From worth_a at yahoo.com Mon Sep 1 05:15:41 2008 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 05:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BGer-Poland-Volhynia=5D_M=DCLLER_/_KURTZ_/_JANOTT_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?from_Grodziec_ev=2E?= In-Reply-To: <00a601c903c8$59d8e920$7199fea9@name54xk1bba18> Message-ID: <958304.89994.qm@web50801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Michael: You seem to have two questions: (1) What happened to the Lutheran church records of Grodziec from 1835-1837? The most likely answer is lost. In the Lutheran/Evangelical registers I've seen, each year had its own book. Although not apparent from microfilm, the original books are sometimes surprisingly thin. It is not terribly rare for one or two to have gotten lost/been stolen/destroyed over the years. If you are looking at FHL microfilm, the filmers filmed what the Archives could produce on the day the filmer was there. However, another possibility is misfiled. For example, I've found "missing" Roman Catholic registers misfiled with civil records at Polish State Archives. It might be worth contacting the Polish State Archives that covers Grodziec and asking if they have any leads on where the missing books could be found or what happened to them. (2) Where are the Grodziec records from 1796-1826? You have to divide this into two periods: (a) 1796-1808, and (b) 1808-1825. The reason is that in 1808 the Napoleonic Code was introduced into the Duchy of Warsaw, which required civil registration of births, marriages and deaths. An 1809 decree named clergy performing parish duties as de facto officials of civil registration. Thus, in the 1808-1825 period, civil records for protestants (i.e., Lutherans) and Jews are found in records kept by the Catholic Church. In 1825 the Napoleonic Code was repealed, and the law replacing it specified that from 1826 on registers of non-Catholics were to be maintained separately. That is why you are able to find exclusively Lutheran registers for Grodziec after 1826. You can locate the civil records (called Akta Stanu Cywilnego or "ASC") by searching for the records of the relevant gmina. For example, the village of Sady, which was later covered by the Gabin/Gombin Evangelical parish register, is covered in the ASC for the gmina of Zyck. Once you have the gmina for your village, check the online inventories of the local branch of the Polish State Archives. It is also worthwhile to check the local Roman Catholic Diocesan Archives, as sometimes records have survived there that have not survived in the State Archives. For the period before 1808, my impression is that churches kept records according to their own dictates. For protestants, the survival of these records and the information they contain seems to vary widely. The article by Fay Vogel Bussgang on "Russian Poland" in Sallyann Amdur Sack & Gary Mokotoff's "Avotaynu Guide to Jewish Genealogy," (Bergenfield, New Jersey, 2004) provides a great overview of which records were created when, and I think is well worth reading for all researchers in the area. Best of luck, Worth S. Anderson --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Michael Stockhausen wrote: > From: Michael Stockhausen > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] M?LLER / KURTZ / JANOTT from Grodziec ev. > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 3:58 PM > Does anyone know what happened to the missing church records > of Grodziec > Lutheran (near Konin)? > > In December 1832 my ancestor Christian M?LLER died in > Borowiec near > Grodziec. By 1838 his widow Katharina n?e KURTZ had > already married her > second husband Michael JANOTT from Konary. > This means that the marriage Michael JANOTT and Katharina > M?LLER n?e KURTZ > must have taken place between 1832 and 1838, most probably > in Grodziec > Luth. I was hoping to find their mariage record, because > it most probably > contains information on Katharina's birthplace and > perhaps her parents' > names. Unfortunately there is a gap in the church records > from 1835 to 1837 > (and I cannot find the record in 1833/34/38). > > Michael JANOTT died in 1850/135 at the age of 96! > Katharina JANOTT n?e > KURTZ was still alive at that time. I assume that she > was about 60 to 70 years old in 1850, so she probably died > in the 1850s or > 1860s. Unfortunately there are a few more gaps in those two > decades, I am > therefore not very confident that I will be able to find > her death record. > > Michael Janott's first wife Dorothea Elisabeth KURTZ > (perhaps Katharina's > aunt or sister?) died in 1832. > > My first thought regarding the missing books was that > perhaps they never > existed, e.g. because the church didn't have a pastor > for a few years. Just > recently, though, I saw copies of two birth records from > Grodziec from 1820 > and 1822 - I found them in the Lodz marriage supplements > (alegata). This > proves that there must have been more books than the ones > kept in the > Polish State Archive and filmed by the LDS, which start in > 1827. So again > my question what happened to the records from 1796 to 1826 > and all the > other missing documents? > > Besides, does anyone have any additional information on the > above mentioned > family? > > Thanks and regards > Michael Stockhausen > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Spaghettitree at aol.com Tue Sep 2 07:49:26 2008 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:49:26 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kwiatkowski - Bluemke Message-ID: Hello Otto - I believe we have crossed paths here before! And it is most tempting to think that perhaps our families are linked somewhere, back a few centuries, perhaps, by virtue of both of us having Schoenke and Sch?nke in the Baltic region. If you have any knowledge of an Otto or Anton Schoenke and Katherine von Federau in or around Frauenberg/Frombork or K?nigsberg/Kaliningrad, around the early 1800-1845 period, then we would definitely have a connection. You are absolutely correct in that (in my 22 years of doing Germanic research for people) the spellings of names vary greatly, from place to place, from time to time, from person to person, and as we see here so eloquently, from language to language, so we cannot really consider a different spelling to be incorrect. You are also correct in that we must prove our connections by a paper trail. But I would take exception, please, on the notion that Americans have an "obsession" with pronunciations - that's just a whole new and interesting concept to me, Otto. I should think if it applies to Americans, then it applies to everyone across the board. I know a smattering of German, French, Spanish and Latin, very little Polish and Russian - and in the process of long years of research,I've discovered most Americans don't want to learn foreign languages, though it helps a great deal in this genealogical research as we see here, thanks to people like you. Each language is performed differently, and each has many, many local versions, and each evolves over the centuries. And the language each of us learns as a child is necessarily different from that learned as an adult. I am far better at pronouncing French and Spanish than I am German, especially Plattdeutsch. By the way, my family pronounces Schoenky as "Shane'-key". And it still comes out as a sneeze by most people, no matter how many times I spell it or pronounce it. Most Americans just cannot handle the German (or American!) pronunciation at all, and I do not answer to the German version either. Numerous German friends have informed me I am pronouncing my own name incorrectly, but in America, not true. I understand that does not work in Germany. That's why I ask everyone to just call me Maureen! I am aware of the -ke ending and its meanings, so likewise you surely know that Schoen means beautiful or handsome - so perhaps your 'long-shanks' are handsome ones, to boot! I consider my father and his brothers and their father to have been handsome, but tall, no, none to my knowledge. There are thousands of Schoenke people in America, lots of them in and around Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and more in Texas and elsewhere, but I have found only one case of another Schoenky family, in Milwaukee. That spelling is just an aberration, which I suspect was caused by an American in St. Louis, Missouri who had no knowledge - or perhaps just did not care - about the correct spelling, and my immigrant ancestor did not bother to enforce the Schoenke spelling either; as I have been told, he resisted learning English (though his wife did) and was a very tough, cold, old-school Prussian. He was a cabinet-maker. His wife was not exactly a sweetheart, either (from Cuxhaven). Maureen Schoenky ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Spaghettitree at aol.com Tue Sep 2 08:55:06 2008 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:55:06 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kwiatkowski - Bluemke Message-ID: Hello again, Otto - I should have included the fact that my brothers and I were forbidden to learn a word of German (though we learned what Verboten! meant). There remains a very strong stigma from WW I and WW II for anyone and anything German in America, especially from people of Jewish heritage. I have even been accused of having something to do with Hitler's holocaust, simply because of the name Schoenky! Never mind that I was far too young, never in Europe (until 1999) and am as horrified as anyone else over that insane genocide! I have learned some German, word by word, though by no means conversational, as a necessity in order to understand my own genealogical heritage and help others to do the same. If anyone knows about a dictionary in Polish or Russian similar to the German one (German-English Genealogical Dictionary by Ernest Thode) I would love to know about it. I use Thode's book (in addition to numerous other dictionaries and texts) on a daily basis. All that aside, German foods and beers and Octoberfests and many, many Germanic customs are immensely popular here, and increasing - i.e., profit-making. Adolphus and Gussie Busch in St. Louis did rather well! And so did Griesedieck and Schlitz and Lempe and Pabst and many, many others, at least until Busch took over - and now they are no longer the top beer barons either. The best thing I see about all these message boards is bringing people of differing heritages together with the common denominator of genealogy; when you get right down to it, we are all family, after all. Maureen Schoenky ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Tue Sep 2 10:21:16 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:21:16 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German culture in North Amercia; Was Re: Kwiatkowski - Bluemke In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a casual observation, though no means scientific, I have often agreed with the "melting pot" term applied to immigration to the United States.? Migrants there were generally quick to drop their original language, etc. and blend into US culture, often losing their connection to the homeland.? In Canada, I observe more of a "stew pot" situation.? There is some blending to a unique Canadian flavor while at the same time individual components clearly remain to be seen and tasted.? While my Volhynian German cousins in Michigan were worshiping and communicating only in English already by the 1930s, those of us in Canada (2nd generation born here) were still worshiping with the German language in the mid 1950s and schools still offered instruction in German.?? This is of course a broad based observation and individual experiences will vary. One problem for me is that current German festivals of various sorts always seem to emphasize the beer hall, lederhosen, and oomp-pah-pah caricature of German culture.? This is NOT the culture of our Russian German ancestors and yet some of our supportive societies seem to think it is.? It would be nice to be able to define and celebrate are more uniquely Russian German perspective but I'm not sure that we know what that is. I have never been really accused of any problems associated with German history though only a few years ago a Polish person asked if I had any connection the infamous Hans Frank, Governor General of Poland after the Nazi invasion.? I don't.? It is far more often suggested that my roots must be Jewish because of my surname.? Again, it is not. Jerry Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Spaghettitree at aol.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 10:18 am Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kwiatkowski - Bluemke To: otto at schienke.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > Hello again, Otto - I should have included the fact that my > brothers and I > were forbidden to learn a word of German (though we learned what > Verboten! > meant).? There remains a very strong stigma from WW I and > WW II for anyone and > anything German in America, especially from people of Jewish > heritage.? I have > even been accused of having something to do with Hitler's > holocaust, simply > because of the name Schoenky!?? Never mind that I was > far too young, never in > Europe (until 1999) and am as horrified as anyone else over that > insane genocide!?? > I have learned some German, word by word, though by no means > conversational,? > as a necessity in order to understand my own genealogical > heritage and help > others to do the same.?? > > If anyone knows about a dictionary in Polish or Russian similar > to the German > one (German-English Genealogical Dictionary by Ernest Thode) I > would love to > know about it.? I use Thode's book (in addition to numerous > other dictionaries > and texts) on a daily basis.?? > > All that aside, German foods and beers and Octoberfests and > many, many > Germanic? customs are immensely popular here, and > increasing - i.e., profit-making.? > ?Adolphus and Gussie Busch in St. Louis did rather > well!? And so did > Griesedieck and Schlitz and Lempe and Pabst and many, many > others, at least until > Busch took over - and now they are no longer the top beer barons > either.? > > The best thing I see about all these message boards is bringing > people of > differing heritages together with the common denominator of > genealogy; when you > get right down to it, we are all family, after all.?? > > Maureen Schoenky > > > ************** > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. > Find your travel deal here. > ????? > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From otto at schienke.com Tue Sep 2 11:01:44 2008 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:01:44 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Understanding Names Message-ID: <9A10C695-7C70-424E-A2CE-5C5BBE747FCF@schienke.com> Good afternoon Maureen, I will correspond with you privately. . .We may share a commonality. The zest you express in your writing is an indicator... :D I will cover this *point here for the benefit of the List-Serv members. Surnames are family history books and written words are like recorded magnetic tapes, plug them into your mind and listen to the sounds they produce as you speak. May those sounds be in high fidelity. You used the term "Americans have an "*obsession" with pronunciations" I would be overjoyed if they did! If you reread my E-letter to the ListServ you will become aware that I used the term "compulsion". I used it as a euphemism to keep from saying what perhaps I should have, the phrase, "lazy speech habits". We are into an era referred to as 'the dumbing of America'. German is a precisely sounded out language. So is Polish, even with tonal pitch in places. The British with their form of 'official' English are precise in their sounds. The Americans. . . their 'official' written English is excellent, until they speak. We really are a nation of coined sounds and words peculiar to mixed cultures and background. I can almost type people to area by their speech inflections. Such, of course, is similar to all nations. Language is a living thing in a constant flux. Due to technological advances here in the US we are a hotbed of language creativity. Words conforming to a 6th to 8th grade level of language study suffice for most communication, which is the purpose of speech. What I object to are conversations such as overheard by me, e.g. "Jeet"...? Nojew"? which interpreted is, "Did you eat? No. Did you?" Note that the slang terms vibrate at the tip of the tongue... Hardly have to move the lips. :D Most surname research is approached as a topic of onomasiology. (a branch of lexicology) I much prefer the method resurrected by the computer code industry, to identify code strings, referred to as 'semasiology'. Simply described, break the name into individual pieces and examine them, asking, what am I looking at? New? Old? Otherwise? Where did the sounds originate? What is in a name anyway? I will use my surname 'Schienke' and 'school' to illustrate. I find that 'sch' is a Germanic consonant grouping sounded out as 'sh' by Germans. (it does not exist in Polish, hence the Polish use of 'Sz' sounded out as 'sh') Another spelling by the way, "Szynke", which some of my relatives had to use but changed it back to its original form of Schienke upon stepping on US soil. The Dutch flatland German, Plattdeutsch, 'sch' is sounded out as 'sk'. What becomes significant about the pronunciation of 'school'? (be mindful that many dialects of Platt exist, even in Holland) My niece met a young couple in the Chicago area with the surname 'Schienke', pronounced sounding the diphthong, "Skee~en'keh". They were Dutch. Next we must deal with the ancient diphthong 'ie' (diphthong = two- sound) The surname is pronounced "Schee~en'keh. No language rules existed until recently and the diphthong of yesteryear is not recognized as one, causing more than any other part of the name, the multitude of spelling variations in existence today. I find the 'ie' diphthong common in the 1400-1500's Dutch (dutch is given to 'ie' diphthong use) and also the East Frisian. These foregoing serve as indicators pointing... (at what?) The East Prussian Platt has a mix of the Old Prussian (extinct by manipulation) words and word parts in it... -the jury is still out on this... Trust me... Still, I must consider it. Old Prussian: ?AN > ?is acc sg schan 4917 schan 5110 schan 532 schan 536 schan 552 schan 5517 schan 575 schan 5710 schan 7915 schan 8113 schan 8313 schan 85 schan 1034 schan 10328 Schan 107 schan 117 schian 99 schien 492 schien 1317 schien 133 schen 7913 schen 8116 schan I 5 schan I 5 schian II 11 schin 799 schin 819 sien 11918 THE 5th PRINCIPLE OF THE RECONSTRUCTION. The process /?/ > /?/ > (in the unstressed position which often was end of the word) > /i/ caused merger of the ?- and i-types of declension. This merger, as well as the merger of the i- and ja-types of declension, was propped by palatalization of consonants, the evidence of which may be seen in such variations of spelling, as acc. etwerpsennian III 45 / etwerpsennien III 71 < acc. *-(n)jan, corresponding to etwerpsennin III 65 of the mixed ja-/i-type of the 16th c. nom. (busennis - acc. gulsennin) and showing no kind of any ending *-ijan which W.Smoczynski tries to find here. ? No Baltic j of the ending acc. *-jan could be preserved in testified Prussian as it is obvious in such variations of spelling as (2x) accusative of the ja-stem Noseilis: naseilen I 7, naseilen I 9 corresponding to naseylien II 7, naseylien II 9. The Prussian l of the 16th c. was palatal nearing to German l (cf. the same in German Lithuanian dialects) what is clear in rendering the typical a-stem nom. pl. kaulei III 101 with the innovative accusative pl. of the "palatal" (mixed ja-/i-) declension kaulins (ibid.). This was the reason of the omitted i in naseilen [Nota bene:such facts show that the spelling in the catechisms was influenced by Polish tradition with its letter i signing palatalization of the previous consonant: it is enough to compare Pr. mien, tien, sien = Pol. mi?, ci?, si?!] ? The same evidence of the palatalization, as etwerpsennian / etwerpsennien, are spellings of the acc. masc. schan I 5, III 1034, 10328 = schianIII 999 = schien III 1317, 1332 and even fem. schan, schien, schen III 7913, 8116 (the spelling schan reflecting palatal character of this consonant < *sj). ?INS > ?is acc pl m schins 37 schins 39 Next we move on to the consonant 'N' ... Kinda lonely huh? Sound it and hold the sound... Just like a Tibetan Buddhist chant... :D I oft joked about changing my name to "Sin", everyone recognizes it in symbol form and is familiar with it. :D The suffix 'ke', sounded out as 'keh' has already been aired in the previous e-letter. . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of March 23, 2008- ________________________________ "Each of us. . . A bundle of possibilities." From otto at schienke.com Tue Sep 2 12:25:59 2008 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:25:59 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German culture in North Amercia; Was Re: Kwiatkowski - Bluemke In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F42B579-2405-4AE9-8C79-94FAC60E96D6@schienke.com> I just read all of Jerry's reply and stated, "Amen!." On being German: (a generic catch-phrase) When I started first grade in 1943 it coincided with the US entering into War in Europe.. . I spoke only the German of my parents. (which my cousin J?rgen makes apologies for) :D I did not know I was a "German". . . I asked my parents, "Who are these Germans they all talk about?" (Wir sind diese Leute 'German' die immer sprechen von?) I saw my first and second grade female teachers, Anglo Saxon/English and flag-waving, as spike-heeled and whip wielding... :D The child in me still resents their bigotry expressed to me in front of all the class. If they were alive I would still bean them with a well-aimed snowball... or two, or three. . . The memory and emotion of that little boy never ceases to amaze me. As an old man I chide my old crony friends from the WW2 days that without my relatives none of them would have achieved hero status and couldn't tell war stories while drinking German beer. (few realize that the nazi bit was similar to our US civil war, two sides to the issue and relatives died on both sides over it) The History Channel and Hollywood are in love with things German. Tom Cruise will release a film in December on Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg titled 'Valkyrie'. (plot to kill Hitler in east prussia) Claus was on the other side of the Nazi issue. On German food: So true! We are being handed Bavarian and Austrian culture and food, from schnitzel to tortes under the catch-phrase "German". I have no problem with finding Prussian/Polish food. I find all of the recipes and food I am familiar with, referring to wonderful dishes and desserts of nobility that gladden the heart. Unless you are Austrian or Bavarian and delight in your ethnic foods and Lederhosen, look for Polish restaurants and Polish fare. All of our foodstuffs are there! Type into Google "Polish recipes" and review what is offered to you. You will be delighted. Some of the best soup dishes in the world are Polish. One should not be hesitant to say "Polish". . Hesitancy reminds me of my Anglo grade-school teachers... -o. On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Jerry Frank wrote: > As a casual observation, though no means scientific, I have often > agreed with the "melting pot" term applied to immigration to the > United States. Migrants there were generally quick to drop their > original language, etc. and blend into US culture, often losing > their connection to the homeland. In Canada, I observe more of a > "stew pot" situation. There is some blending to a unique Canadian > flavor while at the same time individual components clearly remain > to be seen and tasted. While my Volhynian German cousins in > Michigan were worshiping and communicating only in English already > by the 1930s, those of us in Canada (2nd generation born here) were > still worshiping with the German language in the mid 1950s and > schools still offered instruction in German. This is of course a > broad based observation and individual experiences will vary. > > One problem for me is that current German festivals of various sorts > always seem to emphasize the beer hall, lederhosen, and oomp-pah-pah > caricature of German culture. This is NOT the culture of our > Russian German ancestors and yet some of our supportive societies > seem to think it is. It would be nice to be able to define and > celebrate are more uniquely Russian German perspective but I'm not > sure that we know what that is. > > I have never been really accused of any problems associated with > German history though only a few years ago a Polish person asked if > I had any connection the infamous Hans Frank, Governor General of > Poland after the Nazi invasion. I don't. It is far more often > suggested that my roots must be Jewish because of my surname. > Again, it is not. > > > Jerry Frank . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of March 23, 2008- ________________________________ "Each of us. . . A bundle of possibilities." From lloydfriedrick at telus.net Tue Sep 2 13:08:07 2008 From: lloydfriedrick at telus.net (Lloyd Friedrick) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:08:07 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German culture in North Amercia; Was Re: Kwiatkowski - Bluemke References: Message-ID: <512E61A94E914982A082A76C35B96BC1@VAIO> I don't. It is far more often suggested that my roots must be Jewish because of my surname. Again, it is not. Jerry Frank Hello Jerry I cannot resist making a comment on your "Jewish" surname. After leaving beautiful Alberta we retired to the velly British society of Victoria, British Columbia. We live in a fairly large Condominium building with many retired English folk. Sometime ago , they discovered that I was researching my German roots. Later on, a lady [?] on the elevator said to me; "It must be difficult for you to go through life as a German with a Jewish name !" Lloyd Friedrick ----- Original Message ----- From: Spaghettitree at aol.com Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 10:18 am Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kwiatkowski - Bluemke To: otto at schienke.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > Hello again, Otto - I should have included the fact that my > brothers and I > were forbidden to learn a word of German (though we learned what > Verboten! > meant). There remains a very strong stigma from WW I and > WW II for anyone and > anything German in America, especially from people of Jewish > heritage. I have > even been accused of having something to do with Hitler's > holocaust, simply > because of the name Schoenky! Never mind that I was > far too young, never in > Europe (until 1999) and am as horrified as anyone else over that > insane genocide! > I have learned some German, word by word, though by no means > conversational, > as a necessity in order to understand my own genealogical > heritage and help > others to do the same. > > If anyone knows about a dictionary in Polish or Russian similar > to the German > one (German-English Genealogical Dictionary by Ernest Thode) I > would love to > know about it. I use Thode's book (in addition to numerous > other dictionaries > and texts) on a daily basis. > > All that aside, German foods and beers and Octoberfests and > many, many > Germanic customs are immensely popular here, and > increasing - i.e., profit-making. > Adolphus and Gussie Busch in St. Louis did rather > well! And so did > Griesedieck and Schlitz and Lempe and Pabst and many, many > others, at least until > Busch took over - and now they are no longer the top beer barons > either. > > The best thing I see about all these message boards is bringing > people of > differing heritages together with the common denominator of > genealogy; when you > get right down to it, we are all family, after all. > > Maureen Schoenky > > > ************** > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. > Find your travel deal here. > > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Spaghettitree at aol.com Tue Sep 2 16:23:21 2008 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:23:21 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Understanding Names Message-ID: To all of you, thank you for your name-stories and Otto, for your in-depth historical analysis! It would have been nice, all things considered, if, like some of you, my name had been translated on arrival in Baltimore - then I would not have had to listen to all the sneezes - I would be Maureen Beautiful - but Maureen Handsome would be okay too..................... and I hope all those ignoramuses who take potshots at our Germanic names would go look in the mirror and judge themselves - though they wouldn't likely understand why. We in America tend to lump all things German together as one, but the Germans separate themselves into the Badenisch from the Bavarisch and the Austrian and all the others and the dress and the customs and the language and the food too. And now my curiousity is aroused once again to more culture, more names and more recipes, the Polish and the Prussian (besides the K?nigsberger Klops). Of course, other countries sometimes lump everything American together too, but we have dozens of incomprehensible dialects and all the rest too - The Bronx, Cajun country, Montana/Idaho/Wyoming cowboy country, and most difficult of all (to me) is TEAXUS - 3 syllables. Not meant to stir up any hornet's nest, please, Texans. Each place has its slang, its patois, its shorthand, and each person some individual version of those - which often do not translate to any other place. This is just a genealogical message board, and now we can get back to the business at hand, hunting ancestors, wherever they lead us. Maureen ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From davidekrause at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 16:41:22 2008 From: davidekrause at gmail.com (Dave Krause) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:41:22 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please Message-ID: Hi to one and all; I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, Poland) and have come across an unusual occurrence in the index name field for deaths. The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o quotes.- and precedes a given name. Any suggestions as to what this could mean? It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! Dave Krause From garynrho at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 17:18:10 2008 From: garynrho at gmail.com (gary and rhonda simpson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:18:10 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canadian Passenger Lists Message-ID: <2CB542BC2ECB412B81A7B2390B64F7E7@OwnerPC> This was announced on another list I belong to and I have to say it is great news for anyone researching Cdn Passenger lists...Although I have spent the last several years scouring page by page the digitized copies with considerable success so it is a little late for me, but I have one elusive family that may just be there....I can hardly wait. "On Tuesday the 16th of September 2008, Ancestry.ca in partnership with the Library and Archives Canada (LAC) will announce the world-first online launch of the complete and fully indexed Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935." Rhonda From daveobee at shaw.ca Tue Sep 2 18:04:06 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:04:06 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Canadian Passenger Lists In-Reply-To: <2CB542BC2ECB412B81A7B2390B64F7E7@OwnerPC> References: <2CB542BC2ECB412B81A7B2390B64F7E7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Re: > "On Tuesday the 16th of September 2008, Ancestry.ca in > partnership with the Library and Archives Canada (LAC) will announce the world-first online > launch of the complete and fully indexed Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865- > 1935." Those who attended the conference in Kelowna will already know about this -- I mentioned it during my talk on the first day. The information I had (from LAC) is slightly different -- an index 1870-1900 (we already have images for this), plus images 1925-1935 (there is already an index for this). That does leave a gap, so I hope the coverage is as comprehensive as indicated. I do know that Ancestry's master plan is to get all of it indexed. Dave Obee From ladez41 at comcast.net Wed Sep 3 06:03:15 2008 From: ladez41 at comcast.net (Leslie) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:03:15 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke Message-ID: <350CF2CEDF164459ACDA5E9E667D55D1@Leslie> Is there anyone that can translate the contents of this letter? Much thanks in advance. Leslie ----- Original Message ----- From: Leslie To: Leslie Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: cilke -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cilke.png Type: image/png Size: 23381 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20080903/ef53fbce/cilke.png From Lawrence.Lanzaro at us.Army.Mil Wed Sep 3 06:06:01 2008 From: Lawrence.Lanzaro at us.Army.Mil (Lanzaro, Lawrence R Mr CIV USA IMCOM) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:06:01 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] My Family History Webpage Message-ID: <99F7232580E7BC45A8C0D4ECADED5F0102E298E9@MONMBE010C85207.nae.ds.army.mil> I've created a family history webpage for my German (Polish?) ancestors who arrived in Brooklyn, NY around 1880. I invite everyone to visit the site and let me know what they think of it. Here's the site: http://LeierNowasky.com The surnames that I'm researching are: LEIER NOWASKY KUNTZE KRZIGAN BOLTON BOSCH CROWELL CURRIER ERNST FALL (FOELL) FRETZ HALBERT HUNTER KAZALSKI KELLNER KENNISH Thank you, Larry From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Sep 3 06:34:51 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:34:51 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72phc3$87hkt@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Dave, I don't see such a word in my Polish-English dictionary. Could it hark back to some Latin term that sometimes slips into church records from time to time? Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 05:41 PM 02/09/2008, Dave Krause wrote: >Hi to one and all; >I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, Poland) >and have come across an unusual occurrence in the index name field for >deaths. The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o quotes.- and >precedes a given name. Any suggestions as to what this could mean? >It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! >Dave Krause > From garynrho at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 06:54:35 2008 From: garynrho at gmail.com (gary and rhonda simpson) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 08:54:35 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please References: <72phc3$87hkt@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <9301B3EA861B49D384BC0AD4F2391D4E@OwnerPC> If you check with the LDS research quide here http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Guide=WLLatin1.asp|general_wordsand break it down into 3 words et nn ait looks like it may be " and name not know by"Hope this helpsRhonda From AnnRosemaryK at aol.com Wed Sep 3 07:16:56 2008 From: AnnRosemaryK at aol.com (AnnRosemaryK@aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:16:56 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 2 Message-ID: Greetings; In regards to this topic. I am a first generation American. My parents although they spoke German would not let us kids learn any of it. Or would they let us ask any questions about their being German. There is french and polish in our family also..They came before world war two to America. SO they are now deceacesd and it is very hard to find a lot of information.As far as trying to find even the actual true spelling of my family surname is a mystery. It came from France, Loudion or Loudvin. In Germany spelled Lowin Lovin, Lowien. So in parts of America they pronounce it very diifferent. Any help appricieated from the list members. They lived in Babetia kries sensburg and were Luthern , I have yet to find any records from there. Thanks: ANN **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Sep 3 08:01:24 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:01:24 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BEA6C4.3080506@warnerengineering.com> Dave, Can you please send a scan of the document? Gary Warner Dave Krause wrote: > Hi to one and all; > I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, Poland) > and have come across an unusual occurrence in the index name field for > deaths. The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o quotes.- and > precedes a given name. Any suggestions as to what this could mean? > It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! > Dave Krause > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Sep 3 08:15:23 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:15:23 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BEAA0B.6040808@warnerengineering.com> Ann Rosemary, Your email is very generic. If you want this group to help you, you need to start with some very specific information about what you do know. Since you say that the family came to the USA, then it makes sense to start with information sufficient that they can be found in the 1930 and earlier censuses. Also include full names and death dates that can be looked up in the USA social security death index. Gary Warner AnnRosemaryK at aol.com wrote: > Greetings; In regards to this topic. I am a first generation American. My > parents although they spoke German would not let us kids learn any of it. Or > would they let us ask any questions about their being German. There is > french and polish in our family also..They came before world war two to America. > SO they are now deceacesd and it is very hard to find a lot of information.As > far as trying to find even the actual true spelling of my family surname > is a mystery. It came from France, Loudion or Loudvin. In Germany spelled > Lowin Lovin, Lowien. So in parts of America they pronounce it very diifferent. > Any help appricieated from the list members. They lived in Babetia kries > sensburg and were Luthern , I have yet to find any records from there. Thanks: ANN > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From GHBoehm at ish.de Wed Sep 3 08:27:33 2008 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:27:33 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BEACE5.9000000@ish.de> AnnRosemaryK at aol.com schrieb: > Greetings; In regards to this topic. I am a first generation American. My > parents although they spoke German would not let us kids learn any of it. Or > would they let us ask any questions about their being German. There is > french and polish in our family also..They came before world war two to America. > SO they are now deceacesd and it is very hard to find a lot of information.As > far as trying to find even the actual true spelling of my family surname > is a mystery. It came from France, Loudion or Loudvin. In Germany spelled > Lowin Lovin, Lowien. So in parts of America they pronounce it very diifferent. > Any help appricieated from the list members. They lived in Babetia kries > sensburg and were Luthern , I have yet to find any records from there. Thanks: ANN Hello Ann, Lowin / Lowen / Lowyn is a village in the Schwetz district, former West Prussia. Its actual Polish spelling is ?owi?. You find it 27 km northnortheast of Bydgoszcz [Bromberg] or 15 km eastnortheast of Koronowo [Crone, Krone an der Brahe, Polnisch Brahe]. Likewise, the most occurrences of the surname spellings LOWIEN and LOWIN are from late West Prussia. The Polish origin of the word is ??w = chase. G?nther From davidekrause at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 10:12:08 2008 From: davidekrause at gmail.com (Dave Krause) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:12:08 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please In-Reply-To: <48BEA6C4.3080506@warnerengineering.com> References: <48BEA6C4.3080506@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: Hi all; Boy is my face red! I was looking at the answer and making it harder than it was! The pastor mixed a cursive "A" with a block "A" on some names. For instance, the first occurrence of the "problem" was Arndt, Etnna Krystyna. The A in Arndt was cursive and the A in Anna was a stylized block A! He seemed to do this with Anna only. So now, I've learned another valuable lesson in genealogy - don't try to make it more difficult than it already is! It was wonderful when the light bulb finally lit. Thanks, everyone, who tried to help me! Take care, Dave Krause On 9/3/08, Gary Warner wrote: > Dave, > > Can you please send a scan of the document? > > Gary Warner > > Dave Krause wrote: >> Hi to one and all; >> I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, Poland) >> and have come across an unusual occurrence in the index name field for >> deaths. The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o quotes.- and >> precedes a given name. Any suggestions as to what this could mean? >> It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! >> Dave Krause >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> > > From worth_a at yahoo.com Wed Sep 3 10:34:39 2008 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke In-Reply-To: <350CF2CEDF164459ACDA5E9E667D55D1@Leslie> Message-ID: <3345.52913.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The gist is that they looked at the Gabin Evangelical baptismal records for 1890 and 1898, but did not find an Otto Cilke. The rest explains how to make a minimum deposit to their bank account if you want further searching. --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Leslie wrote: > From: Leslie > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 9:03 AM > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of this > letter? > Much thanks in advance. > Leslie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Leslie > To: Leslie > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > Subject: cilke > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Sep 3 10:44:30 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:44:30 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke In-Reply-To: <350CF2CEDF164459ACDA5E9E667D55D1@Leslie> References: <350CF2CEDF164459ACDA5E9E667D55D1@Leslie> Message-ID: <48BECCFE.7010605@warnerengineering.com> Leslie, Here is your translation, courtesy of a friend of mine. Gary Warner Dear Ms. Leslie, In response to your letter dated August 30, 2008 regarding the genealogical research pertaining Cilke family, the State Archive in Plock informs, that during the research under the requested years in the following files: - vital statistics records of Evangelical-Augsburg parish of Gabin (1832-1937), birth records of 1890, 1898 a birth record of Otto Cilke was _not_ found. If you are interested to begin a genealogical research in our archives, according to the Regulation No. 1/2008 of the Director of the State Archive in Plock dated February 29, 2008 and regarding conducts and sponsorship of activities, please deposit 40PLN"zloty" (about $20) of an initial fee into the Archive's account at the National Polish Bank (NBP) Regional Branch in Warsaw: NBP Oddzial Okregowy w Warszawie Account # NBP LPLPW 06 1010 1010 0493 9913 9150 0000 The final cost will be calculated at the end of a research based on the following fees: - 1 hour of research = 40PLN - one-page copy = 3 PLN - two-page copy = 6 PLN Vice-Director of the State Archive in Plock Krystyna Banka Leslie wrote: > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of this letter? > Much thanks in advance. > Leslie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Leslie > To: Leslie > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > Subject: cilke > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From worth_a at yahoo.com Wed Sep 3 11:02:42 2008 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Article on Alexandrow Kujawski In-Reply-To: <3345.52913.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <126747.75294.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List members with ancestors from Alexandrow Kujawski or Nieszawa, near Torun, may be interested in an article in today's Rzeczpospolita newspaper about a new monument in Alexandrow Kujawski to the memories of 60-100 ethnic Germans who were taken from an internment camp there and killed by Poles in a mill in 1945. The article states an internment camp for Germans was also located at Nieszawa, which also now has a memorial. Discussions/commemmorations of the treatment of ethnic Germans who were living in Poland at the close of World War II is still a very sensitive subject in Poland. The article is available online at: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/17,185373_Powiedz__ze_to_nie_Polska_jest_winna.html Rzeczpospolita also references an article on this topic that ran a week ago in "Suddeutsche Zeitung." Worth S. Anderson From cmduff at redwing.net Wed Sep 3 12:54:51 2008 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:54:51 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] first generation American Message-ID: <48BEEB8B.4050309@redwing.net> Hi Ann Can you give names, birthdates and birthplaces as far back as possible to help us get a start on this? Carol From Spaghettitree at aol.com Wed Sep 3 13:29:15 2008 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:29:15 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please Message-ID: Dave - Just delighted your sixth sense kicked in - I hate to tell you how many times something similar has happened to me, and I daresay to many others, too. Sometimes just by sleeping on it, another pair of eyes, comparing all the letters, another look at the context - and wondering how some of those scribes read their own words! Happy you have the answer! Maureen ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From e.scheibler at shaw.ca Wed Sep 3 19:53:28 2008 From: e.scheibler at shaw.ca (E SCHEIBLER) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:53:28 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi I have a cousin who married a Kellner; lives in Rainy River, Ontario. He hasn't searched his genealogy but knows that his family were Volhynian Germans.He doesn't use email but if contact is considered, I could give you address and phone number. ed.scheibler at shaw.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008 1:48 pm Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 4 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ?? 1. My Family History Webpage (Lanzaro, Lawrence R > Mr CIV USA IMCOM) > ?? 2. Re: Polish translation, Please (Jerry Frank) > ?? 3. Re: Polish translation, Please (gary and rhonda > simpson)?? 4. Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol > 64, Issue 2 > ????? (AnnRosemaryK at aol.com) > ?? 5. Re: Polish translation, Please (Gary Warner) > ?? 6. Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 2 > (Gary Warner) > ?? 7. Re: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 2 > (G?nther B?hm) > ?? 8. Re: Polish translation, Please (Dave Krause) > ?? 9. Re: Fw: cilke (Worth Anderson) > ? 10. Re: Fw: cilke (Gary Warner) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:06:01 -0400 > From: "Lanzaro, Lawrence R Mr CIV USA IMCOM" > > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] My Family History Webpage > To: > Message-ID: > <99F7232580E7BC45A8C0D4ECADED5F0102E298E9 at MONMBE010C85207.nae.ds.army.mil> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I've created a family history webpage for my German (Polish?) > ancestorswho arrived in Brooklyn, NY around 1880. I invite > everyone to visit the > site and let me know what they think of it. > > Here's the site: http://LeierNowasky.com > > The surnames that I'm researching are: > LEIER > NOWASKY > KUNTZE > KRZIGAN > BOLTON > BOSCH > CROWELL > CURRIER > ERNST > FALL (FOELL) > FRETZ > HALBERT > HUNTER > KAZALSKI > KELLNER > KENNISH > ? > > Thank you, > > Larry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:34:51 -0600 > From: Jerry Frank > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please > To: Dave Krause , > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <72phc3$87hkt at pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Dave, > > I don't see such a word in my Polish-English dictionary.? > Could it > hark back to some Latin term that sometimes slips into church > records > from time to time? > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > At 05:41 PM 02/09/2008, Dave Krause wrote: > >Hi to one and all; > >I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, Poland) > >and have come across an unusual occurrence in the index name > field for > >deaths.? The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o > quotes.- and > >precedes a given name.? Any suggestions as to what this > could mean? > >It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! > >Dave Krause > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 08:54:35 -0500 > From: "gary and rhonda simpson" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please > To: "ger-poland-volhynia" > Message-ID: <9301B3EA861B49D384BC0AD4F2391D4E at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > ??????????? If you check with the LDS research quide here > ?http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Guide=WLLatin1.asp|general_wordsand break it down into 3 words et nn ait looks like it may be " and name not know by"Hope this helpsRhonda > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:16:56 EDT > From: AnnRosemaryK at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, > Vol 64, > Issue 2 > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Greetings; In regards to this topic. I am a first generation > American. My? > parents although they spoke German would not let us kids learn > any of it. Or? > would they let us ask any questions about? their? > being German.? There? is > french and polish in our family also..They came before world > war? two to America. > SO they are now deceacesd and it is very hard to find a > lot? of? information.As > far as trying to find even the actual true spelling of? my > family?? surname > is a mystery. It came from France, Loudion or? Loudvin. In > Germany spelled > Lowin? Lovin, Lowien. So in parts of America? they > pronounce it very diifferent. > Any help appricieated from the list members.? They lived in > Babetia kries > sensburg and were Luthern , I have yet to find any? records > from there.? Thanks: ANN > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. > Find your travel > deal here.????? > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:01:24 -0700 > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please > To: Dave Krause > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <48BEA6C4.3080506 at warnerengineering.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dave, > > Can you please send a scan of the document? > > Gary Warner > > Dave Krause wrote: > > Hi to one and all; > > I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, > Poland)> and have come across an unusual occurrence in the index > name field for > > deaths.? The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o > quotes.- and > > precedes a given name.? Any suggestions as to what this > could mean? > > It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! > > Dave Krause > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > >?? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:15:23 -0700 > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, > Vol 64, > Issue 2 > To: AnnRosemaryK at aol.com > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <48BEAA0B.6040808 at warnerengineering.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Ann Rosemary, > > Your email is very generic.?? If you want this group > to help you, you > need to start with some very specific information about what you > do > know.?? Since you say that the family came to the USA, > then it makes > sense to start with information sufficient that they can be > found in the > 1930 and earlier censuses.?? Also include full names > and death dates > that can be looked up in the USA social security death index. > > Gary Warner > > AnnRosemaryK at aol.com wrote: > > Greetings; In regards to this topic. I am a first generation > American. My? > > parents although they spoke German would not let us kids learn > any of it. Or? > > would they let us ask any questions about? their? > being German.? There? is > > french and polish in our family also..They came before world > war? two to America. > > SO they are now deceacesd and it is very hard to find a > lot? of? information.As > > far as trying to find even the actual true spelling of? > my family?? surname > > is a mystery. It came from France, Loudion or? Loudvin. > In Germany spelled > > Lowin? Lovin, Lowien. So in parts of America? they > pronounce it very diifferent. > > Any help appricieated from the list members.? They lived > in Babetia kries > > sensburg and were Luthern , I have yet to find any? > records from there.? Thanks: ANN > > > > > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. > Find your travel > > deal here.????? > > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > >?? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:27:33 +0200 > From: G?nther B?hm > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, > Vol 64, > Issue 2 > To: Wolhynien-Liste > Message-ID: <48BEACE5.9000000 at ish.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > AnnRosemaryK at aol.com schrieb: > > Greetings; In regards to this topic. I am a first generation > American. My? > > parents although they spoke German would not let us kids learn > any of it. Or? > > would they let us ask any questions about? their? > being German.? There? is > > french and polish in our family also..They came before world > war? two to America. > > SO they are now deceacesd and it is very hard to find a > lot? of? information.As > > far as trying to find even the actual true spelling of? > my family?? surname > > is a mystery. It came from France, Loudion or? Loudvin. > In Germany spelled > > Lowin? Lovin, Lowien. So in parts of America? they > pronounce it very diifferent. > > Any help appricieated from the list members.? They lived > in Babetia kries > > sensburg and were Luthern , I have yet to find any? > records from there.? Thanks: ANN > > Hello Ann, > Lowin / Lowen / Lowyn is a village in the Schwetz district, > former West > Prussia. Its actual Polish spelling is ?owi?. You find it 27 km > northnortheast of Bydgoszcz [Bromberg] or 15 km eastnortheast of > Koronowo [Crone, Krone an der Brahe, Polnisch Brahe]. Likewise, > the most > occurrences of the surname spellings LOWIEN and LOWIN are from > late West > Prussia. > > The Polish origin of the word is ??w = chase. > > G?nther > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:12:08 -0700 > From: "Dave Krause" > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish translation, Please > To: "Gary Warner" > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi all; > Boy is my face red!? I was looking at the answer and making > it harder > than it was!? The pastor mixed a cursive "A" with a block > "A" on some > names.? For instance, the first occurrence of the "problem" > was Arndt, > Etnna Krystyna.? The A in Arndt was cursive and the A in > Anna was a > stylized block A!? He seemed to do this with Anna > only.? So now, I've > learned another valuable lesson in genealogy - don't try to make it > more difficult than it already is!? It was wonderful when > the light > bulb finally lit. > Thanks, everyone, who tried to help me! > Take care, Dave Krause > > On 9/3/08, Gary Warner wrote: > > Dave, > > > > Can you please send a scan of the document? > > > > Gary Warner > > > > Dave Krause wrote: > >> Hi to one and all; > >> I'm working on films (3719597&8 - Grodziec Church near Konin, > Poland)>> and have come across an unusual occurrence in the > index name field for > >> deaths.? The last name is followed by "etnna" - w/o > quotes.- and > >> precedes a given name.? Any suggestions as to what this > could mean? > >> It only occurs three times in 255 entries. Thanks in advance! > >> Dave Krause > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: Worth Anderson > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org, Leslie > > Message-ID: <3345.52913.qm at web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > The gist is that they looked at the Gabin Evangelical baptismal > records for 1890 and 1898, but did not find an Otto Cilke.? > The rest explains how to make a minimum deposit to their bank > account if you want further searching. > > > --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Leslie wrote: > > > From: Leslie > > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 9:03 AM > > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of this > > letter? > > Much thanks in advance. > > Leslie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leslie > > To: Leslie > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > > Subject: cilke > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > > http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > ????? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:44:30 -0700 > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: Leslie > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: <48BECCFE.7010605 at warnerengineering.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Leslie, > > Here is your translation, courtesy of a friend of mine. > > Gary Warner > > Dear Ms. Leslie, > In response to your letter dated August 30, 2008 regarding the > genealogical research pertaining Cilke family, the State Archive > in > Plock informs, that during the research under the requested > years in the > following files: > - vital statistics records of Evangelical-Augsburg parish of > Gabin > (1832-1937), birth records of 1890, 1898 > a birth record of Otto Cilke was _not_ found. > > If you are interested to begin a genealogical research in our > archives, > according to the Regulation No. 1/2008 of the Director of the > State > Archive in Plock dated February 29, 2008 and regarding conducts > and > sponsorship of activities, please deposit 40PLN"zloty" (about > $20) of an > initial fee into the Archive's account at the National Polish > Bank (NBP) > Regional? Branch in Warsaw: > NBP Oddzial Okregowy w Warszawie > Account # NBP LPLPW 06 1010 1010 0493 9913 9150 0000 > > The final cost will be calculated at the end of a research based > on the > following fees: > - 1 hour of research = 40PLN > - one-page copy = 3 PLN > - two-page copy = 6 PLN > > Vice-Director of the State Archive in Plock > Krystyna Banka > > Leslie wrote: > > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of this letter? > > Much thanks in advance. > > Leslie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leslie > > To: Leslie > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > > Subject: cilke > > > > > >?? > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html > > End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 64, Issue 4 > ************************************************** > From HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com Fri Sep 5 06:05:40 2008 From: HeinrichRichter1 at aol.com (HeinrichRichter1@aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:05:40 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ewz Files Message-ID: I have lost my contact for obtaining information from the National Archives. Does anyone have a name or email address of someone that still visits the National Archives. I am trying to get copies of the EWZ files that include the name of Johann, Rosina and Samuel Richter from Jelowica near Rowno. Thank you, Heinrich Richter **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Nks883 at aol.com Fri Sep 5 14:01:39 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:01:39 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom Message-ID: On the SGGEE site, the "List of Separated German Refugee Families in Russia, etc" extracted by Richard Benert has given me a great clue in tracking my Schindel/Schendel ancestors. There is a reference to the area of "Ljuschitza - Radom", but I am unable to find any other reference to Ljuschitza. Is there another spelling of the village/town? When ancestor Gottfried Schindel had his WWI Draft Registration filled out for him in the U.S., his place of birth sounded like, but was not written as Ljuschitza. His father was Ludwig Schindel born in the mid 1850's and immigrated to Michigan in 1904 with his family. Can someone help me out with that village name? Thank you. Nadine Erdman Saiki **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) From benovich at imt.net Fri Sep 5 15:23:38 2008 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:23:38 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom References: Message-ID: <002a01c90fa6$0b1f05a0$0500a8c0@richard01> Nadine, I'm delighted that the list helped you. For Ljuschitza, have you tried ShtetlSeeker on www.jewishgen.org? Dick Benert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom > On the SGGEE site, the "List of Separated German Refugee Families in > Russia, > etc" extracted by Richard Benert has given me a great clue in tracking my > Schindel/Schendel ancestors. > > There is a reference to the area of "Ljuschitza - Radom", but I am unable > to > find any other reference to Ljuschitza. Is there another spelling of the > village/town? When ancestor Gottfried Schindel had his WWI Draft > Registration > filled out for him in the U.S., his place of birth sounded like, but was > not > written as Ljuschitza. His father was Ludwig Schindel born in the mid > 1850's > and immigrated to Michigan in 1904 with his family. Can someone help me > out > with that village name? Thank you. > > Nadine Erdman Saiki > > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion > blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 5 15:43:43 2008 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 15:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <811672.92757.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Nadine, This document would have been written in Cyrillic meaning we had to do a phonetic conversion to how the town might be spelled in Polish. We are also? a bit at the mercy of Dick Benert's skills in reading Cyrillic and is he reading the letters correctly to give the correct phonetics. On top of that we are also at the mercy of whoever wrote these place names in the newspaper since they probably gave it their best shot how the town would be spelled in Russian. So as you see there are a number of variables that can affect the accuracy and finding the correct town. ? I did some searching on my own and as you might guess I did not find any hits to my liking. ? On Shtetl seeker I find a ?uczyce but is in Polish Volhynia. There happens to be another town called Radymo nearby but I would not expect that to be used as a larger city for reference. ? Just a bit west of Radom I can see Lezenice and Lucynow. The former is a better? fit but still not great. If we can't trust the Russian or its interpretation Lezenice might be close enough if the n was misinterpreted but it is hard to misinterpret the Le as Lju. In Russian the letters producing those sounds are very different. Karl --- On Fri, 9/5/08, Nks883 at aol.com wrote: From: Nks883 at aol.com Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 5:01 PM On the SGGEE site, the "List of Separated German Refugee Families in Russia, etc" extracted by Richard Benert has given me a great clue in tracking my Schindel/Schendel ancestors. There is a reference to the area of "Ljuschitza - Radom", but I am unable to find any other reference to Ljuschitza. Is there another spelling of the village/town? When ancestor Gottfried Schindel had his WWI Draft Registration filled out for him in the U.S., his place of birth sounded like, but was not written as Ljuschitza. His father was Ludwig Schindel born in the mid 1850's and immigrated to Michigan in 1904 with his family. Can someone help me out with that village name? Thank you. Nadine Erdman Saiki **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Fri Sep 5 19:08:44 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:08:44 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72ojkv$d33iq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Nadine, I have found one possible match which would have been within Radom province at the time - Luszyce, which, given the tz sound for c in Polish would be a very close match in pronunciation to what you have. It is, however, about as far away from the town of Radom as you can get while still staying in the province. Use that spelling with http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp to find it on a map, just north of the Wisla River and east of Polaniec some 125 miles or so south of Warsaw. Now the trick will be to figure out in which parish you will find records. My best guess would be Kielce for Lutheran records. Even that is quite far away so you may want to check nearby Catholic records as they may have registered there. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 03:01 PM 05/09/2008, Nks883 at aol.com wrote: >On the SGGEE site, the "List of Separated German Refugee Families in Russia, >etc" extracted by Richard Benert has given me a great clue in tracking my >Schindel/Schendel ancestors. > >There is a reference to the area of "Ljuschitza - Radom", but I am unable to >find any other reference to Ljuschitza. Is there another spelling of the >village/town? When ancestor Gottfried Schindel had his WWI >Draft Registration >filled out for him in the U.S., his place of birth sounded like, but was not >written as Ljuschitza. His father was Ludwig Schindel born in the >mid 1850's >and immigrated to Michigan in 1904 with his family. Can someone help me out >with that village name? Thank you. > >Nadine Erdman Saiki > > From krushelh at telus.net Fri Sep 5 21:17:51 2008 From: krushelh at telus.net (Howard Krushel) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 22:17:51 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom In-Reply-To: <72ojkv$d33iq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <908DF49E0E7A444BB632023486E6CB44@D24VBP91> According to Kneifel, Luszyca and 5 other villages were served by the Evangelical Reformed church in Sielec(north west of Luszyca below Staszow)starting in about 1840; the Bethaus (church-school)was established in Przeczow and in 1920 became a branch of the Kielce parish. The family history library has the records recorded under Poland, Kielce, Sielec (Staszow); 1875-1884 have been microfilmed under 1808841 it. 21-22 and 1808842 it.1-9; with Luszyca being situated so far from a Lutheran parish church, the Lutherans may have registered their births in the nearby Catholic church, especially in the early period of their existence. Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Frank Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:09 PM To: Nks883 at aol.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom Nadine, I have found one possible match which would have been within Radom province at the time - Luszyce, which, given the tz sound for c in Polish would be a very close match in pronunciation to what you have. It is, however, about as far away from the town of Radom as you can get while still staying in the province. Use that spelling with http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp to find it on a map, just north of the Wisla River and east of Polaniec some 125 miles or so south of Warsaw. Now the trick will be to figure out in which parish you will find records. My best guess would be Kielce for Lutheran records. Even that is quite far away so you may want to check nearby Catholic records as they may have registered there. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca From Hannes.Werner at online.de Fri Sep 5 23:26:15 2008 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:26:15 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom References: <72ojkv$d33iq@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <002301c90fe9$79ebc160$f800a8c0@end2000> Hello Nadine and Jerry, I would absolutely agree with Jerry's information. I think the correct spelling ist LUSZYCA, a location east of Polaniec. Next great town is Staszow. And that was a small town with a worth mentioning german/prussian population south af Radom. I remember another family-searcher who would have more information about this region. I tried to contact him, but he didn't answer. I'm interested myself because he could have info on my Schielke-ancestors. There is connection with the former area of West-Galizien, part of Austria, during the "polish partitions " end of 18th - beginning of 19 th century. For some more information tray this website: http://www.galiziengermandescendants.org/BDC_Files/index.htm and search for Schendel or Schindel in the alphabetical index. And there is another link to search for your ancestors. I published the title of a book some weeks ago, it's called: Kolonisationswerk Joseph II. Maybe there is some more information on your Gottfried Schi(e)ndel and his origin ! Best wishes to all family-searchers Hannes Werner Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Frank" To: ; Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:08 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom > Nadine, From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 6 07:42:33 2008 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 07:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom In-Reply-To: <908DF49E0E7A444BB632023486E6CB44@D24VBP91> Message-ID: <444050.57239.qm@web55301.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Nadine, You are in good hands with these comments. I did see that Luszyce on Shetl Seeker but I assumed it was too far from Radom. Jerry and Howard know what they are talking about. I especially like the phonetic match with Ljuschitza - it is much better than the other possibilites I brought up but you knew I wasn't satisfied with those. This suggests that Dick did well with his translation if this is it. Karl --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Howard Krushel wrote: From: Howard Krushel Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom To: "'Jerry Frank'" , Nks883 at aol.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 12:17 AM According to Kneifel, Luszyca and 5 other villages were served by the Evangelical Reformed church in Sielec(north west of Luszyca below Staszow)starting in about 1840; the Bethaus (church-school)was established in Przeczow and in 1920 became a branch of the Kielce parish. The family history library has the records recorded under Poland, Kielce, Sielec (Staszow); 1875-1884 have been microfilmed under 1808841 it. 21-22 and 1808842 it.1-9; with Luszyca being situated so far from a Lutheran parish church, the Lutherans may have registered their births in the nearby Catholic church, especially in the early period of their existence. Howard Krushel -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Frank Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:09 PM To: Nks883 at aol.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom Nadine, I have found one possible match which would have been within Radom province at the time - Luszyce, which, given the tz sound for c in Polish would be a very close match in pronunciation to what you have. It is, however, about as far away from the town of Radom as you can get while still staying in the province. Use that spelling with http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp to find it on a map, just north of the Wisla River and east of Polaniec some 125 miles or so south of Warsaw. Now the trick will be to figure out in which parish you will find records. My best guess would be Kielce for Lutheran records. Even that is quite far away so you may want to check nearby Catholic records as they may have registered there. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From cmrmpr at aol.com Sat Sep 6 09:14:51 2008 From: cmrmpr at aol.com (Christine Rakoci) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:14:51 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Jan Joseph Jablonski, Brzesc, Prussia Message-ID: Can anyone tell me how to locate Catholic marriage, birth and death records for individuals living in Brzesc, Prussia in the late 1800's. My grandfather was Jan Joseph Jablonski born in approximately 1884. His fathers name was Joseph Jablonski and his mother was Agnes Wesnieiska. My grandfather came to the USA in 1913. From Nks883 at aol.com Sat Sep 6 09:14:41 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:14:41 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel + Luszyca/Ljuschitza Message-ID: My appreciation to all of you wonderful people who responded to my request regarding Ljuschitza and I will follow up with more precise information, but I made a huge mistake in the ancestor in question, Gottfried Schindel. It was actually his brother Alexander Schindel (11Mar1888/1889) who appears to have been born in a similar sounding village. Checking _www.ancestry.com_ (http://www.ancestry.com) for WWI Draft Reg for Alex Schindel, Gladwin, Michigan the town appears to be Leuwinge or Luwinge, Russia. Gottfried (Fred) Schindel registered as Fred Schindel (12Aug1887) born Rangetia ??? Russia. Another brother Heinrich registered as Henry Schindel (10Mar1895) in Poland, Russia. I do have my grandfather's (Gottlieb Schindel) Lutheran confirmation certificate stating he was born in Lublin, Russia on 10May1882 and was confirmed by Pastor Johann Theodor Ernst Barth in the Parish of Nowograd-Wolynsk. His naturalization papers state he was born in Lublin. I have not been able to find naturalization papers for Gottfried or Heinrich. They both served in WWI (Ohio National Army). I assume some type of citizenship was granted to them before they went to war, but unable to find the source for these papers. Their father, Ludwig/Ludwik/Louis Schindel was born around 1844-1847. His father may have been named Gottlieb. Ludwig served or was drafted into the Russian Army. He married Emilia/Amelia Scheske probably around 1875. She was born about 1859. Their first son, Louis was born 5Apr1877 in Russia/Poland. 1. Leuwinge/Luwinge and Rangetia - am I on the right track thinking Luszyca might be a starting point? 2. Another brother Samuel Schindel/Schendel born about 1879 moved to Brazil with his family (possibly from Wladyn, Russia sometime after 1912 and before 1936. Sam died August 1953 in or around Blumenau, Santa Catarina, Sao Paulo. He left a wife, Pauline and at least two children, a son and a daughter. They spelled their last name as Schendel. I am hoping someone in Brazil might help me reconnect with my family. Thank you so much for your advice and help. It truly is appreciated. Nadine (Erdman / paternal ancestors from Rypin/Michalki area) Saiki **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) From Hannes.Werner at online.de Sat Sep 6 09:36:56 2008 From: Hannes.Werner at online.de (Hannes Werner) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:36:56 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Przasnysz -members of parish 1850 Message-ID: <000c01c9103e$c9c7a190$f800a8c0@end2000> Hello list-members, maybe somebody is interested in information on evang.-augsb. church in Przasnysz/Poland in 1850. There is a list of members of the parish (surnames and given names): Grunau Kroll Rehmann Blech Jerke Busch Ott Schmelter Elfmann Schindel Abram Vogt Peda Neumann Haase Pusch Na? Dreger Martin Hammermeister Kletke Kramer Hoffmann Merle Werner Jeske Dreger Wejmann Maron Reglin Wei? Gutknecht You'll find the scan of the "Inwentarz ..." here: http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/slide,Inwentarz_wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850;_strona_6,pid,338014.htm?view=big and the whole document: http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/gallery,Inwentarz_wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850,gid,338013,cid,6808.htm Hannes Werner Germany From gary at warnerengineering.com Sat Sep 6 10:15:16 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:15:16 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Przasnysz -members of parish 1850 In-Reply-To: <000c01c9103e$c9c7a190$f800a8c0@end2000> References: <000c01c9103e$c9c7a190$f800a8c0@end2000> Message-ID: <48C2BAA4.2040507@warnerengineering.com> Hannes, On the SGGEE website, in the members area, under Parish Records Index, there is an index of all of the births in Przasnysz from 1835 to 1848, and then from 1875 to 1881. I see now that I need to go back and add the missing years from 1849 to 1866 (no filmed records from 1866 to 1875). Someday, when I get time, I hope to extract the full birth, marriage and death records for that parish, as that is where one line of my ancestors lived for some time. Gary Warner Hannes Werner wrote: > Hello list-members, > > maybe somebody is interested in information on evang.-augsb. church in Przasnysz/Poland in 1850. > There is a list of members of the parish (surnames and given names): > > Grunau > Kroll > Rehmann > Blech > Jerke > Busch > Ott > Schmelter > Elfmann > Schindel > Abram > Vogt > Peda > Neumann > Haase > Pusch > Na? > Dreger > Martin > Hammermeister > Kletke > Kramer > Hoffmann > Merle > Werner > Jeske > Dreger > Wejmann > Maron > Reglin > Wei? > Gutknecht > > You'll find the scan of the "Inwentarz ..." here: > http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/slide,Inwentarz_wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850;_strona_6,pid,338014.htm?view=big > and the whole document: > http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/gallery,Inwentarz_wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850,gid,338013,cid,6808.htm > > Hannes Werner > Germany > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From benovich at imt.net Sat Sep 6 11:53:41 2008 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:53:41 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom References: <444050.57239.qm@web55301.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007101c91051$e6283580$0500a8c0@richard01> Just to erase any doubts, the name "Ljuschitza" was printed in good old German gothic type in the newspaper. Here's the text of the Nov. 19, 1915, edition: "Gesucht werden (these people are being sought): Elisabeth Wagner geb. Pelzer aus Ljuschitza, Christian Wagner mit Frau und Kindern aus Nikolajews, Johannes Hessler mit Frau und Kindern aus Nikolajews, Philipp M?ller mit Frau und Kindern aus Ljuschitza, Johannes Schindel mit Frau und Kindern aus Ljuschitza, Johann Eisenberger mit Frau und Kindern aus Nikolajews. Alle diese sind Fl?chtlinge aus dem Gouvernment Radom." Interestingly, the same people appeared in another notice on Dec. 17. This one began with: "Folgende Fl?chtlinge suchen ihre Angeh?rigen:" (the following refugees seek their relatives [literally, "people belonging to them"]). Apparently either these people all showed up in the meantime but without some of their relatives, or else the Nov. 19 notice was in error due to some miscommunication or misunderstanding, and these people had been there the whole time. I'd guess the latter possibility is more likely: all these people did show up together in November in Popowkina (Jost) in Samara province, but all had lost family members along the way. The second notice was sent in by an Alexander Reis who had probably spotted the error committed by his relative, G.B Reis, who sent in the first one, and probably scolded him for being so careless. (I'm guessing, of course). In any case, the second notice mentions that both villages (Ljuschitza and Nikolajews) were in the district of Sandomir in Radom. I hope this helps nail it down. And I've got to make a few changes in the List posted on the website. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Krueger" To: ; Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom > Nadine, > You are in good hands with these comments. I did see that Luszyce on Shetl > Seeker but I assumed it was too far from Radom. Jerry and Howard know what > they are talking about. I especially like the phonetic match with > Ljuschitza - it is much better than the other possibilites I brought up > but you knew I wasn't satisfied with those. This suggests that Dick did > well with his translation if this is it. > Karl > > --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Howard Krushel wrote: > > From: Howard Krushel > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom > To: "'Jerry Frank'" , Nks883 at aol.com, > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 12:17 AM > > According to Kneifel, Luszyca and 5 other villages were served by the > Evangelical Reformed church in Sielec(north west of Luszyca below > Staszow)starting in about 1840; the Bethaus (church-school)was established > in Przeczow and in 1920 became a branch of the Kielce parish. The family > history library has the records recorded under Poland, Kielce, Sielec > (Staszow); 1875-1884 have been microfilmed under 1808841 it. 21-22 and > 1808842 it.1-9; with Luszyca being situated so far from a Lutheran parish > church, the Lutherans may have registered their births in the nearby > Catholic church, especially in the early period of their existence. > Howard Krushel > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Jerry > Frank > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:09 PM > To: Nks883 at aol.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom > > > Nadine, > > I have found one possible match which would have been within Radom > province at the time - Luszyce, which, given the tz sound for c in > Polish would be a very close match in pronunciation to what you > have. It is, however, about as far away from the town of Radom as > you can get while still staying in the province. > > Use that spelling with > http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp to find it on a map, > just north of the Wisla River and east of Polaniec some 125 miles or > so south of Warsaw. > > Now the trick will be to figure out in which parish you will find > records. My best guess would be Kielce for Lutheran records. Even > that is quite far away so you may want to check nearby Catholic > records as they may have registered there. > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1650 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 4:13 PM From marlo50 at bex.net Sat Sep 6 12:51:40 2008 From: marlo50 at bex.net (marlo) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 15:51:40 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland or Russia Message-ID: My husbands mother, Bertha Villwock was born in 1882 in a village in Volhynia. I read about Russia Volhynia and Polish Volhynia. The village she as born in was Elizabethin (spelled several ways)and her sister was born in Dubisehtsche. This from St Pete's records. Was this in Polish Volhynia or Russia Volhynia? I have found them on the map once but still don't know. Does anyone know if they still exist and where they are now? I would appreciate any information. Thank you. Margaret From hgillespie at rogers.com Sat Sep 6 13:56:56 2008 From: hgillespie at rogers.com (Helen Gillespie) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke In-Reply-To: <48BECCFE.7010605@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <842516.30673.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Leslie, Gary and others, It is also possible that the Cilke name has been changed from Zielke. There were Zielke family in Wolhynia. In the 1911 census, there were Zielkes in both the Edmonton AB and Selkirk MB areas. A search in Library and Archives Canada www.collectionscanada.gc.ca in the general search engine for Zielke brought up 28 on the indexed immigration records from 1925-35 plus some in the Western Land grants. Amongst other bits... but also several Cilke names also listed as Polish and German. Some are border crossings. Worth checking as spellings were never consistent and the Z in German is pronounced as a soft C or TS as in tsar, never hard, as in zero or zebra. IMHO Helen --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Gary Warner wrote: > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: "Leslie" > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Received: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 5:44 PM > Leslie, > > Here is your translation, courtesy of a friend of mine. > > Gary Warner > > Dear Ms. Leslie, > In response to your letter dated August 30, 2008 regarding > the > genealogical research pertaining Cilke family, the State > Archive in > Plock informs, that during the research under the requested > years in the > following files: > - vital statistics records of Evangelical-Augsburg parish > of Gabin > (1832-1937), birth records of 1890, 1898 > a birth record of Otto Cilke was _not_ found. > > If you are interested to begin a genealogical research in > our archives, > according to the Regulation No. 1/2008 of the Director of > the State > Archive in Plock dated February 29, 2008 and regarding > conducts and > sponsorship of activities, please deposit > 40PLN"zloty" (about $20) of an > initial fee into the Archive's account at the National > Polish Bank (NBP) > Regional Branch in Warsaw: > NBP Oddzial Okregowy w Warszawie > Account # NBP LPLPW 06 1010 1010 0493 9913 9150 0000 > > The final cost will be calculated at the end of a research > based on the > following fees: > - 1 hour of research = 40PLN > - one-page copy = 3 PLN > - two-page copy = 6 PLN > > Vice-Director of the State Archive in Plock > Krystyna Banka > > Leslie wrote: > > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of > this letter? > > Much thanks in advance. > > Leslie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leslie > > To: Leslie > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > > Subject: cilke > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gary at warnerengineering.com Sat Sep 6 18:28:32 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:28:32 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Przasnysz -members of parish 1850 In-Reply-To: <000c01c9103e$c9c7a190$f800a8c0@end2000> References: <000c01c9103e$c9c7a190$f800a8c0@end2000> Message-ID: <48C32E40.5060105@warnerengineering.com> Hannes, Would you be interested in indexing the missing years I mentioned in my last email on this subject? I believe I can scan and send the indexes to you. If you are really interested, or if someone else is, there are also the death and marriage indexes that also need doing. As a general note that are lots of parishes that need indexing, so if anyone wants to volunteer, we always need the help. Gary Warner Hannes Werner wrote: > Hello list-members, > > maybe somebody is interested in information on evang.-augsb. church in Przasnysz/Poland in 1850. > There is a list of members of the parish (surnames and given names): > > Grunau > Kroll > Rehmann > Blech > Jerke > Busch > Ott > Schmelter > Elfmann > Schindel > Abram > Vogt > Peda > Neumann > Haase > Pusch > Na? > Dreger > Martin > Hammermeister > Kletke > Kramer > Hoffmann > Merle > Werner > Jeske > Dreger > Wejmann > Maron > Reglin > Wei? > Gutknecht > > You'll find the scan of the "Inwentarz ..." here: > http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/slide,Inwentarz_wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850;_strona_6,pid,338014.htm?view=big > and the whole document: > http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/gallery,Inwentarz_wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850,gid,338013,cid,6808.htm > > Hannes Werner > Germany > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de Sun Sep 7 02:17:39 2008 From: Jutta.Dennerlein at t-online.de (Jutta Dennerlein) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:17:39 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Przasnysz -members of parish 1850 In-Reply-To: <000c01c9103e$c9c7a190$f800a8c0@end2000> Message-ID: <000801c910ca$93bff980$020aa8c0@JD> Just a small correction ... the list does not show 'all' the members of the parish. It is a list of the 1850 parish council (the 3 signatures right of the pastor's signature), a list of the Schulzen (soltys) of the villages which belonged to the parish and a list of the people responsible for taking care of the local cemeteries. So this gives a hint for the number of cemeteries in this parish. Thank you Hannes Werner! Jutta Dennerlein www.upstreamvistula.org > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On > Behalf Of Hannes Werner > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:37 PM > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Przasnysz -members of parish 1850 > > > Hello list-members, > > maybe somebody is interested in information on evang.-augsb. > church in Przasnysz/Poland in 1850. > There is a list of members of the parish (surnames and given names): > > Grunau > Kroll > Rehmann > Blech > Jerke > Busch > Ott > Schmelter > Elfmann > Schindel > Abram > Vogt > Peda > Neumann > Haase > Pusch > Na? > Dreger > Martin > Hammermeister > Kletke > Kramer > Hoffmann > Merle > Werner > Jeske > Dreger > Wejmann > Maron > Reglin > Wei? > Gutknecht > > You'll find the scan of the "Inwentarz ..." here: > http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/slide,Inwentarz _wszelkich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_ w_Przasnyszu_24_II_8_III_1850;_strona_6,pid,338014.htm?view=big and the whole document: http://przasnysz.polska.pl/dokumentyarchiwalne/gallery,Inwentarz_wszel kich_nieruchomosci_i_ruchomosci_zboru_ewangelicko-augsburskiego_w_Prza snyszu_24_II_8_III_1850,gid,338013,cid,6808.htm Hannes Werner Germany _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Nks883 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 08:15:27 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:15:27 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fwd: Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom Message-ID: Yes, this is starting to nail down the area. My grandfather (Gottlieb Schindel) also had a cousin, a few years younger and also named Gottlieb Schindel who did, in fact, come from the village of Nikolajew. Nadine **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Richard Benert" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel/Schendel - Ljuschitza-Radom Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:53:41 -0600 Size: 7317 Url: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20080907/13bd7afa/attachment.mht From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 6 14:24:54 2008 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke In-Reply-To: <842516.30673.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <285988.33416.qm@web55302.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Cilke is the Polish spelling for Zielke. It is the different phonics German and Polish use. The Polish C is like the German Z (or TZ) which is pronounced as the English TS. If you see Z in German don't think it gets pronounced like our Z. This is where it really helps to know the phonics of your different languages. Those who? know only English should think beyond the "English phonics" box. Karl --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Helen Gillespie wrote: From: Helen Gillespie Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke To: "Leslie" , "Gary Warner" Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:56 PM Leslie, Gary and others, It is also possible that the Cilke name has been changed from Zielke. There were Zielke family in Wolhynia. In the 1911 census, there were Zielkes in both the Edmonton AB and Selkirk MB areas. A search in Library and Archives Canada www.collectionscanada.gc.ca in the general search engine for Zielke brought up 28 on the indexed immigration records from 1925-35 plus some in the Western Land grants. Amongst other bits... but also several Cilke names also listed as Polish and German. Some are border crossings. Worth checking as spellings were never consistent and the Z in German is pronounced as a soft C or TS as in tsar, never hard, as in zero or zebra. IMHO Helen --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Gary Warner wrote: > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: "Leslie" > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Received: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 5:44 PM > Leslie, > > Here is your translation, courtesy of a friend of mine. > > Gary Warner > > Dear Ms. Leslie, > In response to your letter dated August 30, 2008 regarding > the > genealogical research pertaining Cilke family, the State > Archive in > Plock informs, that during the research under the requested > years in the > following files: > - vital statistics records of Evangelical-Augsburg parish > of Gabin > (1832-1937), birth records of 1890, 1898 > a birth record of Otto Cilke was _not_ found. > > If you are interested to begin a genealogical research in > our archives, > according to the Regulation No. 1/2008 of the Director of > the State > Archive in Plock dated February 29, 2008 and regarding > conducts and > sponsorship of activities, please deposit > 40PLN"zloty" (about $20) of an > initial fee into the Archive's account at the National > Polish Bank (NBP) > Regional Branch in Warsaw: > NBP Oddzial Okregowy w Warszawie > Account # NBP LPLPW 06 1010 1010 0493 9913 9150 0000 > > The final cost will be calculated at the end of a research > based on the > following fees: > - 1 hour of research = 40PLN > - one-page copy = 3 PLN > - two-page copy = 6 PLN > > Vice-Director of the State Archive in Plock > Krystyna Banka > > Leslie wrote: > > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of > this letter? > > Much thanks in advance. > > Leslie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leslie > > To: Leslie > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > > Subject: cilke > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ladez41 at comcast.net Sun Sep 7 05:21:32 2008 From: ladez41 at comcast.net (Leslie) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 08:21:32 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke References: <285988.33416.qm@web55302.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <48C32C1C.5090701@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who sent response for my Cilke translation. Besides the translation I received some other good tips to explore in trying to find my Grandad's birth certificate.All help is so appreciated! Leslie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Warner To: dabookk54 at yahoo.com Cc: Leslie ; hgillespie at rogers.com ; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke Leslie, I did not take ownership of your letter, merely conveyed it for translation. Now that Helen and Karl have correctly noted that the German spelling of Cilke, my head has been slapped a bit, and it makes me wonder if the Polish archives checked only for Cilke, or whether they also checked for Zielke. It seems so obvious, but it would not hurt for you to send an email to the archives in English and ask them if their search for Cilke included the other variations of Zielke or Zilke or Ziehlke or Zuelke (=Cylke or Cyl or Cielke) and even Cujak. Make sure that you reference the transaction number in your email so that they know that you already paid for a search. Gary Karl Krueger wrote: Cilke is the Polish spelling for Zielke. It is the different phonics German and Polish use. The Polish C is like the German Z (or TZ) which is pronounced as the English TS. If you see Z in German don't think it gets pronounced like our Z. This is where it really helps to know the phonics of your different languages. Those who know only English should think beyond the "English phonics" box. Karl --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Helen Gillespie wrote: From: Helen Gillespie Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke To: "Leslie" , "Gary Warner" Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:56 PM Leslie, Gary and others, It is also possible that the Cilke name has been changed from Zielke. There were Zielke family in Wolhynia. In the 1911 census, there were Zielkes in both the Edmonton AB and Selkirk MB areas. A search in Library and Archives Canada www.collectionscanada.gc.ca in the general search engine for Zielke brought up 28 on the indexed immigration records from 1925-35 plus some in the Western Land grants. Amongst other bits... but also several Cilke names also listed as Polish and German. Some are border crossings. Worth checking as spellings were never consistent and the Z in German is pronounced as a soft C or TS as in tsar, never hard, as in zero or zebra. IMHO Helen --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Gary Warner wrote: > From: Gary Warner > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: "Leslie" > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Received: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 5:44 PM > Leslie, > > Here is your translation, courtesy of a friend of mine. > > Gary Warner > > Dear Ms. Leslie, > In response to your letter dated August 30, 2008 regarding > the > genealogical research pertaining Cilke family, the State > Archive in > Plock informs, that during the research under the requested > years in the > following files: > - vital statistics records of Evangelical-Augsburg parish > of Gabin > (1832-1937), birth records of 1890, 1898 > a birth record of Otto Cilke was _not_ found. > > If you are interested to begin a genealogical research in > our archives, > according to the Regulation No. 1/2008 of the Director of > the State > Archive in Plock dated February 29, 2008 and regarding > conducts and > sponsorship of activities, please deposit > 40PLN"zloty" (about $20) of an > initial fee into the Archive's account at the National > Polish Bank (NBP) > Regional Branch in Warsaw: > NBP Oddzial Okregowy w Warszawie > Account # NBP LPLPW 06 1010 1010 0493 9913 9150 0000 > > The final cost will be calculated at the end of a research > based on the > following fees: > - 1 hour of research = 40PLN > - one-page copy = 3 PLN > - two-page copy = 6 PLN > > Vice-Director of the State Archive in Plock > Krystyna Banka > > Leslie wrote: > > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of > this letter? > > Much thanks in advance. > > Leslie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leslie > > To: Leslie > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM > > Subject: cilke > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From GPVListAdmin at sggee.org Sun Sep 7 09:48:40 2008 From: GPVListAdmin at sggee.org (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:48:40 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Lesniakowizna Poland / Brade family request Message-ID: <726mdt$k1qhd@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> The following message was received from Germany by a non-subscriber to this list. If you can help in any way, please respond directly to Olga Stabrey at andreas.stabrey at t-online.de Rough translation: My name is Olga Stabrey, nee Schneider from Lesniakowizna, district Radzymin. I was born there 13/12/1936. I know the name Alexander Brade from Canada. He was a childhood friend of my mother, Pauline Schneider, nee Kuhn. I do not speak English. Do you have any photos of Lesniakowizna? Or old photos of my mother or my father, Emil Schneider? Both were born in Lesniakowizna. We have lost all our photos in the 1945 flight. Do you know anything about my family? Also, stories about the Deportation to Saratow in 1914 are of great interest to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original in German: my name is Olga Stabrey, geborene Schneider aus Lesniakowizna, Kreis Radzymin. Ich bin am 13.12.1936 in Lesniakowizna geboren. Mir ist ein Alexander Brade aus Canada bekannt. Er war ein Jugendfreund meiner Mutter Pauline Schneider , geborene Kuhn. Leider spreche ich nicht englisch. Haben Sie alte Fotos von Lesniakowizna? Oder alte Fotos von meiner Mutter oder von meinem Vater Emil Schneider? Beide sind in Lesniakowizna geboren. Wir haben alle Fotos auf der Flucht 1945 verloren. Wissen sie etwas ueber meine Familie? Auch die Geschichte ueber die Deportation nach Saratow im Jahre 1914 werde mich interessieren. Jerry Frank - List Administrator for [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] GPVListAdmin at sggee.org http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Sep 7 10:16:07 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:16:07 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland or Russia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72pvh6$14bh77@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Margaret, Polish and Russian Volhynia only existed from 1920 through WW II. Your villages were in Polish Volhynia during that time. From the Polish Partitions of the 1790s through WW I, it was all part of Russia. Dubisehtsche (actually Dubiszcze of which there were 2 - Stare / Old and Nowe / New) and Elizabethin / Elzbeicin are all located within 6 km northeast of Rozyszcze. You can see them on this map http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/A45_B40_(XXVIII-18)_ROZYSZCZE_300dpi.jpg Enlarge it and go to the top right corner and scroll down to the range between the numbers 179 and 183. You will see your villages right there at the edge. The website version only has 2 size settings. To make it more manageable, right click and download the map to your computer. When you open it in your image viewer, you can control the enlargement to more readable settings. According to this map http://download.maps.vlasenko.net/smtm100/m-35-039.jpg the villages still exist. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 01:51 PM 06/09/2008, marlo wrote: >My husbands mother, Bertha Villwock was born in 1882 in a village in Volhynia. >I read about Russia Volhynia and Polish Volhynia. The village she >as born in was >Elizabethin (spelled several ways)and her sister was born in >Dubisehtsche. This from St Pete's records. Was this in Polish >Volhynia or Russia Volhynia? I have found them on the map once but >still don't know. > Does anyone know if they still exist and where they are now? I > would appreciate any information. Thank you. >Margaret > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Sep 7 10:29:44 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:29:44 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schindel in Lublin and Volhynia etc., Was Re: Schindel/Schendel + Luszyca/Ljuschitza In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <726mdt$k23m3@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> As with many of our ancestors, yours created quite a migration trail through this part of Europe. Starting with Rangetia and Luwinge - both appear to be too badly spelled to make sense of the real place names intended. I think that Luszyca is clearly a good starting point for your research and Howard has provided some suggestions for what parishes to look in. You may find some correctly spelled village names there that tie into the above two. Nowograd-Wolhynsk is of course in Volhynia. However, given the timing of the record (post 1885), getting much additional info there might be difficult. Birth place shown as Lublin may be a good clue. Our Lublin Team is currently working on indexing records from that Parish, not currently available through the LDS. They may have some help available for you. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 10:14 AM 06/09/2008, Nks883 at aol.com wrote: >My appreciation to all of you wonderful people who responded to my request >regarding Ljuschitza and I will follow up with more precise >information, but I >made a huge mistake in the ancestor in question, Gottfried Schindel. It was >actually his brother Alexander Schindel (11Mar1888/1889) who appears to have >been born in a similar sounding village. Checking _www.ancestry.com_ >(http://www.ancestry.com) for WWI Draft Reg for Alex Schindel, >Gladwin, Michigan >the town appears to be Leuwinge or Luwinge, Russia. > >Gottfried (Fred) Schindel registered as Fred Schindel (12Aug1887) born >Rangetia ??? Russia. Another brother Heinrich registered as Henry Schindel >(10Mar1895) in Poland, Russia. > >I do have my grandfather's (Gottlieb Schindel) Lutheran confirmation >certificate stating he was born in Lublin, Russia on 10May1882 and >was confirmed by >Pastor Johann Theodor Ernst Barth in the Parish of Nowograd-Wolynsk. His >naturalization papers state he was born in Lublin. > >I have not been able to find naturalization papers for Gottfried or >Heinrich. They both served in WWI (Ohio National Army). I >assume some type of >citizenship was granted to them before they went to war, but >unable to find the >source for these papers. > >Their father, Ludwig/Ludwik/Louis Schindel was born around 1844-1847. His >father may have been named Gottlieb. Ludwig served or was drafted into the >Russian Army. He married Emilia/Amelia Scheske probably >around 1875. She was >born about 1859. Their first son, Louis was born 5Apr1877 in Russia/Poland. > >1. Leuwinge/Luwinge and Rangetia - am I on the right track thinking Luszyca >might be a starting point? >2. Another brother Samuel Schindel/Schendel born about 1879 moved to Brazil >with his family (possibly from Wladyn, Russia sometime after 1912 and before >1936. Sam died August 1953 in or around Blumenau, Santa Catarina, >Sao Paulo. > He left a wife, Pauline and at least two children, a son and a daughter. >They spelled their last name as Schendel. I am hoping someone in >Brazil might >help me reconnect with my family. > >Thank you so much for your advice and help. It truly is appreciated. >Nadine (Erdman / paternal ancestors from Rypin/Michalki area) Saiki > From hrjansohn at earthlink.net Sun Sep 7 14:03:23 2008 From: hrjansohn at earthlink.net (Harry Jansohn) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 17:03:23 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] EWZ research at ArchivesII Message-ID: <380-2200890721323500@earthlink.net> Tom Stangl did some research for me a few years ago at the Archives II in MD. Tom, are you still doing research on the EWZ files? And if so Heinrich Richter inquired on our list, but I did not have your e-mail address. Janice Jansohn Harry Jansohn hrjansohn at earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. From kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu Sun Sep 7 14:51:59 2008 From: kbrowne at alumni.umass.edu (Kenneth Browne) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:51:59 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland or Russia In-Reply-To: <72pvh6$14bh77@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> References: <72pvh6$14bh77@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <48C44CFF.5070300@alumni.umass.edu> Jerry Frank wrote: > Dubisehtsche (actually Dubiszcze of which there were 2 - Stare / Old > and Nowe / New) and Elizabethin / Elzbeicin are all located within 6 > km northeast of Rozyszcze. You can see them on this map > http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/A45_B40_(XXVIII-18)_ROZYSZCZE_300dpi.jpg > Enlarge it and go to the top right corner and scroll down to the Awesome maps, Jerry. I think I've seen the Russian one before but can't make out the Cyrillic writing. How would Rozyszcze appear in cyrillic writing? Or perhaps you could provide the coordinates on the Russian map? Also, what is the name of the river that lies to the East of Rozyszcze? My ggf LACHMANN, Samuel George, was born in Rozyszcze in 1865 and I hope to make a trip there someday but want to have a better idea of the geography so I can plan a driving tour that will allow me to see other places where his siblings, parents, and grandparents were from. Kenneth Browne researching: BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE From gary at warnerengineering.com Sun Sep 7 15:23:41 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:23:41 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland or Russia In-Reply-To: <48C44CFF.5070300@alumni.umass.edu> References: <72pvh6$14bh77@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <48C44CFF.5070300@alumni.umass.edu> Message-ID: <48C4546D.9040003@warnerengineering.com> Kenneth, I assume that you have found the birth of Samuel Lachmann and his siblings in the St. Petersburg files? Lachmann Julianne 4-Mar 1875 Vicentow Gottfried Wolf, Juliane 1884065/2 519 529 Lachmann Andreas 24-Jun 1877 Wincentow Gottfried Wolf, Juliana 1897588/2 257 189 Lachmann Samuel 23 Sep 1865 Roschischtsche Gottfried Wolf, Julianna 1884089/1 666 113 Bereske You should consider joining SGGEE. Gar Warner SGGEE Kenneth Browne wrote: > Jerry Frank wrote: > > >> Dubisehtsche (actually Dubiszcze of which there were 2 - Stare / Old >> and Nowe / New) and Elizabethin / Elzbeicin are all located within 6 >> km northeast of Rozyszcze. You can see them on this map >> http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/A45_B40_(XXVIII-18)_ROZYSZCZE_300dpi.jpg >> Enlarge it and go to the top right corner and scroll down to the >> > Awesome maps, Jerry. I think I've seen the Russian one before but can't > make out the Cyrillic writing. How would Rozyszcze appear in cyrillic > writing? Or perhaps you could provide the coordinates on the Russian > map? Also, what is the name of the river that lies to the East of Rozyszcze? > > My ggf LACHMANN, Samuel George, was born in Rozyszcze in 1865 and I hope > to make a trip there someday but want to have a better idea of the > geography so I can plan a driving tour that will allow me to see other > places where his siblings, parents, and grandparents were from. > > Kenneth Browne researching: > BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF > LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL > NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Sep 7 15:21:53 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:21:53 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Poland or Russia In-Reply-To: <48C44CFF.5070300@alumni.umass.edu> References: <72pvh6$14bh77@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> <48C44CFF.5070300@alumni.umass.edu> Message-ID: <726g32$q9tq7@pd5mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Kenneth, On the Cyrillic map: t's not an actual map grid but if you go down vertical line 78 till it intersects with horizontal 44, you will be in the centre of the town of Rozyszcze - looks vaguely like POXNWE where N is backwards. It is beside the Styr River as is noted on the Polish map. All of these maps are linked from our "Villages and Maps" page. You may want to engage some people (who have been there) in discussion about travelling in the area. Getting to Rozyszcze would not be too difficult but driving on some of the other roads to outlying villages may be a problem. Might be better to hire a car and driver or visit with a tour group. Also, as I understand it, be prepared with lots of good maps as the locals don't always know how to get to more remote locations. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 03:51 PM 07/09/2008, Kenneth Browne wrote: >Jerry Frank wrote: > >>Dubisehtsche (actually Dubiszcze of which there were 2 - Stare / >>Old and Nowe / New) and Elizabethin / Elzbeicin are all located >>within 6 km northeast of Rozyszcze. You can see them on this map >> >>http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/A45_B40_(XXVIII-18)_ROZYSZCZE_300dpi.jpg >>Enlarge it and go to the top right corner and scroll down to the >Awesome maps, Jerry. I think I've seen the Russian one before but >can't make out the Cyrillic writing. How would Rozyszcze appear in >cyrillic writing? Or perhaps you could provide the coordinates on >the Russian map? Also, what is the name of the river that lies to >the East of Rozyszcze? > >My ggf LACHMANN, Samuel George, was born in Rozyszcze in 1865 and I >hope to make a trip there someday but want to have a better idea of >the geography so I can plan a driving tour that will allow me to see >other places where his siblings, parents, and grandparents were from. > >Kenneth Browne researching: >BROWN(E) LEIGHTON TAYLOR CLOUGH/CLUFF >LACHMANN RUSSELL MORSE PETTENGILL >NOBLE SMALL WOLF MROCH LUEDTKE From edies_hook at msn.com Mon Sep 8 17:07:35 2008 From: edies_hook at msn.com (Edith McKelvy) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:07:35 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] SGGEE 2008 convention Message-ID: My sincere appreciation to all those who organized and executed the very successful 2008 SGGEE convention in Kelowna BC. The programs, presentations, and accommodations were excellent. And the personalized help from the volunteers in the Research Room was invaluable. Thank you -- Well Done! Edith Rimple McKelvy Silverdale WA From albert.treichel at sympatico.ca Thu Sep 11 08:14:18 2008 From: albert.treichel at sympatico.ca (Albert Treichel) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:14:18 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke References: <285988.33416.qm@web55302.mail.re4.yahoo.com><48C32C1C.5090701@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <2A00E28D9E114622B2BECE1B317C6867@office> To add to the mix, research (mainly by my cousin) has identified our great grandmother Maria with surname variously spelled as Cylkow (in a resettlement record), Cylke (in a parish record) and Zulke (in an EWZ stammblatt). She married Fryderyk Treichel. She appears to have been born about 1828 (whereabouts unknown), died at Chmielewo, Pultusk, Warsaw Province (sometime after birth of our grandfather Ludwig Treichel in 1864). Parish records also record other earlier births for siblings of Ludwig. This supports the discussion on multiple spellings of the surname and is further interesting in that Gabin and Chmielewo are not that far apart so the possibility exists that our Maria Cylkow and Leslie's Otto Cilke may be connected. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie" To: "Gary Warner" ; Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > Thanks to everyone who sent response for my Cilke translation. Besides the > translation I received some other good tips to explore in trying to find > my Grandad's birth certificate.All help is so appreciated! > Leslie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Warner > To: dabookk54 at yahoo.com > Cc: Leslie ; hgillespie at rogers.com ; > ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > > > Leslie, > > I did not take ownership of your letter, merely conveyed it for > translation. Now that Helen and Karl have correctly noted that the > German spelling of Cilke, my head has been slapped a bit, and it makes me > wonder if the Polish archives checked only for Cilke, or whether they also > checked for Zielke. It seems so obvious, but it would not hurt for you > to send an email to the archives in English and ask them if their search > for Cilke included the other variations of Zielke or Zilke or Ziehlke or > Zuelke (=Cylke or Cyl or Cielke) and even Cujak. Make sure that you > reference the transaction number in your email so that they know that you > already paid for a search. > > Gary > > Karl Krueger wrote: > Cilke is the Polish spelling for Zielke. It is the different > phonics German and Polish use. The Polish C is like the German Z (or TZ) > which is pronounced as the English TS. If you see Z in German don't think > it gets pronounced like our Z. This is where it really helps to know the > phonics of your different languages. Those who know only English should > think beyond the "English phonics" box. > Karl > > --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Helen Gillespie > wrote: > > From: Helen Gillespie > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: "Leslie" , "Gary Warner" > > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 4:56 PM > > > Leslie, Gary and others, > > It is also possible that the Cilke name has been changed from Zielke. > There > were Zielke family in Wolhynia. > > In the 1911 census, there were Zielkes in both the Edmonton AB and Selkirk > MB > areas. > > A search in Library and Archives Canada www.collectionscanada.gc.ca in > the > general search engine for Zielke brought up 28 on the indexed immigration > records from 1925-35 plus some in the Western Land grants. Amongst other > bits... but also several Cilke names also listed as Polish and German. > Some are > border crossings. > > Worth checking as spellings were never consistent and the Z in German is > pronounced as a soft C or TS as in tsar, never hard, as in zero or zebra. > > IMHO > > Helen > > --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Gary Warner wrote: > >> From: Gary Warner >> Subject: Re: > [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke >> To: "Leslie" >> Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org >> Received: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 5:44 PM >> Leslie, >> >> Here is your translation, courtesy of a friend of mine. >> >> Gary Warner >> >> Dear Ms. Leslie, >> In response to your letter dated August 30, 2008 regarding >> the >> genealogical research pertaining Cilke family, the State >> Archive in >> Plock informs, that during the research under the requested >> years in the >> following files: >> - vital statistics records of Evangelical-Augsburg parish >> of Gabin >> (1832-1937), birth records of 1890, 1898 >> a birth record of Otto Cilke was _not_ found. >> >> If you are interested to begin a genealogical research in >> our archives, >> according to the Regulation No. 1/2008 of the Director > of >> the State >> Archive in Plock dated February 29, 2008 and regarding >> conducts and >> sponsorship of activities, please deposit >> 40PLN"zloty" (about $20) of an >> initial fee into the Archive's account at the National >> Polish Bank (NBP) >> Regional Branch in Warsaw: >> NBP Oddzial Okregowy w Warszawie >> Account # NBP LPLPW 06 1010 1010 0493 9913 9150 0000 >> >> The final cost will be calculated at the end of a research >> based on the >> following fees: >> - 1 hour of research = 40PLN >> - one-page copy = 3 PLN >> - two-page copy = 6 PLN >> >> Vice-Director of the State Archive in Plock >> Krystyna Banka >> >> Leslie wrote: >> > Is there anyone that can translate the contents of >> this letter? >> > Much thanks in advance. >> > Leslie >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: > Leslie >> > To: Leslie >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:53 AM >> > Subject: cilke >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe >> http://www.sggee.org >> > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe >> http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern > Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1646 - Release Date: 9/1/2008 > 6:03 PM > > > From lydiaem at shaw.ca Fri Sep 12 16:16:44 2008 From: lydiaem at shaw.ca (Wilma Schultz) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:16:44 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] PERPLEXED Message-ID: Hello everyone, I am a bit perplexed today. I received in the mail, a CD with several maps of Dresden on it. It was sent from Jasper, Alberta, with the sender not listed on the envelope. Then I realized that my address on the envelope, was actually a photocopy of my address, that I had written as my return address obviously on some letter I sent previously?? to whom?? I don't know. So I would like to extend a thank you to whomever sent me the CD. Wilma. From worth_a at yahoo.com Sat Sep 13 12:56:45 2008 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: Cilke/Hammermeister In-Reply-To: <2A00E28D9E114622B2BECE1B317C6867@office> Message-ID: <262775.64308.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Regarding "Cylkow," the -ow may be a case ending indicating she was "of the Cylkes". One sees this frequently in Polish records. Sometimes the linguistic changes to the names seem remarkable. In the Plonkowo Roman Catholic parish records, the name "Hammermeister" is often Latinized to "Hammermagister." For women, the priests then sometimes added the Polish ending -owa (wife of), thus yielding "Hammermagistrowa". --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Albert Treichel wrote: > From: Albert Treichel > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: cilke > To: "Leslie" , "Gary Warner" , dabookk54 at yahoo.com > Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 11:14 AM > To add to the mix, research (mainly by my cousin) has > identified our great > grandmother Maria with surname variously spelled as Cylkow > (in a > resettlement record), Cylke (in a parish record) and Zulke > (in an EWZ > stammblatt). She married Fryderyk Treichel. She appears to > have been born > about 1828 (whereabouts unknown), died at Chmielewo, > Pultusk, Warsaw > Province (sometime after birth of our grandfather Ludwig > Treichel in 1864). > Parish records also record other earlier births for > siblings of Ludwig. > This supports the discussion on multiple spellings of the > surname and is > further interesting in that Gabin and Chmielewo are not > that far apart so > the possibility exists that our Maria Cylkow and > Leslie's Otto Cilke may be > connected. > From GHBoehm at ish.de Sat Sep 13 15:38:55 2008 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther_B=F6hm?=) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:38:55 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Fw: Cilke/Hammermeister In-Reply-To: <262775.64308.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <262775.64308.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48CC40FF.5010108@ish.de> Worth Anderson schrieb: > Regarding "Cylkow," the -ow may be a case ending indicating she was "of the Cylkes". One sees this frequently in Polish records. > > Sometimes the linguistic changes to the names seem remarkable. In the Plonkowo Roman Catholic parish records, the name "Hammermeister" is often Latinized to "Hammermagister." For women, the priests then sometimes added the Polish ending -owa (wife of), thus yielding "Hammermagistrowa". Hello Worth, absolutely correct. -ow = genitive plural, male -owa = genitive plural, female -owo = genitive plural, neuter (i.e. village) G?nther From farose at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 18:54:27 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:54:27 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plagues? Foreign armies? Message-ID: I'm learning the importance of knowing some of the history of the areas we research. And since I don't know this particular relevant history, I'm hoping someone else does. 1) were there plagues in the - say - Gostynin, Warszawa, Poland area around 1825-1850? There seem to be a lot of deaths at that time among the people I am researching. I know that in the early 1900's there was a plague in the Kremianke area in Volhynia, for my grandfather and several of his siblings died of it. I was told it was "Typhus" - the black plague revisited? Speaking of which, the black plague was still decimating communities in Wuerttemberg, Germany around 1635. Is there somewhere we can find out what plagues were affecting what areas when? 2) And were there "maurading armies" going through the area from about 1800? Reason I ask is that I've come across several births where the father is unknown, and all around the same time period. One must consider the possibility of rape by foreign armies on their way through. Other possibilities exist, of course. But it seems to be a high proportion relative to time periods before and after. Rose-Marie From otto at schienke.com Sun Sep 14 21:06:43 2008 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:06:43 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plagues? Foreign armies? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63EA49A0-4DB7-4B08-8A74-A255FC0FC20F@schienke.com> Good evening/morning Rose-Marie You use the term 'plague' rather loosely, as a catch-all term for a variety of medical maladies. Poland was for the most part spared from Plague, which refers to the Bubonic Plague or Black Death specifically. (some may counter the bacterium culprit) The bacterium is 'Yersinia pestis'. The Black Death killed an estimated one hundred million people in 1400. The term you want to use is 'pandemic', which refers to a group of nasty medical maladies such as influenza, typhus, cholera, famine, smallpox and so on. The seaport of Danzig and also K?nigberg of East Prussia experienced a plague epidemic 1709-1710 to an extent a third of the population died. That was it except for Russia in 1738-1739. The area you have under consideration was in 'Russian Poland', and 1825-1863 was a time of turmoil for specific areas due to the Poles attempting to overthrow Russian oppression. Wherever there is a presence of soldiers the danger of typhus and cholera surfaces. Contamination of water and sanitation. I would opt for cholera being the cause of death seeing a pandemic was on the roll during that time period . It was brought by the soldiers. it could have up to a 40% + mortality rate. The bacterium 'Vibrio cholerae'. We are the survivors of those pandemics. . . millions did not make it. Armies on the march brought morbid diseases with them but did what they could to repopulate the areas they marched through. Enough said. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:54 PM, F&RM Haddad wrote: > I'm learning the importance of knowing some of the history of the > areas we > research. And since I don't know this particular relevant history, I'm > hoping someone else does. > > 1) were there plagues in the - say - Gostynin, Warszawa, Poland area > around > 1825-1850? There seem to be a lot of deaths at that time among the > people I > am researching. I know that in the early 1900's there was a plague > in the > Kremianke area in Volhynia, for my grandfather and several of his > siblings > died of it. I was told it was "Typhus" - the black plague revisited? > Speaking of which, the black plague was still decimating communities > in > Wuerttemberg, Germany around 1635. Is there somewhere we can find > out what > plagues were affecting what areas when? > > 2) And were there "maurading armies" going through the area from > about 1800? > Reason I ask is that I've come across several births where the > father is > unknown, and all around the same time period. One must consider the > possibility of rape by foreign armies on their way through. Other > possibilities exist, of course. But it seems to be a high proportion > relative to time periods before and after. > > Rose-Marie > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of March 23, 2008- ________________________________ "Each of us. . . A bundle of possibilities." From farose at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 08:09:44 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:09:44 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Bartz Message-ID: Hi All - First, thank-you for the responses to my question re: armies, and plagues. I am trying to find information on a Wilhelm Bartz. He is the father of my step-grandfather, who is also first cousin to my biological grandfather. (Long story - still with me?) Wilhelm Bartz died in 1924 - presumably in Volhynia, but given the turmoil and displacement, it could have been most anywhere in Russia. Wilhelm Bartz married Bertha Peter born 31.May.1868 in Lwowek, Gostynin, Warszawa, Poland. Their eldest son Wilhelm was born in 1892. In researching a co-lateral line, I discovered references to Bartz' in Borki, Gostynin around 1845-55, and a generation earlier, in Sady and Wymslie, both in the Gostynin area. Has anyone information, or could anyone direct me to information? Thank-you in advance. Rose-Marie Haddad From daveobee at shaw.ca Tue Sep 16 15:54:54 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:54:54 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online Message-ID: The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images! This is the biggest news for Canadian genealogists in a long time. Dave Obee From walters.cathy at yahoo.com Wed Sep 17 08:40:14 2008 From: walters.cathy at yahoo.com (Cathy Walters) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] World Deluxe at ancestery-can someone look up book? Message-ID: <463570.71065.qm@web57412.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hi Listers, If one of you have the World Deluxe is it possible for you to grab info to give to me? "Scots in Poland,Russia and the Baltic states 1550-1850"by David Dobson,Baltimore,MD. USA Genealogical Publishing Co.2003 at Ancestery.Com. When tried to read -membership came up and I can not afford.My Rossin I belive is Ross. Thankyou for any help ,Cathy Walters ALWAYS A ROSE From dollyhauf at att.net Wed Sep 17 09:07:32 2008 From: dollyhauf at att.net (dollyhauf) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:07:32 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] World Deluxe at ancestery-can someone look upbook? Message-ID: <002c01c918df$7e85ee90$4001a8c0@HAUF> Cathy, This is what it says. Did you want something else from there?? Dolly Scots in Poland, Russia and the Baltic States, 1550-1850 About this book Source: Original data: Dobson, David. Scots in Poland, Russia and the Baltic States, 1550-1850.. Baltimore, MD, USA: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2003. Description: The links between Scotland and the countries lying along the southern shores of the Baltic can be traced back as far as the late Medieval period, when Scottish knights accompanied the Teutonic knights on their Baltic Crusade. Since then there have been economic links, which led any number of western merchants--Scots included-- to settle in the main seaports of Eastern Europe, such as Danzig. The main period of Scottish settlement in Eastern Europe occurred from 1560 to 1650, when Scottish, German, Dutch, and Jewish entrepreneurs were lured to the Baltic by the promise of economic opportunity. Still other Scots left in pursuit of religious freedom, as soldiers of fortune ultimately settling on lands granted for service rendered, or as itinerant cramers (pedlars). By the 1640s, according to one authority, as many as 30,000 Scots were resident in Poland alone. After 1650, Eastern Europe waned as a beacon for Scottish emigration, and some Scots returned to their Scottish homeland. The majority, however, became integrated into their adopted Baltic societies. In due course, their Polonised descendants would emigrate to America and elsewhere, some no doubt as part of the wave of Polish refugees which settled in North America in this century. For this new book, Mr. Dobson combed through more than forty manuscript collections and published works to arrive at a list of 2,500 Scots who settled in the Baltic. Arranged alphabetically, the entries furnish the individual's name with variants, a place of residence in Eastern Europe, the date of the record, and its source. Given the widely disparate character of the subject matter, one may also find a reference to the individual's place of origin in Scotland, occupation, relationships to other persons named (i.e., parent, spouse, offspring), membership in a fraternal organization, etc. Spanning a period of 300 years, Mr. Dobson's ground-breaking collection of Scots in the Baltic may just produce the ancestral clue to your Scottish heritage in the last place you were expecting to find it. From dollyhauf at att.net Wed Sep 17 09:18:25 2008 From: dollyhauf at att.net (dollyhauf) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:18:25 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia] World Deluxe at ancestery-can someone look upbook? Message-ID: <003c01c918e1$03ad0a30$4001a8c0@HAUF> Cathy Will send all Ross names to you directly as attachments. Dolly From colnels at telus.net Wed Sep 17 13:40:30 2008 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:40:30 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> Has this list been realised? Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dave Obee Sent: September-16-08 4:55 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images! This is the biggest news for Canadian genealogists in a long time. Dave Obee _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From egsnyder at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 14:12:17 2008 From: egsnyder at gmail.com (Eric Snyder) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:12:17 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> References: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> Message-ID: Affirmative! We've already tracked down Grandfather Ernst Schneider travelling from Glasgow to Quebec City on the Allan Line ship, Norwegian II on June 7, 1887. Ernst, age 30, and his brother Franz, age 28) were two of 5 Germans enroute as "laborers" to Winnipeg via Quebec City. Both travelled to Canada without their wives. We believe they came from what is now Klaipeda, Lithuania, which was then Memel, Prussia. No idea how they would have travelled to Scotland. http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/001045-119.01-e.php?&sisn_id_nbr=2553&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=g2qc4euahrnuht22s1vfk1tnm2 http://snipr.com/3r8ih [www_collectionscanada_gc_ca] Eric Snyder Ottawa, Canada ============ On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Nelson Itterman wrote: > Has this list been realised? > Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dave > Obee > Sent: September-16-08 4:55 PM > To: ger-poland-volhynia > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are > online > > > The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images! > > This is the biggest news for Canadian genealogists in a long time. > > Dave Obee > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -- Edith Sitwell - "I wish the government would put a tax on pianos for the incompetent." From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Sep 17 14:22:54 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:22:54 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: References: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> Message-ID: <48D1752E.9060006@warnerengineering.com> Eric, As near as I can tell, the direct links to the Canada Archives you note below do not allow a search by the name of the person. So if like most of us, we do not know the exact ship or date of arrival or port, then we need to go through each image. Gary Warner Eric Snyder wrote: > Affirmative! > We've already tracked down Grandfather Ernst Schneider travelling from > Glasgow to Quebec City on the Allan Line ship, Norwegian II on June 7, 1887. > Ernst, age 30, and his brother Franz, age 28) were two of 5 Germans enroute > as "laborers" to Winnipeg via Quebec City. Both travelled to Canada without > their wives. We believe they came from what is now Klaipeda, Lithuania, > which was then Memel, Prussia. No idea how they would have travelled to > Scotland. > > http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passenger/001045-119.01-e.php?&sisn_id_nbr=2553&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=g2qc4euahrnuht22s1vfk1tnm2 > > http://snipr.com/3r8ih [www_collectionscanada_gc_ca] > > Eric Snyder > Ottawa, Canada > ============ > > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Nelson Itterman wrote: > > >> Has this list been realised? >> Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org >> [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dave >> Obee >> Sent: September-16-08 4:55 PM >> To: ger-poland-volhynia >> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are >> online >> >> >> The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images! >> >> This is the biggest news for Canadian genealogists in a long time. >> >> Dave Obee >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in >> Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at >> http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> > > > > From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Sep 17 14:24:10 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:24:10 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> References: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> Message-ID: <48D1757A.2000202@warnerengineering.com> Nelson, The link on Ancestry.com is there, but it is not easy to find. It is listed in the scrolling box on the page http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/default.aspx?rt=40 under Canadian Passenger Lists- New It is either still an incomplete listing, or the family stories about both of my grand parents arriving in Canada on two different ships in the 1890s is not correct. I am usually good at finding needles in haystacks, but no luck using all of the search tricks I know. Gary Warner Nelson Itterman wrote: > Has this list been realised? > Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Dave > Obee > Sent: September-16-08 4:55 PM > To: ger-poland-volhynia > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are > online > > > The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images! > > This is the biggest news for Canadian genealogists in a long time. > > Dave Obee > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in > Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at > http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From daveobee at shaw.ca Wed Sep 17 14:37:46 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:37:46 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: <48D1757A.2000202@warnerengineering.com> References: <000001c91905$a0948a70$e1bd9f50$@net> <48D1757A.2000202@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: The lists are easy to find on www.ancestry.ca -- there is a link and a little ad as well, quite prominent on the main page. There is also an offer of 14 days for free. Yes, some of the lists up to 1922 are on the LAC site, but they are not indexed. That is why this new site is so important. I have found several of my people already, in most cases just repeating the finds I made years ago on microfilm. It is always good to do that, though, because you get a sense of comprehensiveness. There are also some people I cannot find. Mainly people who did not speak English, so I will keep guessing at what the spelling might have been. The LAC site has an index to 1925-35, but no images. That index is missing a few people -- including our own Nelson Itterman, who came through in those years and should have been there. He does show up on the Ancestry index, and you can click right through to his page. There are other immigration sites for Canada, but nothing that matches what Ancestry has done. Anyone who wants to see what else there is should go to one of my sites, www.cangenealogy.com, and click on immigration.? Dave Obee ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Warner Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 14:27 Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online To: Nelson Itterman Cc: 'ger-poland-volhynia' , 'Dave Obee' > Nelson, > > The link on Ancestry.com is there, but it is not easy to > find.?? It is > listed in the scrolling box on the page > > http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/default.aspx?rt=40 > > under Canadian Passenger Lists- New > > It is either still an incomplete listing, or the family stories > about > both of my grand parents arriving in Canada on two different > ships in > the 1890s is not correct.?? I am usually good at > finding needles in > haystacks, but no luck using all of the search tricks I know. > > Gary Warner > > > > > Nelson Itterman wrote: > > Has this list been realised? > > Nelson > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On > Behalf Of Dave > > Obee > > Sent: September-16-08 4:55 PM > > To: ger-poland-volhynia > > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger > lists are > > online > > > > > > The lists cover 1865-1935! Indexed! Linked to images! > > > > This is the biggest news for Canadian genealogists in a long time. > > > > Dave Obee > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German > Genealogy in > > Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at > > http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > >?? > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From deloresstevens at sasktel.net Wed Sep 17 16:05:21 2008 From: deloresstevens at sasktel.net (Delores Stevens) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:05:21 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online Message-ID: <002f01c91919$dc2be1f0$811ae143@Delores> I have not gotten Ancestry as have wondered if it has been worth the amount for what I would get out of it. I would like to know if this is a worthwhile expenditure. Thank you Delores Saskatoon From daveobee at shaw.ca Wed Sep 17 16:24:57 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:24:57 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: <002f01c91919$dc2be1f0$811ae143@Delores> References: <002f01c91919$dc2be1f0$811ae143@Delores> Message-ID: I recognize that my opinion might sound biased because I helped with the Ancestry.ca launch a couple of years ago. I also co-wrote a book published by Ancestry. All that said, I generally try to steer people toward the cheapest, simplest sources. That often means Ancestry. For example, I spent hour after hour going through 12 rolls of microfilm, looking for one name. Found him, eventually. But he popped up right away in the Ancestry search I tried last night. All the money I paid for gas and for parking in that one search would more than cover the cost of a month's subscription to Ancestry. You can search Ancestry's Ontario birth records by mother's maiden name. I solved two 20-year mysteries that way. And so on. I look back on the time I have spent in archives and libraries, and getting to those archives and libraries, and it's remarkable how much money I have spent on family history research. Ancestry is cheaper than that. Throw in the fact that there is a 14-day free trial for Ancestry.ca, and I am not sure why anyone would hesitate. Dip in for 14 days, take what you need, and you're done, for free. I have the most expensive, all-inclusive Ancestry package and plan to keep it until the day I stop doing genealogy, which I would hope will be a long time. My experience with Ancestry has also made me more willing to pay for other subscription services because I have seen the benefits from the first one I tried. Be warned that Ancestry's Eastern European collection is not very good at all. There is some material for Germany, but that's about it. One of the German sources is a digitized version of Meyers Orts, the basic gazetteer, but everyone who uses the FEEFHS.org website already knows about a free site with the same reference book. Again, I am not pitching for Ancestry, and there would be no financial benefit to me even if everyone on this list signed up tonight. I am just trying to help people get information quickly and easily. Dave Obee ----- Original Message ----- From: Delores Stevens Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 16:08 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online To: SGGEE > I have not gotten Ancestry as have wondered if it has been worth > the amount > for what I would get out of it.? I would like to know if > this is a > worthwhile expenditure. > > ?Thank you > ?Delores > ?Saskatoon > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From laurelei_primeau at telus.net Wed Sep 17 17:29:43 2008 From: laurelei_primeau at telus.net (Laurelei Primeau) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:29:43 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: References: <002f01c91919$dc2be1f0$811ae143@Delores> Message-ID: <63EC46F0-581C-422E-BB69-703F279FAD91@telus.net> I enjoyed my membership with Ancestry, as I found it made it easier and faster to find records. I was able to print off census records - the scanned pages, not transcription lists (as helpful as those are!) I discontinued my membership only because I don't work on my genealogy much during the school year when I'm teaching, but I thought it was well worth the money whenever I am actively researching. Hope that helps! Laurelei On 17-Sep-08, at 4:24 PM, Dave Obee wrote: > > I recognize that my opinion might sound biased because I helped > with the Ancestry.ca launch a couple of years ago. I also co-wrote > a book published by Ancestry. > > All that said, I generally try to steer people toward the cheapest, > simplest sources. That often means Ancestry. > > For example, I spent hour after hour going through 12 rolls of > microfilm, looking for one name. Found him, eventually. But he > popped up right away in the Ancestry search I tried last night. All > the money I paid for gas and for parking in that one search would > more than cover the cost of a month's subscription to Ancestry. > > You can search Ancestry's Ontario birth records by mother's maiden > name. I solved two 20-year mysteries that way. And so on. I look > back on the time I have spent in archives and libraries, and > getting to those archives and libraries, and it's remarkable how > much money I have spent on family history research. Ancestry is > cheaper than that. > > Throw in the fact that there is a 14-day free trial for > Ancestry.ca, and I am not sure why anyone would hesitate. Dip in > for 14 days, take what you need, and you're done, for free. > > I have the most expensive, all-inclusive Ancestry package and plan > to keep it until the day I stop doing genealogy, which I would hope > will be a long time. My experience with Ancestry has also made me > more willing to pay for other subscription services because I have > seen the benefits from the first one I tried. > > Be warned that Ancestry's Eastern European collection is not very > good at all. There is some material for Germany, but that's about > it. One of the German sources is a digitized version of Meyers > Orts, the basic gazetteer, but everyone who uses the FEEFHS.org > website already knows about a free site with the same reference book. > > Again, I am not pitching for Ancestry, and there would be no > financial benefit to me even if everyone on this list signed up > tonight. I am just trying to help people get information quickly > and easily. > > Dave Obee > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Delores Stevens > Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 16:08 > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists > are online > To: SGGEE > >> I have not gotten Ancestry as have wondered if it has been worth >> the amount >> for what I would get out of it. I would like to know if >> this is a >> worthwhile expenditure. >> >> Thank you >> Delores >> Saskatoon >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Join Care2.com's Race for Pets! From daveobee at shaw.ca Wed Sep 17 18:22:25 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:22:25 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online In-Reply-To: <63EC46F0-581C-422E-BB69-703F279FAD91@telus.net> References: <002f01c91919$dc2be1f0$811ae143@Delores> <63EC46F0-581C-422E-BB69-703F279FAD91@telus.net> Message-ID: This will be my last post on this topic -- unless of course I think of something else. Global TV did a news story on the release of the new records. It's available for viewing on the Global site. Go to: http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/national/video/index.html Down a bit on the left side, click on Global National Stories That will bring up a list that starts with Family Matters and Tap vs Bottled.? Look for Ancestry Check, which is ninth from the top on that list. Click and watch. Dave Obee From roseingram at shaw.ca Thu Sep 18 13:43:25 2008 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:43:25 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Bartz References: Message-ID: <001f01c919cf$3311d0a0$6601a8c0@duocore> Rose-Marie, It appears your next step would be to order filmed records of Gabin Lutheran church and hunt for more Bartz and Peter names. There are many gaps in the Pedigree Database, so if you find more family names you can contibute these to the Pedigree Database which may connect with names already there. http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetailsprint.asp?titleno=204336 Rose Ingram From: F&RM Haddad Hi All - First, thank-you for the responses to my question re: armies, and plagues. I am trying to find information on a Wilhelm Bartz. He is the father of my step-grandfather, who is also first cousin to my biological grandfather. (Long story - still with me?) Wilhelm Bartz died in 1924 - presumably in Volhynia, but given the turmoil and displacement, it could have been most anywhere in Russia. Wilhelm Bartz married Bertha Peter born 31.May.1868 in Lwowek, Gostynin, Warszawa, Poland. Their eldest son Wilhelm was born in 1892. In researching a co-lateral line, I discovered references to Bartz' in Borki, Gostynin around 1845-55, and a generation earlier, in Sady and Wymslie, both in the Gostynin area. Has anyone information, or could anyone direct me to information? Thank-you in advance. Rose-Marie Haddad From rhundt67 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 18 17:30:18 2008 From: rhundt67 at yahoo.com (Renee Hundt) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Hundt's of Elizabetpol; Knull's Message-ID: <495988.29479.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looking for as much information as possible on the Hundt family of Elizabetpol (I have located the german colony). Michael (Michal) Hundt and Otilea Winkler (have nothing on them),? their children: Karl Hundt (have nothing) born abt. 1905 Olga Hundt (have nothing) born abt. 1910 Efrom Hundt (Husbands grandfather) born Dec. 25, 1913 Efrom Hundt married Leokadia Knull (looking for much more on the Knull's as well), their children: Emund Hundt (Leotina Renke) Otto Hundt (Erika Hoeffer) Gertrud Hundt (Wayne Walker and Jone Watters) Herman Hundt (Virginia Klug - my in-laws) Helga Hundt (John Bobb) Elsa Hundt (Harold Sternard and John McCarty) Knull's Leokadia (husbands grandmother) had one brother Paul who died with his wife and 2 sons in a wagon trail in WWII; his daughter, Elsa, was the only one to survive. Leokadia's sister, Elsa, married a Ziemmer and their father was Gustaf/Gustav Knull - no information on a wife etc. Any help is appreciated:? Renee Hundt ? ? From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 18 17:46:07 2008 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Hundt's of Elizabetpol; Knull's In-Reply-To: <495988.29479.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <921442.87046.qm@web55302.mail.re4.yahoo.com> When you talk about dying on a wagon trail during WW II to me that says they were resettled. Anyone who survived the trip should be in EWZ. They would have to be looked at in EWZ52 as the Odessa library wouldn't have them in their databases. --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Renee Hundt wrote: From: Renee Hundt Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Hundt's of Elizabetpol; Knull's To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:30 PM Looking for as much information as possible on the Hundt family of Elizabetpol (I have located the german colony). Michael (Michal) Hundt and Otilea Winkler (have nothing on them),? their children: Karl Hundt (have nothing) born abt. 1905 Olga Hundt (have nothing) born abt. 1910 Efrom Hundt (Husbands grandfather) born Dec. 25, 1913 Efrom Hundt married Leokadia Knull (looking for much more on the Knull's as well), their children: Emund Hundt (Leotina Renke) Otto Hundt (Erika Hoeffer) Gertrud Hundt (Wayne Walker and Jone Watters) Herman Hundt (Virginia Klug - my in-laws) Helga Hundt (John Bobb) Elsa Hundt (Harold Sternard and John McCarty) Knull's Leokadia (husbands grandmother) had one brother Paul who died with his wife and 2 sons in a wagon trail in WWII; his daughter, Elsa, was the only one to survive. Leokadia's sister, Elsa, married a Ziemmer and their father was Gustaf/Gustav Knull - no information on a wife etc. Any help is appreciated:? Renee Hundt ? ? _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From karlann at juno.com Thu Sep 18 21:35:00 2008 From: karlann at juno.com (karlann@juno.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:35:00 GMT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestry's canadian passenger lists are online Message-ID: <20080918.213500.5310.1@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> I have subscribed to Ancestry.com for several years and have found it very useful, particularly to locate and track North American ancestors and my husband's English ancestors; as Dave Obee has mentioned, Ancestry does not have much of an Eastern European collection. However, I have found their passenger list index (which includes many ports besides New York) very helpful in locating my Volhynian relatives who immigrated and listed their hometowns and closest relatives back in Prussia, POland, or Russia. It is also useful for finding relatives' recent, active addresses in North America. Karla Walters ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on business schools, $150K/ year potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l7gMyB1IXwltAuI7ipBjUeEWSLydax1uvikGoDr0hbGuUWj/ From sigmatt at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 21 19:10:00 2008 From: sigmatt at sbcglobal.net (Sig Matt) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Hundt's of Elizabetpol; Knull's Message-ID: <352682.2338.qm@web82206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Karl, Renee, It is my conclusion?that the assumption, that "those on the wagon trail?should be in the EWZ records", needs?a bit more redefining. In my group of some 30 individual EWZ records with the "Matt" family name, on the bottom of the first page of?eight?EWZ application forms it states: Durchgeschleust am:? date (meaning passed through) ???????????? durch Kom. Nr: XXVII? Sonderzug? ??? ??? ??? Sonderzug means special train, or is there another definition?for that entry ? One of the application forms includes a handwritten report of their family's journey from their point of origin in Volhynia to their destination at the EWZ camp. In short it states that they traveled by horse wagon for 12 days, then after some delay they were put on a train that took them to their destination, the EWZ camp.??????????? Another part of the Resettlement or Refugee issue is the fact that, at the time of the Red Army advance into Germany late 1944-45, the majority?of the population of the East and West Prussian area, including other refugees from further East and South, streamed westward in midwinter mostly by horse and wagon, some on foot. This Group was not recorded by any EWZ organization. Regarding casualties on the wagon trail. In the case of our relatives of our own family group all 3 of the surviving?groups report attacks, mostly by Russian Aircraft.?Most fatalities were caused by direct hits?combined with?the inhumane mid winter travel conditions. Our own family trek took us by horse and wagon from East Prussia, across the?ice of the Frische Haff (a frozen 8 ml wide Inland Lagoon) where on a clear frosty day?with good visibility and no military unit within miles of us,?the 3 Refugee columns were suddenly?attacked by 2?low level Aircraft that came blazing at us with?tracer bullets.?They?circled?several times,?firing at each pass.?Man and beast were struck?with uncontrollable fear. Some of the teams of horses broke rank from the column and stampeded off in a wild gallop. Luckily we saw no casualties there, but later in the day we came across several destroyed wagons from?previous?attacks. Some were?partially submerged?with horses still attached frozen in place.? My assessment is that when the above variations are in included in the?formula the original "assumption" takes on a different meaning.???? Question? Could?anyone elaborate on the definition of "EWZ52" ? What does the "52" define?specifically?? Thanks to all. Sig Matt sigmatt at sbcglobal.net ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Karl Krueger To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org; rhundt67 at yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:46:07 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Hundt's of Elizabetpol; Knull's When you talk about dying on a wagon trail during WW II to me that says they were resettled. Anyone who survived the trip should be in EWZ. They would have to be looked at in EWZ52 as the Odessa library wouldn't have them in their databases. --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Renee Hundt wrote: From: Renee Hundt Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Hundt's of Elizabetpol; Knull's To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:30 PM Looking for as much information as possible on the Hundt family of Elizabetpol (I have located the german colony). Michael (Michal) Hundt and Otilea Winkler (have nothing on them),? their children: Karl Hundt (have nothing) born abt. 1905 Olga Hundt (have nothing) born abt. 1910 Efrom Hundt (Husbands grandfather) born Dec. 25, 1913 Efrom Hundt married Leokadia Knull (looking for much more on the Knull's as well), their children: Emund Hundt (Leotina Renke) Otto Hundt (Erika Hoeffer) Gertrud Hundt (Wayne Walker and Jone Watters) Herman Hundt (Virginia Klug - my in-laws) Helga Hundt (John Bobb) Elsa Hundt (Harold Sternard and John McCarty) Knull's Leokadia (husbands grandmother) had one brother Paul who died with his wife and 2 sons in a wagon trail in WWII; his daughter, Elsa, was the only one to survive. Leokadia's sister, Elsa, married a Ziemmer and their father was Gustaf/Gustav Knull - no information on a wife etc. Any help is appreciated:? Renee Hundt ?? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From rlyster at telusplanet.net Mon Sep 22 20:44:10 2008 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Book Available Message-ID: <9446301.26691761222141450416.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20080922/b3a063e4/attachment.html From DrVbuzz at aol.com Fri Sep 26 10:22:08 2008 From: DrVbuzz at aol.com (DrVbuzz@aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:22:08 EDT Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1940 Canadian Registration Message-ID: Just received the 1940 Canadian Registration report on my great Aunt Julianna Jess born March 4, 1868. Her marriage record states born in Kalisch. I have birth records of two of her siblings born after her in the Lublin area and a brother born in Volhynia near Torczyn in 1883. On the 1940 record she gives her birth place as Mlynow NW of Dubno, which is close to where I know the family lived for many of their years in Volhynia. She gives Lublin as the birth place for both of her parents, quite sure that information is way off. The birth village response was a surprise and disappointment after waiting so long for the report. The speculation could go on forever why she answered the question that way. Did not understand the question, forgot, wanted to mislead - it was 1940 and so on. Beside the birth and village information there was not much on the report. Wanted to share my experience with you. Victor Gess Researching in Poland and Volhynia Gering/Gess/Jeske/Jess/Kwast/Mildner/Rode/Wonnick-ek-eck/Riske IwanokaJulianowka/Karlswalde/Moczulki/Satyjew/Shinufka Bielsko/Chmielewo/Kalisch/Karolinow/Plock **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 26 10:49:09 2008 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1940 Canadian Registration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <191579.8638.qm@web55305.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Victor, I imagine your great aunt was at least 70 years old by 1940. These kinds of responses are found often in EWZ where people list locations (often wrongly) based on their memory. She was likely a small child when the family left to the Lublin area. Then after there a few years they moved to Volhynia. I believe these are the places she remembers best and had no recollection of Kalisz. Therefore, her answers are probably just guesses based on her memory of her childhood. Of course, these people often did not concern themselves with their family history so those kinds of details often became forgotten. Karl --- On Fri, 9/26/08, DrVbuzz at aol.com wrote: From: DrVbuzz at aol.com Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1940 Canadian Registration To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 1:22 PM Just received the 1940 Canadian Registration report on my great Aunt Julianna Jess born March 4, 1868. Her marriage record states born in Kalisch. I have birth records of two of her siblings born after her in the Lublin area and a brother born in Volhynia near Torczyn in 1883. On the 1940 record she gives her birth place as Mlynow NW of Dubno, which is close to where I know the family lived for many of their years in Volhynia. She gives Lublin as the birth place for both of her parents, quite sure that information is way off. The birth village response was a surprise and disappointment after waiting so long for the report. The speculation could go on forever why she answered the question that way. Did not understand the question, forgot, wanted to mislead - it was 1940 and so on. Beside the birth and village information there was not much on the report. Wanted to share my experience with you. Victor Gess Researching in Poland and Volhynia Gering/Gess/Jeske/Jess/Kwast/Mildner/Rode/Wonnick-ek-eck/Riske IwanokaJulianowka/Karlswalde/Moczulki/Satyjew/Shinufka Bielsko/Chmielewo/Kalisch/Karolinow/Plock **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From rlyster at telusplanet.net Mon Sep 29 08:21:23 2008 From: rlyster at telusplanet.net (Rita Lyster) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food Message-ID: <29265103.28687411222701683160.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://eclipse.sggee.org/pipermail/ger-poland-volhynia/attachments/20080929/9cdaecdd/attachment.html From josie_schmidt at hotmail.com Mon Sep 29 10:41:33 2008 From: josie_schmidt at hotmail.com (josie Schmidt) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:41:33 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FW: food In-Reply-To: <29265103.28687411222701683160.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> References: <29265103.28687411222701683160.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> Message-ID: From: josie_schmidt at hotmail.comTo: rlyster at telusplanet.netSubject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] foodDate: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:38:10 -0500 As my grandparents were quite old when I was small that is the thing I remember about my grandmother on my father's side the most. The dish that you just described. It was potatoes and homemade noodles were added and then drained and then both were fried in butter and onions. It was wonderful, but the name that you describe was not what they called it. They were Germans from Russia and I have looked for that recipe for years and the name right at this moment escapes me. I am sure it was just the regular noodle recipe with egg, salt and flour. I have kept that taste locked in my memory and will never forget sitting at her table and loving it. Their history has been so difficult for me to nail down, but I believe they lived in a village called Heidelberg in the province of Slawgorod or Slavgorod in Siberia, but originally were from Simonsfeld, Austria. Their names were Gottlieb and Rosina Koehler born 1870's or so. If that rings a bell to anyone please let me know. It's funny how food can be a memory that after 40 years or so, you still can't forget. When I remember the name, I will write back. Josie Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:21:23 -0600From: rlyster at telusplanet.netTo: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgSubject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] foodHere is another spelling-food sleuthing that might interest some of you: My aunt talks about something called (spelled phonetically) Choco Kilke (plat deutsch where choco means potato and kilke means dumpling) Apparently you cook potatoes and leave the water in, then make the dumpling (likely egg, flour and water or milk--not sure if it has baking powder) and then add the dumplings to the potatoes, cover and cook until dumplings are done. This can then be served with fried bacon and onions. Looking forward to someone with first hand knowledge of this one before I add it to the recipe book! Rita Lyster _________________________________________________________________ From grannyblue at peoplepc.com Mon Sep 29 11:17:12 2008 From: grannyblue at peoplepc.com (Cynthia Howland) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:17:12 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Food Message-ID: Rita Lyster asked about a recipe for potato dumplings. I'm afraid I don't have an exact recipe but I would like to share this story told by my Uncle Ed, now deceased, (in his own words) about potato dumplings and pancakes growing up during the depression in Michigan. I think it indicates how the original recipe may have been adapted and was still served with "bacon" and onions. "Supper? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, if we were lucky to get a sack of potatoes along with the sack of flour, a scoop of lard, kind of second hand stuff, a bag of salt and were very lucky to still have one meat "stamp" left from last month's quota, you could get a chunk of saltpork,. Now that went mighty good mixed in with that batch of potato-dumplings Mom used to make every now and then. It's surprising how our Mothers used to be able to cut up a little chunk of salt pork into little nibblets, mix a handful of finely chopped up onion tops, toss them into a pan of hot simmerin ' lard, let it all sizzle a while, till the kitchen started to get a bit blue from their smoke, then she would dump the whole batch, lard and all, into the big pot of potato dumplings after they were drained off and were cooled enough to stir all that stuff together, to make sure our whole family of seven will all get a few nibbles of pork chips and burnt onion tops along with those well lubricated dumplings! .....................All the kids, German, Polock, Belgian, even French & Italian in our neighborhood learned to like Potato pancakes, even if it was a German Polock specialty! Our Mothers sometimes had a whole stack of them, sometimes six inches up, didn't make no matter to us kids." Cynthia Howland From lklarenbach at shaw.ca Mon Sep 29 11:20:11 2008 From: lklarenbach at shaw.ca (Lois Klarenbach) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:20:11 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Documents to be translated Message-ID: <05C2E5C6-5AB7-40E6-9B9E-C7FF288D91E7@shaw.ca> Dear List Members, I have just received documents from Parafia Ewangelicko-Augsburska in Radomiu, Poland regarding my Grandmother "Anna Schmidt" Pachal. One I believe to be the baptismal document written in Polish, the other page is apparently not German Script but not identifiable (altho, I suspect Russian). If there is any person or persons willing to translate these for me I will scan them and forward them to you. Hoping to hear from someone on the list. Thank you. Lois Klarenbach 15 Capri Road Leduc, Alberta T9E 4M6 1-780-986-8322 From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Sep 29 12:30:14 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:30:14 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Slavgorod, Siberia; Was Re: Food In-Reply-To: References: <29265103.28687411222701683160.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> Message-ID: Josie, According to http://www.odessa3.org/collections/refs/link/villhelp.txt Heidelberg, Siberia was also known as Nowo Romanowka (= New Romanowka).? According to that page, it is also associated with Snamenka (= Znamenka).? The latter is to be found about 63 km ENE of Slavogrod.? Noworomanowka is located about 45 km NE of Slavogrod or about 24 km WNW of Snamenka. You can find all 3 places using http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: josie Schmidt Date: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:46 am Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] FW:? food To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > > From: josie_schmidt at hotmail.comTo: > rlyster at telusplanet.netSubject: RE: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] > foodDate: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:38:10 -0500 > > > ? As my grandparents were quite old when I was small that > is the thing I remember about my grandmother on my father's side > the most.? The dish that you just described.? It was > potatoes and homemade noodles were added and then drained and > then both were fried in butter and onions.? It was > wonderful, but the name that you describe was not what they > called it.? They were Germans from Russia and? I have > looked for that recipe for years and the name right at this > moment escapes me.? I am sure it was just the regular > noodle recipe with egg, salt and flour.? I have kept that > taste locked in my memory and will never forget sitting at her > table and loving it.???? Their history has > been so difficult for me to nail down, but I believe they lived > in a village called Heidelberg in the province of Slawgorod or > Slavgorod in Siberia, but originally were from Simonsfeld, > Austria.? Their names were Gottlieb and Rosina Koehler born > 1870's or so.? If that rings a bell to anyone please let me > know. It's > > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:21:23 -0600From: > rlyster at telusplanet.netTo: ger-poland- > volhynia at eclipse.sggee.orgSubject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] > foodHere is another spelling-food sleuthing that might interest > some of you: My aunt talks about something called (spelled > phonetically) Choco Kilke? (plat deutsch where choco means > potato and kilke means dumpling) Apparently you cook potatoes > and leave the water in, then make the dumpling (likely egg, > flour and water or milk--not sure if it has baking powder) and > then add the dumplings to the potatoes, cover and cook until > dumplings are done.? This can then be served with fried > bacon and onions. Looking forward to someone with first hand > knowledge of this one before I add it to the recipe book! Rita Lyster > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From josie_schmidt at hotmail.com Mon Sep 29 13:04:30 2008 From: josie_schmidt at hotmail.com (josie Schmidt) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:04:30 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Food In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just rememebered the name and it was german and I am probably spelling it wrong but it was Knepft with silent k. Also thanks for the information about Heidelberg. Every piece of information I get is greatly appreciated. Josie > From: grannyblue at peoplepc.com> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:17:12 -0400> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Food> > Rita Lyster asked about a recipe for potato dumplings. I'm afraid I don't> have an exact recipe but I would like to share this story told by my Uncle> Ed, now deceased, (in his own words) about potato dumplings and pancakes> growing up during the depression in Michigan. I think it indicates how the> original recipe may have been adapted and was still served with "bacon" and> onions.> > "Supper? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, if we were lucky to get a sack of> potatoes along with the sack of flour, a scoop of lard, kind of second hand> stuff, a bag of salt and were very lucky to still have one meat "stamp" left> from last month's quota, you could get a chunk of saltpork,. Now that went> mighty good mixed in with that batch of potato-dumplings Mom used to make> every now and then. It's surprising how our Mothers used to be able to cut> up a little chunk of salt pork into little nibblets, mix a handful of finely> chopped up onion tops, toss them into a pan of hot simmerin ' lard, let it> all sizzle a while, till the kitchen started to get a bit blue from their> smoke, then she would dump the whole batch, lard and all, into the big pot> of potato dumplings after they were drained off and were cooled enough to> stir all that stuff together, to make sure our whole family of seven will> all get a few nibbles of pork chips and burnt onion tops along with those> well lubricated dumplings! .....................All the kids, German,> Polock, Belgian, even French & Italian in our neighborhood learned to like> Potato pancakes, even if it was a German Polock specialty! Our Mothers> sometimes had a whole stack of them, sometimes six inches up, didn't make no> matter to us kids."> > Cynthia Howland> > _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _________________________________________________________________ From beilsteins at aol.com Mon Sep 29 14:03:05 2008 From: beilsteins at aol.com (beilsteins@aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:03:05 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food In-Reply-To: <29265103.28687411222701683160.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> References: <29265103.28687411222701683160.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes95> Message-ID: <8CAF08DE706C5C8-D80-1F63@WEBMAIL-DZ13.sysops.aol.com> I can't answer your question but I remember my grandmother making boiled apple dumplings with potato flour?? They were delicious.? In later years she could not remember the recipe and I have never found one.? Steve Beilstein -----Original Message----- From: Rita Lyster To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:21 am Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] food Here is another spelling-food sleuthing that might interest some of you: ? My aunt talks about something called (spelled phonetically) ? Choco Kilke? (plat deutsch where choco means potato and kilke means dumpling) ? Apparently you cook potatoes and leave the water in, then make the dumpling (likely egg, flour and water or milk--not sure if it has baking powder) and then add the dumplings to the potatoes, cover and cook until dumplings are done.? This can then be served with fried bacon and onions. ? Looking forward to someone with first hand knowledge of this one before I add it to the recipe book! ? Rita Lyster _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From udo-edelgard at freenet.de Mon Sep 29 14:06:24 2008 From: udo-edelgard at freenet.de (Edelgard Strobel) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:06:24 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Food References: Message-ID: <78129F035DC94A4E8195B6F9B3633881@UdosXPhome> I have the following recipe for Baked Knephla 1 egg, lightly beaten 1 lb. bacon, cut in 1" squares 1/2 tsp. salt 1/2 c. onion 1/2 c. milk 3 to 4 potatoes, peeled & cubed 1 1/4 c. flour 2 qt. water 1pt. cream 1 tsp. salt (c = cup, tsp. = tablespoon) Mix egg, salt, milk and flour to make a stiff dough. Shape dough into several logs. Bring water with salt to a boil. Add potatoes to water. Cook 20 minutes; strain. Pour into a 9x13 inch pan. Brown onion with bacon. Pour over Knephla in pan. Then pour cream over all. Top with bread cubes browned in butter. Bake at 350 ? for 30 - 40 minutes. Maybe this is what you are looking for. Other words for Knephla are knepfla, kneph, knepp, knipfla, knoepfla, knipfels, knoepfel, koechlal, keelki, nipfla, schnitz. Knepfla is the Alemanian word for High German Kn?pfchen = little button. The Alemanian dialect is spoken in the Baden-Wuerttemberg and Switzerland area. With google you can find many more Knepfla recipes. Kind regards from Germany, Edelgard (Strobel) ----- Original Message ----- From: "josie Schmidt" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Food >I just rememebered the name and it was german and I am probably spelling it >wrong but it was Knepft with silent k. > > Also thanks for the information about Heidelberg. Every piece of > information I get is greatly appreciated. > > Josie > > > >> From: grannyblue at peoplepc.com> To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org> >> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:17:12 -0400> Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] >> Food> > Rita Lyster asked about a recipe for potato dumplings. I'm afraid >> I don't> have an exact recipe but I would like to share this story told >> by my Uncle> Ed, now deceased, (in his own words) about potato dumplings >> and pancakes> growing up during the depression in Michigan. I think it >> indicates how the> original recipe may have been adapted and was still >> served with "bacon" and> onions.> > "Supper? Oh yeah, I forgot to >> mention, if we were lucky to get a sack of> potatoes along with the sack >> of flour, a scoop of lard, kind of second hand> stuff, a bag of salt and >> were very lucky to still have one meat "stamp" left> from last month's >> quota, you could get a chunk of saltpork,. Now that went> mighty good >> mixed in with that batch of potato-dumplings Mom used to make> every now >> and then. It's surprising how our Mothers used to be able to cut> up a >> little chunk of salt pork into little nibblets, mix a handful of finely> >> chopped up onion tops, toss them into a pan of hot simmerin ' lard, let >> it> all sizzle a while, till the kitchen started to get a bit blue from >> their> smoke, then she would dump the whole batch, lard and all, into the >> big pot> of potato dumplings after they were drained off and were cooled >> enough to> stir all that stuff together, to make sure our whole family of >> seven will> all get a few nibbles of pork chips and burnt onion tops >> along with those> well lubricated dumplings! .....................All the >> kids, German,> Polock, Belgian, even French & Italian in our neighborhood >> learned to like> Potato pancakes, even if it was a German Polock >> specialty! Our Mothers> sometimes had a whole stack of them, sometimes >> six inches up, didn't make no> matter to us kids."> > Cynthia Howland> > >> _______________________________________________> Ger-Poland-Volhynia >> Mailing List hosted by> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe >> http://www.sggee.org> Mailing l! > ist info > at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > _________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > Ich benutze BullGuard um meinen Rechner sauber zu halten. BullGuard kostenlos ausprobieren: www.bullguard.com From cmduff at redwing.net Mon Sep 29 19:08:18 2008 From: cmduff at redwing.net (Carol Duff) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:08:18 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1940 Canadian Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1ea9894a74c96eb07d2a63d8ddb89ec6 Please tell us more about the 1940 Canadian registration. It seems there is more to research than the two censuses. Carol From marana at tds.net Mon Sep 29 19:22:21 2008 From: marana at tds.net (Sandie) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:22:21 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Recipe, etc. Message-ID: <48E18D5D.1030607@tds.net> My grandmother made a dish called Kugalis (I need to check the spelling). It is a Lithuanian dish but she was German, a descendant of the Salzburgers from what is now Austria. However, she was born in Kovno. Dumplings are common in Austria among the Germans. I will look up the recipe and post it. I do know it included eggs, potatoes and bacon and was baked in the oven. Sandie in Wisconsin From marana at tds.net Mon Sep 29 19:48:28 2008 From: marana at tds.net (Sandie) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:48:28 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kugalis Recipe Message-ID: <48E1937C.9020705@tds.net> Kugalis 1 pound bacon, diced 2 diced large onions 1/2 cup butter 5 pounds russet potatoes, peeled and shredded 1 12 fluid ounce can evaporated milk 6 eggs Directions: 1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). 2. Place bacon in a Dutch oven set over medium heat, cover, and cook until the bacon has softened and begun to release it's grease. Stir in the onion and cook until softened and translucent. Remove the cover, and continue cooking and stirring until the mixture caramelizes and turns a deep, golden brown. Remove from heat and stir in butter to melt. 3. Stir shredded potatoes into the onion mixture, then stir in the evaporated milk and eggs until well combined. Pour into a 9x13-inch glass baking dish. 4. Bake in preheated oven for 1 hour, or until golden on top. Remove and let stand for 10 minutes before slicing into 3x3-inch squares. Serve hot. She always said it tasted better the next day with yet even more cream poured over the top. Regarding the dumplings. As I thought about that potato dumpling that she made I remembered that she first boiled a pork butt, shredded it up and added it to the potato mixture. Dropped it into the broth from the pork butt to cook it. From akroll at sc.rr.com Tue Sep 30 06:01:50 2008 From: akroll at sc.rr.com (alfred kroll) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:01:50 -0400 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Plat-Deutsch Potato meal Message-ID: <12101C3C-718F-41A4-8C4D-BE261FF25AAD@sc.rr.com> I believe the phonetic pronunciation for the potato dumpling is "shaka klitzka". I'm sure it is actually spelled differently. My mother, who came from Wiezendorf, Poland use to make it and my wife who comes from Somsiory, Poland said her mother made it too. Raw potatoes are grated and drained of the water. Eggs, flour, and salt are added. The consistency should be so that you can drop a spoonful into boiling water for about five minutes. Pour the dumplings into a colander and drain. You can use them in a milk soup, with chicken broth or fry with bacon and onions cut up fine. A real stick to your ribs meal! Al Kroll From gpvjem at sasktel.net Tue Sep 30 09:07:22 2008 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:07:22 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1940 Canadian Registration References: <1ea9894a74c96eb07d2a63d8ddb89ec6@sasktel.net> Message-ID: <668F1089CA664125B55A036B0B9968DF@Marsh> Carol: The following website provides considerable information on the Canadian National Registration of 1940. http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-911.007-e.html John Marsch ----------------------------------------------- Please tell us more about the 1940 Canadian registration. It seems there is more to research than the two censuses. Carol From remus at hawaii.edu Tue Sep 30 11:55:26 2008 From: remus at hawaii.edu (William Remus) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:55:26 -1000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Post War Family Reunions Message-ID: As WW II ended, many millions of Germans fled eastern Europe. Many of these families lost connections with other members of their families. I had heard that the Red Cross quickly set up a program to reunite these families which proved very helpful. Does anyone know if the information on these refugee families is still available. If so, could you email me directly or post to the list details on accessing information on these refugees. Regards Bill ******************************************************************** William Remus Emeritus Professor of Information Technology Management 2404 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96822 Telephone: 808-956-7608?? Fax: 808-956-9889 For Information about Bill Remus, go to his website http://remus.shidler.hawaii.edu/ ******************************************************************** From dr.stewner at t-online.de Tue Sep 30 13:53:41 2008 From: dr.stewner at t-online.de (Dr. Frank Stewner) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:53:41 +0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] DRK Suchdienst Message-ID: The link to the page in english is: https://www.drk-suchdienst.eu/content/categoryshow.php?CatID=2&lang=en -------------------------------------------- Frank Stewner