395.306768.1239636483545.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes91> References: <11032395.306768.1239636483545.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes91> Message-ID: <49E3C805.8060705@ish.de> Rita Lyster schrieb: > > Over Easter I put pen to paper and recorded a short history of my > sister-in-law. Her grandparents came to Canada in the early 1900's > possibly 1907 - 1909 from Poland. > The name of the place is phonetically: Scalanadrusham meaning "hill > on the river" and was by a river that separates Ukraine and Poland. > Their names were Joseph and Rosalie Kindzierski (sounds like "Kinjerski") > Her father was already born in Canada on 16 August 1911 in Rainy > River, Ontario. > They spoke Ukrainian at home. She always thought they were Polish but > I wonder? > Hello Rita, the most common Polish spelling of the surname is K?DZIERSKI. It is very frequently occurring (15581 events in www.herby.com.pl ) and widely spread over the whole country. Its origin may be the village of K?dzierz, actually part of D?bica, some 100 km east of Krakow and a bit off the eastern bank of the river Wis?oka. There is a Joseph KINDZIERSKI in www.ellisisland.org who immigrated Nov 10, 1907 to the USA. His place of origin is given as Czarny Dunajec, a town some 60 km south of Krakow but quite far from the Ukrainian border. But Czarny Dunajec (black Dunajec) is as well a town as a tributary to the Dunajec river. Before 1918 it was part of the Austrian empire. Sclanadrusham = ?? Szklana = something of glass Huta Szklana = glassworks, glass foundry dru?yna = team, crew, squad G?nther From rlyster at telusplanet.net Tue Apr 14 05:56:20 2009 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:56:20 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham Message-ID: <4417535.395857.1239713780358.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes91> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090414/695ab922/attachment.html From Gelakow at arcor.de Tue Apr 14 14:49:34 2009 From: Gelakow at arcor.de (Gelakow) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:49:34 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12, disease in Volhynia References: Message-ID: <000701c9bd4a$e79f0dc0$2201a8c0@AngelasHaupt> Dear Linda, 1) A tick borne disease called 'Volhynia fever' was one of the reasons for a lot of deaths in the the volhynien region. 2) Babies which were drink cow's milk during an inflammation of the cow's breast tissue by bacteria (Mastitis) often died on diarrhea. Without a microscope doctors could not see the difference between Cholera and Diarrhea (same symptomes) . Best regards Angela ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 > Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Sclanadrusham (Jerry Frank) > 2. Re: Cholera (Linda Marks Pauling) > 3. Re: Sclanadrusham (G?nther B?hm) > 4. Re: Sclanadrusham (Rita Lyster) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:13:52 -0600 > From: Jerry Frank > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: Rita Lyster > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Rita, > > Knowing a lot about geography (or at least resources for geographical > questions) is distinctly different from trying to interpret a place name > from a spoken resource.? :-) > > Using my limited resources for translation, I tried to find words for hill > or river within the place name you mention, both in Polish and Ukrainian.? > I don't see it.? Perhaps someone for whom that is the native language can > see possibilities. > > It is the Bug River that separates most of Poland from Ukraine.? Perhaps > browsing all the place names along that river would result in a close > match but for now, it seems too badly spelled to be successful.? Hopefully > you can find another source of their place of origin like a passenger > list, etc. > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rita Lyster > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:31 am > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > ?Okay...here's a task for you geography genius' out there.?Over Easter I > put pen to paper and recorded a short history of my sister-in-law.? Her > grandparents came to Canada in the early 1900's possibly 1907 - 1909 from > Poland.?The name of the place is phonetically:? Scalanadrusham meaning > "hill on the river" and was by a river that separates Ukraine and > Poland.?Their names were Joseph and Rosalie Kindzierski (sounds like > "Kinjerski")?Her father was already born in Canada on 16 August 1911 in > Rainy River, Ontario.?They spoke Ukrainian at home.? She always thought > they were Polish but I wonder??Looking forward to your responses,Rita > Lyster > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:25:03 -0700 > From: "Linda Marks Pauling" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera > To: "Beth Burke" , "'Nelson Itterman'" > , "'Jennifer K. Walker'" > , > Message-ID: <080701c9bbac$c5bfa510$8c089643 at LINDASTOY> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > another idea about "cholera." My grandparents immigrated in 1901 and had > 13 > children, 5 of whom died before their first birthday and all of those in > the > summer months. My other grandmother had 10 children and all survived until > adulthood. > When I questioned my mother about this, she told me that the one > grandmother > was unable to nurse and so the babies were fed cow's milk. She said they > called it "the milk disease." It was before the days of pasteurization and > good refrigeration. I noticed in the church register many babies' deaths > noted as "cholera." > > linda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth Burke" > To: "'Nelson Itterman'" ; "'Jennifer K. Walker'" > ; > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Cholera > > >> This has been a most interesting, albeit sad, discussion. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:17:25 +0200 > From: G?nther B?hm > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: Wolhynien-Liste > Message-ID: <49E3C805.8060705 at ish.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Rita Lyster schrieb: >> >> Over Easter I put pen to paper and recorded a short history of my >> sister-in-law. Her grandparents came to Canada in the early 1900's >> possibly 1907 - 1909 from Poland. >> The name of the place is phonetically: Scalanadrusham meaning "hill >> on the river" and was by a river that separates Ukraine and Poland. >> Their names were Joseph and Rosalie Kindzierski (sounds like "Kinjerski") >> Her father was already born in Canada on 16 August 1911 in Rainy >> River, Ontario. >> They spoke Ukrainian at home. She always thought they were Polish but >> I wonder? >> > > Hello Rita, > the most common Polish spelling of the surname is K?DZIERSKI. It is very > frequently occurring (15581 events in www.herby.com.pl ) and widely > spread over the whole country. Its origin may be the village of > K?dzierz, actually part of D?bica, some 100 km east of Krakow and a bit > off the eastern bank of the river Wis?oka. > > There is a Joseph KINDZIERSKI in www.ellisisland.org who immigrated Nov > 10, 1907 to the USA. His place of origin is given as Czarny Dunajec, a > town some 60 km south of Krakow but quite far from the Ukrainian border. > But Czarny Dunajec (black Dunajec) is as well a town as a tributary to > the Dunajec river. Before 1918 it was part of the Austrian empire. > > Sclanadrusham = ?? > Szklana = something of glass > Huta Szklana = glassworks, glass foundry > dru?yna = team, crew, squad > > G?nther > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:56:20 -0600 (MDT) > From: Rita Lyster > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: textor_jan at hotmail.com > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > <4417535.395857.1239713780358.JavaMail.nitido at priv-edtnes91> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090414/695ab922/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 > *************************************************** From ejadam at yahoo.com Wed Apr 15 19:16:03 2009 From: ejadam at yahoo.com (E. Adam) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Villages Neu-Chmerin and Solonovka Message-ID: <720069.5562.qm@web53512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello all: I am coming across a number of records in the EWZ for people who born in Neu-Chmerin, which I know was in Volhynia. My grandfather was born there in 1905. I am hoping someone out there has some historical information about Neu-Chmerin that would help me tell my family's story. Neu-Chmerin surnames so far include: Winter, Bank, Belke, Weiss, Reske, Kwast, Sapatschew, Schweichler, Hennig, Karius, Wermann, Krueger, Etz, Rippin and Wechsel. My ancesters left Volhynia for a place called Kromolin near Briansk and Zhizdra sometime after 1910. This was across the Russia border southwest of Moscow and a bit north of Orel. Another German village nearby was Solonovka. Both were evacuated by the German army in early 1942. There are many records in the EWZ for Solonovka. If anyone there also has a connection to Solonovka in the Zizdra region, please let me know. Again, I am looking for cultural history that would help me tell my family's story. Surnames include: Zierat, Gatzke, Mayer, Preis, Rieping, Steinberg, Netzel, Krueger, Kuehn, Lay, Dause (intermarried with my Adam family), Seider, Henkel, Schmidt, Janz and more. Thank you. Edie Adam Virginia, USA From patterson.rachael at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 10:57:02 2009 From: patterson.rachael at gmail.com (Rachael Patterson) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:57:02 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham Message-ID: Hi Rita, When the name Sclanadrusham is broken up into two: Sclana Drusham And sent through one of the search engine databases on the ShtetlSeeker ? Town Search via the www.Jewishgen.org website, many possibilities come up. Have you tried this yet? Just thought you might be interested... Best regards, Rachael Patterson in Calgary, Alberta, CANADA btw - Love your genealogical book ... many thanks :) Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Sclanadrusham (Jerry Frank) > 2. Re: Cholera (Linda Marks Pauling) > 3. Re: Sclanadrusham (G?nther B?hm) > 4. Re: Sclanadrusham (Rita Lyster) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:13:52 -0600 > From: Jerry Frank > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: Rita Lyster > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Rita, > > Knowing a lot about geography (or at least resources for geographical > questions) is distinctly different from trying to interpret a place name > from a spoken resource.? :-) > > Using my limited resources for translation, I tried to find words for hill > or river within the place name you mention, both in Polish and Ukrainian.? I > don't see it.? Perhaps someone for whom that is the native language can see > possibilities. > > It is the Bug River that separates most of Poland from Ukraine.? Perhaps > browsing all the place names along that river would result in a close match > but for now, it seems too badly spelled to be successful.? Hopefully you can > find another source of their place of origin like a passenger list, etc. > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rita Lyster > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:31 am > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > ?Okay...here's a task for you geography genius' out there.?Over Easter I > put pen to paper and recorded a short history of my sister-in-law.? Her > grandparents came to Canada in the early 1900's possibly 1907 - 1909 from > Poland.?The name of the place is phonetically:? Scalanadrusham meaning "hill > on the river" and was by a river that separates Ukraine and Poland.?Their > names were Joseph and Rosalie Kindzierski (sounds like "Kinjerski")?Her > father was already born in Canada on 16 August 1911 in Rainy River, > Ontario.?They spoke Ukrainian at home.? She always thought they were Polish > but I wonder??Looking forward to your responses,Rita Lyster > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Hello Rita, > the most common Polish spelling of the surname is K?DZIERSKI. It is very > frequently occurring (15581 events in www.herby.com.pl ) and widely > spread over the whole country. Its origin may be the village of > K?dzierz, actually part of D?bica, some 100 km east of Krakow and a bit > off the eastern bank of the river Wis?oka. > > There is a Joseph KINDZIERSKI in www.ellisisland.org who immigrated Nov > 10, 1907 to the USA. His place of origin is given as Czarny Dunajec, a > town some 60 km south of Krakow but quite far from the Ukrainian border. > But Czarny Dunajec (black Dunajec) is as well a town as a tributary to > the Dunajec river. Before 1918 it was part of the Austrian empire. > > Sclanadrusham = ?? > Szklana = something of glass > Huta Szklana = glassworks, glass foundry > dru?yna = team, crew, squad > > G?nther > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:56:20 -0600 (MDT) > From: Rita Lyster > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sclanadrusham > To: textor_jan at hotmail.com > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > <4417535.395857.1239713780358.JavaMail.nitido at priv-edtnes91> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20090414/695ab922/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 12 > *************************************************** > From hgillespie at rogers.com Thu Apr 16 19:26:15 2009 From: hgillespie at rogers.com (hgillespie@rogers.com) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" Message-ID: <608106.38682.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I remember my Dad loved Fuscher and my Mom would make it from time to time.? Seems to me there was both fried bacon and onions in it and we didn't have it with gravy. There is a website by a Gerhard Wolter - who has kin in Edmonton - but it is unfortunately in German - all about Fuscher /Kartoffelfuscher. There is a bit of history and a vague recipe(translated below). The gravy or sauce is also in the story but it's not quite a recipe - see also below. The Comments below the story from other lovers of Fuscher note variations on the "recipe" - and several mention Wolhynia as their roots. Enjoy! http://kartoffelfuscher.ka.funpic.de/ REZEPT/RECIPE - the originl German is on the website There is no exact recipe to make Fuscher as it depends on the potatoes, whether they are mealy or waxy. On average, the measurements are one third flour to two thirds potatoes. (traditionally they would have been done with rye flour) Add the flour immediately after draining the boiled potatoes and mix with a large spoon so that the hot potatoes heat and literally cook the flour. If the pot is not large enough to permit the addition of all the flour at one time, then the remainder can be added while mashing the potatoes. Mash the potatoes and flour mixture thoroughly so that it becomes one large mass and no lumps remain. ******* GRAVY/SOSSE Bauchspeck or pork belly bacon cut in small chunks (preferably organic) and fried slowly in a pan over a low flame/heat til crispy - pork rinds.? In years gone by sour cream was slowly added to the rendered fat in the pan until it forms a type of gravy, but today the suggested addition is heavy cream and then adding some lemon juice until just the right flavour is achieved and slowly cooked until a gravy forms. For those who don't like pork rinds in the gravy, they can be removed. The author of the article described in detail the procedure of eating Fuscher which he declared a delicacy! - taking slices from the pan or bowl, carefully pouring the gravy over the slices (with or without the pork rinds) before eating. Helen --- On Sun, 4/12/09, Leo Gitzel wrote: > From: Leo Gitzel > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Received: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 4:52 PM > My mother made a dish that we called > 'kliesel'? (my spelling) that sounds > similar to what you describe. On searching with Google I > came accross a > Russian website in which there was a recipe for > Klizel.? The translated > version is a bit difficult to follow but it seems to be > what you're looking > for. > Leo > M > http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://kuking.net/my/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D9416%26postdays%3D0%26postorder%3Dasc%26start%3D1410%26sid%3Df2b720240ab4b3e24e8af8ee5c415f7b&ei=WRPiSZihDJqutAOSj_W6CQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKliesel%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enCA287CA288%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Judy H" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 7:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food - - "fooshia" > > > > > > My aunt was just asking me to see if I could track > down a recipe for this > > dish, and I've been through multiple Polish cookbooks > without any success. > > > > I'd also appreciate hearing how this dish is made. > > > > Thanks for triggering this memory, Rose-Marie! > > Judy Herling > > Researching Family History for: > > KINTOP, WITZKE, HERLING, BILOF, SEIDLITZ > > Germany / Poland > > > > > > > > Now, on an entirely different line - I have another > question. There is a > > dish my grandmother made in the times when the > depression was severe, and > > it > > was hard to feed a hungry family even here in Canada > on the prairies. It > > was > > called "fooshia" - and I don't know how to spell it. > The > > "oo" is pronounced as in "foot". It was potatoes > mashed with flour, and > > cooked somehow > > so the flour was no longer raw. Bacon was cubed and > fried, and the bacon > > bits > > and > > fat were both put into cream. (Are we gagging yet?) > The potato mixture was > > served with the cream sauce. She continued to make it > occasionally, even > > when times were much better. I had it as a child; but > the last time I ate > > it, it sat in my stomach for several days, I swear! > Not that I will ever > > make this dish, but is anyone familiar with it (it > seems to be a dish > > brought from the Old Country), and can tell me/us just > how it was made? I > > am > > actually wanting to make a cookbooklet of recipes that > my grandmother was > > noted for, and certainly this one qualifies. None of > my kin seem to know > > just how it was made. > > > > Thank-you in advance! > > > > Rose-Marie > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.54/2055 - Release > Date: 04/12/09 > 13:14:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From farose at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 20:59:41 2009 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:59:41 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fuscher thanx - and Bartz question Message-ID: Hearty thanks to all who helped me with the fuscher recipe, with all its regional differences. With all the fat in the sauce, my kids would call it "heart attack on a plate" - but oh, it was good! And I have another question. Pity poor Christoph Bartz, born c.1828 in Sady, Gostynin. Four wives he had in 13 years. First Christine Bomke - who died 19 months after their marriage; then Christine Dahlmann, a widow some 20 years his senior, who died after 7 1/2 years. Wife #3 was Karoline Richert who died 2 1/2 years after they were married; six or seven weeks later he married Karoline's sister Marianne Richert, by whom he had Wilhelm, the father of my (step-) grandfather. One of these wives was the mother of his son Adolf. Does anyone know which one? And am I correct that Christoph Bartz and Marianne Richert also had a son Heinrich? And am I correct in assuming that the reason he married Marianne so quickly after Karoline's death might be because Karoline died in childbirth, or shortly thereafter, leaving a newborn? Hope some of you knowledgeable people have some answers for me. Rose-Marie From car2line at hotmail.com Mon Apr 20 17:11:47 2009 From: car2line at hotmail.com (caroline dacyk) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:11:47 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] music Message-ID: I am wanting to find music that has been recorded in German. I specifically am looking for songs related to love,marriage,wedding anniversaries to be played to honour a Golden Wedding Anniversary. Help needed. _________________________________________________________________ Experience all of the new features, and Reconnect with your life. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650730 From gstelter at uoguelph.ca Mon Apr 20 17:26:45 2009 From: gstelter at uoguelph.ca (Gilbert A Stelter) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for Friedrich and Karoline Mayan of Volhynia Message-ID: <247618474.544391240273605372.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> HI all; In preparation for a trip to Volhynia with Don Miller in September, I'm trying to find info on Friedrich Mayan(b. 1860) and his wife ,Karoline Busse (born 1862). Their daughter Martha (my grandmother) was born in Heimthal in 1891 and confirmed in Neu Viktorowka in 1906. I can find very little about them in the Odessa files - in other words, I don't know their birthplaces, nor do I know if they came earlier from Poland, as did the people on my father's side. They immigrated to Canada in 1913-14. HAs anyone run into these names? Regards, Gil Stelter From GHBoehm at ish.de Tue Apr 21 00:47:46 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?windows-1252?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:47:46 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] music In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49ED7A22.3020600@ish.de> caroline dacyk schrieb: > I am wanting to find music that has been recorded in German. I specifically am looking for songs related to love,marriage,wedding anniversaries to be played to honour a Golden Wedding Anniversary. Help needed. Hello Caroline, look under www.festgestaltung.de/ehejubilaeum/goldene_hochzeit1.shtml#fuenfzig_jahre_ginget_ihr , especially this one by Grillparzer: *Golden, silbern, eisern, ehern* (Franz Grillparzer, * 15.01.1791, ? 21.01.1872) Golden, silbern, eisern, ehern nennt die Alter man der Welt, und zum mindern von dem H?hern schreitet fort sie, wird erz?hlt. Doch der Mensch in unsern Tagen sieht die Alter sich verkehrt: Jugend, die schon Sorgen plagen, zeigt nur eisern ihren Wert. Erzgewappnet geht das Leben, selbst die Liebe wird zum Streit, und dem stets erneuten Streben liegt der Ruhe Gl?ck so weit. Erst nach durchgek?mpften Jahren lacht das Schicksal wieder hold, und mit Silber in den Haaren wird die Zeit, die Ehe - Gold. or www.festpark.de/h084.html (if you know the melody of "Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann", this might be suitable). G?nther From exgeek at comcast.net Tue Apr 21 02:41:49 2009 From: exgeek at comcast.net (Ronald Reinfort) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:41:49 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? Message-ID: My father moved from Rovno in Volhynia to Wartheland in early 1940. What is not clear is when were the arrivals in Wartheland granted German citizenship ? Was it upon arrival, or was there some decree which can be identified and dated ? From shannon.hofer at mayvillestate.edu Tue Apr 21 06:22:26 2009 From: shannon.hofer at mayvillestate.edu (shannon hofer) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:22:26 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] music In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <232097FCEB7D6543A05E2B16E9A2FBB670AD5381BA@mail-srv1.masu.nodak.edu> If you are looking to buy music CDs www.GermanDeli.com has a nice selection. They also have food, gift items, and toiletry items. Great company out of Texas. I've ordered several times from them. The shipping can be a little high so just order lots to make it worthwhile. Shannon Hofer -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of caroline dacyk Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 7:12 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] music I am wanting to find music that has been recorded in German. I specifically am looking for songs related to love,marriage,wedding anniversaries to be played to honour a Golden Wedding Anniversary. Help needed. _________________________________________________________________ Experience all of the new features, and Reconnect with your life. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650730 _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From wjmilner at shaw.ca Tue Apr 21 07:00:52 2009 From: wjmilner at shaw.ca (Jack Milner) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:00:52 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] [Fwd: Volhynien] Message-ID: <49EDD194.6030404@shaw.ca> Email received from Michel G?sior; forwarded to the list. Jack Milner -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Volhynien Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:47:18 +0200 From: Micha? G?sior To: d_y_g at shaw.ca Hello, I'm a polish political science student and am about to write a book about the Germans from Volhynia that had been moved from Ukraine during the second World War. What I'm interested in is to get in touch with people whose parents or grand parents were Germans living in Volhynia. In my opinion they all have some stories to be told and myths to be overthrown. I would really like to collect all those memoirs and write a book about them and how life in that particular time was like. How was it like to live surrounded by Poles, Jews and Ukrainians who lived in peace and coolness with eachother. Do you know any people whose ancestors were Volhynian Germans that I could talk to? Thanks in advance! -- Micha? G?sior mobile: +48 791 762 131 www: http://www.michalgasior.pl/ mail: gasiormichal at gmail.com From nancygertner at mac.com Tue Apr 21 07:39:26 2009 From: nancygertner at mac.com (Nancy Gertner) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:39:26 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] music sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <628E2B35-B9B9-4B36-854D-0DC3FDABF059@mac.com> I go to www.iTunes.com to get a specific type of music or song. You can play samples about 30 seconds long before making a purchase. CDs can be purchased as an album, or by individual songs. Price used to be 99 cents per song, but this changed recently, so some are more and some can be less. Your local library may also have a section of International music that might allow you to sample music before purchasing, or check it out and use it for your special occasion. Many music stores have a section of International music, and some shops that specialize in ethnic items will also carry CDs. www.CDbaby.com is a source to buy that is more direct from the musicians, and eBay is also a place to find lots of music items, which can also be found at places like www.Amazon.com Nancy On Apr 20, 2009, at 7:11 PM, caroline dacyk wrote: > > I am wanting to find music that has been recorded in German. I > specifically am looking for songs related to love,marriage,wedding > anniversaries to be played to honour a Golden Wedding Anniversary. > Help needed. > From GHBoehm at ish.de Tue Apr 21 16:18:56 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:18:56 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de> Ronald Reinfort schrieb: > My father moved from Rovno in Volhynia to Wartheland in early 1940. What is not clear is when were the arrivals in Wartheland granted German citizenship ? Was it upon arrival, or was there some decree which can be identified and dated ? Hello Ronald, like the Germans in Poland, he was granted the German citizenship by 4 March, 1941 ("Verordnung ?ber die Deutsche Volksliste und die deutsche Staatsangeh?rigkeit in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten", Reichsgesetzblatt I, S.118; revision by 31 January, 1942: "Verordnung ?ber die Deutsche Volksliste und die deutsche Staatsangeh?rigkeit in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten vom 4. M?rz 1941 in der Fassung der Verordnung vom 31. Januar 1942 [RGBl 1941 I S. 118; 1942 I S. 51] - Volkslistenverordnung -"). G?nther From GHBoehm at ish.de Tue Apr 21 17:06:27 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:06:27 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? In-Reply-To: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de> References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de> Message-ID: <49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> G?nther B?hm schrieb: > Ronald Reinfort schrieb: >> My father moved from Rovno in Volhynia to Wartheland in early 1940. >> What is not clear is when were the arrivals in Wartheland granted >> German citizenship ? Was it upon arrival, or was there some decree >> which can be identified and dated ? > > Hello Ronald, > like the Germans in Poland, he was granted the German citizenship by 4 > March, 1941 ("Verordnung ?ber die Deutsche Volksliste und die deutsche > Staatsangeh?rigkeit in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten", > Reichsgesetzblatt I, S.118; revision by 31 January, 1942: "Verordnung > ?ber die Deutsche Volksliste und die deutsche Staatsangeh?rigkeit in > den eingegliederten Ostgebieten vom 4. M?rz 1941 in der Fassung der > Verordnung vom 31. Januar 1942 [RGBl 1941 I S. 118; 1942 I S. 51] - > Volkslistenverordnung -"). Sorry, Ronald, this was not correct since the earlier edition and revision affected just the Germans who lived in Poland and Danzig before 1937. The former Ukrainian Germans were granted the German Citizenship by 19 May, 1943 ("Verordnung ?ber die Verleihung der deutschen Staatsangeh?rigkeit an die in die Deutsche Volksliste der Ukraine eingetragenen Personen." Vom 19. Mai 1943, Reichsgesetzblatt Teil I, S.321). Facsimile see http://alex.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?apm=0&aid=dra&datum=19430007&zoom=2&seite=00000321&x=12&y=9 . G?nther From GHBoehm at ish.de Tue Apr 21 17:34:22 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:34:22 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? In-Reply-To: <49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de> <49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> Message-ID: <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de> G?nther B?hm schrieb: > The former Ukrainian Germans were granted the German Citizenship by 19 > May, 1943 ("Verordnung ?ber die Verleihung der deutschen > Staatsangeh?rigkeit an die in die Deutsche Volksliste der Ukraine > eingetragenen Personen." Vom 19. Mai 1943, Reichsgesetzblatt Teil I, S.321). Ronald, ...but the original text says: "[...] erwerben ohne R?cksicht auf den Tag ihrer Aufnahme mit Wirkung vom 21. Juni 1941 die deutsche Staatsb?rgerschaft." *Sorry*, I must correct myself a second time (the citizenship was retroactively granted by *21 June, 1941*, the day of the German aggression against the Soviet Union). G?nther From benovich at imt.net Wed Apr 22 12:35:31 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:35:31 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de><49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de> Message-ID: <014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> If I may add a bit to this rather confused picture, my reading of Robert Koehl, "RKFDV: German Population and Resettlement Policy, 1939-1945", (1957) tells me that (p. 120) the Interior Ministry on July 3, 1940, issued an order on the acquisition of citizenship, but then Himmler stepped in in September and ordered the construction of a Volkslist that would distinguish between true Germans and pretenders. As everyone knows, this produced 4 categories of people, from good Germans to rejects. It seems as though the first category of people got citizenship fairly quickly, and this could have happened, I would guess, already in early 1940. Probably for people in the second category (who had 50% or more of German language and culture but had not fought "actively" for it), had to wait a bit to be approved. It appears that many people got "conditional" citizenship. People in Class 3 (persons of "some or doubtful German origin"), apparently didn't get citizenship (or only "conditional") but could at least keep their belongings. As the war dragged on and the need for recruits grew, the bar was lowered. In 1942 and 1943 (p. 197), more and more people were moved from "conditional" to "unconditional" status, making them eligible for the army. I'm wondering, G?nther, whether the ordinance of 19 May, 1943, may have been related to this broadening of acceptable categories of people. I don't think (I could be wrong) that this means that before this date citizenship was not granted to people from the Ukraine area. The impression I get from Koehl is that citizenship was granted all along since perhaps late 1939 on a case by case basis. I'm wondering, Roland, if in all the confusion between various organs of the government, someone could have granted your uncle citizenship upon his arrival. Then, perhaps, it might have been called into question. Or, if this didn't happen, then the date of his citizenship would almost certainly have depended on his position in the DVL. If he was a good, true German (as I'm sure he was!), he might have been granted citizenship well before May, 1943. If, heaven forfend!, he was not, then it may have been May, 1943. I'm just guessing here. What do you think, G?nther? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?nther B?hm" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? G?nther B?hm schrieb: > The former Ukrainian Germans were granted the German Citizenship by 19 > May, 1943 ("Verordnung ?ber die Verleihung der deutschen > Staatsangeh?rigkeit an die in die Deutsche Volksliste der Ukraine > eingetragenen Personen." Vom 19. Mai 1943, Reichsgesetzblatt Teil I, > S.321). Ronald, ...but the original text says: "[...] erwerben ohne R?cksicht auf den Tag ihrer Aufnahme mit Wirkung vom 21. Juni 1941 die deutsche Staatsb?rgerschaft." *Sorry*, I must correct myself a second time (the citizenship was retroactively granted by *21 June, 1941*, the day of the German aggression against the Soviet Union). G?nther _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.1/2069 - Release Date: 4/20/2009 10:36 AM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 4/22/2009 8:49 AM From shoning at q.com Wed Apr 22 13:28:21 2009 From: shoning at q.com (George Shoning) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:28:21 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? In-Reply-To: <014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de><49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de> <014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: I am not sure if this will shed any light on this matter, but I was issued an identification card (Volkstumausweis) in June 1943 by the office of the Korosten (Volhynia) Regional Commissioner which certified that I was an ethnic German (Volksdeutscher) and was under the protection of the larger German Reich. My parents received similar identification cards. These cards were used more than a year later to support our claim of German citizenship at one of the German Immigration Centers in Poland. George > From: benovich at imt.net > To: GHBoehm at ish.de; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:35:31 -0600 > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? > > If I may add a bit to this rather confused picture, my reading of Robert > Koehl, "RKFDV: German Population and Resettlement Policy, 1939-1945", (1957) > tells me that (p. 120) the Interior Ministry on July 3, 1940, issued an > order on the acquisition of citizenship, but then Himmler stepped in in > September and ordered the construction of a Volkslist that would distinguish > between true Germans and pretenders. As everyone knows, this produced 4 > categories of people, from good Germans to rejects. It seems as though the > first category of people got citizenship fairly quickly, and this could have > happened, I would guess, already in early 1940. Probably for people in the > second category (who had 50% or more of German language and culture but had > not fought "actively" for it), had to wait a bit to be approved. It appears > that many people got "conditional" citizenship. People in Class 3 (persons > of "some or doubtful German origin"), apparently didn't get citizenship (or > only "conditional") but could at least keep their belongings. As the war > dragged on and the need for recruits grew, the bar was lowered. In 1942 and > 1943 (p. 197), more and more people were moved from "conditional" to > "unconditional" status, making them eligible for the army. > > I'm wondering, G?nther, whether the ordinance of 19 May, 1943, may have been > related to this broadening of acceptable categories of people. I don't > think (I could be wrong) that this means that before this date citizenship > was not granted to people from the Ukraine area. The impression I get from > Koehl is that citizenship was granted all along since perhaps late 1939 on a > case by case basis. I'm wondering, Roland, if in all the confusion between > various organs of the government, someone could have granted your uncle > citizenship upon his arrival. Then, perhaps, it might have been called into > question. Or, if this didn't happen, then the date of his citizenship would > almost certainly have depended on his position in the DVL. If he was a > good, true German (as I'm sure he was!), he might have been granted > citizenship well before May, 1943. If, heaven forfend!, he was not, then it > may have been May, 1943. > > I'm just guessing here. What do you think, G?nther? > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "G?nther B?hm" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? > > > G?nther B?hm schrieb: > > The former Ukrainian Germans were granted the German Citizenship by 19 > > May, 1943 ("Verordnung ?ber die Verleihung der deutschen > > Staatsangeh?rigkeit an die in die Deutsche Volksliste der Ukraine > > eingetragenen Personen." Vom 19. Mai 1943, Reichsgesetzblatt Teil I, > > S.321). > > Ronald, > ...but the original text says: > > "[...] erwerben ohne R?cksicht auf den Tag ihrer Aufnahme mit > Wirkung vom 21. Juni 1941 die deutsche Staatsb?rgerschaft." > > *Sorry*, I must correct myself a second time (the citizenship was > retroactively granted by *21 June, 1941*, the day of the German > aggression against the Soviet Union). > > G?nther > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.1/2069 - Release Date: 4/20/2009 > 10:36 AM From GHBoehm at ish.de Wed Apr 22 16:10:26 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 01:10:26 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? In-Reply-To: <014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de><49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de> <014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: <49EFA3E2.80502@ish.de> Richard Benert schrieb: > If I may add a bit to this rather confused picture, my reading of > Robert Koehl, "RKFDV: German Population and Resettlement Policy, > 1939-1945", (1957) tells me that (p. 120) the Interior Ministry on > July 3, 1940, issued an order on the acquisition of citizenship, but > then Himmler stepped in in September and ordered the construction of a > Volkslist that would distinguish between true Germans and pretenders. > As everyone knows, this produced 4 categories of people, from good > Germans to rejects. It seems as though the first category of people > got citizenship fairly quickly, and this could have happened, I would > guess, already in early 1940. Probably for people in the second > category (who had 50% or more of German language and culture but had > not fought "actively" for it), had to wait a bit to be approved. It > appears that many people got "conditional" citizenship. People in > Class 3 (persons of "some or doubtful German origin"), apparently > didn't get citizenship (or only "conditional") but could at least keep > their belongings. As the war dragged on and the need for recruits > grew, the bar was lowered. In 1942 and 1943 (p. 197), more and more > people were moved from "conditional" to "unconditional" status, making > them eligible for the army. > > I'm wondering, G?nther, whether the ordinance of 19 May, 1943, may > have been related to this broadening of acceptable categories of > people. I don't think (I could be wrong) that this means that before > this date citizenship was not granted to people from the Ukraine > area. The impression I get from Koehl is that citizenship was granted > all along since perhaps late 1939 on a case by case basis. I'm > wondering, Roland, if in all the confusion between various organs of > the government, someone could have granted your uncle citizenship upon > his arrival. Then, perhaps, it might have been called into question. > Or, if this didn't happen, then the date of his citizenship would > almost certainly have depended on his position in the DVL. If he was > a good, true German (as I'm sure he was!), he might have been granted > citizenship well before May, 1943. If, heaven forfend!, he was not, > then it may have been May, 1943. Hello Dick, being no specialist in this subject, I just try to interpret the wording of the acts of March 4, 1941 and May 19, 1943: 1. The act has no reference to an act of before 1942 - except the "Reichs- und Staatsangeh?rigkeitsgesetz" of July 22, 1913 (if there was an earlier granting of citizenship to Volhynian Germans, it would have been executed on a legal basis which should have been abrogated and relieved by the new act). 2. In distinct from the act of March 4, 1941, the act of May 19, 1943 knows just three "Abteilungen" (divisions) - no "renegades", which ment a better classification of Volhynian Germans compared with Poland Germans. 3. The act of March 4, 1941 ("Verordnung ?ber die Deutsche Volksliste und die deutsche Staatsangeh?rigkeit in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten", see http://alex.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?apm=0&aid=dra&datum=19410007&zoom=2&seite=00000118&x=11&y=6 ) says: "(3) Eingetragen werden nur ehemalige polnische und ehemalige Danziger Staatsangeh?rige. Im Sinne dieser Verordnug sind: a) ehemalige polnische Staatsangeh?rige Personen, die am 26. Oktober 1939 polnische Staatsangeh?rige waren oder die an diesem Tage staatenlos waren, zuletzt aber die polnische Staatsangeh?rigkeit besessen hatten oder am 26. Oktober 1939 ihren Wohnsitz in den eingegliederten ehemals polnischen Ostgebieten hatten [...]" This means that inhabitants of (the formerly Polish) Western Volhynia who fled from the Red Army after September 1, 1939 to the German occupied Poland were affected by the act - *Dick, you are right*! G?nther From benovich at imt.net Wed Apr 22 17:18:51 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:18:51 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de><49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de><014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> <49EFA3E2.80502@ish.de> Message-ID: <019c01c9c3a9$14f35330$0500a8c0@richard01> Well, it may be that I'm right, but I'm also still confused. Just a word about fleeing from the Red Army in 1939. I think I've read that the Red Army, while present in Volhynia, did not pose any sort of threat to life and limb at that time. In fact, they were instructed to help the evacuation process and, as I recall, they did, although not always with consummate grace. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?nther B?hm" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? Richard Benert schrieb: > If I may add a bit to this rather confused picture, my reading of > Robert Koehl, "RKFDV: German Population and Resettlement Policy, > 1939-1945", (1957) tells me that (p. 120) the Interior Ministry on > July 3, 1940, issued an order on the acquisition of citizenship, but > then Himmler stepped in in September and ordered the construction of a > Volkslist that would distinguish between true Germans and pretenders. > As everyone knows, this produced 4 categories of people, from good > Germans to rejects. It seems as though the first category of people > got citizenship fairly quickly, and this could have happened, I would > guess, already in early 1940. Probably for people in the second > category (who had 50% or more of German language and culture but had > not fought "actively" for it), had to wait a bit to be approved. It > appears that many people got "conditional" citizenship. People in > Class 3 (persons of "some or doubtful German origin"), apparently > didn't get citizenship (or only "conditional") but could at least keep > their belongings. As the war dragged on and the need for recruits > grew, the bar was lowered. In 1942 and 1943 (p. 197), more and more > people were moved from "conditional" to "unconditional" status, making > them eligible for the army. > > I'm wondering, G?nther, whether the ordinance of 19 May, 1943, may > have been related to this broadening of acceptable categories of > people. I don't think (I could be wrong) that this means that before > this date citizenship was not granted to people from the Ukraine > area. The impression I get from Koehl is that citizenship was granted > all along since perhaps late 1939 on a case by case basis. I'm > wondering, Roland, if in all the confusion between various organs of > the government, someone could have granted your uncle citizenship upon > his arrival. Then, perhaps, it might have been called into question. > Or, if this didn't happen, then the date of his citizenship would > almost certainly have depended on his position in the DVL. If he was > a good, true German (as I'm sure he was!), he might have been granted > citizenship well before May, 1943. If, heaven forfend!, he was not, > then it may have been May, 1943. Hello Dick, being no specialist in this subject, I just try to interpret the wording of the acts of March 4, 1941 and May 19, 1943: 1. The act has no reference to an act of before 1942 - except the "Reichs- und Staatsangeh?rigkeitsgesetz" of July 22, 1913 (if there was an earlier granting of citizenship to Volhynian Germans, it would have been executed on a legal basis which should have been abrogated and relieved by the new act). 2. In distinct from the act of March 4, 1941, the act of May 19, 1943 knows just three "Abteilungen" (divisions) - no "renegades", which ment a better classification of Volhynian Germans compared with Poland Germans. 3. The act of March 4, 1941 ("Verordnung ?ber die Deutsche Volksliste und die deutsche Staatsangeh?rigkeit in den eingegliederten Ostgebieten", see http://alex.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?apm=0&aid=dra&datum=19410007&zoom=2&seite=00000118&x=11&y=6 ) says: "(3) Eingetragen werden nur ehemalige polnische und ehemalige Danziger Staatsangeh?rige. Im Sinne dieser Verordnug sind: a) ehemalige polnische Staatsangeh?rige Personen, die am 26. Oktober 1939 polnische Staatsangeh?rige waren oder die an diesem Tage staatenlos waren, zuletzt aber die polnische Staatsangeh?rigkeit besessen hatten oder am 26. Oktober 1939 ihren Wohnsitz in den eingegliederten ehemals polnischen Ostgebieten hatten [...]" This means that inhabitants of (the formerly Polish) Western Volhynia who fled from the Red Army after September 1, 1939 to the German occupied Poland were affected by the act - *Dick, you are right*! G?nther _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 4/22/2009 8:49 AM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 4/22/2009 8:49 AM From GHBoehm at ish.de Thu Apr 23 00:19:27 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:19:27 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? In-Reply-To: <019c01c9c3a9$14f35330$0500a8c0@richard01> References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de><49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de><014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01> <49EFA3E2.80502@ish.de> <019c01c9c3a9$14f35330$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: <49F0167F.5080806@ish.de> Richard Benert schrieb: > Well, it may be that I'm right, but I'm also still confused. > > Just a word about fleeing from the Red Army in 1939. I think I've > read that the Red Army, while present in Volhynia, did not pose any > sort of threat to life and limb at that time. In fact, they were > instructed to help the evacuation process and, as I recall, they did, > although not always with consummate grace. > Richard, what I intended was: there must have been (and in fact was) a legal basis independently of Himmler's orders and we shouldn't mix up the continuously functioning legislation and executive bureaucracy and (as for instance) the top secret "Endl?sung der Judenfrage". And: the actual racist substance of many acts and laws was older than the "Third Reich". I think there was a reliable legal basis for the granting of German citizenship (which became even better through the ongoing war) but its actual execution was partially uncertain. Concerning the Soviet threat: of course Stalin and Molotov calculated the positive international impact of German peasants who lived and prospered under Soviet rule in spite of collectivation, Gulag and the Moscow Trials. And as I understand it, the evacuation of Germans and Poles from Volhynia was at that time neither intended nor enforced by the Soviet authorities. G?nther From car2line at hotmail.com Thu Apr 23 06:38:08 2009 From: car2line at hotmail.com (caroline dacyk) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:38:08 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] music Message-ID: I have found a place in Kelowna that sell several CD's of music recorded by German Artists. It is Illichmann Meats Sausages and Gourmet Foods, 1937 Gordon Street. Thank you for all your suggestions. Caroline _________________________________________________________________ Experience all of the new features, and Reconnect with your life. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650730 From benovich at imt.net Fri Apr 24 10:59:23 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:59:23 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? References: <49EE5460.3060206@ish.de><49EE5F83.90002@ish.de> <49EE660E.2090901@ish.de><014701c9c381$828b8930$0500a8c0@richard01><49EFA3E2.80502@ish.de> <019c01c9c3a9$14f35330$0500a8c0@richard01> <49F0167F.5080806@ish.de> Message-ID: <006c01c9c506$67002c30$0500a8c0@richard01> G?nther wrote: "Concerning the Soviet threat: of course Stalin and Molotov calculated the positive international impact of German peasants who lived and prospered under Soviet rule in spite of collectivation, Gulag and the Moscow Trials. And as I understand it, the evacuation of Germans and Poles from Volhynia was at that time neither intended nor enforced by the Soviet authorities." According to Schechtmann, "European Population Transfers," the Soviets and Germans did set up bureaucracies in both the new "German" and "Soviet" territories they had carved out for themselves. It was a dual system, with representatives of each side working in the territory of the other and in conjunction with the other side. The Soviets apparently expected that many Ukrainian and White Russian immigrants would eagerly come across the border into the Soviet Union, but that few Germans would go the other way and leave the Soviet paradise. They were wrong, of course. Schechtmann said (1946) that he didn't have much information about the Soviet personnel, but that "During the period of German-Soviet collaboration, German sources asserted vigorously tht Soviet bodies had done everything in their power to facilitate the transfer, even to dispensing with the usual border formalities and providing means of transportation." The Soviets provided trains to take some 95,000 German evacuees to the border. 25,000 others went by horse-drawn wagons. Schechtmann says that the Soviets would no doubt have taken them all by train, but that the Nazis thought it would look better if some could be photographed coming over the snow in wagons, hauling with them their meager belongings. The New York Times (June 22, 1941) said that the "Russian administrative bodies treated the entire resetlement action with much political tact." However, after Hitler attacked Russia in 1941, ending the Stalin-Ribbentrop agreement, the stories of Soviet cooperativeness vanished and Hitler accused Stalin of having "forced" thousands of Germans to leave their homes. No doubt the truth lies somewhere in between. It's probably true that the Soviets would have preferred their Germans to stay, and that they didn't force them out. But apparently they did cooperate with German officials in carrying out the exchange. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?nther B?hm" To: Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] When was German citizenship granted ? Richard Benert schrieb: > Well, it may be that I'm right, but I'm also still confused. > > Just a word about fleeing from the Red Army in 1939. I think I've > read that the Red Army, while present in Volhynia, did not pose any > sort of threat to life and limb at that time. In fact, they were > instructed to help the evacuation process and, as I recall, they did, > although not always with consummate grace. > Richard, what I intended was: there must have been (and in fact was) a legal basis independently of Himmler's orders and we shouldn't mix up the continuously functioning legislation and executive bureaucracy and (as for instance) the top secret "Endl?sung der Judenfrage". And: the actual racist substance of many acts and laws was older than the "Third Reich". I think there was a reliable legal basis for the granting of German citizenship (which became even better through the ongoing war) but its actual execution was partially uncertain. Concerning the Soviet threat: of course Stalin and Molotov calculated the positive international impact of German peasants who lived and prospered under Soviet rule in spite of collectivation, Gulag and the Moscow Trials. And as I understand it, the evacuation of Germans and Poles from Volhynia was at that time neither intended nor enforced by the Soviet authorities. G?nther _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 4/22/2009 8:49 AM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 4/22/2009 8:49 AM From rhundt67 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 24 11:07:48 2009 From: rhundt67 at yahoo.com (Renee Hundt) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gutzke/Guzke and Knull Family Message-ID: <858744.63672.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, Looking for information regarding Amalia "Mollie" Gutzke/Guzke who married Gustaf Knull (b. 1883, d. 1945) and their children Paul (married Olga; 3 children - Elsa and 2 boys), Olga, Leokadia (Efrom Hundt -have much information on this) and Elsa (Hermann Ziermmer). Leokadia is from the German Colony of Elizabetpol, Ukraina. Thanks, Renee Hundt From ra_stein at telus.net Fri Apr 24 18:53:19 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:53:19 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gutzke/Guzke and Knull Family In-Reply-To: <858744.63672.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <858744.63672.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <783CEA5C35AE4A59987639C79AA3BCFC@RichardPC> Renee, Amalia's surname may be Gatzke as that name occured in the Elisabethpol area of Volhynia. Two girls named Amalia Gatzke were born in Rozyszcze parish, one on 4 Apr 1886 and the other on 5 Oct 1887. Also there were several Knull families in the same area. The St. Petersburg Archive index has a Gustav Knull born 9 Mar 1885, parents Christian Knull / Rosalie Schultz. He may be your Gustaf Knull. Four of Christian's brothers and their families migrated to Leduc, Alberta in 1901 and there are many descendants in Alberta. If this is the correct Gustav Knull, write to me privately and I will put you in touch with a Knull descendant who may have further information about the Christian Knull family. Regards, Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Renee Hundt" To: Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 12:07 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gutzke/Guzke and Knull Family > > Hello, > > Looking for information regarding Amalia "Mollie" Gutzke/Guzke who married > Gustaf Knull (b. 1883, d. 1945) and their children Paul (married Olga; 3 > children - Elsa and 2 boys), Olga, Leokadia (Efrom Hundt -have much > information on this) and Elsa (Hermann Ziermmer). Leokadia is from the > German Colony of Elizabetpol, Ukraina. > > Thanks, Renee Hundt > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sat Apr 25 18:43:20 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:43:20 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] For our Wisconsin members Message-ID: <49F3BC38.4090903@shaw.ca> I wanted to distribute this Bulletin Board posting through our mailing list as I thought it important and many of you might not see it on the Board. Someone from Germany is trying to contact family who originally lived in Wisconsin. Is there someone (especially perhaps in the Kenosha region) who could root around a little to see if you can help him out? You can contact the poster, Dieter Weiss at d.g.weiss at gmx.de Dieter is apparently planning to come to the convention and it would be nice if he could meet relatives at the same time. The posting reads: ------------------------------ "My grandparents moved to the US from Germany in 1923. I found the ship papers of my grandmother on the home page of Ellis Island foundation. There it said under relative in the US:"BR.I.L Fred Weiss Road No 1 Somers Kenosha,Wisc. and Husband Albert Weiss" My Grandfather immigrated earlier than my grandmother, but I didn't know that a brother of my grandfather was there as well. He originally was Friedrich Weiss and seemingly called himself Fred. In later research I found a photo of him, there his Last name is written Weis with only one s. The picture was definitely taken in the US as it had the imprint "Postcard" on the back. My grandparents moved back to Germany during the great depression in 1929. I don't know what happened to Fred Weiss (or Weis) and I haven't a clue how to look for him in the US. Weiss is a common name, the search time dates back 80 to 90 years and there are no registers in the US as far as I know. Any advise would be appreciated. As I am preparing my trip to the conference in Milwaukee in July I would have time for on site research as well." -------------------------- Thank you. -- Jerry Frank Calgary, AB From rroggow at yahoo.com Sun Apr 26 08:18:47 2009 From: rroggow at yahoo.com (Ronald Roggow) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Friedrick and Julianna (Masur) Breitkreuz (Breitkreitz) Family of Volhynia Message-ID: <573806.97172.qm@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, ? Looking for information on my greatgrandfather and grandmother, Friedrick and Julianna (Masur) Breitkreuz (Breitkreitz).? I have one source that mentions that they died in Balarka.? Their children were born in the 1880's-1890's.? Their children with married names in ( ) were, Pauline (Wisner), Julius Breitkreuz, Emilie (Braun), August Breitkreitz, who came to America in 1912 and 1914 and settled in Saginaw, Michigan, Caroline (Buchman), Rosalie (m. Julius Frank), who came to America in 1923 and settled in Saginaw, Michigan and was born in Zabokritzki (or Zabokritzkie) Volhynia and Julia (Beyer). ? Does have any information on these persons and/or know how I might find any birth or death records for them? ? Thank you. From gpvjem at sasktel.net Sun Apr 26 14:20:37 2009 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:20:37 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] MV Wilhelm Gustloff Message-ID: <668725D6D35A4F5C85A55F79C1B09487@Marsh> Does anyone know if there is a list or a partial list in existence of persons on board the ill fated ship the Wilhelm Gustloff that was torpedoed in the Baltic on January 30, 1945 by the Russians with the loss of over 9000 passengers? An Internet search proved fruitless. John Marsch Saskatchewan, Canada From Steinke.Jabs at t-online.de Sun Apr 26 14:30:00 2009 From: Steinke.Jabs at t-online.de (BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs) Date: 26 Apr 2009 21:30 GMT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland Message-ID: <1LyBxA-1XLZPU0@fwd08.t-online.de> Hello all, Julius Leopold Jabs, who was a younger brother of my great-grandfather Eduard August Jabs, was born in Oss?wka near Sierpc on September 4th 1865 and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on July 5th 1899. Also his son Robert Jabs was born and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on March 22nd 1898. (Source: Ev.-Augsb. church records of Sierpc; State archive of Plock.) I did not find this village in the Sierpc county. I've used the ShtetlSeeker of JewishGen, "Slownik geograficzny Kr?lestwa Polskiego i innych kraj?w slowianskich" ( http://www.dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/ ) and Jutta Dennerlein's UpstreamVistula.org . Perhaps it might be "Rumunki", which is between Jaworowo-Lipa, Rzeszotary-Zawady, Ostr?w, Rzeszotary-Pszczele and Rzeszotary-Chwaly. This area is few kilometers NE of Sierpc. Any help, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot! Gerhard From gpvjem at sasktel.net Sun Apr 26 15:04:41 2009 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:04:41 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? Message-ID: I received a request for research assistance for the name Boleslaw HRYNJKE. The given name of Boleslaw = Wilhelm, but the surname taken from a passport has me confused. It appears to be Slovac rather than Polish. I am inclined to think that it should possibly have been HRYNSKE. Any hints or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. John Marsch Saskatchewan Canada From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Apr 27 00:15:32 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:15:32 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> gpvjem schrieb: > > > I received a request for research assistance for the name Boleslaw HRYNJKE. > The given name of Boleslaw = Wilhelm, but the surname taken from a passport has me confused. It appears to be Slovac rather than Polish. I am inclined to think that it should possibly have been HRYNSKE. > Any hints or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Hello John, www.herby.com.pl offers several possible Polish sources: 146 x HRYNIAK 6 x HRYNIECKI 1 x HRYNIK 363 x HRYNIUK 16 x HRYNIUKA 64 x HRYNKO 20 x HRYNYK 80 x HRY?KO I think the last one sounds most similarly since the Polish ? is pronounced like nj. According to www.moikrewni.pl most of the actual HRY?KO events are in Western Silesia where the inhabitants are descendants of immigrants from the late Eastern Poland. G?nther From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Apr 27 06:06:35 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:06:35 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland In-Reply-To: <1LyBxA-1XLZPU0@fwd08.t-online.de> References: <1LyBxA-1XLZPU0@fwd08.t-online.de> Message-ID: <49F5ADDB.406@shaw.ca> The Rumunki you found is probably the correct one, though it is still a guess. There are several other Rumunki to the west and SW of Sierpc but they have different adjectives associated with their names. My modern map shows the one you found as Rumunki Str. Wies (Rumunki Old Village) but also Rumunki Chwaly (Rumunki by Chwaly). Jerry Frank Calgary, AB BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs wrote: > Hello all, > > Julius Leopold Jabs, who was a younger brother of my great-grandfather > Eduard August Jabs, was born in Oss?wka near Sierpc on September 4th > 1865 and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on July 5th 1899. Also his son > Robert Jabs was born and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on March 22nd 1898. > (Source: Ev.-Augsb. church records of Sierpc; State archive of Plock.) > > I did not find this village in the Sierpc county. > > I've used the ShtetlSeeker of JewishGen, "Slownik geograficzny > Kr?lestwa Polskiego i innych kraj?w slowianskich" > ( http://www.dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/ ) and > Jutta Dennerlein's UpstreamVistula.org . > > Perhaps it might be "Rumunki", which is between Jaworowo-Lipa, > Rzeszotary-Zawady, Ostr?w, Rzeszotary-Pszczele and Rzeszotary-Chwaly. > This area is few kilometers NE of Sierpc. > > Any help, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks a lot! > > Gerhard > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From LINDASUSAK at comcast.net Mon Apr 27 06:45:36 2009 From: LINDASUSAK at comcast.net (LINDASUSAK@comcast.net) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:45:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland In-Reply-To: <49F5ADDB.406@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <777395397.1578041240839936482.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Does anyone know where Lutheran church records are kept for a village named Wola Adamowa, near Chodecz for the years before 1800? ?I'm looking for my great-great-grandfather, Peter Ferchau, who supposedly lived there before 1824 (was one of the founders of Nowe Boryszewo) and was born in 1789 or 1790? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Frank" To: "BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs" Cc: "SGGEE" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 7:06:35 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland The Rumunki you found is probably the correct one, though it is still a guess. ?There are several other Rumunki to the west and SW of Sierpc but they have different adjectives associated with their names. My modern map shows the one you found as Rumunki Str. Wies (Rumunki Old Village) but also Rumunki Chwaly (Rumunki by Chwaly). Jerry Frank Calgary, AB BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs wrote: > Hello all, > > Julius Leopold Jabs, who was a younger brother of my great-grandfather > Eduard August Jabs, was born in Oss?wka near Sierpc on September 4th > 1865 and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on July 5th 1899. Also his son > Robert Jabs was born and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on March 22nd 1898. > (Source: Ev.-Augsb. church records of Sierpc; State archive of Plock.) > > I did not find this village in the Sierpc county. > > I've used the ShtetlSeeker of JewishGen, "Slownik geograficzny > Kr?lestwa Polskiego i innych kraj?w slowianskich" > ( http://www.dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/ ) and > Jutta Dennerlein's UpstreamVistula.org . > > Perhaps it might be "Rumunki", which is between Jaworowo-Lipa, > Rzeszotary-Zawady, Ostr?w, Rzeszotary-Pszczele and Rzeszotary-Chwaly. > This area is few kilometers NE of Sierpc. > > Any help, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks a lot! > > Gerhard > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > ? _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gary at warnerengineering.com Mon Apr 27 08:12:56 2009 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:12:56 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] [Fwd: Re: Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland] Message-ID: <49F5CB78.7060303@warnerengineering.com> To all, Further to my last message (which appears to be waiting for moderator approval due to the number of recipients), four of the children of the Peter Ferchau noted below were born in Wola Adamowka. Gary Warner SGGEE -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:06:04 -0700 From: Gary Warner To: LINDASUSAK at comcast.net CC: Jerry Frank , BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs , SGGEE References: <777395397.1578041240839936482.JavaMail.root at sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Linda, Our Master Pedigree Database has a Peter Fercho or Fechow or Ferchau born in about 1771. He dies in 1832 in Boryszewo, Plock, Warszawa, Poland. He marries Anna Rosine Boettcher in 1798 in Chodecz, as recorded in the Chodecz Catholic parish records. He later marries Anna Kristine Harmel in 1816, again as recorded in the Chodecz Catholic records. We 144 records of individuals connected to Boryszewo and lots of other Ferchau names in our database. Who are other people connected to the Peter Ferchau you seek? Gary Warner SGGEE LINDASUSAK at comcast.net wrote: > Does anyone know where Lutheran church records are kept for a village named Wola Adamowa, near Chodecz for the years before 1800? I'm looking for my great-great-grandfather, Peter Ferchau, who supposedly lived there before 1824 (was one of the founders of Nowe Boryszewo) and was born in 1789 or 1790? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Frank" > To: "BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs" > Cc: "SGGEE" > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 7:06:35 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland > > The Rumunki you found is probably the correct one, though it is still a > guess. There are several other Rumunki to the west and SW of Sierpc but > they have different adjectives associated with their names. > > My modern map shows the one you found as Rumunki Str. Wies (Rumunki Old > Village) but also Rumunki Chwaly (Rumunki by Chwaly). > > > Jerry Frank > Calgary, AB > > > > BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Julius Leopold Jabs, who was a younger brother of my great-grandfather >> Eduard August Jabs, was born in Oss?wka near Sierpc on September 4th >> 1865 and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on July 5th 1899. Also his son >> Robert Jabs was born and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on March 22nd 1898. >> (Source: Ev.-Augsb. church records of Sierpc; State archive of Plock.) >> >> I did not find this village in the Sierpc county. >> >> I've used the ShtetlSeeker of JewishGen, "Slownik geograficzny >> Kr?lestwa Polskiego i innych kraj?w slowianskich" >> ( http://www.dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/ ) and >> Jutta Dennerlein's UpstreamVistula.org . >> >> Perhaps it might be "Rumunki", which is between Jaworowo-Lipa, >> Rzeszotary-Zawady, Ostr?w, Rzeszotary-Pszczele and Rzeszotary-Chwaly. >> This area is few kilometers NE of Sierpc. >> >> Any help, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! >> Thanks a lot! >> >> Gerhard >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From Ursula.Barsch at web.de Sun Apr 26 15:48:42 2009 From: Ursula.Barsch at web.de (Ursula Barsch) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:48:42 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Message-ID: <1236613307@web.de> Hi Gerhard. Here are many Rumunki: http://mapa.szukacz.pl/?z=16m&n=53.4000&e=17.1500 Greetings from Germany. Ursula ____________________________________________________________________ Psssst! Schon vom neuen WEB.DE MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.produkte.web.de/messenger/?did=3123 From gary at warnerengineering.com Mon Apr 27 08:06:04 2009 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:06:04 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland In-Reply-To: <777395397.1578041240839936482.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <777395397.1578041240839936482.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <49F5C9DC.1040801@warnerengineering.com> Linda, Our Master Pedigree Database has a Peter Fercho or Fechow or Ferchau born in about 1771. He dies in 1832 in Boryszewo, Plock, Warszawa, Poland. He marries Anna Rosine Boettcher in 1798 in Chodecz, as recorded in the Chodecz Catholic parish records. He later marries Anna Kristine Harmel in 1816, again as recorded in the Chodecz Catholic records. We 144 records of individuals connected to Boryszewo and lots of other Ferchau names in our database. Who are other people connected to the Peter Ferchau you seek? Gary Warner SGGEE LINDASUSAK at comcast.net wrote: > Does anyone know where Lutheran church records are kept for a village named Wola Adamowa, near Chodecz for the years before 1800? I'm looking for my great-great-grandfather, Peter Ferchau, who supposedly lived there before 1824 (was one of the founders of Nowe Boryszewo) and was born in 1789 or 1790? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Frank" > To: "BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs" > Cc: "SGGEE" > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 7:06:35 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Place search: ''Rumunki Sierpeckie'' in Sierpc county, Russ-Poland > > The Rumunki you found is probably the correct one, though it is still a > guess. There are several other Rumunki to the west and SW of Sierpc but > they have different adjectives associated with their names. > > My modern map shows the one you found as Rumunki Str. Wies (Rumunki Old > Village) but also Rumunki Chwaly (Rumunki by Chwaly). > > > Jerry Frank > Calgary, AB > > > > BirgitSteinke&GerhardAJabs wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Julius Leopold Jabs, who was a younger brother of my great-grandfather >> Eduard August Jabs, was born in Oss?wka near Sierpc on September 4th >> 1865 and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on July 5th 1899. Also his son >> Robert Jabs was born and died in Rumunki Sierpeckie on March 22nd 1898. >> (Source: Ev.-Augsb. church records of Sierpc; State archive of Plock.) >> >> I did not find this village in the Sierpc county. >> >> I've used the ShtetlSeeker of JewishGen, "Slownik geograficzny >> Kr?lestwa Polskiego i innych kraj?w slowianskich" >> ( http://www.dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/ ) and >> Jutta Dennerlein's UpstreamVistula.org . >> >> Perhaps it might be "Rumunki", which is between Jaworowo-Lipa, >> Rzeszotary-Zawady, Ostr?w, Rzeszotary-Pszczele and Rzeszotary-Chwaly. >> This area is few kilometers NE of Sierpc. >> >> Any help, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! >> Thanks a lot! >> >> Gerhard >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Apr 27 09:26:41 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:26:41 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> References: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> Message-ID: <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> G?nther B?hm schrieb: > 80 x HRY?KO > > I think the last one sounds most similarly since the Polish ? is > pronounced like nj. According to www.moikrewni.pl most of the actual > HRY?KO events are in Western Silesia where the inhabitants are > descendants of immigrants from the late Eastern Poland. > Hello John, the name HRY?KO is indeed originally Ukrainian. The spelling is ??????? where the ? is in Ukrainian pronounced like the German H. The Russian and Ukrainian combination ?? is equivalent to the Polish ? why the name may be transcribed to the German or English HRIN'KO resp. HRINJKO. The Ukrainian politician Hryhoriy Fedorovych HRYN'KO (???????? ????????? ???????, Grigoriy Fyodorovich GRIN'KO) was a Soviet finance minister and victim of the Moscow Trials in 1938. G?nther From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Apr 27 10:09:18 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:09:18 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> References: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> Message-ID: In other words John, you might be looking at the equivalent of the Germanic surname Gruenke - maybe, perhaps??? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: G?nther B?hm Date: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:29 am Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? To: Wolhynien-Liste > G?nther B?hm schrieb: > >???? 80 x HRY?KO > > > > I think the last one sounds most similarly since the Polish ? > is > > pronounced like nj. According to www.moikrewni.pl most of the > actual > > HRY?KO events are in Western Silesia where the inhabitants are > > descendants of immigrants from the late Eastern Poland. > >?? > Hello John, > the name HRY?KO is indeed originally Ukrainian. The spelling is > ??????? > where the ? is in Ukrainian pronounced like the German H. The > Russian > and Ukrainian combination ?? is equivalent to the Polish ? why > the name > may be transcribed to the German or English HRIN'KO resp. > HRINJKO. The > Ukrainian politician Hryhoriy Fedorovych HRYN'KO (???????? > ????????? > ???????, Grigoriy Fyodorovich GRIN'KO) was a Soviet finance > minister and > victim of the Moscow Trials in 1938. > > G?nther > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From benovich at imt.net Mon Apr 27 11:01:32 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:01:32 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke Message-ID: <00a601c9c762$33a20b70$0500a8c0@richard01> I've just accidentally run into a historian who seems to be specializing in the subject of Germans in eastern Europe, and in Poland in particular. Some on the list may be interested. One of his books deals with Masurian Germans who spoke Polish. Another is called "Orphans of Versailles. The Germans in Western Poland, 1918-1939." If one goes to www.worldcat.com, you can find a list of his productions by doing a search under "Blanke, Richard." Another thing he wrote may not appear there. It's in a book called, "Germans and Eastern Europe. Cultural Identities and Cultural Differences," (1999), edited by K. Bullivant and others. The relevant chapter by Blanke is on pp. 37-56, "When Germans and Poles Lived Together." I hope this will be of some interest for at least a few of us. Dick B. -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 4/27/2009 6:19 AM From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Apr 27 12:15:00 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:15:00 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke In-Reply-To: <00a601c9c762$33a20b70$0500a8c0@richard01> References: <00a601c9c762$33a20b70$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: Richard, I think the correct address is worldcat.org Do you know if the book is in English?? I see it is part of a German language Series so was interested in that. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Benert Date: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:05 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke To: SGGEE Mail List > I've just accidentally run into a historian who seems to be > specializing in > the subject of Germans in eastern Europe, and in Poland in > particular.? Some > on the list may be interested.? One of his books deals with > Masurian Germans > who spoke Polish.? Another is called "Orphans of > Versailles.? The Germans in > Western Poland, 1918-1939."? If one goes to > www.worldcat.com, you can find a > list of his productions by doing a search under "Blanke, Richard." > > Another thing he wrote may not appear there.? It's in a > book called, > "Germans and Eastern Europe.? Cultural Identities and > Cultural Differences," > (1999), edited by K. Bullivant and others.? The relevant > chapter by Blanke > is on pp. 37-56, "When Germans and Poles Lived Together." > > I hope this will be of some interest for at least a few of us. > > Dick B. > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Apr 27 12:49:18 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:49:18 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke In-Reply-To: <00a601c9c762$33a20b70$0500a8c0@richard01> References: <00a601c9c762$33a20b70$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: Excerpts from "Orphans of Versailles" are available on line through GOOGLE Books.? Mr. Blanke is Professor of History at the University of Maine. http://www.umaine.edu/history/faculty/blanke.htm Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Benert Date: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:05 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke To: SGGEE Mail List > I've just accidentally run into a historian who seems to be > specializing in > the subject of Germans in eastern Europe, and in Poland in > particular.? Some > on the list may be interested.? One of his books deals with > Masurian Germans > who spoke Polish.? Another is called "Orphans of > Versailles.? The Germans in > Western Poland, 1918-1939."? If one goes to > www.worldcat.com, you can find a > list of his productions by doing a search under "Blanke, Richard." > > Another thing he wrote may not appear there.? It's in a > book called, > "Germans and Eastern Europe.? Cultural Identities and > Cultural Differences," > (1999), edited by K. Bullivant and others.? The relevant > chapter by Blanke > is on pp. 37-56, "When Germans and Poles Lived Together." > > I hope this will be of some interest for at least a few of us. > > Dick B. > From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Apr 27 13:25:47 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:25:47 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: References: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> Message-ID: <49F614CB.3080707@ish.de> Jerry Frank schrieb: > In other words John, you might be looking at the equivalent of the Germanic surname Gruenke - maybe, perhaps??? Jerry, more likely vice versa since Hrin'ko and Grin'ko are also Ukrainian and Russian given names and as surnames quite common and I just found them back to 1826 in a khutor near Zmiyev****, oblast Charkov. G?nther From GHBoehm at ish.de Mon Apr 27 13:56:44 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:56:44 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: References: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> Message-ID: <49F61C0C.2010604@ish.de> > In other words John, you might be looking at the equivalent of the Germanic surname Gruenke - maybe, perhaps??? > and I just found them back to 1826 Jerry, ????????????????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ? ??????????? ???????????? *???? ???????* ?? ????? ???????. ?? ?????? ??????? ?? 20 ???? 1391 ?. (a "sir GRIN'KO" mentioned June 20th, 1391 and related to the town of Sokolets, Bulgaria) G?nther From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Apr 27 15:18:44 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:18:44 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: <49F61C0C.2010604@ish.de> References: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> <49F61C0C.2010604@ish.de> Message-ID: Thanks G?nther. It did not mean to suggest that Grinko was not a valid Russian surname.? However, if the person in question (John does not say) were of German ethnic heritage, then perhaps Gruenke (sometimes spelled Grynke in Polish records) would be rendered as ??????? on a Russian passport.? When transliterated back into English, it could come out as Hrynke. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: G?nther B?hm Date: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:01 pm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? To: Wolhynien-Liste > > In other words John, you might be looking at the equivalent of > the Germanic surname Gruenke - maybe, perhaps??? > > > and I just found them back to 1826 > > Jerry, > ????????????????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ? ??????????? > ???????????? *???? ???????* ?? ????? ???????. ?? ?????? ??????? > ?? 20 ???? 1391 ?. > > (a "sir GRIN'KO" mentioned June 20th, 1391 and related to the > town of Sokolets, Bulgaria) > > G?nther > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From benovich at imt.net Mon Apr 27 16:26:18 2009 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:26:18 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke References: <00a601c9c762$33a20b70$0500a8c0@richard01> Message-ID: <010b01c9c78f$91c4bbd0$0500a8c0@richard01> Sorry for making rash assumptions. Yes, of course, it's www.WorldCat.org. Since the title is in English, Jerry, I'm just assuming it's in English. But then you know how it goes with my assumptions. I think I saw one of his books with a German title. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Frank To: Richard Benert Cc: SGGEE Mail List Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke Richard, I think the correct address is worldcat.org Do you know if the book is in English? I see it is part of a German language Series so was interested in that. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Benert Date: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:05 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke To: SGGEE Mail List > I've just accidentally run into a historian who seems to be > specializing in > the subject of Germans in eastern Europe, and in Poland in > particular. Some > on the list may be interested. One of his books deals with > Masurian Germans > who spoke Polish. Another is called "Orphans of > Versailles. The Germans in > Western Poland, 1918-1939." If one goes to > www.worldcat.com, you can find a > list of his productions by doing a search under "Blanke, Richard." > > Another thing he wrote may not appear there. It's in a > book called, > "Germans and Eastern Europe. Cultural Identities and > Cultural Differences," > (1999), edited by K. Bullivant and others. The relevant > chapter by Blanke > is on pp. 37-56, "When Germans and Poles Lived Together." > > I hope this will be of some interest for at least a few of us. > > Dick B. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 4/27/2009 6:19 AM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 4/27/2009 6:19 AM From GHBoehm at ish.de Tue Apr 28 00:23:43 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:23:43 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname HRYNJKE ? In-Reply-To: References: <49F55B94.9080304@ish.de> <49F5DCC1.8030204@ish.de> <49F61C0C.2010604@ish.de> Message-ID: <49F6AEFF.8040503@ish.de> Jerry Frank schrieb: > It did not mean to suggest that Grinko was not a valid Russian > surname. However, if the person in question (John does not say) were > of German ethnic heritage, then perhaps Gruenke (sometimes spelled > Grynke in Polish records) would be rendered as ??????? on a Russian > passport. When transliterated back into English, it could come out as > Hrynke. Hello Jerry, even the German spelling GR?NKE may be found in the IGI earliest in Kashubian Pomerania and Poland but nowhere in western or central Germany. That's why it seems to be worth to direct the research for the name origin - if of interest - at least into both directions. G?nther From virtualtoast at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 09:02:58 2009 From: virtualtoast at gmail.com (Cliff Kruger) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:02:58 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Google Images of Volhynia and Congress Poland Message-ID: For researchers of Volhynia and Congress Poland who have not discovered this resource yet, here is a source for maps, historical photos and other images. Go to the Google search engine, click on their Images link, and within the Images search box, type in Volhynia or Congress Poland (other another region if you wish). Currently, a search for Volhynia provides 3,600 images, including 3,700 photos (many of which are historical photos), and lots of maps. A Congress Poland search offers over one million images. The search can be narrowed by "line drawings" (which includes maps) and "photo content" (which includes historical photos). There are other options available to narrow searches as well. The source of the image is included and tends to provide some information about the image. From lloydfriedrick at telus.net Tue Apr 28 10:37:48 2009 From: lloydfriedrick at telus.net (Lloyd Friedrick) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:37:48 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] how to Message-ID: <5DB415C7E4144E27A1025A59CD6328B0@LloydPC> I forgot the protocol to have someone sign on to our listserve. Does one put the word subscribe in the subject line or in the body of the email ? Pls help lloyd friedrick in Victoria From lloydfriedrick at telus.net Tue Apr 28 10:50:00 2009 From: lloydfriedrick at telus.net (Lloyd Friedrick) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:50:00 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] re last mess Message-ID: <640067A77D874A80BED5193CFFA348A6@LloydPC> Re last message Sorry to bother everyone re subscribe..................I just forgot to observe the dropdown menu on the SGGEE home page. Learned a less on this morning.........take time to read the pages. lloyd friedrick From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Tue Apr 28 10:53:19 2009 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:53:19 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] how to In-Reply-To: <5DB415C7E4144E27A1025A59CD6328B0@LloydPC> References: <5DB415C7E4144E27A1025A59CD6328B0@LloydPC> Message-ID: The easiest method is to use our webpage http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia to subscribe.? That way you don't have to be concerned with correct terminology or where it goes. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Lloyd Friedrick Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:40 am Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] how to To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > I forgot the protocol to have someone sign on to our listserve. > > Does one put the word?? subscribe in the subject line > or in the body of the email ? > > Pls help > > lloyd friedrick in Victoria > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From zsorba99 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 28 12:20:12 2009 From: zsorba99 at yahoo.com (Allyn Brosz) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Richard Blanke In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <183516.79035.qm@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a link to "Orphans of Versailles" on Google Books: http://tinyurl.com/d3rv89 Also, "Germany and Eastern Europe: Cultural Indentities and Cultural Differences" http://tinyurl.com/cl94hs Best Wishes Allyn Allyn Brosz 3416 Oliver St. NW Washington, DC 20015-2554-16 Besser a Glatze als gar koine Hoor! ________________________________ From: "ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org" To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:38:35 PM Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 26 -----Inline Message Follows----- Excerpts from "Orphans of Versailles" are available on line through GOOGLE Books. Mr. Blanke is Professor of History at the University of Maine. http://www.umaine.edu/history/faculty/blanke.htm Jerry From walters.cathy at yahoo.com Tue Apr 28 13:29:02 2009 From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com (Cathy Walters) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung In-Reply-To: <20090427224238.120661C88108@mailout.genealogy.net> Message-ID: <660077.17772.qm@web57401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Can someone please translate,I joined them but I don't read German-surprize ! Guess they don't do English.Thanks for any help,Cathy in Elgin webmaster at ahnenforschung.org wrote: Hallo liebe Ahnen- und Familienforscher, Bedauerlicherweise wurde unser Forum von einem schwerwiegenden Computerschaden betroffen. Am Osterwochenende ist es zum Ausfall gleich mehrerer Speichermedien beim Compgen Verein gekommen, wodurch uns viele Daten verloren gegangen sind, gl?cklicherweise aber keine Beitr?ge. Mittlerweile konnten wir das Forum aber weitestgehend wiederherstellen bis auf einen Teil der Bilder sowie die Benutzeravatare. Auch wenn noch nicht alle Funktionen wieder verf?gbar sind, haben wir uns daher entschlossen, das Forum wieder aufzuschalten. Eine fr?here Information per eMail war leider aus technischen Gr?nden nicht m?glich, da alle pers?nlichen Daten nur in der Forumdatenbank gespeichert sind (Datenschutz). F?r die lange Anlaufzeit danken wir Euch, f?r Eure Geduld! Euer Team vom Forum Ahnenforschung http://forum.genealogy.net/forum/index.php ALWAYS A ROSE From ra_stein at telus.net Tue Apr 28 13:50:07 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:50:07 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung In-Reply-To: <660077.17772.qm@web57401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <660077.17772.qm@web57401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cathy, Internet translators can be tried. They don't give a perfect translation but usually one can get the general idea of the message. Below is the translation from Google Translator. Dick Stein ____________________ Hello dear ancestors and family researchers, Unfortunately, our forum of a serious injury affected computer. On Easter weekend, it is equal to the loss of several storage media at CompGen club has come forward so much data has been lost, but fortunately no contributions. Meanwhile, we have the forum but as far as to restore a portion of the images, and user avatars. Although not all functions are available, we have therefore decided that the Forum again Menu. An earlier information by e-mail was unfortunately not possible for technical reasons, since all personal data only in the forum database (Data Protection). For the long startup time, we thank you for your patience! Your team of Genealogy Forum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Walters" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung Can someone please translate,I joined them but I don't read German-surprize ! Guess they don't do English.Thanks for any help,Cathy in Elgin webmaster at ahnenforschung.org wrote: Hallo liebe Ahnen- und Familienforscher, Bedauerlicherweise wurde unser Forum von einem schwerwiegenden Computerschaden betroffen. Am Osterwochenende ist es zum Ausfall gleich mehrerer Speichermedien beim Compgen Verein gekommen, wodurch uns viele Daten verloren gegangen sind, gl?cklicherweise aber keine Beitr?ge. Mittlerweile konnten wir das Forum aber weitestgehend wiederherstellen bis auf einen Teil der Bilder sowie die Benutzeravatare. Auch wenn noch nicht alle Funktionen wieder verf?gbar sind, haben wir uns daher entschlossen, das Forum wieder aufzuschalten. Eine fr?here Information per eMail war leider aus technischen Gr?nden nicht m?glich, da alle pers?nlichen Daten nur in der Forumdatenbank gespeichert sind (Datenschutz). F?r die lange Anlaufzeit danken wir Euch, f?r Eure Geduld! Euer Team vom Forum Ahnenforschung http://forum.genealogy.net/forum/index.php ALWAYS A ROSE _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From shoning at q.com Tue Apr 28 14:17:12 2009 From: shoning at q.com (George Shoning) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:17:12 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung In-Reply-To: <660077.17772.qm@web57401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <20090427224238.120661C88108@mailout.genealogy.net> <660077.17772.qm@web57401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My translation: "Regrettably, our forum was hit by serious computer damage (a virus). Over the Easter weekend, several media servers went down at the Comgen Association (Club?) causing loss of a lot of data but no contracts, fortunately. In the meantime we have been able to restore the forum to a large extent, except for some images and user-specific information. We decided to open the forum again even though not all functions are available as yet. Regrettably, an earlier email was not possible for teachnical reasons, since all of the personal data is stored in the forum database (data security). We thank you for your patience for the long start-up time. Your team from the Genealogical Research Forum." George > Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:29:02 -0700 > From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung > > Can someone please translate,I joined them but I don't read German-surprize ! Guess they don't do English.Thanks for any help,Cathy in Elgin > > webmaster at ahnenforschung.org wrote: Hallo liebe Ahnen- und Familienforscher, > > Bedauerlicherweise wurde unser Forum von einem schwerwiegenden Computerschaden betroffen. Am Osterwochenende ist es zum Ausfall gleich mehrerer Speichermedien beim Compgen Verein gekommen, wodurch uns viele Daten verloren gegangen sind, gl?cklicherweise aber keine Beitr?ge. > > Mittlerweile konnten wir das Forum aber weitestgehend wiederherstellen bis auf einen Teil der Bilder sowie die Benutzeravatare. Auch wenn noch nicht alle Funktionen wieder verf?gbar sind, haben wir uns daher entschlossen, das Forum wieder aufzuschalten. > > Eine fr?here Information per eMail war leider aus technischen Gr?nden nicht m?glich, da alle pers?nlichen Daten nur in der Forumdatenbank gespeichert sind (Datenschutz). > > F?r die lange Anlaufzeit danken wir Euch, f?r Eure Geduld! > > Euer Team vom Forum Ahnenforschung > http://forum.genealogy.net/forum/index.php > > > > > ALWAYS A ROSE > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From birdlover18206 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 28 19:01:20 2009 From: birdlover18206 at hotmail.com (Joyce E.) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:01:20 +0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deciphering & locating Village Message-ID: I have a copy of a Polish death record for my ancestor Karoline Komers. I need help in trying to decipher her birth village and then locate it. I also need help in deciphering her father's name and the witness. Her husband was born in Kobylke, Wagrowiec, Posen. Their first child was born in Bobrowniki, Lipno, Bydgoszcy. I can send a copy of the death record. Thank you Joyce E. _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 From GHBoehm at ish.de Wed Apr 29 00:07:05 2009 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:07:05 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung In-Reply-To: References: <20090427224238.120661C88108@mailout.genealogy.net> <660077.17772.qm@web57401.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49F7FC99.5070200@ish.de> George Shoning schrieb: > My translation: > > "Regrettably, our forum was hit by serious computer damage (a virus). Over the Easter weekend, several media servers went down at the Comgen Association (Club?) > Hello George, the virus is your comment? There was in fact no mentioning of a software attack but of the mechanical failure of two harddisks. > causing loss of a lot of data but no contracts, fortunately. No mentioning of contracts, instead "no contributions" (verbal inputs). I am a member of two affected mailing lists of genealogy.net and can try to explain the situation: Since the failure is a hardware damage, the data must be restored by a specialized company. This job is done for the most part and being continued. A decision was made to use a locally separated mirror server and additional extern hardware backups in the future. G?nther From karlann at juno.com Wed Apr 29 05:08:13 2009 From: karlann at juno.com (karlann@juno.com) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:08:13 GMT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Richard Blanke Message-ID: <20090429.050813.5001.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> I searched for titles by Richard Blanke through the University of Washington library catalog, and it yielded not only all his books in their collection, but many reviews of the books and book reviews he has written on the research of other scholars on ethnic Germans in Poland. The UW library is part of the worldcat system for libraries and any member of the public and use the catalog for research. The url is http://www.lib.washington.edu/ If you want to actually read the articles or books, however, you might want to get them on interlibrary loan from a library you normally patronize. Karla Walters ____________________________________________________________ Grow your small business with email marketing. Click Now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTEFePAj4n7v8TY8MiNPAflBQdQxwrLm5wY8LLFdDFBvKHRpBJ8xk0/ From LINDASUSAK at comcast.net Wed Apr 29 05:28:54 2009 From: LINDASUSAK at comcast.net (LINDASUSAK@comcast.net) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:28:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deciphering & locating Village In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2048858099.2446501241008134215.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dear Joyce, I just transcribed (from old script) and translated a birth entry for my great-grandfather in Polish with the help of friends and a dictionary. If you want to send me yours, I'll look at it and try to translate it for you. ?Once you know the name of the village, you can probably find it on google map. lindasusak at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce E." To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:01:20 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Deciphering & locating Village I have a copy of a Polish death record for my ancestor Karoline Komers. I need help in trying to decipher her birth village and then locate it. I also need help in deciphering her father's name and the witness. Her husband was born in Kobylke, Wagrowiec, Posen. ?Their first child was born in Bobrowniki, Lipno, Bydgoszcy. I can send a copy of the death record. ?Thank you Joyce E. _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From walters.cathy at yahoo.com Wed Apr 29 05:29:16 2009 From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com (Cathy Walters) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ausfall des Forum f?r Ahnenforschung In-Reply-To: <741753.40584.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <858909.42516.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thank you George & Guenther,Cathy in Elgin Cathy Walters wrote: Thank You Ed & Richard,They lost some of the info,guess I'll have to see whats gone.Thank's ,Cathy Cathy Walters wrote: Can someone please translate,I joined them but I don't read German-surprize ! Guess they don't do English.Thanks for any help,Cathy in Elgin webmaster at ahnenforschung.org wrote: Hallo liebe Ahnen- und Familienforscher, Bedauerlicherweise wurde unser Forum von einem schwerwiegenden Computerschaden betroffen. Am Osterwochenende ist es zum Ausfall gleich mehrerer Speichermedien beim Compgen Verein gekommen, wodurch uns viele Daten verloren gegangen sind, gl?cklicherweise aber keine Beitr?ge. Mittlerweile konnten wir das Forum aber weitestgehend wiederherstellen bis auf einen Teil der Bilder sowie die Benutzeravatare. Auch wenn noch nicht alle Funktionen wieder verf?gbar sind, haben wir uns daher entschlossen, das Forum wieder aufzuschalten. Eine fr?here Information per eMail war leider aus technischen Gr?nden nicht m?glich, da alle pers?nlichen Daten nur in der Forumdatenbank gespeichert sind (Datenschutz). F?r die lange Anlaufzeit danken wir Euch, f?r Eure Geduld! Euer Team vom Forum Ahnenforschung http://forum.genealogy.net/forum/index.php ALWAYS A ROSE _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ALWAYS A ROSE ALWAYS A ROSE From jeffkrebs at shaw.ca Wed Apr 29 06:32:22 2009 From: jeffkrebs at shaw.ca (Jeff Krebs) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:32:22 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia In-Reply-To: <858909.42516.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <741753.40584.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <858909.42516.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good day Where can I write requesting information on my Wagner family that came from Annette in Volhynia in 1909? I'm trying to trace them back prior to coming to Annette and I have no more information. Thank you for your assistance. Jeff Krebs From ra_stein at telus.net Thu Apr 30 12:57:48 2009 From: ra_stein at telus.net (ra_stein@telus.net) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:57:48 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski Message-ID: <8ABE590B08274756908C4109CD8CEB64@RichardPC> Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname POBORSKI? I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community, in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans. Thanks for any help. Dick Stein From krushelh at telus.net Thu Apr 30 13:03:33 2009 From: krushelh at telus.net (Howard Krushel) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:03:33 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EFAA9FFF0841FF849372B4AFE20E2C@D24VBP91> Jeff: Pastor Frederick Rink's family lived in Annette and as a result he writes a couple of articles about this early Volhynien village; in "Wie liegt so weit, was mein einst war" he refers to some of the founding colonists and where they came from; for Wagner he says they probably came from Galicia(the Rink family originated in Josephsberg, Galicia); Galicia was settled by Germans from the south west corner of Germany; Wuerttemberg and the Rhineland Pfalz area; so a rough overview could be a migration in about 1781 into Galicia, with a subsequent move into Annette in about 1816; Other members might be able to help you further in tracking your Galician relatives, and as well a couple of sites might be helpful: www.galiziengermandescendents.org and www.galizien-online.de . Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Krebs Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:32 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia Good day Where can I write requesting information on my Wagner family that came from Annette in Volhynia in 1909? I'm trying to trace them back prior to coming to Annette and I have no more information. Thank you for your assistance. Jeff Krebs _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From jeffkrebs at shaw.ca Thu Apr 30 14:18:30 2009 From: jeffkrebs at shaw.ca (Jeff Krebs) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:18:30 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia In-Reply-To: <39EFAA9FFF0841FF849372B4AFE20E2C@D24VBP91> References: <39EFAA9FFF0841FF849372B4AFE20E2C@D24VBP91> Message-ID: Thank you Howard I'm going to send you two articles directly I found several years ago written my Fredrick Rink transcribed by J.M Richey. Interestingly, my grand aunt Antonia nee Wagner, when I interviewed her prior to her death, said she knew the Rink family. She was in her late 90s at the time and had difficulty remembering much as when she came to Canada, she was 6 years old. After reading the Rink articles, I became convinced that Wagners did come from the Josefsberg area in Galicia and may have even known my Krebs ancestors. Analyzing the data I've gathered is convincing but not definite as of yet. I'm a member of the www.galiziengermandescendents.org as well. Thank you for the other site. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Howard Krushel [mailto:krushelh at telus.net] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:04 PM To: 'Jeff Krebs'; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia Jeff: Pastor Frederick Rink's family lived in Annette and as a result he writes a couple of articles about this early Volhynien village; in "Wie liegt so weit, was mein einst war" he refers to some of the founding colonists and where they came from; for Wagner he says they probably came from Galicia(the Rink family originated in Josephsberg, Galicia); Galicia was settled by Germans from the south west corner of Germany; Wuerttemberg and the Rhineland Pfalz area; so a rough overview could be a migration in about 1781 into Galicia, with a subsequent move into Annette in about 1816; Other members might be able to help you further in tracking your Galician relatives, and as well a couple of sites might be helpful: www.galiziengermandescendents.org and www.galizien-online.de . Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Krebs Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:32 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Wagner family from Annette, Volhynia Good day Where can I write requesting information on my Wagner family that came from Annette in Volhynia in 1909? I'm trying to trace them back prior to coming to Annette and I have no more information. Thank you for your assistance. Jeff Krebs _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Spaghettitree at aol.com Thu Apr 30 19:07:20 2009 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski Message-ID: According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names, Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle High German, stiure stiuer. Maureen In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ra_stein at telus.net writes: Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname POBORSKI? I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community, in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans. Thanks for any help. Dick Stein _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) From BruceB2332 at aol.com Thu Apr 30 19:35:42 2009 From: BruceB2332 at aol.com (BruceB2332@aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:35:42 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 22 Message-ID: dICK, i AM STILL SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ON THE CHRISTIAN KNULL FAMILY. MY GRANDMOTHER WAS EMMA KNULL BUELOW; HER BROTHER WAS G8STAV KNULL. HE DIED IN UKRAINE DURING WW2. PLEASE SEND ME ANY INFORMATION ON THE KNULLS THAT YOU CAN. SINCERELY, BRUCE. W. BRAUN ************** Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http: %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) From BruceB2332 at aol.com Thu Apr 30 19:37:32 2009 From: BruceB2332 at aol.com (BruceB2332@aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:37:32 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 22 Message-ID: LEOKADIA KNULL IS MY GRANDMOTHER'S NEICE! HER FATHER WAS GUSTAV KNULL. PLEASE PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH HER IF YOU PLEASE. SINCERELY, pROFESSOR BRUCE W. BRAUN\ PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION AT WISCONSIN LUTHERAN COLLEGE IN MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN. tHANK YOU! BRUCE ************** Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) From BruceB2332 at aol.com Thu Apr 30 19:39:30 2009 From: BruceB2332 at aol.com (BruceB2332@aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:39:30 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 22 Message-ID: MY GRANDMNOTHER WAS ALSO FROM THE UKRAINE GERMAN COLONY OF ELISABETHPOL, WHERE HER FATHER WAS A GERMAN LUTHERAN A SCHOOL TEACHER. ANY INFORMATION YOU CAN SEND ME WILL BE GREATLY APPREACIEATED. THANK YOU. BRUCE BRAUN ************** Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F% 2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) From shoning at q.com Thu Apr 30 20:27:51 2009 From: shoning at q.com (George Shoning) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:27:51 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Other German terms: Z?llner, Steuereinnehmer(in), Steuerbeamte(r) George > From: Spaghettitree at aol.com > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:07:20 -0400 > To: ra_stein at telus.net; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Surname Poborski > > According to Hoffman's (Polish) Surnames and Bahlow's German Names, > Poborski is one spelling for tax-collector, coming off the root Poborc. In > German, a tax-collector is a Steuer or Steuerlein or Steurer, in Middle High > German, stiure stiuer. > > Maureen > > > In a message dated 4/30/2009 1:01:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > ra_stein at telus.net writes: > > Does anyone know if there is a German equivalent of the Polish surname > POBORSKI? > > I have a Gertrude Poborski married Michael Steinke (sometimes recorded as > Kaminski in Polish church records) living in Gawrony, a German community, > in the early to mid 1800's. They were Lutherans. > > Thanks for any help. > > Dick Stein > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the > web. Get the Radio Toolbar! > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From colnels at telus.net Thu Apr 30 20:33:43 2009 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:33:43 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801c9ca0d$a0d52a80$e27f7f80$@net> Hello: Is that the Gustav Knull born 09 March 1885 to Christian Knull and Rosalie Schultz probably in Antonowka,Volhynia? He has a brother Johann 11 Feb 1883. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of BruceB2332 at aol.com Sent: April-30-09 8:38 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 71, Issue 22 LEOKADIA KNULL IS MY GRANDMOTHER'S NEICE! HER FATHER WAS GUSTAV KNULL. PLEASE PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH HER IF YOU PLEASE. SINCERELY, pROFESSOR BRUCE W. BRAUN\ PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION AT WISCONSIN LUTHERAN COLLEGE IN MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN. tHANK YOU! BRUCE ************** Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol? redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.10/2088 - Release Date: 04/30/09 17:53:00