From sonnal at shaw.ca Mon Dec 1 21:42:53 2008 From: sonnal at shaw.ca (Leo S) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:42:53 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Spelling of Names for Database Message-ID: <4934CADD.4030002@shaw.ca> I am preparing a family gedcom for submission to the Society for entry in the Pedigree Database. While editing the information before sending it I have noticed some anomalies in the spelling of family names within individual families. The differences are between the family name recorded in Polish church records and the name as recorded by immigration clerks on landing in North America. The altered names then remained in use on all records and documents by those who immigrated and all descendants born here carry the modified name. My question then is which spelling of the family name should be entered in the gedcom - the Polish spelling, the North American spelling or both? Leo Sonnenberg From gary at warnerengineering.com Mon Dec 1 22:02:00 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:02:00 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Spelling of Names for Database In-Reply-To: <4934CADD.4030002@shaw.ca> References: <4934CADD.4030002@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4934CF58.9040305@warnerengineering.com> Leo, When names are submitted to me for merging with the Master Pedigree Database, there are two things that make names match up or not: 1.) the first six letters of the given name must be the same, and; 2.) the Soundex code must be the same for the surname Therefore, even though Schwarz and Czarnecki are the same name (the first in German and the second in Polish), they will not match up for a possible merge. There are a lot of names that are spelled differently that will merge however, like Smith and Schmidt. Check the Soundex of your surname with http://searches.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/Genea/soundex.sh For Given names, I suggest that you look at http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/ger.php and look at the German given names. There will still be some issues about which name to pick when there is more than one German surname that is the same name- like Adolf and Adolph, both of which are German names. For members of SGGEE, we will soon have a new list of given names posted on our website (members only area), and we will also email that list to all members that should solve that issue. For surnames, my recommendation is that you look at our Substantiated Alternate Surnames list at http://www.sggee.org/AlternateSurnamesDatabaseSubstantiated.pdf to see if your name is one of those names that needs to be converted to the German version of the name, or at least the same Soundex code as a German surname. Gary Warner SGGEE Leo S wrote: > > I am preparing a family gedcom for submission to the Society for entry > in the Pedigree Database. While editing the information before sending > it I have noticed some anomalies in the spelling of family names within > individual families. The differences are between the family name > recorded in Polish church records and the name as recorded by > immigration clerks on landing in North America. The altered names then > remained in use on all records and documents by those who immigrated and > all descendants born here carry the modified name. > My question then is which spelling of the family name should be entered > in the gedcom - the Polish spelling, the North American spelling or both? > > Leo Sonnenberg > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From farose at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 18:16:55 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:16:55 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] OT? Genealogy Quote Message-ID: Edmund Burke had it right! He said, "People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors." My passion for genealogy is vindicated! Rose-Marie From beilsteins at aol.com Tue Dec 2 18:55:51 2008 From: beilsteins at aol.com (beilsteins@aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:55:51 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] OT? Genealogy Quote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB2309C9674309-238-1589@webmail-de19.sysops.aol.com> My favorite genealogy quote is from Hebrews 11:12.?? And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. Steve Beilstein -----Original Message----- From: F&RM Haddad To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 8:16 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] OT? Genealogy Quote Edmund Burke had it right! He said, "People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors." My passion for genealogy is vindicated! Rose-Marie _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From wjmilner at shaw.ca Wed Dec 3 07:59:05 2008 From: wjmilner at shaw.ca (Jack Milner) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:59:05 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Document your Memories Message-ID: <4936ACC9.9030808@shaw.ca> Memories A jet stabbing straight into the wide expanse of a cloud mottled sky, appears as a silver bird towing its tail-like plume of vapor behind. As I watch I get the impression of the trail of memories in the life of an individual. The picture of the present is sharp and clear just as is the plane. As the vapor broadens and dims in the distance it becomes harder to distinguish from the clouds and the mist through which it has passed. So it will be with our memories. They have a way of getting lost as we attempt to peer into the past. Bertha Walston From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Dec 8 17:10:45 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:10:45 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Eduard Kneifel books on line Message-ID: <79pc8o$1fu4ki@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Sorry folks - they are only in German. Eduard Kneifel was a writer, historian, and Lutheran pastor who published a variety of books about the Germans in Russian Poland, especially as histories of specific parishes. His son, Dr.Johannes Kneifel has made them available on line. They can be downloaded at http://www.eduardkneifel.eu Horst Gutsche provided this info on another forum and summarized the books as follows: 1. Geschichte der Evangelisch-Augsburgischen Kirche in Polen (History of the Evangelical Augsburg Church in Poland) 1964 2. Die Pastoren der Evangelisch-Augsburgischen Kirche in Polen (The Pastors of the Evangelical Augsburg Church in Poland) 1967 3. Bischof Dr. Julius Bursche (Bishop Dr. Julius Bursche) 1980 4. Die evangelisch-lutherische Gemeinde Brzeziny (The Evangelical Lutheran Congregation of Brzeziny) 1983 5. Das Werden und Wachsen der Evangelisch-Augsburgischen Kirche in Poland (The Development and Growth of the Evangelical Augsburg Church in Poland) 1988 6. Der Osten im Brennpunkt der Weltgeschichte (The East as the Focus of World History) 7. 479 Lieder, gedichtet in den Jahren 1977 bis 1988 (479 hymns written in the years 1977-1988) by Pastor Dr. theol. Eduard Kneifel. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca From farose at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 06:22:02 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 06:22:02 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Tips for Family History Writing Message-ID: I just receivedd the following (I'm directing you to the URL) this morning - tips for writing your family history. In case anyone is planning on, or actually in the process of, doing that - here are some excellent suggestions. Rose-Marie http://writesparks.com/ws-lite-followups/fwup-53.php From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Dec 10 06:16:30 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:16:30 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia in Wiki Message-ID: <79pc8o$1gi76b@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Years ago, in the formative stages of the Internet, and before SGGEE had been thought of, one of the earliest genealogy websites to exist was a site dedicated to German genealogy. It was set up to include the full gamut of Germanic origins world wide. It contained brief histories of the locations where Germans had migrated as well as lists of research resources. As I recall it, the site was originally called genealogy.com, a domain name that was eventually purchased from its private owners by Ancestry. I had at the time written materials for these pages for the different regions of Russian German research. The material on this site, however, was not lost and it eventually was transposed to the genealogy.net domain name. As developments continued on the Internet, the site became a Wiki style site, allowing for automated input by others. It is now known as http://wiki-en.genealogy.net and is, for the most part, available in both German and English, just as it was in the formative years. Much of my original material had remained on the site but it became badly outdated. Gerhard Koening took it upon himself to rewrite the material for Volhynia and bring it into modern context. These pages are now available at: German - http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Wolhynien English - http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/Volhynia If you'd like, you can still see some of my original material as published for Russian Poland at http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/Russian_Poland . This too badly in need of update but I have not had the time to do it. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca From meadowflower at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 12:29:27 2008 From: meadowflower at verizon.net (Patricia Herron) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:29:27 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karl Preuss Message-ID: <001001c95b06$0006d930$2e01a8c0@D710S1B1> I am new and I am looking for my Grandfather's family. On the church record in Fresno, CA he wrote that he was from Elbinglank, which we believe is now in Poland. His name was Carl Herman Preuss, 10 March 1858. He had a brother, Gustav Adolf Preuss, 28 Aug 1864. Adolph had what was apparently a vaccination certificate that listed parents as Gottlieb Preuss and Caroline Grapentin. Carl apparently lived near San Antonio, TX for several years after he emigrated. Adolph visited him there. Adolph mentioned leaving from Allenstein on his several trips to America. Adolph mentioned several folks in his diaries but never said where they actually lived. He mentioned they had a pew in the local church. I would appreciate any assistance on folks or on the location of Elbinglank. Pat From kgrueneichcarey at hotmail.com Wed Dec 10 12:27:21 2008 From: kgrueneichcarey at hotmail.com (K GRUENEICHCAREY) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:27:21 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynia in wiki -- Congratulations, fyi Message-ID: Hooray for the excellent revision work by Gerhard Koenig! It is an outstanding summary of German genealogy sources for Eastern Europe & their descendants. I immediately bookmarked this page in my German-Russian genealogy tools "Favorites". KGRUENEICHCAREY at hotmail.com From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Dec 10 13:11:57 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:11:57 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karl Preuss In-Reply-To: <001001c95b06$0006d930$2e01a8c0@D710S1B1> References: <001001c95b06$0006d930$2e01a8c0@D710S1B1> Message-ID: Patricia, Any chance that Elbinglank could actually be Elbingland?? The latter would be a term used to describe the "region of Elbing" which was in West Prussia.? See for example: http://www.elbing.de/english.htm http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jfuller/gen_mail_country-ger.html (then look for Elbing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbl%C4%85g and numerous others that will come up with a GOOGLE search. Allenstein is today known as Olsztyn, located some 85 km or so ESE of Elbing (Elblag). Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Patricia Herron Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:29 pm Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Karl Preuss To: Volhynia > I am new and I am looking for my Grandfather's family.? On > the church record in Fresno, CA he wrote that he was from > Elbinglank, which we believe is now in Poland.? His name > was Carl Herman Preuss, 10 March 1858.? He had a > brother,? Gustav Adolf Preuss, 28 Aug 1864.? Adolph > had what was apparently a vaccination certificate that listed > parents as Gottlieb Preuss and Caroline Grapentin.? Carl > apparently lived near San Antonio, TX for several years after he > emigrated.? Adolph visited him there.? Adolph > mentioned leaving from Allenstein on his several trips to > America.? Adolph mentioned several folks in his diaries but > never said where they actually lived.? He mentioned they > had a pew in the local church. > > I would appreciate any assistance on folks or on the location of > Elbinglank. > Pat > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From m.nawrocki at orange.pl Wed Dec 10 13:49:45 2008 From: m.nawrocki at orange.pl (Marcin Nawrocki) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:49:45 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schielmann/Schwebs References: <157D55FD-5337-479B-93CF-B8963AB54712@orange.pl> Message-ID: <42B2B65F-23B1-46BC-AE23-23D6A7540DD6@orange.pl> Hello I am looking for the informations about german colonists in the Dobriner Land and especially about the family SCHIELMANN. My great great grandfather Friedrich Schielmann was born in 1852 in KUJAWA next to OSIEK (OSEK) by the prussian border. Besides I look for the details about SCHWEBS family from Wilhelmsberg [Zbiczno] or small villages around, in Landkreis Strasburg. My great great great grand father lived over there. I will be very grateful about the help or any suggestions Best regards from Warsaw Marcin From Gerhard.Koenig at gmx.net Wed Dec 10 17:47:58 2008 From: Gerhard.Koenig at gmx.net (Gerhard Koenig) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:47:58 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schielmann/Schwebs Message-ID: <20081211014758.171720@gmx.net> Marcin, > informations about german colonists in the Dobriner Land You know the websites of Uwe Kerntopf? (in German only) Address: http://dobriner-land.de/ He is the admin of this free mailing list too :) Address: http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/dobriner-land-l In this list you can write in German and in English too. gerhard -- Take part + Read - http://wolhynien.de Informations + Questions - http://forum.wolhynien.net Museum in Linstow - http://umsiedlermuseum.wolhynien.de Historical Society - http://historischerverein.wolhynien.de -- Sensationsangebot verl?ngert: GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL f?r nur 16,37 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K1308T4569a From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Thu Dec 11 13:43:56 2008 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:43:56 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schielmann/Schwebs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C7CED531682406EA3E96CD7019C18E8@Desktop> Hi Marcin, If you send me more information about your gggrandfather Schielmann's family, I will see what I have. I have several Schielmann (Szylman) marriages in the late 1830s and 1840s and a few births, all recorded in the Rypin-Michalki Ev. Parish which is near Strasburg and Osiek. Many from Osiek went to the R-M Parish. I do not have your gggrandfather although I have a Friedrich Szylman who married Ewa Haaze in 1843. I have always wondered in Schielmann and Schiemann were the same name or originally from the same root. I have Schiemann in my ancestry and there were many in the Rypin-Michalki Parish. There are no Schwebs in this parish, pre 1866. I have indexed most of the records from this parish. I had the very great pleasure of visiting Warsaw and Dobriner Land this summer. Very beautiful both areas. Earl ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:49:45 +0100 From: Marcin Nawrocki Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Schielmann/Schwebs To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <42B2B65F-23B1-46BC-AE23-23D6A7540DD6 at orange.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hello I am looking for the informations about german colonists in the Dobriner Land and especially about the family SCHIELMANN. My great great grandfather Friedrich Schielmann was born in 1852 in KUJAWA next to OSIEK (OSEK) by the prussian border. Besides I look for the details about SCHWEBS family from Wilhelmsberg [Zbiczno] or small villages around, in Landkreis Strasburg. My great great great grand father lived over there. I will be very grateful about the help or any suggestions Best regards from Warsaw Marcin From meadowflower at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 21:46:56 2008 From: meadowflower at verizon.net (Patricia Herron) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:46:56 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Elbing Message-ID: <000001c95bf7$1da80490$2e01a8c0@D710S1B1> In looking back I can see that it is Elbingland. Thank you so much. From DrVbuzz at aol.com Fri Dec 12 17:10:26 2008 From: DrVbuzz at aol.com (DrVbuzz@aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:10:26 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1916 Canadian Census Message-ID: The Family Search Indexing project announced this afternoon that the 1916 Canadian Census Indexing project is now 100% complete. It is my understanding that it will now be double checked and will not be available for searching until that is completed. I'm one of those who is anxious to look and hopefully confirm some information and thought our list may have others with a similar interest. The Indexing Project decided to concentrate on this Census, and I'm sure it will be of interest to this board and the members of SGGEE. Victor Gess Researching in Poland and Volhynia Gering/Gess/Jeske/Jess/Kwast/Mildner/Rode/Wonnick-ek-eck/Riske IwanokaJulianowka/Karlswalde/Moczulki/Satyjew/Shinufka Bielsko/Chmielewo/Kalisch/Karolinow/Plock **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From bne at brigitteneumann.com Sat Dec 13 08:07:58 2008 From: bne at brigitteneumann.com (Brigitte) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:07:58 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak Message-ID: Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Dec 13 12:38:54 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:38:54 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01c95d62$d0993710$71cba530$@net> Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium ============================================================================ ========= You might take a look at Shetlseeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp Doing a search for the town of Olynszak finds some that are similarly spelled, but not exactly the same. If you do a search for Saratow (Saratov), and use its coordinates to look up the correct Krasny Kut (there are 6 of them!), then use those coordinates to look for Olynszak nearby, you don't find anything very close at all. The correct Krasny Kut is only 57.5 miles SE of Saratow. Could it be Olenyakh? It is in Russian Siberia. You can use Shetlseeker to locate the town. What sort of paperwork do you have for the spelling of Olynszak? Not much help. Joe in Texas, USA _______________________________________________ From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Dec 13 12:38:54 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:38:54 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01c95d62$d0993710$71cba530$@net> Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium ============================================================================ ========= You might take a look at Shetlseeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp Doing a search for the town of Olynszak finds some that are similarly spelled, but not exactly the same. If you do a search for Saratow (Saratov), and use its coordinates to look up the correct Krasny Kut (there are 6 of them!), then use those coordinates to look for Olynszak nearby, you don't find anything very close at all. The correct Krasny Kut is only 57.5 miles SE of Saratow. Could it be Olenyakh? It is in Russian Siberia. You can use Shetlseeker to locate the town. What sort of paperwork do you have for the spelling of Olynszak? Not much help. Joe in Texas, USA _______________________________________________ From colnels at telus.net Sat Dec 13 13:30:58 2008 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:30:58 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Markie Petrikau Message-ID: <000401c95d6a$16f5bdd0$44e13970$@net> Was Markie Petrikau in Poland or Russia in 1862? Nelson From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Dec 13 12:38:54 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:38:54 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01c95d62$d0993710$71cba530$@net> Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium ============================================================================ ========= You might take a look at Shetlseeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp Doing a search for the town of Olynszak finds some that are similarly spelled, but not exactly the same. If you do a search for Saratow (Saratov), and use its coordinates to look up the correct Krasny Kut (there are 6 of them!), then use those coordinates to look for Olynszak nearby, you don't find anything very close at all. The correct Krasny Kut is only 57.5 miles SE of Saratow. Could it be Olenyakh? It is in Russian Siberia. You can use Shetlseeker to locate the town. What sort of paperwork do you have for the spelling of Olynszak? Not much help. Joe in Texas, USA _______________________________________________ From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Dec 13 12:38:54 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:38:54 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01c95d62$d0993710$71cba530$@net> Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium ============================================================================ ========= You might take a look at Shetlseeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp Doing a search for the town of Olynszak finds some that are similarly spelled, but not exactly the same. If you do a search for Saratow (Saratov), and use its coordinates to look up the correct Krasny Kut (there are 6 of them!), then use those coordinates to look for Olynszak nearby, you don't find anything very close at all. The correct Krasny Kut is only 57.5 miles SE of Saratow. Could it be Olenyakh? It is in Russian Siberia. You can use Shetlseeker to locate the town. What sort of paperwork do you have for the spelling of Olynszak? Not much help. Joe in Texas, USA _______________________________________________ From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Dec 13 12:38:54 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:38:54 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01c95d62$d0993710$71cba530$@net> Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium ============================================================================ ========= You might take a look at Shetlseeker at http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp Doing a search for the town of Olynszak finds some that are similarly spelled, but not exactly the same. If you do a search for Saratow (Saratov), and use its coordinates to look up the correct Krasny Kut (there are 6 of them!), then use those coordinates to look for Olynszak nearby, you don't find anything very close at all. The correct Krasny Kut is only 57.5 miles SE of Saratow. Could it be Olenyakh? It is in Russian Siberia. You can use Shetlseeker to locate the town. What sort of paperwork do you have for the spelling of Olynszak? Not much help. Joe in Texas, USA _______________________________________________ From colnels at telus.net Sat Dec 13 13:30:58 2008 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:30:58 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Markie Petrikau Message-ID: <000401c95d6a$16f5bdd0$44e13970$@net> Was Markie Petrikau in Poland or Russia in 1862? Nelson From robinquilter at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 00:03:46 2008 From: robinquilter at gmail.com (Robin Grube) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:03:46 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Warsaw records 1860s Message-ID: Hello list members: I have been researching my German ancestors from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire and I thought the experience I gained would help me now that I am searching for more information on another German line from Poland/Russia. Not so! I feel like a beginner again, but can someone tell me if Germans in Warsaw ( probably Lutheran) used one or several churches, did they live in mixed neighborhoods, or by themselves in the 1860s? My greatgrandfather came to the US in 1892 with wife and new baby, from Kiev. I don't know how long he had lived there, but he listed on official documents that he was born in Warsaw. HAAK, Karl * 26.11.1863 Were there Ortsippenbuchs or other German records from this area? Are Family History Library microfilmed church records available? Thanks for any ideas of paths to pursue. Robin Haak Grube From bne at brigitteneumann.com Sun Dec 14 06:54:47 2008 From: bne at brigitteneumann.com (Brigitte) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:54:47 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Otto FROEHLICH, Wegrow Message-ID: Hello, I found in the book about the pastors in Poland from Eduard Kneifel: FROEHLICH, Servatius Albert born in Elzbietow at Wengrow at 13. Mai 1896 as son of the teacher and kantor Otto FROEHLICH. Otto FROEHLICH (22) was witness of marriage in 1887 at Wegrow for my ggrandparents Friedrich NEUMANN and Marianne REINING/REINIK nice day Brigitte Neumann (Belgium) From bne at brigitteneumann.com Sun Dec 14 07:05:23 2008 From: bne at brigitteneumann.com (Brigitte) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:05:23 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Christian SZEZEPANSKI from Aleksandrow/Lukow Message-ID: In a copy of the dokument of marriage of my ggrandparents 1882 oo Paul NEUMANN and Pauline BULS I found as wittness to marriage Christian SZEZEPANSKI (27) living in Aleksandrow/Lukow, related to Paul NEUMANN Has someone this Christian SZEZEPANSKI in his list? Brigitte Neumann (Belgium) From gary at warnerengineering.com Sun Dec 14 06:57:20 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:57:20 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Christian SZEZEPANSKI from Aleksandrow/Lukow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49451ED0.5050308@warnerengineering.com> Brigitte, Assuming that the witness was a German, then you should be aware that the word Szczepan is the Polish equivalent of the German name Stefan. Since the Polish version of the name is somewhat loosely derived from the German name, then you should be looking for Stefan, Stefen, Steffen, or any other name with the beginning letters "Stef" Gary Warner Brigitte wrote: > In a copy of the dokument of marriage of my ggrandparents > 1882 oo Paul NEUMANN and Pauline BULS > I found as wittness to marriage Christian SZEZEPANSKI (27) living in > Aleksandrow/Lukow, related to Paul NEUMANN > > Has someone this Christian SZEZEPANSKI in his list? > > Brigitte Neumann (Belgium) > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Dec 14 07:30:19 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:30:19 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Markie Petrikau In-Reply-To: <000401c95d6a$16f5bdd0$44e13970$@net> References: <000401c95d6a$16f5bdd0$44e13970$@net> Message-ID: <7ablht$2646ht@pd5mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Nelson, Off hand I cannot find a place called Markie Petrikau. However, I can say that between 1815 and WW I, Poland did not exist as an independent nation. People immigrating from what is known as Poland today would have been carrying either Prussian, Russian, or Austrian passports. If we are to assume that this Markie is associated with Petrikau Trybunalksie or Petrikau Parish, then it would have been Russia in 1862. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 02:30 PM 13/12/2008, Nelson Itterman wrote: >Was Markie Petrikau in Poland or Russia in 1862? > >Nelson > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Dec 14 07:45:50 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:45:50 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Warsaw records 1860s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79pc8o$1i3c4u@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Robin, Your search will be complicated by the fact that the reference to Warsaw (depending on the source of your information) could be to the city, diocese, or province. If the latter two, you could end up looking at quite a large number of different Lutheran Parishes. Have you looked at records for Kiev parish to see what other info might be available for the family? The data stops in 1885 but you could find info about Karl's siblings if you know them. To view the records on line, go to http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch , click on Asia, and then on Russian Lutheran Church Books. There are no convenient Ortssippenbuch for Poland. Really old church records might be in German but more typically they are in Polish before 1867 and Russian Cyrillic after that. A list of microfilms for the Warsaw parish itself can be found at http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInRusPoland In place of the Ortssippenbuch, we do have our SGGEE database extractions available to members only but your Karl is not found there yet. However, I am not sure if anyone has been working on extraction of the Warsaw Parish records. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 01:03 AM 14/12/2008, Robin Grube wrote: >Hello list members: >I have been researching my German ancestors from the former Austro-Hungarian >Empire and I thought the experience I gained would help me now that I am >searching for more information on another German line from Poland/Russia. >Not so! I feel like a beginner again, but can someone tell me if Germans in >Warsaw ( probably Lutheran) used one or several churches, did they live in >mixed neighborhoods, or by themselves in the 1860s? My greatgrandfather came >to the US in 1892 with wife and new baby, from Kiev. I don't know how long >he had lived there, but he listed on official documents that he was born in >Warsaw. >HAAK, Karl * 26.11.1863 >Were there Ortsippenbuchs or other German records from this area? Are Family >History Library microfilmed church records available? Thanks for any ideas >of paths to pursue. Robin Haak Grube > From dabookk54 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 09:14:16 2008 From: dabookk54 at yahoo.com (Karl Krueger) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:14:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <938532.62527.qm@web55302.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Dear Brigitte, No one seems to have replied to this request so I thought I would add a little. The Germans often referred to Siberia loosely but during WW I most Germans were deported to places starting near Samara and Saratov and could be as far as Troitsk, Chelyabinsk, Kustanai (Qostanay), and even as far as Samarkand, Uzbekistan. If your family was more west in 1917-18 like around Saratov then it is more likley they returned to Poland in 1918. If they were further east like the other places I mention then they may have returned until 1921-22. Unfortunately I can't find Olynszak for you but maybe you will have a better idea what possibilities you need to look into with this added background. Aside from Olynszak is there another larger city they use in reference to this location (do terms like Kustanai, Turgaiski, Orenburg sound familiar with your family history)? Karl --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Brigitte wrote: From: Brigitte Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for village or town Olynszak To: "ger-poland-volhynia" Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 11:07 AM Hello, my grandparents were under those people who had been banished from the district around Warszawa to central russia. There one uncle was born in april 1916 at Krasny Kut /Saratow. In one dokument I found the location of born for the next uncle at OLYNSZAK in october 1918. This village/town I cann?t find. My father told me, that his mother told him, that they were in Sibiria and that they came back after first world war traveling from village to village as they earned the money for further journey. So this village could be anywhere between Siberia and Polen. I would be thankfull for any help Brigitte from Belgium _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gstelter at uoguelph.ca Sun Dec 14 14:23:25 2008 From: gstelter at uoguelph.ca (Gilbert A Stelter) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:23:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for families Stelter and Dreusner In-Reply-To: <130908549.14766961229292929162.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> Hello all; I joined this group a few days ago and have been impressed by the quality of the research many of you are doing. My name is Gilbert (Gil) Stelter and I'm a retired University Professor of History (University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario. My wife and I are planning to go to Volhynia next September. Both sides of my family are Germans from Volhynia. My grandfather, Ludwig Stelter, was born in Radwanky(a), Poland in 1855 and migrated to Vladimir-Volensk (near the Polish border) in 1867 with his parents, married Amalia Demm. of similar background, in 1880. They had two daughters, them migrated to Winnipeg in 1867. They must have had contact, or been members of the Moravian Brethern in Poland and Volhynia, because when they eventually ended up in Southern Alberta, they contacted the Moravian communities around Edmonton, in particular, Bruederheim, and eventually moved up there. Those Moravian communities such as Bruederheim, had been founded by Moravians from Volyhnia in 1894,led by Andreas Lilge, but I have not found any information about where in Volyhnia they came from in the official history of that congregation. Does anyone in this group have more info? My mother's family name was Dreusner ( my email will not allow me to write a u and unlaut)and called themselves Driesner in Canada. They lived in some of the 200 some German settlements just to the north of Zhitomer, about 60 miles west of Kiev. I have the names of the communities involved there and will be visiting them with Donald Miller, whom some of you know, next September. But its the Moravian connection I'm looking for at this point. Regards, Gil Stelter From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Dec 14 15:37:21 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:37:21 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for families Stelter and Dreusner In-Reply-To: <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uogue lph.ca> References: <130908549.14766961229292929162.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <7au4gf$17p3nk@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Gil, You can find a brief history of Moravian Brethren in Russian Poland at http://www.sggee.org/parish_histories/MoravianPoland/MoravianGeneralHist.html . We'd be pleased to have someone provide a similar summary for those in Volhynia. As I understand it, the Moravian Brethren originally were, what we would call today, a para-church organization that sought to help existing church people to improve their piety and devotion to God. Some Lutheran pastors would allow them to work within their congregations while others vehemently rejected them. It seems that they evolved into a more formal independent denomination during the 19th century. I would say that the vast majority of Moravian Brethren in Volhynia were converted Lutherans. A few of them migrated directly from Russian Poland. This conversion process, especially in the area northwest of Zhitomir causes research problems for Baptists and Moravians because their records did not survive while the Lutheran ones did. Depending on when the conversion took place, you may be able to bridge that gap by researching the Lutheran records. Your Stelter cousins often attend our conventions when they are in Edmonton. We have in the past featured Moravian Brethren history and genealogy when meeting in Edmonton because of its proximity to those settlements. There are probably some articles about them in past Journals but have not looked up what those might be. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 03:23 PM 14/12/2008, Gilbert A Stelter wrote: >Hello all; >I joined this group a few days ago and have been impressed by the >quality of the research many of you are doing. > >My name is Gilbert (Gil) Stelter and I'm a retired University >Professor of History (University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario. My wife >and I are planning to go to Volhynia next September. > >Both sides of my family are Germans from Volhynia. My grandfather, >Ludwig Stelter, was born in Radwanky(a), Poland in 1855 and migrated >to Vladimir-Volensk (near the Polish border) in 1867 with his >parents, married Amalia Demm. of similar background, in 1880. They >had two daughters, them migrated to Winnipeg in 1867. They must have >had contact, or been members of the Moravian Brethern in Poland and >Volhynia, because when they eventually ended up in Southern Alberta, >they contacted the Moravian communities >around Edmonton, in particular, Bruederheim, and eventually moved up there. > >Those Moravian communities such as Bruederheim, had been founded by >Moravians from Volyhnia in 1894,led by Andreas Lilge, but I have not >found any information about where in Volyhnia they came from in the >official history of that congregation. Does anyone in this group >have more info? > >My mother's family name was Dreusner ( my email will not allow me to >write a u and unlaut)and called themselves Driesner in Canada. They >lived in some of the 200 some German settlements just to the north >of Zhitomer, about 60 miles west of Kiev. I have the names of the >communities involved there and will be visiting them with Donald >Miller, whom some of you know, next September. >But its the Moravian connection I'm looking for at this point. >Regards, > >Gil Stelter > From gary at warnerengineering.com Sun Dec 14 16:40:00 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:40:00 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for families Stelter and Dreusner In-Reply-To: <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <4945A760.2020100@warnerengineering.com> Gil, Both you, your parents, and your grandfather Ludwig Stelter are already in the Master Pedigree Database, courtesy of James and Sandra Stelter- member S109 (James is also a grandson of Ludwig). You will want to contact them if you have not already done so. Gary Warner SGGEE Gilbert A Stelter wrote: > Hello all; > I joined this group a few days ago and have been impressed by the quality of the research many of you are doing. > > My name is Gilbert (Gil) Stelter and I'm a retired University Professor of History (University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario. My wife and I are planning to go to Volhynia next September. > > Both sides of my family are Germans from Volhynia. My grandfather, Ludwig Stelter, was born in Radwanky(a), Poland in 1855 and migrated to Vladimir-Volensk (near the Polish border) in 1867 with his parents, married Amalia Demm. of similar background, in 1880. They had two daughters, them migrated to Winnipeg in 1867. They must have had contact, or been members of the Moravian Brethern in Poland and Volhynia, because when they eventually ended up in Southern Alberta, they contacted the Moravian communities > around Edmonton, in particular, Bruederheim, and eventually moved up there. > > Those Moravian communities such as Bruederheim, had been founded by Moravians from Volyhnia in 1894,led by Andreas Lilge, but I have not found any information about where in Volyhnia they came from in the official history of that congregation. Does anyone in this group have more info? > > My mother's family name was Dreusner ( my email will not allow me to write a u and unlaut)and called themselves Driesner in Canada. They lived in some of the 200 some German settlements just to the north of Zhitomer, about 60 miles west of Kiev. I have the names of the communities involved there and will be visiting them with Donald Miller, whom some of you know, next September. > But its the Moravian connection I'm looking for at this point. > Regards, > > Gil Stelter > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From albertmuth at aol.com Sun Dec 14 19:16:46 2008 From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:16:46 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Stelter - Demm marriage Message-ID: <8CB2C7AB215DF4E-1654-FCE@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Hi Gil, Welcome to?SG.? Since Gary drew attention to the fact that your family had already input some of your family into the Master Pedigree Database, I thought I would check it out. Well, like me, I see you have some clean-up to do in the family data.? Ludwig Stelter could not have married Amalie Demn 1880 in Alberta, then proceed to have three children born in Vladimir Volinsk. However, you might want to note down the real deal. LDS film #2380027 for Rozyszcze 1880 #107 Date of Marriage:? 13 May 1880 Place of Marriage:? Mariendorf GROOM:? Ludwig Stellter, aged 24, son of Martin Stellter of Gnojno and Marianne (Riechert).? Born in Rawa. BRIDE:? Amalie Demm, aged 17, daughter of Martin Demm of Gnojno and Amalie (Mueller).? Both Lutheran The birthplace on file is "Radwanky", apparently with a locative suffix on it. The village of Radwanka is just SW of Rawa Mazowiecka. Unfortunately, the birthplace of Amalie Demm is not given in this record.? She has siblings who may have married; I will keep poking around for a while, maybe I will find more. Al Muth (formerly in Modern Languages, Grand Valley State University) From albertmuth at aol.com Sun Dec 14 20:10:09 2008 From: albertmuth at aol.com (albertmuth@aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:10:09 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Juliane Demm's marriages Message-ID: <8CB2C82278DE1BB-EB8-14B6@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> Trust me, folks.? It is usually not this easy. When I reported finding the marriage of Ludwig Stelter and Amalie Demm, an email or so ago, her birthplace was not given. I thought that maybe records on her siblings would provide information.? They do. The SGGEE master pedigree database shows that Amalie's sister Juliane married Diengott Wende. The stpete marriage index for 1876-1879 says Diengott Wende married Juliane Musal.? And that Reinhold Musal married Juliane Dymm. Both marriages are in Rozyszcze I am not sure whether I would rather face a spelling test or a pronunciation test on that town. Both marriages will be found on LDS film #2380026 MUSAL 1876 #44 Date of Marriage:? 15 Feb 1876 place:? Rozyszcze (at the Bethaus) Groom:? MUSAL, Reinhold, aged 18, residing Grabina bei Ochnuwka, born in Rohrbruch bei Bromberg, son of Michael Musal and Marianne. Parents are living. Bride:? DYMM, Juliane, aged 19, of Mariendorf, born in Grembach, Kr. Brzeziny, gouv. Petrikau, daughter of the late Martin Dymm and Amalie. WENDE 1878 #9 Date of Marriage 10 Feb 1878 at Rozyszcze Groom:? WENDE, Diengott, of Ludwi..., age 33, son of Diengott Wende and Juliane (Deckert).? Born at Graetz Prussia. Bride:? MUSAL, Juliane, nee Dymm, aged 21, daughter of late Martin Dymm and Amalie (Mueller). Born in Gruenbach, Kirchspiel Brzeziny al muth From sandstel at live.com Sun Dec 14 20:40:52 2008 From: sandstel at live.com (sandra stelter) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:40:52 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for families Stelter and Dreusner In-Reply-To: <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <130908549.14766961229292929162.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> <98238045.14767681229293405492.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: Hi Gilbert As far as I can determine, the Stelter connection to Moravians came in Canada, not in Volhynia. The 1901 census of the subdistrict of Josephsburg, Assiniboia, NWT lists Stelters as Lutheran. They came in contact with Moravians through visits of Clement Hoyer, Moravian minister at Bruderheim who first visited the Josephsburg/Newburg area southeast of Medicine Hat AB in 1900 (this Josephsburg is not to be confused with the one near Edmonton). Hoyler learned of Ludwig Stelter through a resident of Heimtal (near Fort Saskatchewan) who met Stelter sheep-shearing near Swift Current SK. (These people really got around and had connections far and wide.) The Andreas Lilge story in From Bush to Bushels, A History of Bruderheim and District, 1983, p, 6 and 7, does include a number of place names in Volhynia. Jerry Frank of SGGEE helped me pinpoint some of these, and I can share that with you, but I don't think they are part of the Stelter story. The Stelter time in Volhynia seems to be in the area of Elisabetpol where we have Lutheran records of Ludwig and Amalia's first three children. So.....if there is a Moravian connection in the old country, I haven't found it yet. I will be in touch with you re our common history but just wanted to post this on the list serve in case there are others with this same interest. Jim and Sandra Stelter > Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:23:25 -0500 > From: gstelter at uoguelph.ca > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] looking for families Stelter and Dreusner > > Hello all; > I joined this group a few days ago and have been impressed by the quality of the research many of you are doing. > > My name is Gilbert (Gil) Stelter and I'm a retired University Professor of History (University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario. My wife and I are planning to go to Volhynia next September. > > Both sides of my family are Germans from Volhynia. My grandfather, Ludwig Stelter, was born in Radwanky(a), Poland in 1855 and migrated to Vladimir-Volensk (near the Polish border) in 1867 with his parents, married Amalia Demm. of similar background, in 1880. They had two daughters, them migrated to Winnipeg in 1867. They must have had contact, or been members of the Moravian Brethern in Poland and Volhynia, because when they eventually ended up in Southern Alberta, they contacted the Moravian communities > around Edmonton, in particular, Bruederheim, and eventually moved up there. > > Those Moravian communities such as Bruederheim, had been founded by Moravians from Volyhnia in 1894,led by Andreas Lilge, but I have not found any information about where in Volyhnia they came from in the official history of that congregation. Does anyone in this group have more info? > > My mother's family name was Dreusner ( my email will not allow me to write a u and unlaut)and called themselves Driesner in Canada. They lived in some of the 200 some German settlements just to the north of Zhitomer, about 60 miles west of Kiev. I have the names of the communities involved there and will be visiting them with Donald Miller, whom some of you know, next September. > But its the Moravian connection I'm looking for at this point. > Regards, > > Gil Stelter > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _________________________________________________________________ From sandstel at live.com Sun Dec 14 21:10:41 2008 From: sandstel at live.com (sandra stelter) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:10:41 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Juliane Demm's marriages In-Reply-To: <8CB2C82278DE1BB-EB8-14B6@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB2C82278DE1BB-EB8-14B6@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wow! I've been working on my husband's hopelessly-complex (I thought) families since I married into them 40 years ago and what a lot of slugging. Then this past year Jerry Frank and Rose Ingram patiently deal with my confused questions. And now All Muth comes up with all sorts of stuff in response to a new members query. And all along many more of you give time and knowledge to help us sort though the unsortable. Way to go, SGGEE! Love you all! Sandra Stelter > To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:10:09 -0500 > From: albertmuth at aol.com > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Juliane Demm's marriages > > Trust me, folks.? It is usually not this easy. > > When I reported finding the marriage of Ludwig Stelter and Amalie Demm, an email or so ago, her birthplace was not given. > I thought that maybe records on her siblings would provide information.? They do. > > The SGGEE master pedigree database shows that Amalie's sister Juliane married Diengott Wende. > > The stpete marriage index for 1876-1879 says Diengott Wende married Juliane Musal.? And that Reinhold Musal married Juliane Dymm. > Both marriages are in Rozyszcze > > I am not sure whether I would rather face a spelling test or a pronunciation test on that town. > > Both marriages will be found on LDS film #2380026 > > MUSAL > 1876 #44 > Date of Marriage:? 15 Feb 1876 > place:? Rozyszcze (at the Bethaus) > Groom:? MUSAL, Reinhold, aged 18, residing Grabina bei Ochnuwka, born in Rohrbruch bei Bromberg, son of Michael Musal and Marianne. Parents are living. > Bride:? DYMM, Juliane, aged 19, of Mariendorf, born in Grembach, Kr. Brzeziny, gouv. Petrikau, daughter of the late Martin Dymm and Amalie. > > WENDE > 1878 #9 > Date of Marriage 10 Feb 1878 at Rozyszcze > Groom:? WENDE, Diengott, of Ludwi..., age 33, son of Diengott Wende and Juliane (Deckert).? Born at Graetz Prussia. > Bride:? MUSAL, Juliane, nee Dymm, aged 21, daughter of late Martin Dymm and Amalie (Mueller). Born in Gruenbach, Kirchspiel Brzeziny > > > al muth > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv _________________________________________________________________ From hhowell at lakedalelink.net Sat Dec 13 15:19:36 2008 From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net (hhowell) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:19:36 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records Message-ID: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45@HGHOWELL> I need some advise and direction. My wife's aunt was removed to Russia from Poland prior to WW I. She returned after the war and reclaimed the family property. Her husband had immigrated to the US prior to the war. Her name was Augusta (Konn) Fenske, b 5 Jun 1879 m Ed Fenske. Children at the time of her removal were Ed Fenske, b 7 Aug 1910 and twin girls born about 1912. Family story is that the twin girls died while in exile. Where could I start looking for records. Herschuel Howell From bronklimach at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 02:19:16 2008 From: bronklimach at gmail.com (Bronwyn Klimach) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:19:16 +0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records In-Reply-To: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45@HGHOWELL> References: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <129d86830812150219u2faee876jf2dab0533767ee9d@mail.gmail.com> Herscheul, Are you able to tell us where this property was, and if this is the location of your wife's aunt's birth, marriage etc? The location is essential for finding vital records. If you are trying to find information about the death of this lady's daughters, sometimes this is recorded in the place from which they were exiled. Kind regards, Bronwyn. On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:19 PM, hhowell wrote: > I need some advise and direction. My wife's aunt was removed to Russia > from Poland prior to WW I. She returned after the war and reclaimed the > family property. Her husband had immigrated to the US prior to the war. > > Her name was Augusta (Konn) Fenske, b 5 Jun 1879 m Ed Fenske. Children at > the time of her removal were Ed Fenske, b 7 Aug 1910 and twin girls born > about 1912. Family story is that the twin girls died while in exile. > > Where could I start looking for records. > > Herschuel Howell > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From benovich at imt.net Mon Dec 15 11:41:42 2008 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:41:42 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records References: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <000e01c95eed$27bfa160$0500a8c0@richard01> Herschuel--- Are you sure the removal from Poland was accomplished BEFORE W.W. I? From what you say, it sounds more like you're talking about the removal DURING the war, probably in early 1915, when a few hundred thousand ethnic Germans were sent into exile. If there are any official records of the removal of individual families from Poland during W.W. I, they haven't been found yet, and most likely there aren't any. It was all done in haste and disorder, under military command. Some Germans in Poland were exiled in the early months of the war and were allowed to buy train tickets. If the Russian railroad administration preserved any records of this, such purchases might be recorded, but so far as I know, no one knows whether this was done or if such records still exist. If any records of your wife's aunt's retrieval of her family property exist, I would think they would be in the court records of whatever town or district they lived. It would take someone more expert than I on the current organization of Polish archives to tell you where such records might now exist, if they survived W.W. II at all. In short, we're fighting against long odds in this matter. Dick Benert ----- Original Message ----- From: "hhowell" To: "SGGEE LIST" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records >I need some advise and direction. My wife's aunt was removed to Russia >from Poland prior to WW I. She returned after the war and reclaimed the >family property. Her husband had immigrated to the US prior to the war. > > Her name was Augusta (Konn) Fenske, b 5 Jun 1879 m Ed Fenske. Children at > the time of her removal were Ed Fenske, b 7 Aug 1910 and twin girls born > about 1912. Family story is that the twin girls died while in exile. > > Where could I start looking for records. > > Herschuel Howell > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1848 - Release Date: 12/14/2008 12:28 PM -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1848 - Release Date: 12/14/2008 12:28 PM From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Mon Dec 15 12:20:38 2008 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:20:38 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7FEA64414E5445E2BE6443E917F5DFBA@Desktop> Herschuel, I can't help you specifically but the Fenske name is common in the Plock area. I am familiar with the name in the Michalki-Rypin parish and also in the Lutheran Churches around Torun (Thorn). One of my earliest ancestors was a Fenske from Thorn in the late 1600s and that may be where your family also originated from. However, between WWI and the 1600s is a lot of research and I think you'd have to get Augusta's parents' names to be able to research the databases that are available. Good luck. Earl Schultz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:19:36 -0600 From: "hhowell" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records To: "SGGEE LIST" Message-ID: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45 at HGHOWELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I need some advise and direction. My wife's aunt was removed to Russia from Poland prior to WW I. She returned after the war and reclaimed the family property. Her husband had immigrated to the US prior to the war. Her name was Augusta (Konn) Fenske, b 5 Jun 1879 m Ed Fenske. Children at the time of her removal were Ed Fenske, b 7 Aug 1910 and twin girls born about 1912. Family story is that the twin girls died while in exile. Where could I start looking for records. Herschuel Howell ------------------------------ From robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca Mon Dec 15 14:39:15 2008 From: robertnorenberg at yahoo.ca (Robert Norenberg) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:39:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ludwig Stelter Message-ID: <237763.67206.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just thought I would mention that Marianne Reichert (born circa 1822) re married in 1886 to Christian Krentz (born circa 1828). Christian's first wife was Caroline Pipke? circa 1823-1886. Sorry Al, I meant to send the message here. Robert __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From jguasch at fastmail.net Mon Dec 15 15:09:16 2008 From: jguasch at fastmail.net (Joyce Guasch) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:09:16 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records In-Reply-To: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45@HGHOWELL> References: <000c01c95d79$467bbc30$d3c32e45@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <8279A08646304D3CB27FFD77C87D2398@desktop2008> I just finished extracting EWZ records from a film covering four villages in the Wlodawa area of East Poland. Two sisters living in Dubeczno: Auguste Fenske, born 1872 in Laskowizna near Warchau and Karoline Fenske born 1881 in the Chelm area. Their father: Jakob Fenske, born Laskowizna and died in Poprawka. If you are interested in seeing these records, let me know and I'll email them to you. Joyce Guasch -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of hhowell Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 3:20 PM To: SGGEE LIST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Locating records I need some advise and direction. My wife's aunt was removed to Russia from Poland prior to WW I. She returned after the war and reclaimed the family property. Her husband had immigrated to the US prior to the war. Her name was Augusta (Konn) Fenske, b 5 Jun 1879 m Ed Fenske. Children at the time of her removal were Ed Fenske, b 7 Aug 1910 and twin girls born about 1912. Family story is that the twin girls died while in exile. Where could I start looking for records. Herschuel Howell _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From ron at neuman.ca Mon Dec 15 15:16:11 2008 From: ron at neuman.ca (Ron Neuman) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:16:11 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Otto FROEHLICH, Wegrow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.1.20081215160202.01c91f20@mail.neuman.ca> I notice the reference to Wegrow. Does anyone know if there are any records available yet for the Wegrow Parish? Or any written histories of the parish (by pastors or others)? I am embarking on a research project for my wife Karen's family. Their migration path was evidently from Wegrow parish in Poland to Novograd Volynsk in Volhynia; and from there to the Beausejour district of Manitoba. The family names are Schewe, Krempin, Dahms and Harms. I have searched the St. Petersburg records with some success, but all clues (including oral history) lead to Wegrow..... At 07:54 AM 12/14/2008, Brigitte wrote: >Hello, > >I found in the book about the pastors in Poland from Eduard Kneifel: > >FROEHLICH, Servatius Albert >born in Elzbietow at Wengrow at 13. Mai 1896 as son of the teacher and >kantor Otto FROEHLICH. > >Otto FROEHLICH (22) was witness of marriage in 1887 at Wegrow for my >ggrandparents Friedrich NEUMANN and Marianne REINING/REINIK > >nice day >Brigitte Neumann (Belgium) > > >_______________________________________________ >Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From farose at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 08:52:13 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:52:13 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records Message-ID: I've come across an interesting "comment" in Polish marriage records, and I'm wondering what it means. It says that the couple "did not make any pre-marital agreement between them". I'm wondering if that is a euphemism for "not having carnal knowledge", to use another euphemism. And if it was, what about women who were obviously pregnant when they married? I'm told that it didn't appear to be an issue, as long as they married before the child was born. Of course, it could mean something entirely different. Anyone know? Rose-Marie From Dhwunsch at aol.com Tue Dec 16 09:31:23 2008 From: Dhwunsch at aol.com (Dhwunsch@aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:31:23 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records Message-ID: I think it means they did not have a pre-nuptial like what's mine is mine and your is yours if they divorce just like it is today. Diane In a message dated 12/16/2008 10:54:53 A.M. Central Standard Time, farose at gmail.com writes: I've come across an interesting "comment" in Polish marriage records, and I'm wondering what it means. It says that the couple "did not make any pre-marital agreement between them". I'm wondering if that is a euphemism for "not having carnal knowledge", to use another euphemism. And if it was, what about women who were obviously pregnant when they married? I'm told that it didn't appear to be an issue, as long as they married before the child was born. Of course, it could mean something entirely different. Anyone know? Rose-Marie _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Tue Dec 16 09:52:46 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:52:46 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree that it has to do with a written contract but, since divorce in those years was very uncommon, I think it has more to do with practices of dowry that existed in certain locations and cultures.? It may have had little implication to the traditions and practices of German Lutherans but the phrase had to be included per the standard Napoleonic format.? Not saying they don't exist but I have never seen a record where it states that such a contract did exist.? For that reason I suspect that such contracts were officially discouraged.? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Dhwunsch at aol.com Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:36 am Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records To: farose at gmail.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > I think it means they did not have a pre-nuptial like? > what's mine is mine > and your is yours if they divorce just like it is? today. > Diane > ? > ? > In a message dated 12/16/2008 10:54:53 A.M. Central Standard > Time,? > farose at gmail.com writes: > > I've? come across an interesting "comment" in Polish > marriage records, and > I'm? wondering what it means. It says that the couple "did > not make? any > pre-marital agreement between them". > > I'm wondering if that is a? euphemism for "not having > carnal knowledge", to > use another euphemism. And? if it was, what about women who > were obviously > pregnant when they married?? I'm told that it didn't appear > to be an issue, > as long as they married? before the child was born. > > Of course, it could mean something entirely? different. > Anyone? know? > > Rose-Marie > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia? Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at? > http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > email, and > favorite sites in one place.? Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From bne at brigitteneumann.com Tue Dec 16 11:45:24 2008 From: bne at brigitteneumann.com (Brigitte) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:45:24 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] WG: Otto FROEHLICH, Wegrow Message-ID: -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: Ron Neuman [mailto:ron at neuman.ca] Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 00:16 An: bne at brigitteneumann.com; ger-poland-volhynia Betreff: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Otto FROEHLICH, Wegrow I notice the reference to Wegrow. Does anyone know if there are any records available yet for the Wegrow Parish? Or any written histories of the parish (by pastors or others)? I am embarking on a research project for my wife Karen's family. Their migration path was evidently from Wegrow parish in Poland to Novograd Volynsk in Volhynia; and from there to the Beausejour district of Manitoba. The family names are Schewe, Krempin, Dahms and Harms. I have searched the St. Petersburg records with some success, but all clues (including oral history) lead to Wegrow..... At 07:54 AM 12/14/2008, Brigitte wrote: >Hello, > >I found in the book about the pastors in Poland from Eduard Kneifel: > >FROEHLICH, Servatius Albert >born in Elzbietow at Wengrow at 13. Mai 1896 as son of the teacher and >kantor Otto FROEHLICH. > >Otto FROEHLICH (22) was witness of marriage in 1887 at Wegrow for my >ggrandparents Friedrich NEUMANN and Marianne REINING/REINIK > >nice day >Brigitte Neumann (Belgium) > > >_______________________________________________ >Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Wed Dec 17 08:41:01 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:41:01 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Suggestions for website Message-ID: As some of you may have heard, we are planning an upgrade for the SGGEE website in 2009.? This will primarily be a cosmetic upgrade so don't worry about not being able to find your favourite things.? Menu reorganization will be kept to a minimum. However, if we are going to make changes, we might as well also consider possible improvements to the site.? Sometimes those like me who run a site get too focused on existing situations so we forget about possible improvements.? So, this is a call for everyone to be heard. Please send me your ideas for improvement but try to limit it to no more than the TWO most important ones.? Please send your suggestions to webmaster at sggee.org - DO NOT send them to this mailing list as we do not need to discuss them.? By sending to that address, you can know that the website committee is looking at your ideas, not just me as webmaster. All ideas will receive serious consideration but we cannot guarantee that an idea will be implemented.? Obviously if several similar suggestions come in, they will get more consideration.? An idea may not be practical from a design point of view or it may result in conflict with some other important process.? But we will seriously look at all ideas.? Your ideas can range from a pointer to another site design or feature that you like to menu ideas to colour suggestions, etc. etc. In thinking about this, please keep in mind the following: 1.? The site layout and design has to be relatively simple.? We will not incorporate any flash pages, or similar artistic devices.? Certainly ideas about static artwork and graphics to make the site more attractive will be considered within the limits of our design capabilities. 2.? We are ultimately a provider of information on our site (with over 1000 pages of information) so that should be taken into consideration relative to the complexity of your ideas. 3.? Except for the Mailing List and Bulletin Board, our site does not focus on social interaction.? You may want to offer thoughts on the Bulletin Board.? As it stands right now, it may not be included in the new design. 4.? Please note that our next version will have a "full screen" design (in contrast to the current centered fixed width design) so you do not have to include that as a suggestion.? 5.? For those of you that understand web design principals, frames will NOT be considered for our design. 6.? Ideas about added content are always welcome but they are not the focus of this request.? Content can be added at any time.? We are primarily looking for ideas affecting the upcoming redesign. So let your creative juices and suggestions flow.? If the volume of ideas becomes too high, I may not be able to respond personally to every idea but I will try to at least let you know if something specific stands in the way of implementing it. Jerry Frank, SGGEE Webmaster webmaster at sggee.org From farose at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 09:41:38 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:41:38 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions Message-ID: First of all, thank-you to those who responded to the list and to me privately about the "agreement before marriage" question I posed. It does seem as if it could be an "artifact" of the Napoleonic format - legally necessary though likely not culturally relevant. Some questions about Milewski: One is - is this a polonization of a German name, and if so, what is the German name likely to be? I have a pair of ancestors - Peter Sell and Anna Milewski who were married in Mlawa, Poland, Mar. 1854. This information is at about 3rd hand - Peter was 26 and Anna was 23. No place of birth is given for them (except "Poland"). When I begin researching them, I would of course look in the Mlawa records first. How much further afield could I reasonably expect to find records for them, if they were not born in Mlawa? Peter's mother was a Myskow. Again - is this a polonization of a German name? Thank-you in advance for your help. Rose-Marie From josie_schmidt at hotmail.com Wed Dec 17 09:45:05 2008 From: josie_schmidt at hotmail.com (josie Schmidt) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:45:05 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] ancestors from Galacia Message-ID: I am researching my relatives and thought if I threw out some names maybe someone would have by chance some of my relatives in their own genealogy that might help me out. Some were from Glacia and other provinces surrounding. Here is a list of some of the people I need more info. The names listed sort of follow child, father, grandfather as I have no brothers or sisters of these listed just the lineage of mother and father. They Ryz and Szczygiel family immigrated to Canada and settled first in Manitoba and then to Saskatchewan around Weyburn which they called the Worcester or Rainton area. I am always to no avail valiantly searching my father's side but cannot get any information any farther than my Grandfather Gottlieb Koehler, born in Simonsfeld Austria. I have had no success as to their true migration but have heard Slavgorod, Slawgorod, Alexanderheim, Bukmud, Heidelberg. Gottlieb Koehler married Rosina Herring (Haering) and had many children of which 4 survived, Friedrich, Katherina, Agate and Margarete. The came to Canada in 1929 from somewhere in Russia and settled in the Claybank, Springvalley region in Saskatchewan. It is a problem that just seems unsolvable. It seems because of oppression they migrated to Heidelberg and Alexanderheim which I believe to be the Barnaul district or Slawgorod, but cannot find concrete proof. I am asking all of you as I am amazed at your expert knowledge in research for help. Are there organisations I should join and which ones. Once you get the genealogy bug it really knaws away at you and I am determined to find the missing pieces. The following names I believe pertain more to your list and they are on my mother's side (Pauline) as Antoni Rysz or Rys and Tecla Szczygiel were her parents. The rest of the names are her descendants. Wish me luck and I welcome any and all information and guidance you can give me. Antoni Rysz or Ryz Joseph Rysz Michael Rysz Tecla or Teckla Szczygiel Auxenti Szczygiel Nicolaus Szczygiel Petri Szczygiel John Szczygiel Tekla Rosenbeiger Michael Rosenbeiger Catherina Trojan Demetri Trojan Nicolas Trojan Anna , Lucae, Andronsyszyn Maria, Josephus Szewczuk Anna Tretiak Anna Karakula Anastasia Popadyny Thanking you in advance Josie Koehler Schmidt _________________________________________________________________ From gstelter at uoguelph.ca Wed Dec 17 09:55:39 2008 From: gstelter at uoguelph.ca (Gilbert A Stelter) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:55:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] getting int family history with a bang Message-ID: <1501392268.16123921229536539413.JavaMail.root@huron.cs.uoguelph.ca> Hi all, and especially Al Muth, Jerry Frank and Sandra Stelter. I belong to several email lists but I have never encountered such an enthusiastic and helpful group as this one. One message from me has elicited a flood of useful information and contacts. I have found a cousin, whose wife, Sandra Stelter, is a real authority on her husband's family background. Al Muth has sent some really interesting primary sources and I'm impressed that he is able to make something out of those 19th century record keeper's scrawls. I've read a number of Jerry Frank's articles and they are some of the best literature available on the subject of German migrations. So thanks to you all for the great beginning. Your information has raised a bunch of new questions and I will be asking for help in the coming weeks and months. Regards, Gil Stelter From roseingram at shaw.ca Wed Dec 17 10:13:32 2008 From: roseingram at shaw.ca (Rose Ingram) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:13:32 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions References: Message-ID: <009e01c96073$2b81eb50$6601a8c0@duocore> Rose-Marie, Have you looked at the original marriage record that may have been microfilmed? There may be more information given on that record as to place of birth, which should give you some clues where to look next. I can't help with the surnames. You may have a Polish line in your family. I have Michalski in my lineage who are/were Polish Catholic. One rebel married a German Lutheran girl in early 1800's and one of his son's did the same. Rose Ingram ----- Original Message ----- From: F&RM Haddad To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:41 AM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions First of all, thank-you to those who responded to the list and to me privately about the "agreement before marriage" question I posed. It does seem as if it could be an "artifact" of the Napoleonic format - legally necessary though likely not culturally relevant. Some questions about Milewski: One is - is this a polonization of a German name, and if so, what is the German name likely to be? I have a pair of ancestors - Peter Sell and Anna Milewski who were married in Mlawa, Poland, Mar. 1854. This information is at about 3rd hand - Peter was 26 and Anna was 23. No place of birth is given for them (except "Poland"). When I begin researching them, I would of course look in the Mlawa records first. How much further afield could I reasonably expect to find records for them, if they were not born in Mlawa? Peter's mother was a Myskow. Again - is this a polonization of a German name? Thank-you in advance for your help. Rose-Marie _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Dec 17 14:05:00 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:05:00 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4949778C.8040302@warnerengineering.com> Rose-Marie, My Polish friend does not recognize any hidden meaning in Milewski, but she says that Mys is Polish for mouse. So the German equivalent name, if there is in fact one, would be Maus, or perhaps Mauser. Gary Warner F&RM Haddad wrote: > First of all, thank-you to those who responded to the list and to me > privately about the "agreement before marriage" question I posed. It does > seem as if it could be an "artifact" of the Napoleonic format - legally > necessary though likely not culturally relevant. > > Some questions about Milewski: > > One is - is this a polonization of a German name, and if so, what is the > German name likely to be? > > I have a pair of ancestors - Peter Sell and Anna Milewski who were married > in Mlawa, Poland, Mar. 1854. This information is at about 3rd hand - Peter > was 26 and Anna was 23. No place of birth is given for them (except > "Poland"). When I begin researching them, I would of course look in the > Mlawa records first. How much further afield could I reasonably expect to > find records for them, if they were not born in Mlawa? > > Peter's mother was a Myskow. Again - is this a polonization of a German > name? > > Thank-you in advance for your help. > > Rose-Marie > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From Spaghettitree at aol.com Wed Dec 17 15:53:58 2008 From: Spaghettitree at aol.com (Spaghettitree@aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:53:58 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski and Myskow Message-ID: I think Gary is correct, Rose-Marie. I think it will help you enormously to learn the Polish (and German) pronunciations, or maybe you have already done so, along with the meanings of each section of these names and any and all spellings as they evolve over time and place. There were no single "correct" spellings until around 100 years ago. Here are some definitions I found: In A Dictionary of German-Jewish Surnames: Milewski - from a location named Milewo in northeastern Poland (with Polish adjectival suffix "ski"), a Polish and German surname. Nothing in there for Myskow. In Polish Surnames: Origins and Meanings: Mil-ancient dithematic names with the root mily, "dear, beloved" - listing of about 35 names beginning with Mil- incuding Milewski. There are some 17,000 plus people in Poland with that surname now. Myskow: Mysz- "mouse", or name element Mys, including Myszko and other names. The German word for mouse is Maus (my Cuxhaven grandmother Johanna called her baby daughter Johanna "Maus" and she grew up to be known to all as Aunt Mousie. My father as a baby she called Hannamaus ("Jo"hanna's little mouse) who grew up to be Henry, thank goodness.) In A Dictionary of Surnames: Maus - German nickname for someone supposedly resembling a mouse, etc. There are several derivatives, including the habitation names in Polish - Myszk(or)owski. No Milewski, but Mil - Czech, affectionate nickname for an attractive person from Czech mily (diacritical over the y), dear, beloved. The "ski" I believe indicates "from the estate or family of" whatever the root is, but a Polish native may certainly correct that, or anything else here. If you haven't already, go to Cindyslist.com - then Poland/Polish names, and also poke around in all the search engines, Google, Yahoo, Ask, Dogpile. Maureen Schoenky ************** One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) From kopetzke at gmx.net Thu Dec 18 10:44:23 2008 From: kopetzke at gmx.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Irene_K=F6nig?=) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:44:23 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net> F&RM Haddad schrieb am 17.12.2008 18:41 Uhr: > > I have a pair of ancestors - Peter Sell and Anna Milewski who were > married in Mlawa, Poland, Mar. 1854. Hi Rose-Marie, I have been going through your other postings but did not see how you are connected to this couple. Have we been in touch before? I am a granddaughter of Emil SELL from Solodyri / Volhynia who was a grandson of Peter SELL and Anna MILEWSKI. As for Milewski being a polonization of a German name (or not), I must confess that I do not care about it. My father's name was KOPETZKY, my grandmother's name was BONKOWSKI, so why wouldn't my gg-grandmother's name be MILEWSKI ;-)? Probably with no German equivalent. Irene Koenig From colnels at telus.net Thu Dec 18 12:09:24 2008 From: colnels at telus.net (Nelson Itterman) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:09:24 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions In-Reply-To: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net> References: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net> Message-ID: <000c01c9614c$86096060$921c2120$@net> Hello Irene: So you came from Solodryi, and that's how you knew Gustav Timm with the long snurbart. Nelson -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Irene K?nig Sent: December-18-08 11:44 AM To: F&RM Haddad Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions F&RM Haddad schrieb am 17.12.2008 18:41 Uhr: > > I have a pair of ancestors - Peter Sell and Anna Milewski who were > married in Mlawa, Poland, Mar. 1854. Hi Rose-Marie, I have been going through your other postings but did not see how you are connected to this couple. Have we been in touch before? I am a granddaughter of Emil SELL from Solodyri / Volhynia who was a grandson of Peter SELL and Anna MILEWSKI. As for Milewski being a polonization of a German name (or not), I must confess that I do not care about it. My father's name was KOPETZKY, my grandmother's name was BONKOWSKI, so why wouldn't my gg-grandmother's name be MILEWSKI ;-)? Probably with no German equivalent. Irene Koenig _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 09/12/2008 9:59 AM From otto at schienke.com Thu Dec 18 12:17:13 2008 From: otto at schienke.com (Otto) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:17:13 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions In-Reply-To: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net> References: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net> Message-ID: <373B8392-25B5-4076-BC3F-61B42AF3B939@schienke.com> Afternoon (my time) Rose-Marie and Irene, Mee'lev'ski - with emphasis on the second syllable. I found no Milewski in the old Lutheran cemetery here in Cleveland but there are two 'Meel' buried here. My first cousin, Otto Albert Roll b. 1908 (x), his mother was Anna Schienke, married a Helen Milewski as a second wife, his first wife had died. All I have on Helen is that she was born in Neffs, Ohio in 1913. Question of her maiden name being a Polish translation of a German name never came up in all of the years I knew her. A surname has biological significance for about 200 years, after that it becomes a clothes hook to hang history on. Names are only 'indicators' of what 'may' have been in the past. So we think. Genetic testing 'may/may not' give some semblance of immediate ethnicity but it ends there. As it steps back in time we fall into a large breeding group. White, Black and Yellow are basic groupings and one does not need testing or names to prove it out. The Nazis found that 25% of the Poles fell within their 'blonde Nordic breed' group parameters and relocated many of them to Germany and 'Germanized' them to seed their dogma. This may have been a larger percentage of qualified specimen than the Nazi administration had among themselves. Comical, No? Poles, as any other national group are of mixed ethnicity. Especially after the "Russian Ethnic Shuffle' that ended 1989. The social wall between ethnic Poles and ethnic Germans is specifically, first, Religious, and second, Political. Otherwise there is little genetic difference. I have no problem at all in using an old family surname alias, 'Stodulski', especially in Poland, 'Stodulski-Schienke', where it opens doors and brings forth smiles. Both are honorable surnames. We are what we become. On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Irene K?nig wrote: > F&RM Haddad schrieb am 17.12.2008 18:41 Uhr: >> >> I have a pair of ancestors - Peter Sell and Anna Milewski who were >> married in Mlawa, Poland, Mar. 1854. > > > Hi Rose-Marie, > > I have been going through your other postings but did not see how you > are connected to this couple. Have we been in touch before? I am a > granddaughter of Emil SELL from Solodyri / Volhynia who was a grandson > of Peter SELL and Anna MILEWSKI. > > As for Milewski being a polonization of a German name (or not), I must > confess that I do not care about it. My father's name was KOPETZKY, my > grandmother's name was BONKOWSKI, so why wouldn't my gg-grandmother's > name be MILEWSKI ;-)? Probably with no German equivalent. > > Irene Koenig . . . Otto " The Zen moment..." wk. of March 23, 2008- ________________________________ "Each of us. . . A bundle of possibilities." From kopetzke at gmx.net Thu Dec 18 13:14:11 2008 From: kopetzke at gmx.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Irene_K=F6nig?=) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:14:11 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions In-Reply-To: <000c01c9614c$86096060$921c2120$@net> References: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net> <000c01c9614c$86096060$921c2120$@net> Message-ID: <494ABD23.6050203@gmx.net> Nelson Itterman schrieb am 18.12.2008 21:09 Uhr: > Hello Irene: > So you came from Solodryi, and that's how you knew Gustav Timm with the long > snurbart. > Nelson Not me, Nelson, but my mother Eugenie Sell was born in Solodyri (1919). She never met Gustav Timm but as a child often heard her grandfather Eduard Sell speaking about him as "Timm mit dem langen Schnurrbart". She recalled seeing a picture of Gustav and said the Sell and the Timm families were "somehow related". So are we? irene From farose at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 18:51:45 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:51:45 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski/Myskow clarification Message-ID: Please, please let me clarify something re: my question on names. My interest is purely "academic". I'm not clever enough to qualify as a nerd, but I do have nerd-like leanings. I'd seen on the website about names and what they are in Polish, and what they are in German. And I'm aware of polonization of German names, and Marcin has pointed out to me that there was also germanization of Polish names. Others have given insight into the reasons for it. And I was/am quite intrigued in a purely academic way - and wondered if there were other versions of these two names in my ancestry. But it really doesn't matter to me whether these ancestors are "ethnic" Poles or Germans. That was not at all behind my question. I'm a Canadian - we pride ourselves on our multi-culturalism. We're a melting pot - or is it mosaic. Or both. And in my case, on my paternal side, my great-grandmother is Swedish. Through her I have in my ancestry (so far, further research may bring up more) Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Germans (from Pommerania), Celts, Anglo-Saxons, French, Swiss, Poles, Russians, Greeks, Spaniards - the list goes on. I'm far from "pure" anything - and my children even less so, for I married a man from the Middle East whose ancestry is Phoenecian (although by how fair he is, I wonder about "Crusader Influence" in his past! ). The Bible says that God has made of one blood all nations under heaven. That's good enough for me. Rose-Marie From GHBoehm at ish.de Fri Dec 19 05:43:00 2008 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:43:00 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski/Myskow clarification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <494BA4E4.2090603@ish.de> F&RM Haddad schrieb: > But it really doesn't matter to me whether these ancestors are "ethnic" > Poles or Germans. That was not at all behind my question. I'm a Canadian - > we pride ourselves on our multi-culturalism. We're a melting pot - or is it > mosaic. Or both. Hello Rosemarie, some 40 km southeast of Mlawa you can find several Milewo villages: Milewo-R?czki, Milewo-Kulki, Milewo Tabu?y, Milewo-Szwejki, Milewo-Wypychi, Milewo-Ruszczyni and Milewo-Malonki. Approximately the same distance to the southwest is another Milewo, another one north of P?o?sk and again others to the east and northeast of Plawa but further afar. If you would ask one of their inhabitants where he was born, he would certainly answer "ja Milewski" [I am from here, I am a Milewian]. According to www.herby.com.pl there are 17534 MILEWSKI in Poland, centered in the regions ot Warszawa, Suwa?ki, ?om?a, Ciechan?w; Gda?sk, Olsztyn, Ostro??ka, Katowice, Wroclaw, Siedlce, P?ock and others. Mlawa is approximately in the midst of P?ock, Olsztyn and Ostro??ka. Ciechan?w is just 25 km to the southeast. Several MILEWSKI were born or are still living in Mlawa: "Dariusz MILEWSKI, ur. w 1974 r. w M?awie", "Jacek MILEWSKI (Single location) - Bednarska 8. - Mlawa", "Dawid MILEWSKI z Gimnazjum nr 1 [in Mlawa]". Briefly speaking: no translated German name. G?nther From GHBoehm at ish.de Fri Dec 19 05:49:33 2008 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:49:33 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski/Myskow clarification In-Reply-To: <494BA4E4.2090603@ish.de> References: <494BA4E4.2090603@ish.de> Message-ID: <494BA66D.6000305@ish.de> G?nther B?hm schrieb: > Several MILEWSKI were born or are still > living in Mlawa: > > "Dariusz MILEWSKI, ur. w 1974 r. w M?awie", > "Jacek MILEWSKI (Single location) - Bednarska 8. - Mlawa", > "Dawid MILEWSKI z Gimnazjum nr 1 [in Mlawa]". > From http://retejoj.worsten.org/milewski/stat_milewski.htm : "M?awa (mazowieckie): M. 68, F. 56," (68 male and 56 female MILEWSKI in M?awa). G?nther From hhowell at lakedalelink.net Fri Dec 19 06:52:38 2008 From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net (hhowell) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:52:38 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed Message-ID: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> Hi Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. Any help is appreciated. Herschuel Howell From textor_jan at hotmail.com Fri Dec 19 07:43:36 2008 From: textor_jan at hotmail.com (Jan Textor) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:43:36 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed In-Reply-To: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> References: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: Herschuel, I read the names as Swiniar and Dobrzychow. I would suggest that these are the same as Swiniary and Dobrzykow. Dobrzykow is located between Plock and Gabin, about 8 km north of the latter town, while Swiniary is located about 11 km southeast of Dobrzykow. According to the SGGEE Pedigree Database there were quite a few members of the Rinas family born in Wionczemin which is located about halfway between Dobrzykow and Swiniary. And one David Rinas was born in Swiniary in 1836. Hope this helps. Jan Textor, Denmark textor.dk/homepage > From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net > To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:52:38 -0600 > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed > > Hi > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. > > Any help is appreciated. > Herschuel Howell > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From GHBoehm at ish.de Fri Dec 19 08:52:54 2008 From: GHBoehm at ish.de (=?UTF-8?B?R8O8bnRoZXIgQsO2aG0=?=) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:52:54 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed - Scoiniar, Russia In-Reply-To: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> References: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <494BD166.10403@ish.de> hhowell schrieb: > Hi > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. > Hello Herschuel, think I found it. 1. In the IGI you can find several RINAS from Wionczemin, Gombin, Warszawskiego, Poland. So I focussed to this region (southeast of P?ock, left bank of Wisla river). 2. some km northwest of Wionczemin [Wi?czemin] you find at the southern outskirts of P?ock the village Dobrzyk?w. 3. just one km southeast of Wi?czemin Polski is Swiniary - adeline's residence! G?nther from Hilden, Germany From forsoftsong at yahoo.com Fri Dec 19 09:23:41 2008 From: forsoftsong at yahoo.com (Joan) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:23:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <254367.56706.qm@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Rose Marie, There is another possibility, as well The name is listed as a Kashubian surname at this link: http://www.pgsa.org/Kashub/kashnam2.php They are a West Slavic group that was exposed to Germanization during Prussia's time. After WWII, those who identified themselves as German, having assimilated into that culture, were expelled to Germany. Those who viewed themselves as Slavic, remained Catholic, cultivated ties to Poland and remained in Poland. Joan Please, please let me clarify something re: my question on names. My interest is purely "academic". I'm not clever enough to qualify as a nerd, but I do have nerd-like leanings. I'd seen on the website about names and what they are in Polish, and what they are in German. And I'm aware of polonization of German names, and Marcin has pointed out to me that there was also germanization of Polish names. Others have given insight into the reasons for it. And I was/am quite intrigued in a purely academic way - and wondered if there were other versions of these two names in my ancestry. But it really doesn't matter to me whether these ancestors are "ethnic" Poles or Germans. That was not at all behind my question. I'm a Canadian - we pride ourselves on our multi-culturalism. We're a melting pot - or is it mosaic. Or both. And in my case, on my paternal side, my great-grandmother is Swedish. Through her I have in my ancestry (so far, further research may bring up more) Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Germans (from Pommerania), Celts, Anglo-Saxons, French, Swiss, Poles, Russians, Greeks, Spaniards - the list goes on. I'm far from "pure" anything - and my children even less so, for I married a man from the Middle East whose ancestry is Phoenecian (although by how fair he is, I wonder about "Crusader Influence" in his past! ). The Bible says that God has made of one blood all nations under heaven. That's good enough for me. Rose-Marie ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:43:00 +0100 From: G?nther B?hm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski/Myskow clarification To: Wolhynien-Liste Message-ID: <494BA4E4.2090603 at ish.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed F&RM Haddad schrieb: > But it really doesn't matter to me whether these ancestors are "ethnic" > Poles or Germans. That was not at all behind my question. I'm a Canadian - > we pride ourselves on our multi-culturalism. We're a melting pot - or is it > mosaic. Or both. Hello Rosemarie, some 40 km southeast of Mlawa you can find several Milewo villages: Milewo-R?czki, Milewo-Kulki, Milewo Tabu?y, Milewo-Szwejki, Milewo-Wypychi, Milewo-Ruszczyni and Milewo-Malonki. Approximately the same distance to the southwest is another Milewo, another one north of P?o?sk and again others to the east and northeast of Plawa but further afar. If you would ask one of their inhabitants where he was born, he would certainly answer "ja Milewski" [I am from here, I am a Milewian]. According to www.herby.com.pl there are 17534 MILEWSKI in Poland, centered in the regions ot Warszawa, Suwa?ki, ?om?a, Ciechan?w; Gda?sk, Olsztyn, Ostro??ka, Katowice, Wroclaw, Siedlce, P?ock and others. Mlawa is approximately in the midst of P?ock, Olsztyn and Ostro??ka. Ciechan?w is just 25 km to the southeast. Several MILEWSKI were born or are still living in Mlawa: "Dariusz MILEWSKI, ur. w 1974 r. w M?awie", "Jacek MILEWSKI (Single location) - Bednarska 8. - Mlawa", "Dawid MILEWSKI z Gimnazjum nr 1 [in Mlawa]". Briefly speaking: no translated German name. G?nther ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:49:33 +0100 From: G?nther B?hm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski/Myskow clarification To: Wolhynien-Liste Message-ID: <494BA66D.6000305 at ish.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed G?nther B?hm schrieb: > Several MILEWSKI were born or are still > living in Mlawa: > > "Dariusz MILEWSKI, ur. w 1974 r. w M?awie", > "Jacek MILEWSKI (Single location) - Bednarska 8. - Mlawa", > "Dawid MILEWSKI z Gimnazjum nr 1 [in Mlawa]". > >From http://retejoj.worsten.org/milewski/stat_milewski.htm : "M?awa (mazowieckie): M. 68, F. 56," (68 male and 56 female MILEWSKI in M?awa). G?nther ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:52:38 -0600 From: "hhowell" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed To: "SGGEE LIST" Message-ID: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45 at HGHOWELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. Any help is appreciated. Herschuel Howell ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:43:36 +0100 From: Jan Textor Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed To: , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Herschuel, I read the names as Swiniar and Dobrzychow. I would suggest that these are the same as Swiniary and Dobrzykow. Dobrzykow is located between Plock and Gabin, about 8 km north of the latter town, while Swiniary is located about 11 km southeast of Dobrzykow. According to the SGGEE Pedigree Database there were quite a few members of the Rinas family born in Wionczemin which is located about halfway between Dobrzykow and Swiniary. And one David Rinas was born in Swiniary in 1836. Hope this helps. Jan Textor, Denmark textor.dk/homepage > From: hhowell at lakedalelink.net > To: Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:52:38 -0600 > Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed > > Hi > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. > > Any help is appreciated. > Herschuel Howell > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:52:54 +0100 From: G?nther B?hm Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed - Scoiniar, Russia To: SGGEE LIST Message-ID: <494BD166.10403 at ish.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed hhowell schrieb: > Hi > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. > Hello Herschuel, think I found it. 1. In the IGI you can find several RINAS from Wionczemin, Gombin, Warszawskiego, Poland. So I focussed to this region (southeast of P?ock, left bank of Wisla river). 2. some km northwest of Wionczemin [Wi?czemin] you find at the southern outskirts of P?ock the village Dobrzyk?w. 3. just one km southeast of Wi?czemin Polski is Swiniary - adeline's residence! G?nther from Hilden, Germany ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Issue 15 *************************************************** From benovich at imt.net Fri Dec 19 10:59:56 2008 From: benovich at imt.net (Richard Benert) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:59:56 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions References: <494A9A07.8030603@gmx.net><000c01c9614c$86096060$921c2120$@net> <494ABD23.6050203@gmx.net> Message-ID: <001301c9620b$fbc62940$0500a8c0@richard01> This mini-discussion about Gustav Timm drove me back to my article on the Volhynian Germans in St. Paul, Minnesota (in a recent SGGEE Journal). In it, I mentioned that Gustav Timm lived for a time (before 1910) in St. Paul. His brother, August, who accompanied my father to St. Paul, remained there his whole life. Where did Gustav go from there? Do you know, Nelson? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene K?nig" To: "Nelson Itterman" Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Milewski - some questions > Nelson Itterman schrieb am 18.12.2008 21:09 Uhr: >> Hello Irene: >> So you came from Solodryi, and that's how you knew Gustav Timm with the >> long >> snurbart. >> Nelson > > > Not me, Nelson, but my mother Eugenie Sell was born in Solodyri (1919). > She never met Gustav Timm but as a child often heard her grandfather > Eduard Sell speaking about him as "Timm mit dem langen Schnurrbart". She > recalled seeing a picture of Gustav and said the Sell and the Timm > families were "somehow related". So are we? > > irene > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1848 - Release Date: 12/14/2008 12:28 PM -------------- next part -------------- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1848 - Release Date: 12/14/2008 12:28 PM From m.nawrocki at orange.pl Sat Dec 20 02:47:47 2008 From: m.nawrocki at orange.pl (Marcin Nawrocki) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:47:47 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kreis Rypin map Message-ID: <5AF619BF-6304-4DC1-B092-595D8A8759F0@orange.pl> Hi everybody I'm looking for the map of Kreis Rypin between 1793 and 1807 and after 1815. If someone has digital version I will be very grateful for help. Best Marcin From lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 20 12:22:19 2008 From: lewisinwaterloo at sympatico.ca (Susie Lewis) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:22:19 +0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1945 Konigsberg, East Prussia Message-ID: I am looking for any one related or connected to any of the following people/families who were located around the area of Konigsberg, East Prussia immediately prior and during World War 2: Plowes of Stolzenberg Gottschling of Tiefensee Roh of Heiligenbeil Niesses near Bomben, Gehau or Zinthen Rudolf Tonn of Bomben, Landesschutz soldier stationed in Insterberg Ursula Dietrich and her mother Mrs.Dietrich from Tilsit -settled in Schleswig Holstein, Germany Renate born about 1940 a refugee girl from Konigsberg who fled East Prussia departing Pilau on board the boat 'Moewe' Feb 1945 then settled in Schleswig Holstein, Northern Germany after being reunited with her mother with help from the Red Cross. These people and my family where closely connected and we could benefit from sharing our stories. From dnmiller at whiz.to Sat Dec 20 13:11:43 2008 From: dnmiller at whiz.to (Don Miller) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:11:43 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Article, The German Baptist Movement in Volhynia Message-ID: <000901c962e7$8eed8cf0$6401a8c0@DonMiller> Since I have done extensive research on the history of Baptists in Volhynia, people frequently write to me asking for information about this group of believers in Russia (now Ukraine). Well, I have just completed a lengthy article on "The German Baptist Movement in Volhynia" and posted it on my website at www.volhyna.org If interested in checking it out and bookmarking it for future reference, go to the site and click on Resources, then Baptists. Its the first in a whole series of articles on Baptists in Volhynia. The article includes a number of photos. Donald N. Miller Tour Escort, Volhynian Village Adventure Tours. From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Sat Dec 20 14:19:30 2008 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:19:30 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed - Rinas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Herschuel, Given the Rinas family you are searching for came from the Plock area, it is likely that the Rinas ancestry leads back to Torun/Thorn where my Rinas ancestors lived in the 1600s. Their migration likely was from there to where they currently are. Good luck in your research. Earl Schultz ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:52:38 -0600 From: "hhowell" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed To: "SGGEE LIST" Message-ID: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45 at HGHOWELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. Any help is appreciated. Herschuel Howell From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Sat Dec 20 15:00:27 2008 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:00:27 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kreis Rypin map In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <958F9B689CB9411AAE15E4E97877F807@Desktop> Hi Marcin, I'm sending you 3 maps of this area that I have. I am not sure of the dates, tho' they are not early maps. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:47:47 +0100 From: Marcin Nawrocki Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kreis Rypin map To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <5AF619BF-6304-4DC1-B092-595D8A8759F0 at orange.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi everybody I'm looking for the map of Kreis Rypin between 1793 and 1807 and after 1815. If someone has digital version I will be very grateful for help. Best Marcin ------------------------------ From dollyhauf at att.net Sun Dec 21 08:44:39 2008 From: dollyhauf at att.net (dollyhauf) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:44:39 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas Message-ID: <005001c9638b$6b117540$4001a8c0@HAUF> Any one of those searching RINAS have a Michael Rinas that ended up in St. Joe Michigan? Dolly From Nks883 at aol.com Sun Dec 21 09:45:16 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:45:16 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas Message-ID: Dolly, Per Social Security Death Records: Michael Rinas born 28Dec1887 died Nov. 1969 - Michigan Michael S. Rinas born 3Nov1923 died 20Sep2005 - Michigan 1930 U.S. Census "Mike" Rinas born Russia abt 1888 working as assembler in auto parts company - Detroit, Michigan Wife Amanda and a stepson Nadine **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) From Nks883 at aol.com Sun Dec 21 10:03:02 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:03:02 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas Message-ID: Dolly, Regard your Michael Rinas, found a Michael RENAS was born 08MAR 1895 and died Feb 1970 - Berrien, Michigan. That would correspond with St. Joseph, Michigan. Nadine **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) From mag_ton at yahoo.com Sun Dec 21 12:28:50 2008 From: mag_ton at yahoo.com (mag_ton) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:28:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] German Baptists Vol 67, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <572909.91483.qm@web36304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Could you resite that web address again for your website? , Don ? Magda ( researching Zeimer (Zimmer) , Abraham in Plock Schrotterburg ) --- On Sun, 12/21/08, ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org wrote: From: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Issue 18 To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 3:00 PM Send Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list submissions to ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://eclipse.sggee.org/mailman/listinfo/ger-poland-volhynia or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org You can reach the person managing the list at ger-poland-volhynia-owner at eclipse.sggee.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ger-Poland-Volhynia digest..." Today's Topics: 1. 1945 Konigsberg, East Prussia (Susie Lewis) 2. Article, The German Baptist Movement in Volhynia (Don Miller) 3. Re: Help needed - Rinas (Earl.Schultz) 4. Re: Kreis Rypin map (Earl.Schultz) 5. Rinas (dollyhauf) 6. Re: Rinas (Nks883 at aol.com) 7. Re: Rinas (Nks883 at aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:22:19 +0000 From: "Susie Lewis" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] 1945 Konigsberg, East Prussia To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am looking for any one related or connected to any of the following people/families who were located around the area of Konigsberg, East Prussia immediately prior and during World War 2: Plowes of Stolzenberg Gottschling of Tiefensee Roh of Heiligenbeil Niesses near Bomben, Gehau or Zinthen Rudolf Tonn of Bomben, Landesschutz soldier stationed in Insterberg Ursula Dietrich and her mother Mrs.Dietrich from Tilsit -settled in Schleswig Holstein, Germany Renate born about 1940 a refugee girl from Konigsberg who fled East Prussia departing Pilau on board the boat 'Moewe' Feb 1945 then settled in Schleswig Holstein, Northern Germany after being reunited with her mother with help from the Red Cross. These people and my family where closely connected and we could benefit from sharing our stories. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:11:43 -0800 From: "Don Miller" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Article, The German Baptist Movement in Volhynia To: "Volhnia Mailing List" Message-ID: <000901c962e7$8eed8cf0$6401a8c0 at DonMiller> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Since I have done extensive research on the history of Baptists in Volhynia, people frequently write to me asking for information about this group of believers in Russia (now Ukraine). Well, I have just completed a lengthy article on "The German Baptist Movement in Volhynia" and posted it on my website at www.volhyna.org If interested in checking it out and bookmarking it for future reference, go to the site and click on Resources, then Baptists. Its the first in a whole series of articles on Baptists in Volhynia. The article includes a number of photos. Donald N. Miller Tour Escort, Volhynian Village Adventure Tours. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:19:30 -0600 From: "Earl.Schultz" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed - Rinas To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Herschuel, Given the Rinas family you are searching for came from the Plock area, it is likely that the Rinas ancestry leads back to Torun/Thorn where my Rinas ancestors lived in the 1600s. Their migration likely was from there to where they currently are. Good luck in your research. Earl Schultz ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:52:38 -0600 From: "hhowell" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed To: "SGGEE LIST" Message-ID: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45 at HGHOWELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. Any help is appreciated. Herschuel Howell ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:00:27 -0600 From: "Earl.Schultz" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kreis Rypin map To: Message-ID: <958F9B689CB9411AAE15E4E97877F807 at Desktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Marcin, I'm sending you 3 maps of this area that I have. I am not sure of the dates, tho' they are not early maps. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:47:47 +0100 From: Marcin Nawrocki Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kreis Rypin map To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <5AF619BF-6304-4DC1-B092-595D8A8759F0 at orange.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi everybody I'm looking for the map of Kreis Rypin between 1793 and 1807 and after 1815. If someone has digital version I will be very grateful for help. Best Marcin ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:44:39 -0600 From: "dollyhauf" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas To: Message-ID: <005001c9638b$6b117540$4001a8c0 at HAUF> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Any one of those searching RINAS have a Michael Rinas that ended up in St. Joe Michigan? Dolly ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:45:16 EST From: Nks883 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas To: dollyhauf at att.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dolly, Per Social Security Death Records: Michael Rinas born 28Dec1887 died Nov. 1969 - Michigan Michael S. Rinas born 3Nov1923 died 20Sep2005 - Michigan 1930 U.S. Census "Mike" Rinas born Russia abt 1888 working as assembler in auto parts company - Detroit, Michigan Wife Amanda and a stepson Nadine **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:03:02 EST From: Nks883 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas To: dollyhauf at att.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dolly, Regard your Michael Rinas, found a Michael RENAS was born 08MAR 1895 and died Feb 1970 - Berrien, Michigan. That would correspond with St. Joseph, Michigan. Nadine **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia mailing list, hosted by the: Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv.html End of Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Issue 18 *************************************************** From dnmiller at whiz.to Sun Dec 21 13:08:46 2008 From: dnmiller at whiz.to (Don Miller) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:08:46 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Correction: The Baptist Movement in Volhynia Message-ID: <002801c963b0$52c584c0$6401a8c0@DonMiller> The correct URL address for my article on The Baptist Movement in Volhynia" is www.volhynia.org. Sorry. Don Miller From lmpauling at utech.net Mon Dec 22 09:36:13 2008 From: lmpauling at utech.net (Linda Marks Pauling) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:36:13 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] familysearch of the Leide family-Mennonites from Netherlands References: <000a01c9643a$50f9d1c0$b2d5d151@leide> Message-ID: <01c001c9645b$cb6ed650$fb799643@LINDASTOY> Dear Norbert, First of all your English is wonderful! I would not be able to write in German, so I am happy that you are able to write in English. I must say I am no expert in family history, but I am very interested in the area of Rypin, Lipno, and Sierpc and I am searching just as you are. So you have heard about our wonderful trip to Poland last summer. This was our 4th trip, but it was the first time that we worked a day in the Archives with Gerhard Jabs and Earl Schultz. Otherwise we were visiting the little remnant of our family which we found in 1988 still living in Blizno by Sierpc. I think you have done more reserach in the Archives than I! I am glad to see that you joined SGGEE. I cannot help you with the idea of the history of the Mennonites, but I see you have copied this request also to the sggee list and there are many knowledgable people on this list. I hope one of them will help you with this question. I will write to you off-list about the Leide connections that I have in my data base. Linda Pauling ----- Original Message ----- From: Werkzeuch.de To: lmpauling at utech.net Cc: ger-poland-volhynia-request at eclipse.sggee.org Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: familysearch of the Leide family Dear Linda, I read your name very often in the last year. For instance in Rypin Poland guestbook, I did follow the story of your trip over there by an cousine of Earl Schultz (Joan), heard your name from Mister Jarbs from Ahrensburg Germany and Gerhard Bartz also from here and when I became my membership in sggee and Dobriner Land mailing list. So I belive you are a great specialist of family history in Rypin and Lipno district. I?m searching for a cupple of years in my familyhistory but now I arrive a point where I?m standing still. I analyzed arichives like EZAB Berlin ,LDS films, different databases in the web, had many contacts with time witness and so on. Last time I heard that mennonites from Groningen (Nederlands) came to Poland around Thorn in 16century. The assimilated in German peoples. Could you belive the same ? Then I found my family name in an genealogy site by this town and in Noordwijkerhout behind the City of Leiden and I assumed my name came probably from this city. Do you have any ideas what I can do again? Sorry for my terrible english. Regards Norbert Leide from Germany From mschmie at prodigy.net Mon Dec 22 19:18:50 2008 From: mschmie at prodigy.net (MSchmied) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:18:50 +0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Issue 18 DollyHauf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <122320080318.24447.49505899000A701800005F7F22230647029B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net> TO: Dollyhauf RE: Rinas in St. Joseph, MI I live in St Joseph....If you'd like to me try a locate an obit in the local paper, I will be happy to try. Let me know and give me some approx. dates. There are some records for a Michael Renas/Rinas listed in this database: Michiana Genealogical Index We have added a brand new resource for Michiana Researchers! This searchable database contains over 900,000 entries of Birth, Cemetery, Death, Divorce, Marriage and Marriage Licenses Courtesy of Norbert P. Cramer Go to the Michiana Genealogical Index! http://www.sbags.org/michgenidx.htm If you find something there, you would like me to look up locally, I'd be happy to try. It would be after the 1st of the year at the earliest. Marge in St. Joseph, MI > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:44:39 -0600 > From: "dollyhauf" > > Any one of those searching RINAS have a Michael Rinas that ended up in St. Joe > Michigan? > Dolly > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:45:16 EST > From: Nks883 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas > To: dollyhauf at att.net, Ger-Poland-Volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Dolly, > > Per Social Security Death Records: > Michael Rinas born 28Dec1887 died Nov. 1969 - Michigan > > Michael S. Rinas born 3Nov1923 died 20Sep2005 - Michigan > > 1930 U.S. Census > "Mike" Rinas born Russia abt 1888 working as assembler in auto parts company > - Detroit, Michigan > Wife Amanda and a stepson > > Nadine From ladez41 at comcast.net Wed Dec 24 05:45:01 2008 From: ladez41 at comcast.net (Leslie) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:45:01 -0500 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] [Rinas References: <122320080318.24447.49505899000A701800005F7F22230647029B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net> Message-ID: <007701c965cd$d1cfd710$985b744c@D9128M51> Looking for Anna Rinas in Poland/Russia , b abt 1836 married Frederich Zielke. Friederich's brothers, Heinrich and Martin, dates unknown, parents unknown for both individuals./ Any help is appreciated. Happy Holidays to all Leslie From mikolicsm at westnet.com.au Wed Dec 24 06:06:40 2008 From: mikolicsm at westnet.com.au (Maria Mikolics) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:06:40 +0900 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] =?iso-8859-1?q?Alexandrowka_-_Alwine_M=FCll?= =?iso-8859-1?q?er_b1875?= Message-ID: <002401c965d0$d7c7faa0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> I've just received a copy of the death record for my great grandmother Alwine M?LLER, which indicates she was born in 1875 in Alexandrowka, Wolhynien. As far as I can tell there was a town of this name in at least a couple of districts - Dubno & Rowno. I'd be interested in tips from anyone on where I'd start to try and find my great grandmother's birth record. As far as I can tell there aren't any LDS films that would cover 1875. Is there anyone else researching their family in this town? Maria Mikolics Western Australia RESEARCHING: HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, T?pszentmikl?s, Kecskem?t, Nagykor?s, Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l-T?th, Karner, Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, Krucse, Marsa, G?l, Major, Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, Illowo) - Zemke, Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller UKRAINE (Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Dec 24 08:14:33 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:14:33 -0800 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BGer-Poland-Volhynia=5D_Alexandrowka_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?-_Alwine_M=FCller_b1875?= In-Reply-To: <002401c965d0$d7c7faa0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> References: <002401c965d0$d7c7faa0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> Message-ID: <49525FE9.1070908@warnerengineering.com> Maria, This record should appear on the St. Petersburg records at http://www.sggee.org/StPeteBirth, but I do not see it. Who was the father, and what was the mother's given and maiden names? Gary Warner Maria Mikolics wrote: > I've just received a copy of the death record for my great grandmother Alwine M?LLER, which indicates she was born in 1875 in Alexandrowka, Wolhynien. > > As far as I can tell there was a town of this name in at least a couple of districts - Dubno & Rowno. I'd be interested in tips from anyone on where I'd start to try and find my great grandmother's birth record. As far as I can tell there aren't any LDS films that would cover 1875. > > Is there anyone else researching their family in this town? > > > Maria Mikolics > Western Australia > > RESEARCHING: > HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, T?pszentmikl?s, Kecskem?t, Nagykor?s, Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l-T?th, Karner, Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, Krucse, Marsa, G?l, Major, Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th > GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, Illowo) - Zemke, Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller > UKRAINE (Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > From milesertman at shaw.ca Wed Dec 24 08:22:21 2008 From: milesertman at shaw.ca (Miles Ertman) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:22:21 -0700 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Ger-Poland-Volhynia]_Alexandrowka_-_Alwine_M?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=FCller_b1875?= In-Reply-To: <49525FE9.1070908@warnerengineering.com> References: <002401c965d0$d7c7faa0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> <49525FE9.1070908@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: There is an Alwine Mueller born 29 Mar, 1885 in Sergejewka to Karl Mueller and Christine Fenske in the St. Petersburg records. On 24-Dec-08, at 9:14 AM, Gary Warner wrote: > Maria, > > This record should appear on the St. Petersburg records at > http://www.sggee.org/StPeteBirth, but I do not see it. Who was the > father, and what was the mother's given and maiden names? > > Gary Warner > > > > Maria Mikolics wrote: >> I've just received a copy of the death record for my great >> grandmother Alwine M?LLER, which indicates she was born in 1875 in >> Alexandrowka, Wolhynien. >> >> As far as I can tell there was a town of this name in at least a >> couple of districts - Dubno & Rowno. I'd be interested in tips >> from anyone on where I'd start to try and find my great >> grandmother's birth record. As far as I can tell there aren't any >> LDS films that would cover 1875. >> >> Is there anyone else researching their family in this town? >> >> >> Maria Mikolics >> Western Australia >> >> RESEARCHING: >> HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, T?pszentmikl?s, Kecskem?t, >> Nagykor?s, Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l-T?th, Karner, >> Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, Krucse, Marsa, G?l, Major, >> Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th >> GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, Illowo) - Zemke, >> Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller >> UKRAINE (Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From daveobee at shaw.ca Wed Dec 24 08:36:52 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:36:52 -0800 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BGer-Poland-Volhynia=5D_Alexandrowka_-_A?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?lwine_M=FCller_b1875?= In-Reply-To: <49525FE9.1070908@warnerengineering.com> References: <002401c965d0$d7c7faa0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> <49525FE9.1070908@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: There were a couple of places named Alexandrowka in the Zhitomir area as well. And if you want to be technical about it, there were roughly 800 of them in the entire Russian empire; it is probably the most common village name. Something to do with a tsar. Be warned that the St. Pete records cover only Lutherans. The Baptists, the Catholics, the Mennonites and so on did not need to bother with Lutheran paperwork. In other words, the family's religion is key. Dave Obee ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Warner Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 8:16 Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Alexandrowka - Alwine M?ller b1875 To: Maria Mikolics Cc: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Maria, > > This record should appear on the St. Petersburg records at > http://www.sggee.org/StPeteBirth, but I do not see > it.?? Who was the > father, and what was the mother's given and maiden names? > > Gary Warner > > > > Maria Mikolics wrote: > > I've just received a copy of the death record for my great > grandmother Alwine M?LLER, which indicates she was born in 1875 > in Alexandrowka, Wolhynien. > > > > As far as I can tell there was a town of this name in at least > a couple of districts - Dubno & Rowno. I'd be interested in tips > from anyone on where I'd start to try and find my great > grandmother's birth record. As far as I can tell there aren't > any LDS films that would cover 1875. > > > > Is there anyone else researching their family in this town? > > > > > > Maria Mikolics > > Western Australia > > > > RESEARCHING: > > HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, T?pszentmikl?s, > Kecskem?t, Nagykor?s, Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l- > T?th, Karner, Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, Krucse, Marsa, > G?l, Major, Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th > > GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, Illowo) - Zemke, > Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller > > UKRAINE (Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > >?? > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From gary at warnerengineering.com Wed Dec 24 08:49:51 2008 From: gary at warnerengineering.com (Gary Warner) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:49:51 -0800 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BGer-Poland-Volhynia=5D_Alexandrowka_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?-_Alwine_M=FCller_b1875?= In-Reply-To: References: <002401c965d0$d7c7faa0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> <49525FE9.1070908@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <4952682F.30408@warnerengineering.com> To all, Yes, there are actually 4 Alwine Mueller and one Malwine Mueller born in Volhynia between 1871 and 1885 (at least that is all that I can find). We need Maria to give us the names of the parents. Gary Miles Ertman wrote: > There is an Alwine Mueller born 29 Mar, 1885 in Sergejewka to Karl > Mueller and Christine Fenske in the St. Petersburg records. > > > > On 24-Dec-08, at 9:14 AM, Gary Warner wrote: > >> Maria, >> >> This record should appear on the St. Petersburg records at >> http://www.sggee.org/StPeteBirth, but I do not see it. Who was the >> father, and what was the mother's given and maiden names? >> >> Gary Warner >> >> >> >> Maria Mikolics wrote: >>> I've just received a copy of the death record for my great >>> grandmother Alwine M?LLER, which indicates she was born in 1875 in >>> Alexandrowka, Wolhynien. >>> >>> As far as I can tell there was a town of this name in at least a >>> couple of districts - Dubno & Rowno. I'd be interested in tips from >>> anyone on where I'd start to try and find my great grandmother's >>> birth record. As far as I can tell there aren't any LDS films that >>> would cover 1875. >>> >>> Is there anyone else researching their family in this town? >>> >>> >>> Maria Mikolics >>> Western Australia >>> >>> RESEARCHING: >>> HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, T?pszentmikl?s, Kecskem?t, >>> Nagykor?s, Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l-T?th, Karner, >>> Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, Krucse, Marsa, G?l, Major, >>> Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th >>> GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, Illowo) - Zemke, >>> Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller >>> UKRAINE (Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >>> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >>> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by >> Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org >> Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > From mikolicsm at westnet.com.au Thu Dec 25 02:04:26 2008 From: mikolicsm at westnet.com.au (Maria Mikolics) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 19:04:26 +0900 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] =?iso-8859-1?q?_Alexandrowka_-_Alwine_M=FCl?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ler_b1875?= Message-ID: <002701c96678$2c7280a0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> Christmas Greetings to you all from warm & sunny Western Australia! Thanks so much to everyone who replied so quickly to my post. Unfortunately I have no confirmed information regarding my great grandmother's parents. I did receive some information from a researcher that indicated her parents were Johann Johann & Caroline Miller as per census record Horoshki volost, Zhitomir Uezd 1897. However, I'm now not so certain of this information as Alwine's age at census would mean that she was born c1883 (assuming the information provided re age was correct) - which is very different to the year given in her death record. According to her death record my great grandmother's full name was Alwine Eleonore M?ller and she was born 5 December 1875. At this stage I'm thinking I need to see if I can find a record for an Alwine M?ller born on this date and take it from there. Also mentioned on her death record is that she was evangelisch. Maria Mikolics Western Australia RESEARCHING: HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, T?pszentmikl?s, Kecskem?t, Nagykor?s, Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l-T?th, Karner, Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, Krucse, Marsa, G?l, Major, Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, Illowo) - Zemke, Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller UKRAINE (Alexandrowka, Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Thu Dec 25 06:53:32 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:53:32 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Alexandrowka - Alwine =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=FCl?= ler b1875 In-Reply-To: <002701c96678$2c7280a0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> References: <002701c96678$2c7280a0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> Message-ID: <7auabm$1u1ddg@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Maria, Greetings and Merry Christmas from not so warm Calgary, Alberta. Unfortunately we cannot make your Christmas any merrier with good genealogical news. The available evangelisch (= Lutheran) records for 1835-1885 have been fully extracted and are searchable at http://www.sggee.org/databases.html . The originals can also be viewed online at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#p=0 (click Asia, then Russian Duplicate Church Books, then Volyn). There is no match for either the date you mentioned nor the parents found by your researcher. I looked for Mueller, Muller and Miller without luck. I even looked through all the dates to see if I could find a close match for a Dec. 5, 1875 birth under a different name but came up blank. Also couldn't find an Alwine born to a Johann or Caroline. You should look at those original church books in case the extraction was missed. You may also want to look at the Kiev records located there. They have not yet been extracted and there is overlap between Kiev and Volhynia. There can be several reasons for the bad luck associated with not finding the record. Most of these records were originally written down by a Kantor in the village and then transcribed into the main church book by the pastor. It is known from notes written by the pastor that some Kantor books were not kept very well. This and other possible reasons for the entry being missed are some possibilities. Another is that the death record contains inaccurate info. My grandfather's death record here in Canada states his mother was Rosalia Solomka. In fact, his mother was Christine Steinwand and he was born in Solomka. So, it is possible that your grandmother was not born in Volhynia at all but perhaps somewhere else before the family migrated there. Can you track down the names of other siblings that may have been born in Volhynia? This may at least help us to locate the right family grouping. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 03:04 AM 25/12/2008, Maria Mikolics wrote: >Christmas Greetings to you all from warm & sunny Western Australia! > >Thanks so much to everyone who replied so quickly to my post. > >Unfortunately I have no confirmed information >regarding my great grandmother's parents. I did >receive some information from a researcher that >indicated her parents were Johann Johann & >Caroline Miller as per census record Horoshki >volost, Zhitomir Uezd 1897. However, I'm now not >so certain of this information as Alwine's age >at census would mean that she was born c1883 >(assuming the information provided re age was >correct) - which is very different to the year given in her death record. > >According to her death record my great >grandmother's full name was Alwine Eleonore >M?ller and she was born 5 December 1875. At this >stage I'm thinking I need to see if I can find a >record for an Alwine M?ller born on this date >and take it from there. Also mentioned on her >death record is that she was evangelisch. > > >Maria Mikolics >Western Australia > >RESEARCHING: >HUNGARY (Csatka, Borzav?r, Bakonyb?nk, >T?pszentmikl?s, Kecskem?t, Nagykor?s, >Kerekegyh?za, Kocs?r) - Mikolics, Ny?l-T?th, >Karner, Major, Csonka, Nagy, Jakab, Borbe, >Krucse, Marsa, G?l, Major, Flori?n, Koczek, Horv?th >GERMANY/PRUSSIA (Bublitz, Drawehn, Grumsdorf, >Illowo) - Zemke, Stremel, Bork, Miller/M?ller >UKRAINE (Alexandrowka, Cheremoshne) - Miller/M?ller, Stremel > From gpvjem at sasktel.net Thu Dec 25 08:07:57 2008 From: gpvjem at sasktel.net (gpvjem) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:07:57 -0600 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BGer-Poland-Volhynia=5D__Alexandrowka_-_AlwineM=FCl_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ler_b1875?= References: <002701c96678$2c7280a0$0202a8c0@owner50d0561c2> <7auabm$1u1ddg@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <2BFB46B2E3F0403B8E4E9256A68D2675@Marsh> Season's greetings Maria; Further to Jerry's information; Kiev St Petersburg records have recently been extracted and are now in the process of being proof read. I have checked the original extractions and found nothing regarding Alwina Eleonore Mueller. However, Jerry's comment that Kiev records do have a certain degree of overlap with the Volhynian families should always be borne in mind when doing a search for hard to find ancestral records in Ukraine........just in case! John Marsch In also cold and snowy Saskatchewan ----------------------------------------------------------------- Maria, Greetings and Merry Christmas from not so warm Calgary, Alberta. Unfortunately we cannot make your Christmas any merrier with good genealogical news. The available evangelisch (= Lutheran) records for 1835-1885 have been fully extracted and are searchable at http://www.sggee.org/databases.html . The originals can also be viewed online at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#p=0 (click Asia, then Russian Duplicate Church Books, then Volyn). There is no match for either the date you mentioned nor the parents found by your researcher. I looked for Mueller, Muller and Miller without luck. I even looked through all the dates to see if I could find a close match for a Dec. 5, 1875 birth under a different name but came up blank. Also couldn't find an Alwine born to a Johann or Caroline. You should look at those original church books in case the extraction was missed. You may also want to look at the Kiev records located there. They have not yet been extracted and there is overlap between Kiev and Volhynia. There can be several reasons for the bad luck associated with not finding the record. Most of these records were originally written down by a Kantor in the village and then transcribed into the main church book by the pastor. It is known from notes written by the pastor that some Kantor books were not kept very well. This and other possible reasons for the entry being missed are some possibilities. Another is that the death record contains inaccurate info. My grandfather's death record here in Canada states his mother was Rosalia Solomka. In fact, his mother was Christine Steinwand and he was born in Solomka. So, it is possible that your grandmother was not born in Volhynia at all but perhaps somewhere else before the family migrated there. Can you track down the names of other siblings that may have been born in Volhynia? This may at least help us to locate the right family grouping. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 03:04 AM 25/12/2008, Maria Mikolics wrote: >Christmas Greetings to you all from warm & sunny Western Australia! > >Thanks so much to everyone who replied so quickly to my post. > >Unfortunately I have no confirmed information >regarding my great grandmother's parents. I did >receive some information from a researcher that >indicated her parents were Johann Johann & >Caroline Miller as per census record Horoshki >volost, Zhitomir Uezd 1897. However, I'm now not >so certain of this information as Alwine's age >at census would mean that she was born c1883 >(assuming the information provided re age was >correct) - which is very different to the year given in her death record. > >According to her death record my great >grandmother's full name was Alwine Eleonore >M?ller and she was born 5 December 1875. At this >stage I'm thinking I need to see if I can find a >record for an Alwine M?ller born on this date >and take it from there. Also mentioned on her >death record is that she was evangelisch. > > >Maria Mikolics >Western Australia > From worth_a at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 08:10:05 2008 From: worth_a at yahoo.com (Worth Anderson) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:10:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <846494.51546.qm@web110416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jerry is right that the Napoleonic format required a statement of whether there was a pre-nuptial agreement (and it bears noting that in France and colonial Canada such agreements seem not to have been uncommon). I have never seen a record for German Lutheran peasants living in agricultural "holendry" villages that said there was such an agreement, but they did occur where there was significant property, such as marriages between Polish nobles or wealthy ethnic German bourgeoisie living in towns. If one ever does run across a record indicating there was a pre-marital agreement, it could be located in the notary records located in the relevant Polish regional archives. Worth P.S. This is another indicator of why it is good to read the entire marriage record. If the record lists banns as having been read in two different places, it means either the bride or groom was from a different parish, and the summary of who signed (or was incapable of signing) often identifies family relationships to the witnesses that are not stated elsewhere in the document. --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Jerry Frank wrote: > From: Jerry Frank > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records > To: Dhwunsch at aol.com > Cc: farose at gmail.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 12:52 PM > I agree that it has to do with a written contract but, since > divorce in those years was very uncommon, I think it has > more to do with practices of dowry that existed in certain > locations and cultures.? It may have had little implication > to the traditions and practices of German Lutherans but the > phrase had to be included per the standard Napoleonic > format.? > > Not saying they don't exist but I have never seen a > record where it states that such a contract did exist.? For > that reason I suspect that such contracts were officially > discouraged.? > > Jerry > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dhwunsch at aol.com > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:36 am > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Polish Marriage Records > To: farose at gmail.com, ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > > > I think it means they did not have a pre-nuptial > like? > > what's mine is mine > > and your is yours if they divorce just like it is? > today. > > Diane > > ? > > ? > > In a message dated 12/16/2008 10:54:53 A.M. Central > Standard > > Time,? > > farose at gmail.com writes: > > > > I've? come across an interesting > "comment" in Polish > > marriage records, and > > I'm? wondering what it means. It says that the > couple "did > > not make? any > > pre-marital agreement between them". > > > > I'm wondering if that is a? euphemism for > "not having > > carnal knowledge", to > > use another euphemism. And? if it was, what about > women who > > were obviously > > pregnant when they married?? I'm told that it > didn't appear > > to be an issue, > > as long as they married? before the child was born. > > > > Of course, it could mean something entirely? > different. > > Anyone? know? > > > > Rose-Marie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia? Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe? > > http://www.sggee.orgMailing list info at? > > http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your > friends, > > email, and > > favorite sites in one place.? Try it now. > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- > > > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe > http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From krushelh at telus.net Thu Dec 25 11:26:10 2008 From: krushelh at telus.net (Howard Krushel) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:26:10 -0700 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BGer-Poland-Volhynia=5D__Alexandrowka_-_AlwineM=FCl_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ler_b1875?= In-Reply-To: <2BFB46B2E3F0403B8E4E9256A68D2675@Marsh> Message-ID: <8CDEB05C8F4C4166A12394C867A6E33B@D24VBP91> Maria: In checking the 1875 St. Petersburg Consistory birth records it is evident that the last half of the 1875 Zhitomir parish births are missing; in following the Pastors travels for 1875, the records show that he begins his travels through the villages in about March, and continues on through April, May, and June but stops on July 5th. This may explain why your birth record does not show up in the St. Petersburg birth records. Howard Krushel At 03:04 AM 25/12/2008, Maria Mikolics wrote: >Christmas Greetings to you all from warm & sunny Western Australia! > >Thanks so much to everyone who replied so quickly to my post. > >Unfortunately I have no confirmed information >regarding my great grandmother's parents. I did >receive some information from a researcher that >indicated her parents were Johann Johann & >Caroline Miller as per census record Horoshki >volost, Zhitomir Uezd 1897. However, I'm now not >so certain of this information as Alwine's age >at census would mean that she was born c1883 >(assuming the information provided re age was >correct) - which is very different to the year given in her death record. > >According to her death record my great >grandmother's full name was Alwine Eleonore >M?ller and she was born 5 December 1875. At this >stage I'm thinking I need to see if I can find a >record for an Alwine M?ller born on this date >and take it from there. Also mentioned on her >death record is that she was evangelisch. > > >Maria Mikolics >Western Australia > _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Thu Dec 25 10:44:05 2008 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:44:05 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas in St. Joseph, MI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <141D87BBEA574154BEB68FDC337C327D@Desktop> Marge, thank you for bringing that website to my attention. I was surprised to find my family (Leichnitz and Kleps, two very rare names) in their database, collected apparently about 1991, but with no mention of the source or credit given. These families have no connection to Michigan or Michiana so I am wondering how the information was collected. I don't mind but to make the information useful, the source should be provided. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:18:50 +0000 From: "MSchmied" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Ger-Poland-Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Issue 18 DollyHauf To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <122320080318.24447.49505899000A701800005F7F22230647029B0A02D29709070B019D9F BF0A0703080C9C03 at att.net> Content-Type: text/plain TO: Dollyhauf RE: Rinas in St. Joseph, MI I live in St Joseph....If you'd like to me try a locate an obit in the local paper, I will be happy to try. Let me know and give me some approx. dates. There are some records for a Michael Renas/Rinas listed in this database: Michiana Genealogical Index We have added a brand new resource for Michiana Researchers! This searchable database contains over 900,000 entries of Birth, Cemetery, Death, Divorce, Marriage and Marriage Licenses Courtesy of Norbert P. Cramer Go to the Michiana Genealogical Index! http://www.sbags.org/michgenidx.htm If you find something there, you would like me to look up locally, I'd be happy to try. It would be after the 1st of the year at the earliest. Marge in St. Joseph, MI From my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 15:58:48 2008 From: my.mailbox.acm at googlemail.com (Christoph) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 00:58:48 +0100 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] BLUM family from Adamsverdruss / Poland Message-ID: <316ef540812261558u3c26676eo4a211014f8c86641@mail.gmail.com> Hello everybody I am looking for further information about AUGUST BLUM. He had a daughter called Marie BLUM * Oct 1880 in Adamsverdruss / Poland It is village approx. 50 miles south of Koenigsberg/ Kaliningrad Thks for your help and a " Happy new Year " Christoph From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Sat Dec 27 10:53:01 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:53:01 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] BLUM family from Adamsverdruss / Poland In-Reply-To: <316ef540812261558u3c26676eo4a211014f8c86641@mail.gmail.com> References: <316ef540812261558u3c26676eo4a211014f8c86641@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c96854$59891f30$0c9b5d90$@net> -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 5:59 PM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] BLUM family from Adamsverdruss / Poland Hello everybody I am looking for further information about AUGUST BLUM. He had a daughter called Marie BLUM * Oct 1880 in Adamsverdruss / Poland It is village approx. 50 miles south of Koenigsberg/ Kaliningrad Thks for your help and a " Happy new Year " Christoph ============================================================================ ======== Adamsverdruss is now Szklarnia, Poland. You might check out this site. http://www.historische-masurische-vereinigung.de/geagno.html Good luck. Joe in Texas From seipert at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 14:59:29 2008 From: seipert at gmail.com (Sue Eipert) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:59:29 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed In-Reply-To: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> References: <001001c961ec$d477b1c0$35c32e45@HGHOWELL> Message-ID: <495804D1.6080604@gmail.com> Hello, I am very interested to hear that your immigrant Adaline Rinas immigrated to join a Kopp (Adolf) in Chicago (South Chicago). My grandparents (Anna Kopp and Johann Radtke) each immigrated separately to this area, were married there in 1905, had some sons (including my father) and lived there until 1911. The neighborhoods in the southeastern corner of Chicago my grandparents lived in are called South Chicago and Eastside. My grandmother immigrated to South Chicago in 1902 to join her brother Frederick (Fritz) Kopp. Their brother Gustav joined them in 1906. They came from Zakrzewek, in the parish of Chodecz in central Poland. I know of a few other Germans who immigrated from Poland to this part of Chicago. The names include: Kopp, Radtke, Lau, Sommerfeld, Lutke. Bleich, Roman, Reichenbach, Damer. I've always been interested in learning the circumstances that caused them to move here. The ones I know about were mostly single men or women, or traveled here without their families, and they worked in the steel mills, boarding houses, or breweries in the area. Do you know anything more about Adolf Kopp, or Daniel Kopp, who is listed in the Ellis Island record as Adaline's closest relative (uncle)? There is a lot of information about the area at http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/sesidewlcme.html Here's an interesting sidenote about the church where my grandparents were married: Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church (at 91st and Burley/Superior). In 1946 it was purchased by a baptist congregation, and was the location of a famous gospel music scene from the original Blues Brothers movie. (http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/setourp17.htm) Susan Radtke Eipert seipert2 at gmail.com hhowell wrote: > Hi > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably sure the two villages are near each other. > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family story is that she was an orphan. > > Any help is appreciated. > Herschuel Howell > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From seipert at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 17:40:57 2008 From: seipert at gmail.com (Sue Eipert) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:40:57 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed In-Reply-To: <881591.13380.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <881591.13380.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49582AA9.7060107@gmail.com> Hi Cathy, Thanks, Cathy, but actually, it was Anna Kopp (not my Radtke ancestors) that came from the Chodecz area, and Chodecz is in Central Poland, south of Wloclawek, not in Posen. Thanks anyway! Sue Cathy Walters wrote: > Hi Sue, I'll just make a coment but lisson to the other too. I belive > Chodecz is Kolmar that used to be in Posen,Germany Radtke is a very > comon name from there,where I live in Elgin,MN this family was from > Kolmar-(Radtke)but none of their family is into genealogy-I had happened > to worked on Trinity Ev.Luth.Church Centennial book back in 1994& in > Jankendorf church records,LDS looking for my family.Cathy > > */Sue Eipert /* wrote: > > Hello, > > I am very interested to hear that your immigrant Adaline Rinas > immigrated to join a Kopp (Adolf) in Chicago (South Chicago). My > grandparents (Anna Kopp and Johann Radtke) each immigrated > separately to > this area, were married there in 1905, had some sons (including my > father) and lived there until 1911. The neighborhoods in the > southeastern corner of Chicago my grandparents lived in are called > South > Chicago and Eastside. > > My grandmother immigrated to South Chicago in 1902 to join her brother > Frederick (Fritz) Kopp. Their brother Gustav joined them in 1906. They > came from Zakrzewek, in the parish of Chodecz in central Poland. I know > of a few other Germans who immigrated from Poland to this part of > Chicago. The names include: Kopp, Radtke, Lau, Sommerfeld, Lutke. > Bleich, Roman, Reichenbach, Damer. I've always been interested in > learning the circumstances that caused them to move here. The ones I > know about were mostly single men or women, or traveled here without > their families, and they worked in the steel mills, boarding houses, or > breweries in the area. > > Do you know anything more about Adolf Kopp, or Daniel Kopp, who is > listed in the Ellis Island record as Adaline's closest relative (uncle)? > > There is a lot of information about the area at > http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/sesidewlcme.html > > Here's an interesting sidenote about the church where my grandparents > were married: Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church (at 91st and > Burley/Superior). In 1946 it was purchased by a baptist congregation, > and was the location of a famous gospel music scene from the original > Blues Brothers movie. (http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/setourp17.htm) > > Susan Radtke Eipert > seipert2 at gmail.com > > > > hhowell wrote: > > Hi > > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been > trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. > The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. > I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably > sure the two villages are near each other. > > > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to > Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family > story is that she was an orphan. > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > Herschuel Howell > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > > > > > * ALWAYS A ROSE * > From seipert at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 17:40:54 2008 From: seipert at gmail.com (Sue Eipert) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:40:54 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed In-Reply-To: <9595FA8999FB476089EB082154C35CD8@D24VBP91> References: <9595FA8999FB476089EB082154C35CD8@D24VBP91> Message-ID: <49582AA6.8040305@gmail.com> Hello Howard, I haven't seen the church records --I just have copy of my grandparents' marriage certificate. I also have a transcription of their marriage record that was made in 1947 by the then-pastor of Zion Ev. (This document still had the same address; I guess the church building hadn't yet been sold). Here is more information about the current church. There is an address to contact about records. I haven't really pursued it. http://archive.elca.org/archives/chicagochurches/zionohio.html Please let me know if you learn anything Susan Radtke Eipert seipert2@ Howard Krushel wrote: > Hello Sue: > Oral history has it that my great Aunt Karoline Topnick/Topnik(born > 1870)immigrated in about 1889 from an estate in West Prussia near Loebau, > and was supposed to have married and moved to Chicago.... was supposed to > have married a Rakowski or Raschkowsky(not sure of the spelling); and I have > been looking for her now for about 20 years; do you suppose the Zion > Evangelical church might have her marriage record? (Bit like looking for > that proverbial needle in the haystack); would the church records be held in > an Archive? Karoline was German, probably Masurien German, that is German > but originally of Polish extraction; they attended a Lutheran church in West > Prussia. > Thanks for your help, > Howard Krushel, Calgary, Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org > [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Sue > Eipert > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:59 PM > To: hhowell > Cc: SGGEE LIST > Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed > > > Hello, > > I am very interested to hear that your immigrant Adaline Rinas > immigrated to join a Kopp (Adolf) in Chicago (South Chicago). My > grandparents (Anna Kopp and Johann Radtke) each immigrated separately to > this area, were married there in 1905, had some sons (including my > father) and lived there until 1911. The neighborhoods in the > southeastern corner of Chicago my grandparents lived in are called South > Chicago and Eastside. > > My grandmother immigrated to South Chicago in 1902 to join her brother > Frederick (Fritz) Kopp. Their brother Gustav joined them in 1906. They > came from Zakrzewek, in the parish of Chodecz in central Poland. I know > of a few other Germans who immigrated from Poland to this part of > Chicago. The names include: Kopp, Radtke, Lau, Sommerfeld, Lutke. > Bleich, Roman, Reichenbach, Damer. I've always been interested in > learning the circumstances that caused them to move here. The ones I > know about were mostly single men or women, or traveled here without > their families, and they worked in the steel mills, boarding houses, or > breweries in the area. > > Do you know anything more about Adolf Kopp, or Daniel Kopp, who is > listed in the Ellis Island record as Adaline's closest relative (uncle)? > > There is a lot of information about the area at > http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/sesidewlcme.html > > Here's an interesting sidenote about the church where my grandparents > were married: Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church (at 91st and > Burley/Superior). In 1946 it was purchased by a baptist congregation, > and was the location of a famous gospel music scene from the original > Blues Brothers movie. (http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/setourp17.htm) > > Susan Radtke Eipert > seipert2 at gmail.com > > > > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Sun Dec 28 19:16:14 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:16:14 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Help needed In-Reply-To: <49582AA9.7060107@gmail.com> References: <881591.13380.qm@web57416.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <49582AA9.7060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <796o8r$2nke0o@pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Actually, Kolmar was known as Chodziez, a slight but significant difference to Chodecz. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 06:40 PM 28/12/2008, Sue Eipert wrote: >Hi Cathy, > >Thanks, Cathy, but actually, it was Anna Kopp (not my Radtke ancestors) >that came from the Chodecz area, and Chodecz is in Central Poland, south >of Wloclawek, not in Posen. > >Thanks anyway! > >Sue > >Cathy Walters wrote: > > Hi Sue, I'll just make a coment but lisson to the other too. I belive > > Chodecz is Kolmar that used to be in Posen,Germany Radtke is a very > > comon name from there,where I live in Elgin,MN this family was from > > Kolmar-(Radtke)but none of their family is into genealogy-I had happened > > to worked on Trinity Ev.Luth.Church Centennial book back in 1994& in > > Jankendorf church records,LDS looking for my family.Cathy > > > > */Sue Eipert /* wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I am very interested to hear that your immigrant Adaline Rinas > > immigrated to join a Kopp (Adolf) in Chicago (South Chicago). My > > grandparents (Anna Kopp and Johann Radtke) each immigrated > > separately to > > this area, were married there in 1905, had some sons (including my > > father) and lived there until 1911. The neighborhoods in the > > southeastern corner of Chicago my grandparents lived in are called > > South > > Chicago and Eastside. > > > > My grandmother immigrated to South Chicago in 1902 to join her brother > > Frederick (Fritz) Kopp. Their brother Gustav joined them in 1906. They > > came from Zakrzewek, in the parish of Chodecz in central Poland. I know > > of a few other Germans who immigrated from Poland to this part of > > Chicago. The names include: Kopp, Radtke, Lau, Sommerfeld, Lutke. > > Bleich, Roman, Reichenbach, Damer. I've always been interested in > > learning the circumstances that caused them to move here. The ones I > > know about were mostly single men or women, or traveled here without > > their families, and they worked in the steel mills, boarding houses, or > > breweries in the area. > > > > Do you know anything more about Adolf Kopp, or Daniel Kopp, who is > > listed in the Ellis Island record as Adaline's closest > relative (uncle)? > > > > There is a lot of information about the area at > > http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/sesidewlcme.html > > > > Here's an interesting sidenote about the church where my grandparents > > were married: Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church (at 91st and > > Burley/Superior). In 1946 it was purchased by a baptist congregation, > > and was the location of a famous gospel music scene from the original > > Blues Brothers movie. (http://www.neiu.edu/~reseller/setourp17.htm) > > > > Susan Radtke Eipert > > seipert2 at gmail.com > > > > > > > > hhowell wrote: > > > Hi > > > Could someone read an Ellis Island record for me. I have been > > trying to determine the spelling of two village names in the record. > > The record is on 2 pages, the first page shown and the previous page. > > > > > > The record is for Adaline Rinas age 19 immigrated in 1912. > > > > > > Adaline's last place of residence is listed as Scoiniar, Russia. > > I am not sure if the record is as listed. > > > > > > Her birth place on the previous page is listed as Dobrrychow. > > > > > > I cannot locate a place like Scoiniar in Poland (Russia). > > > > > > There are several similar names for Dobrrychow. I am reasonably > > sure the two villages are near each other. > > > > > > Adaline Rinas's last residence was with a Kopp. She was going to > > Adolf Kopp, Chicago. Do the names sound familiar to anyone? Family > > story is that she was an orphan. > > > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > > Herschuel Howell > > > > > > > From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 08:08:14 2008 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:08:14 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Just for curiosity References: <4949778C.8040302@warnerengineering.com> Message-ID: <023e01c969cf$b26092b0$0401010a@Eduardo> Hello, I just got in my hands the passanger list of the ship that my family came to Brazil. Curious is that the only german family approach was mine. I could check there were italians, palestinians, greeks, swiss. Am I right if I think that sometimes families did not travel in groups on the way to Americas? Thanks, Eduardo Kommers From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 08:48:28 2008 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:48:28 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Kaliningrad Oblast References: Message-ID: <029301c969d5$4b3c3fc0$0401010a@Eduardo> Has anyone worked on records from Kalinigrad Oblast (Ostpreussen)? Thanks Eduardo From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Dec 29 08:54:22 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:54:22 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Just for curiosity In-Reply-To: <023e01c969cf$b26092b0$0401010a@Eduardo> References: <4949778C.8040302@warnerengineering.com> <023e01c969cf$b26092b0$0401010a@Eduardo> Message-ID: <79p70j$1a8nap@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Eduardo, I would say that in most cases that I have looked at for North America, at least two or more families would be travelling together. However, there are enough single families or even single persons travelling that I do not consider it unusual to find them that way. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca At 09:08 AM 29/12/2008, Eduardo Kommers wrote: >Hello, > >I just got in my hands the passanger list of the ship that my family came to >Brazil. Curious is that the only german family approach was mine. I could >check there were italians, palestinians, greeks, swiss. >Am I right if I think that sometimes families did not travel in groups on >the way to Americas? > >Thanks, >Eduardo Kommers > From FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca Mon Dec 29 09:33:56 2008 From: FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca (Jerry Frank) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:33:56 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil Message-ID: <79p70j$1a93m0@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> This is a request for translation assistance but please read through this before you automatically delete it. I have an 8 page history of the migration of German Volhynians to Brazil written in Portuguese. We would like to have it translated into English. This may not be a huge project for someone who at least has some background in both languages. I tested some paragraphs in GOOGLE Translator and the English version comes out quite well, though certainly far from perfect. The English would need to be cleaned up and checked for context problems. For example, the sentence: "A prov?ncia teve suas divisas alteradas ao longo dos s?culos." is translated as: "The province had its foreign currency changed over the centuries." In English we might think this is reference to money but, in context, it is referring to political control over Volhynia. So such inconsistencies have to be spotted and corrected. There is no time limit for this project but it would be nice to have it back within a few months. If you can help, please let us know and I will send the Word document to you. Thank you. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 10:06:03 2008 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:06:03 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil References: <79p70j$1a93m0@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <02c901c969e0$212ba8f0$0401010a@Eduardo> Of course Jerry! I can help. Those parts I already translated some time ago are in stand by? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Frank" To: Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil This is a request for translation assistance but please read through this before you automatically delete it. I have an 8 page history of the migration of German Volhynians to Brazil written in Portuguese. We would like to have it translated into English. This may not be a huge project for someone who at least has some background in both languages. I tested some paragraphs in GOOGLE Translator and the English version comes out quite well, though certainly far from perfect. The English would need to be cleaned up and checked for context problems. For example, the sentence: "A prov?ncia teve suas divisas alteradas ao longo dos s?culos." is translated as: "The province had its foreign currency changed over the centuries." In English we might think this is reference to money but, in context, it is referring to political control over Volhynia. So such inconsistencies have to be spotted and corrected. There is no time limit for this project but it would be nice to have it back within a few months. If you can help, please let us know and I will send the Word document to you. Thank you. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From mschmie at prodigy.net Mon Dec 29 13:41:39 2008 From: mschmie at prodigy.net (MSchmied) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:41:39 +0000 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] G-P Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Attn Earl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <122920082141.25506.49594411000C5817000063A222216128369B0A02D29709070B019D9FBF0A0703080C9C03@att.net> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:44:05 -0600 From: "Earl.Schultz" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas in St. Joseph, MI To: Marge, thank you for bringing that website to my attention. I was surprised to find my family (Leichnitz and Kleps, two very rare names) in their database, collected apparently about 1991, but with no mention of the source or credit given. These families have no connection to Michigan or Michiana so I am wondering how the information was collected. I don't mind but to make the information useful, the source should be provided. Earl Hi Earl, Just a little info re: N. Cramer's database: "Mr. Cramer?s genealogy credentials are lengthy and respected. He is a Professional Genealogist, was President of the Berrien County Genealogical Association, and was an editor and publisher of several books related to Berrien County, Michigan, genealogical records. He worked extensively with early computerization of vital records of the area, creating ?Michiana Genealogical Index? a computerized index of birth, death, marriage, cemetery, license, divorce and ancestor files" He does state sources (See my example below). My search was on the surname Wagner; the two examples shown below were found in the Berrien County Natural. records and in a local newspaper dated July 12, 1988. This is to be used as an index to help you locate possible records, etc. available in Berrien County, MI. I hope you can find something useful. I could not find either of the the surnames (Kleps or Leichnitz) in Mr. Cramer's database....what section did you search..Surname, ancestors, etc. I would be glad to help you find the source. Marge in MI Michiana Genealogical Index http://www.sbags.org/michgenidx.htm Courtesy of Norbert Cramer Surname: wagner Database: Birth, Cemetery, Death, Divorce, License, Marriage 1472 Records found Search again Note: Date = Yr, Month, Date SurnameGiven NameAKADatabaseSourceSource Date BansenEmilWagnerBirthNaturalization Records, Berrien Co., Michigan BarrierBetty L.WagnerDeathBenton Harbor or the St. Joseph, MI newspapers.19880712 From marciaradis at msn.com Tue Dec 30 10:32:29 2008 From: marciaradis at msn.com (Marcia Oliveira) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:32:29 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translation help!! Message-ID: Hello everybody, I have an old letter that somebody in my family wrote from Brasil to Germany but, I can't read that because I don't kown german. I would like to ask if someone could help me with this mysterious letter translation?!! I'll appreciate your help, Researching: Radis, Radies, Von Zeidler, Dalhke, JantzMarcia Radis From farose at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 14:02:38 2008 From: farose at gmail.com (F&RM Haddad) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:02:38 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gerhard Sell Message-ID: I have a "mystery relative" by the name of Gerhard Sell. He would be a great-uncle of mine. Background: My grandmother, Olga Sell, was the middle of 3 children. Her younger brother died young; her older brother (born before 1885 in Volhynia) Rinehard, married and lived in Kremianke. (his name in on the 1915 deportation lists) He and his wife had a son, Gerhard. Rinehard died as a young man; his wife remarried - I don't know her name nor the name of the man she married, except that I believe he was a widower. Rinehard's widow also died young, and Gerhard was brought up in his step-father's home. This is all family lore. Family lore also has it that Gerhard later emigrated to Canada - specifically southern Alberta. I've not found any record of him through the Pier One records, nor in any census that I have found. Could you please advise me (privately is fine) where to look for any possible information on him. There is a town near Calgary that has a lot of "Sell's" in it. But it also seems strange that if he lived in Southern Alberta, and Olga Sell, my grandmother, lived in Edmonton Alberta, that there was evidently no contact between them. I would still like to find out about him and any of his descendants - as would my aunts and uncles who would be his cousins. Is a puzzlement. Rose-Marie Haddad From daveobee at shaw.ca Tue Dec 30 14:46:39 2008 From: daveobee at shaw.ca (Dave Obee) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:46:39 -0800 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gerhard Sell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you have a time frame for his likely arrival in Canada? What are the Pier One records? Have you looked in EWZ to fill in some of the gaps? Do these Sells tie in to the Sells in the Solodyri area, a few villages to the east of Kremjanka? Dave Obee ----- Original Message ----- From: F&RM Haddad Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 14:05 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gerhard Sell To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org > I have a "mystery relative" by the name of Gerhard Sell. He > would be a > great-uncle of mine. > > Background: My grandmother, Olga Sell, was the middle of 3 > children. Her > younger brother died young; her older brother (born before 1885 > in Volhynia) > Rinehard, married and lived in Kremianke. (his name in on the 1915 > deportation lists) He and his wife had a son, Gerhard. Rinehard > died as a > young man; his wife remarried - I don't know her name nor the > name of the > man she married, except that I believe he was a widower. > Rinehard's widow > also died young, and Gerhard was brought up in his step-father's > home. This > is all family lore. > > Family lore also has it that Gerhard later emigrated to Canada - > specifically southern Alberta. I've not found any record of him > through the > Pier One records, nor in any census that I have found. Could you > pleaseadvise me (privately is fine) where to look for any > possible information on > him. There is a town near Calgary that has a lot of "Sell's" in > it. But it > also seems strange that if he lived in Southern Alberta, and > Olga Sell, my > grandmother, lived in Edmonton Alberta, that there was evidently > no contact > between them. I would still like to find out about him and any > of his > descendants - as would my aunts and uncles who would be his cousins. > > Is a puzzlement. > > Rose-Marie Haddad > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From Nks883 at aol.com Tue Dec 30 16:17:15 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:17:15 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translation help!! Message-ID: To all SGGEE members...I am also searching for relatives who settled in Brazil. The surname is Schindel, but they used Schendel as the spelling of the last name. Samuel Schindel died in the mid 1950's in the San Paolo - Santa Catarina area. He did leave a wife (Pauline) and at least one daughter and one son. I have searched through some Lutheran church records for the area, but found nothing. This Schindel/Schendel family were located in Volhynia, but had ties to the Lublin area also. Would love to find my family in Brazil. Nadine **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) From Nks883 at aol.com Tue Dec 30 16:20:34 2008 From: Nks883 at aol.com (Nks883@aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:20:34 EST Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Gerhard Sell Message-ID: Regarding this reference to Solodryi - one of my ancestral branches came from this area. Surname is Scheske. Does anyone have any Scheske ancestors from Solodryi? Nadine **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) From ra_stein at telus.net Tue Dec 30 16:48:08 2008 From: ra_stein at telus.net (Richard Stein) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:48:08 -0700 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translation help!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36754A37DE334427A7DF04AE8FBB2506@RichardPC> Nadine, There is the birth of a Samuel Schendel in Volhynia from the St. Petersburg Archive records - maybe it is yours. Schendel, Samuel, born 27-Dec 1866 Berecke, parents Schendel, Gottlieb and Hennig, Louise, microfilm 1884065/2, page 515, registration 476 The name in their marriage record was Schindler. Schindler, Gottlieb ?Jun 1869 Rozyszcze Hennig, Louise 1884110/1 331 30 Maybe this is the same Gottlieb Schindler. Schindler, Gottlieb 22 Sep 1879 Rozyszcze Schubert, Juliane 1895627/2 722 216 Hope this helps. Dick Stein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translation help!! > > To all SGGEE members...I am also searching for relatives who settled in > Brazil. The surname is Schindel, but they used Schendel as the spelling > of the > last name. Samuel Schindel died in the mid 1950's in the San Paolo - > Santa > Catarina area. He did leave a wife (Pauline) and at least one daughter > and one > son. I have searched through some Lutheran church records for the area, > but > found nothing. This Schindel/Schendel family were located in Volhynia, > but > had ties to the Lublin area also. Would love to find my family in > Brazil. > Nadine > > **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Tue Dec 30 17:47:11 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (joepessarra) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:47:11 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Brazil/Schendel/Schindel, was Translation help!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901c96ae9$b2e66e60$18b34b20$@net> -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Nks883 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:17 PM To: marciaradis at msn.com; ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Translation help!! To all SGGEE members...I am also searching for relatives who settled in Brazil. The surname is Schindel, but they used Schendel as the spelling of the last name. Samuel Schindel died in the mid 1950's in the San Paolo - Santa Catarina area. He did leave a wife (Pauline) and at least one daughter and one son. I have searched through some Lutheran church records for the area, but found nothing. This Schindel/Schendel family were located in Volhynia, but had ties to the Lublin area also. Would love to find my family in Brazil. Nadine ======================================================================= Brazil residential white pages phone directory at http://www.listaonline.com.br/pagamanet/web/telefonesResidenciais.aspx?ipa=1 6&idi=3&ies= finds no Schendel listings. There is one Schindel listing, and numerous Schenkel listings. ANTONIO DUARTE SCHINDEL RUA DOUTOR SALVADOR FRANCA 1253 - JD BOTANICO PORTO ALEGRE - Rio Grande do Sul Telefone : (51) 3339-6452 Maybe a distant cousin to write for family information. Good luck. Joe in Texas From Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net Tue Dec 30 21:34:42 2008 From: Earl.Schultz at telusplanet.net (Earl.Schultz) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:34:42 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] G-P Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Attn Earl (MSchmied) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8883AE6D8F264AFE85BB66012A9AAD44@Desktop> Just to close the loop on this for readers, I have communicated off-line with both Marge and the "owners" of the Michiana Genealogical Index http://www.sbags.org/michgenidx.htm. My names (my grandparents and other names) were in the MGI Ancestral Database. The source is myself in 1991 although I have no recollection of Mr. Cramer or any communication with Michigan almost 18 years ago and have no ancestral ties to Michigan. Somehow and for some reason I provided that information and it ended up in that database. However, I was informed that they do not provide the Source if the Source is still living and that is why no sources are given for the information in the Ancestral Database. I have questioned that policy for obvious reasons - a dead Source cannot help a genealogist. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:41:39 +0000 From: "MSchmied" Subject: Re: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] G-P Volhynia Digest, Vol 67, Attn Earl To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Message-ID: <122920082141.25506.49594411000C5817000063A222216128369B0A02D29709070B019D9F BF0A0703080C9C03 at att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:44:05 -0600 From: "Earl.Schultz" Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Rinas in St. Joseph, MI To: Marge, thank you for bringing that website to my attention. I was surprised to find my family (Leichnitz and Kleps, two very rare names) in their database, collected apparently about 1991, but with no mention of the source or credit given. These families have no connection to Michigan or Michiana so I am wondering how the information was collected. I don't mind but to make the information useful, the source should be provided. Earl Hi Earl, Just a little info re: N. Cramer's database: "Mr. Cramer?s genealogy credentials are lengthy and respected. He is a Professional Genealogist, was President of the Berrien County Genealogical Association, and was an editor and publisher of several books related to Berrien County, Michigan, genealogical records. He worked extensively with early computerization of vital records of the area, creating ?Michiana Genealogical Index? a computerized index of birth, death, marriage, cemetery, license, divorce and ancestor files" He does state sources (See my example below). My search was on the surname Wagner; the two examples shown below were found in the Berrien County Natural. records and in a local newspaper dated July 12, 1988. This is to be used as an index to help you locate possible records, etc. available in Berrien County, MI. I hope you can find something useful. I could not find either of the the surnames (Kleps or Leichnitz) in Mr. Cramer's database....what section did you search..Surname, ancestors, etc. I would be glad to help you find the source. Marge in MI Michiana Genealogical Index http://www.sbags.org/michgenidx.htm Courtesy of Norbert Cramer Surname: wagner Database: Birth, Cemetery, Death, Divorce, License, Marriage 1472 Records found Search again Note: Date = Yr, Month, Date SurnameGiven NameAKADatabaseSourceSource Date BansenEmilWagnerBirthNaturalization Records, Berrien Co., Michigan BarrierBetty L.WagnerDeathBenton Harbor or the St. Joseph, MI newspapers.19880712 From eduardo.kommers at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 03:18:44 2008 From: eduardo.kommers at gmail.com (Eduardo Kommers) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:18:44 -0200 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sao Paulo - Brazil References: <000901c96ae9$b2e66e60$18b34b20$@net> Message-ID: <001f01c96b39$8d620910$0401010a@Eduardo> This is a link that provides arrival records of imigrants in the Sao Paulo state, Brazil. http://www.memorialdoimigrante.sp.gov.br/ You just need to fill de box "SOBRENOME" and click on "BUSCAR". Also try different spelling. If you find someone you are looking for you can also ask for a certificate where shows many other info. Brazil had basically two big places where the imigrants got in. Another one was in Rio de Janeiro state, the place is called Ilha das Flores (Flowers Island). Let me now if you need help. Thanks Eduardo From joepessarra at suddenlink.net Wed Dec 31 10:36:04 2008 From: joepessarra at suddenlink.net (Joseph Pessarra) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:36:04 -0600 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sao Paulo - Brazil In-Reply-To: <001f01c96b39$8d620910$0401010a@Eduardo> References: <000901c96ae9$b2e66e60$18b34b20$@net> <001f01c96b39$8d620910$0401010a@Eduardo> Message-ID: <000b01c96b76$a3aa4dd0$eafee970$@net> Thank you Eduardo. Found a Pessara immigrant to Brazil on this site. First one that I have found connected to Italy instead of Germany where my Pessarra family originated. Will have to see if I can translate the Portuguese and figure out how to get a copy of the certificate. Is there a charge involved? Joe in Texas -----Original Message----- From: ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org [mailto:ger-poland-volhynia-bounces at eclipse.sggee.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo Kommers Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:19 AM To: ger-poland-volhynia at eclipse.sggee.org Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Sao Paulo - Brazil This is a link that provides arrival records of imigrants in the Sao Paulo state, Brazil. http://www.memorialdoimigrante.sp.gov.br/ You just need to fill de box "SOBRENOME" and click on "BUSCAR". Also try different spelling. If you find someone you are looking for you can also ask for a certificate where shows many other info. Brazil had basically two big places where the imigrants got in. Another one was in Rio de Janeiro state, the place is called Ilha das Flores (Flowers Island). Let me now if you need help. Thanks Eduardo _______________________________________________ Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv From mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 21:49:41 2008 From: mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com (Mauricio Norenberg) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:49:41 +1300 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Volhynian Germans in Brazil In-Reply-To: <79p70j$1a93m0@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> References: <79p70j$1a93m0@pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> Message-ID: <67e3c660812312149q3697ba63j61721533b97251f7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Well, I have a good research about Volhynians on Brazil. I'm very curious about this stuff. I have a extensive documentation about my grandparents who migrated in 1908 to South Brazil. I can translate the Portuguese documentation I have, it's about the first Volhynian parish in Ijui village. And I can do a translation for you if you need. Please let me know about this stuff. Best Regards, Mauricio Norenberg 2008/12/30 Jerry Frank > This is a request for translation assistance but > please read through this before you automatically delete it. > > I have an 8 page history of the migration of > German Volhynians to Brazil written in > Portuguese. We would like to have it translated > into English. This may not be a huge project for > someone who at least has some background in both languages. > > I tested some paragraphs in GOOGLE Translator and > the English version comes out quite well, though > certainly far from perfect. The English would > need to be cleaned up and checked for context > problems. For example, the sentence: > > "A prov?ncia teve suas divisas alteradas ao longo dos s?culos." > > is translated as: > > "The province had its foreign currency changed over the centuries." > > In English we might think this is reference to > money but, in context, it is referring to > political control over Volhynia. So such > inconsistencies have to be spotted and corrected. > > There is no time limit for this project but it > would be nice to have it back within a few months. > > If you can help, please let us know and I will send the Word document to > you. > > Thank you. > > > > Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta > FranklySpeaking at shaw.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ger-Poland-Volhynia Mailing List hosted by > Society for German Genealogy in Eastern Europe http://www.sggee.org > Mailing list info at http://www.sggee.org/listserv > From mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 22:10:43 2008 From: mauricio.norenberg at gmail.com (Mauricio Norenberg) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 19:10:43 +1300 Subject: [Ger-Poland-Volhynia] Possible project: Volhynians in Brazil Message-ID: <67e3c660812312210h1d0fc09fx239c7a9a73279404@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm interested to start a project regarding the Volhynians who came to Brazil. When I started my personal research over my family who came from Volhynia, I found lack of information on Brazil. But with research time, I found a lot of information on microfilms as well. And I have a lot of parish registers that are no longer microfilmed. Now I'm living in Auckland, and I have access to a good Library, that makes easier to do research. Basically would be cataloging all the families who arrived from Volhynia, usually identified by the Brazilian settlements they arrived. Curiously, the majority Volhynians went to specifics settlements reserved for German-Russians. That's what happened on "Linha Silva Jardim" settlement. I think had a specific Brazilian dealer that went to Volhynian to advertise about Brazil. And I'm very curious how my ancestors decided Brazil against Canada. I have relatives who went to Canada. Could have a register about the propaganda made in Volhynia. Does somebody have information about this? So, I'm looking forward for opinions about how can I make this catalog and contribute with this community along the next year. Regards and happy new year! Mauricio Norenberg